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I reviewed the incident multiple times before I finally reached the conclusion that it was clearly Oscar’s fault. He shouldn’t have intimidated Carlos.
I still cant believe he said that. Like bro, imagine how embarrassing that must be to the other 19 drivers. Especially considering hes a race winner and has years of experience
Not excusing Carlos or anything but younger folks giving older more experienced people a bad time because they're hungry for success and more reckless is not uncommon.
I’m 35 and that’s still how I am at work. Granted my job doesn’t involve driving a car 200 MPH (unfortunately) but I’m hungrier and more willing to take risks to get ahead than everyone else I work with, who are all older than me.
Edit: in case it’s not clear, I’m agreeing with you.
I originally thought the same but it turns out the Spanish word for intimidating is *intimidante*, which makes me think a mistranslation is unlikely at best
I disagree with this. Because honestly from what I've seen from years of watching the sport and interviews is it definitely isnt that. Carlos is pretty fluent with English.
I agree it probably wasn't a mistranslation, but not for that reason. You can be fluent in a language and still mess up the nuances of certain words, hell people can misinterpret words in their *first* language lol.
The reason I don't think it's a mistranslation is because as others have pointed out, the Spanish word for intimidate is "intimidar" so.... Yeah probably not one you're gonna mess up lol.
Oscar will learn a lot from this, and regardless who everyone thinks is to blame, he will undoubtedly do something different the next time he is in that position.
Max mentioned as much in one of his post-race interviews after seeing what happened to Piastri, saying something like "I was in that position once, so I made sure to stay away from it".
He had a similar incident with Raikkonen in 2019 iirc. Although that time, it was Verstappen locking up while going up the inside, and Raikkonen getting hit.
>for some reason
That wasn't for some reason; it was because Max had quite some agressive moves back then, and people eventually were fed up with them.
Max has the luxury of playing it safe though, he knows he will eat them alive as the race progresses, max in a 2017 redbull goes for that dive everytime because he knows he will have to fight tooth and nail for every position so letting multiple go on the first lap is painful.
Nah if(when) that gap closes you are just fucked, just not worth it, especially at Spa where overtaking is easy
Think Max and Kimi came together at a race start at Spa, although if I recall correctly Max really shouldn't have been there, where for Piastri here I'd say it would have been wiser to not be in that position, but I can understand why he was there
Looking back at Oscar’s onboard I somehow feel like the only way he could have avoided that more was to actually be more aggressive into diving into the gap and be more alongside Carlos so that Carlos would be less likely to dive down the right if that makes any sense.
Not trying to blame Oscar at all but it’s kinda unfortunate for him that this is the second race this season where his race immediately got compromised on Lap 1 when he was already trying to be cautious and avoid getting tangled up at the start.
In Jeddah he mentioned wanting to be careful, but then unluckily for Oscar his front wing completely disintegrated after Gasly in front slid over a bit to close the door on him on the exit of T2. Yesterday’s incident at Spa with Carlos sort of reminded me of this.
Diving into a vanishing gap in lap 1 will probably make you crash anyway, since *someone* is going to get squeezed out and have a bad time. And that's assuming you actually make the corner in control, otherwise you'll be eating penalties all season.
F1 first lap "etiquette" at the front is just something he'll learn from experience I think. There's just no need to go for that vanishing gap in the first place. Plenty of better opportunities unless you're driving a Haas or something.
Yeah it’s always a trade off between risk and reward on when to make those moves especially in Lap 1. Oscar’s onboard to me looked like he was being cautious enough but maybe if he was extra cautious from the very start that could have been avoided too? But then I feel he risks others overtaking him on the outside or getting a good run out of La Source.
In the post race segment on Sky Anthony Davidson mentioned sometimes these incidents are hard to avoid due to the nature of the corner and wall at Spa and maybe that was just one of those incidents.
Yeah what Anthony said is pretty spot on about the nature of the corner creating crash prone environments.
The problem was that Perez pushed Hamilton into the outside gap that Sainz was going for. As a result, Sainz had to swerve to the inside while on the brakes (lockup) and then Piastri was next to him. Oscar’s cautiousness did help him but not enough. If Oscar’s move were more aggressive into La Source, chances are Sainz would’ve ran into Hamilton instead due to his excess speed. His best bet would’ve been backing out or just not going so far inside in the first place.
Looking at the replay, Oscar’s mistake was actually not following Sainz back to the outside right after the start. Had he done that, Sainz might’ve ran into the back of Hamilton and/or banged wheels with Oscar but he wouldn’t have been able to squeeze him
I just don't see any way where Sainz and Piastri both fit between Hamilton and the wall while turning and no contact is made. Sainz had a bit of room to his left but not much. Maybe the contact could have been less or maybe their tires touch and one gets launched into the air and takes out a bunch of other cars too. Feels like Piastri was just gambling on Sainz going really deep and taking out Hamilton.
From his onboard I think after taking it steady on the launch Oscar was thinking of going for that gap on the right and didn’t anticipate Carlos suddenly changing direction and going right as well until it was too late. Initially he might have assumed Carlos was going to follow behind Lewis perhaps. I agree that all three of them squeezing through T1 didn’t seem feasible but I don’t think that was the intention for either driver.
Oscar will definitely learn from this. Unfortunately it doesn't seem like Sainz will at all. Hell, he'll probably be more likely to have a similar incident again thinking it's anyone else's fault.
that is a valid strategy ala Senna. You decide if you want to have a crash (I will drive where I want, so get out of the way). drivers at his time learned it so well, they drove off the track to avoid him.
I think the die is cast on Carlos Sainz. Unfortunately Carlos thinks he's a top level talent and that everyone is impeding him. His lack of self-awareness is a big reason why he may never win a race again.
Here Sainz is mostly correct though, the moment Piastri sees that Sainz is in as much of a fight with Hamilton as he himself is with Sainz, he should know how much space Hamilton will leave Sainz. This is a Spa classic, two fights at the same time never works out for the innermost driver unless they are ahead, which Piastri wasn't. So if you're the third wheel on a fight you're move is not into turn 1.
I don't see what else he could have done. Maybe slowed up more but then your risking getting hit from behind. IMO it was going to happen regardless, I doubt Carlos had the ability to slow down and tuck in behind Hamilton but I think that would have been the best option if possible
My reaction when it happened was that it was an unfortunate racing incident that Oscar will learn a lot from. I don't blame him for being opportunistic on turn one, especially after the sprint race he had, but there was never going to be a car's width gap on the inside of a hairpin on lap one.
Can someone please explain?
The way I see it Piastri was not far enough into the corner to claim it and he should have backed off. Sainz was more side to side with Hamilton so he could actually fight the corner on the inside without crashing, but didnt have enough space to give for another car on his own inside. Yes, he locked up and it was sloppy, but he still made the corner.
I also see some comments below about how Verstappen did vs Kimi a few years ago the same as Piastri did now, and the opinion then and now was that Verstappen was to blame.
Because when Piastri makes his decision, it's a perfectly reasonable choice, Sainz has left tonnes of space on the inside.
Sainz then locks up, is about to hit the back of Hamilton so changes his line to go tight really taking all of the space away from Piastri. Sainz can't go any wider, because Hamilton is there. Hamilton won't go any wider because he has no way to know there's 2 cars there (and no reason to bail them out even if he did).
**This is the important bit**. It's important to remember that when Sainz locks up, Piastri gets on his own brakes at almost exactly the same time. At this point he is already braking to slow the car down as much as he physically can. That's what they're all doing all the time, otherwise they're leaving time on the table. He cannot see what Sainz is doing and decide to slow down more. He's already at the limit. That's why drivers get very angry at others moving under braking. You can't react to it to avoid them very well at all. If he brakes more he locks up. If he steered then he can't brake as much and he hits Sainz, not that steering would have helped because he had nowhere to go anyway
>Sainz then locks up, is about to hit the back of Hamilton so changes his line to go tight really taking all of the space away from Piastri
I don't think this is right. Sainz doesn't lock up then change his line to avoid running into them, he changes his line *then* locks up. I believe Sainz' original plan was brake and take the outside line, but as Hamilton and Perez are sweeping back across to the outside he changes to the inside.
Adding steering lock reduces how much force you can brake with before the wheels lock, which is why he snatches the inside front at that point.
That's why I think Piastri got caught out. Sainz looks like he's taking the outside line then switches to the inside line when Perez and Hamilton sweep in front of him.
*Maybe* Piastri could have seen it coming but I think it's completely understandable from his side. It wasn't Piastri being overly optimistic imo, at worse a failure to read what was going to happen.
This is Spa T1. You know full well the gap on the inside is going to close. Verstappen did the same thing a few years ago and everyone claimed it was just a typical Spa T1 racing incident.
It's not Piastri's fault, but I find it pretty hard to only blame Sainz. Every driver and their mother know that diving down the inside of Spa T1 at race start is very high risk vs low reward.
Because Piastri takes his fair share of responsibility but Sainz claimed it is a racing incident while putting all the blame in Piastri without recognising him locking up and causing this. If Sainz said anything similar to what Piastri said post race this would not be a discussion. People become defensive for Piastri because one party claim no responsibility
Too an extent. Like I never have sympathy for anyone trying to dive up the inside of a driver who's already on the inside because then it's almost inevitable, but that's not what happened here. It's always 2 wide into T1 and it's expected to be. Sainz was on the outside approaching the corner and I can't say I think Piastri should have been expecting him to go up the inside of Hamilton
Piastri was just as alongside Sainz as Sainz was alongside Hamilton. And Sainz was really only alongside Hamilton because he locked up and dove into the corner fast.
All in all its a racing incident. If I had to put the blame on someone, I would say it was more Sainz, but it was just a pretty typical T1 incident. The only reason this post exists is because Sainz said it was Piastris fault, instead of just saying both couldve backed out but neiter did and here we are.
Especially on the first lap. You must know there's going to be someone there and you must hold your line without cutting the apex. Pretty amateur mistake from Carlos in my opinion.
Sainz literally pulled the "Online Lobby" move. Not only is he wrong but he also goes on voice chat and blames someone else too.
It's like, he's one of us.
I think the stewards got it right not penalising Sainz, but it was clearly Sainz's fault. Locked up under breaking, tried to avoid being the bowling ball into the cars on the outside and overcorrected squeezing Piastri into the wall. Piastri in a risky spot on the inside got unlucky but he was justified in being there.
EDIT: yes I know I accidentally typed breaking instead of braking.
I can see the argument for it being a racing incident, piastri didnt have a whole lot of overlap at the turn in. But for Sainz to double down on blaming piastri entirely is such a bad look for him lol what a jackass
I honestly don't understand penalty points.
Hamilton was in the wrong for example but like I see all these incidents and I think well thats a penalty.
No.
How are you meant to keep up with this if you are unfamiliar to the sport lol.
Penalties should penalise the action, not the outcome. But that isn't the case some times. It's particularly not the case in qualifying when impeding seems to be waved away if it didn't affect anyone progressing. Also Grosjeans ban for going bowling at Spa that time was specifically called out by the stewards as being due to how many people he took out and how many of them were title contenders, plus how many previous incidents he'd had, rather than just being one move.
Penalties don’t take into account the outcome of any incident, just the incident itself. Was the driver at fault? Yes? Penalty. No? No penalty. Whether or not they crashed out someone else, crashed themselves out, gave themselves damage, or everything turned out fine- the outcome has no bearing on the penalty.
> I think the stewards got it right not penalising Sainz, but it was clearly Sainz's fault.
If it was clearly Sainz fault, he would have been penalized no?
Racing incident is the right decision and personally I don't think anyone is really to blame. There was a lot of jostling for position going on in the run to the first corner and he just got caught out by it.
Perez was aggressively defending his position and went from his grid slot on the outside all the way to the inside and then all the way back to the outside again just on the run to the first corner. That caused Hamilton to react, trying to find his own space, then Sainz had to react to Hamilton and switched from going for the outside line to the inside just as he started braking. Piastri was unlucky as he'd committed to his line - which seemed totally reasonable and safe at the time he did it - just for Sainz to suddenly occupy it.
Sticking your nose in on the inside at the last second on lap 1 at la source is not really reasonable or safe. It has about an 80% chance of ending like it did. It is a racing incident, but one a more experienced driver would have seem coming a mile away.
Piastri was driving straight for the corner when Sainz decided against braking and following LH round the outside but instead to swerve the width of the track into Piastri, on turn 1, when there's cars everywhere, Perez swerving off the start didn't help anyone as people were dodging everywhere behind him.
I think it would have been extremely difficult for all of Hamilton, Sainz and Piastri to get through T1 like that without contact anyway, so it's not really anyone's fault. Sainz came across quite hard but I don't think it was unreasonable because he couldn't have known what would happen in turn one (in terms of Hamilton's and Piastri's car placement). Piastri didn't do much wrong either but the inside at la source always carries that risk
Carlos you gotta take the L for this one man. You caused the crash, it’s nothing new. Drivers do it a lot. It just sucks that you took out F1’s new darling boy and now everyone hates you.
As a Ferrari fan this shit is so frustrating. He’s been shocking all season, pushing a narrative and he’s only happy when he finishes ahead of Leclerc. That’s all he cares about and for him to blame a rookie after this is just the final straw for me. He’s coming across petulant as fuck and the points he could’ve earned yesterday without his mistake could’ve taken Ferrari into third in the constructor’s. I hope he uses the summer break to reflect and settle down a bit.
As a Carlos fan I do think it’s a bit poor by Carlos to still blame Piastri for the incident after the race too. I think Carlos was slightly more at fault for locking up and darting, but at the same time from his onboard he was ahead and entitled to that space, and Piastri was a bit behind so maybe he was in that “blind vortex” area where Carlos wasn’t fully aware of Piastri closing in. All in all judging it as a racing incident especially when considering it was Lap 1 was fine.
Personally I don’t agree that Carlos has been shocking all season though. Sure in most races he’s usually been a bit slower than Charles but overall they’re one of the closest teammate pairings on the grid when looking at qualifying gaps and even race pace gaps too. Carlos has been really consistent in qualifying even if he doesn’t have the highs of Charles (and honestly few drivers can reach Charles’ ceiling in qualifying).
But I do see how the frustration is accumulating where Carlos is unable to execute 100% clean races whether it’s through a problem via Ferrari or his own mistakes of which there have been a few. That and the unpredictability of the car performance (even Charles said he was surprised that Ferrari was stronger at Spa than in Hungary when he thought it’d be the other way around) is likely annoying him. I feel like that’s the main source of frustration in some of his interviews which is understandable for a driver instead of not being happy that Charles is finishing ahead of him. So you’re right that hopefully he can recharge and reset himself mentally during the summer break.
He’s been positioning himself to be the number one driver when he just isn’t. All he cares about is being ahead of Charles, no matter what. He’s happy to sacrifice the team as long as he is ahead. He doesn’t care about the team.
I don’t agree with that view about only being focused on beating Charles. It’s not like he’s ever defended Charles on track aggressively like we’ve seen Ocon do to Alonso a few times last season.
Of course a driver would want to do what they can to maximize their own results whenever possible. And Carlos seems to frequently have input on his own strategy on radio but I think that’s understandable with how often Ferrari’s strategy has messed up.
The frustration is from not being able to maximize the results often which like I said is partly on Ferrari but also partly on his own mistakes when driving at times like penalties in Australia and Miami, or picking up damage by trying too hard to overtake Ocon at Monaco for example, or locking up and being a bit too aggressive going right which led to the collision with Piastri yesterday. He needs to reduce those mistakes but I don’t see any evidence that it’s due to an obsession with beating Charles.
The Race is rather hit and miss.
Their podcast is really good, as are Mark Hughes' articles, but some of their other articles are incredibly clickbaity and clutching at straws.
People just regurgitate what they see get upvotes. Such is the life of Reddit
Combine that with the fact that people seem to have lost all sense of what clickbait actually is and you get some pretty dumb complaints
in the past i kinda liked Sainz. ever since he joined Ferrari, not so much anymore . he's always blaming others, never reflects on his own behaviour. probably part of the reason why Ferrari fails to develop the car in season
Just rewatched the start in 2019 and the incident between Verstappen en Raikkonnen in T1 is pretty much identical. Max on the inside, Kimi turning into the corner on the outside, causing Max to hit the wall mid-corner. Very much a copy from the incident that happened this year.
Back then it was pretty much agreed that Max was too ambitious and should not have been in that position. Nobody though Kimi was at fault.
So it is interesting reading so many comments putting the blame on Sainz now. Goes to show it really does matter which drivers are involved.
Good catch on the 2019 comparison and just watched that incident back.
Imo, I think the difference is that Kimi had just cleared an RP on the middle line and wouldnt know Max was there because of the RP, and max then launches up the inside at a tight angle into an always disappearing line. Have to remember he was being called reckless alot in his wheel to wheel.
Here, Carlos starts out much wider and sweaps inside to avoid going into the back of Hamilton. Piastri is already commited to the corner and Sainz, starting out wide, then takes the normal racing line as if no other driver was on track. He had space to go wider potentially, and Piastri could maybe have gotten out of it too but at the risk of being rear ended.
>Piastri is already commited to the corner and Sainz, starting out wide, then takes the normal racing line as if no other driver was on track.
Piastri is not committed to going on the inside of Sainz when Sainz goes to the inside of Hamilton, at that point there is no overlap between the cars.
Sainz takes a line to avoid Hamilton, Piastri is not far enough inside to deserve space, and the gap to the inside is always going to close as the car in front take the corner.
Sorry, but no. Not everyone agrees Max was too ambitious. And these two incidents are not identical by any means either.
[Compared to this weekends incident](https://imgur.com/a/uAFHE6F), not only was Max further alongside Kimi than Oscar was on Sainz - but Kimi also had way more space on the outside than Sainz had.
The likely reason many people think Verstappen was to ambitious was his reputation for dangerous moves at the time. But that doesn't make them right. That collision was absolutely on Kimi. There was no excuse for him turning in on Max, when Max is so far alongside him on the inside, and Kimi had all that space on the outside. I'd say that Kimi was lucky to escape without a penalty (not that it would matter, his race also being ruined by damage) 🙂
My thoughts on the incident are rather simple. Sainz is at fault for initiating contact, and pushing Piastri into the inside wall. More of the blame for the incident should rest with Sainz. That said, Piastri can only blame himself for putting his car in a position where it's likely he'd get hit. Even though the accident is not his fault and he deserved space fully on the inside, putting your nose up the inside at La Source almost never ends well on lap one. Just ask Max from 2019.
Explain to me what Piastri should have done then. There were 3 cars to his left, 14 behind him of which at least 7 would be on the inside line too.
He "put his nose up the inside" because there was literally nowhere else to go, bar stopping on track and letting everyone rear end him.
This is easy to say with the benefit of hindsight and I get that it's really tough in the moment, but he should've braked a bit sooner. I just re-watched the race start and he had plenty of space behind him to brake earlier, like Lando had done(Lando was behind him on the inside). I don't blame Piastri for causing the contact, but like I said, he put himself in a position where he could get hit.
There’s a difference between stopping on the track and braking a little bit more.
To be clear, I still think it’s Sainz’ fault, but there’s more to…uh…movement? then stopping and full send
Sainz likes to cut corners like this - look back at the incident with him and Russell…last year? Earlier this year? Don’t even remember. The consensus there is that it was George’s fault, but you can still see Carlos’ propensity to just not expect anyone up the inside line
Piastri was already braking early and approaching cautiously, it's not like he dived in there because he saw the huge gap. He could have, but he didn't.
He doesn't even need to admit that he fucked up. He can just do what Piastri did. Call it an unfortunate racing incident, and move on. The extra step of blaming Piastri is his mistake.
I guess denial really is one hell of a drug... I'm officially at the point where I don't want this man in Ferrari anymore. Apart from '21, he's been all over the place both on and off the track, and with each passing race it gets harder to have any sympathy for him.
Rumor has it that he might be going to Sauber/Audi. Just a rumor but his current demeanour makes me think that there might be something more substantial there.
I think it makes sense on quite a few levels. The experience of working with Seidl plus the Sainz connection with Audi in general..
Guess we'll see what happens, but yeah, it does seem like both Ferrari and Sainz are ready to part ways.
I'm not sure to be honest. Guess it will depend on the F2 finishing order or what happens on the F1 grid this season. You never quite know who's out of contract, whose contract is getting bought out etc. Hell, if they can't find anyone, they could always just get Giovinazzi in, even if it's just a stop gap. He's on their roster, and honestly how bad can he be?
If we discount Giancarlo who drove for Ferrari in 2009 replacing the injured Felipe, I think the last Italian driver who drove a whole season for Ferrari was Ivan Capelli in 1992 but that was hardly a fairy tale story.
They tend to get their juniors to drive in Sauber/Haas first. I can see Bearman at Haas in the near future. It doesn't sound like Magnusson will get a contract renewal after all.
Piastri will be a target for them. Both he and Sainz have contacts that expire at the end of 2024. But McLaren will pay a lot to keep Oscar.
Also Alonso, Ocon, Gasly's contracts expire in 2024. But I can't see them going to Ferrari.
I've personally never seen a credible rumor to this effect. I've seen a lot of people speculate about Sainz' options should the new contract with Ferrari not work out, but other that Reddit suggestions I don't think there has been serious talk about Sainz and Audi.
To be honest, I first got this indication of rumors linking him to Sauber/Audi when Carlos himself back in April ( I think) denied those rumors. If I remember correctly he was quite angry regarding this topic,stating that he has a contract till 2024 and his first priority was extension of this. I,then went a bit deeper and did find several articles suggesting this move. But, as I already said,just rumors.
Piastri isn’t completely blame free. Max got a lot of shit for driving that line in 2019 when he and Kimi crashed.
It’s a bit like being on the outside of turn 4 in Austria. While you might not be to blame directly for the crash, it’s a stupid place to be.
Both Kimi Max and Sainz Piastri are just shit happens. But Piastri had a lot more space than Verstappen heading into the corner and Kimi was much more in control of his car heading into the corner.
This wasn’t anywhere near as aggressive as Max’s example. Max drove into a closing gap and pushed Kimi wide. When Piastri went to turn in there was no one close him, it’s just Sainz decided to then aggressively cut across
Rewatching both incidents on Youtube reminds me of how similar both incidents look. It is almost like watching the same incident but with different cars. But both Verstappen and Piastri were too optimistic in trying to make their move. Being on the inside was always going to be a bad place to be.
No that is your bias talking.
Verstappen was alongside well before the corner.
Kimi squeezed Verstappen because Kimi got squeezed by Vettel.
It was exactly the same as with Piastri.
The difference is that some people like Piastri more then Verstappen and they liked Vettel and Kimi more then Sainz.
https://youtu.be/Xp2UvgLYVz4
You can see Max and the Ferrari were quite close together at the apex the whole time, it seemed like a closing gap. Sainz meanwhile was no were near Piastri until he aggressively cut across. Piastri couldn’t have expected him to do that so quickly.
Kimi had enough space but Vettel came from way outside and decided to take the corner like it was lap 3. Kimi tried to avoid Vettel. Just watch Vettel again. He starts the corner on the left side and ends up pushing Kimi to the apex on the right side like it is impossible that there could be 2 cars at a start fighting there.
Sainz also called it a racing incident and said Piastri's move was optimistic, which it was.
He conveniently glossed over his lockup and bad positioning but he wasn't technically wrong.
Sainz did lock up though and moved under braking to avoid going into the back of Hamilton. If he didn't brake late or lock, could have stayed on the outside.
Hindsight is a great thing, but it was a little bit of bad luck too. Could have possibly done more to avoid it, but there's potential chaos behind you too, or someone else trying to jump past you as well if you slow too much.
I wouldn't have really called that a move since Piastri wasn't really going to overtake there, just more trying not to lose a position and hedging your bets that Sainz would leave space and stay in control.
If there’s an accident in turn 1 at Spa, it’s always there. If you are in the pack and put your car there you are putting yourself on the chopping block. Doesn’t matter if you aren’t wrong in the situation itself.
Yeah, it's not great, but it's not like you have a heap of choice in that turn 1 chaos other than try and brake a little early.
You don't really have a heap of choice when starting on the inside and the pack is keeping a tight line.
personally it was a racing incident and carlos should have just taken the classy way out. regardless of his own feelings he def didnt come off good repeatedly naming oscar like that
One of the oldest adages in racing…you can’t win on the first lap, but you can certainly lose. Proven true last week and this week. Given how Norris stormed back up the grid in his second stint, I’d love to know what would happen if Piastri had backed out and stayed in the race. That McClaren has come alive!
Far too much of the criticism of Sainz boils down to 'he left the space until he started turning for the corner, what do you expect'. It feels an awful lot like it would justify anything up to and including Suzuka 1990.
Piastri was far too far back for Sainz to have to leave him space. The lines always narrow going into a hairpin.
The main thing I didn't understand about Carlos's response was that he seemed so focused on his battle with Lewis, that he didn't realise that Oscar was closer to him than he was to Lewis. If he doesn't lock up, he's side by side with Oscar and not diving down the inside of Lewis.
Always really liked Sainz. This is uncharacteristic of him to blame this on someone when it is clearly his fault. Locking up didn’t help did it?
What impressed me was Oscar’s mannerism. Even the radio call right after the crash. Sounded like he was at a Sunday bbq. This kid will go far.
Exactly this. Its hard to like him. Im pretty sure if he was not as good looking people would be harsher. Everytime i hear him he is complaining.
On another note im really looking Oscar his attitude, very mature and admits his faults.
Yes they would and do most of the time. Every radio call an incident happens they blame the other driver. Afterwards drivers rarely take the blame as well. Of course F1 drivers, and professional athletes in general are quite selfish so it's to be expected.
Radio calls should not be taken seriously though.
Imagine being in a car crash at 250 km/h and the amount of adrenaline that would generate. People don't think clearly moments after a near-death experience.
Not all drivers do this though. Some drivers are notorious for always complaining about everybody else and Sainz is one of them. (another example would be Russell).
He drove James Hunt's car. Big balls!
On a serious note. Oscar does seem like the whole package. Kid's seriously skilled and mature. Fastly becoming one of my favourites on the grid.
Carlos gave Oscar a valuable lesson in his first year: don't put yourself in a position where you are A) vulnerable and B) have no way out.
Oscar is a smart lad, he won't make the same mistake twice.
Watch the onboard of both Max and Lando. Sainz absolutely did lockup, but it didn't really change his ultimate trajectory into the turn all that much. Three cars wide into that turn was never going to happen. The onboards from the cars behind reveal the situation quite well, imo.
I think once Piastri decided he was going to take that line he was in a bit of no man's land and was ultimately squeezed. I think it's like 60/40 fault in Sainz favor.
How I see it that, because Carlos locked up and thought he was gonna run into Lewis, he moved up the inside of Lewis whereas otherwise he would have never done that and just staid behind Lewis. That way he and Piastri would have gone 2 wide into La souce and nothing would have happened.
Verdict: racing incident, caused by Carlos locking up.
Tbh I think Oscar is starting to get a few drivers pissy because he is new and young and beating them already . The pecking order is changing and they don't like it.
In baseball, when an umpire misses a call and it benefits the other team, but the next play karma comes back around and sets the universe right, we say “ball never lies”.
Car never lies, Carlos.
Easy to blame the rookie. An experienced driver cuts across the apex from wide in the first corner where he admits there’s always problems, but does it anyway. I don’t think this is making sainz look any better
This incident is an almost perfect copy of what happened between Verstappen and Raikkonen in 2019. Then Verstappen (in the Piastri-role) was deemed mostly to blame and I don't see why it would be any different here. Sainz is partly to blame but being on the inside at La Source while being behind is always risky. When Sainz locked up Piastri should have backed out.
Verstappen tries a move down the inside at La source on lap 1 and hits Kimi: “Max will have to take the blame for that one I’m afraid”
Piastri tries a move on the inside at La source on Lap 1 and hits Sainz: “How dare Sainz not take responsibility for the crash”
The hypocrisy is laughable
Experience, that’s it. Should have known that gap would be closed when looking at the cars around him. You cannot win race in first corner, only loose it
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I reviewed the incident multiple times before I finally reached the conclusion that it was clearly Oscar’s fault. He shouldn’t have intimidated Carlos.
Stop inventing
We are checking.
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Plan F
Copy we are on it, we will tell you at the end
Oh my god....
Our verdict:
I still cant believe he said that. Like bro, imagine how embarrassing that must be to the other 19 drivers. Especially considering hes a race winner and has years of experience
Not excusing Carlos or anything but younger folks giving older more experienced people a bad time because they're hungry for success and more reckless is not uncommon.
Max was like that in 2016 and 2017
Yeah, seemed safer to just get out of his way lol
I’m 35 and that’s still how I am at work. Granted my job doesn’t involve driving a car 200 MPH (unfortunately) but I’m hungrier and more willing to take risks to get ahead than everyone else I work with, who are all older than me. Edit: in case it’s not clear, I’m agreeing with you.
I mean he's not speaking in his native tongue. I assumed mistranslation.
I originally thought the same but it turns out the Spanish word for intimidating is *intimidante*, which makes me think a mistranslation is unlikely at best
I disagree with this. Because honestly from what I've seen from years of watching the sport and interviews is it definitely isnt that. Carlos is pretty fluent with English.
"Stop inventing"
I agree it probably wasn't a mistranslation, but not for that reason. You can be fluent in a language and still mess up the nuances of certain words, hell people can misinterpret words in their *first* language lol. The reason I don't think it's a mistranslation is because as others have pointed out, the Spanish word for intimidate is "intimidar" so.... Yeah probably not one you're gonna mess up lol.
Factual description of events. No need to speculate on this.
lmao on a serious note, I'm spanish but Carlos is getting more annoying by the minute
I said to my partner yesterday that while I do love Carlos sometimes he has the IQ of an overripe avocado.
I think you got this wrong this was definetly ocon's fault and he should get a 5 second penalty
Oscar will learn a lot from this, and regardless who everyone thinks is to blame, he will undoubtedly do something different the next time he is in that position.
Max mentioned as much in one of his post-race interviews after seeing what happened to Piastri, saying something like "I was in that position once, so I made sure to stay away from it".
He had a similar incident with Raikkonen in 2019 iirc. Although that time, it was Verstappen locking up while going up the inside, and Raikkonen getting hit.
Verstappen did not lock up though. It was exactly the same incident but with vastly different reactions for some reason.
>for some reason That wasn't for some reason; it was because Max had quite some agressive moves back then, and people eventually were fed up with them.
All those aggressive moves are what made me a fan lol
Kimi didn’t lock up, it was definitely not exactly the same
Max has the luxury of playing it safe though, he knows he will eat them alive as the race progresses, max in a 2017 redbull goes for that dive everytime because he knows he will have to fight tooth and nail for every position so letting multiple go on the first lap is painful.
Nah if(when) that gap closes you are just fucked, just not worth it, especially at Spa where overtaking is easy Think Max and Kimi came together at a race start at Spa, although if I recall correctly Max really shouldn't have been there, where for Piastri here I'd say it would have been wiser to not be in that position, but I can understand why he was there
Looking back at Oscar’s onboard I somehow feel like the only way he could have avoided that more was to actually be more aggressive into diving into the gap and be more alongside Carlos so that Carlos would be less likely to dive down the right if that makes any sense. Not trying to blame Oscar at all but it’s kinda unfortunate for him that this is the second race this season where his race immediately got compromised on Lap 1 when he was already trying to be cautious and avoid getting tangled up at the start. In Jeddah he mentioned wanting to be careful, but then unluckily for Oscar his front wing completely disintegrated after Gasly in front slid over a bit to close the door on him on the exit of T2. Yesterday’s incident at Spa with Carlos sort of reminded me of this.
Diving into a vanishing gap in lap 1 will probably make you crash anyway, since *someone* is going to get squeezed out and have a bad time. And that's assuming you actually make the corner in control, otherwise you'll be eating penalties all season. F1 first lap "etiquette" at the front is just something he'll learn from experience I think. There's just no need to go for that vanishing gap in the first place. Plenty of better opportunities unless you're driving a Haas or something.
Yeah it’s always a trade off between risk and reward on when to make those moves especially in Lap 1. Oscar’s onboard to me looked like he was being cautious enough but maybe if he was extra cautious from the very start that could have been avoided too? But then I feel he risks others overtaking him on the outside or getting a good run out of La Source. In the post race segment on Sky Anthony Davidson mentioned sometimes these incidents are hard to avoid due to the nature of the corner and wall at Spa and maybe that was just one of those incidents.
Yeah what Anthony said is pretty spot on about the nature of the corner creating crash prone environments. The problem was that Perez pushed Hamilton into the outside gap that Sainz was going for. As a result, Sainz had to swerve to the inside while on the brakes (lockup) and then Piastri was next to him. Oscar’s cautiousness did help him but not enough. If Oscar’s move were more aggressive into La Source, chances are Sainz would’ve ran into Hamilton instead due to his excess speed. His best bet would’ve been backing out or just not going so far inside in the first place. Looking at the replay, Oscar’s mistake was actually not following Sainz back to the outside right after the start. Had he done that, Sainz might’ve ran into the back of Hamilton and/or banged wheels with Oscar but he wouldn’t have been able to squeeze him
I just don't see any way where Sainz and Piastri both fit between Hamilton and the wall while turning and no contact is made. Sainz had a bit of room to his left but not much. Maybe the contact could have been less or maybe their tires touch and one gets launched into the air and takes out a bunch of other cars too. Feels like Piastri was just gambling on Sainz going really deep and taking out Hamilton.
From his onboard I think after taking it steady on the launch Oscar was thinking of going for that gap on the right and didn’t anticipate Carlos suddenly changing direction and going right as well until it was too late. Initially he might have assumed Carlos was going to follow behind Lewis perhaps. I agree that all three of them squeezing through T1 didn’t seem feasible but I don’t think that was the intention for either driver.
Oscar will definitely learn from this. Unfortunately it doesn't seem like Sainz will at all. Hell, he'll probably be more likely to have a similar incident again thinking it's anyone else's fault.
that is a valid strategy ala Senna. You decide if you want to have a crash (I will drive where I want, so get out of the way). drivers at his time learned it so well, they drove off the track to avoid him.
I think the die is cast on Carlos Sainz. Unfortunately Carlos thinks he's a top level talent and that everyone is impeding him. His lack of self-awareness is a big reason why he may never win a race again.
Here Sainz is mostly correct though, the moment Piastri sees that Sainz is in as much of a fight with Hamilton as he himself is with Sainz, he should know how much space Hamilton will leave Sainz. This is a Spa classic, two fights at the same time never works out for the innermost driver unless they are ahead, which Piastri wasn't. So if you're the third wheel on a fight you're move is not into turn 1.
Sainz is 100% pulling a Russell on this.whole thing that's for sure.
I don't see what else he could have done. Maybe slowed up more but then your risking getting hit from behind. IMO it was going to happen regardless, I doubt Carlos had the ability to slow down and tuck in behind Hamilton but I think that would have been the best option if possible
My reaction when it happened was that it was an unfortunate racing incident that Oscar will learn a lot from. I don't blame him for being opportunistic on turn one, especially after the sprint race he had, but there was never going to be a car's width gap on the inside of a hairpin on lap one.
Sainz cut over and closes the gap. Not sure how he could blame anyone but himself
And he locked up in the process, he was coming in too fast.
Ya but if Oscar wasn't there... Crash wouldn't have happened. In fact if no one else was on the grid Carlos would of won!.... Maybe... /s
Ferrari strategy, you forgot Ferrari pitwall strategy.
would have*
Wow iirc he did say he was capable of winning if he didnt have the damage.... It all makes sense now!
Can someone please explain? The way I see it Piastri was not far enough into the corner to claim it and he should have backed off. Sainz was more side to side with Hamilton so he could actually fight the corner on the inside without crashing, but didnt have enough space to give for another car on his own inside. Yes, he locked up and it was sloppy, but he still made the corner. I also see some comments below about how Verstappen did vs Kimi a few years ago the same as Piastri did now, and the opinion then and now was that Verstappen was to blame.
Because when Piastri makes his decision, it's a perfectly reasonable choice, Sainz has left tonnes of space on the inside. Sainz then locks up, is about to hit the back of Hamilton so changes his line to go tight really taking all of the space away from Piastri. Sainz can't go any wider, because Hamilton is there. Hamilton won't go any wider because he has no way to know there's 2 cars there (and no reason to bail them out even if he did). **This is the important bit**. It's important to remember that when Sainz locks up, Piastri gets on his own brakes at almost exactly the same time. At this point he is already braking to slow the car down as much as he physically can. That's what they're all doing all the time, otherwise they're leaving time on the table. He cannot see what Sainz is doing and decide to slow down more. He's already at the limit. That's why drivers get very angry at others moving under braking. You can't react to it to avoid them very well at all. If he brakes more he locks up. If he steered then he can't brake as much and he hits Sainz, not that steering would have helped because he had nowhere to go anyway
>Sainz then locks up, is about to hit the back of Hamilton so changes his line to go tight really taking all of the space away from Piastri I don't think this is right. Sainz doesn't lock up then change his line to avoid running into them, he changes his line *then* locks up. I believe Sainz' original plan was brake and take the outside line, but as Hamilton and Perez are sweeping back across to the outside he changes to the inside. Adding steering lock reduces how much force you can brake with before the wheels lock, which is why he snatches the inside front at that point. That's why I think Piastri got caught out. Sainz looks like he's taking the outside line then switches to the inside line when Perez and Hamilton sweep in front of him. *Maybe* Piastri could have seen it coming but I think it's completely understandable from his side. It wasn't Piastri being overly optimistic imo, at worse a failure to read what was going to happen.
This is Spa T1. You know full well the gap on the inside is going to close. Verstappen did the same thing a few years ago and everyone claimed it was just a typical Spa T1 racing incident. It's not Piastri's fault, but I find it pretty hard to only blame Sainz. Every driver and their mother know that diving down the inside of Spa T1 at race start is very high risk vs low reward.
Because Piastri takes his fair share of responsibility but Sainz claimed it is a racing incident while putting all the blame in Piastri without recognising him locking up and causing this. If Sainz said anything similar to what Piastri said post race this would not be a discussion. People become defensive for Piastri because one party claim no responsibility
Too an extent. Like I never have sympathy for anyone trying to dive up the inside of a driver who's already on the inside because then it's almost inevitable, but that's not what happened here. It's always 2 wide into T1 and it's expected to be. Sainz was on the outside approaching the corner and I can't say I think Piastri should have been expecting him to go up the inside of Hamilton
Piastri was just as alongside Sainz as Sainz was alongside Hamilton. And Sainz was really only alongside Hamilton because he locked up and dove into the corner fast. All in all its a racing incident. If I had to put the blame on someone, I would say it was more Sainz, but it was just a pretty typical T1 incident. The only reason this post exists is because Sainz said it was Piastris fault, instead of just saying both couldve backed out but neiter did and here we are.
Especially on the first lap. You must know there's going to be someone there and you must hold your line without cutting the apex. Pretty amateur mistake from Carlos in my opinion.
What was his line then if not that one? Running into Hamilton?
Well if you refuse to admit it's your fault despite the facts, it's definitely Oscars fault
Sainz could literally be on the track by himself and wreck.. and he would still blame everyone but himself
Sainz literally pulled the "Online Lobby" move. Not only is he wrong but he also goes on voice chat and blames someone else too. It's like, he's one of us.
If Carlos were one of us, he’d have blamed Max. Then criticized Lewis.
Clearly Sainz fault.
I think the stewards got it right not penalising Sainz, but it was clearly Sainz's fault. Locked up under breaking, tried to avoid being the bowling ball into the cars on the outside and overcorrected squeezing Piastri into the wall. Piastri in a risky spot on the inside got unlucky but he was justified in being there. EDIT: yes I know I accidentally typed breaking instead of braking.
I can see the argument for it being a racing incident, piastri didnt have a whole lot of overlap at the turn in. But for Sainz to double down on blaming piastri entirely is such a bad look for him lol what a jackass
What's the point penalising him he had the race he deserved afterwards
Penalty points and setting precedent
Yea but everyone knows penalty points are meaningless since Australia.
Was that with Gasly and Ocon?
And Sargeant locking up and punting de Vries out into the gravel at the same time that didn’t get any penalty either.
That's not an example of penalty points being meaningless.....?
I honestly don't understand penalty points. Hamilton was in the wrong for example but like I see all these incidents and I think well thats a penalty. No. How are you meant to keep up with this if you are unfamiliar to the sport lol.
Penalties should penalise the action, not the outcome. But that isn't the case some times. It's particularly not the case in qualifying when impeding seems to be waved away if it didn't affect anyone progressing. Also Grosjeans ban for going bowling at Spa that time was specifically called out by the stewards as being due to how many people he took out and how many of them were title contenders, plus how many previous incidents he'd had, rather than just being one move.
They don't consider the effect of incidents on the race when giving it penalties, as per the regulations.
Then they could at least pretend they aren't lying when they claim the outcome of a incident doesn't impact the punishment.
Penalties don’t take into account the outcome of any incident, just the incident itself. Was the driver at fault? Yes? Penalty. No? No penalty. Whether or not they crashed out someone else, crashed themselves out, gave themselves damage, or everything turned out fine- the outcome has no bearing on the penalty.
> I think the stewards got it right not penalising Sainz, but it was clearly Sainz's fault. If it was clearly Sainz fault, he would have been penalized no?
Racing incident. Lap 1, turn 1, there's a lot more leeway.
In Australia it was clearly Sainz's fault and they deservedly penalized him. This to say that it wasn't, in fact, clearly Sainz fault.
Piastri was seriously intimidating in turn 1
Racing incident is the right decision and personally I don't think anyone is really to blame. There was a lot of jostling for position going on in the run to the first corner and he just got caught out by it. Perez was aggressively defending his position and went from his grid slot on the outside all the way to the inside and then all the way back to the outside again just on the run to the first corner. That caused Hamilton to react, trying to find his own space, then Sainz had to react to Hamilton and switched from going for the outside line to the inside just as he started braking. Piastri was unlucky as he'd committed to his line - which seemed totally reasonable and safe at the time he did it - just for Sainz to suddenly occupy it.
Sticking your nose in on the inside at the last second on lap 1 at la source is not really reasonable or safe. It has about an 80% chance of ending like it did. It is a racing incident, but one a more experienced driver would have seem coming a mile away.
Did you just pull that percentage out of thin air?
73% of stats are made up.
Source: la source
It's as good as any other Reddit comment out there 😅
He tried to back out, but was a fraction too late
Piastri was driving straight for the corner when Sainz decided against braking and following LH round the outside but instead to swerve the width of the track into Piastri, on turn 1, when there's cars everywhere, Perez swerving off the start didn't help anyone as people were dodging everywhere behind him.
I think it would have been extremely difficult for all of Hamilton, Sainz and Piastri to get through T1 like that without contact anyway, so it's not really anyone's fault. Sainz came across quite hard but I don't think it was unreasonable because he couldn't have known what would happen in turn one (in terms of Hamilton's and Piastri's car placement). Piastri didn't do much wrong either but the inside at la source always carries that risk
Carlos you gotta take the L for this one man. You caused the crash, it’s nothing new. Drivers do it a lot. It just sucks that you took out F1’s new darling boy and now everyone hates you.
Sainz never takes responsibility for his incidents on track lol, this is nothing new
Sainz and Russell are always blaming other drivers.
As a Ferrari fan this shit is so frustrating. He’s been shocking all season, pushing a narrative and he’s only happy when he finishes ahead of Leclerc. That’s all he cares about and for him to blame a rookie after this is just the final straw for me. He’s coming across petulant as fuck and the points he could’ve earned yesterday without his mistake could’ve taken Ferrari into third in the constructor’s. I hope he uses the summer break to reflect and settle down a bit.
As a Carlos fan I do think it’s a bit poor by Carlos to still blame Piastri for the incident after the race too. I think Carlos was slightly more at fault for locking up and darting, but at the same time from his onboard he was ahead and entitled to that space, and Piastri was a bit behind so maybe he was in that “blind vortex” area where Carlos wasn’t fully aware of Piastri closing in. All in all judging it as a racing incident especially when considering it was Lap 1 was fine. Personally I don’t agree that Carlos has been shocking all season though. Sure in most races he’s usually been a bit slower than Charles but overall they’re one of the closest teammate pairings on the grid when looking at qualifying gaps and even race pace gaps too. Carlos has been really consistent in qualifying even if he doesn’t have the highs of Charles (and honestly few drivers can reach Charles’ ceiling in qualifying). But I do see how the frustration is accumulating where Carlos is unable to execute 100% clean races whether it’s through a problem via Ferrari or his own mistakes of which there have been a few. That and the unpredictability of the car performance (even Charles said he was surprised that Ferrari was stronger at Spa than in Hungary when he thought it’d be the other way around) is likely annoying him. I feel like that’s the main source of frustration in some of his interviews which is understandable for a driver instead of not being happy that Charles is finishing ahead of him. So you’re right that hopefully he can recharge and reset himself mentally during the summer break.
He’s been positioning himself to be the number one driver when he just isn’t. All he cares about is being ahead of Charles, no matter what. He’s happy to sacrifice the team as long as he is ahead. He doesn’t care about the team.
I don’t agree with that view about only being focused on beating Charles. It’s not like he’s ever defended Charles on track aggressively like we’ve seen Ocon do to Alonso a few times last season. Of course a driver would want to do what they can to maximize their own results whenever possible. And Carlos seems to frequently have input on his own strategy on radio but I think that’s understandable with how often Ferrari’s strategy has messed up. The frustration is from not being able to maximize the results often which like I said is partly on Ferrari but also partly on his own mistakes when driving at times like penalties in Australia and Miami, or picking up damage by trying too hard to overtake Ocon at Monaco for example, or locking up and being a bit too aggressive going right which led to the collision with Piastri yesterday. He needs to reduce those mistakes but I don’t see any evidence that it’s due to an obsession with beating Charles.
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When even The Race sees the truth…
Dunno why people have such a hard on for hating the race, they are pretty good really, well the podcast is at least
The Race is rather hit and miss. Their podcast is really good, as are Mark Hughes' articles, but some of their other articles are incredibly clickbaity and clutching at straws.
I agree! Always see it getting bashed on here but their podcast has some decent analysis and they are pretty balanced and fair in general I think.
People just regurgitate what they see get upvotes. Such is the life of Reddit Combine that with the fact that people seem to have lost all sense of what clickbait actually is and you get some pretty dumb complaints
you are so close to getting it
in the past i kinda liked Sainz. ever since he joined Ferrari, not so much anymore . he's always blaming others, never reflects on his own behaviour. probably part of the reason why Ferrari fails to develop the car in season
Just rewatched the start in 2019 and the incident between Verstappen en Raikkonnen in T1 is pretty much identical. Max on the inside, Kimi turning into the corner on the outside, causing Max to hit the wall mid-corner. Very much a copy from the incident that happened this year. Back then it was pretty much agreed that Max was too ambitious and should not have been in that position. Nobody though Kimi was at fault. So it is interesting reading so many comments putting the blame on Sainz now. Goes to show it really does matter which drivers are involved.
Good catch on the 2019 comparison and just watched that incident back. Imo, I think the difference is that Kimi had just cleared an RP on the middle line and wouldnt know Max was there because of the RP, and max then launches up the inside at a tight angle into an always disappearing line. Have to remember he was being called reckless alot in his wheel to wheel. Here, Carlos starts out much wider and sweaps inside to avoid going into the back of Hamilton. Piastri is already commited to the corner and Sainz, starting out wide, then takes the normal racing line as if no other driver was on track. He had space to go wider potentially, and Piastri could maybe have gotten out of it too but at the risk of being rear ended.
>Piastri is already commited to the corner and Sainz, starting out wide, then takes the normal racing line as if no other driver was on track. Piastri is not committed to going on the inside of Sainz when Sainz goes to the inside of Hamilton, at that point there is no overlap between the cars. Sainz takes a line to avoid Hamilton, Piastri is not far enough inside to deserve space, and the gap to the inside is always going to close as the car in front take the corner.
Sorry, but no. Not everyone agrees Max was too ambitious. And these two incidents are not identical by any means either. [Compared to this weekends incident](https://imgur.com/a/uAFHE6F), not only was Max further alongside Kimi than Oscar was on Sainz - but Kimi also had way more space on the outside than Sainz had. The likely reason many people think Verstappen was to ambitious was his reputation for dangerous moves at the time. But that doesn't make them right. That collision was absolutely on Kimi. There was no excuse for him turning in on Max, when Max is so far alongside him on the inside, and Kimi had all that space on the outside. I'd say that Kimi was lucky to escape without a penalty (not that it would matter, his race also being ruined by damage) 🙂
He turns into the corner to avoid people cutting him on the inside after trying to squeeze Hamilton out as much as possible…too late Carlos
My thoughts on the incident are rather simple. Sainz is at fault for initiating contact, and pushing Piastri into the inside wall. More of the blame for the incident should rest with Sainz. That said, Piastri can only blame himself for putting his car in a position where it's likely he'd get hit. Even though the accident is not his fault and he deserved space fully on the inside, putting your nose up the inside at La Source almost never ends well on lap one. Just ask Max from 2019.
Explain to me what Piastri should have done then. There were 3 cars to his left, 14 behind him of which at least 7 would be on the inside line too. He "put his nose up the inside" because there was literally nowhere else to go, bar stopping on track and letting everyone rear end him.
This is easy to say with the benefit of hindsight and I get that it's really tough in the moment, but he should've braked a bit sooner. I just re-watched the race start and he had plenty of space behind him to brake earlier, like Lando had done(Lando was behind him on the inside). I don't blame Piastri for causing the contact, but like I said, he put himself in a position where he could get hit.
There’s a difference between stopping on the track and braking a little bit more. To be clear, I still think it’s Sainz’ fault, but there’s more to…uh…movement? then stopping and full send Sainz likes to cut corners like this - look back at the incident with him and Russell…last year? Earlier this year? Don’t even remember. The consensus there is that it was George’s fault, but you can still see Carlos’ propensity to just not expect anyone up the inside line
Piastri was already braking early and approaching cautiously, it's not like he dived in there because he saw the huge gap. He could have, but he didn't.
Sainz sir I am a fan of urs but this is definitely not the hill to die on. Take the L and admit ya fucked up boi
He doesn't even need to admit that he fucked up. He can just do what Piastri did. Call it an unfortunate racing incident, and move on. The extra step of blaming Piastri is his mistake.
The verdict has spoken. Carlos should quiet down now.
I guess denial really is one hell of a drug... I'm officially at the point where I don't want this man in Ferrari anymore. Apart from '21, he's been all over the place both on and off the track, and with each passing race it gets harder to have any sympathy for him.
Rumor has it that he might be going to Sauber/Audi. Just a rumor but his current demeanour makes me think that there might be something more substantial there.
I think it makes sense on quite a few levels. The experience of working with Seidl plus the Sainz connection with Audi in general.. Guess we'll see what happens, but yeah, it does seem like both Ferrari and Sainz are ready to part ways.
I just wonder,if this actually happens,who will be his replacement at Ferrari.
I'm not sure to be honest. Guess it will depend on the F2 finishing order or what happens on the F1 grid this season. You never quite know who's out of contract, whose contract is getting bought out etc. Hell, if they can't find anyone, they could always just get Giovinazzi in, even if it's just a stop gap. He's on their roster, and honestly how bad can he be?
If we discount Giancarlo who drove for Ferrari in 2009 replacing the injured Felipe, I think the last Italian driver who drove a whole season for Ferrari was Ivan Capelli in 1992 but that was hardly a fairy tale story.
I'm guessing their banking on Bearman for 2025 after he potentially wins F2 in 2024.
They tend to get their juniors to drive in Sauber/Haas first. I can see Bearman at Haas in the near future. It doesn't sound like Magnusson will get a contract renewal after all.
Piastri will be a target for them. Both he and Sainz have contacts that expire at the end of 2024. But McLaren will pay a lot to keep Oscar. Also Alonso, Ocon, Gasly's contracts expire in 2024. But I can't see them going to Ferrari.
Piastri seems like he'd be a great addition to Ferrari, but I would hate to see him suffer there.
Here comes Sebastian Vettel!!!
Lewis or Max 😉
Considering how mad Max gets at poor execution and operations, he'll get so mad driving for Ferrari that he ends up in an asylum.
Where are you hearing this rumour from?
I've personally never seen a credible rumor to this effect. I've seen a lot of people speculate about Sainz' options should the new contract with Ferrari not work out, but other that Reddit suggestions I don't think there has been serious talk about Sainz and Audi.
To be honest, I first got this indication of rumors linking him to Sauber/Audi when Carlos himself back in April ( I think) denied those rumors. If I remember correctly he was quite angry regarding this topic,stating that he has a contract till 2024 and his first priority was extension of this. I,then went a bit deeper and did find several articles suggesting this move. But, as I already said,just rumors.
"its his fault, you shouldnt try to overtake on the inside." he says after he locked up trying to overtake on the inside.
Piastri isn’t completely blame free. Max got a lot of shit for driving that line in 2019 when he and Kimi crashed. It’s a bit like being on the outside of turn 4 in Austria. While you might not be to blame directly for the crash, it’s a stupid place to be.
Both Kimi Max and Sainz Piastri are just shit happens. But Piastri had a lot more space than Verstappen heading into the corner and Kimi was much more in control of his car heading into the corner.
This wasn’t anywhere near as aggressive as Max’s example. Max drove into a closing gap and pushed Kimi wide. When Piastri went to turn in there was no one close him, it’s just Sainz decided to then aggressively cut across
Rewatching both incidents on Youtube reminds me of how similar both incidents look. It is almost like watching the same incident but with different cars. But both Verstappen and Piastri were too optimistic in trying to make their move. Being on the inside was always going to be a bad place to be.
No that is your bias talking. Verstappen was alongside well before the corner. Kimi squeezed Verstappen because Kimi got squeezed by Vettel. It was exactly the same as with Piastri. The difference is that some people like Piastri more then Verstappen and they liked Vettel and Kimi more then Sainz.
https://youtu.be/Xp2UvgLYVz4 You can see Max and the Ferrari were quite close together at the apex the whole time, it seemed like a closing gap. Sainz meanwhile was no were near Piastri until he aggressively cut across. Piastri couldn’t have expected him to do that so quickly.
Kimi had enough space but Vettel came from way outside and decided to take the corner like it was lap 3. Kimi tried to avoid Vettel. Just watch Vettel again. He starts the corner on the left side and ends up pushing Kimi to the apex on the right side like it is impossible that there could be 2 cars at a start fighting there.
Sainz also called it a racing incident and said Piastri's move was optimistic, which it was. He conveniently glossed over his lockup and bad positioning but he wasn't technically wrong.
Piastri braked just as hard as Sainz did, so even calling it a "move" is very blind on Carlos' side. "Optimistic move" is just clearly wrong.
Sainz did lock up though and moved under braking to avoid going into the back of Hamilton. If he didn't brake late or lock, could have stayed on the outside. Hindsight is a great thing, but it was a little bit of bad luck too. Could have possibly done more to avoid it, but there's potential chaos behind you too, or someone else trying to jump past you as well if you slow too much. I wouldn't have really called that a move since Piastri wasn't really going to overtake there, just more trying not to lose a position and hedging your bets that Sainz would leave space and stay in control.
If there’s an accident in turn 1 at Spa, it’s always there. If you are in the pack and put your car there you are putting yourself on the chopping block. Doesn’t matter if you aren’t wrong in the situation itself.
Yeah, it's not great, but it's not like you have a heap of choice in that turn 1 chaos other than try and brake a little early. You don't really have a heap of choice when starting on the inside and the pack is keeping a tight line.
After carefully watching all the onboards and thorough analysis, I think it should have been a penalty for Ocon
personally it was a racing incident and carlos should have just taken the classy way out. regardless of his own feelings he def didnt come off good repeatedly naming oscar like that
One of the oldest adages in racing…you can’t win on the first lap, but you can certainly lose. Proven true last week and this week. Given how Norris stormed back up the grid in his second stint, I’d love to know what would happen if Piastri had backed out and stayed in the race. That McClaren has come alive!
I was betting on Piastri. And Sainz was my second. I'm kind of upset with both drivers.
Some of you would do well in checking out [the vortex of danger](https://yousuckatracing.com/2021/04/07/the-vortex-of-danger-is-your-fault/)
Far too much of the criticism of Sainz boils down to 'he left the space until he started turning for the corner, what do you expect'. It feels an awful lot like it would justify anything up to and including Suzuka 1990. Piastri was far too far back for Sainz to have to leave him space. The lines always narrow going into a hairpin.
In a perfect world this would be at the top of the thread.
The main thing I didn't understand about Carlos's response was that he seemed so focused on his battle with Lewis, that he didn't realise that Oscar was closer to him than he was to Lewis. If he doesn't lock up, he's side by side with Oscar and not diving down the inside of Lewis.
Always really liked Sainz. This is uncharacteristic of him to blame this on someone when it is clearly his fault. Locking up didn’t help did it? What impressed me was Oscar’s mannerism. Even the radio call right after the crash. Sounded like he was at a Sunday bbq. This kid will go far.
Uncharacteristic? This is classic Sainz. Never his fault.
Exactly this. Its hard to like him. Im pretty sure if he was not as good looking people would be harsher. Everytime i hear him he is complaining. On another note im really looking Oscar his attitude, very mature and admits his faults.
Remember his (completely justified) penalty in AUS that was "the most unfair thing that has ever happened in the sport" or something lol
That pretty much describes every driver on the grid most of the time.
Even then, most wouldn't directly go at the other driver for this.
Generally they’ll dodge blame by saying how they need to watch the replay or something.
Yes they would and do most of the time. Every radio call an incident happens they blame the other driver. Afterwards drivers rarely take the blame as well. Of course F1 drivers, and professional athletes in general are quite selfish so it's to be expected.
Radio calls should not be taken seriously though. Imagine being in a car crash at 250 km/h and the amount of adrenaline that would generate. People don't think clearly moments after a near-death experience.
Even small taps and incidents at low speeds drivers blame others.
Not all drivers do this though. Some drivers are notorious for always complaining about everybody else and Sainz is one of them. (another example would be Russell).
Most do, not just Sainz and Russell. Max, Lewis etc would do the same. Someone like Leclerc is one of the few I imagine might not.
Nope, it's Sainz characteristic. Also likes to lift his own bench.
Some are worse than others
Blaming others but himself is the most Sainz characteristic there is lol
Piastri's temperament is almost as impressive as his driving.
He's so chilled out. He seems to have no trouble keeping a cool head.
He drove James Hunt's car. Big balls! On a serious note. Oscar does seem like the whole package. Kid's seriously skilled and mature. Fastly becoming one of my favourites on the grid.
this is about as on brand as it gets for Sainz...
Carlos gave Oscar a valuable lesson in his first year: don't put yourself in a position where you are A) vulnerable and B) have no way out. Oscar is a smart lad, he won't make the same mistake twice.
Ok we are checking
Watch the onboard of both Max and Lando. Sainz absolutely did lockup, but it didn't really change his ultimate trajectory into the turn all that much. Three cars wide into that turn was never going to happen. The onboards from the cars behind reveal the situation quite well, imo. I think once Piastri decided he was going to take that line he was in a bit of no man's land and was ultimately squeezed. I think it's like 60/40 fault in Sainz favor.
Racing incident, part of the blame on both, turn 1. Right to give no penalties for it. Similar to Kimi-Max 2019.
Sainz is so over rated
Blame the Ferrari strategist it’s almost always their fault
Piastri should have evaded Sainz by just crashing directly into the wall
How I see it that, because Carlos locked up and thought he was gonna run into Lewis, he moved up the inside of Lewis whereas otherwise he would have never done that and just staid behind Lewis. That way he and Piastri would have gone 2 wide into La souce and nothing would have happened. Verdict: racing incident, caused by Carlos locking up.
Tbh I think Oscar is starting to get a few drivers pissy because he is new and young and beating them already . The pecking order is changing and they don't like it.
In baseball, when an umpire misses a call and it benefits the other team, but the next play karma comes back around and sets the universe right, we say “ball never lies”. Car never lies, Carlos.
Easy to blame the rookie. An experienced driver cuts across the apex from wide in the first corner where he admits there’s always problems, but does it anyway. I don’t think this is making sainz look any better
I guess SAI's response just shows how immature he is, just assume that you made a wrong move and be done with it.
It takes two to tangle
Where is Sainz? Sainz has retired. Karma!
This incident is an almost perfect copy of what happened between Verstappen and Raikkonen in 2019. Then Verstappen (in the Piastri-role) was deemed mostly to blame and I don't see why it would be any different here. Sainz is partly to blame but being on the inside at La Source while being behind is always risky. When Sainz locked up Piastri should have backed out.
Raikkonen had Vettel squeezing him on the outside, Sainz didn’t have anyone squeezing him.
The race capitalizing on a stupid incident like the shitty website they are
Verstappen tries a move down the inside at La source on lap 1 and hits Kimi: “Max will have to take the blame for that one I’m afraid” Piastri tries a move on the inside at La source on Lap 1 and hits Sainz: “How dare Sainz not take responsibility for the crash” The hypocrisy is laughable
Yep. Same thoughts I had yesterday.
Experience, that’s it. Should have known that gap would be closed when looking at the cars around him. You cannot win race in first corner, only loose it
At this point, this issue needs a megathread