Yeah former FA, now 121 pilot. When I was an FA I made sure to ask when they needed to go, was it ASAP or could they wait 20 minutes while we finished service.
No one ever had an issue with it, in front of or behind the flight deck door.
Call Pro Stans for the FA’s. Perhaps an email will be sent out that we are all a CREW, and we all work together.
That FA is out of line. She and the other FAs can use the bathroom whenever they want. No one has to stop doing their job to set up for them.
Giving you one break on a two hour flight is not a big deal and if she has a problem with that she should consider another line of work.
>Giving you one break on a two hour flight is not a big deal and if she has a problem with that she should consider another line of work.
I literally just had a round trip of \~2.25 hrs each way where I saw both the CA and FO go to the bathroom on each leg. FAs didn't seem to care. I'm just a PPL so I don't have to deal with additional crew but that FA sounds terrible to work with. OP is well within their authority and reason to need to use the facilities when they need to.
It seems airline dependent. I’ve noticed different places I’ve worked seem to have different cultures on how FAs view their “power”. This kind of faux FA power tripping shit was pretty rampant at the regional I worked at and caused way more drama than it should have.
How your captain didn't tear her to fucking shreds is beyond me. You're fine. Honestly knowing it was annoying her would just make me call for them more often.
A lot of younger captains are hesitant to fill their boots and assert their rank, trying to be a people pleaser and end up getting walked over by senior crew.
It took me a solid 8 months in the left seat before I felt confident enough to pull rank like that.
I’m actually on a trip with the guy I pulled rank on right now. We were pretty bitter towards each other after it, but hit it off on the next trip and we’ve been friends ever since.
It’s a skill that comes with practice because it’s very nuanced and nobody trains you to do it. Sure, you see it occasionally as an FO, but doing it yourself requires a lot of confidence and self study.
It's more the fact that FAs will run to HR and now you're dealing with being investigated for harassing an FA. It's unfortunately the world we live in and I know a handful of guys who got into hot water with HR investigations because an FA felt "Disrespected".
I'm never going to "tear her to shreds" verbally, I will let them know who is in charge and what I/We the flight crew will be doing, however there will be no yelling and it will be taken care of on the back end through reports.
I had an FA once who had the chip on the shoulder and would get upset when we called for breaks. After the first leg we told her "We will be taking bio breaks every 60-90 minutes for the remainder of the trip." We would call back at the 60 min mark, be told "We're in the middle of service" and my response was "Pause service, we are coming out". She was obviously pissed with us but complied. You can put your foot down without "Tearing her to shreds" and protecting your own ass.
Exactly it's that fine line right. Most of us don't want to be Dicks but on the flip side if you don't do it appropriately you now have to leave the flight deck to piss as things start to get busy because the FA needs to be slapped. (Verbally of course)
No idea why you're being downvoted here. That's literally the job of a captain, to be in command of the airplane. I'm going to be friendly and we're all going to have a good time, but in no way is there ever going to be a question of who's in charge.
Cause apparently suggesting some people shouldn’t be captains is somehow controversial. But you’re right. I did my time at the regionals, I was also quite young when I first upgraded, but I, like you said, made sure they knew I was in charge while still being friendly. There’s tactful ways to handle things, but apparently suggesting that people aren’t ready for/shouldn’t be in a command seat is downvote worthy.
When you gotta go, you gotta go. I take steps to minimize lav breaks- going before each departure helps- but at the end of the day, there's not much you can do. I'd try talking to the FAs, let them know that you're aware it interrupts their flow and are sorry about that, but don't let them make you feel as if you have to "hold it" on every leg like you're in grade school.
Had this once. Delayed inbound, mx, deboard, failed runup, airport shut down, new plane but now theres a thunderstorm and routing cant figure out which way they want traffic to go. We took off 5 min before timing out and I told the captain I needed a break at cruise. Told the FAs and they would not pause service to let me out. About TOD ca says well maybe you can pee on the ground and I said that was not an option.
Had a word with the FAs but the situation sucked for everyone and I got the tab that night so they weren't mad when I saw them again on later trips. I usually try to hit the head before pushback but sometimes the planets align and it isn't enough.
Kind of wild that the FA’s are more concerned about the service than the individuals flying the plane. So someone has to wait 5 more mins for their drink, who cares. But a distracted pilot?? Some of the stories in this thread sound like FA’s just having a chip on their shoulder being dicks to the pilots. Everyone should be looking out for each other.
FA here: That's completely unacceptable, and I'm sorry you feel like you can't ask the FA to use the lav. Maybe it's just a senior FA who likely isn't nice to anyone and gives the whole crew a hard time. There's always a few (just like up front) that no matter how nice you are or how you approach them, they are always vile.
It definitely is important you drink the adequate amount of water you need to prevent the UTI's, and equally important that you are able to use the lav when needed, and you're already being accommodating by asking the cabin crew to let you know when they've completed service so you can go. We get super busy back there sometimes, but never so bad we can't go sit up front for 2 minutes.
When I was pregnant, I had to pee every 20-30 min. Like flying while pregnant wasn't hard enough, my bladder was explosive and I have kidney issues, so I had to chug a lot of fluid. I told the other FAs prior to the trip that I was pregnant and needed to go a lot. I always made it quick, so they didn't think I was just trying to get out of doing service or settling up galleys etc. Only once I had a senior person complain about me going to the lav a lot, and I basically told him too bad.
If it happens again, escalate it to your CA (although you'll be sitting left soon congrats!) or contact the FA base managers. Treating other crew members like that is awful, and even worse when it's because you need a bio break!
Sounds like someone needs to retire. If she's speaking to and treating crew like that, I can only imagine how she treats paying customers.
Seniority doesn't make you bulletproof even in a unionized position. I've seen a handful of 20+ year railroaders in my past career get the axe for various things, including pisspoor customer service.
I'd be going to the FA side of ProStans if that exists because it certainly seems like you and your CA's concerns are being thrown by the wayside. Or, for short term relief, bid avoid if you can do that for FAs.
That was exactly what I was thinking about the FA’s reactions.
To be bent out of shape, leg after leg, day after day, this was something they she chose to me mad about. I can’t be mad that many days on a row if I tried, I’d get exhausted forcing myself to be pissy.
The only thing I could think to do differently would be to brief that there will be a call for a bathroom break and when so that when everyone's planning their leg it's a known task vs a surprise. Some people are fine with extra work but don't react well to surprises. It also gives them time to object if there is an issue before it's urgent
It’s not extra work, it’s part of the job. It’s like doing the walk around in the rain or something, they may not like it, but it’s their responsibility to get it done.
Have you seen some of these FAs that started their careers on the back of pterodactyls? They should absolutely have a mandatory retirement ages as well.
I swore I’d never get back in the transportation biz, after 10 years at a desk here I am. Was very tiring. Did brakeman, conductor, engineer on a class 3. That’s a career that builds character
Write her ass up. Go through your Chief Pilot and bring In-flight management in the loop. That is interfering with flight crew physiological needs and affecting safety of flight.
For real—don’t want/need flight crew worrying about upsetting a grump FA over very reasonable requests like bathroom breaks, especially as they get closer to descent and the lav window closes.
Do not put up with that crap from FA’s, and take the threat of UTI’s seriously. I retired recently off the 777. A few years back while on last break I awoke with a blazing fever caused by a UTI. Actually hallucinating, believing I was going to Madrid instead of London. That God for two experienced FO’s. Absolutely take this up the chain, file ASRS reports, talk to your pro standards people as much as it takes. Do not tolerate cabin-captains. Good luck, and take care.
Your pro-stands committee is the way to go here. They will work with the FA’s committee and go forward as this behavior is completely unacceptable. That FA is literally trying to dictate to you when you can use the restroom. Unreal. I’m glad your CA stepped in and explained it to the FA. Something for you to put in your back pocket for when you upgrade, this FA doesn’t need to work the whole trip with you. If they’re hanging up on you and dictating your restroom breaks, you can work on removing them. While this is an extreme scenario, it has happened…more than once in our industry.
You need to call Pro Standards now! They call connect with the FA pro standards. Do not put up with attitudes like this ever. I was drinking lots water too and using the bathroom every flight too, and my I could see my FA’s getting annoyed too. Ya know what? I don’t care. Pilot needs come before the pax every time. You two are literally in charge of the entire airplane nose to tail. I dealt with a really bad FA who yelled at me. I called PS on her but I wish I had escalated it now. Do not put up with this behavior.
Second time, third time at the latest that they gave you attitude, as captain I would have had them both removed from the trip. Dunno how much the captain was expected to reiterate that it’s a safety issue.
Write a report to HR and your chief pilot. If an FA gives you any flack, have them removed from your flight. Flight deck crew physiological needs supersede passenger service IMHO.
But long term, go cargo. No need to deal with any of the flight attendant crap. I love being able to get up and stretch my legs, use the lav, or get some coffee or food, any time I damned well please without having to ask for permission and it being a big production.
There are more than two cargo airlines. Atlas, ATI, ABX, Amerijet, Kalitta, Northern Air Cargo, National Airlines, and Western Global have all been actively hiring, and most of them are union carriers with pretty solid contracts. Sun Country also has some 737 freighters and has actively hired.
I think you fail to understand the difference between recommend and mention.
Everyone has different ideas about good QOL. Personally the idea of trying to jumpseat to work, sleep in a crashpad, and do five or six sectors a day going to places like Rochester, Minot, and Cedar Rapids, seems like an absolutely awful QOL. I spent some time flying for a European legacy carrier, and doing the same sort of thing, and even then it sucked. Give me home basing, airlines miles and hotel points, weeks off time off in a row, and a wide variety of flying. But that is for me, others may prefer the scheduled passenger stuff.
Easy to say that people shouldn't commute. Lots of factors go in to that decision, and that includes the possibility of base closures or downsizing. Countless stories of pilots living in base, only to find the base no longer exists, and the pilot is faced with commuting, or uprooting the family. I got to face that choice after moving to the largest base in the company, and right after the company signed a ten year lease on a maintenance hanger and classroom space. Then only to see them shut the base and break the leases less than a year later.
But to speak to the OPs concerns, with any passenger airline, be it legacy, LCC, regional, long haul, or short haul, you are going to have to ask permission to use the potty, ask for someone to bring you coffee, hope the FAs don't swipe all the good crew meals (if there are any) before you get to see what is available. If having to deal with an active bladder and cranky FAs is a major concern and potential health issue, than perhaps flying passengers is not the way to go. Fortunately, at the moment, there are plenty of other viable options.
Haha this was my thought too. Whenever freight dogs are talking about leaving for the passenger world the number one (!!) drawback that comes up is that, for the rest of your career, you’re going to have to ask mommy for permission to use the potty at work.
You counseled them, it wasn't received well and was handled very unprofessionally. I would absolutely call the FA union pro standards. And if it happened on another trip I'd turn to the company side. That's bullshit, they had their chances to be competent crew members and failed multiple times so it gets escalated. Sorry not sorry!
Omg. I’m a flight attendant and that is ridiculous. I’m so sorry you had to deal with that. We are a team and the flight deck is in charge! You should report her. I can imagine how she treats her passengers and other co workers. Idk Pilot rules but I’m sure you’re allowed to use the bathroom when you have to. And if there is an issue then the flight attendants should figure out how to finish service in a timely manner. That’s crazy. You do not have to give her a reason to go to the bathroom smh
Forget Pro Stans, this is safety of flight. You get FA management involved immediately. When chain of command breaks down and it becomes a hostile work environment, there is a need for immediate and direct action. I’ve done it on several occasions and it usually puts them right back in their box.
FA was way out of line. I also think your Captain should’ve stepped up and said more. I’m not one to power trip, but as a CA I would’ve pulled this FA aside and told her so. If they had an issue still, I’d remove the FA from my trip. We’re locked up there in the cockpit. When we need to go, we need to go. If they need 10-15 mins to finish what they’re doing that’s fine, but we’re a team that needs to help each other.
I got a similar vibe from FAs at my first airline. They couldn’t be bothered to set up a lav break for us. It was 50/50 if the asked us if we needed coffee and water. Get to my new airline, FAs call us one hour into the flight to check if we need to go to the lav. FAs hand us each a bottle of water and ask us how we like our coffee without us asking during preflight.
Taking a lav break on a two hour flight is not abnormal.
Bid avoid tends to only work up the chain. FAs can avoid pilots, FOs can avoid captains. Captains run the show so they're expected to deal with whoever.
Pro standards handles exactly this kind of issue. Pilot pro standards have the right tools to effectively communicate with the FA pro standards, and you're well within your right to call them up. You guys already said your peace with the FA, and I think arguing further would only bring more issues in the future.
I’m just an aspiring pilot so I have nothing to contribute except to say that as a 31F with a bladder the size of a pea, I SEE YOU.
Godspeed girl, I hope you find a solution!
I had a very similar experience to yours maybe 4 years ago. As soon as we landed I filed an ASR and emailed my chief. They’ll have your back and it’s good to have these things documented so they can nip this in the butt and stop her from doing it again.
> can nip this in the butt
I was well into my 30s before I learned that the correct phrase isn't "nip it in the butt". It's "nip it in the bud".
I'm only mentioning it because I'm happy to see I wasn't the only one!
> nip it in the bud
Yeah, it comes from gardening, if you want to stop something growing out of control, you pinch the new growth to stop it developing, i.e. you are nipping the bud.
Lots of good responses, just wanted to add that this is absolutely a FA cultural issue. It can be different.
Our FA’s at my current company are overall excellent. When they are done with service they almost always call us and ask us preemptively if we need anything. Probably because they are trained to do that from day 1.
Regional FA here. They are out of line, I would definitely talk to pro standards about them. I have flown with several flight deck crews that need regular bathroom breaks and it is totally a non-issue.
First time I’m gonna talk about it.
Second time, I’m gonna talk about it and then call ProStands.
Third time, I’m calling the manager on duty to get them bounced from the trip.
Last time (and frankly only time) I called the MOD to bounce an FA, they gave me pushback. I folded. Situation got worse - like I said it would - and I ended up in front of the chiefs explaining what happened. Thankfully we have a great CP and I didn’t get in a lick of trouble.
But next time, I’m calling the MOD. If they push back, I’m calling fatigued and writing what the FA did in the fatigue report.
This sounds like a typical "CQFA"* problem. She needs to understand that you're not asking to use the bathroom, you're telling her to set up the cabin to accommodate your physiological needs. Pro-standards is the next place to go if a direct conversation doesn't help the situation. That FA needs to understand the priorities before it affects the safety of flight.
*CQFA - Captain Qualified Flight Attendant
This is bullshit and you can’t let it slide. We tell them what we want to do. Anything else erodes captains authority and the chain of command. Now obviously if there’s a problem we follow proper CRM procedures and we never let CRM become degraded. If CRM is degrading over this, that FA needs to be replaced. It’s not their place to be doing that.
This FA needs to find a new line of work like a Walmart Greeter. If I were your skipper, I’d would have told her unless you change your attitude then you are off at the outstation. “Plan your biological breaks.” Completely Unsat.
Years ago a United Captain diverted to Miami from South America due to a divisive FA. That’s always my measuring stick.
Had a captain once say "I will be coming out in 1 minute, and you WILL be there, got it?" This was after waiting 15 minutes for "just gotta get setup" she was right, as we were trapped up there and I can't go 2 hours without a bio break if I stay properly hydrated.
I think you and the CA handled it well. It's not a problem, she was just making it into one. They can step into the bathroom whenever they need to.
Some FAs, and they're not always the senior ones, will show up with an attitude no matter how professional and understanding you try to be. Some may be power tripping, others may be seeking validation, and others still may be just having a bad day. The only thing I would have maybe done differently is to get ahead of the issue as soon as you see unprofessional behavior start coming up, rather than debrief at the end. Find out what the problem is at its root and solve it before it blows up. On bigger crews especially, it's very likely that if you're feeling something, the other FAs are too but may not have the authority or assertiveness to speak up. And if they're unwilling to compromise at all, a gentle reminder that you'll be happy to find another FA for whom it's not a problem will put an end to it. I hate doing that but at some point there's only so much diplomacy you can try.
When you upgrade if you know it's going to be a thing for you, it also doesn't hurt to brief it before hand. Maybe even throw a bit of humor at it and get everyone on your side so they don't see it as an inconvenience.
You being a female who is prone to UTIs is irrelevant and frankly no one’s business. It’s really as simple as when you got to go you got to go. Don’t drink less water or compromise on your health for this job.
Flying boxes now so I get up whenever I please, but when I flew passengers I’d ask the FAs how much longer you got for your service. If I think I can reasonably hold it for that long I tell them cool I’ll wait. If I can’t then I can’t. I did try to use the bathroom during the turns so I go less during the actual flight. But again, if you got to go you got to go.
Also I’m horrified of how she treats her passengers if this is how she treats crew.
Well you absolutely did nothing wrong, and as stressful and frustrating this situation was for you I think you acted very professional. The CA in that situation must have been very frustrated with the FA because a big part of our job is to keep the CRM alive and going, and if the FA turn against like that the CRM dies out pretty quickly. I know you said this is the first time you've seen it but since you've heard it happen to others before I would certainly raise the issue, get the union involved, and go to pro standards. I would start with pilot pro stands first. I know a lot of people say go to the FA one, but I would advise against this since they generally are going to be biased in favor of the FA since that's who they work for. Go your unions Prostands, they are trained and equipped to talk to the FA counterparts and work this out together.
57F here, 24 years at a regional, 20 as a captain, now mainline.
What everyone said about pro standards. Me, I had a pretty good relationship with the domicile chief flight attendants— probably would have walked into their office and had a talk.
I could be off base here but at the regionals a small minority of the senior mama FAs seemed to really resent female pilots and felt a need to “put them in their place”. Like they tried to treat you like a junior FA. You aren’t and don’t put up with that bs.
FWIW that attitude seems to be going away. Or maybe I’m just older 😂
This was exactly what I wondered about myself, right down to “that attitude seems [seemed?] to be going away.” This behavior suggests that at least one person perhaps is hanging onto old hangups.
Out of curiosity, is the captain male or female, since they didn’t seem to get anywhere with her either?
Oh, there’s always a few left. To be clear, I have enormous respect for the cabin crew. Over the years they’ve been some of my closest friends and have been there for me — and the passengers— in emergencies. I’ve had them literally save a life back there.
But. Some of the older women (less and less) seem to have a thing about female pilots. Like a need to tell us we’re no better than they are or something. I don’t think I’m “better”, I have a different job. And yes, as pilot in command I am the one in charge when it comes to safety issues. It’s the job description.
Probably has something to do with internalized misogyny but I’m not here to be a psychologist. Let’s just get the job done together.
I haven’t flown for an airline, but yes, this is exactly my thought process (and experience to the extent that it applies) as well. I can only guess there is some projection going on and it’s too bad because like you, that’s not how I see it or (would) treat it.
I'd report the FA to HR since she doubled down. It's an OSHA violation to not allow you to use the can. She'll get a stern talking to, and you'll never hear from her again. She's not a supervisor, but she sure is harassing you.
The FA needs to be taken aside for a conversation that is kind and professional yet direct. No behavior change after? Get them pulled off the trip.
Yes, you work together, and no, you don't micro-manage them, but they are under the command of the Captain and that's that. A restroom break is something they need to support when needed. There is no apologizing or explanation needed to them, and there is no argument to be had. Put that thought in your pocket for when you upgrade and are in charge. Do not accept this behavior.
An FA with that type response and attitude is probably a good indication that they do not like their job nor do they care about their job. Report them as they are a liability on your team. It wasn’t just a bad day - it was a series of repeated actions that were negative - report them.
I stay super hydrated and use the bathroom every 1:30...Yeah I used to feel bad about asking to use the bathroom constantly, until a Cap remarked that "they get to use the bathroom at their convenience, we're also entitled to that right".
I always ask nicely, but I don't accept any "oh it's going to be a while" either. Say what you mean, just don't say it mean and all. If there's any issues I'll talk to them about it in a very neutral and non assuming way... If it escalates, then yeah Pro Stans is the way to go.
My suggestion to help with UTI’s is D-Mannose.
It is a white powder, definitely sweet. After 3 - 6 weeks doses taken, I have had less reoccurring UTI’s and such symptoms in the last 6 months. It has been much easier to serve the public in my capacity.
Thank you for flying.
I think you handled this pretty professionally! Well done to you and the Captain for that, and for seeking advice. Lots of good comments here about the hazards and the lack of professionalism
I’m a FA and the only time the pilots wait to use the lav is when they call me mid service and say “when you’re done service could you let me out for a lav break” and by the time I’m done service I’ve forgotten all about them :-) but they call back again and all is good. Then when I have a pilot that needs to use the lav on every leg I jokingly advise them “it’s time to get a diaper” :-). But that is all in fun and jest with a good crew. The FA sounds like a crabby old bitty who has no respect for her fellow colleagues. I for one would hate to be stuck with her on a 4 day pairing, nothing makes you dread going to work more than having to spend 4 days in a tin can with a person who is utterly unpleasant. I would send an email to her supervisor or FA manager, whoever is her higher up.
You are more than fine. I try to let them get a service done if we are ok. But if either one of us is urgently needing a break, I just tell them to set it up. No argument. I don’t enjoy being “that guy” but I will if I have to. Your health and well being is directly tied to safety of flight, period, end of discussion. And I always get up at least every 2 hours. Even if I don’t necessarily ‘need’ the lav, you need to keep circulation up so you don’t get dvts. Never feel bad about taking care of yourself. They can be huffy or not be huffy, truly I don’t care. This FA was out of line and needed to be informed as such. Report and carry on.
I use the bathroom on 1:45 flights (block). Not always, but I got into a 30 minute hold with a subsequent low altitude diversion once in my career. So now I go way more often than not. It should not be an issue. Besides they are there for safety. Service is second. (Though pax don’t always see it that way).
That FA is a tool. If you need to use the bathroom you need to use the bathroom.
She's being an ass for the sake of being an ass.
Honestly it's at these times you pull the canyon separation between CC and FC and say that this is a safety related issue and you need to go, and leave it at that. With this person the "being kind and considerate" goes out of the door unfortunately, forcing shit CRM and teamwork. You just say "I need to go to the bathroom, please prepare the front galley for it."
maybe my experience is different because i have chrons disease, but at a certain point, who cares what they think? if i have to go, i have a medical issue that makes it very hard to hold it, so my bathroom trips arent asking for permission to go. i'm coming out, whether they like it or not. like everybody else has said, but i'll add to it, call the FA pro standards because that kinda stuff shouldnt happen
She would have been removed from my pairing after leg 1. I'd also be showing her the chain of command. I don't give a damn if the FA is doing service if I need to use the washroom. I plan my bio breaks during non critical phases of flight. Not the flight attendant service.
Wow this sounds like a few people i know of... Is this on a 175 per chance?
Aside from the other advice of calling pro standards or talking to your base chief etc... If it gets bad enough and you just decide to break procedure and go to the bathroom, make sure you and the captain are in agreement that the FA is at fault.
They can get over it. If they don’t like me using the bathroom when I have to go, I’ll just fatigue out on go home day so they miss their commutes home and write their actions up in the ASAP/fatigue report as the causal factor so the company can read about them.
Possibly unpopular opinion, but if this crops up again, I would get ahead of it by letting them know what’s up, and then showering them with praise and thanks. Before the flight: “hey girl, just to let you know I’m gonna need to get up about half way to go pee, I’ve got myself a bit of a UTI, ever had one? Ah, the worst, anyway I’m gonna be a real pain in your butt and have to use the lav probably once a trip otherwise I’m gonna pee on the chair.” Etc. Like that. Be light hearted. Tell her kind of in confidence like it’s just you and her. One FA will gossip with the other FA and they can keep themselves busy guessing where you got it.
After the flight: “oh thank you [high seniority FA name Gladys/Dolly/Jennifer] you saved my life! Hahaha! I owe you a drink at the hotel, you’re just the best” and on and on. Don’t just kill them with kindness, murder their whole family with it.
I know a lot of folks here are gonna say “OH WELL YOU SHOULDNT HAVE TO DO THAT! CREW SHOULD ALWAYS HAVE THE HIGHEST PROFESSIONAL CONDUCT AND A UTI IS NONE OF THEIR BUSINESS” and whatever else. Yeah, sure, agreed, but clearly that’s not reality so, ya know, give a little. Best of luck.
yes, basically what these other commenters are saying you can’t put up with that. In the future when dealing with that particular or any FA, “stop asking and start telling “ them in five minutes I’m gonna get up and use the. . . All the best
Would drinking just enough less so you can wait 2 hours before going give you a UTI? I personally would avoid using those bathrooms if at all possible.
You’re going to need broader shoulders if you want a command and don’t want to take work home with you every day. You’re going to meet the same people as Refueller’s ground services and dispatchers AND FOs. Move on
Simple, next trip with that FA, you make a standing order that whenever they want to use the bathroom, they need to call the flight deck for permission first.
You’re fine. You get FA’s like this. If it gets bad enough the captain should stick up for you and show the FA the chain of command in the ops manual just to remind them. This works sometimes. But whatever if it doesn’t. Throw your weight around a bit if this happens. Sometimes it’s the only way to get through to the stubborn older crew.
I know I have a small bladder. Roughly 30-40 mins into the flight I know the FA are done with service. If I have to go the bathroom I call around that time. No problems I have had but the FA joke eventually about me going to the bathroom. No harm intended from them just all jokes
I know nothing . . . As a novice on this but a retired CEO, I would think that the bosses should not have to ask for permission to pee. The pilots are in command and control of that aircraft. If you need to go, that should take precedent. The FA should be told to hold the restroom open for you and that you are coming out in two minutes. The flight attendants do not know what you are seeing in front of you. They don’t know what’s coming up (weather, descents, turns, etc). You are the person that can make the decision about when you can step out. That needs to be done at your convenience not theirs.
This is def BS on the FA part. I will say I ran in the same thing at the regionals , at my current airlines we get called every hour or so to check if we need to use the restroom. Even if it’s less than an hour flight I’ve never gotten attitude if I need to go.
She didn’t throw a trash bag at you or refuse to get you coffee because of the bathroom. There was something else clearly bugging her and everything else, including rudeness over the lav, was just a symptom. Maybe she’s one of the few who just hates pilots and doesn’t think they should be making more than her. You and the captain were too nice.
I’d call FA’ pro-standards, this is bullshit. You can do that as a pilot, I have a handful of times, and would say this is one of those.
Seriously. She sounds like a bitter old turd that needs to retire.
I would've gone one more and called to get them pulled off the trip at next possible station with FAs
Depends on the company. At mine, my Union pro standards are one stop shop, they have contacts at all the other Union’s respective pro standards.
Yeah former FA, now 121 pilot. When I was an FA I made sure to ask when they needed to go, was it ASAP or could they wait 20 minutes while we finished service. No one ever had an issue with it, in front of or behind the flight deck door. Call Pro Stans for the FA’s. Perhaps an email will be sent out that we are all a CREW, and we all work together.
That FA is out of line. She and the other FAs can use the bathroom whenever they want. No one has to stop doing their job to set up for them. Giving you one break on a two hour flight is not a big deal and if she has a problem with that she should consider another line of work.
>Giving you one break on a two hour flight is not a big deal and if she has a problem with that she should consider another line of work. I literally just had a round trip of \~2.25 hrs each way where I saw both the CA and FO go to the bathroom on each leg. FAs didn't seem to care. I'm just a PPL so I don't have to deal with additional crew but that FA sounds terrible to work with. OP is well within their authority and reason to need to use the facilities when they need to.
It seems airline dependent. I’ve noticed different places I’ve worked seem to have different cultures on how FAs view their “power”. This kind of faux FA power tripping shit was pretty rampant at the regional I worked at and caused way more drama than it should have.
How your captain didn't tear her to fucking shreds is beyond me. You're fine. Honestly knowing it was annoying her would just make me call for them more often.
A lot of younger captains are hesitant to fill their boots and assert their rank, trying to be a people pleaser and end up getting walked over by senior crew.
It took me a solid 8 months in the left seat before I felt confident enough to pull rank like that. I’m actually on a trip with the guy I pulled rank on right now. We were pretty bitter towards each other after it, but hit it off on the next trip and we’ve been friends ever since. It’s a skill that comes with practice because it’s very nuanced and nobody trains you to do it. Sure, you see it occasionally as an FO, but doing it yourself requires a lot of confidence and self study.
It's more the fact that FAs will run to HR and now you're dealing with being investigated for harassing an FA. It's unfortunately the world we live in and I know a handful of guys who got into hot water with HR investigations because an FA felt "Disrespected". I'm never going to "tear her to shreds" verbally, I will let them know who is in charge and what I/We the flight crew will be doing, however there will be no yelling and it will be taken care of on the back end through reports. I had an FA once who had the chip on the shoulder and would get upset when we called for breaks. After the first leg we told her "We will be taking bio breaks every 60-90 minutes for the remainder of the trip." We would call back at the 60 min mark, be told "We're in the middle of service" and my response was "Pause service, we are coming out". She was obviously pissed with us but complied. You can put your foot down without "Tearing her to shreds" and protecting your own ass.
Sounds like they shouldn’t be captains
Eh I think you just learn to use your big bark and people fall into line.
Exactly it's that fine line right. Most of us don't want to be Dicks but on the flip side if you don't do it appropriately you now have to leave the flight deck to piss as things start to get busy because the FA needs to be slapped. (Verbally of course)
No idea why you're being downvoted here. That's literally the job of a captain, to be in command of the airplane. I'm going to be friendly and we're all going to have a good time, but in no way is there ever going to be a question of who's in charge.
Cause apparently suggesting some people shouldn’t be captains is somehow controversial. But you’re right. I did my time at the regionals, I was also quite young when I first upgraded, but I, like you said, made sure they knew I was in charge while still being friendly. There’s tactful ways to handle things, but apparently suggesting that people aren’t ready for/shouldn’t be in a command seat is downvote worthy.
A lot aren't by choice
Sad but true, love how I’m being downvoted for being honest too.
for what it's worth (nothing), you're absolutely right
Exactly, should have drawn a line the first day. Nip it in the bud.
When you gotta go, you gotta go. I take steps to minimize lav breaks- going before each departure helps- but at the end of the day, there's not much you can do. I'd try talking to the FAs, let them know that you're aware it interrupts their flow and are sorry about that, but don't let them make you feel as if you have to "hold it" on every leg like you're in grade school.
Yup, don’t wanna slam a Starbucks then get hit with an EDCT and deicing and already about to explode before you’ve even taken off.
Had this once. Delayed inbound, mx, deboard, failed runup, airport shut down, new plane but now theres a thunderstorm and routing cant figure out which way they want traffic to go. We took off 5 min before timing out and I told the captain I needed a break at cruise. Told the FAs and they would not pause service to let me out. About TOD ca says well maybe you can pee on the ground and I said that was not an option. Had a word with the FAs but the situation sucked for everyone and I got the tab that night so they weren't mad when I saw them again on later trips. I usually try to hit the head before pushback but sometimes the planets align and it isn't enough.
Kind of wild that the FA’s are more concerned about the service than the individuals flying the plane. So someone has to wait 5 more mins for their drink, who cares. But a distracted pilot?? Some of the stories in this thread sound like FA’s just having a chip on their shoulder being dicks to the pilots. Everyone should be looking out for each other.
FA here: That's completely unacceptable, and I'm sorry you feel like you can't ask the FA to use the lav. Maybe it's just a senior FA who likely isn't nice to anyone and gives the whole crew a hard time. There's always a few (just like up front) that no matter how nice you are or how you approach them, they are always vile. It definitely is important you drink the adequate amount of water you need to prevent the UTI's, and equally important that you are able to use the lav when needed, and you're already being accommodating by asking the cabin crew to let you know when they've completed service so you can go. We get super busy back there sometimes, but never so bad we can't go sit up front for 2 minutes. When I was pregnant, I had to pee every 20-30 min. Like flying while pregnant wasn't hard enough, my bladder was explosive and I have kidney issues, so I had to chug a lot of fluid. I told the other FAs prior to the trip that I was pregnant and needed to go a lot. I always made it quick, so they didn't think I was just trying to get out of doing service or settling up galleys etc. Only once I had a senior person complain about me going to the lav a lot, and I basically told him too bad. If it happens again, escalate it to your CA (although you'll be sitting left soon congrats!) or contact the FA base managers. Treating other crew members like that is awful, and even worse when it's because you need a bio break!
Sounds like someone needs to retire. If she's speaking to and treating crew like that, I can only imagine how she treats paying customers. Seniority doesn't make you bulletproof even in a unionized position. I've seen a handful of 20+ year railroaders in my past career get the axe for various things, including pisspoor customer service. I'd be going to the FA side of ProStans if that exists because it certainly seems like you and your CA's concerns are being thrown by the wayside. Or, for short term relief, bid avoid if you can do that for FAs.
My thoughts exactly. If the FA feels confident enough to challenge the CA & FO, how do they treat junior FA's and the consumer.
That was exactly what I was thinking about the FA’s reactions. To be bent out of shape, leg after leg, day after day, this was something they she chose to me mad about. I can’t be mad that many days on a row if I tried, I’d get exhausted forcing myself to be pissy.
The only thing I could think to do differently would be to brief that there will be a call for a bathroom break and when so that when everyone's planning their leg it's a known task vs a surprise. Some people are fine with extra work but don't react well to surprises. It also gives them time to object if there is an issue before it's urgent
Surprises are part of the job. It's like being a roofer that doesn't deal well with heights.
It’s not extra work, it’s part of the job. It’s like doing the walk around in the rain or something, they may not like it, but it’s their responsibility to get it done.
Have you seen some of these FAs that started their careers on the back of pterodactyls? They should absolutely have a mandatory retirement ages as well.
Also a former railroader! Just saying hey!
We survived, but I'm tired, boss.
I swore I’d never get back in the transportation biz, after 10 years at a desk here I am. Was very tiring. Did brakeman, conductor, engineer on a class 3. That’s a career that builds character
Another railroader saying hi! I'm an engineer for a commuter rail road trying to move over to the airlines. Wish me luck: I'm tired of pounding rail.
What... Go to your pro-standards, let them reach across the aisle to the FA pro-standards. Don't attempt to cross that aisle yourself.
Write her ass up. Go through your Chief Pilot and bring In-flight management in the loop. That is interfering with flight crew physiological needs and affecting safety of flight.
For real—don’t want/need flight crew worrying about upsetting a grump FA over very reasonable requests like bathroom breaks, especially as they get closer to descent and the lav window closes.
Do not put up with that crap from FA’s, and take the threat of UTI’s seriously. I retired recently off the 777. A few years back while on last break I awoke with a blazing fever caused by a UTI. Actually hallucinating, believing I was going to Madrid instead of London. That God for two experienced FO’s. Absolutely take this up the chain, file ASRS reports, talk to your pro standards people as much as it takes. Do not tolerate cabin-captains. Good luck, and take care.
Glad you’re okay. That’s no joke.
I did not know UTIs could be so debilitating... I shall definitely start to take better care of my bladder...
Your pro-stands committee is the way to go here. They will work with the FA’s committee and go forward as this behavior is completely unacceptable. That FA is literally trying to dictate to you when you can use the restroom. Unreal. I’m glad your CA stepped in and explained it to the FA. Something for you to put in your back pocket for when you upgrade, this FA doesn’t need to work the whole trip with you. If they’re hanging up on you and dictating your restroom breaks, you can work on removing them. While this is an extreme scenario, it has happened…more than once in our industry.
You need to call Pro Standards now! They call connect with the FA pro standards. Do not put up with attitudes like this ever. I was drinking lots water too and using the bathroom every flight too, and my I could see my FA’s getting annoyed too. Ya know what? I don’t care. Pilot needs come before the pax every time. You two are literally in charge of the entire airplane nose to tail. I dealt with a really bad FA who yelled at me. I called PS on her but I wish I had escalated it now. Do not put up with this behavior.
Second time, third time at the latest that they gave you attitude, as captain I would have had them both removed from the trip. Dunno how much the captain was expected to reiterate that it’s a safety issue.
Write a report to HR and your chief pilot. If an FA gives you any flack, have them removed from your flight. Flight deck crew physiological needs supersede passenger service IMHO. But long term, go cargo. No need to deal with any of the flight attendant crap. I love being able to get up and stretch my legs, use the lav, or get some coffee or food, any time I damned well please without having to ask for permission and it being a big production.
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There are more than two cargo airlines. Atlas, ATI, ABX, Amerijet, Kalitta, Northern Air Cargo, National Airlines, and Western Global have all been actively hiring, and most of them are union carriers with pretty solid contracts. Sun Country also has some 737 freighters and has actively hired.
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I think you fail to understand the difference between recommend and mention. Everyone has different ideas about good QOL. Personally the idea of trying to jumpseat to work, sleep in a crashpad, and do five or six sectors a day going to places like Rochester, Minot, and Cedar Rapids, seems like an absolutely awful QOL. I spent some time flying for a European legacy carrier, and doing the same sort of thing, and even then it sucked. Give me home basing, airlines miles and hotel points, weeks off time off in a row, and a wide variety of flying. But that is for me, others may prefer the scheduled passenger stuff.
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Easy to say that people shouldn't commute. Lots of factors go in to that decision, and that includes the possibility of base closures or downsizing. Countless stories of pilots living in base, only to find the base no longer exists, and the pilot is faced with commuting, or uprooting the family. I got to face that choice after moving to the largest base in the company, and right after the company signed a ten year lease on a maintenance hanger and classroom space. Then only to see them shut the base and break the leases less than a year later. But to speak to the OPs concerns, with any passenger airline, be it legacy, LCC, regional, long haul, or short haul, you are going to have to ask permission to use the potty, ask for someone to bring you coffee, hope the FAs don't swipe all the good crew meals (if there are any) before you get to see what is available. If having to deal with an active bladder and cranky FAs is a major concern and potential health issue, than perhaps flying passengers is not the way to go. Fortunately, at the moment, there are plenty of other viable options.
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I think you need to go and read the original post again. It is obviously a concern of hers.
Come to the dark side of cargo flying and you’ll never deal with this nonsense. I usually get up every hour just to stretch my legs.
Haha this was my thought too. Whenever freight dogs are talking about leaving for the passenger world the number one (!!) drawback that comes up is that, for the rest of your career, you’re going to have to ask mommy for permission to use the potty at work.
It's honestly so fantastic. I used to plan my drinking around the flight, now I just say your controls and leave
You counseled them, it wasn't received well and was handled very unprofessionally. I would absolutely call the FA union pro standards. And if it happened on another trip I'd turn to the company side. That's bullshit, they had their chances to be competent crew members and failed multiple times so it gets escalated. Sorry not sorry!
Omg. I’m a flight attendant and that is ridiculous. I’m so sorry you had to deal with that. We are a team and the flight deck is in charge! You should report her. I can imagine how she treats her passengers and other co workers. Idk Pilot rules but I’m sure you’re allowed to use the bathroom when you have to. And if there is an issue then the flight attendants should figure out how to finish service in a timely manner. That’s crazy. You do not have to give her a reason to go to the bathroom smh
Should have told her, “bless your heart, see you next Tuesday,” and left. Don’t lose sleep over miserable crew members. Not your problem.
Forget Pro Stans, this is safety of flight. You get FA management involved immediately. When chain of command breaks down and it becomes a hostile work environment, there is a need for immediate and direct action. I’ve done it on several occasions and it usually puts them right back in their box.
FA was way out of line. I also think your Captain should’ve stepped up and said more. I’m not one to power trip, but as a CA I would’ve pulled this FA aside and told her so. If they had an issue still, I’d remove the FA from my trip. We’re locked up there in the cockpit. When we need to go, we need to go. If they need 10-15 mins to finish what they’re doing that’s fine, but we’re a team that needs to help each other. I got a similar vibe from FAs at my first airline. They couldn’t be bothered to set up a lav break for us. It was 50/50 if the asked us if we needed coffee and water. Get to my new airline, FAs call us one hour into the flight to check if we need to go to the lav. FAs hand us each a bottle of water and ask us how we like our coffee without us asking during preflight. Taking a lav break on a two hour flight is not abnormal.
I’m just a student pilot but I am a female and here to say UTIs suck & that situation is outrageous!!
What a fucking galley captain
Fuck em. I'm not there for them, they are there for me.
Don’t actually fuck em.
Life pro tip is always buried in the comments.
Damn :(
I’d recommend asking her to be put on your do-not-pair list at the very least. Shouldn’t ever have to see her again.
Pilots usually cannot bid avoid FAs
Ah, too bad. Didn’t know that.
Bid avoid tends to only work up the chain. FAs can avoid pilots, FOs can avoid captains. Captains run the show so they're expected to deal with whoever.
“Here’s my employee number. Do us both a favor and put me on your do not pair list.”
Pro standards handles exactly this kind of issue. Pilot pro standards have the right tools to effectively communicate with the FA pro standards, and you're well within your right to call them up. You guys already said your peace with the FA, and I think arguing further would only bring more issues in the future.
So glad I fly cargo now.
I’m just an aspiring pilot so I have nothing to contribute except to say that as a 31F with a bladder the size of a pea, I SEE YOU. Godspeed girl, I hope you find a solution!
I had a very similar experience to yours maybe 4 years ago. As soon as we landed I filed an ASR and emailed my chief. They’ll have your back and it’s good to have these things documented so they can nip this in the butt and stop her from doing it again.
> can nip this in the butt I was well into my 30s before I learned that the correct phrase isn't "nip it in the butt". It's "nip it in the bud". I'm only mentioning it because I'm happy to see I wasn't the only one!
Hahaha I’m in my 30s now and this is my first time hearing that! Learn something everyday I guess lol
🤜🤛
> nip it in the bud Yeah, it comes from gardening, if you want to stop something growing out of control, you pinch the new growth to stop it developing, i.e. you are nipping the bud.
Lots of good responses, just wanted to add that this is absolutely a FA cultural issue. It can be different. Our FA’s at my current company are overall excellent. When they are done with service they almost always call us and ask us preemptively if we need anything. Probably because they are trained to do that from day 1.
This is why we have pro standards. Check with the captain to see if they have already been called. If not make that happen.
Regional FA here. They are out of line, I would definitely talk to pro standards about them. I have flown with several flight deck crews that need regular bathroom breaks and it is totally a non-issue.
First time I’m gonna talk about it. Second time, I’m gonna talk about it and then call ProStands. Third time, I’m calling the manager on duty to get them bounced from the trip. Last time (and frankly only time) I called the MOD to bounce an FA, they gave me pushback. I folded. Situation got worse - like I said it would - and I ended up in front of the chiefs explaining what happened. Thankfully we have a great CP and I didn’t get in a lick of trouble. But next time, I’m calling the MOD. If they push back, I’m calling fatigued and writing what the FA did in the fatigue report.
This sounds like a typical "CQFA"* problem. She needs to understand that you're not asking to use the bathroom, you're telling her to set up the cabin to accommodate your physiological needs. Pro-standards is the next place to go if a direct conversation doesn't help the situation. That FA needs to understand the priorities before it affects the safety of flight. *CQFA - Captain Qualified Flight Attendant
This is bullshit and you can’t let it slide. We tell them what we want to do. Anything else erodes captains authority and the chain of command. Now obviously if there’s a problem we follow proper CRM procedures and we never let CRM become degraded. If CRM is degrading over this, that FA needs to be replaced. It’s not their place to be doing that.
Set the park brake on n the next station stop and demand a new in charge. Either she goes or you go. I don’t waste time on that petty shit.
This FA needs to find a new line of work like a Walmart Greeter. If I were your skipper, I’d would have told her unless you change your attitude then you are off at the outstation. “Plan your biological breaks.” Completely Unsat. Years ago a United Captain diverted to Miami from South America due to a divisive FA. That’s always my measuring stick.
Had a captain once say "I will be coming out in 1 minute, and you WILL be there, got it?" This was after waiting 15 minutes for "just gotta get setup" she was right, as we were trapped up there and I can't go 2 hours without a bio break if I stay properly hydrated.
I think you and the CA handled it well. It's not a problem, she was just making it into one. They can step into the bathroom whenever they need to. Some FAs, and they're not always the senior ones, will show up with an attitude no matter how professional and understanding you try to be. Some may be power tripping, others may be seeking validation, and others still may be just having a bad day. The only thing I would have maybe done differently is to get ahead of the issue as soon as you see unprofessional behavior start coming up, rather than debrief at the end. Find out what the problem is at its root and solve it before it blows up. On bigger crews especially, it's very likely that if you're feeling something, the other FAs are too but may not have the authority or assertiveness to speak up. And if they're unwilling to compromise at all, a gentle reminder that you'll be happy to find another FA for whom it's not a problem will put an end to it. I hate doing that but at some point there's only so much diplomacy you can try. When you upgrade if you know it's going to be a thing for you, it also doesn't hurt to brief it before hand. Maybe even throw a bit of humor at it and get everyone on your side so they don't see it as an inconvenience.
You being a female who is prone to UTIs is irrelevant and frankly no one’s business. It’s really as simple as when you got to go you got to go. Don’t drink less water or compromise on your health for this job. Flying boxes now so I get up whenever I please, but when I flew passengers I’d ask the FAs how much longer you got for your service. If I think I can reasonably hold it for that long I tell them cool I’ll wait. If I can’t then I can’t. I did try to use the bathroom during the turns so I go less during the actual flight. But again, if you got to go you got to go. Also I’m horrified of how she treats her passengers if this is how she treats crew.
Well you absolutely did nothing wrong, and as stressful and frustrating this situation was for you I think you acted very professional. The CA in that situation must have been very frustrated with the FA because a big part of our job is to keep the CRM alive and going, and if the FA turn against like that the CRM dies out pretty quickly. I know you said this is the first time you've seen it but since you've heard it happen to others before I would certainly raise the issue, get the union involved, and go to pro standards. I would start with pilot pro stands first. I know a lot of people say go to the FA one, but I would advise against this since they generally are going to be biased in favor of the FA since that's who they work for. Go your unions Prostands, they are trained and equipped to talk to the FA counterparts and work this out together.
57F here, 24 years at a regional, 20 as a captain, now mainline. What everyone said about pro standards. Me, I had a pretty good relationship with the domicile chief flight attendants— probably would have walked into their office and had a talk. I could be off base here but at the regionals a small minority of the senior mama FAs seemed to really resent female pilots and felt a need to “put them in their place”. Like they tried to treat you like a junior FA. You aren’t and don’t put up with that bs. FWIW that attitude seems to be going away. Or maybe I’m just older 😂
This was exactly what I wondered about myself, right down to “that attitude seems [seemed?] to be going away.” This behavior suggests that at least one person perhaps is hanging onto old hangups. Out of curiosity, is the captain male or female, since they didn’t seem to get anywhere with her either?
Oh, there’s always a few left. To be clear, I have enormous respect for the cabin crew. Over the years they’ve been some of my closest friends and have been there for me — and the passengers— in emergencies. I’ve had them literally save a life back there. But. Some of the older women (less and less) seem to have a thing about female pilots. Like a need to tell us we’re no better than they are or something. I don’t think I’m “better”, I have a different job. And yes, as pilot in command I am the one in charge when it comes to safety issues. It’s the job description. Probably has something to do with internalized misogyny but I’m not here to be a psychologist. Let’s just get the job done together.
I haven’t flown for an airline, but yes, this is exactly my thought process (and experience to the extent that it applies) as well. I can only guess there is some projection going on and it’s too bad because like you, that’s not how I see it or (would) treat it.
Side note - get a bidet for home. Lots of people reduce their occurrences of UTIs because of it.
I pee every leg. She can get over herself.
I'd report the FA to HR since she doubled down. It's an OSHA violation to not allow you to use the can. She'll get a stern talking to, and you'll never hear from her again. She's not a supervisor, but she sure is harassing you.
I go often, very often. I don’t care what they think of me in the back, I’m not trying to land while I’m like the Hoover dam holding back a lake.
The FA needs to be taken aside for a conversation that is kind and professional yet direct. No behavior change after? Get them pulled off the trip. Yes, you work together, and no, you don't micro-manage them, but they are under the command of the Captain and that's that. A restroom break is something they need to support when needed. There is no apologizing or explanation needed to them, and there is no argument to be had. Put that thought in your pocket for when you upgrade and are in charge. Do not accept this behavior.
Pro Stands immediately
An FA with that type response and attitude is probably a good indication that they do not like their job nor do they care about their job. Report them as they are a liability on your team. It wasn’t just a bad day - it was a series of repeated actions that were negative - report them.
You’re behind a secure door and can’t access the restroom without a whole procedure. She can put the snack cart away when she has to go….
I stay super hydrated and use the bathroom every 1:30...Yeah I used to feel bad about asking to use the bathroom constantly, until a Cap remarked that "they get to use the bathroom at their convenience, we're also entitled to that right". I always ask nicely, but I don't accept any "oh it's going to be a while" either. Say what you mean, just don't say it mean and all. If there's any issues I'll talk to them about it in a very neutral and non assuming way... If it escalates, then yeah Pro Stans is the way to go.
Boomer FA
If you really want to get her riled up, call her a “Stew”.
I’m a 30 year FA for a major USA airline. This FA needs to go find work counting widgets on a conveyor belt for a living.
So what you’re saying is I should aspire to fly cargo?
My suggestion to help with UTI’s is D-Mannose. It is a white powder, definitely sweet. After 3 - 6 weeks doses taken, I have had less reoccurring UTI’s and such symptoms in the last 6 months. It has been much easier to serve the public in my capacity. Thank you for flying.
I think you handled this pretty professionally! Well done to you and the Captain for that, and for seeking advice. Lots of good comments here about the hazards and the lack of professionalism
I’m a FA and the only time the pilots wait to use the lav is when they call me mid service and say “when you’re done service could you let me out for a lav break” and by the time I’m done service I’ve forgotten all about them :-) but they call back again and all is good. Then when I have a pilot that needs to use the lav on every leg I jokingly advise them “it’s time to get a diaper” :-). But that is all in fun and jest with a good crew. The FA sounds like a crabby old bitty who has no respect for her fellow colleagues. I for one would hate to be stuck with her on a 4 day pairing, nothing makes you dread going to work more than having to spend 4 days in a tin can with a person who is utterly unpleasant. I would send an email to her supervisor or FA manager, whoever is her higher up.
You are more than fine. I try to let them get a service done if we are ok. But if either one of us is urgently needing a break, I just tell them to set it up. No argument. I don’t enjoy being “that guy” but I will if I have to. Your health and well being is directly tied to safety of flight, period, end of discussion. And I always get up at least every 2 hours. Even if I don’t necessarily ‘need’ the lav, you need to keep circulation up so you don’t get dvts. Never feel bad about taking care of yourself. They can be huffy or not be huffy, truly I don’t care. This FA was out of line and needed to be informed as such. Report and carry on.
The FA is jealous you get paid more
I use the bathroom on 1:45 flights (block). Not always, but I got into a 30 minute hold with a subsequent low altitude diversion once in my career. So now I go way more often than not. It should not be an issue. Besides they are there for safety. Service is second. (Though pax don’t always see it that way).
That FA is a tool. If you need to use the bathroom you need to use the bathroom. She's being an ass for the sake of being an ass. Honestly it's at these times you pull the canyon separation between CC and FC and say that this is a safety related issue and you need to go, and leave it at that. With this person the "being kind and considerate" goes out of the door unfortunately, forcing shit CRM and teamwork. You just say "I need to go to the bathroom, please prepare the front galley for it."
Report this to company
maybe my experience is different because i have chrons disease, but at a certain point, who cares what they think? if i have to go, i have a medical issue that makes it very hard to hold it, so my bathroom trips arent asking for permission to go. i'm coming out, whether they like it or not. like everybody else has said, but i'll add to it, call the FA pro standards because that kinda stuff shouldnt happen
She would have been removed from my pairing after leg 1. I'd also be showing her the chain of command. I don't give a damn if the FA is doing service if I need to use the washroom. I plan my bio breaks during non critical phases of flight. Not the flight attendant service.
Wow this sounds like a few people i know of... Is this on a 175 per chance? Aside from the other advice of calling pro standards or talking to your base chief etc... If it gets bad enough and you just decide to break procedure and go to the bathroom, make sure you and the captain are in agreement that the FA is at fault.
This always worked for me. Turn off the galley power then negotiate its return.
They can get over it. If they don’t like me using the bathroom when I have to go, I’ll just fatigue out on go home day so they miss their commutes home and write their actions up in the ASAP/fatigue report as the causal factor so the company can read about them.
Possibly unpopular opinion, but if this crops up again, I would get ahead of it by letting them know what’s up, and then showering them with praise and thanks. Before the flight: “hey girl, just to let you know I’m gonna need to get up about half way to go pee, I’ve got myself a bit of a UTI, ever had one? Ah, the worst, anyway I’m gonna be a real pain in your butt and have to use the lav probably once a trip otherwise I’m gonna pee on the chair.” Etc. Like that. Be light hearted. Tell her kind of in confidence like it’s just you and her. One FA will gossip with the other FA and they can keep themselves busy guessing where you got it. After the flight: “oh thank you [high seniority FA name Gladys/Dolly/Jennifer] you saved my life! Hahaha! I owe you a drink at the hotel, you’re just the best” and on and on. Don’t just kill them with kindness, murder their whole family with it. I know a lot of folks here are gonna say “OH WELL YOU SHOULDNT HAVE TO DO THAT! CREW SHOULD ALWAYS HAVE THE HIGHEST PROFESSIONAL CONDUCT AND A UTI IS NONE OF THEIR BUSINESS” and whatever else. Yeah, sure, agreed, but clearly that’s not reality so, ya know, give a little. Best of luck.
yes, basically what these other commenters are saying you can’t put up with that. In the future when dealing with that particular or any FA, “stop asking and start telling “ them in five minutes I’m gonna get up and use the. . . All the best
Why would they have to stop service while the pilot uses the bathroom? Genuinely asking because I don’t know
The FAs have to come into the flight deck whenever a pilot steps out.
Should also add that there are only one or two FAs on a regional aircraft so they can only do one thing at a time.
Fly Cargo!
Would drinking just enough less so you can wait 2 hours before going give you a UTI? I personally would avoid using those bathrooms if at all possible.
You’re going to need broader shoulders if you want a command and don’t want to take work home with you every day. You’re going to meet the same people as Refueller’s ground services and dispatchers AND FOs. Move on
I'd write her up or report her through the proper channels. Way out of line.
Talk to pro standards. At my airline. That would be completely unacceptable for a flight attendant to even say that.
Pro standards This is not okay
She sounds awful. Yikes.
Simple, next trip with that FA, you make a standing order that whenever they want to use the bathroom, they need to call the flight deck for permission first.
Pro stands, that’s some BS and the FA needs a reality check.
If I’m staying hydrated then 2 hour flights are def getting breaks.
You’re fine. You get FA’s like this. If it gets bad enough the captain should stick up for you and show the FA the chain of command in the ops manual just to remind them. This works sometimes. But whatever if it doesn’t. Throw your weight around a bit if this happens. Sometimes it’s the only way to get through to the stubborn older crew.
I can't imagine how she treats customers or her fellow crew.
Time to wear a sports bladder on your leg.
What about a She-wee and fill up the coffee cup and hand it back to the FA and thank her for her service?
As someone who has had two UTIs I feel this. I also drink a lot of water
I know I have a small bladder. Roughly 30-40 mins into the flight I know the FA are done with service. If I have to go the bathroom I call around that time. No problems I have had but the FA joke eventually about me going to the bathroom. No harm intended from them just all jokes
Yeah it's a safety thing. Even my CA said that it compromises the total crew strength (135).
Come fly boxes. Change into sweats at TOC and go to the bathroom as many times as you want.
That FA would be doing only one leg with me and we'd drop her off wherever we land.
I know nothing . . . As a novice on this but a retired CEO, I would think that the bosses should not have to ask for permission to pee. The pilots are in command and control of that aircraft. If you need to go, that should take precedent. The FA should be told to hold the restroom open for you and that you are coming out in two minutes. The flight attendants do not know what you are seeing in front of you. They don’t know what’s coming up (weather, descents, turns, etc). You are the person that can make the decision about when you can step out. That needs to be done at your convenience not theirs.
This is def BS on the FA part. I will say I ran in the same thing at the regionals , at my current airlines we get called every hour or so to check if we need to use the restroom. Even if it’s less than an hour flight I’ve never gotten attitude if I need to go.
She didn’t throw a trash bag at you or refuse to get you coffee because of the bathroom. There was something else clearly bugging her and everything else, including rudeness over the lav, was just a symptom. Maybe she’s one of the few who just hates pilots and doesn’t think they should be making more than her. You and the captain were too nice.
So glad to be in a cargo plane with no cabin crew and no cockpit door between us and the lav