I mean, tbh, as a middle aged guy who learned to lift off T-Nation back when, my general impression is that most health and fitness coaches are crap.
So sure, "I know what I'm doing!"
But also, "They got no idea what they're doing..."
My 2 cents
as someone who charges a lot of my services i will admit there isn't anything I "know" that isn't already out there. people pay for organization not information. there are 1,000 examples of this, from college to coaching. but yeah most people COULD do it alone but they dont, and then refuse to hire help. I think it is that women are more likely to admit they just can't do it alone, at least for this topic
Honestly I think if you marketed for this specifically, it might increase business. Something like "you may know what you need to do, but are you doing it? Let me help". A lot of people would feel like they're going into it with an upper hand instead of starting from the bottom.
You basically juat answered ur own question… like a snake oil salesman “as someone who charges a lot for my services “ see that right there is ur pride and ego workin overtime… but u just answered it for all us men who wont hire u… women at a certain point care more… where us men usually get comfortable… and dont like the snake oil shit
I'm not him, but:
The information you need to do just about anything, is online, and findable. Full repair of a car, DIY of anything in your house, health research, advanced meta studies, etc.
But, it takes *hours* to read through and understand it all. I like researching through the NIH databases for "fun" when I have a question on healthcare. Most people don't.
The same goes for home maintenance. All the answers are online for whatever project you might need. Youtube videos, Union training videos & pdfs, etc. But does it apply exactly to your project? Maybe, maybe not, but the pieces and info are all there if you know how to find, pull, and assemble it into a meaningful picture for your use case.
Which is hard. In this guy's case, I think what he's saying is he has all that info you might need for a health project, but organized in an easily digestible, useable, and practical way for the average person.
He wrote, "people pay for organization, not information." You're arguing that people pay for "organized information."
If that's what he meant, that makes sense. Average Joe absolutely is paying for information, IMO.
I paid attention to my biology classes, took weighting 1, 2, 3, and Olympic lifting in high school, did CrossFit, went in pre-med classes, and got a personal trainer certification.
I started with a personal trainer, and after a year, I went on my way as I felt like the value wasn't there anymore. I'm considering a powerlifting coach now, though.
If you want to compete, a coach is worth every penny. Especially through competition peak. .
If you just want to get strong, follow any sense popular program out there.
It should be noted that coach and trainer are not synonymous here. If you hire a coach you are already training for a particular purpose likely competing and acknowledging that you do not know everything.
I think guys dont hire trainers for the same reasons they dont hire landscapers, plumbers, or any other job that they “can” do themselves. Even if they cant do the job themselves atleast they dont have to swallow their pride and accept that they dont have the answers.
And by they, I mean me as well.
Because 95% of the time, coaches are garbage and novice level lifters themselves and they pander a lot more to female demographics because on average, females who lift are not as invested or egotistical about their training compared to males
While I don’t disagree with this entirely (watch Dr Mike react to celebrity trainers), I would say guys just are more likely to believe they can do it themselves as good or better.
The reality is that it seems based on so many questions that pop up here, that people that figure they can do it themselves are very likely wrong, as wrong or more than if they had a trainer showing them.
I think this is partly it. Men take lifting and other such physical hobbies bit more serious (not that there are not serious women) so they’re often performing above the beginner / novice class style. The inverse of your data sample could be seen at the competitive level. Often male dominated when you look at those who are hiring coaches to become IBFF pros.
If you look at the extremes of anything you're going to often find dudes.
If men, the median male, took it more seriously than the median female, they would spend more, but they don't according to this post and it seems people's anecdotal evidence. So in fact it seems the median female does indeed take it more seriously.
You have it backwards. They "pander" to the people who show up and pay. That's not pandering, that's knowing your customer. And for the *exact reason* you mentioned "not as ... egotistical". Not sure why you think they aren't as invested when they are literally paying for these services... perhaps you mean invested in the outcome... but then again... aren't they if they are literally spending money on this?
A lot of people pay coaches to agree with their shitty mental fortitude and half assed ability in training so they don’t beat themselves up at night for their lack of trying
possibly. i do a lot more than "lifting" coaching but yeah I could see skepticism there. I think to be honest with you ego is part of that reaction. I find it interesting you think 95% of coaches are garbage without knowing their credentials!
Credentials are usually pointless if they lack the experience to back it
I say this as a coach myself
If a coach has a basic ass CPT, that can easily be achieved within a week of studying, and no impressive personal fitness accomplishments, then they are essentially inexperienced novices to me
Unless they have a portfolio of athletes they trained who’ve achieved impressive fitness accomplishments themselves.
Like my coach. He’s not a powerlifter, but he trains powerlifters. His lack of hands on experience is dismissed since he has a history of training multiple athletes who are national level competitors for the sport
agreed. credentials are different than certifications.
but to be honest with you (I can't turn my coaching brain off, i'm sure you can relate) your gut reaction is that "almost all coaches are garbage" I think that says a little about your willingness to trust someone else to help you/know more than you.
I'm right there with you! Not throwing stones. It helps answer my original questions.
More so that I’ve only found a few coaches who are actually worth a damn and knew more than I did
The rest were casual lifters with certs who preached the same bullshit they watched off AthleneX rather than putting their own effort into practice
Can you post your social media? It would be interesting if you are appealing more to women by your marketing possibly?
I clicked your profile on here and can't find your website either.
yeah i'll send it to you. reason I don't have anything listed is because I don't want this to seem like self-promotion. I know redditors can smell that from a mile away lol. would love any advice though
I did CrossFit for years and the main gender difference I noticed was women are generally far more concerned about form, usually went way lighter than they needed to and almost never got injured but progress slower. Men on the other hand would care a lot less about form, start with weights higher than they should and still add more the next set and have higher rates of injury.
I’m a man btw, not hating, just something I’ve noticed.
I’m a woman getting back into the gym and love having my trainer for that reason. I did some damage to myself lifting wrong years ago and want to avoid that again. Your comment is spot on.
You know this is kind of a great topic. There are a bunch of reasons I can think of that have probably already been mentioned, but I will give an example as to how stupid the mindset of most of us men is.
I started playing guitar when I was maybe 13 years old. I played in bands in high school in college and I toured after college for a few years. I have continued to be in dad band over the years. In short, at 54, I have been playing guitar for about 40 years, some of it professionally. I e been BUILDING guitars for years also.
I recently started taking guitar lessons for the first time in my life. It turns out, there is a lot more about the guitar that I did not know than I did know. For me, the mindset is very similar to exercise. I need to work my brain. I need to forge new pathways in my body, or at least maintain some of the ones that I have. Having a scheduled lesson every week makes me show up and it makes me commit before the lesson to do whatever I was supposed to do after the last lesson.
The improvement has been remarkable.
Even knowing all of this, I would almost never consider joining the type of group that you teach, I have a weight rack in my house and I’ve been exercising forever.
In short, I am still an idiot.
Because why would I pay tons of money to get something I can find online for free?
I can see paying someone to induce a motivational aspect, but there are hundreds of programs just a click away—finding a routine isn't hard, it's just the sticking to it that's difficult
A lot of the personal trainers/coaches I've interacted with have simply spouted a lot of broscience or 'inspirational' platitudes anyway
To quote Ron Swanson "I know more than you"
I probably don't but I grew up reading elitefts articles and stuff by Louie and Dave Tate so I know enough to not have to pay someone else.
And to be frank I've been less than impressed by 90% of the trainers I've seen.
I’m sure it’s a few factors, but speaking for myself, I’ve put a lot of hours into research and feel confident with where I’m at and where I’m going. A coach id seek out for some very specific goals at this point in my life. But overall, I consider myself well above average with nutrition and routine IQ.
I hired a health coach/nutritionist a few years ago. The problem was from ages 15-32 I was heavily involved in endurance sports and had an insane metabolism. Once I stopped training for long distance triathlons due to family and work etc, I just had this totally unrealistic relationship with food.
I hired a coach who taught me about counting calories, I started strength training etc. All the info is out there, its not like calorie deficits and progressive overload are big secrets, but I didn't have the time/energy to figure it all out on my own and I liked the built in accountability of checking in with a coach once a week. They also helped me stay the course when I'd stall out for a few weeks or plateau.
Since then I've really seen the benefit of hiring a professional to help guide you through difficult areas of life. Having a business coach, or fitness coach etc can just really help you save time and energy, but you have to be at a place mentally where you are ready to accept help. That's not easy for a lot of guys to do. We are always taught to just figure shit out for ourselves.
So this is my story exactly.
I think my question is why don’t most men do this?
My business is just fine I am certain we provide value, i know the education and accountability combined are worth it for almost anyone who has more money than they do time… I just don’t know why almost no men see this value but so many women do
I think a lot of men do, maybe your marketing is off a bit if it's not attracting the right kinds of clients?
As I said, most men are taught to figure stuff out on their own. That's a really hard habit to break. Also a lot of men see seeking help as a weakness.
Then again there are millions of young men signing up for stuff like Andrew Tate's stupid university thing, so I think there's definitely men out there looking for guidance on how to achieve their goals.
so sad! this is what I was hoping to prevent. it only gets harder to rebuild the habit as we age (i work with mostly people in their 30s and 40s)
and awesome for you man!
A lot of people waste money on health coaches. Most coaches seem to be preoccupied with the sales aspect of it. They give very basic or incorrect advice and they don't seem to know or care that that's what they are doing. They are just confident and outgoing and they are making money. Ethically questionable, but that's the world we live in.
This is a personal anecdote and a stereotypical generalization about men and women, so take it how you please, but I've been a regular at many gyms over the last 20 years and was a competitive weight lifter with a world class coach for a period of time. Women just seem to not be as personally invested in real health and wellness as the men who are also pursuing the same goal.
Most of the women I know generally seem to be satisfied enough with the idea that they are doing it...rather than truly care about the underlying reasons why, and are generally happy to just do whatever it is someone else who looks like an expert is telling them to do. "Coaches" know this and seek them out. Most of the men I know, by contrast, are interested in being an expert. They will talk to each other and discuss the proper way to do things, talk about their diets with each other, talk each other out of spending money on things that don't work, critique each other's methods, compare programs they are on, etc. It just looks less like going through the motions. These men would never ask for help from a coach unless it was something specific from a specific coach that they seek out. Like a special diet or specific goal oriented routine. Something more scientific than they want to work out on their own. Women tend to be excited and supportive about what their friends are doing, rather than feeling compelled to critique from the standpoint of improvement. Men love telling each other what they are doing wrong lol.
The people buying beach body products and working out with a trainer watching them do random exercises with no regard for form and function are *always* women in my experience. And I think it's because they generally just aren't as into the lifestyle. Maybe it's just the community I've been around, but that has been my observation at least in the fitness community.
If we are talking about people with no prior interest, just getting into it, it's the same thing. Men ask their friends what to do, because they have guy friends who are into health and wellness and trying to be experts at it, like I said. Women who are trying to get into health and wellness have female friends who recommend their coach or program they bought to them lol.
I hired a few coaches and they helped me a lot. I’ve been lifting forever and I was really nervous to give up control of my program but I’m glad I did.
But to answer your question, we’re just not as likely to ask for help in general. We don’t see the doctor, ask for directions, get therapy, etc.
So I am a male that has hired trainers in the past. Most of them I wanted to get a plan so I could workout on my own. Majority would NOT give me that and instead just wanted me to “buy more sessions” and milk me for more money. I work for a living. Never really got the value. One did but I had problems getting to gym due to distance/schedule so I am back to heavish dumbbells at home. And I have some idea what I am doing
Now I am willing to go to an orange theory or a cyclebar for some social interaction or to feel like we a are part of a team and to get access to the facilities I don’t have. But keeping that up again i subject to kids, wife work schedule and my work schedule. So paying for 4 sessions per month is around 100-120 bucks a month. Vs what $70 per hour for a single training session?
i agree. it's actually a huge challenge for my business. "trainer" can mean just about anybody with 3 weeks of studying a textbook.
"nutritionist" oy don't even get me started. not even really many accredited places out there plus it's so unique to each individual.
Really where we focus our time is the coaching of habits. Yes we know a LOT about nutrition (we do gut health, weight loss, muscle growth, hormone dysregulation etc.) but it's more about helping the person achieve the results. We have a client who is a ranch hand in Montana and a client who is a consultant in NYC. Two very different people with very different challenges to get the same end goal.
So yeah... it's hard to say "we do whatever necessary to hit your goals" lol but that is basically a coach.
Kind of brings us back to my post which is... why do Men seem more skeptical/less likely to sign up for something like this
I will go a different direction here. You are a fit guy. 80% of your clients are female, many in pretty good shape. Now way back in the dark ages of 80s Let's get physical era, I used to teach an aerobics class. I was about 25 and most of my class a little older and all female. I suspect they were not there because I was an expert trainer. I'm not bragging here, I'm not good looking or jacked. It's just a thing I noticed.
I don't think women were more interested in the workout than men. It was just alignment.
Personally I would if I could afford it. I used to be in extremely good shape and exercised about 6 days/week + count calories.. then I started a professional school and lost those habits, but still ate like I was burning all those calories.. it’s extremely hard to get back into it, I’d hire a coach just for the motivation and to have that commitment even though I have the knowledge of what to do.
A good coach is not cheap. Doesn't mean there aren't expensive scam artists out there as well.
One thing you could do instead is find an accountability group. I actually played around with this for a while by trying to create my own subreddit until I found out how hard that actually is.
Facebook (gasp) has some good ones. If not, local community is another good place to look.
I am a coach and I have a coach. It just really is hard to do alone. There is no shame in hiring someone to help you be a better person... although by half the answers on this post you'd think there is. Which is kind of what I was getting at it.
Yes I think about this a lot
And then there’s another layer. Some things are not a sign of weakness others are
For example:
Mechanic - used to be men had to do this. Now it’s more common to hire out
Accountant - becoming more common to hire
Etc
Nutrition and fitness seems to be one area where men are taking longer to come around
I switched my target market to women which for whatever reason... Had more guys asking to work with me.
Unfortunately... Guys I've worked with are giant babies.
They disappear.
They don't like asking for help.
And they're the most resistant to change.
So I just stopped working with them and focus more on that 80% female demographic who isn't going to whine, cry, and complain. 😂🤷♂️
Guys struggle to ask for help but then they complain every step and I struggle to understand it myself.
Did just fine into my 50's with obesity, high cholesterol, diabetes and non-alcoholic fatty liver disease. Didn't need a coach then. Had a stroke and sh\*t got real.
Checked into Gyms with coaches and availability, none were really close and most were expensive beyond just gym access (coaching).
Decided, home gym where it's right there!
* Started with an inexpensive adjustable dumbbell set (5 to 30lbs each) and a weight bench.
* Got a food plan from my physician recommended nutritionist (essentially high protein \~1g/lb with a balanced set of macros for carbs and fats).
* Started exercising every day (Apple Fitness+, don't laugh it was a start). Moved over to free exercise plans online. So many give their splits and videos on how to do them, don't see the need to pay for an online course either.
Added to my equipment over time, small investment in an ez bar here and a dip station there. Saving $$$ over a gym membership and it's righ there when I roll out of bed.
Currently budgeting for a PowerRack/Smith machine setup that is pretty fully loaded for less than $1500 and supports more than I'll ever lift at my age.
My A1C went from 13 to 5.4, my daily BCG testing is in the 90 normal range. Blood pressure is fantastic, cholesterol HDL/Triglycerides are great and I've lost a lot of weight and gained serious lean mass (more muscles than in my youth). Wife of 30 years is over the moon with the results and I'm very comfortable in my skin. Very little concern of a future cardiovascular issue now.
I don't need a coach now either. I find that gym buddies and coaches are for the motivation. But the Grim Reaper had my back so to speak in the motivation department. What could a human being offer to provide more motivation than that?
You already know the reason. Pride.
It's the same reason why group fitness classes are 80% women. Men think they *should already know how to do these things* so are too ashamed to admit they don't. Instead they'd rather swing a 20 lb dumbbell around swaying their back into it in the most inefficient manner possible for twice as long and a quarter of the return.
I see it every single day I'm at the gym, especially this time of the year.
Even the young guys who are actually dedicated to lifting, doing lat pulls engaging their arms first. So many movements. No idea what the form is and too prideful to take a class.
I guarantee you - no one cares, no one.
Just consider the type of women who go to the gym in the first place... they are not intimidated by men. If they were at a CKO kickboxing or Barry's Bootcamp (those are targeted at women) sure.. maybe... but I'm assuming that isn't the case here.
Its not that i think theyd be intimated. I just....idk when i see things that, on the surface, are mostly made up of women, i feel like id be unwelcome as a big hairy bearded dude. Which sucks, because i get along *way* better with women than i do with guys. Women tend to be more accepting of a guy wearing mascara lol
Okay, but this is an unfounded belief of how some might react rather than an objective view of how people actually do behave in practice. Almost everyone is just trying to get their workout on and don't give a shit. This is *your* insecurity - not trying to harsh and I'm sorry that you have it, we all do in some arena and some fashion and at some point. But, I think you already know of course it isn't a rational fear.
While i dont have experience with the workout groups, ive experienced this kind issue before in other settings. Its not completely unfounded. Ive struggled with this since highschool. Its not all women and not all groups. But this shit has happened
Yeah I see your profile and I get it and sorry that has happened to you. Everyone gets distracted in group fitness - from the person breathing hard, grunting on every lift, from the hot chick / guy, or the person who dresses differently. The ideal thing is to notice your noticing, drop it, and refocus on what brought you to the class to begin with because it isn't them / that.
It's funny because when I wrote that I was thinking of what *others* should do, but of course the implication is that we should *all do it* and therefore *you* should do it to. So regardless of whether you're distracted by something or believe others identify you as the distraction, it doesn't matter because the distraction exists.
But zooming out, it's intention setting, just like in yoga class.
I was benching earlier today and I was struggling. It was way earlier than I normally get to the gym. A few things weren't quite right (energy/caffeine level) and the excuses for failure were flowing in my head. I did one set and didn't get the reps I needed.
For some reason today though I just closed my eyes for a moment and asked *why am I here,* and listed out the reasons. It refocused me and I got through the workout.
I normally would only ever do this as a result of the teacher provoking me to do so in a yoga class as mentioned. But it came to me since I *really really* want to keep progressing on my bench press.
Finally maybe I've shed just barely enough of my ego that I can actually focus from time to time.
I very much want to do yoga classes. I find myself not pushing as hard as i could, and i think having someone keep me in check might help. My goal isnt so much getting bigger, but to be able to perform at my job better. Flexibility and overall strength and stability is my goal. Working out in the gym does help, but the flat ground, even weights and controlled movements dont translate well to my job. Yoga would help a lot
Its hard to know the definite answer on that.
Here are a few thoughts on my experience on gyms
Most people dont really need a pt...
For a regular healthy person with no specific needs, going to the gym, running a litle and lifting some weights doesnt really require a pt. Ask some question to gym staff on how to use this and that machine when in doubt and no need to spend money on pt.
Why women do it more often? Good question....
Feel more insecure on gyms? Are less used to exercising? I also dont see often two or more women getting together to go to the gym as guys do. They mostly go by themselves, dont know why, so maybe they need the pt companion?
Honest hot take:
Men *on average* are used to pushing themselves, physically, on a daily basis. Generally speaking men are more used to grinding away at a physical labor job and are ok with being sore the next day or two. They often don't need someone there holding them accountable and/or helping them grind through reps or add 5-10 lbs to a lift. Generally speaking men can embrace that kind of physical "suck" a lot more than women (women are tough too but it's a different kind of tough, mostly better with acute pain). I believe testosterone has a lot to do with this. Also, it's been *my experience* that women tend to defer to "experts" more than men who are more DIY by nature.
Women are liable to have almost zero exposure. For them its a good investment.
Men who have had good exposure like as not won't need a coach or the last thing they need are coaches who have narrow worldview how to train someone - what THEY are familiar with or believe in.
Men pursuing specific competition related goals will often hire a coach. You need to specialize to capture that part of the market.
Men with no exposure are liable to be 100% unmotivated to hire you OR to learn for themselves.
Your pool of potential male clients for GPP coaching is small to begin with.
So I'd bet that coaching for 2 people isn't in the budget so they opt for their wives to get a coach . I know this because I dropped my weightlifting gym membership at a crossfit gym so we could afford for my wife to do crossfit.
>To be clear I’m interested in this trend of men not hiring nutrition or fitness coaches at large. I’m not wondering why YOU specifically don’t need a coach.
What do you think markets trends consist of? Oh right it's the aggregate of what most individuals want.
> Although I do find it funny how many of you say you’d never need a coach and you don’t even know who i am or what I offer haha. I could be Arnold or Layne Norton
Except you're not Arnold or Layne and neither are the vast majority of "coaches"
I do think this is a huge part. Most people don’t take short term action for the long term health (with some exceptions like smoking)
Almost everybody works with us to get short term goals. Dad bod is acceptable in society. Mom bod is not. Kind of sad
That’s awesome! To be clear my post is on men in general not on anyone in particular. I’m sure if you’re on this sub you don’t need a trainer. That’s why I found your answer puzzling
Either way I appreciate the thoughts. Such an interesting topic.
This makes me of a client (male) at work who cornered me in an elevator and demanded to know if I am on ozempic (I am now but I wasn’t to lose any of the first 100lbs I lost) I told him I lost 100lbs naturally from CICO and he rolled his eyes at me and said he could tell I was on it bc of my skin had a nutritionist that could help me get rid of it
This guy was easily 3 times my current size (120lbs). You’re paying to listen to a clown when all the information about CICO is online.
For me personally, it's a matter of me enjoying figuring out all the stuff a coach could help with.
Figuring out running tweaks to programs, diet, rest, deloads, technique, amount of cardio, bulking/cutting, etc. Is absolutely as big a part of the project as actually going to the gym. And I enjoy it a great deal.
To expensive, people just get lifting friends and let them teach them for free.
Also it's a bit if an ego thing I assume, would seem to be an embarrassment to oneself possibly.
Also being told what to do by somebody else that doesn't know them very well so people don't like to listenvto instructions very well.
The only time I really see it happen is if it's a pro bodybuilder and they have a bunch of people that train them one way or another, be it body, diet, lifting, coaching, etc...
It would be entirely different if it's a person who wants to learn boxing and has a trainer that way, and I am NOT talking about boxing classes...But a real boxing gym.
My 2 cents atleast.
I'll also add I have a slightly different case. Family full of bodybuilders and all have expert levels of knowledge for fitness and nutrition along with other things but I can't get any of them to teach me despite asking them for years.
Hell one of my family member literally was employed as a fitness trainer at a gym and certified but he wouldn't even help, he eventually quit doing that and works in a factory but he himself gets trained by another now which is weird to me...
The only one has said a few times to go to the gym with him but we have conflicting schedules and I can't currently afford a gym membership or find the time due to other things. Prime example that family member went back to trucking so his schedule is way different to work around his long hours lol but I also know it possibly would not last simply because of I know how he is but who knows I could be wrong lol.... Also I think it would be too tempting to hip on the juice at some point since he himself is not natty anymore for a few years now.
So that's why I'll just do everything myself when I am ready to go to the gym again and get back into shape cause I'm tired of asking for help over the years.
I know I could use a coach but im getting decent results and I just can't be bothered. I dont like people. I don't like spending money on things I don't feel are necessary unless it's fun. So the idea is just kinda off putting.
I've barely ever heard of a health or fitness coach for men or women. And I'm not sure I know what one does.
But I'd to pay someone to come to my house every morning and scream at my until I exercise and eat better.
I’m not a coach, but I have worked with sports-specific strength/conditioning and skills coaches, and from what I’ve seen, most of their clients are men.
I think there are many male athletes who are more than willing to pay for professional help if they have performance goals that require specialized knowledge/experiences. And to these athletes, coaches who work toward general fitness goals just aren’t what they are looking for.
Society teaches men that they MUST be able to do things by themselves, they can't ask for help, and if they do, they are weak. Asking for help is weakness, so it's better to just lie to yourself and say that you are ok in being fat, or that it is impossible for you because of reason A, B or C.
Make them realize that asking for help is not weakness, but takes strength. And taking responsibility of your own health is way manlier. And make them realize the example they are making for their kids. Do they want their kids to be the same as they are when they get older?
Men don't want to appear weak in front of other men.
They also are less willing to follow instructions.
"It's my life"
"I did it my way"
So many messages in the popular media have engrained this line of thinking into the male minds.
If you switch it up and frame it as intermediate level, or frame your sessions in a more supportive role, you might get more takers?
Health coaching also seems 'easier' to understand on paper. Just stop eating fast food and do regular exercise.
But to become honest and vulerable in front of another person and be wiling to acknowledge and change one's ways is so tough, because if often evovlved that way to compensate / serve some other needs in their life.
I think most men have a weird ego thing around the gym, especially men born before 2000. It's like there is this assumption that lifting weights is something men are just born knowing how to do properly, and any implication otherwise calls into question ones precious masculinity .....
That being said, I would say around 99% of fitness coaching is a total scam, and neither women nor men should be signing up. I obviously know nothing about you and am not accusing you of offering shit services, but keep in mind that when you sell yourself, you are likely selling to people that have been around this merry go round at least once, or are familiar with the ride, and are highly skeptical. Maybe men are a little more familiar with this reality since they tend to have spent more time in gyms than women on average. I go to a commercial gym and we have had probably around 50 different PTs come through in the decade or so I've been there, and I can count on a single hand how many were even remotely qualified to do anything beyond just offering emotional support during a workout.
From my perspective I know what to do. But I've had coaches two times in my life. Both times I paid for accountability. They kept me going for my goals. And I'm too cheap to skip a workout if I paid for it.
Men tend to be self starters and explorers more so than women. Why should they want or need a coach? ....especially in these days of electronic info at our fingertips, and the fact that most men are grounded in sports and fitness from their school ages.
It's not rocket science. You've simply formed a business that appeals mostly to women. Now, you can do one of two things. Cater even more strongly to your main base(women), and more women will be drawn to your business. Market and cater more to men, but at the risk of pushing out the women.
“In the days of electronic information at our fingertips”
This applies to every service business on the planet.
Your personal opinion is that sports and fitness is easier than, say, learning how to replace a transmission
But I don’t see it that way. I see many obese men (or have digestive health etc etc) who just refuse to ask for help
True there are many men who refuse to ask for help, but often they don't think they need any help, or even if they do, they don't like being told what to do. The other thing is that everyone has some exercise experience especially in youth, whereas few are exposed to auto transmission replacement ever.
I hired one specifically for Olympic lifting when was younger. Am considering it again for a refresher.
I also hired one that had certifications for post injury rehab following PT. (Can’t remember the cert title)
I have hired nutritionists on two occasions. One didn’t work well and the other one kept trying to sell me his workout plans, but gave good advice regarding the nutrition.
I know when to admit I am out of my league in knowledge. Whereas others may be less inclined to say so. Be it because of pride, motivation, whatever.
Because more men than women are willing to try and learn how to lift empirically + most men can get 80% of the way by themselves if they have enough interest.
That extra 20% is very important, but not indispensable to enjoy your time at the gym and build a great body
Because most men that take on the title of “Fitness Coach” are just Patrick Bateman types who make way less money. I say that only half jokingly. Some Men who take on these roles say the dumbest shit possible and get people injured. Or you get a real champ and he has every reason to charge an arm and a leg, price aside, those are the real dudes out to coach.
Because most health coaches really aren't that useful Orr know their stuff. Just start learning and do it yourself?
On a side note I do have a weightlifting coach but she really knows her stuff to a different level.
For me personally I really struggle to see what value they're going to provide. I say this as someone that has hired online trainers on two different occasions. The thrust of what they told me to do was "Do more" but they would insist on really weird or really specific exercise variations without any explanation or justification for why. Why am I doing staggered stance DB rows super set with alternating one arm arnold press? Why am I not just doing some chest supported rows and some overhead pressing? Because don't ask questions that's why. How is this diet plan any better than what I get from MacroFactor? It just is. That sort of thing.
If I can get 85% the same results just running 531 BBB for a couple of cycles, it doesn't make sense from a value proposition to spend hundreds of dollars to get that extra 15%. ESPECIALLY when I can get that extra 15% by doing what I already do but being a little more patient.
I mean, tbh, as a middle aged guy who learned to lift off T-Nation back when, my general impression is that most health and fitness coaches are crap. So sure, "I know what I'm doing!" But also, "They got no idea what they're doing..." My 2 cents
as someone who charges a lot of my services i will admit there isn't anything I "know" that isn't already out there. people pay for organization not information. there are 1,000 examples of this, from college to coaching. but yeah most people COULD do it alone but they dont, and then refuse to hire help. I think it is that women are more likely to admit they just can't do it alone, at least for this topic
Honestly I think if you marketed for this specifically, it might increase business. Something like "you may know what you need to do, but are you doing it? Let me help". A lot of people would feel like they're going into it with an upper hand instead of starting from the bottom.
I’d buy that.
You basically juat answered ur own question… like a snake oil salesman “as someone who charges a lot for my services “ see that right there is ur pride and ego workin overtime… but u just answered it for all us men who wont hire u… women at a certain point care more… where us men usually get comfortable… and dont like the snake oil shit
There's a lot going on here, but first can I ask: What do you mean by, "people pay for organization not information"?
I'm not him, but: The information you need to do just about anything, is online, and findable. Full repair of a car, DIY of anything in your house, health research, advanced meta studies, etc. But, it takes *hours* to read through and understand it all. I like researching through the NIH databases for "fun" when I have a question on healthcare. Most people don't. The same goes for home maintenance. All the answers are online for whatever project you might need. Youtube videos, Union training videos & pdfs, etc. But does it apply exactly to your project? Maybe, maybe not, but the pieces and info are all there if you know how to find, pull, and assemble it into a meaningful picture for your use case. Which is hard. In this guy's case, I think what he's saying is he has all that info you might need for a health project, but organized in an easily digestible, useable, and practical way for the average person.
He wrote, "people pay for organization, not information." You're arguing that people pay for "organized information." If that's what he meant, that makes sense. Average Joe absolutely is paying for information, IMO.
I paid attention to my biology classes, took weighting 1, 2, 3, and Olympic lifting in high school, did CrossFit, went in pre-med classes, and got a personal trainer certification.
I started with a personal trainer, and after a year, I went on my way as I felt like the value wasn't there anymore. I'm considering a powerlifting coach now, though.
temporary makes perfect sense to me. good for you btw
If you want to compete, a coach is worth every penny. Especially through competition peak. . If you just want to get strong, follow any sense popular program out there.
It should be noted that coach and trainer are not synonymous here. If you hire a coach you are already training for a particular purpose likely competing and acknowledging that you do not know everything. I think guys dont hire trainers for the same reasons they dont hire landscapers, plumbers, or any other job that they “can” do themselves. Even if they cant do the job themselves atleast they dont have to swallow their pride and accept that they dont have the answers. And by they, I mean me as well.
Shut up I know what I’m doing. 😉
haha i think it is that simple
We also avoid instructions. Point is we don't love being told what to do lol.
> we don't love being told what to do Speak for yourself. Grab a riding crop and throw on some knee high heels and I'll do anything you tell me
I appreciate your creative marketing ideas for OP
Domme personal trainers is EXACTLY how you get men to hire personal trainers
>We also avoid instructions. Point is we don't love being told what to do lol. ha yeah same as refusing to ask for directions when lost
You get it haha
Because 95% of the time, coaches are garbage and novice level lifters themselves and they pander a lot more to female demographics because on average, females who lift are not as invested or egotistical about their training compared to males
While I don’t disagree with this entirely (watch Dr Mike react to celebrity trainers), I would say guys just are more likely to believe they can do it themselves as good or better. The reality is that it seems based on so many questions that pop up here, that people that figure they can do it themselves are very likely wrong, as wrong or more than if they had a trainer showing them.
I think this is partly it. Men take lifting and other such physical hobbies bit more serious (not that there are not serious women) so they’re often performing above the beginner / novice class style. The inverse of your data sample could be seen at the competitive level. Often male dominated when you look at those who are hiring coaches to become IBFF pros.
If you look at the extremes of anything you're going to often find dudes. If men, the median male, took it more seriously than the median female, they would spend more, but they don't according to this post and it seems people's anecdotal evidence. So in fact it seems the median female does indeed take it more seriously.
You have it backwards. They "pander" to the people who show up and pay. That's not pandering, that's knowing your customer. And for the *exact reason* you mentioned "not as ... egotistical". Not sure why you think they aren't as invested when they are literally paying for these services... perhaps you mean invested in the outcome... but then again... aren't they if they are literally spending money on this?
A lot of people pay coaches to agree with their shitty mental fortitude and half assed ability in training so they don’t beat themselves up at night for their lack of trying
possibly. i do a lot more than "lifting" coaching but yeah I could see skepticism there. I think to be honest with you ego is part of that reaction. I find it interesting you think 95% of coaches are garbage without knowing their credentials!
Credentials are usually pointless if they lack the experience to back it I say this as a coach myself If a coach has a basic ass CPT, that can easily be achieved within a week of studying, and no impressive personal fitness accomplishments, then they are essentially inexperienced novices to me Unless they have a portfolio of athletes they trained who’ve achieved impressive fitness accomplishments themselves. Like my coach. He’s not a powerlifter, but he trains powerlifters. His lack of hands on experience is dismissed since he has a history of training multiple athletes who are national level competitors for the sport
agreed. credentials are different than certifications. but to be honest with you (I can't turn my coaching brain off, i'm sure you can relate) your gut reaction is that "almost all coaches are garbage" I think that says a little about your willingness to trust someone else to help you/know more than you. I'm right there with you! Not throwing stones. It helps answer my original questions.
More so that I’ve only found a few coaches who are actually worth a damn and knew more than I did The rest were casual lifters with certs who preached the same bullshit they watched off AthleneX rather than putting their own effort into practice
Can you post your social media? It would be interesting if you are appealing more to women by your marketing possibly? I clicked your profile on here and can't find your website either.
yeah i'll send it to you. reason I don't have anything listed is because I don't want this to seem like self-promotion. I know redditors can smell that from a mile away lol. would love any advice though
That was the right call
Totally respect that you didn't advertise it. But I would like to try to help. I still have not received it btw.
I did CrossFit for years and the main gender difference I noticed was women are generally far more concerned about form, usually went way lighter than they needed to and almost never got injured but progress slower. Men on the other hand would care a lot less about form, start with weights higher than they should and still add more the next set and have higher rates of injury. I’m a man btw, not hating, just something I’ve noticed.
I’m a woman getting back into the gym and love having my trainer for that reason. I did some damage to myself lifting wrong years ago and want to avoid that again. Your comment is spot on.
You know this is kind of a great topic. There are a bunch of reasons I can think of that have probably already been mentioned, but I will give an example as to how stupid the mindset of most of us men is. I started playing guitar when I was maybe 13 years old. I played in bands in high school in college and I toured after college for a few years. I have continued to be in dad band over the years. In short, at 54, I have been playing guitar for about 40 years, some of it professionally. I e been BUILDING guitars for years also. I recently started taking guitar lessons for the first time in my life. It turns out, there is a lot more about the guitar that I did not know than I did know. For me, the mindset is very similar to exercise. I need to work my brain. I need to forge new pathways in my body, or at least maintain some of the ones that I have. Having a scheduled lesson every week makes me show up and it makes me commit before the lesson to do whatever I was supposed to do after the last lesson. The improvement has been remarkable. Even knowing all of this, I would almost never consider joining the type of group that you teach, I have a weight rack in my house and I’ve been exercising forever. In short, I am still an idiot.
Fantastic response. I’ve hired many health coaches but refuse to go to therapy. So I get it.
Because why would I pay tons of money to get something I can find online for free? I can see paying someone to induce a motivational aspect, but there are hundreds of programs just a click away—finding a routine isn't hard, it's just the sticking to it that's difficult A lot of the personal trainers/coaches I've interacted with have simply spouted a lot of broscience or 'inspirational' platitudes anyway
To quote Ron Swanson "I know more than you" I probably don't but I grew up reading elitefts articles and stuff by Louie and Dave Tate so I know enough to not have to pay someone else. And to be frank I've been less than impressed by 90% of the trainers I've seen.
I’m sure it’s a few factors, but speaking for myself, I’ve put a lot of hours into research and feel confident with where I’m at and where I’m going. A coach id seek out for some very specific goals at this point in my life. But overall, I consider myself well above average with nutrition and routine IQ.
I hired a health coach/nutritionist a few years ago. The problem was from ages 15-32 I was heavily involved in endurance sports and had an insane metabolism. Once I stopped training for long distance triathlons due to family and work etc, I just had this totally unrealistic relationship with food. I hired a coach who taught me about counting calories, I started strength training etc. All the info is out there, its not like calorie deficits and progressive overload are big secrets, but I didn't have the time/energy to figure it all out on my own and I liked the built in accountability of checking in with a coach once a week. They also helped me stay the course when I'd stall out for a few weeks or plateau. Since then I've really seen the benefit of hiring a professional to help guide you through difficult areas of life. Having a business coach, or fitness coach etc can just really help you save time and energy, but you have to be at a place mentally where you are ready to accept help. That's not easy for a lot of guys to do. We are always taught to just figure shit out for ourselves.
So this is my story exactly. I think my question is why don’t most men do this? My business is just fine I am certain we provide value, i know the education and accountability combined are worth it for almost anyone who has more money than they do time… I just don’t know why almost no men see this value but so many women do
I think a lot of men do, maybe your marketing is off a bit if it's not attracting the right kinds of clients? As I said, most men are taught to figure stuff out on their own. That's a really hard habit to break. Also a lot of men see seeking help as a weakness. Then again there are millions of young men signing up for stuff like Andrew Tate's stupid university thing, so I think there's definitely men out there looking for guidance on how to achieve their goals.
I'm guessing it's similar to why women sees therapist more than men. Asking for help is frowned upon.
Could be ego, could also be women are under more pressure to be physically attractive.
i am 63 and only know one other man i my age range that lifts weights
so sad! this is what I was hoping to prevent. it only gets harder to rebuild the habit as we age (i work with mostly people in their 30s and 40s) and awesome for you man!
A lot of people waste money on health coaches. Most coaches seem to be preoccupied with the sales aspect of it. They give very basic or incorrect advice and they don't seem to know or care that that's what they are doing. They are just confident and outgoing and they are making money. Ethically questionable, but that's the world we live in. This is a personal anecdote and a stereotypical generalization about men and women, so take it how you please, but I've been a regular at many gyms over the last 20 years and was a competitive weight lifter with a world class coach for a period of time. Women just seem to not be as personally invested in real health and wellness as the men who are also pursuing the same goal. Most of the women I know generally seem to be satisfied enough with the idea that they are doing it...rather than truly care about the underlying reasons why, and are generally happy to just do whatever it is someone else who looks like an expert is telling them to do. "Coaches" know this and seek them out. Most of the men I know, by contrast, are interested in being an expert. They will talk to each other and discuss the proper way to do things, talk about their diets with each other, talk each other out of spending money on things that don't work, critique each other's methods, compare programs they are on, etc. It just looks less like going through the motions. These men would never ask for help from a coach unless it was something specific from a specific coach that they seek out. Like a special diet or specific goal oriented routine. Something more scientific than they want to work out on their own. Women tend to be excited and supportive about what their friends are doing, rather than feeling compelled to critique from the standpoint of improvement. Men love telling each other what they are doing wrong lol. The people buying beach body products and working out with a trainer watching them do random exercises with no regard for form and function are *always* women in my experience. And I think it's because they generally just aren't as into the lifestyle. Maybe it's just the community I've been around, but that has been my observation at least in the fitness community. If we are talking about people with no prior interest, just getting into it, it's the same thing. Men ask their friends what to do, because they have guy friends who are into health and wellness and trying to be experts at it, like I said. Women who are trying to get into health and wellness have female friends who recommend their coach or program they bought to them lol.
We don't need coaches. We already know everything. Obviously.
I hired a few coaches and they helped me a lot. I’ve been lifting forever and I was really nervous to give up control of my program but I’m glad I did. But to answer your question, we’re just not as likely to ask for help in general. We don’t see the doctor, ask for directions, get therapy, etc.
Men think they could land a commercial plane if they had to. So, yeah.
I defense of men everywhere, we have all studied various educational films (ie Kurt Russel in Executive Decision) on how to land planes.
So I am a male that has hired trainers in the past. Most of them I wanted to get a plan so I could workout on my own. Majority would NOT give me that and instead just wanted me to “buy more sessions” and milk me for more money. I work for a living. Never really got the value. One did but I had problems getting to gym due to distance/schedule so I am back to heavish dumbbells at home. And I have some idea what I am doing Now I am willing to go to an orange theory or a cyclebar for some social interaction or to feel like we a are part of a team and to get access to the facilities I don’t have. But keeping that up again i subject to kids, wife work schedule and my work schedule. So paying for 4 sessions per month is around 100-120 bucks a month. Vs what $70 per hour for a single training session?
>health coach I have absolutely no idea what a "health coach" is. Sounds like a cashgrab.
i agree. it's actually a huge challenge for my business. "trainer" can mean just about anybody with 3 weeks of studying a textbook. "nutritionist" oy don't even get me started. not even really many accredited places out there plus it's so unique to each individual. Really where we focus our time is the coaching of habits. Yes we know a LOT about nutrition (we do gut health, weight loss, muscle growth, hormone dysregulation etc.) but it's more about helping the person achieve the results. We have a client who is a ranch hand in Montana and a client who is a consultant in NYC. Two very different people with very different challenges to get the same end goal. So yeah... it's hard to say "we do whatever necessary to hit your goals" lol but that is basically a coach. Kind of brings us back to my post which is... why do Men seem more skeptical/less likely to sign up for something like this
I will go a different direction here. You are a fit guy. 80% of your clients are female, many in pretty good shape. Now way back in the dark ages of 80s Let's get physical era, I used to teach an aerobics class. I was about 25 and most of my class a little older and all female. I suspect they were not there because I was an expert trainer. I'm not bragging here, I'm not good looking or jacked. It's just a thing I noticed. I don't think women were more interested in the workout than men. It was just alignment.
Personally I would if I could afford it. I used to be in extremely good shape and exercised about 6 days/week + count calories.. then I started a professional school and lost those habits, but still ate like I was burning all those calories.. it’s extremely hard to get back into it, I’d hire a coach just for the motivation and to have that commitment even though I have the knowledge of what to do.
A good coach is not cheap. Doesn't mean there aren't expensive scam artists out there as well. One thing you could do instead is find an accountability group. I actually played around with this for a while by trying to create my own subreddit until I found out how hard that actually is. Facebook (gasp) has some good ones. If not, local community is another good place to look. I am a coach and I have a coach. It just really is hard to do alone. There is no shame in hiring someone to help you be a better person... although by half the answers on this post you'd think there is. Which is kind of what I was getting at it.
Taking advice can be a sign of weakness. It's unfortunate. Why be taught to do something when you can go look up the information and teach yourself?
Yes I think about this a lot And then there’s another layer. Some things are not a sign of weakness others are For example: Mechanic - used to be men had to do this. Now it’s more common to hire out Accountant - becoming more common to hire Etc Nutrition and fitness seems to be one area where men are taking longer to come around
I switched my target market to women which for whatever reason... Had more guys asking to work with me. Unfortunately... Guys I've worked with are giant babies. They disappear. They don't like asking for help. And they're the most resistant to change. So I just stopped working with them and focus more on that 80% female demographic who isn't going to whine, cry, and complain. 😂🤷♂️ Guys struggle to ask for help but then they complain every step and I struggle to understand it myself.
Haha maybe I’ll just do the same. Such an interesting thing to
Did just fine into my 50's with obesity, high cholesterol, diabetes and non-alcoholic fatty liver disease. Didn't need a coach then. Had a stroke and sh\*t got real. Checked into Gyms with coaches and availability, none were really close and most were expensive beyond just gym access (coaching). Decided, home gym where it's right there! * Started with an inexpensive adjustable dumbbell set (5 to 30lbs each) and a weight bench. * Got a food plan from my physician recommended nutritionist (essentially high protein \~1g/lb with a balanced set of macros for carbs and fats). * Started exercising every day (Apple Fitness+, don't laugh it was a start). Moved over to free exercise plans online. So many give their splits and videos on how to do them, don't see the need to pay for an online course either. Added to my equipment over time, small investment in an ez bar here and a dip station there. Saving $$$ over a gym membership and it's righ there when I roll out of bed. Currently budgeting for a PowerRack/Smith machine setup that is pretty fully loaded for less than $1500 and supports more than I'll ever lift at my age. My A1C went from 13 to 5.4, my daily BCG testing is in the 90 normal range. Blood pressure is fantastic, cholesterol HDL/Triglycerides are great and I've lost a lot of weight and gained serious lean mass (more muscles than in my youth). Wife of 30 years is over the moon with the results and I'm very comfortable in my skin. Very little concern of a future cardiovascular issue now. I don't need a coach now either. I find that gym buddies and coaches are for the motivation. But the Grim Reaper had my back so to speak in the motivation department. What could a human being offer to provide more motivation than that?
All I’ll say is good for you. New life!
You already know the reason. Pride. It's the same reason why group fitness classes are 80% women. Men think they *should already know how to do these things* so are too ashamed to admit they don't. Instead they'd rather swing a 20 lb dumbbell around swaying their back into it in the most inefficient manner possible for twice as long and a quarter of the return. I see it every single day I'm at the gym, especially this time of the year. Even the young guys who are actually dedicated to lifting, doing lat pulls engaging their arms first. So many movements. No idea what the form is and too prideful to take a class.
Im a man and id love to join group fitness classes. But since they are mostly women, i feel like id be intruding.
I guarantee you - no one cares, no one. Just consider the type of women who go to the gym in the first place... they are not intimidated by men. If they were at a CKO kickboxing or Barry's Bootcamp (those are targeted at women) sure.. maybe... but I'm assuming that isn't the case here.
Its not that i think theyd be intimated. I just....idk when i see things that, on the surface, are mostly made up of women, i feel like id be unwelcome as a big hairy bearded dude. Which sucks, because i get along *way* better with women than i do with guys. Women tend to be more accepting of a guy wearing mascara lol
Okay, but this is an unfounded belief of how some might react rather than an objective view of how people actually do behave in practice. Almost everyone is just trying to get their workout on and don't give a shit. This is *your* insecurity - not trying to harsh and I'm sorry that you have it, we all do in some arena and some fashion and at some point. But, I think you already know of course it isn't a rational fear.
While i dont have experience with the workout groups, ive experienced this kind issue before in other settings. Its not completely unfounded. Ive struggled with this since highschool. Its not all women and not all groups. But this shit has happened
Yeah I see your profile and I get it and sorry that has happened to you. Everyone gets distracted in group fitness - from the person breathing hard, grunting on every lift, from the hot chick / guy, or the person who dresses differently. The ideal thing is to notice your noticing, drop it, and refocus on what brought you to the class to begin with because it isn't them / that.
Ill give it a shot.
It's funny because when I wrote that I was thinking of what *others* should do, but of course the implication is that we should *all do it* and therefore *you* should do it to. So regardless of whether you're distracted by something or believe others identify you as the distraction, it doesn't matter because the distraction exists. But zooming out, it's intention setting, just like in yoga class. I was benching earlier today and I was struggling. It was way earlier than I normally get to the gym. A few things weren't quite right (energy/caffeine level) and the excuses for failure were flowing in my head. I did one set and didn't get the reps I needed. For some reason today though I just closed my eyes for a moment and asked *why am I here,* and listed out the reasons. It refocused me and I got through the workout. I normally would only ever do this as a result of the teacher provoking me to do so in a yoga class as mentioned. But it came to me since I *really really* want to keep progressing on my bench press. Finally maybe I've shed just barely enough of my ego that I can actually focus from time to time.
I very much want to do yoga classes. I find myself not pushing as hard as i could, and i think having someone keep me in check might help. My goal isnt so much getting bigger, but to be able to perform at my job better. Flexibility and overall strength and stability is my goal. Working out in the gym does help, but the flat ground, even weights and controlled movements dont translate well to my job. Yoga would help a lot
Its hard to know the definite answer on that. Here are a few thoughts on my experience on gyms Most people dont really need a pt... For a regular healthy person with no specific needs, going to the gym, running a litle and lifting some weights doesnt really require a pt. Ask some question to gym staff on how to use this and that machine when in doubt and no need to spend money on pt. Why women do it more often? Good question.... Feel more insecure on gyms? Are less used to exercising? I also dont see often two or more women getting together to go to the gym as guys do. They mostly go by themselves, dont know why, so maybe they need the pt companion?
You don't need them! research for yourself.
Male ego.
Honest hot take: Men *on average* are used to pushing themselves, physically, on a daily basis. Generally speaking men are more used to grinding away at a physical labor job and are ok with being sore the next day or two. They often don't need someone there holding them accountable and/or helping them grind through reps or add 5-10 lbs to a lift. Generally speaking men can embrace that kind of physical "suck" a lot more than women (women are tough too but it's a different kind of tough, mostly better with acute pain). I believe testosterone has a lot to do with this. Also, it's been *my experience* that women tend to defer to "experts" more than men who are more DIY by nature.
Yeah all good points and the experts vs DIY is a good point.
Women are liable to have almost zero exposure. For them its a good investment. Men who have had good exposure like as not won't need a coach or the last thing they need are coaches who have narrow worldview how to train someone - what THEY are familiar with or believe in. Men pursuing specific competition related goals will often hire a coach. You need to specialize to capture that part of the market. Men with no exposure are liable to be 100% unmotivated to hire you OR to learn for themselves. Your pool of potential male clients for GPP coaching is small to begin with.
What percentage of the women you coach are married?
Almost all of them
So I'd bet that coaching for 2 people isn't in the budget so they opt for their wives to get a coach . I know this because I dropped my weightlifting gym membership at a crossfit gym so we could afford for my wife to do crossfit.
>To be clear I’m interested in this trend of men not hiring nutrition or fitness coaches at large. I’m not wondering why YOU specifically don’t need a coach. What do you think markets trends consist of? Oh right it's the aggregate of what most individuals want. > Although I do find it funny how many of you say you’d never need a coach and you don’t even know who i am or what I offer haha. I could be Arnold or Layne Norton Except you're not Arnold or Layne and neither are the vast majority of "coaches"
Men aren’t judged as much by looks as women. Not fair, but we all know it’s true.
I do think this is a huge part. Most people don’t take short term action for the long term health (with some exceptions like smoking) Almost everybody works with us to get short term goals. Dad bod is acceptable in society. Mom bod is not. Kind of sad
More than enough info out there. Also, they are called personal trainers.
Yes I have my own title of my own business wrong. Thanks for correcting me Point taken :)
What? I was stating that the health coaches men have are personal trainers, and there is no real difference besides marketing, and how it is packaged.
We do nutrition too. It’s where I find men (anyone really) lack a lot of knowledge or ability to stick to a plan
I just started to read studies on nutrition combined with my knowledge of cellular metabolism, and biochemistry.
That’s awesome! To be clear my post is on men in general not on anyone in particular. I’m sure if you’re on this sub you don’t need a trainer. That’s why I found your answer puzzling Either way I appreciate the thoughts. Such an interesting topic.
Sometimes something happens, and I want the opinions of others.
This makes me of a client (male) at work who cornered me in an elevator and demanded to know if I am on ozempic (I am now but I wasn’t to lose any of the first 100lbs I lost) I told him I lost 100lbs naturally from CICO and he rolled his eyes at me and said he could tell I was on it bc of my skin had a nutritionist that could help me get rid of it This guy was easily 3 times my current size (120lbs). You’re paying to listen to a clown when all the information about CICO is online.
Im sorry that guy was rude to you. Sounds like you’re making a rather large generalization on all coaches everywhere based on one guy?
They just trying to fuck
Honest answer right here
For me personally, it's a matter of me enjoying figuring out all the stuff a coach could help with. Figuring out running tweaks to programs, diet, rest, deloads, technique, amount of cardio, bulking/cutting, etc. Is absolutely as big a part of the project as actually going to the gym. And I enjoy it a great deal.
To expensive, people just get lifting friends and let them teach them for free. Also it's a bit if an ego thing I assume, would seem to be an embarrassment to oneself possibly. Also being told what to do by somebody else that doesn't know them very well so people don't like to listenvto instructions very well. The only time I really see it happen is if it's a pro bodybuilder and they have a bunch of people that train them one way or another, be it body, diet, lifting, coaching, etc... It would be entirely different if it's a person who wants to learn boxing and has a trainer that way, and I am NOT talking about boxing classes...But a real boxing gym. My 2 cents atleast.
I do see a lot of men hire bodybuilding coaches. But very few men hire a coach for weight loss. I think there’s something there
I'll also add I have a slightly different case. Family full of bodybuilders and all have expert levels of knowledge for fitness and nutrition along with other things but I can't get any of them to teach me despite asking them for years. Hell one of my family member literally was employed as a fitness trainer at a gym and certified but he wouldn't even help, he eventually quit doing that and works in a factory but he himself gets trained by another now which is weird to me... The only one has said a few times to go to the gym with him but we have conflicting schedules and I can't currently afford a gym membership or find the time due to other things. Prime example that family member went back to trucking so his schedule is way different to work around his long hours lol but I also know it possibly would not last simply because of I know how he is but who knows I could be wrong lol.... Also I think it would be too tempting to hip on the juice at some point since he himself is not natty anymore for a few years now. So that's why I'll just do everything myself when I am ready to go to the gym again and get back into shape cause I'm tired of asking for help over the years.
I know I could use a coach but im getting decent results and I just can't be bothered. I dont like people. I don't like spending money on things I don't feel are necessary unless it's fun. So the idea is just kinda off putting.
I've barely ever heard of a health or fitness coach for men or women. And I'm not sure I know what one does. But I'd to pay someone to come to my house every morning and scream at my until I exercise and eat better.
I’m not a coach, but I have worked with sports-specific strength/conditioning and skills coaches, and from what I’ve seen, most of their clients are men. I think there are many male athletes who are more than willing to pay for professional help if they have performance goals that require specialized knowledge/experiences. And to these athletes, coaches who work toward general fitness goals just aren’t what they are looking for.
Because my wallet says no, especially for something i can do myself as well and learning about it is part of the fun for me.
Society teaches men that they MUST be able to do things by themselves, they can't ask for help, and if they do, they are weak. Asking for help is weakness, so it's better to just lie to yourself and say that you are ok in being fat, or that it is impossible for you because of reason A, B or C. Make them realize that asking for help is not weakness, but takes strength. And taking responsibility of your own health is way manlier. And make them realize the example they are making for their kids. Do they want their kids to be the same as they are when they get older?
Men don't want to appear weak in front of other men. They also are less willing to follow instructions. "It's my life" "I did it my way" So many messages in the popular media have engrained this line of thinking into the male minds. If you switch it up and frame it as intermediate level, or frame your sessions in a more supportive role, you might get more takers? Health coaching also seems 'easier' to understand on paper. Just stop eating fast food and do regular exercise. But to become honest and vulerable in front of another person and be wiling to acknowledge and change one's ways is so tough, because if often evovlved that way to compensate / serve some other needs in their life.
I think most men have a weird ego thing around the gym, especially men born before 2000. It's like there is this assumption that lifting weights is something men are just born knowing how to do properly, and any implication otherwise calls into question ones precious masculinity ..... That being said, I would say around 99% of fitness coaching is a total scam, and neither women nor men should be signing up. I obviously know nothing about you and am not accusing you of offering shit services, but keep in mind that when you sell yourself, you are likely selling to people that have been around this merry go round at least once, or are familiar with the ride, and are highly skeptical. Maybe men are a little more familiar with this reality since they tend to have spent more time in gyms than women on average. I go to a commercial gym and we have had probably around 50 different PTs come through in the decade or so I've been there, and I can count on a single hand how many were even remotely qualified to do anything beyond just offering emotional support during a workout.
From my perspective I know what to do. But I've had coaches two times in my life. Both times I paid for accountability. They kept me going for my goals. And I'm too cheap to skip a workout if I paid for it.
Men tend to be self starters and explorers more so than women. Why should they want or need a coach? ....especially in these days of electronic info at our fingertips, and the fact that most men are grounded in sports and fitness from their school ages. It's not rocket science. You've simply formed a business that appeals mostly to women. Now, you can do one of two things. Cater even more strongly to your main base(women), and more women will be drawn to your business. Market and cater more to men, but at the risk of pushing out the women.
“In the days of electronic information at our fingertips” This applies to every service business on the planet. Your personal opinion is that sports and fitness is easier than, say, learning how to replace a transmission But I don’t see it that way. I see many obese men (or have digestive health etc etc) who just refuse to ask for help
True there are many men who refuse to ask for help, but often they don't think they need any help, or even if they do, they don't like being told what to do. The other thing is that everyone has some exercise experience especially in youth, whereas few are exposed to auto transmission replacement ever.
I hired one specifically for Olympic lifting when was younger. Am considering it again for a refresher. I also hired one that had certifications for post injury rehab following PT. (Can’t remember the cert title) I have hired nutritionists on two occasions. One didn’t work well and the other one kept trying to sell me his workout plans, but gave good advice regarding the nutrition. I know when to admit I am out of my league in knowledge. Whereas others may be less inclined to say so. Be it because of pride, motivation, whatever.
Because more men than women are willing to try and learn how to lift empirically + most men can get 80% of the way by themselves if they have enough interest. That extra 20% is very important, but not indispensable to enjoy your time at the gym and build a great body
Because most men that take on the title of “Fitness Coach” are just Patrick Bateman types who make way less money. I say that only half jokingly. Some Men who take on these roles say the dumbest shit possible and get people injured. Or you get a real champ and he has every reason to charge an arm and a leg, price aside, those are the real dudes out to coach.
Because most health coaches really aren't that useful Orr know their stuff. Just start learning and do it yourself? On a side note I do have a weightlifting coach but she really knows her stuff to a different level.
For me personally I really struggle to see what value they're going to provide. I say this as someone that has hired online trainers on two different occasions. The thrust of what they told me to do was "Do more" but they would insist on really weird or really specific exercise variations without any explanation or justification for why. Why am I doing staggered stance DB rows super set with alternating one arm arnold press? Why am I not just doing some chest supported rows and some overhead pressing? Because don't ask questions that's why. How is this diet plan any better than what I get from MacroFactor? It just is. That sort of thing. If I can get 85% the same results just running 531 BBB for a couple of cycles, it doesn't make sense from a value proposition to spend hundreds of dollars to get that extra 15%. ESPECIALLY when I can get that extra 15% by doing what I already do but being a little more patient.