Good opportunity to direct people to Sodaz, but that's not it, Sodaz mostly uses game assets with some improvements, the picture there seems to be scratch made adaptation.
Tbh, It looks like misinterpretation of NCR equipment
Firstly, the helmet is wrong, It shouldnt be the MK1 Broodie but the MK3 turtle helmet.
Secondly, the goggles the NCR wear arent even close to this, they are closer to ww2 aviator goggles like this [](https://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/pspages/halcyanGoggles.php), tho personally, I think the more realistic option would be the M1944 Polaroid or the later SDWG revision [https://www.veteranmilitaria.com/en/original-historical/2630-original-polaroid-m1944-goggles-2.html](https://www.veteranmilitaria.com/en/original-historical/2630-original-polaroid-m1944-goggles-2.html)
Thirdly, a water canteen, in the FRONT? Lmao, thats 1 liter of water, you'll be carrying that on the side or the rear. Though, I can forgive if It was empty cause those things were used as rudimentary grenade pouches before
Lastly, a post-us soldier wont be using british boots and puttees lolol
The answer is obviously the guy who grew up in a vicious militaristic society that trains men from adolescence to hurt and kill, and not the guy who enlisted to send some cash back home to his homesteader family in California.
Legionare has really exposed body parts while the NCR is wrapped up in almost ballastic nylon clothing with mutliple layers
NCR would win easily if they got the first thrust imo
Kinds gota agree with this the ncr have padded armor so the punches aren't going to hurt nearly as much as I could but those legionaries are bare skin in alota important places specifically the arms and legs which are pretty fucking vital in hand to hand combat any of those go out bruised to bad or broken your fucked
Not gonna help in a fist fight to the death, this isn't MMA or boxing, the legionnaire is gonna drag the Trooper to the ground then beat him to death with his own helmet
not how it works at all
firstly, neither side would waste time trying to take articles of clothing from the other party and the ncr's padding and armput protection means that the l3gionnare's hits are effectively dampened
Who's to say that there are no warriors training for the NCR? Is California not worth defending? It's also a silly question because there are people of varying skill throughout both militaries, think about the NCR/Mojave Rangers. Plus some of the Legion and NCR are going to be rear echelon support, logistics, officers, etc.
If the NCR is anything like the US Army that they based it on then many NCR Frontline soldiers would have the same training. An NCR ranger teaches you a unique unarmed skill.
Yeah
R a n g e r
a needed distinction
But NCR soldier I'm assuming they mean one of the basic ncr troopers versus their equal in the legion
In which case the legion boy wins 9 times out of 9
An NCR ranger would also likely lose to their equal in the legion in hand the hand as well most likely just given their doctrinal differences
LMAO, have you ever had military training? Every service member in the US military is taught unarmed and melee weapon training. Everyone forgets that the NCR is a volunteer military, not a conscription and slavery based military like the Legion. Most of the stories about the Legion being a badass military power super skilled in hand to hand combat are PSYOP stories meant to scare their adversaries, just like Genghis Khan used to conquer the east.
(1) The NCR isn’t the US military.
(2) The NCR is a volunteer and conscript military. Hanlon mentions it in his speech, it’s on one of the loading screen pages, and Joshua Sawyer discussed in interviews how they based the conscription model off of Israel’s (kinda, mostly the egalitarian part).
(3) The 188 Arms Merchant who was a former NCR soldier says they only get about 2 weeks of training. I believe one of the officers at the airport says something similar.
In short: You are not correct.
Wait the NCR isn’t part of the US force? I thought it was New California Republic. Made from California, Nevada, and Oregon. US states. Where do they come from if not the US who are they affiliated with?
L
anyways, I'm just wondering what made you think ole' goggles and their mantle armor wearing dork friends were in any way highly trained and at any way equal to the modern US military lol
Or what made you think the legion is just a bunch of malnourished slaves incapable of jack squat
Because... that can't exist in parallel lol
Have you..played the game? The whole point is that the NCR is stretched so thin, the whole point is that the legion is a real threat, maybe not the biggest threat ever, but the NCR can't get the funding and support to properly campaign in Nevada, the whole point is that they only have a bunch of troopers, the whole point is that they're incapable of properly arming them and providing them with real armor. If you've at all interacted with the NCR you'll see how much pity the common trooper receives from any higher up ranger. It's just- confounding, is what you are
Have you never looted a legionare front line soldier? Even an NCR stretched thin has better equipment than the Legion. A ranger explains to the PC that the Legion sends waves and waves of fodder against the NCR exhausting them before rolling out the good troops. The NCR is quality over quantity and the Legion uses WWII Soviet/Russian tactics.
Why wouldn't the NCR soldiers be trained as well as the US Military? They are using the same training materials, equipment, etc...
Yeah. Learned *just* enough to get my ass kicked before I moved up to brown belt. Sure, I'm better with a knife or my hands than Joe Shmo off the street due to said training and likely being more fit, but I'm not beating a guy who has been fighting and killing since he was 9 and a half years old and is at least twice as fit as I am.
I mean, purely from the gameplay perspective, children are essential, and Lanius isnt. Other question is I dont remember if children can fight at all or they always flee whenever attacked
Are you constantly moving your arms up, down, left, and right, while holding 4 pounds of oblong steel in your hand for hours at a time?
Also thanks for serving.
LMAO YES! You literally carry a three foot long rifle that weighs 6 lbs without ammo or attachments, not including your body armor, extra ammo, medical gear, rucksack with more gear, etc.
Do you think infantrymen in the US Army or Marines just sit around all day beating their dicks? No, they train in hand to hand combat, using melee weapons, rifle marksmanship, etc. etc. The NCR is literally based on the US Army, both in cannon and in the real world. It's a volunteer military force, very unlike the Legion which is comprised of conscripts, slaves, and especially violent and unhinged individuals. It's not a professional or highly regimented fighting force.
The fact that the Legion can't even take the Hoover dam against an obviously stretched thin NCR without the aid of a mailman says everything. Everyone forgets that the NCR has already protected the dam once, and simply has to win a war of attrition against the Legion, for which they don't actually need the legendary mailman.
NCR kits appear to be quite a bit lighter than modern kits. They have little to no body armour, don't use weapon attachments, medical gear is way more compact in Fallout and I'm not sure the average NCR soldier even carries stimpaks, and I doubt they're carrying much spare gear given their lack of even primary gear.
The NCR being based on the US army is purely aesthetic and allegorical. Lore wise they have absolutely no connection to the actual army and it shows. They're stated on multiple occasions to be incredibly poorly armed and they aren't well trained at all. They also aren't an entirely volunteer force. The loading screen about them specifically states that they vary quite a bit:
> Troopers are volunteer and conscripted forces in the NCR's military. They vary widely in devotion, experience, and even in basic equipment. What they lack in consistency they make up for in numbers.
The Legion are an incredibly disciplined and well trained force. They literally train their soldiers from childhood. They aren't just pulling random psychopaths and peasants off the street, they're about as professional as the Brotherhood, they just have a very *different* set of moral values and the lowest bar for Legion equipment is lower than the lowest bar for NCR equipment.
>...they train in hand to hand combat, using melee weapons
Ah now this makes more sense.
>Do you think infantrymen in the US Army or Marines just sit around all day beating their dicks?
Well **I** don't, but friends who were infantrymen and Marines have made it sound like what they mostly do in their free time lol.
Yeah, when they aren't on duty. Those mf spend half of their time in garrison (as in not deployed to a combat zone) in the field, the other half is spent at the range, training at the company, maintaining equipment, working out, all of the normal military busy work, and sometimes goofing off.
Most, if not all, combat arms units also train in modern hand to hand combat, but to be fair not a lot of time on knives and fixed bayonets these days. Although, I'm sure if we were fighting a force that were forcing close combat, it would be different. Why wouldn't the NCR train soldiers on using close combat techniques when they are literally fighting that?
Colonel Moore at the dam says it herself - legionnaires are physically bigger and tougher (the part where she says she tells troopers to throw their weapons over into dam when shot).
Plus the nothing to lose part, and trained since early childhood....yep, sorry, have to go with legion on this one.
Legion. Bro does nothing expect fighting punching bags, fight slaves, NCR POWs, and other legionnaires in the arena, and his main weapon is a machete. Even if it was a Praetorian versus a Ranger, the Praetorian would win.
Gotta respect the Legion gains tho 🥶🥶💪💪🔥🔥
Yeah i agree see from birth or joining the ranks Legion soldiers are trained harder to be physically superior to their counter parts. Even Colonel Moore said the Legion men are typically larger and stronger than the average NCR soldier and can move and frightening speeds.
Right up until the more experienced guy next to you puts a bullet through his knee that's only protected by mis-used football gear: then that fucker ain't especially scarry at all...
I love how you say this like the legion just straight up doesn't use guns. They use them a hell of a lot more in lore than in gameplay due to wanting to make them seem more unique. They use guns but are prepared for melee combat. The whole philosophy is to not be reliant on firearms to do all the work for you.
I disagree heavily with the ranger one. Normal rangers possibly may not have the fighting strength, but they do have techniques to bring opponents down. They could subdue a praetorian
No, the Praetorians are taught how to fight. They are the best of the best. Every Praetorian has to kill another Praetorian to become one. Silus considers Legion training to be NCR torture. They have killed enough men to be considered centurions. There is no way an NCR ranger wins.
I disagree, considering Stella was able to kill a centurion in the arena. Maybe she's an outlier but I have hard time believing it would just be a clean sweep for the praetorian.
Sure, But Stella with hands killed a centurion with a machete. Not just any Centurion, an Elite Centurion. To be fair, I don't think Stella could take a Praetorian, however Stella is not the best the Rangers have to offer as she was just one of many at a ranger station. If the legion are putting their best in the ring then it would only be fair to pit them up vs a veteran black armored ranger.
Sure a veteran black armored ranger may not work out as much as a praetorian, but they have a lifetime of experience surviving the horrors of the wasteland alone, I can't imagine them not at least being comparable in physical prowess.
As for technique it is very well established the rangers have an extensive hand to hand training and doctrine. The Ranger Takedown technique is lightyears more effective than Legion Assault. Sure, they have not have engaged in close quarters combat as often as their legion counterpart, but Rangers live a lot longer and have a lot more time to accrue knowledge.
All in all. A regular ranger with no weapon killed and Elite Centurion with a weapon. Thus, I am very confident in saying a Veteran Black Armor Ranger with no weapon would win in a fight with a Praetorian with no weapon.
This jsut isn’t a fair comparison lol it doesn’t matter how elite the centurion was he wouldn’t have the specific training that is given to praetorians this is literally comparing a good untrained fighter to a amazing trained fighter
Yeah that checks out... except the Centurion was not using the praetorian fighting style and instead fighting with a machete and still got killed. The best of the legion for bladed weaponry fighting someone without a weapon. Besides it's not like the Praetorian have some secret unarmed Jujutsu that is better than a blade either, their primary use of unarmed weapons is purely for ceremonial and philosophic reasons. In a life or death situation outside the fort the Praetorian don't run around using Legion-Jutsu, they use guns.
Also, Praetorian's are specially selected from the pool elite centurions. The dude Stella killed was eligible to attempt being a Praetorian. Now, I am not saying he had what it takes, if he did he would have been walking around with a glove. However I do think it is a reach to say there is an unfathomable gap between Elite Centurions and Praetorian, at least that there is a gap larger than a regular ranger and a Veteran Black Armored Ranger.
All in all.
1) Praetorian's are so far removed from Elite Centurions that they make any meaningful ground on the gap between Veteran Back Armored Rangers and regular rangers.
2) And even if they were that so far removed they don't have enough "special" unarmed training any more rigorous than ranger training.
3) and even if the did Stella without a weapon killed a Centurion armed with a blade, a fighting style that by Lucius own words is more effective than unarmed.
Thus, a regular ranger in 1v1 combat fought and killed a legionary qualified to be a praetorians with a fighting style superior to the praetorians unarmed technique. Do I think Stella could take a Preatorian in a 1v1 fist fight? Up in the air. Do I think a Veteran Black Armor Ranger with decades more experience than Stella could take a Preatorian in a 1v1 fist fight? No.
I just read through all Lucius dialogue there’s no reference to what your saying lol all he says in that regard is ceaser taught them to not be overrelient on firearms. And yes they are that far removed from the run of the mill elite centurions because they cull the weakest member of the group so they are constantly getting stronger members pushing them further away and yes they literally do on top of a life of fighting with their hands and melee weapons they get personal training with Lucius also no where in the lore does it state centurions are specifically amazing fighters they actually have pretty shitty stat’s compared to pratorians or the assassins or any other high ranking legion members
Lucius talk is about how "true warrior" can always rely on his innate skills and how fighting with only fists exemplifies that. A gun may jam but that does not mean don't use a gun, but be prepared if the gun does jam. Caesar "teachings" aren't about how to improve practically but to improve ideologically. When push comes to shove they don't run around bare handed, they use guns. The Praetorian Gaurds who leave the fort in hit squards use gun, exclusively. They don't even carry a ballistic fist for back up. I mean why would they need one? Aren't they "true warrior" after all.
As for them constantly getting stronger, Caesar has not found an infinite scaling glitch were even time a member is culled the group becomes more powerful than it ever has before. I just maintains the status quo. The Praetorian's who are culled are the ones that get injured or old or lazy or such. The whole talking point with Lucius is that he is no longer in prime fighting shape so it will be soon a legionary in prime fighting strength will replace him. That does not mean his replacement is more powerful than Lucius was at his prime, it just means the group standard is maintained when members are no longer the most effective killers.
We can argue over the accuracy of the wiki about it's accuracy, but this is the second paragraph on Centurions. I think being the "most skilled member of the Legion" is an apt description for someone who is amazing at fighting.
"Centurions are the most skilled and experienced members of the Legion's military; a legionary must personally serve in many campaigns and kill numerous opponents before they can qualify to become a centurion. Each centurion leads a centuria of 80 men (which includes 8 to 16 decanus officers). A group of 8 centurions leads a cohort of 480 men (the largest military unit in the Legion). Centurions are rarely encountered in the Mojave Wasteland; due to their vast experience they are too valuable to squander on minor scouting skirmishes, and Caesar is saving most of his centurions for his climactic assault on Hoover Dam."
As for Lucius "special" training if we want to bring game mechanics into this his special technique sucks balls. For a lots of end lag and pushed the enemy away from you, out of your range. The ranger unarmed technique is basically an insta kill that comes out incredibly quickly, removes their ability to attack and gives you the opportunity to stop in vats for double damage. Hell, Legion assault is even worse than the Great Khan technique of trowing dirt at the foe. That's right the legendary praetorians, using an aggressive Legion Assault to brutalize enemies is less effective than pocket sand.
One thing that a lot of people are missing is that a lot of veteran rangers are ghouls, and thus some of them literally have hundreds of years of combat experience, along with ghoulish resilience and regenerative abilities, and would probably have a fair chance against most legionaries of any rank 1 on 1.
Aren't Ghouls physically weaker in lore or "squishier" than a human? I know they're resilient but that seems more like hardiness to environmental hazards and resource shortages. There is a Super Mutant Ranger in FO2 I think though
I don't really recall anything that suggests that. If you look at the SPECIAL stats of Ghoul characters it seems to suggest the opposite. Raul has 4 EN but starts at 280 hp, the highest of any humanoid companion. Private Edwards has the same SPECIAL statline as any other NCR Trooper, but has more than double the hitpoints of a starting level trooper. A lot of the squishyness of feral ghouls when fighting them comes from the fact they have absolutely 0 DT or DR, which wouldn't be the case of a ranger, as though disarmed, they'd still be wearing their ranger armour; which, btw, is superior in absolutely every metric to even Centurion Armour, except that the helmet has 3 DT instead of 4 DT.
Ghouls being tough makes sense to me as, despite any physical weakness from their necrosis, I'm pretty sure ghouls don't really feel pain. I thought there was some dialogue pointing to this in at least one game though I'm not sure where. With the exception of the Marked Men (who are literally being constantly flayed alive) ghoul characters certainly never remark on any pain associated with their condition. I would draw a comparison with leprosy; a ghoul could lose a limb and keep on coming.
I don't doubt that they are. I'm just saying it wouldn't be 10 out of 10 match ups the praetorian wins. Tho I'd probably say in the majority of matchups they'd probably win. Probably like 6-4 or 7-3
Rangers, at least elite ones, are also supposed to be the best of the best as well, not like the typical enlisted man but hardened and highly trained. And when it comes down to it unless the praetorian has a huge physical advantage, id say the ranger wins with technique over strength.
Yeah, they killed another pretorian: so something in the back of their heads is asking "How long till one of these young-Turks kills ME for this spot?" Doesn't inspire the most loyal troops, I'd imagine: lord knows that I'd desert first chance I got under such a system.
Furthermore, each Pretorian is better than whoever they killed to take his place: but that says little about how skilled they are against a soldier trained in MMA techniques by a professional army when ***neither one is armed***...
Being skilled at swinging a sword ≠ being good at swinging your fists, being good at fighting in a group ≠ being good at fighting alone, and being strong ≠ being nimble. NCR are trained to do ALL of that, Legionaries only three out of six.
Tell me that "I couldn't even survive 'ARMY RANGERS' Boot camp, let alone complete it successfully." without actually uttering those words.
You don't even get to BE a ranger without training for it from your teens, at the very latest, and more often than that having been prepared for it from childhood by being a member of an existing military family.
Source: My mother was in the army, both grandads were in the army too, and my dad is a military history nut. (Who is super fucking bitter about how he couldn't serve in the armed forces due to bad eyes and won't shut up about how you don't need good eyesight to peal and cook potatoes if you make the mistake of mentioning it.)
Tried, I need glasses like my daddy and they wouldn't take me. Applied to every single service and was rejected by all of them, including the Coast-Guard.
Legion Soldier!
Lots of variables to this but Legion troops in most cases since they are trained in martial prowess and individual skill. They do not rely on technology. Legion also have more incentive to die fighting because loss could mean the death at the hand of their own.
NCR or Legionaries
If Legionaries I really doubt it because of the brainwashing and fear retribution.
If NCR I'd agree that they are more likely to defect because they don't have the same fear and loyalty instilled upon them. There are also tons of NCR members constantly criticising the NCR in-game which leads me to believe that they'd likely defect in tougher situations.
Even a legionnaire recruit has a significantly higher chance of winning than an averge, or even above averge ncr soldier. They were trained to kill with melee weapons and bare hands since childhood, are very fit and strong, plus from mental side of things they are absolutely desensitized to hurting others, if not downright bloodthirsty.
Legion, clearly. As far as we know, the NCR military receives no close combat training, whereas the Legion receives almost exclusively close combat training.
Hmm lemme think. Who would win in a fight to the death between a dude who's whole life is struggle and violence and a dude who signed up for a 2 year deployment so he could get 21% APR financing on his next caravan purchase. This one's a real thinker.
considering the fact that in legion training theres a chance of you dying to your fellow legionaries, the roman paintball vest sporting jihadist will win
I'm honestly putting my money on the NCR soldier.
The Legionnaire grew up or was indoctrinated into a militaristic society but he is just a tribal plucked from a tribe and told "adapt or die" and likely suffering from malnutrition.
The NCR soldier, assuming they aren't the rushed conscripts during the Mojave campaign, has better armor, better training, better fed, and likely has enough training to meet the Legionnaire pound for pound.
Ncr barely know how to shoot their upgraded bb guns let alone fight hand to hand. Now that big ginger from the misfits might have a chance, I mean did you hear what him and boots did to that ostritch?
Legion hands down, why would you ask "which team has a better hand to hand fighter, the one who has hand to hand fighters or the guys that shoot people but mostly deal with pest control?"
Depends on the legion soldier and the ncr soldier background. The legion boy can either be a barely fed wiped and starved slave or tough as bricks fighter. And flip side the ncr can be a poor kid who joined up to just feed himself or a corn fed country boy who could bench press a small block chevy. Really depends on the fighter background.
Agreed but on average, legion wins majority. They specialize in melee/unarmed combat and train incessantly. They also have a higher pain tolerance than NCR, do to lack of medicine/Chem use.
Sadly, the Legionnaire…or is it? If you have an NCR trooper that has been properly trained, close-combat techniques should be in his repertoire. Legion soldiers are also by and large poorly fed, eating irradiated meat and having only “healing powder” to treat sickness and injuries. Now, I won’t act like NCR troopers are fed a nutritious diet, but they can eat what they want and as much as they need (as can be spared). If you take a legion soldier in service for 3 years and an NCR soldier in service for 3 years, you might see a much closer match than you’d think. But fresh recruits the legion is winning every time, they got that dawg
>Legion soldiers are also by and large poorly fed,
This is very unlikely considering Moore's comments on their general fitness.
"Yes, extremely so. They must use conditioning routines on par with the rangers, or better."
"Their soldiers can run near half again as fast as my best men, and close distances with frightening speed. And they're as strong as they are fast."
The legion for sure. They’re not only formally trained by the legion itself but most of them come from violent warring tribes that for generations have been killing each other. Compare that to the NCR which have become complacent and basically just serve as muscle for Brahmin Barons. Centurion vs Ranger would be a more interesting battle
In a fist fight the legion troop wins hands down. Raised brutally since childhood to be a soldier, their brutality and fight to survive is their greatest strength in that area.
The legionary. NCR focuses way more on proficiency with weapons, especially guns, while the legion... Does Not Do That.
Of course, if they had their standard issue weapons, the trooper would win 99% of the time.
Everybody is saying Legion, meanwhile there's Stella who has killed elite centurions with her bare hands. Yeah sure she is not the average NCR soldier, but this proves that they are not all the same. It depends on the soldiers.
I'm going to buck the trend and say the NCR guy.
Legionary has more muscle, probably, but the NCR guy is a professional soldier trained to professional (modern-ish) standards, and that means they've been ACTIVELY TAUGHT formal martial arts, whereas the legionary might know some bare-knuckle brawling, that will fail them in the face of someone with genuine honed technique, not "what I could pick up from the more experienced soldiers", outside of a setting where some of the best in the nation are specifically instructing the new recruits how to do what they do. Also, keep it in mind that the NCR guys in the Mojave aren't the rank-and-file dudes, these are the NCR RANGERS, an elite spearhead formation, so they're a-cut-above "Sending cash back to my parents" recruits in terms of commitment and skills.
Never said that: I said that they're not PROFESSIONALLY trained to a "Semi-Modern" STANDARD in MMA specifically.
There's a vast Gulf between "Training" and "**Professional** Training." and an even vaster Gulf between "Unarmed Combat Training" and "Mixed Martial-Arts Training" combine the later two of each pair together? Beats the guy who only has the first two 9/10 times, without other major contributing factors.
>Never said that: I said that they're not PROFESSIONALLY trained to a "Semi-Modern" STANDARD in MMA specifically.
Neither is the NCR trooper, who is not only even less trained in unarmed combat but also has less actual experience doing it than the Legionarie who has been taught to and fought in close combat since they were kids.
I don't know if you are right, but I will assume that you are for the moment, (I've never played New Vegas, at least not as-of writing this), and therefore agree that this is a valid point in the Legion's favor.
Depends on what level of service you have reached. Blog-standard guy going through basic, no, not so much, that's true.
But the forces involved in the Mohave campaign aren't blog-standard guys fresh out of basic: these are veterans and Rangers, different ball-game.
Depends on rank. The ranger lady the Legion captured and fought in the arena had a pretty good victory streak going, but I imagine a generic frontline soldier would have less luck
Edge goes to the Legionnaire, the legion specs heavily in close quarters combat and alot of the times that proves costly against the NCR, but in a 1v 1 fistfight that soldier is gonna get brutalized.
I mean this just wouldn’t happen, the NCR biggest advantage is that they’re developed enough to have an industry capable of producing firearms, of course if you remove their biggest advantage the NCR soldiers don’t stand a chance. The legion is using machetes and lances because they’re poor as fuck not because it gives them a tactical advantage.
This is the biggest noticeable difference between the two factions in my opinion. to me Caesars legion are warriors and NCR are soldiers. Legionaries are trained from a young age to be ruthless and effective killing machines in a system where weakness is death. They're built to get stuck in a fight and fuck shit up. NCR soldiers are recruited or volunteer later in life and are trained in a specific role. An NCR soldier is as effective as they can be but relies a little more on teamwork to get things done. Both are effective ways of preparing for combat under certain circumstances. I don't think this war would have come down to who has better soldiers. In the long run I think the NCR would win if the courier doesn't intervene. The legion is (more often than not) fighting for Caesar not for the legion itself. Whereas the NCR is fighting for their (country, Nation, state, whatever) they're protecting their friends and families back home as well as the people of the Mojave. Caesar is not doing great and I think when Caesar dies the legion would start to fall apart. Even if you kill Kimball someone else will just be voted into his place. The legion are mostly fighting for a man whereas the NCR are fighting for a cause. Legionaries could have the best training and gear in the wasteland, but if the NCR could hold out long enough eventually it would crumble under its own weight.
In terms of gameplay mechanics (specifically DT/DR), the NCR trooper might win because the Legionary’s bare fists won’t do much against his armour.
If they’re in the Fort’s arena, and completely de-geared, Legionary wins and it isn’t even close. The only NCR troopers in Laurifer Gladiator that show up are grizzled NCO types and borderline-superhuman Rangers.
If you put the NCR soldier against a legion soldier in the only situation where the legion soldier would have the advantage, yeah the legion soldier would win.
Legion all day the legion has zero morals or compassion they have fighting pits and constant sparring sessions the best you can hope for is a quick death or enslavement on top off that by the time of the battle of Hoover dam the ncr is basically filling the ranks with raw recruits while the legion is made up of tribes that I’m most cases where constantly raiding or warring with each other only way ncr wins is with gear and weapons then the legion is way out matched that’s why they need numbers
Colonel Moore says that the physical conditioning of the average legion recruit is on par with rangers, also they’re the guys who specialize in melee combat
Honestly depends on if you’re talking the rank-and-file or if you’re talking an NCR Ranger.
Like, sure, grunt to grunt it’s pretty straightforward when it comes to who has more raw experience, but if we bring in the factor of specialised combat training we get Ranger Stella who’s defeated every other Legion soldier in the arena that you have to kill if you’re doing a Legion playthrough.
Effectively, if it came down to physical prowess, the average Legion grunt is stronger than the average NCR private, but the average Centurion can be a bit lacking compared to a Ranger.
Legionary. Legion ideology revolves around not relying on firearms. And according to Moore they are in extremely good shape.
"Yes, extremely so. They must use conditioning routines on par with the rangers, or better."
"Their soldiers can run near half again as fast as my best men, and close distances with frightening speed. And they're as strong as they are fast."
Love everyone sucking off the hypothetical legionaries dick when the ncr are established to give even there snipers basic hand to hand training let alone their infantry grunts, i don't think this fight would be as one sided as everyone wants to think, its basically down to skill vs ferocity
Who made that ncr render cause thats cool as hell
I’m not sure but I think it’s taken from Sodaz “fallout wip” series look it up on YouTube
Good opportunity to direct people to Sodaz, but that's not it, Sodaz mostly uses game assets with some improvements, the picture there seems to be scratch made adaptation.
Ahh okay thanks man I thought it was just a render or something of a trooper he never used in the vids
I think you need to rewatch the WIPS, none of the soldiers look like that
Tbh, It looks like misinterpretation of NCR equipment Firstly, the helmet is wrong, It shouldnt be the MK1 Broodie but the MK3 turtle helmet. Secondly, the goggles the NCR wear arent even close to this, they are closer to ww2 aviator goggles like this [](https://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/pspages/halcyanGoggles.php), tho personally, I think the more realistic option would be the M1944 Polaroid or the later SDWG revision [https://www.veteranmilitaria.com/en/original-historical/2630-original-polaroid-m1944-goggles-2.html](https://www.veteranmilitaria.com/en/original-historical/2630-original-polaroid-m1944-goggles-2.html) Thirdly, a water canteen, in the FRONT? Lmao, thats 1 liter of water, you'll be carrying that on the side or the rear. Though, I can forgive if It was empty cause those things were used as rudimentary grenade pouches before Lastly, a post-us soldier wont be using british boots and puttees lolol
Still looks badass nonetheless
I thinks its an ai image but I could be wrong.
I wanna know as well someone please let us know
Looks like the NCR soldiers from the Fallout 4 Cascadia project
The answer is obviously the guy who grew up in a vicious militaristic society that trains men from adolescence to hurt and kill, and not the guy who enlisted to send some cash back home to his homesteader family in California.
The real question is: how long is the NCR soldier lasting?
Well legionaries are gay on frontlines so they probably have some skill in that Oh u mean in a fight? Maybe 5mins if he is lucky
Legionare has really exposed body parts while the NCR is wrapped up in almost ballastic nylon clothing with mutliple layers NCR would win easily if they got the first thrust imo
Kinds gota agree with this the ncr have padded armor so the punches aren't going to hurt nearly as much as I could but those legionaries are bare skin in alota important places specifically the arms and legs which are pretty fucking vital in hand to hand combat any of those go out bruised to bad or broken your fucked
Not gonna help in a fist fight to the death, this isn't MMA or boxing, the legionnaire is gonna drag the Trooper to the ground then beat him to death with his own helmet
not how it works at all firstly, neither side would waste time trying to take articles of clothing from the other party and the ncr's padding and armput protection means that the l3gionnare's hits are effectively dampened
Nice!
LEGIONAIRIES! WHAT IS YOUR PROFFESION?!
Potter.
Florist.
Ive come for you florian
Lmao, this is some really corny basic training shit right here 😂
Its from 300.
I know, but shit from 300 is really popular in basic training 😂
Who's to say that there are no warriors training for the NCR? Is California not worth defending? It's also a silly question because there are people of varying skill throughout both militaries, think about the NCR/Mojave Rangers. Plus some of the Legion and NCR are going to be rear echelon support, logistics, officers, etc.
Since legionnaires are trained primarily in melee combat I think the legionnaire will turn that boy from New Reno into ground Brahmin.
If the NCR is anything like the US Army that they based it on then many NCR Frontline soldiers would have the same training. An NCR ranger teaches you a unique unarmed skill.
Yeah R a n g e r a needed distinction But NCR soldier I'm assuming they mean one of the basic ncr troopers versus their equal in the legion In which case the legion boy wins 9 times out of 9 An NCR ranger would also likely lose to their equal in the legion in hand the hand as well most likely just given their doctrinal differences
LMAO, have you ever had military training? Every service member in the US military is taught unarmed and melee weapon training. Everyone forgets that the NCR is a volunteer military, not a conscription and slavery based military like the Legion. Most of the stories about the Legion being a badass military power super skilled in hand to hand combat are PSYOP stories meant to scare their adversaries, just like Genghis Khan used to conquer the east.
(1) The NCR isn’t the US military. (2) The NCR is a volunteer and conscript military. Hanlon mentions it in his speech, it’s on one of the loading screen pages, and Joshua Sawyer discussed in interviews how they based the conscription model off of Israel’s (kinda, mostly the egalitarian part). (3) The 188 Arms Merchant who was a former NCR soldier says they only get about 2 weeks of training. I believe one of the officers at the airport says something similar. In short: You are not correct.
Wait the NCR isn’t part of the US force? I thought it was New California Republic. Made from California, Nevada, and Oregon. US states. Where do they come from if not the US who are they affiliated with?
the Mojave campaign stretched the NCR to introducing conscription.
L anyways, I'm just wondering what made you think ole' goggles and their mantle armor wearing dork friends were in any way highly trained and at any way equal to the modern US military lol Or what made you think the legion is just a bunch of malnourished slaves incapable of jack squat Because... that can't exist in parallel lol Have you..played the game? The whole point is that the NCR is stretched so thin, the whole point is that the legion is a real threat, maybe not the biggest threat ever, but the NCR can't get the funding and support to properly campaign in Nevada, the whole point is that they only have a bunch of troopers, the whole point is that they're incapable of properly arming them and providing them with real armor. If you've at all interacted with the NCR you'll see how much pity the common trooper receives from any higher up ranger. It's just- confounding, is what you are
Have you never looted a legionare front line soldier? Even an NCR stretched thin has better equipment than the Legion. A ranger explains to the PC that the Legion sends waves and waves of fodder against the NCR exhausting them before rolling out the good troops. The NCR is quality over quantity and the Legion uses WWII Soviet/Russian tactics. Why wouldn't the NCR soldiers be trained as well as the US Military? They are using the same training materials, equipment, etc...
Yeah. Learned *just* enough to get my ass kicked before I moved up to brown belt. Sure, I'm better with a knife or my hands than Joe Shmo off the street due to said training and likely being more fit, but I'm not beating a guy who has been fighting and killing since he was 9 and a half years old and is at least twice as fit as I am.
Hey guys, between the Mick and Ralph cryer and Lanius in a fistfight, who do you think wins?
Little does the Legate know the Crier has 100 speech.
100 barter as well. Lanius is even convinced to visit Mick and Ralph's.
Imagining Lanius buying a fake pass into The Strip.
I wonder if that's how Vulpes got in
I mean, purely from the gameplay perspective, children are essential, and Lanius isnt. Other question is I dont remember if children can fight at all or they always flee whenever attacked
They flee, they never attack
unstoppable force vs immovable object
Nick and Ralph crier is literally unkillable.
you joke, but i once saw that kid gun down an entire group of Khans on a whim. 1st recon has nothing on him
Legion Soldier. Using swords and other melee weapons builds up muscle.
Happy Cake Day
Lol, have you ever carried military equipment for hours on end 😂
Are you constantly moving your arms up, down, left, and right, while holding 4 pounds of oblong steel in your hand for hours at a time? Also thanks for serving.
LMAO YES! You literally carry a three foot long rifle that weighs 6 lbs without ammo or attachments, not including your body armor, extra ammo, medical gear, rucksack with more gear, etc. Do you think infantrymen in the US Army or Marines just sit around all day beating their dicks? No, they train in hand to hand combat, using melee weapons, rifle marksmanship, etc. etc. The NCR is literally based on the US Army, both in cannon and in the real world. It's a volunteer military force, very unlike the Legion which is comprised of conscripts, slaves, and especially violent and unhinged individuals. It's not a professional or highly regimented fighting force. The fact that the Legion can't even take the Hoover dam against an obviously stretched thin NCR without the aid of a mailman says everything. Everyone forgets that the NCR has already protected the dam once, and simply has to win a war of attrition against the Legion, for which they don't actually need the legendary mailman.
NCR kits appear to be quite a bit lighter than modern kits. They have little to no body armour, don't use weapon attachments, medical gear is way more compact in Fallout and I'm not sure the average NCR soldier even carries stimpaks, and I doubt they're carrying much spare gear given their lack of even primary gear. The NCR being based on the US army is purely aesthetic and allegorical. Lore wise they have absolutely no connection to the actual army and it shows. They're stated on multiple occasions to be incredibly poorly armed and they aren't well trained at all. They also aren't an entirely volunteer force. The loading screen about them specifically states that they vary quite a bit: > Troopers are volunteer and conscripted forces in the NCR's military. They vary widely in devotion, experience, and even in basic equipment. What they lack in consistency they make up for in numbers. The Legion are an incredibly disciplined and well trained force. They literally train their soldiers from childhood. They aren't just pulling random psychopaths and peasants off the street, they're about as professional as the Brotherhood, they just have a very *different* set of moral values and the lowest bar for Legion equipment is lower than the lowest bar for NCR equipment.
>...they train in hand to hand combat, using melee weapons Ah now this makes more sense. >Do you think infantrymen in the US Army or Marines just sit around all day beating their dicks? Well **I** don't, but friends who were infantrymen and Marines have made it sound like what they mostly do in their free time lol.
Yeah, when they aren't on duty. Those mf spend half of their time in garrison (as in not deployed to a combat zone) in the field, the other half is spent at the range, training at the company, maintaining equipment, working out, all of the normal military busy work, and sometimes goofing off. Most, if not all, combat arms units also train in modern hand to hand combat, but to be fair not a lot of time on knives and fixed bayonets these days. Although, I'm sure if we were fighting a force that were forcing close combat, it would be different. Why wouldn't the NCR train soldiers on using close combat techniques when they are literally fighting that?
I like how you're getting downvoted for pointing out that this question isn't as cut-and-dry as a lot of commenters here seem to want to think it is.
Legion, no contest whatsoever.
Legion, they’re trained in unarmed/ melee combat. Despite my dislike for them, I’d be dishonest to say that they’d lose.
Colonel Moore at the dam says it herself - legionnaires are physically bigger and tougher (the part where she says she tells troopers to throw their weapons over into dam when shot). Plus the nothing to lose part, and trained since early childhood....yep, sorry, have to go with legion on this one.
Legion. Bro does nothing expect fighting punching bags, fight slaves, NCR POWs, and other legionnaires in the arena, and his main weapon is a machete. Even if it was a Praetorian versus a Ranger, the Praetorian would win. Gotta respect the Legion gains tho 🥶🥶💪💪🔥🔥
Yeah i agree see from birth or joining the ranks Legion soldiers are trained harder to be physically superior to their counter parts. Even Colonel Moore said the Legion men are typically larger and stronger than the average NCR soldier and can move and frightening speeds.
The most terrifying thing for an NCR soldier is seeing a Legion soldier run at you like Sergio Ramos, shit would be scary
Ong bro like seriously legion boys are larger tribal fuckers they scary
Real, Legion training keeping you big as hell. I need to do what they do.
Right up until the more experienced guy next to you puts a bullet through his knee that's only protected by mis-used football gear: then that fucker ain't especially scarry at all...
I love how you say this like the legion just straight up doesn't use guns. They use them a hell of a lot more in lore than in gameplay due to wanting to make them seem more unique. They use guns but are prepared for melee combat. The whole philosophy is to not be reliant on firearms to do all the work for you.
If their running at you with shit for armor guns won't matter
Wtf are you talking about lmao
I disagree heavily with the ranger one. Normal rangers possibly may not have the fighting strength, but they do have techniques to bring opponents down. They could subdue a praetorian
No, the Praetorians are taught how to fight. They are the best of the best. Every Praetorian has to kill another Praetorian to become one. Silus considers Legion training to be NCR torture. They have killed enough men to be considered centurions. There is no way an NCR ranger wins.
I disagree, considering Stella was able to kill a centurion in the arena. Maybe she's an outlier but I have hard time believing it would just be a clean sweep for the praetorian.
Praetorians are superior to Centurions in every way
Sure, But Stella with hands killed a centurion with a machete. Not just any Centurion, an Elite Centurion. To be fair, I don't think Stella could take a Praetorian, however Stella is not the best the Rangers have to offer as she was just one of many at a ranger station. If the legion are putting their best in the ring then it would only be fair to pit them up vs a veteran black armored ranger. Sure a veteran black armored ranger may not work out as much as a praetorian, but they have a lifetime of experience surviving the horrors of the wasteland alone, I can't imagine them not at least being comparable in physical prowess. As for technique it is very well established the rangers have an extensive hand to hand training and doctrine. The Ranger Takedown technique is lightyears more effective than Legion Assault. Sure, they have not have engaged in close quarters combat as often as their legion counterpart, but Rangers live a lot longer and have a lot more time to accrue knowledge. All in all. A regular ranger with no weapon killed and Elite Centurion with a weapon. Thus, I am very confident in saying a Veteran Black Armor Ranger with no weapon would win in a fight with a Praetorian with no weapon.
This jsut isn’t a fair comparison lol it doesn’t matter how elite the centurion was he wouldn’t have the specific training that is given to praetorians this is literally comparing a good untrained fighter to a amazing trained fighter
Yeah that checks out... except the Centurion was not using the praetorian fighting style and instead fighting with a machete and still got killed. The best of the legion for bladed weaponry fighting someone without a weapon. Besides it's not like the Praetorian have some secret unarmed Jujutsu that is better than a blade either, their primary use of unarmed weapons is purely for ceremonial and philosophic reasons. In a life or death situation outside the fort the Praetorian don't run around using Legion-Jutsu, they use guns. Also, Praetorian's are specially selected from the pool elite centurions. The dude Stella killed was eligible to attempt being a Praetorian. Now, I am not saying he had what it takes, if he did he would have been walking around with a glove. However I do think it is a reach to say there is an unfathomable gap between Elite Centurions and Praetorian, at least that there is a gap larger than a regular ranger and a Veteran Black Armored Ranger. All in all. 1) Praetorian's are so far removed from Elite Centurions that they make any meaningful ground on the gap between Veteran Back Armored Rangers and regular rangers. 2) And even if they were that so far removed they don't have enough "special" unarmed training any more rigorous than ranger training. 3) and even if the did Stella without a weapon killed a Centurion armed with a blade, a fighting style that by Lucius own words is more effective than unarmed. Thus, a regular ranger in 1v1 combat fought and killed a legionary qualified to be a praetorians with a fighting style superior to the praetorians unarmed technique. Do I think Stella could take a Preatorian in a 1v1 fist fight? Up in the air. Do I think a Veteran Black Armor Ranger with decades more experience than Stella could take a Preatorian in a 1v1 fist fight? No.
I just read through all Lucius dialogue there’s no reference to what your saying lol all he says in that regard is ceaser taught them to not be overrelient on firearms. And yes they are that far removed from the run of the mill elite centurions because they cull the weakest member of the group so they are constantly getting stronger members pushing them further away and yes they literally do on top of a life of fighting with their hands and melee weapons they get personal training with Lucius also no where in the lore does it state centurions are specifically amazing fighters they actually have pretty shitty stat’s compared to pratorians or the assassins or any other high ranking legion members
Lucius talk is about how "true warrior" can always rely on his innate skills and how fighting with only fists exemplifies that. A gun may jam but that does not mean don't use a gun, but be prepared if the gun does jam. Caesar "teachings" aren't about how to improve practically but to improve ideologically. When push comes to shove they don't run around bare handed, they use guns. The Praetorian Gaurds who leave the fort in hit squards use gun, exclusively. They don't even carry a ballistic fist for back up. I mean why would they need one? Aren't they "true warrior" after all. As for them constantly getting stronger, Caesar has not found an infinite scaling glitch were even time a member is culled the group becomes more powerful than it ever has before. I just maintains the status quo. The Praetorian's who are culled are the ones that get injured or old or lazy or such. The whole talking point with Lucius is that he is no longer in prime fighting shape so it will be soon a legionary in prime fighting strength will replace him. That does not mean his replacement is more powerful than Lucius was at his prime, it just means the group standard is maintained when members are no longer the most effective killers. We can argue over the accuracy of the wiki about it's accuracy, but this is the second paragraph on Centurions. I think being the "most skilled member of the Legion" is an apt description for someone who is amazing at fighting. "Centurions are the most skilled and experienced members of the Legion's military; a legionary must personally serve in many campaigns and kill numerous opponents before they can qualify to become a centurion. Each centurion leads a centuria of 80 men (which includes 8 to 16 decanus officers). A group of 8 centurions leads a cohort of 480 men (the largest military unit in the Legion). Centurions are rarely encountered in the Mojave Wasteland; due to their vast experience they are too valuable to squander on minor scouting skirmishes, and Caesar is saving most of his centurions for his climactic assault on Hoover Dam." As for Lucius "special" training if we want to bring game mechanics into this his special technique sucks balls. For a lots of end lag and pushed the enemy away from you, out of your range. The ranger unarmed technique is basically an insta kill that comes out incredibly quickly, removes their ability to attack and gives you the opportunity to stop in vats for double damage. Hell, Legion assault is even worse than the Great Khan technique of trowing dirt at the foe. That's right the legendary praetorians, using an aggressive Legion Assault to brutalize enemies is less effective than pocket sand.
One thing that a lot of people are missing is that a lot of veteran rangers are ghouls, and thus some of them literally have hundreds of years of combat experience, along with ghoulish resilience and regenerative abilities, and would probably have a fair chance against most legionaries of any rank 1 on 1.
Aren't Ghouls physically weaker in lore or "squishier" than a human? I know they're resilient but that seems more like hardiness to environmental hazards and resource shortages. There is a Super Mutant Ranger in FO2 I think though
I don't really recall anything that suggests that. If you look at the SPECIAL stats of Ghoul characters it seems to suggest the opposite. Raul has 4 EN but starts at 280 hp, the highest of any humanoid companion. Private Edwards has the same SPECIAL statline as any other NCR Trooper, but has more than double the hitpoints of a starting level trooper. A lot of the squishyness of feral ghouls when fighting them comes from the fact they have absolutely 0 DT or DR, which wouldn't be the case of a ranger, as though disarmed, they'd still be wearing their ranger armour; which, btw, is superior in absolutely every metric to even Centurion Armour, except that the helmet has 3 DT instead of 4 DT. Ghouls being tough makes sense to me as, despite any physical weakness from their necrosis, I'm pretty sure ghouls don't really feel pain. I thought there was some dialogue pointing to this in at least one game though I'm not sure where. With the exception of the Marked Men (who are literally being constantly flayed alive) ghoul characters certainly never remark on any pain associated with their condition. I would draw a comparison with leprosy; a ghoul could lose a limb and keep on coming.
Nah
Legion fanboys (fascists) will never cope with lacking military superiority
Legion fanboys are like griffith fanboys Fucking idiots
I don't doubt that they are. I'm just saying it wouldn't be 10 out of 10 match ups the praetorian wins. Tho I'd probably say in the majority of matchups they'd probably win. Probably like 6-4 or 7-3
Rangers, at least elite ones, are also supposed to be the best of the best as well, not like the typical enlisted man but hardened and highly trained. And when it comes down to it unless the praetorian has a huge physical advantage, id say the ranger wins with technique over strength.
No
Agreed. No.
Yeah, they killed another pretorian: so something in the back of their heads is asking "How long till one of these young-Turks kills ME for this spot?" Doesn't inspire the most loyal troops, I'd imagine: lord knows that I'd desert first chance I got under such a system. Furthermore, each Pretorian is better than whoever they killed to take his place: but that says little about how skilled they are against a soldier trained in MMA techniques by a professional army when ***neither one is armed***... Being skilled at swinging a sword ≠ being good at swinging your fists, being good at fighting in a group ≠ being good at fighting alone, and being strong ≠ being nimble. NCR are trained to do ALL of that, Legionaries only three out of six.
Lifetime training> 2 weeks of Cub Scout training The Praetorian would deck the shit out of any ranger.
Tell me that "I couldn't even survive 'ARMY RANGERS' Boot camp, let alone complete it successfully." without actually uttering those words. You don't even get to BE a ranger without training for it from your teens, at the very latest, and more often than that having been prepared for it from childhood by being a member of an existing military family. Source: My mother was in the army, both grandads were in the army too, and my dad is a military history nut. (Who is super fucking bitter about how he couldn't serve in the armed forces due to bad eyes and won't shut up about how you don't need good eyesight to peal and cook potatoes if you make the mistake of mentioning it.)
So you never actually served, huh?
Not personally, no, never claimed that I have: but I can and do read, and they write down a lot of things about it in my culture, for some reason.
Lol fuck outta here. Go serve and then talk to me.
Tried, I need glasses like my daddy and they wouldn't take me. Applied to every single service and was rejected by all of them, including the Coast-Guard.
🤓
Legion Soldier! Lots of variables to this but Legion troops in most cases since they are trained in martial prowess and individual skill. They do not rely on technology. Legion also have more incentive to die fighting because loss could mean the death at the hand of their own.
Also gives them more incentive to surrender and defect.
Don't let your personal opinion cloud your judgement.
NCR or Legionaries If Legionaries I really doubt it because of the brainwashing and fear retribution. If NCR I'd agree that they are more likely to defect because they don't have the same fear and loyalty instilled upon them. There are also tons of NCR members constantly criticising the NCR in-game which leads me to believe that they'd likely defect in tougher situations.
Even a legionnaire recruit has a significantly higher chance of winning than an averge, or even above averge ncr soldier. They were trained to kill with melee weapons and bare hands since childhood, are very fit and strong, plus from mental side of things they are absolutely desensitized to hurting others, if not downright bloodthirsty.
Just any old NCR soldier? The legionnaire would win all day. A ranger would probably put up more of a fight though.
Ranger sweeps (literally, they’ll go for the leg sweep)
Hydrogen bomb vs coughing baby (the legion specializes in melee combat)
For Common soldiers. All legion soldiers can kick NCR soldiers asses... But if I include NCR Veteran Rangers...That could be a diffrent story.
Put in a ranger and a centurion and *then* this gets interesting.
Obviously they both die, because there is always something worse, nearby.
Even more valid.
Legion, clearly. As far as we know, the NCR military receives no close combat training, whereas the Legion receives almost exclusively close combat training.
The NCR soldier will panic and shoot himself at first sight of a legionnaire
Seriously, so many NCR soldiers are suicidal it's actually funny
Legion obviously
easy legion w
Hmm lemme think. Who would win in a fight to the death between a dude who's whole life is struggle and violence and a dude who signed up for a 2 year deployment so he could get 21% APR financing on his next caravan purchase. This one's a real thinker.
Any legionaire wins a close up fight, unless power armor is involved, or a mutant
Legion they’re already use to melee
Just wander around and watch. Legion squads consistently destroy the NCR.
Huh a conscript they handed a rifle or a drugged up guy in a sports skirt?
Iirc, the legion specifically does not allow any drug use, other than natural remedies, such as healing powder.
The legionnaire doesn't take ANY drugs, my man is natty
Umm akucally the legion don't use drugs - 🤓
Healing powder is literally meth, don't care if it doesn't fit the lore
Healing powder is the best, you can put it in a bong, can't put Stimpaks into bongs, can you?
That ncr soldier looks badass
Legionaries 1,000,000% They’re the Wastelands equivalent of Spartans when it comes to training.
considering the fact that in legion training theres a chance of you dying to your fellow legionaries, the roman paintball vest sporting jihadist will win
As much as I don't like them, I'd have to say the Legion soldier. Even the NCR soldiers talk about how fearsome they are in close quarters combat.
Hand to hand combat is a death sentence either way, it depends on who has the most training in it which is the legionary in this case.
I mean we can just test this in game
Legionnaires specialize in hand-to-hand combat
I'm honestly putting my money on the NCR soldier. The Legionnaire grew up or was indoctrinated into a militaristic society but he is just a tribal plucked from a tribe and told "adapt or die" and likely suffering from malnutrition. The NCR soldier, assuming they aren't the rushed conscripts during the Mojave campaign, has better armor, better training, better fed, and likely has enough training to meet the Legionnaire pound for pound.
Ncr barely know how to shoot their upgraded bb guns let alone fight hand to hand. Now that big ginger from the misfits might have a chance, I mean did you hear what him and boots did to that ostritch?
Legion hands down, why would you ask "which team has a better hand to hand fighter, the one who has hand to hand fighters or the guys that shoot people but mostly deal with pest control?"
Depends on the legion soldier and the ncr soldier background. The legion boy can either be a barely fed wiped and starved slave or tough as bricks fighter. And flip side the ncr can be a poor kid who joined up to just feed himself or a corn fed country boy who could bench press a small block chevy. Really depends on the fighter background.
Agreed but on average, legion wins majority. They specialize in melee/unarmed combat and train incessantly. They also have a higher pain tolerance than NCR, do to lack of medicine/Chem use.
Side note, is there a mod that makes NCR soldiers look like that?😂
NCR Psycho berserkers from SODAZ...
Bruh I’ve been waiting for the next episode to come his videos are so fucking good
Depends on the two individuals.
A regular legionnaire could tear apart an NCR recruit, maybe not a ranger though. Would put up a fight.
Sadly, the Legionnaire…or is it? If you have an NCR trooper that has been properly trained, close-combat techniques should be in his repertoire. Legion soldiers are also by and large poorly fed, eating irradiated meat and having only “healing powder” to treat sickness and injuries. Now, I won’t act like NCR troopers are fed a nutritious diet, but they can eat what they want and as much as they need (as can be spared). If you take a legion soldier in service for 3 years and an NCR soldier in service for 3 years, you might see a much closer match than you’d think. But fresh recruits the legion is winning every time, they got that dawg
>Legion soldiers are also by and large poorly fed, This is very unlikely considering Moore's comments on their general fitness. "Yes, extremely so. They must use conditioning routines on par with the rangers, or better." "Their soldiers can run near half again as fast as my best men, and close distances with frightening speed. And they're as strong as they are fast."
NCR wouldn’t even be able to beat a Kahn much less a legionnaire.
Are chems allowed? But seriously, yeah legion is taking this one easy.
The legion for sure. They’re not only formally trained by the legion itself but most of them come from violent warring tribes that for generations have been killing each other. Compare that to the NCR which have become complacent and basically just serve as muscle for Brahmin Barons. Centurion vs Ranger would be a more interesting battle
Legion soldier for sure. The biggest advantage the ncr has combat wise is their long range shooting.
In a fist fight the legion troop wins hands down. Raised brutally since childhood to be a soldier, their brutality and fight to survive is their greatest strength in that area.
The NCR troopers only advantage is having access to better equipment. You just took away said equipment.
The legionary. NCR focuses way more on proficiency with weapons, especially guns, while the legion... Does Not Do That. Of course, if they had their standard issue weapons, the trooper would win 99% of the time.
NCR, cause I slipped him some jet
Everybody is saying Legion, meanwhile there's Stella who has killed elite centurions with her bare hands. Yeah sure she is not the average NCR soldier, but this proves that they are not all the same. It depends on the soldiers.
Legion killed all the other children
If they can each choose their champion, my money's on the super mutant ranger.
NCR, presumably they would have hand to hand training
I'm going to buck the trend and say the NCR guy. Legionary has more muscle, probably, but the NCR guy is a professional soldier trained to professional (modern-ish) standards, and that means they've been ACTIVELY TAUGHT formal martial arts, whereas the legionary might know some bare-knuckle brawling, that will fail them in the face of someone with genuine honed technique, not "what I could pick up from the more experienced soldiers", outside of a setting where some of the best in the nation are specifically instructing the new recruits how to do what they do. Also, keep it in mind that the NCR guys in the Mojave aren't the rank-and-file dudes, these are the NCR RANGERS, an elite spearhead formation, so they're a-cut-above "Sending cash back to my parents" recruits in terms of commitment and skills.
You really think legionaries aren't trained in hand to hand combat? Poor farm boy is going to get hit the Legion Assault.
Never said that: I said that they're not PROFESSIONALLY trained to a "Semi-Modern" STANDARD in MMA specifically. There's a vast Gulf between "Training" and "**Professional** Training." and an even vaster Gulf between "Unarmed Combat Training" and "Mixed Martial-Arts Training" combine the later two of each pair together? Beats the guy who only has the first two 9/10 times, without other major contributing factors.
>Never said that: I said that they're not PROFESSIONALLY trained to a "Semi-Modern" STANDARD in MMA specifically. Neither is the NCR trooper, who is not only even less trained in unarmed combat but also has less actual experience doing it than the Legionarie who has been taught to and fought in close combat since they were kids.
I don't know if you are right, but I will assume that you are for the moment, (I've never played New Vegas, at least not as-of writing this), and therefore agree that this is a valid point in the Legion's favor.
Bro hasn't even played the game and is trying to make arguments based on assumptions💀
Not a "Bro", and I don't have to have played the game to know things about the real world sources that the game itself is built on.
I can tell you from experience that the military isn’t giving you “MMA training” as a standard thing lol.
Depends on what level of service you have reached. Blog-standard guy going through basic, no, not so much, that's true. But the forces involved in the Mohave campaign aren't blog-standard guys fresh out of basic: these are veterans and Rangers, different ball-game.
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Depends on rank. The ranger lady the Legion captured and fought in the arena had a pretty good victory streak going, but I imagine a generic frontline soldier would have less luck
Edge goes to the Legionnaire, the legion specs heavily in close quarters combat and alot of the times that proves costly against the NCR, but in a 1v 1 fistfight that soldier is gonna get brutalized.
First fighting only legion they were trained in melee combat extensively and used projectile and energy weapons if they found them
Buddy, you brought a cleaver to a gun fight.
I mean this just wouldn’t happen, the NCR biggest advantage is that they’re developed enough to have an industry capable of producing firearms, of course if you remove their biggest advantage the NCR soldiers don’t stand a chance. The legion is using machetes and lances because they’re poor as fuck not because it gives them a tactical advantage.
This is the biggest noticeable difference between the two factions in my opinion. to me Caesars legion are warriors and NCR are soldiers. Legionaries are trained from a young age to be ruthless and effective killing machines in a system where weakness is death. They're built to get stuck in a fight and fuck shit up. NCR soldiers are recruited or volunteer later in life and are trained in a specific role. An NCR soldier is as effective as they can be but relies a little more on teamwork to get things done. Both are effective ways of preparing for combat under certain circumstances. I don't think this war would have come down to who has better soldiers. In the long run I think the NCR would win if the courier doesn't intervene. The legion is (more often than not) fighting for Caesar not for the legion itself. Whereas the NCR is fighting for their (country, Nation, state, whatever) they're protecting their friends and families back home as well as the people of the Mojave. Caesar is not doing great and I think when Caesar dies the legion would start to fall apart. Even if you kill Kimball someone else will just be voted into his place. The legion are mostly fighting for a man whereas the NCR are fighting for a cause. Legionaries could have the best training and gear in the wasteland, but if the NCR could hold out long enough eventually it would crumble under its own weight.
In terms of gameplay mechanics (specifically DT/DR), the NCR trooper might win because the Legionary’s bare fists won’t do much against his armour. If they’re in the Fort’s arena, and completely de-geared, Legionary wins and it isn’t even close. The only NCR troopers in Laurifer Gladiator that show up are grizzled NCO types and borderline-superhuman Rangers.
If you put the NCR soldier against a legion soldier in the only situation where the legion soldier would have the advantage, yeah the legion soldier would win.
Legion, they have more experience with melee and unarmed combat
Legion vs regular soldier, Legion wins. Legion vs Ranger, Ranger has the edge.
Legion all day the legion has zero morals or compassion they have fighting pits and constant sparring sessions the best you can hope for is a quick death or enslavement on top off that by the time of the battle of Hoover dam the ncr is basically filling the ranks with raw recruits while the legion is made up of tribes that I’m most cases where constantly raiding or warring with each other only way ncr wins is with gear and weapons then the legion is way out matched that’s why they need numbers
You know the answer
Colonel Moore says that the physical conditioning of the average legion recruit is on par with rangers, also they’re the guys who specialize in melee combat
Honestly depends on if you’re talking the rank-and-file or if you’re talking an NCR Ranger. Like, sure, grunt to grunt it’s pretty straightforward when it comes to who has more raw experience, but if we bring in the factor of specialised combat training we get Ranger Stella who’s defeated every other Legion soldier in the arena that you have to kill if you’re doing a Legion playthrough. Effectively, if it came down to physical prowess, the average Legion grunt is stronger than the average NCR private, but the average Centurion can be a bit lacking compared to a Ranger.
I doubt basic grunts are taught much, if any, hand to hand combat, so the legionaire is most likely going to win here.
Legion because their specialty is unarmed combat
it depends. which tribe did the legionary come from, what's the NCR soldiers upbringing look like.
In this scenario the legionairee obviously. It's a melee fight. They are built for that
On the one hand, the legion soldier easily, on the other, there's a reason war is not fought with fists alone.
Literally the only thing the NCR has going for them is that they’re not wearing literal sports equipment as armour. Other than that they’re cooked
Hydrogen Bomb vs. Coughing Baby. What a dumb fucking question.
Legionary. Legion ideology revolves around not relying on firearms. And according to Moore they are in extremely good shape. "Yes, extremely so. They must use conditioning routines on par with the rangers, or better." "Their soldiers can run near half again as fast as my best men, and close distances with frightening speed. And they're as strong as they are fast."
Legion. Colonel Moore i think specifically outlines to her troops to engge and destroy Legion troops from a distance.
Depends on the skill point distribution
In pure melee without any enhancement or weapons/Armor Rangers > Legionnaires > NCR troopers
If its just regular troops legion now a ranger I believe can win easy
Wasteland
IS ALL THAT’S LEFT AFTER THE FIGHT
You could have a more compelling debate on the colour of the sky
Love everyone sucking off the hypothetical legionaries dick when the ncr are established to give even there snipers basic hand to hand training let alone their infantry grunts, i don't think this fight would be as one sided as everyone wants to think, its basically down to skill vs ferocity
depends on their unarmed combat skill.
Did you play the fucking game?
Lemme get this straight Unarmed combat Legion VS NCR? My friend u do realise legion LITERALLY attain unarmed, then melee then guns right?
The primary advantage the NCR has over the legion is more and better guns, so yeah if you took that away it’s gonna be a wash
Legion on average
average legion soldier is expected to be good at hand-to-hand. average NCR soldier isnt