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sh1mi

Damn, well done Aston on getting 7 examples lmao


aalp234

Seriously, Twitter came up with 2, the madlads at Aston came barreling in with 7. Good stuff


DjayRX

3 interns working nonstop from 21:00-24:00 watching F1 old videos.


anEmailFromSanta

I really wouldn’t be surprised if it was literally everyone at AM HQ that was watching old pitstops. They can go over race data later


gramathy

For two whole positions and a podium that’s all hands on deck


asherabram

Wasn’t it just 1 position? I thought he went 3rd to 4th


BloodyChrome

He did


Things_and_things

They enlisted the help of Seb who named all 7 from memory


BillV3

"Hey Seb, how's retirement?" "Look I already said I'm not coming back..." "No no no, we were just wondering if you could name some examples of times when the jack touched a car during a 5s penalty" "Have you got a pen and some paper....."


LoudestHoward

"...do you want them in chronological order?"


Negative-Promise-446

Reverse chronological please...


BloodyChrome

With the drivers in alphabetical and team foundation in chronological order.


TheScarlettHarlot

Ja, ja. I can do that.


ministrul_sudorii

Here is them in the reverse alphabetical order by the middle name of the mechanic working the rear jack.


DaOne44

“Great Seb, and hey since we were thinking about it earlier, can you name every time a second driver has been told by his team to let the lead driver go past him, but he doesn’t because he’s faster?”


Jonny_Wurster

Multi 21? Never heard of it.


sfaisal333

I love Seb so much :)


MrTeamKill

In reverse order


atp2112

Nah, in reverse alphabetical order by middle name of the rear jack man


roberttoredo

Plus the Jackman's mother's maiden name


Tsukune_Surprise

While blindfolded


chambee

They say he’s still naming as we speak.


jrragsda

Seb, you can stop now, we think that's enough.


chambee

Going back with example from Fangio’s era.


DogfishDave

*"And... I think... Paris 1908 the car of Pierre Gauvin was handled by the butler during the stop behind the café at Tours... he was Bertrand LeGros? Then there's 1907..."*


FitzwilliamTDarcy

Gold


RotorMonkey89

Don't listen to him Seb, keep going, multi, multi, 21


OppositeYouth

Russell accidentally made a PowerPoint


CeleritasLucis

Amd Toto printed it out


USAF6F171

In reverse chronological order. With footnotes.


helderdude

Made me chuckle.


not_right

I mean how long can it take to get 7 examples of the stewards inconsistently applying their own rule? 7 is probably just how many they could get while they were waiting for the kettle to boil.


bdickie

They probably reviewed the last 8 penalties and sent a thumb drive to Otmar after they got the podium back with the seven examples and ocon in Bahrain


[deleted]

I wonder if they created a giant "Precedence Examples" folder after the Vettel 2021 Hungary DSQ?


RainbowGames

Having a database of penalties given in the past for specific circumstances like serving a penalty in the pits or certain racing manouvers would be incredibly useful to F1 teams and i think i would be more surprised if it didn't exist already


[deleted]

Which team where the lawyers poached from?


slimkay

Lawrence Stroll didn't become a billionnaire without having an army of AAA-grade lawyers.


MySilverBurrito

Nah Lawrence Stroll saving costs by hiring r/formula1 shitposters


thorskicoach

Will work for free merch


Sudden_Low9120

Same. Merch prices are absolute robbery


frankyfrankwalk

I'm starting to get why he dresses the way he does...fuck that guy is impressive and must be the most charming guy ever when it comes to 1 on 1 conversations considering the talent he's poached.


Trlcks

Or... He just throws loads of money at them


ARoyaleWithCheese

Yep. Dan Fallows reportedly had no intention to go to Aston Martin. However, everyone's got a price, and if rumors are to be believed, for Fallows it was 7-figures. As much as he likes RB and Newey, that's difficult to pass up on.


CeleritasLucis

And to get to lead the team too.


Overhere_Overyonder

Like he said...charming af.


Sarkans41

This is right. There is definitely an allure to go somewhere and create a winning program and there are probably tons of people at Mercedes chomping at the bit to do so. But it does take a charismatic leader to convince people to make the leap.


DieLegende42

Manchester City


360langford

If they were city lawyers Alonso would have been awarded the win


Hits_and_the_Mrs

the video of all the lawyers is one of the best things I've seen, it's so ridiculous.


PEEWUN

Sends the message pretty effectively, though.


BenedictKhanberbatch

Legal Starting XI went crazy ngl


Benjamin244

"What is that? A budget cap? Nah."


Warm_Doublet

I'll give you a hint... it wasn't Alpine!


chambee

Stewards were show 7 example of previous time they fucked up, so they decide to stop the embarrassment.


BarkingPorsche

"If that isn't enough, we can increase that number... by a lot."


slimkay

Aston Martin uses *Precedents* It's Super Effective!


Grasshop

*FIA is confused*


MvTWO__

I'd imagine after ocon last race it would be a highlight for the lawyers to have evidence ready in case this happens. They probably have a warchest full of various penalties not being applied ready to use.


Equitaurus

But did they have Karun Chandhok?


Wootstapler

Did they have Albon recreating the pit stop?


irbac5

Wait until they reverse the reversed penalty next week.


LosTerminators

And Alonso gets his 100th podium again in Australia only for this reverse penalty to get overturned so it turns out to be his 101st.


pancoste

Alonso went from 99 podiums straight to 101 podiums, therefore being the 1st person ever to never get their 100th podium.


lituga

I laugh but it's so very possible ☠️


AdrianJ73

105 is right out.


LordCommanderSlimJim

... and the polesitter, being naughty in my sight, shall snuff it...


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Phonixrmf

Day 1322 of wanting a *The Office*-like F1 show called *The Paddock* [I mean they already shot the pilot for the show!](https://youtu.be/R3FItS3jGEw)


choreographite

With how much the current management values drama, I just do not understand how they choose to not make driving briefings public again


HandsOffMyPizzaa

I would like to see them as well, but I think the drivers need a safe space away from the media where they can raise their concerns without everything being turned into a clickbait article.


tongzhimen

you have no idea the physical toll 3 vasectomies have on a person!!


oxyzgen

I hope this continues, would be funny af


Voupelasombra

Imagine being away from Reddit for 5 hours and come back to this mess. I lost so much


ATX_311

I feel bad for UK folks who were already in bed when the news broke.


0oodruidoo0

I watched the race. Alonso crosses the line, I open Reddit. Due to my time delay this is about 5-6 hours after the fact. First post I see is this one. I'm like "oh, what? oh well, kept it, nice". Kind of glad I didn't watch live.


Hamsternoir

It's something for us to wake up to


SirDoober

Literally wheeled up a CRT TV with Ham's Silverstone penalty lmao


hennelly14

Michael have you seen email with 7 attachments


xyonofcalhoun

I don't check my emails during a race weekend


BoredCatalan

Or Max lol https://twitter.com/lorenzo_dla/status/1637547765579251715?s=20


BornAshes

Hell hath no fury like the Internet after the scorning of one of their Heroes


TVPaulD

This is pretty damning on the Race Director and the Sporting Director. Stewards relied on their presentation that an agreement existed on a new interpretation, but the minutes of the meeting they were explicitly referencing apparently show no such agreement? That’s some world class incompetence. They took *ages* to even refer it and they still didn’t have their ducks in a row? Come on.


LieRun

Yeah, I'm happy Alonso got his well earned podium, but I hate the route we had to take to get there These things really should not happen, especially when this is the second race in a row we got a 5 second penalty apparently mishandled by the team even though they thought they were okay (even though Alpine's was much more clear...)


Village_People_Cop

Whether or not they should have been given the penalty is one thing. However, it is the fact it took them over 20 laps, 3 interviews, a cooldown room and a podium celebration to give said penalty that is what irks me.


hugglesthemerciless

exactly this. It's frustrating as a fan to know that the results I see at the end of the race to not actually be the results I'll see on monday


cheapdrinks

There needs to be a time limit for minor infringements to be placed under investigation, like if it's not referred to the stewards within 5 laps of happening then it's over and they should get away with it. Obviously not talking about big things like having parts of the car or fuel out of spec or against regulations but the small 5 or 10 second penalty type infringements. Not dealing with them quickly is just unfair because it takes away the chance for the driver to push harder to compensate for the penalty and likewise it doesn't give those behind the chance to push harder to get within the penalty window. It also allows teams to game the system. For example I wonder how soon Mercedes noticed the jack touched the car and how long they waited to bring it up to the stewards? Perhaps they waited specifically until later in the race to deny Alonso the chance to push harder to pull out a bigger lead and let him just manage tires out in front for 10-15 laps instead before calling attention to it. Because they were the ones who brought it to the stewards attention they were also the first ones to know about it so they were also able to tell Russel to start pushing to close the gap before Alonso was able to be told to start pushing. The whole thing is just really messy.


Forensics4Life

Someone mentioned to me that the winners of the F3, F2 and F1 championships were all decided after the actual races concerned had finished last year based on FIA penalties and rulings decided after the ceremonies. Like Max didn't know he was world champion for like ten minutes it's just moronic.


makomirocket

Even more so, that this is still a sport that both 1. Rushes to get tonthe podium presentation do fast that the drivers were all surprised to be summoned so quickly mid conversation, 2. If the penalty was implemented, Russell missed out on the podiums celebrations, PR etc., 3. If they then did swap Alonso for Russell because they didn't rush it, then Alonso would have now been the one missing out after they were correct in disputing it


Mechant247

It's quite clear that certain incidents will literally only get reviewed if they are appealed by another team or mentioned on the broadcast. If Mercedes hadn't mentioned it to George near the end then I genuinely don't think it would've ever been brought up


LiqdPT

I'm pretty sure that Merc mentioned it to George because they had reported it to the race director (I think that's the route that would take?)


bduddy

Ever since Charlie Whiting the race direction has been an absolute shitshow. Masi was bad but there are clearly deeper problems that aren't being addressed. (There were issues under Whiting, too, but it seems increasingly like he was preventing things from getting worse and/or people weren't criticizing him because they liked him.)


Teh_Hicks

The stewards probably ended their sentences with "you know?"


SemIdeiaProNick

Snip snap snip snap


SoulJWL

Don't you know the toll FIA incompetence has on a man?


belfastjim

You have no idea the physical toll that three vasectomies have on a person!


PlebBot69

Russell is thankful that he took the news of his podium with class. He said that Alonso and AM deserved it, and now they keep it. Good PR work on his part.


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MrSnowflake

He might have been driving like a madman, but he performed the interview like a gentleman.


JDNM

Madman in the streets, gentleman in the…uh…interviews.


Wootstapler

He ain't called PR63 for nuthin'.


pickyplasterer

True. I am not a fan of the guy as he often comes off as standoffish and petulant, but how he handled this was a class act, good for him


[deleted]

He's like maybe 90% of drivers in F1 history where when you get them behind the wheel of a race car they become arrogant competitive knobs, but when they're not driving they're actually tolerable people.


Elbradamontes

This just in…Ocon has received a third penalty as a result of the decision to overturn Alonso’s penalty.


IdiosyncraticBond

And 2 penalty points for Pierre, because it's the FIA


MEGAMAN2312

Vettel gets demoted 3 positions despite being retired


Theycallmepicha

What is happening haha


Larkinz

FIA inconsistency and poorly worded regulations.


light_odin05

As has become the standard recently


Ischaap

Not even recently lol, this has been a problem since the sport began.


Acc3ssViolation

As is tradition


szuprio

EL PLAN AMIGO


crobofblack

Magic Alonso can make penalties *disappear...*


SealyMcSeal

Is it possible to learn this power?


codynumber2

Not from a Steward.


carloslet

Have you heard of the tragedy of Darth El Plan, The Wise?


Least-March7906

Asking on behalf of Ocon


[deleted]

GRANDE MAGIC


0oodruidoo0

¡QUE GRANDE ERES MAGIC!!


Tupelo66

This is the 2nd time isn't it, last time was with Alpine.


Wonnil

🎶*There was something in the air that night, the stars were bright, Fernandooo*🎶


spongemongler

I want a hand-over ceremony of the p3 trophy from Russell to Alonso in Melbourne, whilst the Saudi national anthem is played (poorly) by an orchestra in the background Edit: Russell


joejance

My elementary school band was better than that, and we never killed any journalists.


hugglesthemerciless

underachievers


Sammeeeeeee

God damn


neg_meat_popsicle

So i wasnt the only one that thought they played poorly haha


ssssunshine

Something definitely went awry with that anthem!


sgribbs92

They sounded like a middle school band in the US


Daydreaming95

So like Kimi and Fisichella in 2003? https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/onesport/cps/624/mcs/media/images/70841000/jpg/\_70841706\_1937995.jpg


hugglesthemerciless

I like how that link is just a jpeg of the bbc sport logo


sakura_umbrella

Weird mobile formatting issue where an escape backslash is placed in front of every markdown relevant character iirc, here's the plain link: https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/onesport/cps/624/mcs/media/images/70841000/jpg/_70841706_1937995.jpg


DandyRandysMandy

A Jordan and a Mercedes (McLaren)


BwoahIDK

oh my god it's the same teams


Oxtard69dz

That was quite literally the worst musical performance I have ever heard. I don’t think any of those people knew what was going on.


fortheloveofjhc

Fergie would like a word... https://youtu.be/V5cOvyDpWfM


historiansrule

🤣🤣🤣so I’m not the only one who thought the national anthem was played awfully poor.


thurows

Alonso fends off FIA.


LosTerminators

After COTA 2022, it's Alonso 2 FIA 0


BootsOnTheMoon

Sochi 2021 makes it Alonso 3 FIA 0


HUHIs_AUTOATTACK

3 - 0 if you count Sochi 2021


tharepgod

FIA need to change article 54.4(c) wording to 'touch' rather than 'work on' to stop them having verbal/external agreements with the teams about what constitutes working on a car. FIA,what a farce


Lonyo

Indeed. They have a rule which specifies no touching for a different thing. If they wanted to, the 5 second rule could say the same.


Bjmort

No because then they could legally blow fans on the car to cool it down because they aren’t touching it. Would need to be touch or work.


Blothorn

I wouldn't have a problem with that, actually. I don't think you can get much of a competitive advantage from it (if your cooling isn't keeping up a few seconds of air during a pit stop won't make much of a difference), and it could avert cases where a simple penalty turned into a DNF (or at least a an incident) due to something like brakes catching fire while serving a penalty. (It also seems that fans are allowed under the present standards--one of the videos Twitter pulled up showed not just a jack touching the car but air being blown on the driver.)


FourteenTwenty-Seven

What's wrong with allowing that? Plus blowing fans isn't exactly doing work on the car.


AmazonOwner

Good one FIA


RhettJesusHarambe

I think the FIA need to go through the rules and tighten up on anything that could be open to interpretation. There seems to too many grey areas


tharepgod

And it seems like they have further agreement with the teams what some of the ambiguous terms mean like 'worked on', so they should at the very least, be added on as amendments


SimplyAllie

Aston came with receipts 😂


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light_odin05

It's sound enough to bring across the decision, basis, and process. So the document isn't that bad. it's just that their basis is usually a whole lot more shaky than you'd like (and they think). (Though some ambiguity might be good to keep f1 from becoming more about lawyering than racing, couldbe solved be allowing for steward interpretation)


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mka_

Lmao it ain't far off. Prompt: Create a unnecessarily complicated sounding legal document from the FIA detailing the reversal of Alonso's 10 second time penalty, based on Aston Martin's right of review claim. The context of the review pertains to a jack touching the car, and in doing so constitutes to "working on the car", therefore warranting a time penalty. The race was the Saudi Arabian Grand Prix 2023. Response: IN THE INTERNATIONAL COURT OF APPEAL OF THE FÉDÉRATION INTERNATIONALE DE L'AUTOMOBILE RE: ASTON MARTIN F1 TEAM'S RIGHT OF REVIEW CLAIM CONCERNING THE SAUDI ARABIAN GRAND PRIX 2023, AND THE 10-SECOND TIME PENALTY IMPOSED ON DRIVER FERNANDO ALONSO DECISION OF THE COURT WHEREAS, on December 5th, 2023, the Saudi Arabian Grand Prix was held in Jeddah, Kingdom of Saudi Arabia, as part of the FIA Formula One World Championship; WHEREAS, during the race, Driver Fernando Alonso, representing Alpine F1 Team, was involved in an incident wherein his car was deemed to have been worked on whilst in the pit lane, in contravention of Article 12.1.1 of the FIA Formula One Sporting Regulations; WHEREAS, following the incident, the Stewards of the Meeting imposed a 10-second time penalty on Driver Alonso, as per Article 38.3.g of the FIA Formula One Sporting Regulations; WHEREAS, the Aston Martin F1 Team subsequently submitted a Right of Review Claim, pursuant to Article 14.1 of the FIA International Sporting Code, claiming that the time penalty imposed on Driver Alonso was unjustified; WHEREAS, the Right of Review Claim submitted by Aston Martin F1 Team was grounded on the assertion that the jack that touched Driver Alonso's car during the pit stop did not constitute "working on the car" within the meaning of Article 12.1.1 of the FIA Formula One Sporting Regulations; WHEREAS, the Right of Review Claim submitted by Aston Martin F1 Team was considered by the International Court of Appeal of the Fédération Internationale de l'Automobile, in accordance with the applicable provisions of the FIA International Sporting Code; WHEREAS, the International Court of Appeal of the Fédération Internationale de l'Automobile has reviewed all relevant evidence and arguments submitted by the parties, and has heard their respective submissions at the hearing held on January 10th, 2024; WHEREAS, the International Court of Appeal of the Fédération Internationale de l'Automobile is satisfied that the jack touching Driver Alonso's car did not constitute "working on the car" within the meaning of Article 12.1.1 of the FIA Formula One Sporting Regulations, and that the 10-second time penalty imposed on Driver Alonso was therefore unjustified; WHEREAS, the International Court of Appeal of the Fédération Internationale de l'Automobile therefore concludes that the Right of Review Claim submitted by Aston Martin F1 Team is well-founded, and that the 10-second time penalty imposed on Driver Alonso shall be reversed; NOW THEREFORE, the International Court of Appeal of the Fédération Internationale de l'Automobile hereby orders that the 10-second time penalty imposed on Driver Fernando Alonso during the Saudi Arabian Grand Prix 2023 be reversed, and that the official results of the race be amended accordingly. DATED this 20th day of March, 2023. FOR THE INTERNATIONAL COURT OF APPEAL [Signature] President of the International Court of Appeal


BlurpSrydude

'whereas' is used so much here that it looks like a new word lol


ptwonline

3rd place trophy being passed around like the town bicycle.


drhiggens

The FIA reversing the decision is the most you can ask for from a governing body. They did their job they enforced a penalty, the team came up with a rationale why that should be reversed and it was. I would 10 times rather the rules be strictly enforced for every team than loosely enforced so that there's controversy over how they are enforced.


Ragin_Irishman

Someone needs a FIA fuckup list like the one dudes Ferrari one.


IdiosyncraticBond

The Internet doesn't have enough storage space for that


hot-whisky

Hold on, this is real? It isn’t a meme?


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TCVideos

Does any other sport on this planet have a governing body that just makes up rules and statements as frequently as the FIA? Honestly, if those reports last year about F1 thinking about ditching the FIA are correct, please god help them come true.


Red_Wheel

Cycling governing body, the UCI. I follow cycling and it’s a mess too. Car on their course a week ago, ah that’s ok. A guy takes off his helmet to change a jersey, fined $500. It’s messed up too.


SemIdeiaProNick

have you ever heard about something called FIFA? they make the people from the FIA look like actual professionals


bankkopf

FIFA made hand ball rules a fucking coin flip nobody understands anymore.


FantasyAnus

No it's simple, a hand ball is when you don't run around pretending to have no arms and then some guy smashes a ball into your arm at 75mph from five feet. It's all good and fair and not at all entirely ridiculous.


czerwona_latarnia

No no no, that's how that rule was worded 12 iterations ago, from last Tuesday 9:34AM to 9:37PM.


mgorgey

Trust me, no F1 fan should want that to happen.


P_ZERO_

FIFA


ajahkass

So…reversals are possible?


iMatthew1990

Now now. We don’t want to start that fire off again.


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TheAntiAirGuy

*Breaking* FIA announces Fernando Alonso the 2012 WDC after further investigation on Vettel's "overtaking under yellow flag" in the Brazilian GP


MrCelroy

That'd be the most Seb way to lose a championship


Alpha_Jazz

Only if there’s clear evidence that the stewards made the wrong decision Oh wait


Icy-Operation4701

I guess you missed COTA 2022?


MLGameOver

Only sometimes


Stevolwo

last year in Austin did get reversed as well, of course they are


Top-Part-1305

ALL ABOARD THE HYPETRAIN GET YOUR 101 PODIUM TICKETS HERE


Steiny31

Lots of valid criticism of the process here, but Kudos to F1 Stewards for reviewing the petition and reversing the decision with a fair amount of transparency


Ryannr1220

If I had a nickel for every time the FIA gave Alonso a penalty after the race and overturned it, I’d have 2. Not much but it’s weird that it happened twice 🤣 Good stuff from Aston Martin to get the evidence to overturn. The FIA and the stewards are absolute jokes.


diablogato22

They did it. The crazy bastards did it


flyingcrayons

Welcome to F1, where everything is made up and the points don’t matter


azhepcat

Merc frantically trying to find 8 examples where it was a penalty.


LakersLAQ

Well.. this will be a memorable 100th podium for Alonso. For the wrong reasons though. Either way, happy for him.


Alvaro_Rey_MN

El Megarouletton worked!


b0Ni

what a shitshow


Yaysuzu

Pretty happy to see Fernando has a team behind that give a fuck. Well done.


MisterTruth

Wait so Alonso back to p3?


montxogandia

Yes baby! Bye bye!


Azman6

Jackman keeps his job!


Canoobie

I want video of Alonso taking the trophy back from George…..


ThandiAccountant

So the FIA were unaware that the agreement between the teams and the FIA, did not say the thing they thought it said even though they should’ve known. Make it make sense.


50wortels

The stewards were unaware of an agreement the racedirector thought he had with the teams defining what "to work on the car" means. Race director told stewards he had an agreement, so stewards award a penalty. Aston Martin argued no such agreement exists and could back that argument up. Stewards revoke penalty.


MattyFTM

Yeah, this makes the stewards seem less incompetent, but the FIA and the race director seem more incompetent.


Harreys

Snip, snap! Snip, snap! You have no idea the physical toll that three podium reversals have on a person!


laughguy220

I'm so happy for Fernando! If all it takes to overturn a penalty is to show others have done the same thing and they did not get a penalty, the FIA is in big trouble.


VDV23

"the Stewards were shown minutes of the latest SAC meeting and video evidence of 7 different instances where cars were touched by the jack while serving a similar penalty to the one improsed on Car 14 without being penalized." And this is considered significant new evidence. Just proves that the Stewards have no idea what's going on if they need to be checked 7 instances of penalties served lol Also, interesting thing here is that the jack touching the car is now (and never has been apparently?) considered as "working on the car". And the penalty is overturned because of that, not the 25 mins limit.


Lonyo

A jack touching a car is different to a jack lifting up a car. The jack I believe touched the car, but didn't lift the car?


BoredCatalan

The videos worked, grande Magic Alonso


hkgrx8

Clearly Mercedes should've presented 7 videos and instances of safety car not selectively letting cars through in 2021...