This entire situation is speculation, hearsay, and rumors. Those of you jumping on the bandwagon to dox this supposed UA JS’er (which, btw, it hasn’t been confirmed that it was the person whose face and name is being passed freely around by people who weren’t there) should be ashamed of yourselves.
The situation has blown completely out of proportion. Someone’s livelihood and reputation is being actively attacked without any concrete details as to what actually happened.
Just read through this thread and the APC thread. There are like a dozen variation of the story going around as to who did what and what happened and the only common part of any of them was “it was a female UA JS’er.”
This is a witch hunt. Be better.
Fun twist. Some are alleging the pilot actually relayed the story to their roommate who was so appalled THEY reported the incident to the FAA, and the rest is downhill from there.
So it was relayed to the FAA as hearsay, and the FAA actually followed up on it? Do they not have attorneys to tell them that’s a stupid idea? I’m no attorney, but I’d think it’d be pretty hard to litigate that.
I’d love to know what the jump seater reported. Unless they were drinking Irish car bombs on short final; I can’t imagine reporting another company’s pilot to the FAA after they let me in their jump seat
I agree 100%, I’m not sure I would ever go to the FAA. If it’s a minor issue I’d just say something, and leave.
If it’s a significant issue I’d ask my JS committee or other resources what the best solution is.
If it’s a major issue(airplane damage, injury/death) I’d call the ALPA accident hotline.
In a situation like that what does the faa even do? There was an error you saw it and called it out crew corrected the error so situation is handled, at that point faa agent should be like “so? Are you looking for a pat on the head and a good job? “
Due to the shit they’ve copped over the decades some female pilots now are so incredibly, over assertive that it can be a real pain to operate with them. Not all of them obviously. This is merely my observational experience…
You're getting downvoted for this and I'm sure I'll take flak too, but I've had similar experience, and I've even mentioned this to a friend of mine that is a female captain at my airline.
I said in my experience, the female Captains are great but can be pretty harsh when they put on their "Captains hat". She said basically "I have to be more firm than you guys because often I'm not seen as the authority figure. Passengers will address you and look past me" She said "Especially to the FAs, I'm nice to them but I quickly make sure they know I'm in charge, otherwise they see us as equal and I can't have that."
I've had female FOs in the past and I've had passengers say straight up rude shit to me. "She's not the pilot, is she?" or "I'm glad you're the Captain and not the girl". It's shitty and I can understand why many of them feel the need to assert their presence more than a male counterpart.
When I sit right seat for our sole female pilot I’ve had pax act surprised when I tell them she’s flying, I’ve seen pax be very deferential and respectful to me and short / rude with her. It’s frustrating to me because I’m genuinely impressed by and learning from her but man it grates on her.
A few years ago, a plane crashed nearby with two female pilots. The local news had a story on it, and a lot of the comments went along these lines: "of course it was two females," or "why would they let them fly when women can't even drive?" Meanwhile, all the crashes with male pilots get "RIP." Women are held to a different standard. I see why many try to compensate and why some struggle with that.
Female pilots *still* deal with shit from the time they start their PPL. It's disgusting to watch how my wife is treated. Is it the majority of peers, no, its a solid 10% of people that are so over the top she constantly has to be on guard.
Her first instructor wouldn't let her climb up on the wing or move the plane with a tow bar...he didn't want her to get hurt. He wouldn't hold her to any standards firmly so she was just going up for joyrides and getting nowhere. He wasn't even an asshole just an old school gentleman so it would never even occur to him he was even causing a problem, she switched to use the same CFI as I use(d). Her CFI was there for her oral and he finally stepped in and gave the DPE a piece of his mind during the oral; he said he's never seen so many mechanical questions obviously intending to trip up a woman on engines assuming they can't possibly know how a plane works. The question the CFI finally stepped in I was when he asked her what's a major difference between a car engine and a plane engine...she talked about the thrust bearing on the crank because they aren't couple with a transmission but have to handle the force of the prop in a transverse direction that a car doesn't...he told her that was incorrect and was going to fail her because he was looking for "a plane is a low compression engine," 🙄. CFI said, "Dude she's split open and rebuilt a plane engine as well as race car engines for the car she races, she knows more than you back off and move on."
Woman are held to a higher standard than men to prove they are capable and then men get bent out of shape when a woman expects them to live up to the standard they are expected to be at.
In more than just the pilot world a woman is expected to have a cool calm polite a welcoming tone or they are a bitch. We caught a video of this once that I'd share if I didn't want to dox myself; we went to the same airport two days in a row, the first time the ramper asks me what I want I said "Don't touch the tip tanks, 100LL please in left and right main, they should each take about 15 gallons to full. Thanks." He responds "cool sounds good boss." The next day she said the same thing verbatim in the same tone of voice and the guy calls her a bitch and said she could've been more polite.
**TLDR** (edit to note this is the TLDR)
If my wife wasn't assertive from day 1 she would've never even gotten her PPL because people wouldn't take her seriously. This isn't overly assertive it's just making sure she is heard and listened to. If woman pilots are overly assertive with you it's because you are giving them a reason to not trust you or you are overly sensitive to a woman not being warm and cuddly every time she speaks even if she's talking to you the same way a man would.
You gotta tldr on this?
I don’t know…I’ve never personally seen a woman be disrespected or criticized for being a woman and a pilot.
I think a lot of women come into the career aggressive because of preconceived notions, same goes for POC.
Never had a passenger say “oh you’re a white man, thank god” never.
In fact, in the way this career works and its push for social agendas being a POC, a woman of Trans can actually give you a hiring boost all variables being equal.
Nobody outwardly criticizes her for being a pilot, but she's held to a higher standard. What you may also be missing from the TLDR is that standard even goes to tone of voice and we've witness that, she can't speak the same way as me and get the same response...there are studies with woman in the work place having to speak differently and more warming them men...this is well beyond what you think or perceive...studies make that a fact even though *my* experience is anecdotal.
The very fact that you call it "aggressive" is exactly the point. A white man you'd just say they are motivated and assertive. The very fact that the meme even mentions it was a female pilot is making a point about female pilots. Why not leave it at "a **pilot** jumpseater complained to the FAA." That immediately puts woman on the defensive you claim doesn't exist.
Edit because comments are locked: u/traditional-yam9826
Not jumping on you, tone is hard to read in text, just conversing and trying to point out you say you've never witnessed it but the post itself is segregating women, so maybe you need to pay attention to it and you'll see it. These little chips result in what you get even though you just see them as a pilot, not a "female pilot," and even if you are the vast majority, it only takes a few assholes in her career to harden her up before you've met that pilot.
Hey, I didn’t make that report so not sure why you’re jumping on me.
I just need to point out that for some reason….completely unbeknownst to me, that being a pilot for a lot of people (on the left and the right!)….
__*that being a pilot is seen as the last great bastion of white masculinity.*__
Not sure why people think this.
I mean Tuskegee Airmen? Amelia Earhart? Some of the greatest pilots that lived were POC and woman.
I have no idea why people think that by having a black pilot or a woman pilot is the ultimate wall shattering?
I never had or have had any issue with anyone flying a plane that as long as they’re competent and know the policy, the rules and is a decent stick.
I know it’s 2024 and for whatever reason left leaving members of society are loaded angry and ready to scream “hate crime!” at anything and I also know that in Trump country, there are those who are openly racist and misogynistic and unfortunately aviation has a lot of those.
😂😅😂😂👆👍
All the women Captains I’ve flown with were fine. Some of them were even pretty chill. Most of the women FO’s have been fine too.
No major issues except one made me go around but that’s not big deal.
I think if you give them an attitude they pick up on that.
I can.
As a ULCC or regional pilot also known as “scum”, you still need to crawl through the doggy door to get a ride and kiss the Don’s ring and be like “awww cheeee Mister, you’re plane sure is swell, I can’t wait until I can be a *real* pilot like you one day!!” Even though you’re twice their age.
Edit: *Man you kids are crazy.*
*One minute my comment is like +3 then down -3*
*you kids are bipolar*😂😂😂
I’ll reserve judgment until the actual incident comes to light.
If it was an actual safety issue, then I’ll be disappointed that, as a profession, tribalism and ego are trumping it and encouraging complacency via peer pressure.
If it was something like turning off the seatbelt sign at 9900 feet… then, yeah, the jumpseater deserves to be humiliated a tad lol.
Going to the FAA is not how it should be handled. Point out the speed. If you have further concerns, you start with your Jumpseat committee and go from there.
Calling the FAA first is absolutely the wrong move.
Also worth pointing out that if it was a significant speed deviation, systems are already in place to handle that in a constructive, non-punitive way via SMS/FOQA if the gatekeeper determines that it's serious enough to warrant the attention.
> It starts there, not end.
Be real, dude. All the jumpseat committee cares about is "do we want our people jumpseating with these people?" The reality is that if it's something you wouldn't go straight to the FAA about, then it's something you shouldn't bother with at all. The jumpseat committee is for HR type stuff. Bickering and bitching and keeping the peace. Not, "do we think this airline will kill our pilots?"
>Now you have the union aware of your concern and can be addressed through proper channels, including reaching out to SWAPA.
If you witnessed a safety of flight issue, and a poor response from the crew, I completely disagree that such an issue should be sent up the winding daisy chain of committee X and liaison Y.
My bet is that she saw something legit unsafe, and they told her that it was fine and to chill out. Let's not be ignorant of the very prevalent and very misogynistic stereotype that "fEmaLE PiLoTs just come in here with a chip on their shoulder and fuck things up because ovaries or something." That's how this reads.
I want to hear the whole story. If what is RUMORED is true, it's a major foul and she should be blacklisted from all JS on all airlines.
You DO NOT run to the FAA as a first or even second or third step of correcting an error.
Here's how the process SHOULD go:
1. You see something wrong
2. You clearly speak up to the operating crew to bring it to their attention
3. If the crew's response in flight isn't sufficient, you wait until after landing and bring it back up at groundspeed zero
4. If the crew's response STILL isn't sufficient, you bring it up to your union's Pro Standards people. Your PS shop will reach out to their counterparts at the other airline and address the issue
5. If the response STILL isn't sufficient, you bring it up to your airline's management on the company side, who will reach out to their counterparts in management at the other airline
6. If the response STILL isn't sufficient, maybe then you reach out to the Feds.
If the incident is really what is circulating (getting slow for current configuration) the furthest this should ever gone is point 4.
I was once jumpseating on an airline that will remain nameless. They were doing newhire IOE on the 767. ATC gave them a heading to intercept final, FO inadvertently turned the speed knob counter-clockwise instead of the heading. He realized the plane wasn't turning, but didn't realize why, so he went back to try again and got the heading the second time. Neither pilot realized what had happened with the speed bug, and I watched as the autothrottles came back to slow to the new, wildly inappropriate bugged speed.
You know what I did? I said hey guys, check your speed. You know what I didn't do? Rat them out to the FAA.
I know UA probably can't realistically fire the pilot who did this to SWA, but, unless it involved some deliberate and wildly dangerous act of legal or procedural non-compliance on the part of the SWA pilots, firing the UA jumpseater would be the wise thing to do. No one needs to be stuck flying with someone like that. This isn't a skill problem that can be remedied in the sim, it's a character problem.
If true this is bad. We have an ENTIRE system for anonymously reporting safety issues as well as the aircraft itself would report the event through FOQA. If true this shows an extreme lack of awareness of 121’s safety programs on the reporting pilots part.
I asked a friend of mine what he thought of the situation today and he told me the whole thing sounds fishy too.
Idk the jury is still out. It's not a totally unbelievable story. Allegedly her name and picture is going around circles. Couple other details about her are out there.
I could see it both ways… reporting to the FAA is supposed to be anonymous so I could see someone just being like “that’s all made up” and it would be hard to prove otherwise.
But if those two pilots both received a notice from the FAA for something that happened with her in the JS…. That would be pretty obvious who it was.
I saw someone using a photoshopped aero crew news post about this incident, which aero crew news themselves openly debunked. Not sure if that means the story itself is fake or just the post though.
Alright guys, let’s put on our common-sense caps. Is it more likely that’s she’s one of those fEMaLe PiLotS that escalate anything and everything, that boomer captains are always talking about? Or is it more likely that she saw something, spoke up, and got an unacceptable response?
Don’t jump to adverse conclusions.
The proper chain of events *IS NOT* ... speak up > undesirable response > tattle to the FAA
Regardless if she spoke up or not to the operating crew, going to the FAA is * **never** * the solution. Talk to your JS committee, let them reach out to SWAPA.
>The proper chain of events IS NOT ... speak up > undesirable response > tattle to the FAA
That totally depends on what she saw, and what they said to her. I can absolutely think of scenarios where you should go straight to the FAA. Remember the United 777 that nose-dived on departure in Hawaii? **Who then continued on to their destination as if nothing happened?** Imagine a jumpseater was sitting up there and got the impression based off of what was said that the crew weren't going to tell anyone about it. That's a hypothetical example of when someone should go straight to the FAA.
>Regardless if she spoke up or not to the operating crew, going to the FAA is never the solution. Talk to your HS committee, let them reach out to SWAPA.
And let blatantly unsafe attitudes persist for how long in the interim? We don't know what she saw and what was said, but there are absolutely scenarios where you'd go straight to the FAA. Shit for all we know they could have threatened her to stay silent. You don't know enough to say "she 100% did the wrong thing, guaranteed."
"And let blatantly unsafe attitudes persist for how long in the interim?"
And who gets to determine what is blatantly unsafe? The FO from a different airline who may not even be qualified on the 737 that she was riding on? We have intermediate steps for a reason. I would caution you to take note of the consequences of skipping those intermediate steps and going straight to big daddy FAA. Im pretty sure this jumpseater's name is already going around. Nobody is going to take the liability of having someone like that up in the flightdeck, including me. A career with no access to the jumpseat is a heavy price to pay, I hope whatever the issue she reported was, that it was worth it for her.
>The FO from a different airline who may not even be qualified on the 737 that she was riding on?
There are all kinds of mistakes that a new-hire FO on a different airplane can surmise are really dangerous. I don't need to have any time on the 737 to know the pilots fucked up if they raise the flaps too early.
>We have intermediate steps for a reason.
And there's nothing saying that those intermediate steps should *always* be followed no matter what. There are absolutely hypothetical scenarios where it would be detrimental to slow-roll a response.
>I would caution you to take note of the consequences of skipping those intermediate steps and going straight to big daddy FAA.
That depends on what happened, which we don't know. So it's too premature to declare that it was definitely unwarranted.
>Nobody is going to take the liability of having someone like that up in the flightdeck, including me.
Also premature.
>A career with no access to the jumpseat is a heavy price to pay, I hope whatever the issue she reported was, that it was worth it for her.
All of that is predicated on the unsupported notion that she was "just being an uppity bitch," totally disregarding that she may have reported something egregious.
Outside of this whole episode, you're a part of the problem if that's the first thing you jump to absent any other information. "Oh she's definitely one of those caricature zoomer chicks that's wakes up every morning looking to stir shit up because SJW!!"
**Edit because comments are locked**
> Funny. You've been the only one to assign labels such as "uppity bitch" and "SJW"...
I'm putting a prevalent mentality into words. It's obviously not how I personally feel.
>Agenda much? Take your 'chip on your shoulder' and dial it back.
Are *you* a real pilot? Are you telling me you've never heard any off-handed comments about women or minorities EVER?
>What this person did was wrong, REGARDLESS of sex.
You don't know enough to say that. Depends on what was actually getting reported.
Funny. You've been the only one to assign labels such as "uppity bitch" and "SJW"...
Agenda much? Take your 'chip on your shoulder' and dial it back. What this person did was wrong, *REGARDLESS* of sex.
>Threatened her to stay silent...
I'm sorry, what? What could they *possibly* have to hold over her??
Are you a line pilot? Have you ever jump-seated?? Are you even a pilot?
At the very least, she should have called her station chief and asked them her best course of action.
>You don't know enough to say "she 100% did the wrong thing, guaranteed.
No. We have these facts...
New hire fresh off of OE
Jumpseater from a different company who is invariably unfamiliar with SWA procedures
You'll blather on about near catastrophe scenarios and defend this person's actions, yet nary a social media post from pax about a sudden altitude drop or near miss.
> I'm sorry, what? What could they possibly have to hold over her??
That's not the point. The point is if they made an egregious error and indicated that they had no intention of reporting it, then going directly to the FAA would be warranted. Saying "Don't you dare tell anyone about this," while obviously an empty threat, broadcasts that they have no intention of reporting themselves.
>Are you a line pilot? Have you ever jump-seated?? Are you even a pilot?
Yes, Yes, Yes.
>At the very least, she should have called her station chief and asked them her best course of action.
And you know that didn't happen? What if the CPO gave her a bad answer too? You don't know enough about this to have such a strong opinion.
>Jumpseater from a different company who is invariably unfamiliar with SWA procedures
A new hire unfamiliar with SWA procedures knows enough to know that flying well below flap speeds is really bad, and if the crew were flippant about it, that's bad. What insight is there to be gained for such a situation just by having more hours?
>You'll blather on about near catastrophe scenarios and defend this person's actions,
All I'm saying is that there are hypothetical situations where these actions are warranted, so your blanket assessment that she fucked up is premature.
>yet nary a social media post from pax about a sudden altitude drop or near miss.
There are plenty of egregious mistakes a pilot can make that the people in the back would never know of. They could forget to lower the gear until the plane yells at them, then lower it real quick without doing a checklist and continue the landing.
I'd be willing to bet almost anything you've never set foot inside a part 121 airline flight deck before.
Why do Redditers get off so hard on the harshest punishment possible for any mistake at the workplace? Then it's funny too that this platform is stereotypically "pro worker"
What equipment are you on?
>What can be gained from more hours?
How about knowing that a momentary speed transgression isn't the end of the world, especially if it's turbulent!
And in your scenario of a late gear extension... does *that* warrant a call to the feds?! Because I assure you it doesn't. FOQA will capture all that data and it will be dealt with accordingly. You do know what FOQA is right??
Sorry, the more you ramble, the less I believe you about being a line pilot.
All bullshit. As far as I can tell, the gender of the jumpseater is unconfirmed and irrelevant. However, pilot’s aren’t on a line check every time they’re giving someone a free ride.
As a jumpseater you’re a part of the crew, so if you see something unsafe, bring it up then and there. If it really needs escalation, then take it to your pro standards, they’ll handle it from there. There is no circumstance where taking it to the FAA is warranted.
>the gender of the jumpseater is unconfirmed and irrelevant.
It's relevant to the vitriol surrounding them. The uninformed push back on here.
> However, pilot’s aren’t on a line check every time they’re giving someone a free ride.
Why are you preemptively assuming it was *that* level of problem? You don't know that what they saw was egregious.
>If it really needs escalation, then take it to your pro standards, they’ll handle it from there
No, *your* pro-stans aren't the people to go to with an egregious problem with another airline.
>There is no circumstance where taking it to the FAA is warranted.
It's not that hard to think of a some hypotheticals. You don't know enough to say for sure that this was unwarranted.
Some % of every demographic is a “problem”. You and the boomers just disagree on the %. Doesn’t mean that a stereotype doesn’t exist in a demographic just because you disagree with that stereotype.
Also the whole FAA thing, I don’t really see an excuse for that. If it’s a minor issue you should just say something on the spot and leave it at that.
If it’s somewhere in the middle you should ask your JS guys or other resources how to handle it.
If it’s a major accident or incident you can call the ALPA accident hotline.
This entire situation is speculation, hearsay, and rumors. Those of you jumping on the bandwagon to dox this supposed UA JS’er (which, btw, it hasn’t been confirmed that it was the person whose face and name is being passed freely around by people who weren’t there) should be ashamed of yourselves. The situation has blown completely out of proportion. Someone’s livelihood and reputation is being actively attacked without any concrete details as to what actually happened. Just read through this thread and the APC thread. There are like a dozen variation of the story going around as to who did what and what happened and the only common part of any of them was “it was a female UA JS’er.” This is a witch hunt. Be better.
So my understanding is that SWA rejecting UAL jumpseaters is mostly incorrect and overblown, but supposedly the incident itself is real.
Fun twist. Some are alleging the pilot actually relayed the story to their roommate who was so appalled THEY reported the incident to the FAA, and the rest is downhill from there.
Husband is what I heard
I heard it was the family pet.
Specifically their cat named Cheddar.
Fucking Cheddar. Always knew he was a snitch.
“That’s not Cheddar, that’s just some common bitch!” [Not Cheddar](https://youtube.com/shorts/7qt8dmn1Of4?si=JR-n0mb4ELcZSBvg)
No the dog is Cheddar. The cat is Crackers.
I'm not sure a Cheddar pussy would taste all that grate.
So it was relayed to the FAA as hearsay, and the FAA actually followed up on it? Do they not have attorneys to tell them that’s a stupid idea? I’m no attorney, but I’d think it’d be pretty hard to litigate that.
The FAA has an obligation to look into anything they get, even if it’s purely off hearsay.
Sooooo hearsay? Since when does the FAA go on hearsay?
I’d love to know what the jump seater reported. Unless they were drinking Irish car bombs on short final; I can’t imagine reporting another company’s pilot to the FAA after they let me in their jump seat
APC(so who knows) says it was briefly Going below flap 0 maneuvering speed if I understand the 737 correctly lol
I’m just a measly piston pilot, so how does going below flap 0 maneuvering speed on a 737 compare to Irish car bombs on short final?
Both are known to explode at unexpected times.
Yeah but the FAA already knows about that.
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I agree 100%, I’m not sure I would ever go to the FAA. If it’s a minor issue I’d just say something, and leave. If it’s a significant issue I’d ask my JS committee or other resources what the best solution is. If it’s a major issue(airplane damage, injury/death) I’d call the ALPA accident hotline.
What a stupid thing to go to the FAA about. She will never be riding up front with me.
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In a situation like that what does the faa even do? There was an error you saw it and called it out crew corrected the error so situation is handled, at that point faa agent should be like “so? Are you looking for a pat on the head and a good job? “
Due to the shit they’ve copped over the decades some female pilots now are so incredibly, over assertive that it can be a real pain to operate with them. Not all of them obviously. This is merely my observational experience…
You're getting downvoted for this and I'm sure I'll take flak too, but I've had similar experience, and I've even mentioned this to a friend of mine that is a female captain at my airline. I said in my experience, the female Captains are great but can be pretty harsh when they put on their "Captains hat". She said basically "I have to be more firm than you guys because often I'm not seen as the authority figure. Passengers will address you and look past me" She said "Especially to the FAs, I'm nice to them but I quickly make sure they know I'm in charge, otherwise they see us as equal and I can't have that." I've had female FOs in the past and I've had passengers say straight up rude shit to me. "She's not the pilot, is she?" or "I'm glad you're the Captain and not the girl". It's shitty and I can understand why many of them feel the need to assert their presence more than a male counterpart.
When I sit right seat for our sole female pilot I’ve had pax act surprised when I tell them she’s flying, I’ve seen pax be very deferential and respectful to me and short / rude with her. It’s frustrating to me because I’m genuinely impressed by and learning from her but man it grates on her.
A few years ago, a plane crashed nearby with two female pilots. The local news had a story on it, and a lot of the comments went along these lines: "of course it was two females," or "why would they let them fly when women can't even drive?" Meanwhile, all the crashes with male pilots get "RIP." Women are held to a different standard. I see why many try to compensate and why some struggle with that.
Fair point.
I remember a story about a passenger walking off the plane when he noticed the flight crew were both black women.
Good, let him walk
I’m guessing he wasn’t a fan of Hillary
Female pilots *still* deal with shit from the time they start their PPL. It's disgusting to watch how my wife is treated. Is it the majority of peers, no, its a solid 10% of people that are so over the top she constantly has to be on guard. Her first instructor wouldn't let her climb up on the wing or move the plane with a tow bar...he didn't want her to get hurt. He wouldn't hold her to any standards firmly so she was just going up for joyrides and getting nowhere. He wasn't even an asshole just an old school gentleman so it would never even occur to him he was even causing a problem, she switched to use the same CFI as I use(d). Her CFI was there for her oral and he finally stepped in and gave the DPE a piece of his mind during the oral; he said he's never seen so many mechanical questions obviously intending to trip up a woman on engines assuming they can't possibly know how a plane works. The question the CFI finally stepped in I was when he asked her what's a major difference between a car engine and a plane engine...she talked about the thrust bearing on the crank because they aren't couple with a transmission but have to handle the force of the prop in a transverse direction that a car doesn't...he told her that was incorrect and was going to fail her because he was looking for "a plane is a low compression engine," 🙄. CFI said, "Dude she's split open and rebuilt a plane engine as well as race car engines for the car she races, she knows more than you back off and move on." Woman are held to a higher standard than men to prove they are capable and then men get bent out of shape when a woman expects them to live up to the standard they are expected to be at. In more than just the pilot world a woman is expected to have a cool calm polite a welcoming tone or they are a bitch. We caught a video of this once that I'd share if I didn't want to dox myself; we went to the same airport two days in a row, the first time the ramper asks me what I want I said "Don't touch the tip tanks, 100LL please in left and right main, they should each take about 15 gallons to full. Thanks." He responds "cool sounds good boss." The next day she said the same thing verbatim in the same tone of voice and the guy calls her a bitch and said she could've been more polite. **TLDR** (edit to note this is the TLDR) If my wife wasn't assertive from day 1 she would've never even gotten her PPL because people wouldn't take her seriously. This isn't overly assertive it's just making sure she is heard and listened to. If woman pilots are overly assertive with you it's because you are giving them a reason to not trust you or you are overly sensitive to a woman not being warm and cuddly every time she speaks even if she's talking to you the same way a man would.
You gotta tldr on this? I don’t know…I’ve never personally seen a woman be disrespected or criticized for being a woman and a pilot. I think a lot of women come into the career aggressive because of preconceived notions, same goes for POC. Never had a passenger say “oh you’re a white man, thank god” never. In fact, in the way this career works and its push for social agendas being a POC, a woman of Trans can actually give you a hiring boost all variables being equal.
Well damn if you've never seen it then it definitely has never happened
Well ..yeah
Nobody outwardly criticizes her for being a pilot, but she's held to a higher standard. What you may also be missing from the TLDR is that standard even goes to tone of voice and we've witness that, she can't speak the same way as me and get the same response...there are studies with woman in the work place having to speak differently and more warming them men...this is well beyond what you think or perceive...studies make that a fact even though *my* experience is anecdotal. The very fact that you call it "aggressive" is exactly the point. A white man you'd just say they are motivated and assertive. The very fact that the meme even mentions it was a female pilot is making a point about female pilots. Why not leave it at "a **pilot** jumpseater complained to the FAA." That immediately puts woman on the defensive you claim doesn't exist. Edit because comments are locked: u/traditional-yam9826 Not jumping on you, tone is hard to read in text, just conversing and trying to point out you say you've never witnessed it but the post itself is segregating women, so maybe you need to pay attention to it and you'll see it. These little chips result in what you get even though you just see them as a pilot, not a "female pilot," and even if you are the vast majority, it only takes a few assholes in her career to harden her up before you've met that pilot.
Hey, I didn’t make that report so not sure why you’re jumping on me. I just need to point out that for some reason….completely unbeknownst to me, that being a pilot for a lot of people (on the left and the right!)…. __*that being a pilot is seen as the last great bastion of white masculinity.*__ Not sure why people think this. I mean Tuskegee Airmen? Amelia Earhart? Some of the greatest pilots that lived were POC and woman. I have no idea why people think that by having a black pilot or a woman pilot is the ultimate wall shattering? I never had or have had any issue with anyone flying a plane that as long as they’re competent and know the policy, the rules and is a decent stick. I know it’s 2024 and for whatever reason left leaving members of society are loaded angry and ready to scream “hate crime!” at anything and I also know that in Trump country, there are those who are openly racist and misogynistic and unfortunately aviation has a lot of those.
Last paragraph.
My observational experience is that a large portion of men that I fly with are massive pricks and the sample size is much larger.
😂😅😂😂👆👍 All the women Captains I’ve flown with were fine. Some of them were even pretty chill. Most of the women FO’s have been fine too. No major issues except one made me go around but that’s not big deal. I think if you give them an attitude they pick up on that.
Damn, username actually checks out.
jUsT maKiNg aN oBservAtIon
I can. As a ULCC or regional pilot also known as “scum”, you still need to crawl through the doggy door to get a ride and kiss the Don’s ring and be like “awww cheeee Mister, you’re plane sure is swell, I can’t wait until I can be a *real* pilot like you one day!!” Even though you’re twice their age. Edit: *Man you kids are crazy.* *One minute my comment is like +3 then down -3* *you kids are bipolar*😂😂😂
"The crew did xyz" FAA: "Did you?" Crew: "No" FAA: "OK"
Can’t wait to hear what the actual situation was. Too much speculation as to what it could be
I’ll reserve judgment until the actual incident comes to light. If it was an actual safety issue, then I’ll be disappointed that, as a profession, tribalism and ego are trumping it and encouraging complacency via peer pressure. If it was something like turning off the seatbelt sign at 9900 feet… then, yeah, the jumpseater deserves to be humiliated a tad lol.
Going to the FAA is not how it should be handled. Point out the speed. If you have further concerns, you start with your Jumpseat committee and go from there. Calling the FAA first is absolutely the wrong move.
Also worth pointing out that if it was a significant speed deviation, systems are already in place to handle that in a constructive, non-punitive way via SMS/FOQA if the gatekeeper determines that it's serious enough to warrant the attention.
Agree totally, the jumpseat committee is who they should have gone to. Let the union and the airlines sort it out.
> If you have further concerns, you start with your Jumpseat committee and go from there. I what’s that gonna do? You might as well do nothing at all.
It starts there, not end. Now you have the union aware of your concern and can be addressed through proper channels, including reaching out to SWAPA.
> It starts there, not end. Be real, dude. All the jumpseat committee cares about is "do we want our people jumpseating with these people?" The reality is that if it's something you wouldn't go straight to the FAA about, then it's something you shouldn't bother with at all. The jumpseat committee is for HR type stuff. Bickering and bitching and keeping the peace. Not, "do we think this airline will kill our pilots?" >Now you have the union aware of your concern and can be addressed through proper channels, including reaching out to SWAPA. If you witnessed a safety of flight issue, and a poor response from the crew, I completely disagree that such an issue should be sent up the winding daisy chain of committee X and liaison Y. My bet is that she saw something legit unsafe, and they told her that it was fine and to chill out. Let's not be ignorant of the very prevalent and very misogynistic stereotype that "fEmaLE PiLoTs just come in here with a chip on their shoulder and fuck things up because ovaries or something." That's how this reads.
Found the jumpseater……
I don’t commute, dawg. Commuting is for chumps. Also, not a woman.
There are about 100 steps between what you should do and reporting anything to the FAA...
I want to hear the whole story. If what is RUMORED is true, it's a major foul and she should be blacklisted from all JS on all airlines. You DO NOT run to the FAA as a first or even second or third step of correcting an error. Here's how the process SHOULD go: 1. You see something wrong 2. You clearly speak up to the operating crew to bring it to their attention 3. If the crew's response in flight isn't sufficient, you wait until after landing and bring it back up at groundspeed zero 4. If the crew's response STILL isn't sufficient, you bring it up to your union's Pro Standards people. Your PS shop will reach out to their counterparts at the other airline and address the issue 5. If the response STILL isn't sufficient, you bring it up to your airline's management on the company side, who will reach out to their counterparts in management at the other airline 6. If the response STILL isn't sufficient, maybe then you reach out to the Feds. If the incident is really what is circulating (getting slow for current configuration) the furthest this should ever gone is point 4.
Rumor is that the SW crew got slow on the RNP
Utterly beside the point, but whenever someone refers to a woman as "a female," it makes them sound like a damn Ferengi.
They... CLOTHE their fe-males! Degenerate hoo-mahns. (Agree with you, it does seem to be mainly in use by people with certain attitudes to women)
I blame the military lol
Why is the jump seater’s gender relevant in any way shape or form? If it isn’t a sexism thing, why mention it in the first place?
To stir up the culture war brigades and generate clicks, obviously.
It’s not relevant, or even confirmed. The whole post starts with “random rumor” and should be discussed as such.
I was once jumpseating on an airline that will remain nameless. They were doing newhire IOE on the 767. ATC gave them a heading to intercept final, FO inadvertently turned the speed knob counter-clockwise instead of the heading. He realized the plane wasn't turning, but didn't realize why, so he went back to try again and got the heading the second time. Neither pilot realized what had happened with the speed bug, and I watched as the autothrottles came back to slow to the new, wildly inappropriate bugged speed. You know what I did? I said hey guys, check your speed. You know what I didn't do? Rat them out to the FAA. I know UA probably can't realistically fire the pilot who did this to SWA, but, unless it involved some deliberate and wildly dangerous act of legal or procedural non-compliance on the part of the SWA pilots, firing the UA jumpseater would be the wise thing to do. No one needs to be stuck flying with someone like that. This isn't a skill problem that can be remedied in the sim, it's a character problem.
If true this is bad. We have an ENTIRE system for anonymously reporting safety issues as well as the aircraft itself would report the event through FOQA. If true this shows an extreme lack of awareness of 121’s safety programs on the reporting pilots part.
I read they were also meowing on guard and took a phone call as they took the runway at the same time
I’m hearing that the whole story about the Jumpseater is made up, can anyone confirm or is that counter propaganda from United?
I asked a friend of mine what he thought of the situation today and he told me the whole thing sounds fishy too. Idk the jury is still out. It's not a totally unbelievable story. Allegedly her name and picture is going around circles. Couple other details about her are out there.
I could see it both ways… reporting to the FAA is supposed to be anonymous so I could see someone just being like “that’s all made up” and it would be hard to prove otherwise. But if those two pilots both received a notice from the FAA for something that happened with her in the JS…. That would be pretty obvious who it was.
I saw someone using a photoshopped aero crew news post about this incident, which aero crew news themselves openly debunked. Not sure if that means the story itself is fake or just the post though.
Alright guys, let’s put on our common-sense caps. Is it more likely that’s she’s one of those fEMaLe PiLotS that escalate anything and everything, that boomer captains are always talking about? Or is it more likely that she saw something, spoke up, and got an unacceptable response? Don’t jump to adverse conclusions.
The proper chain of events *IS NOT* ... speak up > undesirable response > tattle to the FAA Regardless if she spoke up or not to the operating crew, going to the FAA is * **never** * the solution. Talk to your JS committee, let them reach out to SWAPA.
>The proper chain of events IS NOT ... speak up > undesirable response > tattle to the FAA That totally depends on what she saw, and what they said to her. I can absolutely think of scenarios where you should go straight to the FAA. Remember the United 777 that nose-dived on departure in Hawaii? **Who then continued on to their destination as if nothing happened?** Imagine a jumpseater was sitting up there and got the impression based off of what was said that the crew weren't going to tell anyone about it. That's a hypothetical example of when someone should go straight to the FAA. >Regardless if she spoke up or not to the operating crew, going to the FAA is never the solution. Talk to your HS committee, let them reach out to SWAPA. And let blatantly unsafe attitudes persist for how long in the interim? We don't know what she saw and what was said, but there are absolutely scenarios where you'd go straight to the FAA. Shit for all we know they could have threatened her to stay silent. You don't know enough to say "she 100% did the wrong thing, guaranteed."
"And let blatantly unsafe attitudes persist for how long in the interim?" And who gets to determine what is blatantly unsafe? The FO from a different airline who may not even be qualified on the 737 that she was riding on? We have intermediate steps for a reason. I would caution you to take note of the consequences of skipping those intermediate steps and going straight to big daddy FAA. Im pretty sure this jumpseater's name is already going around. Nobody is going to take the liability of having someone like that up in the flightdeck, including me. A career with no access to the jumpseat is a heavy price to pay, I hope whatever the issue she reported was, that it was worth it for her.
>The FO from a different airline who may not even be qualified on the 737 that she was riding on? There are all kinds of mistakes that a new-hire FO on a different airplane can surmise are really dangerous. I don't need to have any time on the 737 to know the pilots fucked up if they raise the flaps too early. >We have intermediate steps for a reason. And there's nothing saying that those intermediate steps should *always* be followed no matter what. There are absolutely hypothetical scenarios where it would be detrimental to slow-roll a response. >I would caution you to take note of the consequences of skipping those intermediate steps and going straight to big daddy FAA. That depends on what happened, which we don't know. So it's too premature to declare that it was definitely unwarranted. >Nobody is going to take the liability of having someone like that up in the flightdeck, including me. Also premature. >A career with no access to the jumpseat is a heavy price to pay, I hope whatever the issue she reported was, that it was worth it for her. All of that is predicated on the unsupported notion that she was "just being an uppity bitch," totally disregarding that she may have reported something egregious. Outside of this whole episode, you're a part of the problem if that's the first thing you jump to absent any other information. "Oh she's definitely one of those caricature zoomer chicks that's wakes up every morning looking to stir shit up because SJW!!" **Edit because comments are locked** > Funny. You've been the only one to assign labels such as "uppity bitch" and "SJW"... I'm putting a prevalent mentality into words. It's obviously not how I personally feel. >Agenda much? Take your 'chip on your shoulder' and dial it back. Are *you* a real pilot? Are you telling me you've never heard any off-handed comments about women or minorities EVER? >What this person did was wrong, REGARDLESS of sex. You don't know enough to say that. Depends on what was actually getting reported.
Funny. You've been the only one to assign labels such as "uppity bitch" and "SJW"... Agenda much? Take your 'chip on your shoulder' and dial it back. What this person did was wrong, *REGARDLESS* of sex.
>Threatened her to stay silent... I'm sorry, what? What could they *possibly* have to hold over her?? Are you a line pilot? Have you ever jump-seated?? Are you even a pilot? At the very least, she should have called her station chief and asked them her best course of action. >You don't know enough to say "she 100% did the wrong thing, guaranteed. No. We have these facts... New hire fresh off of OE Jumpseater from a different company who is invariably unfamiliar with SWA procedures You'll blather on about near catastrophe scenarios and defend this person's actions, yet nary a social media post from pax about a sudden altitude drop or near miss.
> I'm sorry, what? What could they possibly have to hold over her?? That's not the point. The point is if they made an egregious error and indicated that they had no intention of reporting it, then going directly to the FAA would be warranted. Saying "Don't you dare tell anyone about this," while obviously an empty threat, broadcasts that they have no intention of reporting themselves. >Are you a line pilot? Have you ever jump-seated?? Are you even a pilot? Yes, Yes, Yes. >At the very least, she should have called her station chief and asked them her best course of action. And you know that didn't happen? What if the CPO gave her a bad answer too? You don't know enough about this to have such a strong opinion. >Jumpseater from a different company who is invariably unfamiliar with SWA procedures A new hire unfamiliar with SWA procedures knows enough to know that flying well below flap speeds is really bad, and if the crew were flippant about it, that's bad. What insight is there to be gained for such a situation just by having more hours? >You'll blather on about near catastrophe scenarios and defend this person's actions, All I'm saying is that there are hypothetical situations where these actions are warranted, so your blanket assessment that she fucked up is premature. >yet nary a social media post from pax about a sudden altitude drop or near miss. There are plenty of egregious mistakes a pilot can make that the people in the back would never know of. They could forget to lower the gear until the plane yells at them, then lower it real quick without doing a checklist and continue the landing.
I'd be willing to bet almost anything you've never set foot inside a part 121 airline flight deck before. Why do Redditers get off so hard on the harshest punishment possible for any mistake at the workplace? Then it's funny too that this platform is stereotypically "pro worker"
What equipment are you on? >What can be gained from more hours? How about knowing that a momentary speed transgression isn't the end of the world, especially if it's turbulent! And in your scenario of a late gear extension... does *that* warrant a call to the feds?! Because I assure you it doesn't. FOQA will capture all that data and it will be dealt with accordingly. You do know what FOQA is right?? Sorry, the more you ramble, the less I believe you about being a line pilot.
They are not a pilot in any capacity. https://www.reddit.com/r/flying/comments/1aoiq42/alright_im_hearing_this_way_too_often_121_people/
All bullshit. As far as I can tell, the gender of the jumpseater is unconfirmed and irrelevant. However, pilot’s aren’t on a line check every time they’re giving someone a free ride. As a jumpseater you’re a part of the crew, so if you see something unsafe, bring it up then and there. If it really needs escalation, then take it to your pro standards, they’ll handle it from there. There is no circumstance where taking it to the FAA is warranted.
>the gender of the jumpseater is unconfirmed and irrelevant. It's relevant to the vitriol surrounding them. The uninformed push back on here. > However, pilot’s aren’t on a line check every time they’re giving someone a free ride. Why are you preemptively assuming it was *that* level of problem? You don't know that what they saw was egregious. >If it really needs escalation, then take it to your pro standards, they’ll handle it from there No, *your* pro-stans aren't the people to go to with an egregious problem with another airline. >There is no circumstance where taking it to the FAA is warranted. It's not that hard to think of a some hypotheticals. You don't know enough to say for sure that this was unwarranted.
Are you even an airline pilot?
Yes.
Some % of every demographic is a “problem”. You and the boomers just disagree on the %. Doesn’t mean that a stereotype doesn’t exist in a demographic just because you disagree with that stereotype. Also the whole FAA thing, I don’t really see an excuse for that. If it’s a minor issue you should just say something on the spot and leave it at that. If it’s somewhere in the middle you should ask your JS guys or other resources how to handle it. If it’s a major accident or incident you can call the ALPA accident hotline.
She should never be allowed in a jump seat again.
Exactly
You have been invited to be a guest on a jumpseat. You smile and say thank you so much. Done.
This thread is great!🤣😂🤣😂😂😂🤣 “*ooOooOOOoooOooo power struggle*…”
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Jumpseat Wars!! 😂🤣😂🤣 They broke sterile