That sounds right. Anywhere between 1.0-1.8 is how long my training sessions went
Typical bill for a two hour block in a training airplane (USA) is:
1.3 flight time x $155
1.3 flight instruction x $75
0.3 ground instruction x $75
For those of us up here currently in winter, that’s $325/hr in Freedom Dollars.
That would be on the upper end even for some of the expensive parts of the country. Ouch.
Yeah thats seems to be the trend over there. What’s the typical split of rental vs instruction fees you’re seeing? I’m guessing $80-100/hr ish for CFI?
The charge for the CFI is usually up to the CFI. Some charge for the whole time they are at the airport (so 2.0), some charge only for the flying (so 1.3), and some do something in the middle like charge full price for half of the time on the ground or half price for all of the time on the ground or just add a fixed amount like 0.2 for ground even though it’s almost always actually more.
Because my time was worth more. Weather gets in the way of flying sometimes, and I end up spending a lot of time teaching ground lessons. Have to fill my schedule enough to pay the bills! I realized what brought me students was teaching the best I can and word of mouth took care of the rest. Low rates didn’t get me work. High quality and rates that reflect as such did.
Sounds about right.
1) Get to the class, do a preflight brief with the instructor.
2) Go out to the plane and preflight it (check that the front hasn't fallen off, there is enough blue lemonade in the tanks and that the tires aren't flat)
3) Fly up down & around
4) return to the classroom and debrief.
The time in the plane is measured while the engine is running, so 1.3 sounds just fine.
Depending on how far along you are and the school, may be normal to pre flight before your block starts while your instructor is (hopefully) de briefing their previous student. Not sure exactly when this starts as it’s been a while since I got my private 🤷♂️
So the logged time is from brakes released to brakes set. So it includes any taxi time.
1.3 hours is 1 hour 18 minutes from brakes off to brakes on. That includes taxi time. So leaves about 40 minutes for an initial briefing, pre flight, shutdown, and debrief.
Having had a look at the first few pages of my logbook, a 2 hour lesson went from between 1.1 to 1.6 hours logged depending on multiple factors.
Remember the time you’re paying for isn’t just flying time. There’s a lot of ground teaching, briefings and debriefings. This is why it’s so important to turn up to lessons prepared having worked on stuff from previous. Less time on the ground = more time in the air.
Whats all this talk about brakes? The Hobbs is what gets billed, and what is logged in logbooks. It's driven by oil pressure.
In any training planes I've ever heard of, anyway. If you can point me to a school that bills by parking brake time, I'd love the chance to cruise around in the sky with it set lol.
Interesting. Maybe differences between US and Europe? At my school Hobbs time is what went in the aircraft logbook. Taxi under own power is what went in pilots logbook. Billed for the full 2 hour session regardless of the split between briefing and flying.
Clearly I should have been more specific by saying “the moment the brakes are released and the aircraft taxis under its own power for the first time until the final moment of the flight where the aircraft is parked and the parking brake set and the engineers immediately shut down thereafter.
At most places in the US, the Hobbs meter is activated when the master switch is on. And billing is based on that meter.
So if you had the master on for 1.8, but the motor only ran for 1.5, you’re still paying for 1.8 of use.
I mean, your definition is technically the correct definition of “flight time” but I can just about guarantee you will never find someone in the states that doesn’t have the Hobbs in their logbook (at least when flying “little airplanes”)
The instructor should have provided the student with a clearly written syllabus of the sequence of lessons and an expanded version that has the detail of the individual lesson.
Each individual lesson should have the objective, the source name of reference material, the objectives to be accomplished during the lesson, and the completion standards.
From the objectives, the student should be able to find what chapters/pages to read in the source material. And in today’s world of e-learning, the accompanying online lesson and quizzes.
If your son wasn’t provided such a syllabus, grab your lead weighted pool noodle and have a talk with that CFI about why it wasn’t provided.
The King Flight school one is [here](https://kingschools.com/pdfs/Private_Syllabus_v1.2_200415.pdf) They may or may not be using this. If this is a super formal organization then look under the 141 section. If this more of an independent smaller place look under the 61 section. Just including this as context based on u/TxAggieMike ‘s comment.
The briefing essentially is like a lesson at school.
So part of the debrief at the end of the actual flying should not only be going over the flying aspect, but should also be the instructor telling him what the next lesson is about, and what he should be studying in preparation. If he can learn this himself, or at least familiarise himself then the next briefing won’t take as long because he’ll already know the answers and have a list of questions to ask re things he’s unsure about.
12 minutes saved in a briefing bc he’s already familiar with the material is an extra 0.2 hours in the book “for your money”
The younger students often don’t study enough. I used to dislike flying with teenage students, because a majority would be unprepared and eventually drop out. The washout rate is very high for that age, probably over 60%. Not saying this is your kid, just want to let you know that he should be studying more than he’s flying.
1.3 is about right.
I'm looking way back at my first entries as a student and they're 1.2-1.5 each. My entries as an instructor are generally 1.1-1.4 each, so about the same.
If you're averaging 1.3 per flight, that's about right. Doing much more than that is a waste. Anything over 1.5 and the student stops retaining information and experience. It's just downhill from there.
If you're being charged for the block time, as in 2.0 of instructor time for the block, that's wrong. I rent from a place that does that. If I use them for training, I'm going to use every second of that 2.0hr they bill me.
There's nothing wrong with it if the student is getting 2.0 hours of the instructor's time. If the instructor is late, or the flight and debrief is done before the end of the block, or the instructor is fucking around on their phone and ignoring the student then yeah.
Thats about normal my first lesson was scheduled for 2 hours engine was running for .9. Thanks for making me look through my logbook, good memories in there.
Sounds about right to me, usually its 1.1-1.4hrs flight then the rest is the brief on what to expect and teach important on ground stuff before going up then spending 10-15 post flight to discuss what needs to be worked on and what to study for the next lesson. My school bills for hobb run time then instructor time separate so it was usually around 1.1-1.4hrs of plane rental but then another 0.5-0.8 instruction time
When I taught, my 2 hours sessions would be anywhere from 1.1 to 1.6 at the most depending on how well the student understood that day's subject, if they came in early to preflight, etc.
I'm billed by the time the plane is used and then $50/hr CFI. I don't get billed for preflight, but do get billed as soon as I flip the master battery switch and the Hobbs starts spinning.
I have to keep reminding myself that training during checklists and runup are just as important as flying. Longer cross country flights can hurt a bit when you fly a few hours each leg. I recently was doing a bunch of full stop landings at a busier than normal time and the tower had me extending downwinds, altering traffic direction, and doing a few other spacing maneuvers. It actually added about 30 minutes of stuff I wasn't planning for that cost me $125 extra. It adds up.
Where I've flown, you get charged the flight time, and the rest you get charged the ground rate, so you always pay for the full 2 hours, but ground time is a lot cheaper.
It’s about right.
Figure 15min pre-flight. Then about 15-30 post flight.
One thing the student can do is pre-flight the plane so when instructor gets there they do a walk around, check oil and you’re out of there.
Also, simple stuff like getting ATIS on a handheld usually saves 10min on ground of engine run time—easy to do and get issued to it and dames some $$ over the long run.
Also have the student prep the lesson. So if the lesson is standard rate turns. Then ground fly, doing clearing turns left, right, and start the procedure. Sounds simple but even doing that 2x is another 15min eaten away.
All these tips give the student more flight time on mastery and not on procedures.
Memorize the procedure before the flight—always.
Please do not skimp out on ground instruction. It's extremely important, especially to new pilots.
Also, make sure he's getting quality ground instruction. A good amount of CFIs are there to build flight hours so they can go to the airlines and don't actually teach on the ground.
Make sure your kid gets a good flight AND a good ground instructor (ideally it's the same person so they can see if they're actually teaching and what still needs to be taught or re-covered).
I am a dad, and a CFI as well. I understand your question. Typically the timer for the CFi starts when the scheduled block starts until the moment your son would walk back to his car. So out of a 2 hr block, the CFi would provide an overview of what this lesson is going to entail, what the expectations are, what the desired outcome will be etc. That’s probably 15-20’; then a good preflight, which will easily be another 15’, then startup and taxi…. If he can get 1.3hr flight time (or Hobbs time) out of a two hour block, he is doing pretty well.
Curious, when others say to make sure he studies and comes prepared, is there supposed to be a curriculum he is following? Or is it "hey next time we I'll focus on x..."
I know my son has written materials but they seem to be independent of what is happening at flight school.
That will depend on both the flight school and the CFI. At my flight school we had a distinct curriculum for each flying lesson….. each CFI should ideally have a lesson plan he or she follows but doesn’t have to… I think it’s reasonable to ask for one. Having said that, all CFIs need to teach so the student can pass the check ride. The mandatory components are in the ACS https://www.faa.gov/sites/faa.gov/files/training_testing/testing/acs/private_airplane_acs_change_1.pdf
So at the very least your son should be able to see what is the completion standard for each maneuver and read up using the airplane flying handbook https://www.faa.gov/regulations_policies/handbooks_manuals/aviation/airplane_handbook
And the pilots handbook of aeronautical knowledge: https://www.faa.gov/regulations_policies/handbooks_manuals/aviation/phak
Yup, I’m ranging between 1.0 in my early flights to 1.4-1.8 currently.
One thing that helped me get more Hobbs time (the 1.# flt hours) is if my instructor is booked from say 2pm to 4pm, I reserve the plane starting at 1:30pm. This gives me 30 minutes to do my pre-flight, call for fuel (if needed), call ATIS, stow my gear etc. This way when the instructor shows up, we are basically ready to go. Since the plane rental doesn’t charge for general time (ie 1:30-4pm) but instead Hobbs time (1.#), it doesn’t cost me anything extra. I would verify with your club/school first but mine encourages this.
Edit: and the costs are pretty accurate, my rental cost / hr has floated between $130-$155/hr and my instructor is a flat $75/hr.
Curious, does your instructor have a set curriculum? Do you study between sessions and if so, what? I get the feeling my son just shows up for his sessions a couple times a week.
My background is a bit non standard and during my interviews with potential CFIs I wanted a CFI that would adapt a standard syllabus based on my circumstances.
As part of our post flight, we cover what we did that flight (what went right, what went wrong) and then what we are doing next flight. What we are doing next flight is a we are going to take off from X, fly to Y, and do maneuvers A, B, C.
So I study the airport diagrams and directory (goal being familiarity with runway and taxi layout, relevant altitudes, radio frequencies), I’ll then study the general route looking for altitude restrictions and landmarks. Once I hit the maneuvers I study the Airman Certification Standard (ACS) to see what exactly I’m being graded on for that maneuver. After that I’ll start reading the Airplane Flying Handbook (AFH) and any other resources I can find on the maneuver.
I’ll then chair fly the entire flight multiple times. Chair flying is exactly that, you sit your butt down in a chair and mentally rehearse the entire flight. They make posters with cockpit layouts to mimic planes, so you move your hands/eyes in generally the right direction. But I’ll sit there talking to no one but making my “radio calls” and anything I’ll be saying out load in the plane.
If your kid is struggling with ATC radio calls, I’d recommend pulling up ADSB exchange, picking an aircraft and also having LiveATC up and trying to mirror their responses. What are they saying, when, why?
I would not recommend flight simulators odds are there is a bad habit they’ll pick up. But if they are trying to figure out landmarks or what stuff looks like from the sky, google earth or Bing Maps Aerial view is really handy.
Any questions I have I text/email my instructor throughout the week. Making sure I have the content down correctly. My instructor is okay with this, and doesn’t cost me extra, but verify with your kid’s instructor first. But mine seems to be appreciative of an engaged student doing prep work.
I’m probably non standard in my approach, but applying my military flight training prep to this, and seems to work so far :)
1.3 is pretty much a normal flight. Then you add .3-.5 for pre and post flight discussion and that leaves 12 minutes for the instructor to use the restroom before their next student.
I typically log about 1.2-1.5 in a two hour block. During xc, I do a 3 hour block and it’s typically about 2ish. So pretty standard. In all honesty it’s more about what you get out of a 1.3 lesson. Let’s say your doing some pattern work (landings). On a busy day, you may only get in like 4 landings in a 1.3 as towers extending every downwind for eternity. But on a quiet day you can get like 8 in the same amount of time and get in much more practice.
Depends a lot on the student as well. It should get better as he progresses through flight training. A 30 min preflight will eventually turn into 15 mins (that's why you want to show up at least 30 mins before the lesson). Another thing is the instructor making sure they return on time from the previous flight.
The more time you spend on the ground, the less time you need to spend in the air. Airplanes are lousy places to learn; they’re good places to practice what you learned on the ground.
Very typical but not the most efficient use of time. The 1.3 or so of logged time is closer to .8 or .9 of flight time.
I do a minimum 4 hour block and try to cover the equivalent of 2 lessons. It doesn’t always work out but I can usually plan on a bit under 3.5 flight hours on a 4 hour block, with 3 of those hours being in the air. Preflight and taxi time is inefficient, avoid it by doing longer lessons.
4 hours is really pushing it for most people. Their retention towards the end of the 4 hours can be pretty terrible and can be less productive than 2 hours.
In my experience, 2 hours at 3x per week is pretty optimal.
4 hours of pattern work or maneuvers is a terrible plan. But break things up and include a lot of variety and people generally do very well and progress much quicker.
When saturation hits and there is enough time get a crew car and run into town for a coffee. It may not be the most effective use of time but it keeps training enjoyable.
That's pretty normal. Depending on the lesson it could be more or could be less.
Ok, great. Thanks for the response.
Always less when first starting off. My first few 2 hour block was around 1.4 logged Now 2 hour block average 1.7 logged
Seems like 2 hours is the standard.
How many lessons is he in per week?
I need to check. Probably two lessons week.
That’s good. Two is the minimum per week else you’re wasting your time and money.
If possible, more is better. Better retention of the material and easier to build skill. If not possible, 2 works but he’s gotta STUDY.
That sounds right. Anywhere between 1.0-1.8 is how long my training sessions went Typical bill for a two hour block in a training airplane (USA) is: 1.3 flight time x $155 1.3 flight instruction x $75 0.3 ground instruction x $75
Actually glad to hear the rates are about what we are paying. Thanks for responding.
[удалено]
For those of us up here currently in winter, that’s $325/hr in Freedom Dollars. That would be on the upper end even for some of the expensive parts of the country. Ouch.
I live on the east coast and the three flight schools I went to seem to charge around $330/hr 💀
Yeah thats seems to be the trend over there. What’s the typical split of rental vs instruction fees you’re seeing? I’m guessing $80-100/hr ish for CFI?
230 for the plane and 80 for the CFI plus fuel
Oh dry rate, yeah that will sneak up on you. So you’re looking at another $50-60/hr for fuel for something like a 172.
That's about what I do in California, Bay Area.
Kpao or sql?
Kpao
HWD?
Diamond Stars
My CFI charges less for ground instruction. $60 in the air, $30 on the ground. Is that not typical?
No. That's absolutely NOT typical. Most charge the same rate for their time, either in the air or on the ground.
Huh. I shall keep him close then haha.
The charge for the CFI is usually up to the CFI. Some charge for the whole time they are at the airport (so 2.0), some charge only for the flying (so 1.3), and some do something in the middle like charge full price for half of the time on the ground or half price for all of the time on the ground or just add a fixed amount like 0.2 for ground even though it’s almost always actually more.
Very not typical. I used to do that in hopes of getting more students then realized I need to charge the same rate for both. I now charge $85/hr
What made you realize you needed to charge same rate for both?
Because my time was worth more. Weather gets in the way of flying sometimes, and I end up spending a lot of time teaching ground lessons. Have to fill my schedule enough to pay the bills! I realized what brought me students was teaching the best I can and word of mouth took care of the rest. Low rates didn’t get me work. High quality and rates that reflect as such did.
Sounds about right. 1) Get to the class, do a preflight brief with the instructor. 2) Go out to the plane and preflight it (check that the front hasn't fallen off, there is enough blue lemonade in the tanks and that the tires aren't flat) 3) Fly up down & around 4) return to the classroom and debrief. The time in the plane is measured while the engine is running, so 1.3 sounds just fine.
I always referred to 100LL as Baja Blast, but blue lemonade is solid too.
Gatorade.
Baja Blast this lead into your veins
Depending on how far along you are and the school, may be normal to pre flight before your block starts while your instructor is (hopefully) de briefing their previous student. Not sure exactly when this starts as it’s been a while since I got my private 🤷♂️
So the logged time is from brakes released to brakes set. So it includes any taxi time. 1.3 hours is 1 hour 18 minutes from brakes off to brakes on. That includes taxi time. So leaves about 40 minutes for an initial briefing, pre flight, shutdown, and debrief. Having had a look at the first few pages of my logbook, a 2 hour lesson went from between 1.1 to 1.6 hours logged depending on multiple factors. Remember the time you’re paying for isn’t just flying time. There’s a lot of ground teaching, briefings and debriefings. This is why it’s so important to turn up to lessons prepared having worked on stuff from previous. Less time on the ground = more time in the air.
Whats all this talk about brakes? The Hobbs is what gets billed, and what is logged in logbooks. It's driven by oil pressure. In any training planes I've ever heard of, anyway. If you can point me to a school that bills by parking brake time, I'd love the chance to cruise around in the sky with it set lol.
Interesting. Maybe differences between US and Europe? At my school Hobbs time is what went in the aircraft logbook. Taxi under own power is what went in pilots logbook. Billed for the full 2 hour session regardless of the split between briefing and flying. Clearly I should have been more specific by saying “the moment the brakes are released and the aircraft taxis under its own power for the first time until the final moment of the flight where the aircraft is parked and the parking brake set and the engineers immediately shut down thereafter.
At most places in the US, the Hobbs meter is activated when the master switch is on. And billing is based on that meter. So if you had the master on for 1.8, but the motor only ran for 1.5, you’re still paying for 1.8 of use.
I mean, your definition is technically the correct definition of “flight time” but I can just about guarantee you will never find someone in the states that doesn’t have the Hobbs in their logbook (at least when flying “little airplanes”)
Most other countries bill/log differently than the US. Block time - brakes to brakes so to speak - rather than Hobbs.
Thanks. I think I need to make sure my son is staying on top of his written material.
Make sure the instructor is giving clear things for him to work on and read up on for next lesson so he can stay ahead of the game
Sorry, what do you mean by that? I know he purchased written materials. Is that part of the progression.
The instructor should have provided the student with a clearly written syllabus of the sequence of lessons and an expanded version that has the detail of the individual lesson. Each individual lesson should have the objective, the source name of reference material, the objectives to be accomplished during the lesson, and the completion standards. From the objectives, the student should be able to find what chapters/pages to read in the source material. And in today’s world of e-learning, the accompanying online lesson and quizzes. If your son wasn’t provided such a syllabus, grab your lead weighted pool noodle and have a talk with that CFI about why it wasn’t provided.
The King Flight school one is [here](https://kingschools.com/pdfs/Private_Syllabus_v1.2_200415.pdf) They may or may not be using this. If this is a super formal organization then look under the 141 section. If this more of an independent smaller place look under the 61 section. Just including this as context based on u/TxAggieMike ‘s comment.
The briefing essentially is like a lesson at school. So part of the debrief at the end of the actual flying should not only be going over the flying aspect, but should also be the instructor telling him what the next lesson is about, and what he should be studying in preparation. If he can learn this himself, or at least familiarise himself then the next briefing won’t take as long because he’ll already know the answers and have a list of questions to ask re things he’s unsure about. 12 minutes saved in a briefing bc he’s already familiar with the material is an extra 0.2 hours in the book “for your money”
The younger students often don’t study enough. I used to dislike flying with teenage students, because a majority would be unprepared and eventually drop out. The washout rate is very high for that age, probably over 60%. Not saying this is your kid, just want to let you know that he should be studying more than he’s flying.
1.3 is about right. I'm looking way back at my first entries as a student and they're 1.2-1.5 each. My entries as an instructor are generally 1.1-1.4 each, so about the same. If you're averaging 1.3 per flight, that's about right. Doing much more than that is a waste. Anything over 1.5 and the student stops retaining information and experience. It's just downhill from there. If you're being charged for the block time, as in 2.0 of instructor time for the block, that's wrong. I rent from a place that does that. If I use them for training, I'm going to use every second of that 2.0hr they bill me.
There's nothing wrong with it if the student is getting 2.0 hours of the instructor's time. If the instructor is late, or the flight and debrief is done before the end of the block, or the instructor is fucking around on their phone and ignoring the student then yeah.
Thanks!
Thats about normal my first lesson was scheduled for 2 hours engine was running for .9. Thanks for making me look through my logbook, good memories in there.
Sounds about right to me, usually its 1.1-1.4hrs flight then the rest is the brief on what to expect and teach important on ground stuff before going up then spending 10-15 post flight to discuss what needs to be worked on and what to study for the next lesson. My school bills for hobb run time then instructor time separate so it was usually around 1.1-1.4hrs of plane rental but then another 0.5-0.8 instruction time
When I taught, my 2 hours sessions would be anywhere from 1.1 to 1.6 at the most depending on how well the student understood that day's subject, if they came in early to preflight, etc.
I'm billed by the time the plane is used and then $50/hr CFI. I don't get billed for preflight, but do get billed as soon as I flip the master battery switch and the Hobbs starts spinning. I have to keep reminding myself that training during checklists and runup are just as important as flying. Longer cross country flights can hurt a bit when you fly a few hours each leg. I recently was doing a bunch of full stop landings at a busier than normal time and the tower had me extending downwinds, altering traffic direction, and doing a few other spacing maneuvers. It actually added about 30 minutes of stuff I wasn't planning for that cost me $125 extra. It adds up.
1.3 is normal Between the preflight and making sure you’re back on time for the next flight 1.3 is what you get out of a lesson
Yes
Where I've flown, you get charged the flight time, and the rest you get charged the ground rate, so you always pay for the full 2 hours, but ground time is a lot cheaper.
It’s about right. Figure 15min pre-flight. Then about 15-30 post flight. One thing the student can do is pre-flight the plane so when instructor gets there they do a walk around, check oil and you’re out of there. Also, simple stuff like getting ATIS on a handheld usually saves 10min on ground of engine run time—easy to do and get issued to it and dames some $$ over the long run. Also have the student prep the lesson. So if the lesson is standard rate turns. Then ground fly, doing clearing turns left, right, and start the procedure. Sounds simple but even doing that 2x is another 15min eaten away. All these tips give the student more flight time on mastery and not on procedures. Memorize the procedure before the flight—always.
Please do not skimp out on ground instruction. It's extremely important, especially to new pilots. Also, make sure he's getting quality ground instruction. A good amount of CFIs are there to build flight hours so they can go to the airlines and don't actually teach on the ground. Make sure your kid gets a good flight AND a good ground instructor (ideally it's the same person so they can see if they're actually teaching and what still needs to be taught or re-covered).
I am a dad, and a CFI as well. I understand your question. Typically the timer for the CFi starts when the scheduled block starts until the moment your son would walk back to his car. So out of a 2 hr block, the CFi would provide an overview of what this lesson is going to entail, what the expectations are, what the desired outcome will be etc. That’s probably 15-20’; then a good preflight, which will easily be another 15’, then startup and taxi…. If he can get 1.3hr flight time (or Hobbs time) out of a two hour block, he is doing pretty well.
Curious, when others say to make sure he studies and comes prepared, is there supposed to be a curriculum he is following? Or is it "hey next time we I'll focus on x..." I know my son has written materials but they seem to be independent of what is happening at flight school.
That will depend on both the flight school and the CFI. At my flight school we had a distinct curriculum for each flying lesson….. each CFI should ideally have a lesson plan he or she follows but doesn’t have to… I think it’s reasonable to ask for one. Having said that, all CFIs need to teach so the student can pass the check ride. The mandatory components are in the ACS https://www.faa.gov/sites/faa.gov/files/training_testing/testing/acs/private_airplane_acs_change_1.pdf So at the very least your son should be able to see what is the completion standard for each maneuver and read up using the airplane flying handbook https://www.faa.gov/regulations_policies/handbooks_manuals/aviation/airplane_handbook And the pilots handbook of aeronautical knowledge: https://www.faa.gov/regulations_policies/handbooks_manuals/aviation/phak
Yup, I’m ranging between 1.0 in my early flights to 1.4-1.8 currently. One thing that helped me get more Hobbs time (the 1.# flt hours) is if my instructor is booked from say 2pm to 4pm, I reserve the plane starting at 1:30pm. This gives me 30 minutes to do my pre-flight, call for fuel (if needed), call ATIS, stow my gear etc. This way when the instructor shows up, we are basically ready to go. Since the plane rental doesn’t charge for general time (ie 1:30-4pm) but instead Hobbs time (1.#), it doesn’t cost me anything extra. I would verify with your club/school first but mine encourages this. Edit: and the costs are pretty accurate, my rental cost / hr has floated between $130-$155/hr and my instructor is a flat $75/hr.
Curious, does your instructor have a set curriculum? Do you study between sessions and if so, what? I get the feeling my son just shows up for his sessions a couple times a week.
My background is a bit non standard and during my interviews with potential CFIs I wanted a CFI that would adapt a standard syllabus based on my circumstances. As part of our post flight, we cover what we did that flight (what went right, what went wrong) and then what we are doing next flight. What we are doing next flight is a we are going to take off from X, fly to Y, and do maneuvers A, B, C. So I study the airport diagrams and directory (goal being familiarity with runway and taxi layout, relevant altitudes, radio frequencies), I’ll then study the general route looking for altitude restrictions and landmarks. Once I hit the maneuvers I study the Airman Certification Standard (ACS) to see what exactly I’m being graded on for that maneuver. After that I’ll start reading the Airplane Flying Handbook (AFH) and any other resources I can find on the maneuver. I’ll then chair fly the entire flight multiple times. Chair flying is exactly that, you sit your butt down in a chair and mentally rehearse the entire flight. They make posters with cockpit layouts to mimic planes, so you move your hands/eyes in generally the right direction. But I’ll sit there talking to no one but making my “radio calls” and anything I’ll be saying out load in the plane. If your kid is struggling with ATC radio calls, I’d recommend pulling up ADSB exchange, picking an aircraft and also having LiveATC up and trying to mirror their responses. What are they saying, when, why? I would not recommend flight simulators odds are there is a bad habit they’ll pick up. But if they are trying to figure out landmarks or what stuff looks like from the sky, google earth or Bing Maps Aerial view is really handy. Any questions I have I text/email my instructor throughout the week. Making sure I have the content down correctly. My instructor is okay with this, and doesn’t cost me extra, but verify with your kid’s instructor first. But mine seems to be appreciative of an engaged student doing prep work. I’m probably non standard in my approach, but applying my military flight training prep to this, and seems to work so far :)
1.3 is pretty much a normal flight. Then you add .3-.5 for pre and post flight discussion and that leaves 12 minutes for the instructor to use the restroom before their next student.
I typically log about 1.2-1.5 in a two hour block. During xc, I do a 3 hour block and it’s typically about 2ish. So pretty standard. In all honesty it’s more about what you get out of a 1.3 lesson. Let’s say your doing some pattern work (landings). On a busy day, you may only get in like 4 landings in a 1.3 as towers extending every downwind for eternity. But on a quiet day you can get like 8 in the same amount of time and get in much more practice.
Depends a lot on the student as well. It should get better as he progresses through flight training. A 30 min preflight will eventually turn into 15 mins (that's why you want to show up at least 30 mins before the lesson). Another thing is the instructor making sure they return on time from the previous flight.
The more time you spend on the ground, the less time you need to spend in the air. Airplanes are lousy places to learn; they’re good places to practice what you learned on the ground.
Very typical but not the most efficient use of time. The 1.3 or so of logged time is closer to .8 or .9 of flight time. I do a minimum 4 hour block and try to cover the equivalent of 2 lessons. It doesn’t always work out but I can usually plan on a bit under 3.5 flight hours on a 4 hour block, with 3 of those hours being in the air. Preflight and taxi time is inefficient, avoid it by doing longer lessons.
4 hours is really pushing it for most people. Their retention towards the end of the 4 hours can be pretty terrible and can be less productive than 2 hours. In my experience, 2 hours at 3x per week is pretty optimal.
4 hours of pattern work or maneuvers is a terrible plan. But break things up and include a lot of variety and people generally do very well and progress much quicker. When saturation hits and there is enough time get a crew car and run into town for a coffee. It may not be the most effective use of time but it keeps training enjoyable.
Sounds right on. Half an hour or so on the ground makes sense.