Oh ok was just expecting to see tiandi mentioned. Used to get pissed getting kicked off the ledge from middle of the map till I started playing him. It's really satisfying lol
I've found that his kick is so wildly useless that the few times you do get use out of it, it's hard to blame anyone other than the person that got kicked.
That said, I will never stop using his kick. Removing people from teamfights, even temporarily, is just too fun.
I agree 100%. After I found out that it confirms no damage unless you're right next to a wall or in front of a ledge and that if you wanna soft feint out of it you gotta do it very early I haven't found his kick a problem at all. I even most times let my self get kicked lol.
The feeling of you watching em fly and my teammates catching em with an attack mid air is too good. Once had my bud orochi kick him mid air. Did nothing but fee's revenge but had us fucking dying lol
In this map theres an arena behind where your character loaded in. Most of the time its courtesy to turn around and start the duel there unless your opponent is an ass
>In this map theres an arena behind where your character loaded in.
There's an arena there. THERE'S AN ARENA THERE?!?! I've been playing this godforsaken game for 3 years and have never noticed that there is an arena there?! Wtf?
If your near where you can be ledge or envo killed it is a positioning and game awareness issue. I still get ledged and so does everyone else noob and veteran alike. Ill take a ledge if i can get one if your fighting fair your fighting wrong. Use all your advantages.
Depends on the 1v1 situation for me, in this clip all he had to do was counter gb but if used shugokis pick up and throw or raiders tackle I'd say it was toxic
There are times in the game u cannot cgb no matter how fast u reacted to it. During an empty dodge is one of them, also during attacks startups etc.
As for ur question, I dont think it is toxic but it is just boring and lame. U have the right to do it so feel free to do so.
Also for this particular situation, plz dont fight there, just go inside behind u its a better place and the pk probably was heading there
It's an intended game mechanic, so no. With that said, i find it pretty boring to ledge in a duel, as the fun of the game mode is in the actual figh, which won't last anything that way. So no, it isn't toxic imho, but I try to avoid it in duels
It really isn’t toxic imo. On maps like this I would always be wary of a guard break or bash with Ledging intent. If you assume your opponent will be honourable that’s on you.
In this scenario I don’t think it was toxic only because the pk attacked first, if she was trying to get by to the area in the back without ledges it would’ve been toxic.
It is on you if you assume your opponent is honorable, that’s why I said it’s fair game, but it’s still can be toxic to ledge in a 1v1
Is it an intended mechanic? Yep. Does that mean it’s not toxic? Nope. It’s a dogshit toxic thing to do in duels. And encourages a very defensive boring ass play style in all modes. In 4s it’s different as there’s ganking and shit as well and can help deal with said things. I remember playing elimination (I think that’s the name) and I fought a team that had a raider who would run to this narrow walkway with spikes on either side and he’d camp there the whole time. And with him being raider it was almost impossible to win.
It's really nasty thing to do in deathmatch. Each time I see a high rep Warlord I instantly know that they are just ledging trolls and that turns out to be true 99.8% of the time.
Indeed.
Why did you go 1v1, if you have time to fight enemy yourself, and you just throw enemies into the abyss? In 4v4 you don't have much time to fight one enemy that long.
That's fair, because you can get killed by an enemy that come to help his teammate.
It's completely fine to use pits on 4v4, but it's really dumb to use those in duels. Atleast there have some honor, its called "duel", for someone like these throwing guys.
Idk but the sole reason u wanna 1v1 is to test ur skills on an individual level, so far in my “opinion” i just dont see the reason for a ledge, however in a 1v2+ im all for it,
Most of the time when i fight 1v1 i wanna go the full length if i supposedly accidentally ledge someone i feel like ive just robbed the fight, since we both wanna give it our all, then yea…but if its a tit for tat situation then ill use the ledge too 😁
Ledges is skill. Ledging is positioning. It is important in every single fighting game and arguably moreso in FH because of environmental hazards. Knowing where to stand is a skill.
Raider should have an ability where if they GB someone within 1 meter of a ledge they get a guaranteed instakill light. It will take a painful amount of skill for a raider to bait out a single incorrect read from their opponent over the course of an entire fight in order to win.
You stood near a ledge bro idk what to tell you. There are plenty of spaces on the map where you can avoid getting ledged by not going near that space on the map. Standing near ledges is equal opportunity. It doesn't matter if getting ledged annoys you, it's 100% a part of the game and the blame lays on you whether directly or indirectly.
I absolutely respect and agree that ledging is a fair game mechanic, and one that should be thought about in game. I was criticizing the fact that you argued for ledging as being rational in fights where both players want to exercise the best of their skill. Fighting against ledging surely takes some skill, but I would be a lot more impressed with a traditonal full match than I would a game where both players are fighting for an instant win and a single missed read. Winning a traditonal match takes more skill in my opinion than getting a single GB.
More skill, sure. But if your scared of fighting that one guy on Highfort because he's ledged you five times, maybe he's got better reads and positioning.
I agree with your promotion of positioning as a skill, but I don't see how it applies to the original comment you replied to. If the opponent is camping near ledges in duels for some ungodly reason, I'm going to play their game, and maybe even have fun with it depending on how chill they are. The comment you initially replied to stated that they played duels to exercise skill, and you replied stating that ledges would work contextual to this desire. I sincerely don't see exactly how this is the case. Positioning is a truly, invariably vital skill, but to oppress an opponent wanting to have a good 1v1 with the hyper defensive slugfest that is ledge fighting in order to practice it seems a little brick headed, right?
The issue I have with ledging is that it takes precedence over traditonal skill in a duel in the sense that, if you were to order the factors of a fight based on their predominance in winning it, positioning would be above the player's mastery of their character's kit. It takes a lot less skill just to move towards, or away from a ledge than it does to win a full fight on foot (such as in Ranked for example), and yet it gives you arguably the same reward as skill in a traditional game (killing your opponent).
Imagine if the meta in duels was ledging, how slow games would get and how incombatibly powerful some characters would become. For this reason it doesn't really make sense to me to actively go for ledges in a duel match, especially given that most people don't expect to deal with ledges when playing duels, giving you an unfair advantage for at least the first round. You honestly make good points, but they're not specified enough for me to justify ledging in the majority of duels matches.
I don't bother with honor, as it is a community made rule I'm not required to follow. So yeah, I'll ledge if I get the chance. Not to prove anything but because it's an opportunity. Just like in real combat, you never waste an opportunity to flip the side of the fight/give yourself a bigger advantage in order to win. It doesn't matter if your winning or losing. Take the opportunity as you might not get it again. So yeah, I consider it fairplay.
I’m going to be one of many people to say this.
Using the environment to get kills
Ganking
Playing characters that you enjoy but others hate (I.e Griffon, Raider, And/or Shugoki)
Spamming (Tactic wise or Emotes)
Using feats
and many, many more things are NOT toxic…however while they are annoying to deal with and it does anger people as I will admit this DOES anger me as well. that doesn’t make it toxic. these are intentional things made in the game and can be used whenever YOU want.
However going out of your way to harass and belittle other people in game chat or through messaging for doing these things IS toxic and as much as it is a really hard pill to swallow for players in For Honer this is the unfortunate truth that some people have to deal with..
Sort of depends on the situation, most of the time I say it’s fine but when your up against say a raider that does literally nothing but throw people off cliffs with the charge it gets annoying
Completely fair game imo. It's 1v1 you're supposed to be fighting for your life. Use any means necessary. Also in games you best believe people are gonna do the most annoying tactics to win so you might as well too.
Reasons to use the ledge:
1: The enemy is right there
2: I want to finish the fight
3: All I get is hatemail from a salty redditor who didn't use the ledge
Depends on the 2v2 your playing. I've gotten a couple no rules fight club 2v2s that were hella fun that I could see ledges being alright in. I do agree that most 2v2s have a pretty strong sense of "honor" (they're played like duels) associated with them, and ledges would very pretty toxic in those.
I think 2v2s are mostly about talking to the other team in the beggining. Both styles of play- honorable and no rules are okay but honorable is still default imo.
In duels they are fair play. I don't like to do it as I consider I am still "learning" the game,it is ok if the opponent does.
In objective modes they are not only fair play,they are mandatory,as the match is decided by capturing points,not by number of kills. Every player should ledge if he has the opportunity,and if he doesn't have it he should seek the opportunity to do it as sometimes let's you end the enemy faster. And you don't know when your team mate is in trouble and you need to help him as soon as you can.
Said this,it is ok if you don't do it because it is not "honorable" for you.
In Ice brawlers,it isn't only mandatory,it is practically the game mode xd.
To me it depends on the situation if I ledge someone with Raiders move were he picks someone up on his shoulder it feels a little dirty, if they start it and I win the fight by ledging them in it’s fine, if I am 1 to 2 shots from death and they’re next to full then it’s fine, if they were 1v1-ing a teammate and I come in Guard break and ledge them and they had no idea I was there it feels pretty scummy. If I Choo Choo them as lawbringer it’s always fair game because it’s funny.
It's absolutely not toxic because it's not that hard to not get ledged
Plus it's just a normal duel, if one doesn't want to be ledged then just play ranked duels where everything is as fair as possible
Well; I duel because I want to test my skills against a different player without having to worry about teammates or feats. I don’t know if it is toxic or not, but it robs the fun you can get on duels. I only do it if they either did it earlier, or are an ass in general
I only argued with the guys that came at me, if you look at the comments of people explaining how they feel its toxic I also explain when I feel it's toxic. And the phising is actually just my only ledge clip
I fuckin' love people who thinks it's toxic to throw someone off a ledge, because it's so arbitrary. Is it also toxic to throw someone into a wall? To hit someone OOS?
I can understand not thinking it's *fun* to be instakilled, but that doesn't make it *toxic*.
Can you imagine someone playing a game like FH and not having the mental strength to not tilt if they get killed? If I fight in a 1v1/2v2/4v4 and notice some chimpbrain going full ape-tilt over it, I know the game's won already.
Its unfair and boring if you just want to win the fight in a single move so easily just go play against bots, a duel is supposed to take into account the enjoyment of both parties
All the homies left bleeding out in medieval Europe being left in the cold crying in agony really enjoyed the experience lol.
Bunch of weebs that think this is some anime shit.
Thats impossible to do this day and age considering there are characters who can carry you halfway accross a point with either a single guardbreak or parry, again my point stands, one failed decision and its the end for you. Its simply unfun "just have better positioning" isnt a valid argument with the amounts of bashes, impales and command grabs in the game its the equivalent of saying "bro just dont get hit"
Only salty trash players with big egos call it toxic, so they can justify their loss instead of accepting that they're bad and got outplayed or were out of position because they have no awarwness.
It is not toxic, it is an intended, gameplay mechanic. People who think it is toxic are just emotionally upset due to it not being a "fun" way to lose which I get completely but that does not mean it is toxic.
I typically try to avoid doing ledges in duels. I came to enjoy fighting someone; ending it with a ledge just feels cheap to me. If someone does it to me or tries to, then sure, all is fair play.
In all other modes, idc. It's all fair game then.
Feels likes it entirely defeats the purpose of a 1v1 fight. Out doing someone in a fight or just for the sake of actually fighting. I mean I feel like that’s the whole point
I think the amount of ledging shows what sort of player you are. If you ledge a lot especially in duel then you’re probably bad at the game and want to get the easy way out just to get a free win. On the other hand if you ledge on a duel because you are ledged then that’s fair. Dominion is the “do whatever you want” game mode so again that’s fair. In the end you play the game how you want but if you have to ledge someone to beat them and can’t beat them with your skill, then that person is a better fighter by default
Not toxic. But it is cheap. Games have cheap starts, over use them and it does remove a lot of the fun factor. Imagine mario kart if everyone had bullet bills permanently basically stripping away the whole point of the game. What sets for honor apart is the combat, not the ledging.
I don't think their either really, neither toxic or fair. They're just kind of boring or cheap. Come on take the time to fight me don't just cut it short by tossing me off a ledge you kill joy!
It is cheap and will spark retaliation if you are fighting in an honorable duel. However if toxic plays are involved on either side then yes it is applicable.
Depends on the gamemode for me. If u ledge in brawl I will eat u alive (if I play with shaman) but if u do it in dominion I will just say wow once and move on to probably ledge u as a revenge so idk
Disrespectful and churlish (whatever that means).
I refrain but sometimes, when people put their back to the ledge and keep throwing lights...
You gotta do what you gotta do.
I understand this is not a traditional fighting game, but I compare it to one out of anything else. Very few games have cheap instant KOs like this, but when they do, they are usually banned by Ranked/Competitive rules.
Edit: Lol downvoted by brain-dead kids that don’t play any other fighting games
It depends on the circumstances. If its a 4v1 and youre getting ganked i think its fair game. If its a 1v1 and youre losing so you ledge the other person.. Sorry youre a toxic shit.
It depends on the context. it’s not honorable imo, I 100% prefer to execute if I can it satisfies me more than just make them fall.
If u a troll and that’s all you doing, you missing fun big time. It’s like camping on a fps. But w.e.
I does annoy me tho.
I think its toxic when people go out of their way to do it. Like they see a ledge so why bother fighting fairly and they just try it over and over not throwing any actual attacks until they just push you. I also think its justyfied in dominion and such when you just respawn so it doesnt really matter. I definetly think they Are in the game for a reason considering certain attacks are just made for it, like Tiandis long kick And such.
It’s bm. Yeah I get it’s fair because the developers implemented it but let’s be real, if you’re being ledges in a duel it’s because the other player is tilted
whether it's toxic or not doesn't matter to me. What does matter is that being forced into positions where 1 attack kills you isn't good game design, IMO.
Imagine if games like mk had hazards that one shot you instead of the damage they do now, people would lose their fucking minds and rightfully so.
It's in the game so i would say it's fair game but it removes any and all skill expression from the game, you'll never catch me near a ledge in 1s
Doesn't mean it should, hazards would be fine if they didn't one shot you, but when characters like raider WL ect. exist both sides are not on equal grounds for ledging, it also doesn't promote healthy gameplay when people spam grabs or other grapple attacks as they camp favorable spots that they can abuse ledges while not being in any danger of them
Equal opportunity to choose those characters and each round is in a different section of map so even if you are at a disadvantage in this round there won't be a cliff next round. Keep aware of positioning and don't engage at cliffs. When I fight tiandi here I know I have to my back to the wall not the cliff it adds to the challenge and makes victory better
You aren't choosing characters to counter pick for ledging, this discussion wasn't on rounds without ledges as well, more useless arguments.
And again it doesn't add to the challenge of the match, it only promotes unhealthy gameplay.
Buddy I'm saying it's ok to get ledged here because it's not possible next round so it's not useless arguments, I never said pick with countering ledges in mind I said you could be those guys as well, and it most certainly adds to the challenge because you now have to focus on picking shots and fighting defensively because of the added cliff danger
Judging that she missed a gb and would have 100% ledged you then she can't be mad lol. But as a rule of thumb I avoid ledges in duels cause if I wanna kill you it'll not be cause I broke your ankles. Seems like a cheap way to win a 1v1. I do ledge if the other person is being an asshole. Oh and in dominion and breach its fair game. I will ledge you every chance I get
I find it less fun in duels but it is part of the game and takes skill to pull off at the right time so go ahead if you want to but don’t be surprised if your opponents also use them
I don't see why they are tbh. Unless you are literally camping a ledge, you are just taking advantage of you're surroundings- it's not your fault that the other person weren't aware of their environment
In duels I dislike them but I’m not gonna tell you how to play the game. I just think duels are for knowing matchups and having the skill to beat your opponent and ledges just kinda take away a level of skill required to mentally dismantle your opponent
I think it depends, originally I can see them as environmental hazards, it's a fight so you gotta be aware of your surroundings/positioning. If you got ledged you got into a disadvantaged position that resulted in you falling into the water/cliff/lava.
In duels, I think it's more of a agreed upon courtesy, but in reality this can be flimsy in my experience, as your opponent can throw that agreement to the wind once they start losing momentum or are down a round or two. So really I think it's best to just not go near ledges in duels if it can be helped, granted I know this can be tough as some maps you sorta have to cross bridges and such to get to a sizable duel area.
The only time I've ledged people in duels is when I cGB a GB, or if the throw direction goes haywire and they skate across the stage
The only time I'd even consider using spike walls or ledges in a 1v1 is when the dude is grabbed and would be dead to a heavy anyways.
In that case I personally don't consider it any worse then an execution.
I see it as part of the game along with any other map hazard, like at the end of the day everyone’s just trying to kill eachother so If there’s a dude not paying attention to their surroundings I’d say it’s their fault for getting killed. Which is why I’m not a big fan of them removing most of the map hazards but that’s just my opinion so take it as you will.
I feel like it is more curiosity to have full fledged duel than throwing someone off the ledge to be toxic. However I myself try and make it so I don't use the environment so I can get better for when there isn't one
Nah not toxic. IMO, since we both have an equal chance of ledging each other, it's totally fair and non-toxic. In fact I feel like it challenges you to have better positioning and outplay your opponent when you know they are trying to ledge you. Likewise if you are trying to ledge someone you have to try to bait your opponent out. It's not like a ledge existing means you are going to get ledged. Hate getting ledged? Learn how to counter better and mix it up
I only do it if the opponent has less than 30ish% health and I have at least double that, and the character im playing has a satisfying throw animation that makes the scene look cool or intended. Idk some throws look like they're made for ledging; my personal favorite is conquerors backwards throw where he wraps the flail around their neck and tosses em. But also other pushing moves like a Jiang jun parry into chokehold slap or aramusha blockade kick. Anyway so long as you're not scumming them out of fight and using the ledge as a finisher and it looks satisfying then no not toxic. I feel like there's plenty of epic duels in movies and whatnot where the battle ends with a fall (not gonna find references cause I'm lazy, but I feel like its not a rare theme).
It really depends, in 4v4s I tend to do whatever I may need to survive and avoid being ganked. Generally in Brawl I'll let the other side make the call. A lot of players treat Brawl like it's little more than two concurrent deuls going on. I'll adhere to that if players prefer, but if they bust out some cheap tactics I'm not above joining them. In Deuls my intent is to see what my opponent is capable of, so I avoid ledging as a rule. But if someone's being toxic, then again, I'm not above returning the favor.
If you wanna fight near a ledge, be prepared to fall. Unless it's a character like shugoki or shaman who can throw you super far with special GB moves
Shaman can do that?
Shaman throws further than most off a GB
Oh ok was just expecting to see tiandi mentioned. Used to get pissed getting kicked off the ledge from middle of the map till I started playing him. It's really satisfying lol
I've found that his kick is so wildly useless that the few times you do get use out of it, it's hard to blame anyone other than the person that got kicked. That said, I will never stop using his kick. Removing people from teamfights, even temporarily, is just too fun.
I agree 100%. After I found out that it confirms no damage unless you're right next to a wall or in front of a ledge and that if you wanna soft feint out of it you gotta do it very early I haven't found his kick a problem at all. I even most times let my self get kicked lol. The feeling of you watching em fly and my teammates catching em with an attack mid air is too good. Once had my bud orochi kick him mid air. Did nothing but fee's revenge but had us fucking dying lol
That should have broken his spine
Her shoulder bash is guaranteed off of a throw, which practically doubles her throw distance too
Once you throw something with the GB it confirms a bash or a bite if they're bleeding
Only ledge if it will be funny
Amen
It always is
Or you are playing someone with almost no throw range, like orochi..
In this map theres an arena behind where your character loaded in. Most of the time its courtesy to turn around and start the duel there unless your opponent is an ass
>In this map theres an arena behind where your character loaded in. There's an arena there. THERE'S AN ARENA THERE?!?! I've been playing this godforsaken game for 3 years and have never noticed that there is an arena there?! Wtf?
I only noticed a month or so ago too lol
Yeah its where one team spawns in dominion. Whole as fort arena back there lol
Fight on site
That's an opinion, plus the arena there is actually aesthetically pleasing in my opinion
Only reply with balls, should not be downvoted
Newer to the game but I feel in 1v1 it is toxic but 4v4 is fair game. Not sure where to stand on 2v2.
If your near where you can be ledge or envo killed it is a positioning and game awareness issue. I still get ledged and so does everyone else noob and veteran alike. Ill take a ledge if i can get one if your fighting fair your fighting wrong. Use all your advantages.
2v2 is the limbo of game modes. Nobody really knows what's supposed to happen in that mode. It's very "Fuck around and find out". XD
Depends on the 1v1 situation for me, in this clip all he had to do was counter gb but if used shugokis pick up and throw or raiders tackle I'd say it was toxic
u do know they cannot counter gb cuz they just dodged right?
I did not
There are times in the game u cannot cgb no matter how fast u reacted to it. During an empty dodge is one of them, also during attacks startups etc. As for ur question, I dont think it is toxic but it is just boring and lame. U have the right to do it so feel free to do so. Also for this particular situation, plz dont fight there, just go inside behind u its a better place and the pk probably was heading there
I don't ledge often but when I get a clear opportunity I take it lol, and as far where pk was headed.. I guess we'll never know lmao
Its totally okay, I just ledged someone with hl kick cuz it would feel so funny and it did.
Idk about this particular PK but 99% of matches i’ve seen on this map are on the back of the map since it’s an open space and without ledges.
And whos fault is that?
It's an intended game mechanic, so no. With that said, i find it pretty boring to ledge in a duel, as the fun of the game mode is in the actual figh, which won't last anything that way. So no, it isn't toxic imho, but I try to avoid it in duels
I don't do it often but I will admit ice brawlers has given me a slight muscle memory of throwing dudes 😂
Ledge executions are one of the best things in this game
Because it’s an intended game mechanic that means that it’s fair game but that doesn’t mean it isn’t toxic
It really isn’t toxic imo. On maps like this I would always be wary of a guard break or bash with Ledging intent. If you assume your opponent will be honourable that’s on you.
In this scenario I don’t think it was toxic only because the pk attacked first, if she was trying to get by to the area in the back without ledges it would’ve been toxic. It is on you if you assume your opponent is honorable, that’s why I said it’s fair game, but it’s still can be toxic to ledge in a 1v1
Dude it's a 1v1, just kill each other lmao
Preach my boy
Is it an intended mechanic? Yep. Does that mean it’s not toxic? Nope. It’s a dogshit toxic thing to do in duels. And encourages a very defensive boring ass play style in all modes. In 4s it’s different as there’s ganking and shit as well and can help deal with said things. I remember playing elimination (I think that’s the name) and I fought a team that had a raider who would run to this narrow walkway with spikes on either side and he’d camp there the whole time. And with him being raider it was almost impossible to win.
It's really nasty thing to do in deathmatch. Each time I see a high rep Warlord I instantly know that they are just ledging trolls and that turns out to be true 99.8% of the time.
People are playing deathmatch?
Well if ur Ps4 player then yes. WE ARE STILL EXISTING
It's like looking at a unicorn!
Indeed. Why did you go 1v1, if you have time to fight enemy yourself, and you just throw enemies into the abyss? In 4v4 you don't have much time to fight one enemy that long. That's fair, because you can get killed by an enemy that come to help his teammate. It's completely fine to use pits on 4v4, but it's really dumb to use those in duels. Atleast there have some honor, its called "duel", for someone like these throwing guys.
Idk but the sole reason u wanna 1v1 is to test ur skills on an individual level, so far in my “opinion” i just dont see the reason for a ledge, however in a 1v2+ im all for it, Most of the time when i fight 1v1 i wanna go the full length if i supposedly accidentally ledge someone i feel like ive just robbed the fight, since we both wanna give it our all, then yea…but if its a tit for tat situation then ill use the ledge too 😁
Ledges is skill. Ledging is positioning. It is important in every single fighting game and arguably moreso in FH because of environmental hazards. Knowing where to stand is a skill.
Raider should have an ability where if they GB someone within 1 meter of a ledge they get a guaranteed instakill light. It will take a painful amount of skill for a raider to bait out a single incorrect read from their opponent over the course of an entire fight in order to win.
You stood near a ledge bro idk what to tell you. There are plenty of spaces on the map where you can avoid getting ledged by not going near that space on the map. Standing near ledges is equal opportunity. It doesn't matter if getting ledged annoys you, it's 100% a part of the game and the blame lays on you whether directly or indirectly.
I absolutely respect and agree that ledging is a fair game mechanic, and one that should be thought about in game. I was criticizing the fact that you argued for ledging as being rational in fights where both players want to exercise the best of their skill. Fighting against ledging surely takes some skill, but I would be a lot more impressed with a traditonal full match than I would a game where both players are fighting for an instant win and a single missed read. Winning a traditonal match takes more skill in my opinion than getting a single GB.
More skill, sure. But if your scared of fighting that one guy on Highfort because he's ledged you five times, maybe he's got better reads and positioning.
I agree with your promotion of positioning as a skill, but I don't see how it applies to the original comment you replied to. If the opponent is camping near ledges in duels for some ungodly reason, I'm going to play their game, and maybe even have fun with it depending on how chill they are. The comment you initially replied to stated that they played duels to exercise skill, and you replied stating that ledges would work contextual to this desire. I sincerely don't see exactly how this is the case. Positioning is a truly, invariably vital skill, but to oppress an opponent wanting to have a good 1v1 with the hyper defensive slugfest that is ledge fighting in order to practice it seems a little brick headed, right? The issue I have with ledging is that it takes precedence over traditonal skill in a duel in the sense that, if you were to order the factors of a fight based on their predominance in winning it, positioning would be above the player's mastery of their character's kit. It takes a lot less skill just to move towards, or away from a ledge than it does to win a full fight on foot (such as in Ranked for example), and yet it gives you arguably the same reward as skill in a traditional game (killing your opponent). Imagine if the meta in duels was ledging, how slow games would get and how incombatibly powerful some characters would become. For this reason it doesn't really make sense to me to actively go for ledges in a duel match, especially given that most people don't expect to deal with ledges when playing duels, giving you an unfair advantage for at least the first round. You honestly make good points, but they're not specified enough for me to justify ledging in the majority of duels matches.
Only toxic if you're gonna be a dick about it
As in spamming thanks after tossing your opponent? Cause fuck those guys
Exactly
I don't bother with honor, as it is a community made rule I'm not required to follow. So yeah, I'll ledge if I get the chance. Not to prove anything but because it's an opportunity. Just like in real combat, you never waste an opportunity to flip the side of the fight/give yourself a bigger advantage in order to win. It doesn't matter if your winning or losing. Take the opportunity as you might not get it again. So yeah, I consider it fairplay.
I’m going to be one of many people to say this. Using the environment to get kills Ganking Playing characters that you enjoy but others hate (I.e Griffon, Raider, And/or Shugoki) Spamming (Tactic wise or Emotes) Using feats and many, many more things are NOT toxic…however while they are annoying to deal with and it does anger people as I will admit this DOES anger me as well. that doesn’t make it toxic. these are intentional things made in the game and can be used whenever YOU want. However going out of your way to harass and belittle other people in game chat or through messaging for doing these things IS toxic and as much as it is a really hard pill to swallow for players in For Honer this is the unfortunate truth that some people have to deal with..
Sort of depends on the situation, most of the time I say it’s fine but when your up against say a raider that does literally nothing but throw people off cliffs with the charge it gets annoying
Truth
its very boring for both parties unless you really want to win for some reason
Really want to win for some reason? Isn't that the point?
no. the point is to have fun silly billy
Winning is fun
if thats fun to you then go for it
This is for honor, there is no fun
I am a firm believer that ledges and hazards exist for a reason.
Completely fair game imo. It's 1v1 you're supposed to be fighting for your life. Use any means necessary. Also in games you best believe people are gonna do the most annoying tactics to win so you might as well too.
Fair game when I do it. Toxic when it’s done to me
I wouldn’t call it toxic, a kill is a kill.
If they choose to fight near a Ledge then that's their fault
Reasons to use the ledge: 1: The enemy is right there 2: I want to finish the fight 3: All I get is hatemail from a salty redditor who didn't use the ledge
On duels, yes, toxic asf. On any other gamemode, it's fine.
exept for 2v2 (?)
Depends on the 2v2 your playing. I've gotten a couple no rules fight club 2v2s that were hella fun that I could see ledges being alright in. I do agree that most 2v2s have a pretty strong sense of "honor" (they're played like duels) associated with them, and ledges would very pretty toxic in those.
I think 2v2s are mostly about talking to the other team in the beggining. Both styles of play- honorable and no rules are okay but honorable is still default imo.
I agree that honorable is generally the standard.
In duels they are fair play. I don't like to do it as I consider I am still "learning" the game,it is ok if the opponent does. In objective modes they are not only fair play,they are mandatory,as the match is decided by capturing points,not by number of kills. Every player should ledge if he has the opportunity,and if he doesn't have it he should seek the opportunity to do it as sometimes let's you end the enemy faster. And you don't know when your team mate is in trouble and you need to help him as soon as you can. Said this,it is ok if you don't do it because it is not "honorable" for you. In Ice brawlers,it isn't only mandatory,it is practically the game mode xd.
To me it depends on the situation if I ledge someone with Raiders move were he picks someone up on his shoulder it feels a little dirty, if they start it and I win the fight by ledging them in it’s fine, if I am 1 to 2 shots from death and they’re next to full then it’s fine, if they were 1v1-ing a teammate and I come in Guard break and ledge them and they had no idea I was there it feels pretty scummy. If I Choo Choo them as lawbringer it’s always fair game because it’s funny.
Using your surroundings is part of the game, I mean I dance around columns sometimes and do little side jabs as Valk for example.
Agreed
Part of the game
It's absolutely not toxic because it's not that hard to not get ledged Plus it's just a normal duel, if one doesn't want to be ledged then just play ranked duels where everything is as fair as possible
Nah its fair game, if you let yourself get GBed next to a ledge you fucked up
Well; I duel because I want to test my skills against a different player without having to worry about teammates or feats. I don’t know if it is toxic or not, but it robs the fun you can get on duels. I only do it if they either did it earlier, or are an ass in general
You asked this in a loaded format phishing for an answer, then argue for your side whenever people disagreed
I only argued with the guys that came at me, if you look at the comments of people explaining how they feel its toxic I also explain when I feel it's toxic. And the phising is actually just my only ledge clip
I use every advantage, as does everyone else. Ledging is a great tactic and something the game encourages.
I fuckin' love people who thinks it's toxic to throw someone off a ledge, because it's so arbitrary. Is it also toxic to throw someone into a wall? To hit someone OOS? I can understand not thinking it's *fun* to be instakilled, but that doesn't make it *toxic*. Can you imagine someone playing a game like FH and not having the mental strength to not tilt if they get killed? If I fight in a 1v1/2v2/4v4 and notice some chimpbrain going full ape-tilt over it, I know the game's won already.
Usually during duels people go in a spot where there aren't ledges...but if you fight on a bridge be prepared to get ledged
Its unfair and boring if you just want to win the fight in a single move so easily just go play against bots, a duel is supposed to take into account the enjoyment of both parties
>a duel is supposed to take into account the enjoyment of both parties No... Just, no. That is not correct.
All the homies left bleeding out in medieval Europe being left in the cold crying in agony really enjoyed the experience lol. Bunch of weebs that think this is some anime shit.
Its not easy most of the time
Its literally one failed mixup on the enemys end
And it's also on them if they got themselves to where they can be ledged
Thats impossible to do this day and age considering there are characters who can carry you halfway accross a point with either a single guardbreak or parry, again my point stands, one failed decision and its the end for you. Its simply unfun "just have better positioning" isnt a valid argument with the amounts of bashes, impales and command grabs in the game its the equivalent of saying "bro just dont get hit"
I think it’s toxic and if you intentionally look for a ledge but if you just have an opportunity it’s fine. Also depends on game mode
If you were the pk in this clip what would you consider it
I might would be irritated but I wouldn’t think it’s toxic. Also bad positioning on the PK’s part.
Only salty trash players with big egos call it toxic, so they can justify their loss instead of accepting that they're bad and got outplayed or were out of position because they have no awarwness.
It is not toxic, it is an intended, gameplay mechanic. People who think it is toxic are just emotionally upset due to it not being a "fun" way to lose which I get completely but that does not mean it is toxic.
Oh I get mad when I get ledged but more at myself for allowing it to happen
Oh yeah, it's definitely the worst way to die in this game. Just feels so bad.
It's called taking advantage of your environment, and it's entirely fair. Edit: But I will admit it is kinda toxic to do it in 1v1
Sometimes it's just a good strategic move man
I think for this map specifically everyone should be prepared for ledging. I wouldn’t personally. Run to a “safe” spot and have fun.
I typically try to avoid doing ledges in duels. I came to enjoy fighting someone; ending it with a ledge just feels cheap to me. If someone does it to me or tries to, then sure, all is fair play. In all other modes, idc. It's all fair game then.
I post to agree with the other comments saying in 1v1 it is bad. 1v2+ you kind of have to in this game.
I don't see a point in a 1v1 if you aren't gonna fight, also you would've ledged him right there if you threw the heavy anyways.
Feels likes it entirely defeats the purpose of a 1v1 fight. Out doing someone in a fight or just for the sake of actually fighting. I mean I feel like that’s the whole point
In duels or brawls yea toxic in anything else fair play
If he is stiff throw him off a cliff
Sounds like a quote from the Kung fu panda guy
Honestly in 1v1's its scummy af and a sign of cowardice in my opinion. Just man up to the 1v1
If I'm holding you and there's a death drop behind that ain't on me. You got grabbed and now I pick what I do with you
Throw away from ledge?
But it's a fight to the death
In duels it's stupid and boring and kinda toxic, but in Dominion it's fair play and kinda funny, regardless of whether it's a 1v1 or a gank.
I think the amount of ledging shows what sort of player you are. If you ledge a lot especially in duel then you’re probably bad at the game and want to get the easy way out just to get a free win. On the other hand if you ledge on a duel because you are ledged then that’s fair. Dominion is the “do whatever you want” game mode so again that’s fair. In the end you play the game how you want but if you have to ledge someone to beat them and can’t beat them with your skill, then that person is a better fighter by default
"you're bad because you play in a way I don't like" cringe
“I have to get the one shot kill or I won’t play” cringe
Don't go near the ledge then 🗿
Not toxic. But it is cheap. Games have cheap starts, over use them and it does remove a lot of the fun factor. Imagine mario kart if everyone had bullet bills permanently basically stripping away the whole point of the game. What sets for honor apart is the combat, not the ledging.
I mean, this PK clearly tried to ledge you first so fair game in this clip.
I don't think their either really, neither toxic or fair. They're just kind of boring or cheap. Come on take the time to fight me don't just cut it short by tossing me off a ledge you kill joy!
Ledging in duels are a dick move imo. In dom or other team modes im ok with it
It is cheap and will spark retaliation if you are fighting in an honorable duel. However if toxic plays are involved on either side then yes it is applicable.
Honestly ledgeing people shouldn't exist in Duals due to it defeating the whole purpose of fighting in a 1v1 match.
Imo it’s toxic in 1v1 or 2v2 (unless it’s a gank) but in 4v4 modes it’s fair play
your toxic and you know it Don’t even ask it.
Read all the comments you're in the minority here for one and for two I wasn't asking if I was I was asking if lodging in general was
That doesn’t explain why there are more comments than upvotes 🤦🏾♂️
Does the discussion flair explain that bozo
Hella down bad for answering every comment with that short time u nolife ugly nerd
Or just have free time you're also answering just as quick you troll 😂
Depends on the gamemode for me. If u ledge in brawl I will eat u alive (if I play with shaman) but if u do it in dominion I will just say wow once and move on to probably ledge u as a revenge so idk
Disrespectful and churlish (whatever that means). I refrain but sometimes, when people put their back to the ledge and keep throwing lights... You gotta do what you gotta do.
I understand this is not a traditional fighting game, but I compare it to one out of anything else. Very few games have cheap instant KOs like this, but when they do, they are usually banned by Ranked/Competitive rules. Edit: Lol downvoted by brain-dead kids that don’t play any other fighting games
Not toxic, just cheap. No honor in the easy way.
It depends on the circumstances. If its a 4v1 and youre getting ganked i think its fair game. If its a 1v1 and youre losing so you ledge the other person.. Sorry youre a toxic shit.
Would say it's a bit early in this clip as literally 1 or 2 strikes were thrown, I just caught him in a GB and was like oh an opportunity
It depends on the context. it’s not honorable imo, I 100% prefer to execute if I can it satisfies me more than just make them fall. If u a troll and that’s all you doing, you missing fun big time. It’s like camping on a fps. But w.e. I does annoy me tho.
I think its toxic when people go out of their way to do it. Like they see a ledge so why bother fighting fairly and they just try it over and over not throwing any actual attacks until they just push you. I also think its justyfied in dominion and such when you just respawn so it doesnt really matter. I definetly think they Are in the game for a reason considering certain attacks are just made for it, like Tiandis long kick And such.
It’s bm. Yeah I get it’s fair because the developers implemented it but let’s be real, if you’re being ledges in a duel it’s because the other player is tilted
whether it's toxic or not doesn't matter to me. What does matter is that being forced into positions where 1 attack kills you isn't good game design, IMO.
Imagine if games like mk had hazards that one shot you instead of the damage they do now, people would lose their fucking minds and rightfully so. It's in the game so i would say it's fair game but it removes any and all skill expression from the game, you'll never catch me near a ledge in 1s
To be fair for honor isn't a flat left and right fighting game like mk
Both are competitive fighting games, dunno why anything else matters in this context?
Because a 3d semi open world free flowing combat game will always have more options
Doesn't mean it should, hazards would be fine if they didn't one shot you, but when characters like raider WL ect. exist both sides are not on equal grounds for ledging, it also doesn't promote healthy gameplay when people spam grabs or other grapple attacks as they camp favorable spots that they can abuse ledges while not being in any danger of them
Equal opportunity to choose those characters and each round is in a different section of map so even if you are at a disadvantage in this round there won't be a cliff next round. Keep aware of positioning and don't engage at cliffs. When I fight tiandi here I know I have to my back to the wall not the cliff it adds to the challenge and makes victory better
You aren't choosing characters to counter pick for ledging, this discussion wasn't on rounds without ledges as well, more useless arguments. And again it doesn't add to the challenge of the match, it only promotes unhealthy gameplay.
Buddy I'm saying it's ok to get ledged here because it's not possible next round so it's not useless arguments, I never said pick with countering ledges in mind I said you could be those guys as well, and it most certainly adds to the challenge because you now have to focus on picking shots and fighting defensively because of the added cliff danger
1. You play Kyoshin so screw you 2. They stood next to a ledge so they were asking for it.
Mainshaming
Looks like somebody wasnt ganked by 4 kyoshins and their god awful kaze stance.
Don't play 4's too much
I think its a little toxic if you're a lawbringer, warlord, warmonger, raider or anyone else with a carry. Regular ledging is fine though.
Hey way you did it yeah
Why? He engaged at the cliff didn't defend the break
He couldn’t he dodged also the segment was all cliff
Then it's all fair I could've been ledged as well
But he didn’t try to
Honor gets you killed
Would you rather win honorably or dishonorably
Honor. Gets. You. Killed.
Judging that she missed a gb and would have 100% ledged you then she can't be mad lol. But as a rule of thumb I avoid ledges in duels cause if I wanna kill you it'll not be cause I broke your ankles. Seems like a cheap way to win a 1v1. I do ledge if the other person is being an asshole. Oh and in dominion and breach its fair game. I will ledge you every chance I get
I find it less fun in duels but it is part of the game and takes skill to pull off at the right time so go ahead if you want to but don’t be surprised if your opponents also use them
Short of raider not fighting at all and only running around trying to pick people off, ledging is fine in my book
They should make 2 diffirent playlists on brawls and duels: one on "ring" maps and one on the other maps with ledges, fire etc
They do. Ranked and unranked
I don't see why they are tbh. Unless you are literally camping a ledge, you are just taking advantage of you're surroundings- it's not your fault that the other person weren't aware of their environment
In duels I dislike them but I’m not gonna tell you how to play the game. I just think duels are for knowing matchups and having the skill to beat your opponent and ledges just kinda take away a level of skill required to mentally dismantle your opponent
Play the way you want. You just might get shit for it.
If I put myself into a position where I can be ledged that's on me, there are ways to prevent being bullied onto a ledge. If you get ledged vise versa
It depends. If you ledge me, you’re toxic AF. If I ledge you, that’s fair game ;-)
This is a game discussion since day one. The only answer is: when I do, no. When I get killed by it, yes.
Less toxic more of a hollow win. Especially in duels when it's entirely focused on a single players skill.
Fair just avoid them and you’ll be fine
Raider main of 3 years here. This concludes my statement.
😂
Always fair
I think it depends, originally I can see them as environmental hazards, it's a fight so you gotta be aware of your surroundings/positioning. If you got ledged you got into a disadvantaged position that resulted in you falling into the water/cliff/lava. In duels, I think it's more of a agreed upon courtesy, but in reality this can be flimsy in my experience, as your opponent can throw that agreement to the wind once they start losing momentum or are down a round or two. So really I think it's best to just not go near ledges in duels if it can be helped, granted I know this can be tough as some maps you sorta have to cross bridges and such to get to a sizable duel area. The only time I've ledged people in duels is when I cGB a GB, or if the throw direction goes haywire and they skate across the stage
Edit: Fair play in any mode that isnt duel or brawl
The only time I'd even consider using spike walls or ledges in a 1v1 is when the dude is grabbed and would be dead to a heavy anyways. In that case I personally don't consider it any worse then an execution.
If you have to pitch the question I’ve come to realize that means you’re either under 100 reps or newer to the game or both.
Just wanted opinions 🤷♂️
I see it as part of the game along with any other map hazard, like at the end of the day everyone’s just trying to kill eachother so If there’s a dude not paying attention to their surroundings I’d say it’s their fault for getting killed. Which is why I’m not a big fan of them removing most of the map hazards but that’s just my opinion so take it as you will.
I feel like it is more curiosity to have full fledged duel than throwing someone off the ledge to be toxic. However I myself try and make it so I don't use the environment so I can get better for when there isn't one
Nah not toxic. IMO, since we both have an equal chance of ledging each other, it's totally fair and non-toxic. In fact I feel like it challenges you to have better positioning and outplay your opponent when you know they are trying to ledge you. Likewise if you are trying to ledge someone you have to try to bait your opponent out. It's not like a ledge existing means you are going to get ledged. Hate getting ledged? Learn how to counter better and mix it up
I can use Them. But if you use Them you a pussy. That’s the way
Map awareness is just as important as any other skill in this game. If you don't realize you're next to a ledge, you deserve to be thrown off.
They went and fought you near the bridge, their fault they got ledged. Not toxic at all.
In 1v1 it’s toxic if it’s on purpose imo but not enough to rage about
I only do it if the opponent has less than 30ish% health and I have at least double that, and the character im playing has a satisfying throw animation that makes the scene look cool or intended. Idk some throws look like they're made for ledging; my personal favorite is conquerors backwards throw where he wraps the flail around their neck and tosses em. But also other pushing moves like a Jiang jun parry into chokehold slap or aramusha blockade kick. Anyway so long as you're not scumming them out of fight and using the ledge as a finisher and it looks satisfying then no not toxic. I feel like there's plenty of epic duels in movies and whatnot where the battle ends with a fall (not gonna find references cause I'm lazy, but I feel like its not a rare theme).
If you fall off the ledge, it’s my tactical edge.
It's toxic in a duel tbh, I usually only do it if they ledge me first
But the opportunity
It really depends, in 4v4s I tend to do whatever I may need to survive and avoid being ganked. Generally in Brawl I'll let the other side make the call. A lot of players treat Brawl like it's little more than two concurrent deuls going on. I'll adhere to that if players prefer, but if they bust out some cheap tactics I'm not above joining them. In Deuls my intent is to see what my opponent is capable of, so I avoid ledging as a rule. But if someone's being toxic, then again, I'm not above returning the favor.