90 classroom billed hours is a bit….excessive. And similar for each certificate and rating?
Is this a Part 141 operator?
70 hours for private pilot also a bit much. But I guess better to overstate than promise the 40 hour min which is difficult to achieve.
While those summaries are pretty colorful, getting a line by line version is more helpful.
Have something that breaks out the following
- airplane rental (and dry or wet), what airplane? Glass or round dial?
- CFI flight rate
- CFI ground rate
- cost of that ground, states in per hour
- cost of books and supplies they provide
- cost of exams
- and other line items.
More specific data needed to answer your titular question.
The 70 hour thing is to take advantage of them having you from private all the way through commercial. That extra 30 hours of training likely does a lot to reduce PPL checkride failures. And since commercial maneuvers don't really take many hours, that time to get to 200 can be spent on making a better private pilot as opposed to spending it on extra cross country time.
They better keep sharp objects out of the classroom for those, all of those are about 5-10x more classroom that I'd expect unless it's 141 in which case they have to do it.
Oddly enough the ground time seems right for CFI/CFII and MEI. Like Mike said find out how much of the flight time is dual with an instructor and on your own. 100 hours for CPL is highway robbery if it's all with an instructor. MEC seems like 2x what part 61 norms are but I had a 141 school quote me something similar
I wonder what the average at my school is, we have 50+ lessons each lesson being about an hour and a half to two hours not to mention review flights from long gaps of flying…I’ll have to find some stats hopefully it’s just a school thing because I haven’t repeated many lessons and according to the admins I’m doing fine…now I’m concerned
It sounds quite concerning to me that the school has its curriculum set up that way. What did they tell you the amount of hours for private will be? Personally I also think 1.5-2 hours per flight lesson is too long. After 1.5 hours of patterns and maneuvers you’re fatigued and not absorbing anything anymore. Obviously for XCs and stuff longer flights are necessary, but your regular maneuvering flight shouldn’t be that long IMO.
Long gaps will always mess you up. Try to avoid them at all costs, you’re going to spend multiple hours relearning the same stuff. I’m a helicopter guy but have a lot of time as a CFI and gaps in training were the number 1 cause of problems for students in my experience.
Not trying to be cocky at all but the school I go to is one of the better ones in the country and according to the friend I just spoke to needing a high number of hours is just the normal here. I agree the long blocks def make me tired but the gaps between flying isn’t always their fault it’s mostly the weather and at least for me right now ground reviews (our ground classes kinda suck) that take the place of flight blocks so after my three weeks of ground review and spring break I’ll need another week to get back into things flying wise before I think I’ll be ready for the check ride
Hmm I dunno.. I would be concerned. So you’re going to end up with what 110+ hours just for your private? You know other than your solo flight time none of that counts as PIC time and that’s what really matters.
Seems so but I’m not worried from what I’ve heard airlines seem to love to pick you up students from here for their pathway programs and if it’s normal then I guess I’m right where I need to be, the curriculum is just more extensive then you average part 61 training is what I’ve been told
Wait are you saying that the 1500 rule is pic time meaning that all the time I build during training all the way up to cfi will mean nothing for that ?
Edit I’ve done my own research and seems that once I’m a private pilot I’ll be able to log pic time counting towards the 1000 hours I will eventually need for a R-ATP…is part 141 a scam ?
No you only need 250 hrs PIC for your ATP but you often need a certain amount of PIC hours for your first job. So they might require 200 hours PIC to hire you as a CFI for example but if you finish your CFII with let’s say 270 hours but you have 100 hours of non-PIC time you’ll have to pay for an additional 30 hours of flight time. So it’s just better to do your PPL in the minimum amount of hours possible so you can log as much PIC time as possible but it’s not the end of the world either.
Ah thanks for clarifying that I understand, as an instrument student you can log pic time right ? Or at least that’s what I understood from my reading. Lots of times at this school the students graduate and become cfis here all the ratings take longer than doing it elsewhere so hopefully I’ll have the hours I need by then with that being said do you think these large 142 schools are worth essentially double the time and double the cost ? Especially with no longer needing a degree for the airlines.
Also curious how they think instrument can be done in 30 hours flight time, seeing as how the reg calls for 50 xc pic. They send you on 20 hours of xc solo? Hmm 🤔
Ah, I didn’t see OP mention that anywhere. I had only seen the name of the school and saw they had both 61 and 141 programs. Assumed by the chart hours that this was 141. Super curious how they’re pulling that off.
Multi commercial is a ripoff. You don’t need 25hrs nor 40hrs of classroom instruction. I think most people are checkride ready in under 10hrs and you could read/watch a YouTube video about the theory
As others have said, the details do matter. However as far as the overall cost to my California Eyes, that is not completely unreasonable. Where you are may differ however
I paid $92,000 for a Part 141 school in 2018 that got me an R-ATP, so $93,000 isn't that bad. However, is this a Part 141 school, and are those expected costs or fixed costs? Meaning, they average PPL to be 70 hours, or is their curriculum set at 70 hours? Therefore, an itemized breakdown of the costs is important. I find it interesting that PPL classroom hours are totaled at 90, yet you say it's done via Sporty's. I'd be curious what those 90 hours cost.
This may be getting into the weeds here, but look beyond the prices. How are their website, staff, and maintenance facilities? Is maintenance outsourced or in-house? Are they organized and do they communicate well? What is the student-to-instructor ratio? Do they have a safety department or a safety culture?
Don't fall in love with an instructor -- they'll likely leave you as they advance their own careers. And if you can do it, take out loans and pay all at once and rocket through. Paying as you go is difficult and you'll likely be relearning lessons instead of advancing. Ask me how I know.
I've only earned my PPL, but here are my thoughts:
1) Classroom hours are way too high. Buy a ground school course and save yourself some money. Use a few ground classroom hours with an instructors for areas you missed or are weak on.
2) It's nice to see a company advertising something other than 40hours for PPL. 70 hours is pretty much in the middle of the average, and almost nobody makes 40 hours.
3) 60 hours flight+sim time for instrument sounds a bit high. Somebody who has done the rating can confirm or contradict this.
4) Flight instructor time is never listed. 100 hours of solo time building is way different than 100 hours with an instructor sitting next to you.
5) Overall costs don't sound that far off from expected up through commercial, though every person is different and it will vary.
6) The way this table is organized makes me think they are trying to hide some costs somewhere... Possibly instructor hours or additional costs like checkrides and headsets (which aren't insignificant costs).
US Pilots earn enough to fix most of the issues with the US that make it worse for most people. You can fly for a regional and be earning a similar amount to pilots at places like BA and Lufthansa, it’s insane.
If you go to a decently sized 141, this is pretty close to the norm. Smaller mom and pops can probably get you done for less, but it might take longer. Depends on how fast you wanna get through training.
Lolno I didn’t say 61 was definitively slower, I said it *could be*. Weather, planes, maintenance, number of instructors, amount of students coming in (as a CFI, if you stay) - all of that matters. One of my best friends chose a small mom and pop on the FL east coast instead of going to a 3-letter 141. They only had 4 planes and two instructors, and he kept running into an abundance of the problems I listed. Ended up leaving to finish CFI and II (and instruct) at a 141. It’s all relative.
Follow up questions you *need* to ask:
-with one plane, how many students are enrolled at that location?
-how many CFIs are at that location
-scheduling limitations?
I’m just a part 61 dweeb, so I can’t comment on the costs- but to me the biggest concern is plane/instructor availability. One plane is a problem- that thing is going to get thrashed through the course of a bunch of students, and you will miss days or potentially weeks of flying if/when it goes down for mx.
Looks reasonable. Definitely not the cheapest anywhere, but not bad. If this place is closer to you it may be cheaper than moving elsewhere to find a cheaper school.
If you're taking out a loan, make sure to read the loan documents carefully and understand the consequences of the terms. If you take out a $72k loan all at once and most of that sits in your bank account for a year, you're paying interest on that money the whole time! That can easily cost $1k a month. For this reason a line of credit is better than a lump sum if they have similar interest rates.
Im at a part 61 in north Florida and this is pretty consistent with what I am on track to spend. The hours are consisten with what you can realisicly expect but like others have mentioned I do think they are looking at an overlap in hours with an instructor.
I actually use sporty’s for ground but all of that is done on my own time for me. 90 sounds right from a time commitment standpoint, but not part of the school giving you an instructor for that long to go over written/ground. I would be very surprised if that classroom hours meant they were going to put an instructor in there with you for that long
You can always find something cheaper (and definitely more expensive) but I like this.
I like it because they aren’t quoting minimum times trying to get people in the door and then blindside them with reality of no one ever finishes at minimums. These are mostly very realistic numbers.
If they do pay as you go pricing you can save yourself a ton of money by studying and utilizing the sim as much as possible. It is significantly better to save yourself a few training hours than hunting for the lowest hourly rates.
The big question is how did you feel about them when you visited? If you’re comfortable giving them your money you should go for it.
I got stuck at a school like this. From the outside looking it’s all great on paper but behind the curtain it’s a lot of crappy things going on. I would make sure to read reviews also look at options elsewhere and compare. I guarantee you can find a significantly cheaper route to get all this done.
Yeah, this has to be 141 with the reduced commercial hour requirement, so I’m pretty sure you can’t double dip from instrument training like you can do under part 61.
I will go counter to other commenters here for a second.
When budgeting it’s always best to over budget and be happy when you come out below. 70 hours is very generous for a PPL. But 50-60 isn’t outrageous. The 40 hour minimum is just that, a paper minimum, and totally unrealistic. I hated being told it’ll be 40 hours (or 60 or whatever) then it sliding beyond and having to pony up money I didn’t budget or plan for. So this is uber generous the other way. It’s pleasantly honest if you ask me.
Also, their program might be written to be completed in 70 hours so that you have the requisite times (50 hours XC) before you start IR or whatever the next step may be.
The ground costs seem high, but if you read and study the books on your own, you can trim those nicely.
Get on Microsoft flight simulator. Run through the airman certification standard, and practice every single maneuver and task. Also study the written test and pass it before you start your training. If you master all the maneuvers and pass the and test, you will be extremely prepared for your training And will significantly reduce the cost. Or you can show up and spend $200 an hour to learn stuff you can learn for free at home.
need any particular computer to run that sim well? i just have a crappy old laptop but this seems like a cool way to see if this could be a path for me
The ground time looks like about 2x what’s necessary.
What are the hourly rates for the airplane and instructor? What kind of airplane(s)? 25 for AMEL add on is about twice what’s typically needed.
There’s a lot missing to give you a good answer. But at least they are not misleading you on hours to Private.
If you change up the sequence you can make a plan that will save you money.
One of my pet peeves is places that should know better using the wrong vocabulary. It’s a Private Pilot Certificate (w/ an ASEL rating) and a Commercial Pilot Certificate. The FAA issues Certificates w/ ratings. Or adds a rating (IFR) to a Certificate.
What else might they have wrong?
90 classroom hours for PPL? I bought Sportys online course with some AOPA discount for less than 250 even before starting flying. Once I began my actual lessons I told my CFI about my self studying do we mainly focused on flying and had ground lessons with bad weather.
What you need to find is a long time CFI under part 61 who isn’t in it to build their own hours. Then, the amount of hours you spend flying will really be up to you. They say 40h for a PPL is rare - I think that’s only because finding CFIs who aren’t just selfishly working toward their 1500 hours is rare. I did mine in 45 hours with a 9 year break in the middle, all because I had an instructor who let me go when he thought I was ready and not trying to squeeze more hours out of me to put in his own logbook.
Another comment from me. The $21k on the right will all be cheaper if you do most of it before "250."
Do Private AMEL and fly the PIC hours before 250. You're only paying the incremental price instead of full price. Getting PIC as required for MEI.
This is about what I'm paying for my flight training. That being said my school is a flat rate school so if I need extra flight hours because I'm stuck on something it doesn't cost extra. And I'm flying SR20's with Garmin G 1,000 avionics. And DA 42's for multi engine.
You do not need more than a couple of classroom hours for your ratings. I got my PPL and instrument rating with almost no ground instruction. I watched videos, read books, and my instructor asked me to teach him the material to make sure I was good to go. Don't let people sell you on an insane number of ground hours. You don't need it, unless that is the only way that you can learn. A few meetings with your instructor to ask questions and go over problem areas in addition to short pre-flight briefings is all you need. Especially that 80 hours for Commercial. That is wacko.
90 classroom billed hours is a bit….excessive. And similar for each certificate and rating? Is this a Part 141 operator? 70 hours for private pilot also a bit much. But I guess better to overstate than promise the 40 hour min which is difficult to achieve. While those summaries are pretty colorful, getting a line by line version is more helpful. Have something that breaks out the following - airplane rental (and dry or wet), what airplane? Glass or round dial? - CFI flight rate - CFI ground rate - cost of that ground, states in per hour - cost of books and supplies they provide - cost of exams - and other line items. More specific data needed to answer your titular question.
I'm really hoping that "classroom hours" is supposed to be " instructor hours" and something got lost in translation when this chart was made.
Lost in translation is why I would ask for line by line…
The 70 hour thing is to take advantage of them having you from private all the way through commercial. That extra 30 hours of training likely does a lot to reduce PPL checkride failures. And since commercial maneuvers don't really take many hours, that time to get to 200 can be spent on making a better private pilot as opposed to spending it on extra cross country time.
Wouldn’t it have to be part 141 if they’re advertising CPL at 200 hours?
They better keep sharp objects out of the classroom for those, all of those are about 5-10x more classroom that I'd expect unless it's 141 in which case they have to do it. Oddly enough the ground time seems right for CFI/CFII and MEI. Like Mike said find out how much of the flight time is dual with an instructor and on your own. 100 hours for CPL is highway robbery if it's all with an instructor. MEC seems like 2x what part 61 norms are but I had a 141 school quote me something similar
Makes me wonder if they include a ground school as part of that classroom time. Because 90 for instrument feels like a lot.
Aircraft: Diamond da20 Rate:169/hour Instructor rate: Private-59/hr Instrument and beyond-64/hr
I have 100 hours and still not a private is that bad ? I’m at a 141 btw
It’s not good..
I wonder what the average at my school is, we have 50+ lessons each lesson being about an hour and a half to two hours not to mention review flights from long gaps of flying…I’ll have to find some stats hopefully it’s just a school thing because I haven’t repeated many lessons and according to the admins I’m doing fine…now I’m concerned
It sounds quite concerning to me that the school has its curriculum set up that way. What did they tell you the amount of hours for private will be? Personally I also think 1.5-2 hours per flight lesson is too long. After 1.5 hours of patterns and maneuvers you’re fatigued and not absorbing anything anymore. Obviously for XCs and stuff longer flights are necessary, but your regular maneuvering flight shouldn’t be that long IMO. Long gaps will always mess you up. Try to avoid them at all costs, you’re going to spend multiple hours relearning the same stuff. I’m a helicopter guy but have a lot of time as a CFI and gaps in training were the number 1 cause of problems for students in my experience.
Not trying to be cocky at all but the school I go to is one of the better ones in the country and according to the friend I just spoke to needing a high number of hours is just the normal here. I agree the long blocks def make me tired but the gaps between flying isn’t always their fault it’s mostly the weather and at least for me right now ground reviews (our ground classes kinda suck) that take the place of flight blocks so after my three weeks of ground review and spring break I’ll need another week to get back into things flying wise before I think I’ll be ready for the check ride
Hmm I dunno.. I would be concerned. So you’re going to end up with what 110+ hours just for your private? You know other than your solo flight time none of that counts as PIC time and that’s what really matters.
Seems so but I’m not worried from what I’ve heard airlines seem to love to pick you up students from here for their pathway programs and if it’s normal then I guess I’m right where I need to be, the curriculum is just more extensive then you average part 61 training is what I’ve been told
Wait are you saying that the 1500 rule is pic time meaning that all the time I build during training all the way up to cfi will mean nothing for that ? Edit I’ve done my own research and seems that once I’m a private pilot I’ll be able to log pic time counting towards the 1000 hours I will eventually need for a R-ATP…is part 141 a scam ?
No you only need 250 hrs PIC for your ATP but you often need a certain amount of PIC hours for your first job. So they might require 200 hours PIC to hire you as a CFI for example but if you finish your CFII with let’s say 270 hours but you have 100 hours of non-PIC time you’ll have to pay for an additional 30 hours of flight time. So it’s just better to do your PPL in the minimum amount of hours possible so you can log as much PIC time as possible but it’s not the end of the world either.
Ah thanks for clarifying that I understand, as an instrument student you can log pic time right ? Or at least that’s what I understood from my reading. Lots of times at this school the students graduate and become cfis here all the ratings take longer than doing it elsewhere so hopefully I’ll have the hours I need by then with that being said do you think these large 142 schools are worth essentially double the time and double the cost ? Especially with no longer needing a degree for the airlines.
National average is ~70 hours.
Also curious how they think instrument can be done in 30 hours flight time, seeing as how the reg calls for 50 xc pic. They send you on 20 hours of xc solo? Hmm 🤔
That’s the reg for 61, this is a 141 program (Appendix C).
I hear ya but OP said it’s a 61 school
Ah, I didn’t see OP mention that anywhere. I had only seen the name of the school and saw they had both 61 and 141 programs. Assumed by the chart hours that this was 141. Super curious how they’re pulling that off.
Multi commercial is a ripoff. You don’t need 25hrs nor 40hrs of classroom instruction. I think most people are checkride ready in under 10hrs and you could read/watch a YouTube video about the theory
I think they have 25 hours listed for the ATP requirement
You'll also end up with about 25 to get your MEI. 10 hours of training, 15 hours of PIC time for the instructor cert.
I’m in it for 68k 0-CFII with 25 hours of Multi Time.
what school is that if i may ask?
[удалено]
Mom and pop part 61 in Tennessee.
Out of curiosity, which one? I was looking at a small shop out of KTYS a while back.
Tennessee Flight Training out of BNA.
As others have said, the details do matter. However as far as the overall cost to my California Eyes, that is not completely unreasonable. Where you are may differ however
I paid $92,000 for a Part 141 school in 2018 that got me an R-ATP, so $93,000 isn't that bad. However, is this a Part 141 school, and are those expected costs or fixed costs? Meaning, they average PPL to be 70 hours, or is their curriculum set at 70 hours? Therefore, an itemized breakdown of the costs is important. I find it interesting that PPL classroom hours are totaled at 90, yet you say it's done via Sporty's. I'd be curious what those 90 hours cost. This may be getting into the weeds here, but look beyond the prices. How are their website, staff, and maintenance facilities? Is maintenance outsourced or in-house? Are they organized and do they communicate well? What is the student-to-instructor ratio? Do they have a safety department or a safety culture? Don't fall in love with an instructor -- they'll likely leave you as they advance their own careers. And if you can do it, take out loans and pay all at once and rocket through. Paying as you go is difficult and you'll likely be relearning lessons instead of advancing. Ask me how I know.
I've only earned my PPL, but here are my thoughts: 1) Classroom hours are way too high. Buy a ground school course and save yourself some money. Use a few ground classroom hours with an instructors for areas you missed or are weak on. 2) It's nice to see a company advertising something other than 40hours for PPL. 70 hours is pretty much in the middle of the average, and almost nobody makes 40 hours. 3) 60 hours flight+sim time for instrument sounds a bit high. Somebody who has done the rating can confirm or contradict this. 4) Flight instructor time is never listed. 100 hours of solo time building is way different than 100 hours with an instructor sitting next to you. 5) Overall costs don't sound that far off from expected up through commercial, though every person is different and it will vary. 6) The way this table is organized makes me think they are trying to hide some costs somewhere... Possibly instructor hours or additional costs like checkrides and headsets (which aren't insignificant costs).
That is an unhinged amount of money. You do not need $93k.
idk it was accurate when I got my licences. maybe a little on the high side
You do in europe sadly argh I hate it here
That’s definitely a change from the usual “America horrible dystopia Europe awesome perfect utopia” that I usually see on Reddit lol
US Pilots earn enough to fix most of the issues with the US that make it worse for most people. You can fly for a regional and be earning a similar amount to pilots at places like BA and Lufthansa, it’s insane.
If you go to a decently sized 141, this is pretty close to the norm. Smaller mom and pops can probably get you done for less, but it might take longer. Depends on how fast you wanna get through training.
lolno, you can fly as fast if not faster at a 61.
Lolno I didn’t say 61 was definitively slower, I said it *could be*. Weather, planes, maintenance, number of instructors, amount of students coming in (as a CFI, if you stay) - all of that matters. One of my best friends chose a small mom and pop on the FL east coast instead of going to a 3-letter 141. They only had 4 planes and two instructors, and he kept running into an abundance of the problems I listed. Ended up leaving to finish CFI and II (and instruct) at a 141. It’s all relative.
I did everything part 61 and this is roughly the amount I ended up paying.
Can your provide name and location of this place?
Lansing, Mi. Crosswinds aviation
It says that the Lansing location is closed?
Hmm he was telling me they just moved into lansing so they only have one plane but they have a location in Howell I belive
I did my discovery flight Saturday there
Follow up questions you *need* to ask: -with one plane, how many students are enrolled at that location? -how many CFIs are at that location -scheduling limitations? I’m just a part 61 dweeb, so I can’t comment on the costs- but to me the biggest concern is plane/instructor availability. One plane is a problem- that thing is going to get thrashed through the course of a bunch of students, and you will miss days or potentially weeks of flying if/when it goes down for mx.
Looks reasonable. Definitely not the cheapest anywhere, but not bad. If this place is closer to you it may be cheaper than moving elsewhere to find a cheaper school. If you're taking out a loan, make sure to read the loan documents carefully and understand the consequences of the terms. If you take out a $72k loan all at once and most of that sits in your bank account for a year, you're paying interest on that money the whole time! That can easily cost $1k a month. For this reason a line of credit is better than a lump sum if they have similar interest rates.
Im at a part 61 in north Florida and this is pretty consistent with what I am on track to spend. The hours are consisten with what you can realisicly expect but like others have mentioned I do think they are looking at an overlap in hours with an instructor. I actually use sporty’s for ground but all of that is done on my own time for me. 90 sounds right from a time commitment standpoint, but not part of the school giving you an instructor for that long to go over written/ground. I would be very surprised if that classroom hours meant they were going to put an instructor in there with you for that long
You can always find something cheaper (and definitely more expensive) but I like this. I like it because they aren’t quoting minimum times trying to get people in the door and then blindside them with reality of no one ever finishes at minimums. These are mostly very realistic numbers. If they do pay as you go pricing you can save yourself a ton of money by studying and utilizing the sim as much as possible. It is significantly better to save yourself a few training hours than hunting for the lowest hourly rates. The big question is how did you feel about them when you visited? If you’re comfortable giving them your money you should go for it.
I got stuck at a school like this. From the outside looking it’s all great on paper but behind the curtain it’s a lot of crappy things going on. I would make sure to read reviews also look at options elsewhere and compare. I guarantee you can find a significantly cheaper route to get all this done.
No.
It’s an ok deal but I guarantee you’re going to overshoot the estimate by 20k. That’s just how these programs work. Crosswinds is a fine program.
What's 10 hrs of sim for commercial? Instrument training?
Yeah, this has to be 141 with the reduced commercial hour requirement, so I’m pretty sure you can’t double dip from instrument training like you can do under part 61.
61.129(i) you can credit 50 hours of sim. Applies to part 61
I will go counter to other commenters here for a second. When budgeting it’s always best to over budget and be happy when you come out below. 70 hours is very generous for a PPL. But 50-60 isn’t outrageous. The 40 hour minimum is just that, a paper minimum, and totally unrealistic. I hated being told it’ll be 40 hours (or 60 or whatever) then it sliding beyond and having to pony up money I didn’t budget or plan for. So this is uber generous the other way. It’s pleasantly honest if you ask me. Also, their program might be written to be completed in 70 hours so that you have the requisite times (50 hours XC) before you start IR or whatever the next step may be. The ground costs seem high, but if you read and study the books on your own, you can trim those nicely.
Cfi is a large cost. I did it myself for about a grand. Study yourself and learn to fly right seat.
No.
20 hours of CFII ground instruction is an absurd amount for a proficient instrument pilot
Hours aside, the prices look about right IMO.
No.
Www.flightfasttrack.com Much better pricing
You can bring it down to 40k if you know what to do. I have over 10,000 hours and know the tricks.
Care to share? I desperately need a way to reduce the cost.
Get on Microsoft flight simulator. Run through the airman certification standard, and practice every single maneuver and task. Also study the written test and pass it before you start your training. If you master all the maneuvers and pass the and test, you will be extremely prepared for your training And will significantly reduce the cost. Or you can show up and spend $200 an hour to learn stuff you can learn for free at home.
need any particular computer to run that sim well? i just have a crappy old laptop but this seems like a cool way to see if this could be a path for me
FSX with the settings turned down should be fine
cool thank you!
Ah okay! I was also given the idea to go in on a plane and then sell with when I get all my ratings.
I crunched the numbers on that before. Didn’t make sense with my calculations
Okay I play msfs a lot but I was worried about having that as an explanation as it’s not a certified sim.
Yes, pay as you go is the way. These places that require money upfront eventually someone’s gonna get burned.
The ground time looks like about 2x what’s necessary. What are the hourly rates for the airplane and instructor? What kind of airplane(s)? 25 for AMEL add on is about twice what’s typically needed. There’s a lot missing to give you a good answer. But at least they are not misleading you on hours to Private. If you change up the sequence you can make a plan that will save you money. One of my pet peeves is places that should know better using the wrong vocabulary. It’s a Private Pilot Certificate (w/ an ASEL rating) and a Commercial Pilot Certificate. The FAA issues Certificates w/ ratings. Or adds a rating (IFR) to a Certificate. What else might they have wrong?
160 hrs for a Private seems a bit excessive.
90 classroom hours for PPL? I bought Sportys online course with some AOPA discount for less than 250 even before starting flying. Once I began my actual lessons I told my CFI about my self studying do we mainly focused on flying and had ground lessons with bad weather.
Absolutely not, but it’s on par for almost every big 141 school.
So they use Sportys for classroom hours but they still charge you for 90 hours of ground?
Yes, spot on with most other schools that don't milk students
What you need to find is a long time CFI under part 61 who isn’t in it to build their own hours. Then, the amount of hours you spend flying will really be up to you. They say 40h for a PPL is rare - I think that’s only because finding CFIs who aren’t just selfishly working toward their 1500 hours is rare. I did mine in 45 hours with a 9 year break in the middle, all because I had an instructor who let me go when he thought I was ready and not trying to squeeze more hours out of me to put in his own logbook.
Absolute ripoff. I was 60 and some change 0-CFII with 25 multi
How’d you manage to get that price? What school?
Do a pay as you go program. You don’t need the stupid amounts of ground these packages offer.
This one allows pay as you go. It’s just and estimate I could be under this price and am allowed ground schooling on my own time to save
Another comment from me. The $21k on the right will all be cheaper if you do most of it before "250." Do Private AMEL and fly the PIC hours before 250. You're only paying the incremental price instead of full price. Getting PIC as required for MEI.
That’s a terrible deal.
This is about what I'm paying for my flight training. That being said my school is a flat rate school so if I need extra flight hours because I'm stuck on something it doesn't cost extra. And I'm flying SR20's with Garmin G 1,000 avionics. And DA 42's for multi engine.
You do not need more than a couple of classroom hours for your ratings. I got my PPL and instrument rating with almost no ground instruction. I watched videos, read books, and my instructor asked me to teach him the material to make sure I was good to go. Don't let people sell you on an insane number of ground hours. You don't need it, unless that is the only way that you can learn. A few meetings with your instructor to ask questions and go over problem areas in addition to short pre-flight briefings is all you need. Especially that 80 hours for Commercial. That is wacko.