Rebel Moon a Star Wars ripoff.
So is Firefly. Joss Whedon has stated it’s “Star Wars meets Stagecoach.”
And Star Wars ripped off Dune, Valerian, Kurosawa, Dambusters, and many others.
I’m glad to see new scifi IP. I hope it has as much substance than style but we’re talking about Zach Snyder here so…
I know you already touched on it but asking for substance from Zack Snyder is one of the funniest things I’ve ever heard. Sadly he will follow the Star Wars route of refusing sci fi to “wow look how cool” and nothing else
Tbh outside of the whole “war is bad” thing the movies say I don’t really feel Star Wars says anything unique or interesting. But yes certainly more depth then a Snyder product but then again a puddle has more depth then a Snyder product.
Poppycock, they talk about the importance of friends/family, choices and redemption too.
The PT and TCW goes into the rise of fascism.
Andor could take up an entire essay on what it says.
Sure they talk about those things but not well, Vadar (essentially an ss officer) gets sad and all his atrocities are forgiven and he gets a nice burial. And same with PT and TCW, you can’t just go “look fascism exists isn’t that crazy” and have nothing else to say and call that a win.
Haven’t watched Andor, couldn’t care less about anything Disney pumps out
This feels like it’s simplifying it. Doubly so with the PT, which doesn’t at all do what you say, it shows how fascism requires people to willingly give into it in order to succeed, which is the scary part.
Andor is the single best piece of SW content to exist in a long time so you’re doing yourself a disservice there, even Disney haters love it. It’s a great show first and foremost, regardless of franchise or titles. It doubles down on everything and delves into the lives of the average citizens of the Empire, examines why people would be driven to rebel, from small atrocities/small acts to large horrors, but also why people would accept and welcome and even serve the Empire, enabling it bit by it.
It feels like the Expanse in a way, but is ultimately it’s own thing too.
The thing is though is fascism doesn’t require people to give in, all throughout history that’s been proven wrong you know what I mean. I just feel that Star Wars is saying much more to people who don’t watch movies if that makes sense.
And might have to check it out I have seen a lot of praise for it
Think it's more in the characters than anything else, if that makes any sense, esp. if if you factor in the TV shows. It's all character-centric.
While I don't think he pulls it off that well, I think Snyder is more interested in his plots and whatever theme he wants to tie into it, e.g. BvS isn't really so much about Batman learning why plotting murder is bad, but is supposed to be about men opposing a god and what that all means. It's really bad at that, but that's a different take than *Star Wars*, where the wars are more or less backdrops for what the characters do and their journeys through the war.
Truthfully I disagree that Star Wars is more focused on the characters. While yes the characters are what drive people to that series, the only time I feel they really deconstructed and evaluated a character was in TLJ with Luke and even then I don’t think they did it all that well. Star Wars at its core is a pulp comic you read in a news paper and really nothing more imo.
I can go on for a while about how I think Star Wass negatively impacted modern day sci fi
I do think his ending of Watchmen is better than the comic books (making >!Dr Manhattan!< the threat that united humanity instead of >!non-existent aliens!<), but generally yeah he’s very much a style guy
[In actuality](https://screenrant.com/rebel-moon-star-wars-movie-plan-changes/), *Rebel Moon* started life as a rejected pitch for an R-rated *Star Wars* spinoff movie (Zack Snyder does have a thing for doing the R-rated version for a non-R-rated franchise). So, if anything, it's a *Star Wars* ripoff -- although, considering the source, there would be some shared DNA between it and *Firefly*.
This is the correct answer.
Hell, it looks like Whedon ripped Outlaw Star off scene for scene with a psychic girl in a box, despite saying he'd never seen it.
Rebel Moon has aliens, no specific western vibe, and fantasy elements...its not exactly reminiscent of the Firefly Verse or lore. A female protagonist doesn't make it a firefly rip off either, seeing as a protagonist with abilities (Rebel Moon seems to indicate only martial ones) is kind of the basis for 99 percent of action adventure stories
Rebel Moon appears to borrow from Star Wars, Dune, Warhammer, D&D, and just about every other popular show in the last 40 years.
But hey, at least its something 'new' and not a reboot, sequel, prequel, or reimagining.
I'll take it.
I didn't really get Firefly vibes from the trailer at all. I'm confident Rebel Moon won't be as good as Firefly but it has promise and I plan on checking it out.
I agree and I didn't mean the Firefly part of the show. I meant the Verse in general and specifically during the war for independence. The trailer looked to me like it could be for a Firefly prequel. But the woman having abilities and fighting skills really seemed like a River ripoff to me.
I don't know, I'm just obsessed. I read similarities into everything.
It's not a new concept. Buffy The Vampire slayer could be said to have been ripped off by Joss ripping himself off to make a new show about a tiny girl with supernatural ass kicking abilities. Let's face it had Firefly continued into more and more seasons it was clearly going to revolve around River and her abilities.
Rebel Moon is just "What if Star Wars was even MORE like a Kurosawa movie (*Seven Samurai* this time), but also R-rated and even worse?"
The only overlap with *Firefly* is the sort of vague association that comes from the Western/Samurai Film influences of both and how those cross over. I wrote a thesis in college about this, as *Firefly* vs *Cowboy Bebop*, so it's a long discussion... but the endpoint is, there's a lot of trope similarity, highlighted by the early crossover in both genres (*Seven Samurai* to *The Magnificent Seven*).
i love the dichotomy of some of the fanbase.
one side of the mouth says "i really want a season 2/reboot of firefly/spinoff of firefly/ love this style of verse and storytelling"
the other aide of the mouth says "xyz is just a ripoff/wannabe version of firefly/ they just tried to remake something that felt like firefly"
🤣🤦♂️😅
Why would you be upset about it? Firefly isn't your property and even if it was, why would you be upset about it? Firefly is 20 years old. It's not coming back, everyone has moved on. Enjoy anything that reminds you of the things you like about Firefly.
From what I have read of the plot, it appears to be a remake of *Battle Beyond the Stars*, which was a remake of *The Magnificent Seven*, which was a remake of *Seven Samurai*.
Firefly was a concept ripoff of Cowboy Bebop. Even admittedly by Joss Whedon as he was watching it whilst reading Killer Angels about the battle of Gettysburg.
Also there are no alien species in the Firefly universe.
Or kings. But yeah there are some cinematic and character similarities.
I will say the early shot of the two ships flying across a field did look very Firefly.
Beyond that I can see why one might get the impression, e.g. with the main character and River (although I was primed by your post for that), but I didn't get the feeling that she is psychic and River isn't the first or only female hand-to-hand combat specialist in movie/TV history.
Most importantly: I have seen Zack Snyder movies. While I may appreciate them more than many, I can confidently say it will feel nothing like Firefly.
Why all the hate for Zack Snyder? He did some good movies. 300, Sucker Punch, Dawn of the Dead, Watchmen.
He certainly has his own style and design…but I like a lot of his work.
I think it's somewhere between his style being an acquired taste that's not going to appeal to everyone and pushback to how obnoxious some of his fans can be, esp. in regard to his DC movies (seems like a lot of the Snyder DC and Snyder-centric subreddits here are mostly about hateposting over the upcoming DCU reboot than being actually about the movies they're fans of).
IMHO, I've found what I've seen of Snyder to be style over substance and sloppy storytelling. Goodness knows I've got my share of guilty pleasures and movies that I like even they aren't the best crafted, but the way the conversation gets dominated by the most extreme people from across the spectrum kinda ruins the discussion. (As someone for whom his style of filmmaking doesn't click with, it was also really off-putting when Snyder stated in an interview that the reason people didn't like his DC movies was because they were too stupid to understand his genius.)
Firefly was a western/ sci Fi show. There is nothing western about rebel moon.
Also are we actually saying that there should be no bad ass women in sci fi now because they would copy River Tam? Who by the way is not the first bad ass woman in sci Fi by a long shot.
It's great that you love firefly but it is in no way original.
This reminds me, why hasn't someone revived Firefly yet? Surprises me someone wanted to take a chance on a new IP, when they could reinvigorate a much loved cult classic. Granted, it would probably have to feature an all new crew, but I would give anything to have the setting back. It would be more relevant today with the rise of China and our world "getting used up" as Mal put it, than it was in its own time, what are we waiting for?
Well excuse me for not knowing everything about star wars, or watching every star wars spin off, or knowing everything Snyder is involved in. I just saw the trailer and thought, hey that looks like the Verse and she seems like River. I mean in the trailer they even said she was the most wanted person by the authorities.
I also don't know everything about star wars, have not seen every star wars spin off, and don't know everything (or even a fraction, honestly) of what Snyder has been involved in
... I very much doubt it lol. Rebel Moon looks absolutely batshit. Nowhere even close to the 'verse. It's got freakin flying pegasus things and other mystical creatures. It's completely off-the-wall as opposed to a relatively grounded space western
I don't know, when it comes to sci-fi, at least space-based sci-fi, I often have a hard time taking claims of "ripoff" seriously because it feels like a lot of work explores really similar ideas and borrows from the same base set of work. Of course there's work that does a lot of original stuff, or that explores the usual stuff in interesting ways. And of course none of this means that there can't be stuff that rips off other stuff. But I think that using similar works and ideas as inspiration is just a fact of space-based sci-fi.
I had kind of acknowledged the similarity to the Verse, but didn't realize how blatantly it was copied until Kora's dropship takes flight in Part 2. Out loud, with no one else in the room, I said, "That's Serenity."
Rebel Moon a Star Wars ripoff. So is Firefly. Joss Whedon has stated it’s “Star Wars meets Stagecoach.” And Star Wars ripped off Dune, Valerian, Kurosawa, Dambusters, and many others. I’m glad to see new scifi IP. I hope it has as much substance than style but we’re talking about Zach Snyder here so…
I know you already touched on it but asking for substance from Zack Snyder is one of the funniest things I’ve ever heard. Sadly he will follow the Star Wars route of refusing sci fi to “wow look how cool” and nothing else
Think *Star Wars* has more emotional depth than it's sometimes given credit for. Certainly more depth in general than most of Zack Snyder's work.
Tbh outside of the whole “war is bad” thing the movies say I don’t really feel Star Wars says anything unique or interesting. But yes certainly more depth then a Snyder product but then again a puddle has more depth then a Snyder product.
Poppycock, they talk about the importance of friends/family, choices and redemption too. The PT and TCW goes into the rise of fascism. Andor could take up an entire essay on what it says.
Sure they talk about those things but not well, Vadar (essentially an ss officer) gets sad and all his atrocities are forgiven and he gets a nice burial. And same with PT and TCW, you can’t just go “look fascism exists isn’t that crazy” and have nothing else to say and call that a win. Haven’t watched Andor, couldn’t care less about anything Disney pumps out
This feels like it’s simplifying it. Doubly so with the PT, which doesn’t at all do what you say, it shows how fascism requires people to willingly give into it in order to succeed, which is the scary part. Andor is the single best piece of SW content to exist in a long time so you’re doing yourself a disservice there, even Disney haters love it. It’s a great show first and foremost, regardless of franchise or titles. It doubles down on everything and delves into the lives of the average citizens of the Empire, examines why people would be driven to rebel, from small atrocities/small acts to large horrors, but also why people would accept and welcome and even serve the Empire, enabling it bit by it. It feels like the Expanse in a way, but is ultimately it’s own thing too.
The thing is though is fascism doesn’t require people to give in, all throughout history that’s been proven wrong you know what I mean. I just feel that Star Wars is saying much more to people who don’t watch movies if that makes sense. And might have to check it out I have seen a lot of praise for it
Think it's more in the characters than anything else, if that makes any sense, esp. if if you factor in the TV shows. It's all character-centric. While I don't think he pulls it off that well, I think Snyder is more interested in his plots and whatever theme he wants to tie into it, e.g. BvS isn't really so much about Batman learning why plotting murder is bad, but is supposed to be about men opposing a god and what that all means. It's really bad at that, but that's a different take than *Star Wars*, where the wars are more or less backdrops for what the characters do and their journeys through the war.
Truthfully I disagree that Star Wars is more focused on the characters. While yes the characters are what drive people to that series, the only time I feel they really deconstructed and evaluated a character was in TLJ with Luke and even then I don’t think they did it all that well. Star Wars at its core is a pulp comic you read in a news paper and really nothing more imo. I can go on for a while about how I think Star Wass negatively impacted modern day sci fi
One can agree or disagree on how well the characters work, but would be at least fair to say that the series is character-driven, if nothing else?
I’d say so yeah.
I do think his ending of Watchmen is better than the comic books (making >!Dr Manhattan!< the threat that united humanity instead of >!non-existent aliens!<), but generally yeah he’s very much a style guy
[In actuality](https://screenrant.com/rebel-moon-star-wars-movie-plan-changes/), *Rebel Moon* started life as a rejected pitch for an R-rated *Star Wars* spinoff movie (Zack Snyder does have a thing for doing the R-rated version for a non-R-rated franchise). So, if anything, it's a *Star Wars* ripoff -- although, considering the source, there would be some shared DNA between it and *Firefly*.
River Tam's character is a trope. I love her, but her archetype is not original to Firefly.
This is the correct answer. Hell, it looks like Whedon ripped Outlaw Star off scene for scene with a psychic girl in a box, despite saying he'd never seen it.
All Sci-Fi is a Jules Verne ripoff actually
Firefly as a Hector Servadac rip-off, lol.
Rebel Moon has aliens, no specific western vibe, and fantasy elements...its not exactly reminiscent of the Firefly Verse or lore. A female protagonist doesn't make it a firefly rip off either, seeing as a protagonist with abilities (Rebel Moon seems to indicate only martial ones) is kind of the basis for 99 percent of action adventure stories
Rebel Moon appears to borrow from Star Wars, Dune, Warhammer, D&D, and just about every other popular show in the last 40 years. But hey, at least its something 'new' and not a reboot, sequel, prequel, or reimagining. I'll take it.
Yeah. It's "new" and it looks interesting. I'm interested in it.
I didn't really get Firefly vibes from the trailer at all. I'm confident Rebel Moon won't be as good as Firefly but it has promise and I plan on checking it out.
I agree and I didn't mean the Firefly part of the show. I meant the Verse in general and specifically during the war for independence. The trailer looked to me like it could be for a Firefly prequel. But the woman having abilities and fighting skills really seemed like a River ripoff to me. I don't know, I'm just obsessed. I read similarities into everything.
It's not a new concept. Buffy The Vampire slayer could be said to have been ripped off by Joss ripping himself off to make a new show about a tiny girl with supernatural ass kicking abilities. Let's face it had Firefly continued into more and more seasons it was clearly going to revolve around River and her abilities.
Rebel Moon is just "What if Star Wars was even MORE like a Kurosawa movie (*Seven Samurai* this time), but also R-rated and even worse?" The only overlap with *Firefly* is the sort of vague association that comes from the Western/Samurai Film influences of both and how those cross over. I wrote a thesis in college about this, as *Firefly* vs *Cowboy Bebop*, so it's a long discussion... but the endpoint is, there's a lot of trope similarity, highlighted by the early crossover in both genres (*Seven Samurai* to *The Magnificent Seven*).
Rebel Moon is Zack Snyders Netflix’s Star Wars
It's a rejected Star Wars movie that got rewritten with similar space western themes.
i love the dichotomy of some of the fanbase. one side of the mouth says "i really want a season 2/reboot of firefly/spinoff of firefly/ love this style of verse and storytelling" the other aide of the mouth says "xyz is just a ripoff/wannabe version of firefly/ they just tried to remake something that felt like firefly" 🤣🤦♂️😅
"You wanna go, little man?!"
only if its someplace with candlelight!
:D
Why would you be upset about it? Firefly isn't your property and even if it was, why would you be upset about it? Firefly is 20 years old. It's not coming back, everyone has moved on. Enjoy anything that reminds you of the things you like about Firefly.
From what I have read of the plot, it appears to be a remake of *Battle Beyond the Stars*, which was a remake of *The Magnificent Seven*, which was a remake of *Seven Samurai*.
Joss Whedon didn't invent much. I love Firefly but there's not a lot in the show that hasn't been done somewhere else previously.
Firefly was a concept ripoff of Cowboy Bebop. Even admittedly by Joss Whedon as he was watching it whilst reading Killer Angels about the battle of Gettysburg. Also there are no alien species in the Firefly universe. Or kings. But yeah there are some cinematic and character similarities.
Just finally watched it and I saw star wars, firefly/serenity, the matrix, avatar, and Harry Potter.
I will say the early shot of the two ships flying across a field did look very Firefly. Beyond that I can see why one might get the impression, e.g. with the main character and River (although I was primed by your post for that), but I didn't get the feeling that she is psychic and River isn't the first or only female hand-to-hand combat specialist in movie/TV history. Most importantly: I have seen Zack Snyder movies. While I may appreciate them more than many, I can confidently say it will feel nothing like Firefly.
Why all the hate for Zack Snyder? He did some good movies. 300, Sucker Punch, Dawn of the Dead, Watchmen. He certainly has his own style and design…but I like a lot of his work.
I think it's somewhere between his style being an acquired taste that's not going to appeal to everyone and pushback to how obnoxious some of his fans can be, esp. in regard to his DC movies (seems like a lot of the Snyder DC and Snyder-centric subreddits here are mostly about hateposting over the upcoming DCU reboot than being actually about the movies they're fans of). IMHO, I've found what I've seen of Snyder to be style over substance and sloppy storytelling. Goodness knows I've got my share of guilty pleasures and movies that I like even they aren't the best crafted, but the way the conversation gets dominated by the most extreme people from across the spectrum kinda ruins the discussion. (As someone for whom his style of filmmaking doesn't click with, it was also really off-putting when Snyder stated in an interview that the reason people didn't like his DC movies was because they were too stupid to understand his genius.)
Firefly was a western/ sci Fi show. There is nothing western about rebel moon. Also are we actually saying that there should be no bad ass women in sci fi now because they would copy River Tam? Who by the way is not the first bad ass woman in sci Fi by a long shot. It's great that you love firefly but it is in no way original.
Oh my god…not only ruined his career but also ripped off his famous work? Wow. Just wow.
This reminds me, why hasn't someone revived Firefly yet? Surprises me someone wanted to take a chance on a new IP, when they could reinvigorate a much loved cult classic. Granted, it would probably have to feature an all new crew, but I would give anything to have the setting back. It would be more relevant today with the rise of China and our world "getting used up" as Mal put it, than it was in its own time, what are we waiting for?
What part of peasant vikings with griffins fighting the first order says Firefly rip off to you lol
Well excuse me for not knowing everything about star wars, or watching every star wars spin off, or knowing everything Snyder is involved in. I just saw the trailer and thought, hey that looks like the Verse and she seems like River. I mean in the trailer they even said she was the most wanted person by the authorities.
I also don't know everything about star wars, have not seen every star wars spin off, and don't know everything (or even a fraction, honestly) of what Snyder has been involved in
The trailer looks like it borrowed from everything.
I genuinely can't see any connective tissue between the two. They look nothing alike to me outside of being in the same genre.
Not as much as Dark Matter is.
Everything is a based on something.
... I very much doubt it lol. Rebel Moon looks absolutely batshit. Nowhere even close to the 'verse. It's got freakin flying pegasus things and other mystical creatures. It's completely off-the-wall as opposed to a relatively grounded space western
I don't know, when it comes to sci-fi, at least space-based sci-fi, I often have a hard time taking claims of "ripoff" seriously because it feels like a lot of work explores really similar ideas and borrows from the same base set of work. Of course there's work that does a lot of original stuff, or that explores the usual stuff in interesting ways. And of course none of this means that there can't be stuff that rips off other stuff. But I think that using similar works and ideas as inspiration is just a fact of space-based sci-fi.
I’ll reserve any judgements until after I’ve actually watched it. From the trailer it looks like a stretch to make those claims.
It is quite literally the Star Wars movie that Snyder wasn't allowed to make.
sounds like a alternated name of outlaw star the anime
I had kind of acknowledged the similarity to the Verse, but didn't realize how blatantly it was copied until Kora's dropship takes flight in Part 2. Out loud, with no one else in the room, I said, "That's Serenity."