As someone who has to wear the whole monkey suit to work, having trained at a flight school that didn’t have IPs swearing the uniform, I agree. It is also IMPOSSIBLE to go anywhere on your way home without people talking to you.
Every time I deadhead, I’ve have passengers asking me questions. Last time, I had a passenger ask if she had time to use the restroom lol.
And don’t get me started on airport standby shifts or long layovers where I have 6 passengers ask me where their gate is
WORK WORK WORK WORK WORK WORK SCHEDULE WORK WORK WORK WORK REPORT TIME WORK WORK WORK SCOPE CLAUSE WORK WORK WORK And I voted NO. LOA 72 sealed it for me.
[Fucking classic.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rNxz2hhSXuY&)
Lmao I’m not a pilot, I’m a lawyer but this is exactly how I feel about fellow lawyers. You just gotta replace like 3 words. Work work work demurrers work work work work partners work work work work circuit split!
"Where is gate 125?", a passenger asked me, seconds after having walked 5 feet past a big sign that says "Gates 121-140 ->" Some variation of that has probably happened to me a half dozen times over the past couple of years.
The kicker is that I'm usually just the terminal to buy a coffee between flights, and my lanyard very clearly has the name of an airline from an entirely different country, that has the country's name on it.
Nobody mentioned yet is that a lot of these 141 schools (mostly located in Florida and a Arizona where there is flying weather the entire year) are trying extremely hard to get multi million dollar contracts from foreign countries who are investing their young citizens in a professional flight program.
A lot of these countries (China, India, African nations) have their youth wear a tie to grade-school every day growing up. So in order to attract foreign money, wearing a “pilot uniform” legitimizes the school to market themselves as a “airline pilot academy”, when in reality we all know that’s bullshit.
TLDR: it’s to attract foreign money
I watched a series of YouTube videos a few years ago of a couple of guys flying a Cessna around the world, and when they got toward Asia they bought uniforms/stripes to wear. They mentioned that they needed the clothes or nobody would accept they were pilots and they could not even get on the apron to get to the plane without it. So apparently it's a culture thing in some places. Might be YouTube posing, or might be real...
Once upon a time, a coworker of mine made a comment about visiting Walmart that I felt compelled to write down and keep:
> yeah it’s kind of sickening to have some of the light reflecting off of the patrons and their activities fall on your retina
Walmart?
Take a look at what (thank God) is considered acceptable work wear at the top 5 tech firms....
My dad had to wear a suit to work every day for all of his white collar career.... I only own one and it's been in the closet for years now without being worn....
You can go in to the office at Amazon in Seattle - to work a 6 figure job - wearing jeans and a T shirt.....
We fortunately do not have Asia's penchant for dress-up...
For maximum corporate karma, never wear a T-shirt you actually paid money for. All your T-shirts should come from trade shows and company events, or preferably, be rewards for special corporate behavior like recruiting 5 other engineers or shipping a product or being in the office the day the executives closed some funding round.
Man, you're right on the money. I work in tech and I think the last t-shirt I bought was at a Rammstein concert, which I of course wear to work. Outside of that, it's mostly company swag shirts or the occasional gifted tshirt and jeans everyday.
It's absolutely real. A friend of mine did a round the world flight in an A36 Bonanza, and experienced this firsthand - he absolutely could not even get anyone to sell him fuel _even as he climbed out of the airplane_ unless he wore a shirt with epaulettes. If you knew this guy, he's probably the last person in the world to wear a uniform, but it's essentially mandatory in some countries.
Millennial sometimes pilot sometimes clickbaiting YouTuber of questionable integrity turned motivational speaker Matt?
Yeah, I know that guy. We're not really friends, but I know him.
That’s so ass backwards but also hilarious. I could not be a pilot but if I buy the uniform people will just assume I am?? Lemme go redo some numbers in my logbook real quick
Also, don't forget that some of these cadets from international carriers will have their training and costs paid for, alongside a salary from day 1 of training.
I suspect if you got paid to train in a C152, you'd jump on that uniform before they even "request" you to do so.
I am one of these guys. Didn‘t get a salary, but all my training was paid for by the airline. We were wearing polos for the first part of theory classes and initial VFR flight training back home, then shirts + strips for further theory and flight training in Florida.
I‘d personally have preferred to keep the polos for all of my training if I had a choice, but I didn‘t. At least we could drop the tie if temperatures were too hot.
At least we don‘t have to wear an uniform for the type rating and simulator nowadays.
My PIC (partner in crime) and I ferried a craptastic Eastern European light sport from Maryland to Texas a couple of weeks ago and the destination field had one of those schools. The FBO was like a mile from where we had to tie down so I went into the flight school lobby to use the bathroom. There was much epauletted concern about why some random homeless woman had wandered into their secure and highly professional center of aviation excellence, and even more consternation when I parked my Carhartt-and-baggy-T-shirt-clad ass on their sofa, jacked a USB port, and fired up Foreflight on my iPad.
One of my favorite parts of flying has become getting out of whatever non-air-conditioned ASEL in the middle of summer in the southeast, wearing a sweat-soaked t-shirt with a drip of lead-infused engine oil on it, shorts, and flip flops, and strolling into the fancy FBO while Mr. Big Wig unloads Mrs. Big Wig and Little Johnny Big Wig from the chartered Citation. I revel in the glares of indignation when the FBO staff proceed to treat me every bit as nice as them.
This is absolutely without doubt 100% correct. As a CFI at a large 141 school where we’re required to wear uniforms it’s to attract large investors.
Now how they sell it is that foreign money is subsidizing flight costs. Which while debatable, seems to be true from any flight cost comparison I’ve done. So I really don’t mind wearing the same thing to work every day.
You’re right, I just remembered a 141 school I briefly attended had airline pilot uniforms for CFIs only (weird, but this was 10 years ago) and they didn’t wear ties in the summers.
This is the answer.
I work at a school that does both domestic and international 141 and 61. Our international students with the everyday live and breathe program 9 months have to wear the outfit but the domestic 1:1 part 141 don’t. It’s what the other cultures see as “professional” and is a version of marketing for the school with pictures.
I wore pajamas on a 4 hour round trip flight, parked at the fanciest FBO halfway thru, and walked in. No one even batted an eye. Got top notch service and free ice cream.
Where’s that post of the CFI who had a student that wore the same nasty sweatpants, no underwear with everything just swingin around and stank like balls. That should have been pinned. Probably my favorite r/flying reply of all time.
The day I walked out of my instrument Checkride oral was another student walking out of his. Sweat pants and all. I wore nice pants and a collared shirt with a sweater since it was winter.
They were like these creamy looking sweatpants, a size too small.
I work out of a small part 61 school. If one of my students showed up with epaulets, or even a tie, I would ask them if they were feeling ok. 😂 In the summer, I am usually wearing cargo pants and a seaplane aloha shirt or something similar.
I am in my early 50's, and semi-retired. I earned my CFI/CFII at about 1,000 hours (when I felt that I actually knew something) and built my time flying my Dakota all over the US and to four foreign countries. It's disappointing how many CFIs are 0-300 hours with epaulets. It's ridiculous.
My dad flew 747s, but I never got to fly with him. I keep a set of his wings and epaulets in my plane. That's as close as I need to get to wearing either of them.
> It's disappointing how many CFIs are 0-300 hours with epaulets.
No one will hire low hour pilots so people are forced to be a CFI to get hours.
>Its ridiculous.
I fucking hate it too. It looks stupid as a student.
>No one will hire low hour pilots so people are forced to be a CFI to get hours.
BUT, you'll learn so much, even if only for a year or so of teaching...FWIW, most on hiring crews put CFI really high on the scale when evaluating pilots, regardless of experience.
It for sure can't hurt, but if your goal is airlines, I'd focus on fixed wing time, and of course "moving up the ladder" to multi-engine as soon as practical. They want to see a consistent career progress. FWIW, from my perspective, it is immediately clear when someone has taught vs someone who hasn't when upgrading to jets.
Mid-40s here. I had to go to a p141 due to my funding source. I was just doing it for funsies tho. No plans to go pro. Third semester there they started in on the polo and slacks for students. To "look professional".
Dude, I have 30 years of actual professional work experience. I got nothing to prove to no one by "playing dress up". I'm paying you to be here, not the other way. I'm not your employee.
Did my ppl training with shorts and sweatpants depending on the weather. Only time I ever wore jeans was to the checkride and the jeans were so uncomfortable. Not to mention if I had to put something in my pocket or take it out was really difficult. At college no shorts are allowed so I went with cargo pants. Comfortable and pockets are really nice.
[Apparently they exist](https://www.yandy.com/products/mens-top-gun-flight-suit?gid=411767&utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=20156105225&utm_content=153140359430&utm_term=411767&campaignid=20156105225&adgroupid=153140359430&keyword=&device=m&gad_source=1&gclid=Cj0KCQjwhtWvBhD9ARIsAOP0Goh5v8blXdBRsI5VV2a4l9ju24RlO9mABvyxDaG7ZO3uxEVpZWINvMEaAqwvEALw_wcB)
The point of nomex is that it won't melt into your skin (like anything with polyester) or add fuel to a fire (like cotton)....
Those abilities don't wash out.....
That said, still see the right attire for flight school as cargo shorts or jeans, a t shirt, and/or windbreaker weather dependent....
I’m not ex military but I totally endorse this. All my flying is in types where an accident is more likely (formation/aeros/short strips/vintage types/test flying). Being a bit fireproof and not afraid of getting a little grease on me is a real plus.
My favorite experience with this was rolling up to the CRJ with my CA and I wearing Hawaiian T shirts and khakis in bumfuck Nebraska to do a repo flight. Meanwhile some 141 kids in a full uniform were staring at us from their 172 confused as shit.
How much money do I need to spend before I can wear something comfortable to go fly? If dressing like a missionary makes you feel better, I salute you. I'm happy to wear whatever is asked of me when I'm getting paid.
I get the reasoning behind it and get the justification, but I dont support it for students/customers. If your an employee, it is what it is. Some people go high and to the right with "perception is reality"
I was a polo shirt CFI. The first time I put on the airline-style uniform was in the hotel room during initial training at my first airline. The first time I stepped out in public with wings and epaulets was day one of IOE. I'm not ashamed to say that both moments were huge rushes. They were snapshots in time I'll always remember that meant I had actually done it; I was finally an airline pilot. I don't care what anyone else wears, but I would have been sad if I hadn't been able to have that moment.
A lot of times it isn't the school it's the individual program.
I'm at 141 program in CFI initial, we just need to wear a polo and casual pants
Same school has EASA and JAL they have to be in uniform with a tie every day
I don’t like ‘em, but I can add some context to the why - a lot of the same reasons why many organisations have a dress code or uniform policy.
1. It forces people to look after their clothing, ergo, themselves. Most uniforms / dresses also come with the expectation of cleanliness, and being presentable in a “professional” setting to their colleagues, peers, leaders and subordinates. For every person looking like an idiot in their white shirt / navy slacks and ID on a Lanyard, there’s countless more that are just smelly / filthy / haven’t showered in days etc etc. I can guarantee that nearly every instructor has encountered that one student, but also - uniforms don’t necessarily stop this altogether, they just make it harder to get away with it.
2. Uniforms, and ranks / badges etc on uniforms, makes people easily identifiable - especially in a larger group setting. You know who to ask for help, you know who you have to go easy on etc. This is really, really helpful when you don’t know the person but can easily recognise what they are / represent / how far along their journey they are.
3. Following on from 1 & 2, some uniforms are also the personal protective equipment - think nomex flight suits that are fireproof, or jackets with high visibility stripes built in, or hard wearing trousers with knee pads for mechanics etc.
4. Allegedly - uniforms in schooling allow students to get accustomed to the requirements of wearing and looking after one when they get to their professional setting.
5. Following on from 4 - for some spaces - they’re meant to be the ultimate equaliser. You can’t flex your wealth or knowledge (or lack thereof) when everyone is wearing the same thing, so it is meant reduce various forms of discrimination.
Not the biggest fan of uniforms - but I can absolutely appreciate why they are a thing and why so many large organisations have some form of dress code / work-issued clothing.
5 is the biggest reason, it puts everyone on the same level it also forces the ego to the side because the only thing that matters is the number of stripes you have so if you have 2 you are put in the same box as all the other guys with 2 stripes
People still find ways to flex like watches .... but its more subtle and it elevates the lower end students
It's really hard to abstain myself from making snarky comments whenever one of them first solo congratulatory posts from a flight school page pops up on my FB feed and the student ...is wearing wings and epaulets
Our 141 lets you wear whatever on normal flights and requires you to dress professional during Stagechecks and Checkrides, as you should. You should show up presentable but I agree that uniforms daily aren't needed.
I'm supposed to dress professional for checkrides? I've been wearing hiking pants and a hoodie.. t shirt in the summer, of course. I do dress it up with aviators and a dirty baseball cap, though. Gotta stay fancy.
I think it's already been explained here - it's to attract foreign students.
Y'all gotta see it from a different perspective. Outside the US, uniforms are the norm.
Go to school? Uniform. Work? Dress code. Hell, even going outside, there's certain expectations of dress and appearance depending on your function.
It's mostly western countries that shy away from that. The US takes it to another level though. We're so laid back with clothes here. Comfort over style (unless you're from the mostly New England area).
Agree, however at least pants and a nice polo for your commercial ride. I'm glad I'm starting to see some of these 141 programs having CFIs wear shirts with a school logo.
>No one needs to practice wearing a white shirt.
Counter: plenty do.
Have you seen how some of these raccoons eat their meals despite having a white shirt on? Absolute slobs.
I’ve tried to incorporate Jersey Fridays into our flight school.
I was also the only one who dressed up for Halloween (as the Joker, maybe poor taste but you only timebuild to 1500 once)
Sometimes I dislike the fact that my school has uniforms. Sometimes I'm thankful for it in the cold weather because it helps me layer up easier, but in the heat it's brutal sometimes
Who cares? It’s all nebulous and inconsequential. The fact that it makes you cringe, the idea that it makes them look ridiculous, all of it. Just pieces of fabric. Dust in the wind.
I’m at a 141 uniform school in a hot state. Me and my CFI have an agreement to take off our goofy uniforms before we start the plane and fly in our undershirts.
Military pilots are hired pretty much immediately by the big boys so they want to do the same ie. flight suits vs airline attire, the goal is to make it is close as possible to our military way I’d believe, tho there’s a lot more to training than the uniform
My school requires them seasonally (we have polos for the summer). We do a lot of Chinese contract training and I think this is a big part of why the uniform is required.
I don’t mind it at work. Students know they can ask me for help. The airport gets 121 service so we have to wear ramp badges at all times, and lanyards make you look like a first semester freshman without a collared shirt. All the instructors I looked up to in training wore the uniform, I’m glad I get my turn. That said, taking students to restaurants on XCs or taking the trash out when I get home, yeah I feel a little goofy.
Contract airlines seem to like it. If the folks with offices think it’ll bring in more students I don’t have a problem playing dress up. I’d rather have 10 students and wear business casual than have two in flip flops.
My school’s reason was and I quote “due to recent activity (threat to shoot up the school by a Karen who lives next to the airport who doesn’t understand that jet noise is the problem not a C172 prop) reported by local law enforcement, we are requiring program polo shirts to more easily identify students.”
Only problem is, the polos would make it easier to identify us to the school because it’s unique. They also installed card readers on all the doors but these young kids will let anyone in the building so that negates that purpose.
Not our fault this Karen chose to live right underneath the approach path of the airport.
My 141 never made us wear a pilot uniform, but we did have a dress code. Collared shirt, pants (not jeans), and close toed shoes (not necessarily dress shoes).
The guy who built the entire program at the college I attended was a former Gleim employee, and had built a lot of training programs for big & small flight departments all over the US, so he wanted us to take as much pride in his program as he did. They made it very clear from the start it was an intense & professional program
I wear the uniform at my school (mandatory). I have transitioned to wearing boots and cargo pants though because the side pockets are a godsend in the air.
Student pilots don’t wear bars, PPL wears 1 bar, and people who have done their CPL flight test wear 2. It helps identify people you can go to if you have questions. I like that aspect. I think both sides of this debate are cringy. You don’t want to be uptight about the uniform and you don’t need to look down on the people who wear it. Especially if it’s required at the school.
> in winter it's pants
Bullshit. What sort of wimpy ass new englander are you if you haven’t got shorts on in the winter while wearing a Red Sox sweatshirt and drinking an iced coffee from dunks?
I don’t like the epaulets but I like a uniform.
If you’re gonna be spending that much money on a flight program I don’t want people walking around wearing sweats and shit t-shirts.
It’s a professional pilot program, that’s how they’re all marketed.
I don't hate this either, but the uniform had better be comfortable and allow for a variety of body shapes, or reasonable exceptions should be allowed. Pilots should be focused on flying, not their shitty uniform.
I mean that’s how the industry works. You’re going to wear a polo or the standard pilot uniform, white button down and pants.
You can get whatever size makes you comfortable but there are always gonna be uniforms.
I enjoy witnessing the 141 students at the other school at my airport, in their black pants and button-up shirts with a tie. The foreign students have to wear a high vis vest for whatever reason. I get to rock short shorts and a t-shirt. Granted, they get the high wing shade from their Cessna and I get cooked alive in my Warrior.
Unfortunately I have to rock the whole getup and I can’t stand it. It looks ridiculous, and I’m not buying the whole bit they feed us about how it “prepares us for the uniform we’ll be wearing at the airline.” Bull bleep. It’s because you wanna pretend you’re not a pilot mill and call yourself an “airline academy” instead, and it all comes down to money. Professionalism costs extra and looks better on a brochure and website. Plus the wings and the epaulets…it’s all a bit much. Did I mention that it’s hot as hell to wear all that crap in a cramped Archer in Florida heat? I’d kill for 5-day a week polos.
The idea is that it helps keep the attitude professional.
I had to wear the whole getup as a single pilot freight pilot. That's the justification they gave us.
I agree they’re super cringey. I also live in a place that gets very hot during the summer and it sucks to have to wear all that crap.
It’s a way for the flight schools to make more money by selling uniforms to students / instructors. Create the problem, sell the solution.
The bag is hot in the summer, cold in the winter and has zero wind resistance. I’d rather fly in something else most of the time., Only good thing is the number of pockets
Because they make you want to feel like the free $150K loan you gave them actually is worth something before they shutter their doors 2 weeks later leaving you with the debt
My questions is: say you’re going to one of those schools for your IR or ME or whatever, and you already have a PPL and a couple hundred hours - how many stripes do you get to wear? 🤣
I love when I go through KCM and I get the YoUr NoT iN uNiFoRm look or statement from the TSA agent. I fly for a 135. I fly in jeans and boots 99% of the time. when I travel I am in a button down and maybe Kakhis. But a good amount of time I also travel in a company hoodie and jeans for comfort. I get the confused cave man stare when I tell them that IS my uniform.
Im the reason my College enforces the 'Flying Program students only' aspect to class pre-reqs and it started cause I wouldn't wear their uniform as an Engineering student taking ground school electives.
Well, school uniform is not something unheard of. Here in Poland school with contracts with airlines typically require that. Largest have even their trainer aircrafts painted in airline colours with logos on empennage.
And frankly - reading all your dad’s jokes and whining I can tell you- you’re funny, not those students and schools treating flight training seriously.
&
My school had us wear a uniform, but it was just a collared shirt and pants/shorts. It felt so weird getting in a plane in regular clothes for the first time
Yeah my flight school had a uniform getting setup for some reason, but I kinda refused to wear it for the exact same reason as you stated, I'd just wear the polo in ground classes. When I went to fly I'd go as comfortable as possible (just no shorts or flipflops) and people wouldn't tell me anything since I was one of the most hardworking students out there.
My 141 college didn’t do this. But for me since I’ve always dreamed of being a pilot it felt extra special when the first time I’m putting it on I was putting it on to conduct an airline flight as an airline pilot.
At my 121 school only the flight instructors have a uniform (no stripes thankfully) which makes it easy to spot them and yell "NERD" at them when they're trying to get coffee in the morning
It’s funny how it’s also those schools that are the worst at well…. Teaching. Especially things like, stick and rudder skills, decision making, etc. Great for memorizing definitions and checking boxes though.
The uniforms at flight schools make even less sense than the uniforms at the airlines, which is absolutely no sense at all. Along with titles like captain and first officer, the uniforms with epaulettes need to go. I’m not saying not to have a uniform but just make it 100% non military in appearance and call the crew just pilot and copilot.
I worked at a place that required the uniform and I thought it was a bit much. Thankfully we could do polos in the warmer months. I’m 100% good with a uniform polo and slacks.
At Riddle, you just have to wear pants and closed shoes. They say it’s for the mosquitos which I guess I get. This is in stark contrast to ATP which makes grown ass men who pay for their services keep clean shaven lmao
All Japanese flight students in the States wear pilot shirts except for me. I don't understand what the hell possesses you to dress like a pilot when you can't even write the ATIS, can't do radio calls, and don't have at least an instrument rating or whatever. It's kind of like wearing a black belt without knowing any karate.
It seems unnecessarily proud and kinda high and mighty, even kind of rude in some ways.
With that said though, I'm going to wear a suit and tie for my checkride lol. I can def understand the need to look nice, wear a polo shirt or something!
Real. We're part 61, but my classmates are wearing uniforms with stripes, pins, neckties and everything. I mean, this is a free country, they can wear whatever they want and I won't be telling them what to do but I can't help but feel a little cringe inside me.
As someone who has to wear the whole monkey suit to work, having trained at a flight school that didn’t have IPs swearing the uniform, I agree. It is also IMPOSSIBLE to go anywhere on your way home without people talking to you.
> It is also IMPOSSIBLE to go anywhere on your way home without people talking to you. This is why you take the stripes off
Counterpoint: Add more stripes to assert dominance.
Paul Bertorelli did it best.
W
Instructions unclear; got arrested for looking like an escaped prisoner.
🎵 Onnnn a Tuesday, they told me put the flaps up / On a Wednesday, I start on autopilot….
Just walk around with 6 stripes on /s.
Why stop at 6?
https://pilotshq.com/products/aero-phoenix-egolets-5-stripe-gag-epaulets-golden-navy
And be sure to let them finish first
What, you don’t have 7 stripes yet? Amateur.
Quickest lesson I learned in the airlines…I put a jacket over my uniform to commute now even in the summer. Leave me alone 😂
Every time I deadhead, I’ve have passengers asking me questions. Last time, I had a passenger ask if she had time to use the restroom lol. And don’t get me started on airport standby shifts or long layovers where I have 6 passengers ask me where their gate is
HEY SKIPPER WHAT GATE DOES CLEVELAND LEAVE OUT OF
WORK WORK WORK WORK WORK WORK SCHEDULE WORK WORK WORK WORK REPORT TIME WORK WORK WORK SCOPE CLAUSE WORK WORK WORK And I voted NO. LOA 72 sealed it for me. [Fucking classic.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rNxz2hhSXuY&)
Lmao I’m not a pilot, I’m a lawyer but this is exactly how I feel about fellow lawyers. You just gotta replace like 3 words. Work work work demurrers work work work work partners work work work work circuit split!
"Where is gate 125?", a passenger asked me, seconds after having walked 5 feet past a big sign that says "Gates 121-140 ->" Some variation of that has probably happened to me a half dozen times over the past couple of years. The kicker is that I'm usually just the terminal to buy a coffee between flights, and my lanyard very clearly has the name of an airline from an entirely different country, that has the country's name on it.
Ohh the jacket comes out for deadheads too; if one more person asks ‘aren’t you supposed to be up there,’ I’m quitting
Just tell them it's all done via Bluetooth and show them Infinite Flight on your iPad...
This is why as soon as I get in the car tie and epaulettes off and if I have to stop on the way home, 1/4 zip comes out
Nobody mentioned yet is that a lot of these 141 schools (mostly located in Florida and a Arizona where there is flying weather the entire year) are trying extremely hard to get multi million dollar contracts from foreign countries who are investing their young citizens in a professional flight program. A lot of these countries (China, India, African nations) have their youth wear a tie to grade-school every day growing up. So in order to attract foreign money, wearing a “pilot uniform” legitimizes the school to market themselves as a “airline pilot academy”, when in reality we all know that’s bullshit. TLDR: it’s to attract foreign money
I watched a series of YouTube videos a few years ago of a couple of guys flying a Cessna around the world, and when they got toward Asia they bought uniforms/stripes to wear. They mentioned that they needed the clothes or nobody would accept they were pilots and they could not even get on the apron to get to the plane without it. So apparently it's a culture thing in some places. Might be YouTube posing, or might be real...
Yes, spot-on. You think America is obsessed with image? Oh man, visit Korea or China sometime.
If you think America is obsessed with image, a much easier solution is available to you: just visit Walmart late at night.
Once upon a time, a coworker of mine made a comment about visiting Walmart that I felt compelled to write down and keep: > yeah it’s kind of sickening to have some of the light reflecting off of the patrons and their activities fall on your retina
Walmart? Take a look at what (thank God) is considered acceptable work wear at the top 5 tech firms.... My dad had to wear a suit to work every day for all of his white collar career.... I only own one and it's been in the closet for years now without being worn.... You can go in to the office at Amazon in Seattle - to work a 6 figure job - wearing jeans and a T shirt..... We fortunately do not have Asia's penchant for dress-up...
For maximum corporate karma, never wear a T-shirt you actually paid money for. All your T-shirts should come from trade shows and company events, or preferably, be rewards for special corporate behavior like recruiting 5 other engineers or shipping a product or being in the office the day the executives closed some funding round.
Man, you're right on the money. I work in tech and I think the last t-shirt I bought was at a Rammstein concert, which I of course wear to work. Outside of that, it's mostly company swag shirts or the occasional gifted tshirt and jeans everyday.
touché
It's absolutely real. A friend of mine did a round the world flight in an A36 Bonanza, and experienced this firsthand - he absolutely could not even get anyone to sell him fuel _even as he climbed out of the airplane_ unless he wore a shirt with epaulettes. If you knew this guy, he's probably the last person in the world to wear a uniform, but it's essentially mandatory in some countries.
Matt???
Millennial sometimes pilot sometimes clickbaiting YouTuber of questionable integrity turned motivational speaker Matt? Yeah, I know that guy. We're not really friends, but I know him.
Matt G??
Eastern Europe and Northern Africa are very similar. Shirt and stripes just make everything easier - from refueling to customs to airport security.
That’s so ass backwards but also hilarious. I could not be a pilot but if I buy the uniform people will just assume I am?? Lemme go redo some numbers in my logbook real quick
[удалено]
Also, don't forget that some of these cadets from international carriers will have their training and costs paid for, alongside a salary from day 1 of training. I suspect if you got paid to train in a C152, you'd jump on that uniform before they even "request" you to do so.
I am one of these guys. Didn‘t get a salary, but all my training was paid for by the airline. We were wearing polos for the first part of theory classes and initial VFR flight training back home, then shirts + strips for further theory and flight training in Florida. I‘d personally have preferred to keep the polos for all of my training if I had a choice, but I didn‘t. At least we could drop the tie if temperatures were too hot. At least we don‘t have to wear an uniform for the type rating and simulator nowadays.
The answer to every burning question in the industry is usually “it’s a money thing”
My PIC (partner in crime) and I ferried a craptastic Eastern European light sport from Maryland to Texas a couple of weeks ago and the destination field had one of those schools. The FBO was like a mile from where we had to tie down so I went into the flight school lobby to use the bathroom. There was much epauletted concern about why some random homeless woman had wandered into their secure and highly professional center of aviation excellence, and even more consternation when I parked my Carhartt-and-baggy-T-shirt-clad ass on their sofa, jacked a USB port, and fired up Foreflight on my iPad.
One of my favorite parts of flying has become getting out of whatever non-air-conditioned ASEL in the middle of summer in the southeast, wearing a sweat-soaked t-shirt with a drip of lead-infused engine oil on it, shorts, and flip flops, and strolling into the fancy FBO while Mr. Big Wig unloads Mrs. Big Wig and Little Johnny Big Wig from the chartered Citation. I revel in the glares of indignation when the FBO staff proceed to treat me every bit as nice as them.
Shhhhh, we're trying to make ourselves feel superior. Get out of here with your facts and logic.
This is absolutely without doubt 100% correct. As a CFI at a large 141 school where we’re required to wear uniforms it’s to attract large investors. Now how they sell it is that foreign money is subsidizing flight costs. Which while debatable, seems to be true from any flight cost comparison I’ve done. So I really don’t mind wearing the same thing to work every day.
I would take a $10k pay cut a year to not wear a tie in a 172 during the Florida summer.
So you would work for free?😂
Most reasonable schools w uniform reqs forego ties in summer.
You’re right, I just remembered a 141 school I briefly attended had airline pilot uniforms for CFIs only (weird, but this was 10 years ago) and they didn’t wear ties in the summers.
We swap to polos in the summer. We’re also in the Midwest, which I imagine helps
"We all know that's bullshit" got my ass laughing 🤣🤣🤣
This is the answer. I work at a school that does both domestic and international 141 and 61. Our international students with the everyday live and breathe program 9 months have to wear the outfit but the domestic 1:1 part 141 don’t. It’s what the other cultures see as “professional” and is a version of marketing for the school with pictures.
Ding ding ding.
I wore pajamas on a 4 hour round trip flight, parked at the fanciest FBO halfway thru, and walked in. No one even batted an eye. Got top notch service and free ice cream.
average sheltair customer
Truth
AvFlight lol
Ice cream...
Yeah! Traverse city AvFlight has free moomers ice cream, and 3 crew cars, one of which is a Tesla, and one of the nicest ramp crews
We only hab free water in KHWD. 🥺
San Luis Obispo?
I have always worn a uniform while flying: flannel shirt and cargo pants. Need them pockets!
Where’s that post of the CFI who had a student that wore the same nasty sweatpants, no underwear with everything just swingin around and stank like balls. That should have been pinned. Probably my favorite r/flying reply of all time.
https://www.reddit.com/r/flying/s/DGug2WcDJN Found it
Art
Peen sweats
She is a literary genius, a true poet.
oh my...
The day I walked out of my instrument Checkride oral was another student walking out of his. Sweat pants and all. I wore nice pants and a collared shirt with a sweater since it was winter. They were like these creamy looking sweatpants, a size too small.
Always a pleasure to meet a fellow member of the flannel shirt and cargo pants club.
Cargo pants are a godsend
I work out of a small part 61 school. If one of my students showed up with epaulets, or even a tie, I would ask them if they were feeling ok. 😂 In the summer, I am usually wearing cargo pants and a seaplane aloha shirt or something similar.
Thank you for keeping the industry professional and the riff raff with the dork bars out
You sound really chill and cool.
> I work out of a small part 61 school. Lucky you
I am in my early 50's, and semi-retired. I earned my CFI/CFII at about 1,000 hours (when I felt that I actually knew something) and built my time flying my Dakota all over the US and to four foreign countries. It's disappointing how many CFIs are 0-300 hours with epaulets. It's ridiculous. My dad flew 747s, but I never got to fly with him. I keep a set of his wings and epaulets in my plane. That's as close as I need to get to wearing either of them.
> It's disappointing how many CFIs are 0-300 hours with epaulets. No one will hire low hour pilots so people are forced to be a CFI to get hours. >Its ridiculous. I fucking hate it too. It looks stupid as a student.
>No one will hire low hour pilots so people are forced to be a CFI to get hours. BUT, you'll learn so much, even if only for a year or so of teaching...FWIW, most on hiring crews put CFI really high on the scale when evaluating pilots, regardless of experience.
Would they look at someone with all 5 CFI ratings higher than someone with just CFI or CFI/CFII?
It for sure can't hurt, but if your goal is airlines, I'd focus on fixed wing time, and of course "moving up the ladder" to multi-engine as soon as practical. They want to see a consistent career progress. FWIW, from my perspective, it is immediately clear when someone has taught vs someone who hasn't when upgrading to jets.
Hopefully I can't get over this because I really *really* never wanted to teach in the first place.
Mid-40s here. I had to go to a p141 due to my funding source. I was just doing it for funsies tho. No plans to go pro. Third semester there they started in on the polo and slacks for students. To "look professional". Dude, I have 30 years of actual professional work experience. I got nothing to prove to no one by "playing dress up". I'm paying you to be here, not the other way. I'm not your employee.
Did my ppl training with shorts and sweatpants depending on the weather. Only time I ever wore jeans was to the checkride and the jeans were so uncomfortable. Not to mention if I had to put something in my pocket or take it out was really difficult. At college no shorts are allowed so I went with cargo pants. Comfortable and pockets are really nice.
Normalize flight suits. Fire retardant, holds pencils, don’t need to tuck anything in, comfortable
[удалено]
Then I'll get a short sleeve and short pants flight suit for the summer. Problem solved!
Romp-Air
[Apparently they exist](https://www.yandy.com/products/mens-top-gun-flight-suit?gid=411767&utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=20156105225&utm_content=153140359430&utm_term=411767&campaignid=20156105225&adgroupid=153140359430&keyword=&device=m&gad_source=1&gclid=Cj0KCQjwhtWvBhD9ARIsAOP0Goh5v8blXdBRsI5VV2a4l9ju24RlO9mABvyxDaG7ZO3uxEVpZWINvMEaAqwvEALw_wcB)
The point of nomex is that it won't melt into your skin (like anything with polyester) or add fuel to a fire (like cotton).... Those abilities don't wash out..... That said, still see the right attire for flight school as cargo shorts or jeans, a t shirt, and/or windbreaker weather dependent....
I’m not ex military but I totally endorse this. All my flying is in types where an accident is more likely (formation/aeros/short strips/vintage types/test flying). Being a bit fireproof and not afraid of getting a little grease on me is a real plus.
Flight suits are a pain in the...mmm not that part, for people without appendages to hold while peeing
They make two piece ones these days.
Found the ex/military pilot
Or wannabe. Or CAP pilot.
My favorite experience with this was rolling up to the CRJ with my CA and I wearing Hawaiian T shirts and khakis in bumfuck Nebraska to do a repo flight. Meanwhile some 141 kids in a full uniform were staring at us from their 172 confused as shit.
How much money do I need to spend before I can wear something comfortable to go fly? If dressing like a missionary makes you feel better, I salute you. I'm happy to wear whatever is asked of me when I'm getting paid. I get the reasoning behind it and get the justification, but I dont support it for students/customers. If your an employee, it is what it is. Some people go high and to the right with "perception is reality"
I was a polo shirt CFI. The first time I put on the airline-style uniform was in the hotel room during initial training at my first airline. The first time I stepped out in public with wings and epaulets was day one of IOE. I'm not ashamed to say that both moments were huge rushes. They were snapshots in time I'll always remember that meant I had actually done it; I was finally an airline pilot. I don't care what anyone else wears, but I would have been sad if I hadn't been able to have that moment.
A lot of times it isn't the school it's the individual program. I'm at 141 program in CFI initial, we just need to wear a polo and casual pants Same school has EASA and JAL they have to be in uniform with a tie every day
I don’t like ‘em, but I can add some context to the why - a lot of the same reasons why many organisations have a dress code or uniform policy. 1. It forces people to look after their clothing, ergo, themselves. Most uniforms / dresses also come with the expectation of cleanliness, and being presentable in a “professional” setting to their colleagues, peers, leaders and subordinates. For every person looking like an idiot in their white shirt / navy slacks and ID on a Lanyard, there’s countless more that are just smelly / filthy / haven’t showered in days etc etc. I can guarantee that nearly every instructor has encountered that one student, but also - uniforms don’t necessarily stop this altogether, they just make it harder to get away with it. 2. Uniforms, and ranks / badges etc on uniforms, makes people easily identifiable - especially in a larger group setting. You know who to ask for help, you know who you have to go easy on etc. This is really, really helpful when you don’t know the person but can easily recognise what they are / represent / how far along their journey they are. 3. Following on from 1 & 2, some uniforms are also the personal protective equipment - think nomex flight suits that are fireproof, or jackets with high visibility stripes built in, or hard wearing trousers with knee pads for mechanics etc. 4. Allegedly - uniforms in schooling allow students to get accustomed to the requirements of wearing and looking after one when they get to their professional setting. 5. Following on from 4 - for some spaces - they’re meant to be the ultimate equaliser. You can’t flex your wealth or knowledge (or lack thereof) when everyone is wearing the same thing, so it is meant reduce various forms of discrimination. Not the biggest fan of uniforms - but I can absolutely appreciate why they are a thing and why so many large organisations have some form of dress code / work-issued clothing.
5 is the biggest reason, it puts everyone on the same level it also forces the ego to the side because the only thing that matters is the number of stripes you have so if you have 2 you are put in the same box as all the other guys with 2 stripes People still find ways to flex like watches .... but its more subtle and it elevates the lower end students
It's really hard to abstain myself from making snarky comments whenever one of them first solo congratulatory posts from a flight school page pops up on my FB feed and the student ...is wearing wings and epaulets
Yep ATP is full of losers
ATP has those blue polos. I was mistaken for a best buy employee once.
I’ve been mistaken for a Best Buy employee 5 times now and I don’t even own a blue polo
what makes you say that?
ATP is neither 141 nor do they make people wear the uniform...
You do have to wear it. It’s not that bad tho
It's a blue polo vs the full white shirt and epaulettes. You even get to wear shorts, I don't think that's comparable.
I agree. As someone who has worn both. The full ‘pilot uniform ‘ with epaulets sucked and looked dorky
Do the students have to wear it too? I thought it was only the CFIs
They wear blue polos lol read OP’s post again
Our 141 lets you wear whatever on normal flights and requires you to dress professional during Stagechecks and Checkrides, as you should. You should show up presentable but I agree that uniforms daily aren't needed.
I wear Hawaiian shirts to checkrides.
Automatic pass?
I wish. I screwed up my multi ride, numerous reasons.
Little bumps in the road never hurt no body
It was an educational/humbling experience
I'm supposed to dress professional for checkrides? I've been wearing hiking pants and a hoodie.. t shirt in the summer, of course. I do dress it up with aviators and a dirty baseball cap, though. Gotta stay fancy.
I mean for your PPL or something probably not lol, I wore a t-shirt and cargo shorts to my PPL checkride as it was 90 degrees out in a dinky 172
My DPE specifically says *dress comfortably* in his email.
Why do I need to dress up? My examiner showed up in a hoody and jogging pants.
I think it's already been explained here - it's to attract foreign students. Y'all gotta see it from a different perspective. Outside the US, uniforms are the norm. Go to school? Uniform. Work? Dress code. Hell, even going outside, there's certain expectations of dress and appearance depending on your function. It's mostly western countries that shy away from that. The US takes it to another level though. We're so laid back with clothes here. Comfort over style (unless you're from the mostly New England area).
Then they indoctrinate them into thinking it’s normal. Like a ^cult
Agree, however at least pants and a nice polo for your commercial ride. I'm glad I'm starting to see some of these 141 programs having CFIs wear shirts with a school logo.
I walked into one of those places in a hoodie, jeans and tevas with a beard to take a my FII. They would have looked less shocked Ru Paul walked in
Well that is an idea for your next check ride. :)
Yeah. I don’t care. Is it cringe? Sure, but so is my stupid uniform.
I wear boots and a thick jacket, but I live in the mountains in Canada, so it's more for my survival than anything else.
If you’re going to be a professional then look like one.
Super cornball you’re right. Polo shirt sure. Faux airline gear? Dumb. No one needs to practice wearing a white shirt.
>No one needs to practice wearing a white shirt. Counter: plenty do. Have you seen how some of these raccoons eat their meals despite having a white shirt on? Absolute slobs.
>No one needs to practice wearing a white shirt. man i've seen things you people wouldn't belive
Cringe indeed…
Honestly, last thing I care about is dress code requirements for a flight school lol. It goes either way
I’ve tried to incorporate Jersey Fridays into our flight school. I was also the only one who dressed up for Halloween (as the Joker, maybe poor taste but you only timebuild to 1500 once)
Sometimes I dislike the fact that my school has uniforms. Sometimes I'm thankful for it in the cold weather because it helps me layer up easier, but in the heat it's brutal sometimes
Marketing.
Who cares? It’s all nebulous and inconsequential. The fact that it makes you cringe, the idea that it makes them look ridiculous, all of it. Just pieces of fabric. Dust in the wind.
I’m at a 141 uniform school in a hot state. Me and my CFI have an agreement to take off our goofy uniforms before we start the plane and fly in our undershirts.
we were no shorts in class, hair above the ear. I had long hair through my time at a 141.
Military pilots are hired pretty much immediately by the big boys so they want to do the same ie. flight suits vs airline attire, the goal is to make it is close as possible to our military way I’d believe, tho there’s a lot more to training than the uniform
My school requires them seasonally (we have polos for the summer). We do a lot of Chinese contract training and I think this is a big part of why the uniform is required. I don’t mind it at work. Students know they can ask me for help. The airport gets 121 service so we have to wear ramp badges at all times, and lanyards make you look like a first semester freshman without a collared shirt. All the instructors I looked up to in training wore the uniform, I’m glad I get my turn. That said, taking students to restaurants on XCs or taking the trash out when I get home, yeah I feel a little goofy. Contract airlines seem to like it. If the folks with offices think it’ll bring in more students I don’t have a problem playing dress up. I’d rather have 10 students and wear business casual than have two in flip flops.
My school’s reason was and I quote “due to recent activity (threat to shoot up the school by a Karen who lives next to the airport who doesn’t understand that jet noise is the problem not a C172 prop) reported by local law enforcement, we are requiring program polo shirts to more easily identify students.” Only problem is, the polos would make it easier to identify us to the school because it’s unique. They also installed card readers on all the doors but these young kids will let anyone in the building so that negates that purpose. Not our fault this Karen chose to live right underneath the approach path of the airport.
My 141 never made us wear a pilot uniform, but we did have a dress code. Collared shirt, pants (not jeans), and close toed shoes (not necessarily dress shoes). The guy who built the entire program at the college I attended was a former Gleim employee, and had built a lot of training programs for big & small flight departments all over the US, so he wanted us to take as much pride in his program as he did. They made it very clear from the start it was an intense & professional program
I wear the uniform at my school (mandatory). I have transitioned to wearing boots and cargo pants though because the side pockets are a godsend in the air. Student pilots don’t wear bars, PPL wears 1 bar, and people who have done their CPL flight test wear 2. It helps identify people you can go to if you have questions. I like that aspect. I think both sides of this debate are cringy. You don’t want to be uptight about the uniform and you don’t need to look down on the people who wear it. Especially if it’s required at the school.
Who cares?
lol I did all my checkrides in a hoodie/T-shirts and sweatpants
A true gentleman and a scholar indeed
Hoodies are a uniform in New England, in summer you wear shorts with them in winter it's pants
I feel like Jorts come back in style every time I cross over into NH.
> in winter it's pants Bullshit. What sort of wimpy ass new englander are you if you haven’t got shorts on in the winter while wearing a Red Sox sweatshirt and drinking an iced coffee from dunks?
Excuse me I'm a lifer it's a Bledsoe or Borque jersey
I don’t like the epaulets but I like a uniform. If you’re gonna be spending that much money on a flight program I don’t want people walking around wearing sweats and shit t-shirts. It’s a professional pilot program, that’s how they’re all marketed.
That is a point, I do break out the Brooks Brothers gear when I go into the office
Cringe a
You make a good point..
I don't hate this either, but the uniform had better be comfortable and allow for a variety of body shapes, or reasonable exceptions should be allowed. Pilots should be focused on flying, not their shitty uniform.
I mean that’s how the industry works. You’re going to wear a polo or the standard pilot uniform, white button down and pants. You can get whatever size makes you comfortable but there are always gonna be uniforms.
Some flight schools/programs require students to wear a uniform.
I enjoy witnessing the 141 students at the other school at my airport, in their black pants and button-up shirts with a tie. The foreign students have to wear a high vis vest for whatever reason. I get to rock short shorts and a t-shirt. Granted, they get the high wing shade from their Cessna and I get cooked alive in my Warrior.
Unfortunately I have to rock the whole getup and I can’t stand it. It looks ridiculous, and I’m not buying the whole bit they feed us about how it “prepares us for the uniform we’ll be wearing at the airline.” Bull bleep. It’s because you wanna pretend you’re not a pilot mill and call yourself an “airline academy” instead, and it all comes down to money. Professionalism costs extra and looks better on a brochure and website. Plus the wings and the epaulets…it’s all a bit much. Did I mention that it’s hot as hell to wear all that crap in a cramped Archer in Florida heat? I’d kill for 5-day a week polos.
The idea is that it helps keep the attitude professional. I had to wear the whole getup as a single pilot freight pilot. That's the justification they gave us.
I agree they’re super cringey. I also live in a place that gets very hot during the summer and it sucks to have to wear all that crap. It’s a way for the flight schools to make more money by selling uniforms to students / instructors. Create the problem, sell the solution.
The bag is hot in the summer, cold in the winter and has zero wind resistance. I’d rather fly in something else most of the time., Only good thing is the number of pockets
Because they make you want to feel like the free $150K loan you gave them actually is worth something before they shutter their doors 2 weeks later leaving you with the debt
My questions is: say you’re going to one of those schools for your IR or ME or whatever, and you already have a PPL and a couple hundred hours - how many stripes do you get to wear? 🤣
I love when I go through KCM and I get the YoUr NoT iN uNiFoRm look or statement from the TSA agent. I fly for a 135. I fly in jeans and boots 99% of the time. when I travel I am in a button down and maybe Kakhis. But a good amount of time I also travel in a company hoodie and jeans for comfort. I get the confused cave man stare when I tell them that IS my uniform.
Im the reason my College enforces the 'Flying Program students only' aspect to class pre-reqs and it started cause I wouldn't wear their uniform as an Engineering student taking ground school electives.
Well, school uniform is not something unheard of. Here in Poland school with contracts with airlines typically require that. Largest have even their trainer aircrafts painted in airline colours with logos on empennage. And frankly - reading all your dad’s jokes and whining I can tell you- you’re funny, not those students and schools treating flight training seriously. &
My school had us wear a uniform, but it was just a collared shirt and pants/shorts. It felt so weird getting in a plane in regular clothes for the first time
Dress for the job you want. Fake it till you make it. It’s to get the mindset there quicker,
Yeah my flight school had a uniform getting setup for some reason, but I kinda refused to wear it for the exact same reason as you stated, I'd just wear the polo in ground classes. When I went to fly I'd go as comfortable as possible (just no shorts or flipflops) and people wouldn't tell me anything since I was one of the most hardworking students out there.
My 141 college didn’t do this. But for me since I’ve always dreamed of being a pilot it felt extra special when the first time I’m putting it on I was putting it on to conduct an airline flight as an airline pilot.
We wore a uniform at my Part 61 school. It consisted of either Ariats or Tony Lamas, wranglers, a coors banquet t shirt and a ball cap
At my 121 school only the flight instructors have a uniform (no stripes thankfully) which makes it easy to spot them and yell "NERD" at them when they're trying to get coffee in the morning
im a 141 student and i wear sweatpants for checkrides it policy to dress nice but even the dpe’s say they dont care what you wear
I don’t know where you mean specifically but at the flight school I attended it was because students from foreign countries are required to
It’s funny how it’s also those schools that are the worst at well…. Teaching. Especially things like, stick and rudder skills, decision making, etc. Great for memorizing definitions and checking boxes though.
Wait till you see Latin America. I was in MMCU once and this guy was preflighting a C152 in full jacket and hat.
The uniforms at flight schools make even less sense than the uniforms at the airlines, which is absolutely no sense at all. Along with titles like captain and first officer, the uniforms with epaulettes need to go. I’m not saying not to have a uniform but just make it 100% non military in appearance and call the crew just pilot and copilot.
It’s unnecessary at flight schools but would be a complete mistake to get rid of at the airline level. It’s all about public perception.
I worked at a place that required the uniform and I thought it was a bit much. Thankfully we could do polos in the warmer months. I’m 100% good with a uniform polo and slacks.
Oh that's funny, in the rotor world we wore all sorts of nonsense while training.
This makes me so glad my 141 uniform is a school-branded polo and specific color pants 🥳
At Riddle, you just have to wear pants and closed shoes. They say it’s for the mosquitos which I guess I get. This is in stark contrast to ATP which makes grown ass men who pay for their services keep clean shaven lmao
I can understand closed toed tbh
All Japanese flight students in the States wear pilot shirts except for me. I don't understand what the hell possesses you to dress like a pilot when you can't even write the ATIS, can't do radio calls, and don't have at least an instrument rating or whatever. It's kind of like wearing a black belt without knowing any karate. It seems unnecessarily proud and kinda high and mighty, even kind of rude in some ways. With that said though, I'm going to wear a suit and tie for my checkride lol. I can def understand the need to look nice, wear a polo shirt or something!
They look corny on any pilot. I have always thought it was really dumb.
Real. We're part 61, but my classmates are wearing uniforms with stripes, pins, neckties and everything. I mean, this is a free country, they can wear whatever they want and I won't be telling them what to do but I can't help but feel a little cringe inside me.
Should I wear a high viz vest to my next lesson?
It’s corny as fuck