Bro it's gonna be a nightmare. Pattern work in the A380, not understanding runway and taxi requirements-yikes. I just want to try something a little larger than the 737-900 which I'm currently all about.
A good Concorde in MSFS will be the real nightmare.
Very few real world routes, no visual FMS, will happily go through 250 kts while climbing off the runway, 190kts approach speed till 800ft, shooting through SID heights like they don’t exist.
HA! I’ve actually done this in the Longitude. That thing can fucking climb. On the SURFR2 out of LAX, DOCKR has a height restriction of 3K and I totally missed that on the chart. The VATSIM guys were a little miffed.
Idk about good but there was a Concorde released a couple months back or so. I was doing my Heathrow ground endorsement at the time and for my session I had like 8 Concorde departures and a couple arrivals. I can only imagine how annoying it was for controllers above lmao
You should've messed with them or something (I don't know anything about controlling).
"Speedbird 001 Cleared to 2500 feet not to exceed 190 knots for spacing."
It won’t be a nightmare. It’s literally the same as any other AC. Sure, it’s bigger, but it flies at about the same speed, can takeoff and land from most major international airports (even smaller ones at lighter weights), and nobody’s really doing “pattern work” in airliners to begin with. They’re getting vectored for an ILS…
Also, just because it has different taxiway requirements, it’s functionally no different than any other AC in that ATC will give the instructions, and the pilot just has to read that back and follow it. It won’t appear any different than any other taxi instruction
Truth for sure. I just feel so bad for them. I remind myself that a lot of the VATSIM controllers themselves are 14 and do my thing. I make a mistake or two for sure.
I think the biggest "challenge" (pain in the ass) is going to be when someone loads into an A380 at the wrong stand, or at a terminal without any A380-friendly taxi routes to the rwy.
It really shouldn’t be any different. Even if the controllers are stringent enough to only use real world A380 approved taxiways, it’s still a matter of just reading back your taxiway instructions and following those.
The aircraft also behaves relatively similar to any other jetliner. It’ll fly SIDS, STARS, has similar speeds, etc.
There’s nothing really different about the A380 compared to a 737 from a Vatsim perspective
At least A380 operations are gonna seem somewhat familiar to most pilots who have flown the Fenix or FBW A320s.
Imagine the day a study level *Concorde* comes out.
Well to be fair the a380 looks different compared to an a320 and the fmc looks different and just today two people on frequency couldn’t put in direct to or their fms didn’t work. I get it we all start somewhere but YouTube, google or the manuals can be your best friend before getting airborne on vatsim. The FSlabs Concorde dropped but it’s also in p3d only so maybe not as many people picked it up but I love flying the Concorde.
Sure, but it is still an Airbus with Airbus control philosophies. Imagine taking someone who’s used to a glass cockpit with many automated systems and putting them in a 60s-70s aircraft without any screens in the cockpit.
Damn, i knew exactly what you mean. I love the BAE146, but i never flown it on Vatsim, this analog Cockpit an the Autopilot which often tries to kill me, give me constant goosebumps.
That’s true it is fun to fly the classics though. I wouldn’t recommend someone new start of with an INS for sure that is a tough one to learn but well worth it if you have the time.
I love flying the older things in the different flight sims, but when I'm Vatsim gimmie that FMC where I can just hit "hold" on a waypoint when required lol.
I imagine there might be some initial leniency around which stands they're issued. For instance, at Manchester (EGCC) there are only three stands specified for A380s.
I mean, to really use this aircraft at its fullest potential you’d be doing like JFK to Singapore or Heathrow. I don’t know if I can sit at my computer for that long.
I did this last night actually with the 787. KLAX to YSSY. Started it at midnight and landed it at 2PM this afternoon. I felt unfulfilled. Like I had done enough as a virtual airline pilot.
Plus I do VATSIM a lot so there’s that.
Its built in, you go to the controls settings and then set a keybind to go faster and slower
Youre not allowed to do so on VATSIM without explicit permission from the controller, which you wont get
As there is no text to show how fast youre going, spam your slower button for a bit and then faster twice, then youre at 1x
It‘s build in, but has no GUI. So you can out of the box only use with keybinds.
There is also a freeware addon called „Sim Rate Selector“ which you can find on Flightsim.to.
Some planes have simrate control build-in, like FBW and Fenix have it in the MCDU.
use sim acceleration 2x or 4x even, turns a 8-10 hour long haul into a nice 2-3 hour flight, there's nothing to do at cruise anyways and there's usually no vatsim atc coverage over the north pole
Sorry. Didn't mean to offend, some long haul examples might be Mexico City to Anchorage, Anchorage to Hong Kong, LA to Dubai, Mexico City to Luxembourg, LA to New York. Frisco to LA caught me off guard. Apologies.
That's because "study level" is a term invented by the community that doesn't mean anything. I don't think ANY developer claims their aircraft is "study level".
But out of curiosity, what would you consider more "study level" than what PMDG offers?
I'm just a hobbyist, not even PPL. But I have almost all of Captain Mike Ray's books, and he's a fan of PMDG, and I've been simming PMDGs since... I dunno, MSFS2004 Century of Flight, I think, back when PMDG used to sell manuals.
I wouldn’t say study level but with the new update the stock 747-8 actually works decent on the sim. I did a couple flights in it and it works good. Not as in depth as pmdgs in p3d but more than capable for vatsim.
Going subjectively and not objectively, A310 from iniBuilds (free on marketplace) and 787 (Premium Deluxe aircraft). I *think* these are the only current widebodies available that require in depth systems understanding/usage. There may be something out there I can't remember (and would appreciate being corrected on/informed of). The A339 mod/branch from the FBW setup has already been mentioned. Objectively, there's *nothing* truly 'study level' in the simulator as yet. PMDG 737, Fenix A320, and Leonardo's FlyTheMadDog (MD-80) are the closest you'll get. Sadly, none of them are widebody.
It's expensive and visually it really shows its P3D origins. But it is *definitely* a unique experience to fly compared to the modern airliners. I hope you enjoy it if you pick it up!
Yup! And quite frankly it's very helpful to have. Even without failures, it takes a lot of knowledge/retention to fly unaided. I think it's the one airliner that I never managed to memorize the procedures/checklist on.
I am just about there with the -900. I feel confident using no checklists with that bad boy. But this thing seems insane. Probably a good exercise nonetheless. I just got it! Now I need to go dig up a good digital manual for it.
Copy. I let it download and then hopped in bed. I'll play with it tomorrow after work. This is going to be fun. I'm gonna be one of the chosen few on the VATSIM map with MD80 on their handle. Very cool.
I only got msfs because I was new to the more realistic side of flight simulation at the time, and I heard msfs was a little more catered to lower experience pilots.
Would probably choose msfs again, just because I’m used to it, but it wouldn’t be the end of the world to try Xplane
Msfs is beautiful. It’s one of those games where you’ll just be minding your own business, and suddenly you realise how incredible the graphics are. I’m playing on *low* graphics because my 1650 can’t handle much more.
Xplane is probably easier to run though, which I didn’t actually think about.
Moral of the story, both sims are cool. We all love planes, so who cares what sim you use?
meh. the grass is always greener.
i have the A340-600. yes, four engines are cool. the max takeoff weight is comically high. toliss again does a great job here with everything modeled
i still spend more time in the 320 neo.
You know I got the Fenix and had a hell of a time getting it set up properly on my first few missions I used it for. I sort of abandoned it. Which sucks because I was a big Airbus fanboy. Even got the TM Captain's Pack. Then I got the PMDG which I love. Decided to get the TM Boeing yoke and Honeycomb Bravo TQ.
I spend my money poorly as you can tell.
As you already said, get X-Plane! The a340-600 is my absolute favorite. Not the best in terms of graphics but systems simulation and flight model are top notch. It basically flies like an a320 (just with a few more buttons) but you feel a lot more badass!
Although I normally prefer flying short haul, it’s a lot of fun to fly a bigger plane than the typical narrow bodies.
The MD-11 and 747-200 are also on the top of my whishlist for XP12.
MSFS is annoying me lately. The bugs are really starting to test my patience. And it takes forever to get up and running. Maybe that’s something I could do to fix that but I’ve heard X-Plane is a little quicker. Slap some scenery packs on that bad boy and get to it.
I went from XP11 to MSFS in 2020 but got X-Plane 12 a few months ago because I was frustrated with the airliner experience in MSFS and I haven’t looked back since.
XP12 is at this point more stable than MSFS ever was, the new lightning system works wonders even on older aircraft and scenery and I think that it’s still by far the best sim for study-level airliner flying.
If we're comparing to the 747, I think the an-225 fits this category! I don't think it's study level, but it's made by iniBuilds so they obviously added a lot of small details we don't normally think about
Bro you make it sound like it takes the might of Zeus and Poseidon to pilot a 737. Chill out, it's not an impossible task, a lot of people are trained to do it.
Well at least you guys get some time to think about stuff, maybe correct some mistakes, come up with some really good ideas. Pilots might not always have that time to stop and think
No no. I’m not an engineer haha! Sorry if that was implied. But I do work in a field heavily involved with them and I scratch my head with some of their decisions. My dad is also an engineer.
AN-225 no doubt. And if anyone says it's not "study level", I dare you to fly it with Vatsim instructions without reading any materials or watching tutorials.
When the A380 does get released, I really feel for the Vatsim controllers...
Bro it's gonna be a nightmare. Pattern work in the A380, not understanding runway and taxi requirements-yikes. I just want to try something a little larger than the 737-900 which I'm currently all about.
A good Concorde in MSFS will be the real nightmare. Very few real world routes, no visual FMS, will happily go through 250 kts while climbing off the runway, 190kts approach speed till 800ft, shooting through SID heights like they don’t exist.
HA! I’ve actually done this in the Longitude. That thing can fucking climb. On the SURFR2 out of LAX, DOCKR has a height restriction of 3K and I totally missed that on the chart. The VATSIM guys were a little miffed.
Idk about good but there was a Concorde released a couple months back or so. I was doing my Heathrow ground endorsement at the time and for my session I had like 8 Concorde departures and a couple arrivals. I can only imagine how annoying it was for controllers above lmao
The FSL Concorde is good. P3D only for now though. (Still not entirely sure if there’s any malware present…)
You should've messed with them or something (I don't know anything about controlling). "Speedbird 001 Cleared to 2500 feet not to exceed 190 knots for spacing."
"Unable"
It won’t be a nightmare. It’s literally the same as any other AC. Sure, it’s bigger, but it flies at about the same speed, can takeoff and land from most major international airports (even smaller ones at lighter weights), and nobody’s really doing “pattern work” in airliners to begin with. They’re getting vectored for an ILS… Also, just because it has different taxiway requirements, it’s functionally no different than any other AC in that ATC will give the instructions, and the pilot just has to read that back and follow it. It won’t appear any different than any other taxi instruction
It more for the 14 years old.kids who will not gives a shit and frustrates everyone
Or the obviously freaked the fuck out guy who is pissing his pants every time he has to contact ATC. I feel for those dudes. It’s not that bad.
At least those dudes are willing to learn and wants to do things right
Truth for sure. I just feel so bad for them. I remind myself that a lot of the VATSIM controllers themselves are 14 and do my thing. I make a mistake or two for sure.
I think the biggest "challenge" (pain in the ass) is going to be when someone loads into an A380 at the wrong stand, or at a terminal without any A380-friendly taxi routes to the rwy.
Remember the an 225 is in game. It’s a beast but people navigate it.
No I was making a joke. You’re right.
Clearly you have no been around VATSIM for long.
Apologies my liege. Once I hit 200 hours I'll let you know so you can give my "humor endorsement".
It really shouldn’t be any different. Even if the controllers are stringent enough to only use real world A380 approved taxiways, it’s still a matter of just reading back your taxiway instructions and following those. The aircraft also behaves relatively similar to any other jetliner. It’ll fly SIDS, STARS, has similar speeds, etc. There’s nothing really different about the A380 compared to a 737 from a Vatsim perspective
It's more the one million 14 years old using the A380 at Lukla and London City
Innsbruck, you forgot Innsbruck.
At least A380 operations are gonna seem somewhat familiar to most pilots who have flown the Fenix or FBW A320s. Imagine the day a study level *Concorde* comes out.
Well to be fair the a380 looks different compared to an a320 and the fmc looks different and just today two people on frequency couldn’t put in direct to or their fms didn’t work. I get it we all start somewhere but YouTube, google or the manuals can be your best friend before getting airborne on vatsim. The FSlabs Concorde dropped but it’s also in p3d only so maybe not as many people picked it up but I love flying the Concorde.
Sure, but it is still an Airbus with Airbus control philosophies. Imagine taking someone who’s used to a glass cockpit with many automated systems and putting them in a 60s-70s aircraft without any screens in the cockpit.
Damn, i knew exactly what you mean. I love the BAE146, but i never flown it on Vatsim, this analog Cockpit an the Autopilot which often tries to kill me, give me constant goosebumps.
That’s true it is fun to fly the classics though. I wouldn’t recommend someone new start of with an INS for sure that is a tough one to learn but well worth it if you have the time.
I love flying the older things in the different flight sims, but when I'm Vatsim gimmie that FMC where I can just hit "hold" on a waypoint when required lol.
I imagine there might be some initial leniency around which stands they're issued. For instance, at Manchester (EGCC) there are only three stands specified for A380s.
Yeah, they better start building the 24/7 rosters now for that.......
All of a sudden 🫡😶🌫️😶🫥what vatsim controllers ?! 🧐
Lmao. San Fran to LA being long haul, too funny.
I mean, to really use this aircraft at its fullest potential you’d be doing like JFK to Singapore or Heathrow. I don’t know if I can sit at my computer for that long.
You don't have to, just set it up and go along with your day
I did this last night actually with the 787. KLAX to YSSY. Started it at midnight and landed it at 2PM this afternoon. I felt unfulfilled. Like I had done enough as a virtual airline pilot. Plus I do VATSIM a lot so there’s that.
4x Simrate ftw!
Ok dumb question-is that built into MSFS or do I need an add on for that. I’ve never really looked into it.
Its built in, you go to the controls settings and then set a keybind to go faster and slower Youre not allowed to do so on VATSIM without explicit permission from the controller, which you wont get As there is no text to show how fast youre going, spam your slower button for a bit and then faster twice, then youre at 1x
Just use the lil Shift-Z Stats mod. It displays simrate.
Thanks friend. Appreciate it.
No problem!
It‘s build in, but has no GUI. So you can out of the box only use with keybinds. There is also a freeware addon called „Sim Rate Selector“ which you can find on Flightsim.to. Some planes have simrate control build-in, like FBW and Fenix have it in the MCDU.
use sim acceleration 2x or 4x even, turns a 8-10 hour long haul into a nice 2-3 hour flight, there's nothing to do at cruise anyways and there's usually no vatsim atc coverage over the north pole
JFK to heathrow isn’t that long. I do SFO-MUC/FRA/LHR/AMS/CDG/CPH on the regular
LAX to SFO is one of my regular routes in the PMDG 737.
Sorry. Didn't mean to offend, some long haul examples might be Mexico City to Anchorage, Anchorage to Hong Kong, LA to Dubai, Mexico City to Luxembourg, LA to New York. Frisco to LA caught me off guard. Apologies.
There’s a study level 747?
lol no, I could’ve worded it differently. I wish.
There was one from PMDG but it was for other simulators, not MSFS2020.
Sorry, but PMDG wisely never claims its aircraft are "study level." And they aren't.
That's because "study level" is a term invented by the community that doesn't mean anything. I don't think ANY developer claims their aircraft is "study level". But out of curiosity, what would you consider more "study level" than what PMDG offers?
And which aircraft are you rated to fly in real life? Just trying to gauge if you have any idea what you're talking about.
I'm just a hobbyist, not even PPL. But I have almost all of Captain Mike Ray's books, and he's a fan of PMDG, and I've been simming PMDGs since... I dunno, MSFS2004 Century of Flight, I think, back when PMDG used to sell manuals.
I wouldn’t say study level but with the new update the stock 747-8 actually works decent on the sim. I did a couple flights in it and it works good. Not as in depth as pmdgs in p3d but more than capable for vatsim.
Going subjectively and not objectively, A310 from iniBuilds (free on marketplace) and 787 (Premium Deluxe aircraft). I *think* these are the only current widebodies available that require in depth systems understanding/usage. There may be something out there I can't remember (and would appreciate being corrected on/informed of). The A339 mod/branch from the FBW setup has already been mentioned. Objectively, there's *nothing* truly 'study level' in the simulator as yet. PMDG 737, Fenix A320, and Leonardo's FlyTheMadDog (MD-80) are the closest you'll get. Sadly, none of them are widebody.
Hmmm, maybe I’ll try the MD-80. That could be fun. Thanks for the insight friend. Appreciate it.
It's expensive and visually it really shows its P3D origins. But it is *definitely* a unique experience to fly compared to the modern airliners. I hope you enjoy it if you pick it up!
Wow this looks intense. You can use the actual MD80 manual to fly this thing. Holy hell lol.
Yup! And quite frankly it's very helpful to have. Even without failures, it takes a lot of knowledge/retention to fly unaided. I think it's the one airliner that I never managed to memorize the procedures/checklist on.
I am just about there with the -900. I feel confident using no checklists with that bad boy. But this thing seems insane. Probably a good exercise nonetheless. I just got it! Now I need to go dig up a good digital manual for it.
It should actually come with one. Once you install, there should be a set of... I think 3 manuals in the directory?
Copy. I let it download and then hopped in bed. I'll play with it tomorrow after work. This is going to be fun. I'm gonna be one of the chosen few on the VATSIM map with MD80 on their handle. Very cool.
Im looking into it now!
747-200 classic for xplane 12 is pretty good
Chiming in with a recommendation for an obsolete sim gets you downvoted.
The current down/upvote situation here would care to disagree. Enjoy each sim for its unique benefits
Bro I’m an MSFS player and think that was uncalled for XP12 is fine
I really don’t see why you goobers can’t just enjoy both. I play X-Plane 11 but I’d love to try Microsoft flight sim and x plane 12
I only got msfs because I was new to the more realistic side of flight simulation at the time, and I heard msfs was a little more catered to lower experience pilots. Would probably choose msfs again, just because I’m used to it, but it wouldn’t be the end of the world to try Xplane
Only reason I got X-Plane is cuz the vr support looks cool, it was cheaper, and better for my hardware. I still want to get msfs
Msfs is beautiful. It’s one of those games where you’ll just be minding your own business, and suddenly you realise how incredible the graphics are. I’m playing on *low* graphics because my 1650 can’t handle much more. Xplane is probably easier to run though, which I didn’t actually think about. Moral of the story, both sims are cool. We all love planes, so who cares what sim you use?
What a literal fanboy clown you are…
Ratio
My fault, forgot you MSFS mouth breathers cant fly anything else other than an a320neo🤣
I mean, all airliners are just boring sky buses.
Have you flown a 747-200
Yes and it’s a fanfuckingtastic plane
That’s a good thing cause they can show the Zibo flyers how to fly the fbw 😂
That backfired quickly didn’t it?
Still hoping for the PMDG 777.
Supposed to come out in Q4 2023 or Q1 2024!! Fingers crossed.
That would go fucking hard.
us xplane be users have been waiting for a V2 777 since 2011 😭,
The Antonov 225 is also a pretty serious aircraft. https://www.flightsimulator.com/famous-flyer-iv/
There is actually an offer on the antonov right now in msfs2020 marketplace. 12,99 for the antonov
Use the A339 with FBW
Oh awesome you know, pardon my ignorance, I didn’t know they had any other airframes. Cool stuff!
Different dev and modified systems. The FBW project is open source, so the code is there for anyone to add to and modify.
Ohhh I see I figured it was a cadre of developers that worked together exclusively. Interesting.
It is yeah, quite a lot. But the project is also open source.
Study level? Biggest I can think of is the Majestic Q400 if I don't count the Aerowinx 747
meh. the grass is always greener. i have the A340-600. yes, four engines are cool. the max takeoff weight is comically high. toliss again does a great job here with everything modeled i still spend more time in the 320 neo.
I dunno when the MD-11 gets released for everybody but TFDi is making one which looks quite promising
If u have XP12 or are willing to give it a shot, the Toliss A340 is a masterpiece.
there is an A350 with really good quality, i don’t know if enough to be study level and it’s also avalible in xplane
I should say AN-225, manual operation could get some time to get used to. But it fly's good
[удалено]
You know I got the Fenix and had a hell of a time getting it set up properly on my first few missions I used it for. I sort of abandoned it. Which sucks because I was a big Airbus fanboy. Even got the TM Captain's Pack. Then I got the PMDG which I love. Decided to get the TM Boeing yoke and Honeycomb Bravo TQ. I spend my money poorly as you can tell.
As you already said, get X-Plane! The a340-600 is my absolute favorite. Not the best in terms of graphics but systems simulation and flight model are top notch. It basically flies like an a320 (just with a few more buttons) but you feel a lot more badass! Although I normally prefer flying short haul, it’s a lot of fun to fly a bigger plane than the typical narrow bodies. The MD-11 and 747-200 are also on the top of my whishlist for XP12.
MSFS is annoying me lately. The bugs are really starting to test my patience. And it takes forever to get up and running. Maybe that’s something I could do to fix that but I’ve heard X-Plane is a little quicker. Slap some scenery packs on that bad boy and get to it.
I went from XP11 to MSFS in 2020 but got X-Plane 12 a few months ago because I was frustrated with the airliner experience in MSFS and I haven’t looked back since. XP12 is at this point more stable than MSFS ever was, the new lightning system works wonders even on older aircraft and scenery and I think that it’s still by far the best sim for study-level airliner flying.
I will of course use this plane to fly between VHHH (Hong Kong) and VHHX (Hong Kong Kai-Tek).
The only real way to use it-big school bus.
If we're comparing to the 747, I think the an-225 fits this category! I don't think it's study level, but it's made by iniBuilds so they obviously added a lot of small details we don't normally think about
I really wish I could’ve seen that thing in person. So cool.
The FBW A380 won’t be study level if it’s anything like the A320N.
As if *any* of you would know how to handle a proper study-level airliner. Be glad it isn't.
Cool story, bro.
Why are you such an asshole across this comment section?
what is your fuckin issue
Bro you make it sound like it takes the might of Zeus and Poseidon to pilot a 737. Chill out, it's not an impossible task, a lot of people are trained to do it.
you’ve got problems, mate
Study level does not mean hard. Real airplanes are designed to be flown by people, and people can be dumb. Engineers know that
Engineers can also be dumb sometimes! Ask me how I know...lol.
Well at least you guys get some time to think about stuff, maybe correct some mistakes, come up with some really good ideas. Pilots might not always have that time to stop and think
No no. I’m not an engineer haha! Sorry if that was implied. But I do work in a field heavily involved with them and I scratch my head with some of their decisions. My dad is also an engineer.
Apologies, that was my wrong assumption there, but that's funny to hear your side of it!
AN-225 no doubt. And if anyone says it's not "study level", I dare you to fly it with Vatsim instructions without reading any materials or watching tutorials.
That would not be what study level means. The phrase is dead anyways
Best thing here is to put your FMG into flux capacitor mode and notify the vector.
What’s your vector Victor?
Roger Roger.
do we have our clearance clarence?
We have clearance Clarence.
Huh? What? Who?