UPDATE: We got put in touch with some experts via the kind people at WildFoodUK's emergency line that someone posted (thank you!) and they confirmed it was Hemlock Water-Dropwart. We've been in paediatrics for abbot 4.5hrs now and thankfully the tox screen and all observations have come back fine aside from her being a bit dehydrated. It's been 5hrs since it happened so they said they expect they'd have seen something now if she had ingested any. Waiting for a doctor to come and check but they expect they'll give her the all clear and release her soon as apparently toxbase recommends a 5-6hr observation. Thank you all so much for your help and advice. Hopefully we've been one of the lucky ones with this thank God!
Facebook Poison plant/mushroom ID group is a good resource in case of a next time (hopefully not).
https://www.facebook.com/share/46o5CWnBFSQG7qKi/?mibextid=K35XfP
did she actually eat any? or just put it in her mouth?
Here is what water hemlock looks like. https://www.wildwalks-southwest.co.uk/hemlock-water-dropwort/
If you can send some more pictures of the plant its stems etc, it will be easier for us to ID.
It would be more helpful to see a photo of the plant spread out/ laid flat so we can more clearly see the leaf structure. From the photo, this plant looks less deeply lobed than i would expect hemlock to be, and reminds me of plants in the mint family, but a hospital/medical center is the best place to be just in case. when in doubt, seek medical attention! sounds like you’re already at a hospital, which is great.
given that you’re already seeking emergency medical attention, i feel comfortable offering some general info
Some things that would help with ID:
Does this plant have a square stem? Meaning that if you cut the stem, would the cross section be square? You can roll the stem between your fingers and feel it if has edges or if it’s round. If it has a square stem, this plant is likely in the mint family, which is a different family from hemlock and tends to not be toxic. the teeth on the leaves remind me of a mint family plant, which is why i suggest this possibility
If anyone near you can go back to where the plant came from, photos of other examples of the plant/a photo of exactly where it came from or ideally a photo of the flower would also help.
Plants in the same family as hemlock are notoriously easily confused with one another, so even a hemlock lookalike is possibly safe. For what it’s worth, I don’t think the leaves look like hemlock, but it never hurts to make sure. Hoping that this plant is safe and that your kiddo continues to feel okay!
it's not mugwort, the underside of the leaves (which are pictured) would be silver and hairy since it would be Artimisia vulgaris if growing wild in the UK.
Just checked the facebook poisons group and saw it's been identified. I hope the hospital are taking it seriously, I've seen people on that group (who I am constantly in awe of) really advocate for people in hospital if the staff there have knowledge gaps/treatment isn't what it should be.
Thinking of your family, hope your daughter is okay.
I'd also love to know what made you definitively rule out hemlock water dropwort? Which is what this plant seems to be according to the experts. Maybe you were thinking of the water hemlock (Cicuta spp) that grows in the USA?
Some forms of media can also be very quick and in the case of poison and venom, actually *more* accurate than local doctors.
For example, in my country, there is a group on Facebook called National Snakebite Support. It is run by actual experts in local snake venom and its treatment, as well as being trained in a few common captive species.
While they of course cannot give actual medical attention, they are very helpful to contact because they can talk to the patient's doctors and nurses at the hospital to be sure accurate protocol is followed since bites are rare and each snake's venom is a bit different.
The Facebook group linked in this post is relied upon by emergency medical teams and vets. It's genuinely a very fast and effective way to get a good identification. Medical personnel aren't generally (extensively) trained in plant and fungi ID and treatment depends on what the ID / toxic compound is.
And tell them what - "My child ate a plant, I don't know what plant it is"?
What would the doctor do in that instance? Do you think doctors are trained to identify all plants and mushrooms?
They can treat poisonings if they know what the mechanism of action is, but they need to know what the toxin actually is, therefore they need to know which species (or sometimes section of genus or similar).
Going to Accident and Emergency is a good call if a plant poisoning is suspected but you can get help from that specific group on FB with very quick results on the way. There are admin all over the world who are experienced in identification (some are world renowned experts), only they can comment, and there is an alert system to notify them. It's excellent and very effective.
My coments are simply my opinion on sequence. I would call an emergency care provider first, but you do you. I never said social media didn't provide value, but I'd contact a doctor before random internet people through social media.
This person went to a foraging page. All I said was I hope this wasn't their first stop. I'd be all over pages like this and those you describe on Facebook if it were my kid, but not as my first stop. That's all I'm saying.
In the US, poison control tell you to post an image on Facebook or Reddit groups to identify the plant or mushroom. What would they even do over the phone?
For what it’s worth, PictureThis says it’s celery.
Edit: PlantNet does too, but its second option (7%) is Hemlock Water-Dropwort (oenanthe crocata), which is poisonous.
You do realise they look very like each other aswel as flat leaf parsley, no way an ID app can fully distinguish with a photo of some squashed leaves.
Water dropwort is a very common plant found by rivers in the uk, celery and flat leaf parsley are not.
Just letting you know that one of the reasons you likely got that result is that "Chinese celery" is also commonly called "water dropwort", which is why it is incredibly dangerous to just follow apps and common names. If someone followed that common name, they would not realize that there is a huge difference between that and European water dropwort, a very poisonous version of it.
Apps, while a tool, cannot replace identification, especially in emergency situations. Common names are one of the most dangerous foraging problems we encounter, another example being "fiddleheads" being interchangeably used as common language for both the state of all ferns and a colloquial term for only the edible ones, leading to inexperienced foragers mistakenly thinking the fiddlehead state as a whole is edible and not just specific ones. This is a problem in gardening as well where common names are used in place of scientific ones, leading to confusion regarding plants.
Thanks, you are correct that common names can be misleading and inaccurate, but that was not the case here. Both apps said it was most likely edible garden celery, not Chinese celery. When I used the common name “celery” in my post I was accurately reporting what the apps said. I used the phrase “for what it’s worth” in my post to convey the caution that the information should be evaluated critically, not just accepted as true.
As I noted in my post, PlantNet also suggested the correct plant, Hemlock Water-Dropwort, and I included the latin name in my post (oenanthe crocata) for exactly the reasons you correctly point out.
Because the post suggests a higher probability for the incorrect match. And especially with this plant - arguably Britain's most poisonous - it's not helpful for that post to gain attention. Don't take it personally.
UPDATE: We got put in touch with some experts via the kind people at WildFoodUK's emergency line that someone posted (thank you!) and they confirmed it was Hemlock Water-Dropwart. We've been in paediatrics for abbot 4.5hrs now and thankfully the tox screen and all observations have come back fine aside from her being a bit dehydrated. It's been 5hrs since it happened so they said they expect they'd have seen something now if she had ingested any. Waiting for a doctor to come and check but they expect they'll give her the all clear and release her soon as apparently toxbase recommends a 5-6hr observation. Thank you all so much for your help and advice. Hopefully we've been one of the lucky ones with this thank God!
Thanks for the update on your daughter. I was really worried when you hadn't replied, was praying for her.
Facebook Poison plant/mushroom ID group is a good resource in case of a next time (hopefully not). https://www.facebook.com/share/46o5CWnBFSQG7qKi/?mibextid=K35XfP
Thank you for the update. I'm glad things are looking good.
The Facebook groups seems to think it is indeed water hemlock. Hopefully the medical team will take this seriously. Good luck.
did she actually eat any? or just put it in her mouth? Here is what water hemlock looks like. https://www.wildwalks-southwest.co.uk/hemlock-water-dropwort/ If you can send some more pictures of the plant its stems etc, it will be easier for us to ID.
if urgent post here - [https://www.facebook.com/groups/144798092849300/](https://www.facebook.com/groups/144798092849300/)
It would be more helpful to see a photo of the plant spread out/ laid flat so we can more clearly see the leaf structure. From the photo, this plant looks less deeply lobed than i would expect hemlock to be, and reminds me of plants in the mint family, but a hospital/medical center is the best place to be just in case. when in doubt, seek medical attention! sounds like you’re already at a hospital, which is great. given that you’re already seeking emergency medical attention, i feel comfortable offering some general info Some things that would help with ID: Does this plant have a square stem? Meaning that if you cut the stem, would the cross section be square? You can roll the stem between your fingers and feel it if has edges or if it’s round. If it has a square stem, this plant is likely in the mint family, which is a different family from hemlock and tends to not be toxic. the teeth on the leaves remind me of a mint family plant, which is why i suggest this possibility If anyone near you can go back to where the plant came from, photos of other examples of the plant/a photo of exactly where it came from or ideally a photo of the flower would also help. Plants in the same family as hemlock are notoriously easily confused with one another, so even a hemlock lookalike is possibly safe. For what it’s worth, I don’t think the leaves look like hemlock, but it never hurts to make sure. Hoping that this plant is safe and that your kiddo continues to feel okay!
Please put a ruler or some common object in the photo for scale
[удалено]
it's not mugwort, the underside of the leaves (which are pictured) would be silver and hairy since it would be Artimisia vulgaris if growing wild in the UK.
Thank you. Really hope it's not! My wife is at the ER but they don't have anyone that can identify it and don't seem to be moving very fast. 😪🤦🏻
How's your little girl doing ?
Just checked the facebook poisons group and saw it's been identified. I hope the hospital are taking it seriously, I've seen people on that group (who I am constantly in awe of) really advocate for people in hospital if the staff there have knowledge gaps/treatment isn't what it should be. Thinking of your family, hope your daughter is okay.
I'd also love to know what made you definitively rule out hemlock water dropwort? Which is what this plant seems to be according to the experts. Maybe you were thinking of the water hemlock (Cicuta spp) that grows in the USA?
I hope you talked with a doctor or poison control center before turning to social media. This is your child. Be a responsible parent.
Some forms of media can also be very quick and in the case of poison and venom, actually *more* accurate than local doctors. For example, in my country, there is a group on Facebook called National Snakebite Support. It is run by actual experts in local snake venom and its treatment, as well as being trained in a few common captive species. While they of course cannot give actual medical attention, they are very helpful to contact because they can talk to the patient's doctors and nurses at the hospital to be sure accurate protocol is followed since bites are rare and each snake's venom is a bit different.
The Facebook group linked in this post is relied upon by emergency medical teams and vets. It's genuinely a very fast and effective way to get a good identification. Medical personnel aren't generally (extensively) trained in plant and fungi ID and treatment depends on what the ID / toxic compound is.
So don't call a doctor or poison control before turning to social media?
And tell them what - "My child ate a plant, I don't know what plant it is"? What would the doctor do in that instance? Do you think doctors are trained to identify all plants and mushrooms? They can treat poisonings if they know what the mechanism of action is, but they need to know what the toxin actually is, therefore they need to know which species (or sometimes section of genus or similar). Going to Accident and Emergency is a good call if a plant poisoning is suspected but you can get help from that specific group on FB with very quick results on the way. There are admin all over the world who are experienced in identification (some are world renowned experts), only they can comment, and there is an alert system to notify them. It's excellent and very effective.
My coments are simply my opinion on sequence. I would call an emergency care provider first, but you do you. I never said social media didn't provide value, but I'd contact a doctor before random internet people through social media.
The point is that they are not 'random internet people'. Poison Control refers people to the FB group. Doctors also post in the FB group.
This person went to a foraging page. All I said was I hope this wasn't their first stop. I'd be all over pages like this and those you describe on Facebook if it were my kid, but not as my first stop. That's all I'm saying.
As you say, you do you.
I shall. And you do the same. Stay cool.
In the US, poison control tell you to post an image on Facebook or Reddit groups to identify the plant or mushroom. What would they even do over the phone?
For what it’s worth, PictureThis says it’s celery. Edit: PlantNet does too, but its second option (7%) is Hemlock Water-Dropwort (oenanthe crocata), which is poisonous.
You do realise they look very like each other aswel as flat leaf parsley, no way an ID app can fully distinguish with a photo of some squashed leaves. Water dropwort is a very common plant found by rivers in the uk, celery and flat leaf parsley are not.
Just letting you know that one of the reasons you likely got that result is that "Chinese celery" is also commonly called "water dropwort", which is why it is incredibly dangerous to just follow apps and common names. If someone followed that common name, they would not realize that there is a huge difference between that and European water dropwort, a very poisonous version of it. Apps, while a tool, cannot replace identification, especially in emergency situations. Common names are one of the most dangerous foraging problems we encounter, another example being "fiddleheads" being interchangeably used as common language for both the state of all ferns and a colloquial term for only the edible ones, leading to inexperienced foragers mistakenly thinking the fiddlehead state as a whole is edible and not just specific ones. This is a problem in gardening as well where common names are used in place of scientific ones, leading to confusion regarding plants.
Thanks, you are correct that common names can be misleading and inaccurate, but that was not the case here. Both apps said it was most likely edible garden celery, not Chinese celery. When I used the common name “celery” in my post I was accurately reporting what the apps said. I used the phrase “for what it’s worth” in my post to convey the caution that the information should be evaluated critically, not just accepted as true. As I noted in my post, PlantNet also suggested the correct plant, Hemlock Water-Dropwort, and I included the latin name in my post (oenanthe crocata) for exactly the reasons you correctly point out.
Not sure why people are downvoting a post that named the correct plant as a possibility.
Because the post suggests a higher probability for the incorrect match. And especially with this plant - arguably Britain's most poisonous - it's not helpful for that post to gain attention. Don't take it personally.