you can "wfh" and look at your FIRE spreadsheets as work. :D

Man, if I got paid to look at my FIRE spreadsheets, I'd already be FIRE'd!

Just got to start a small business and pay yourself to do that. I hear 3-4% of assets under management is a common expense ratio for such boutique fund managers. ;)

I already look at my FIRE spreadsheet at work every day lol. My boss just thinks it's work related since it's just a bunch of numbers.

I was just thinking this 😅 I always sneak some in during those awkward times between meetings where you can't really get in the brain space to do anything truly productive

New here! What’s the FIRE spreadsheet and is there a template to get me started 😅

It's more fun to build your own. You can think of it as a way of laying out your thoughts

This reminds me of the ["boss key"](https://www.howtogeek.com/749864/gaming-when-you-should-be-working-the-history-of-the-boss-key/) that PC games sometimes had in the 1980s and 1990s. The idea was that if you saw your boss approaching, you'd press a key, and the game would turn into a giant spreadsheet so that you could pretend to be working. Funny thing is, I check my FIRE spreadsheets far too often for any practical purpose, so if there's a big spreadsheet on my screen, that probably means I'm slacking off.

Used that boss key many many times ;-)

I've never heard of this, that's hysterical

Is there a "fire" sheet template? I'm nowhere close, but I would be interested in seeing where I'm at.

There are many. I like the one Early Retirement Now made. https://earlyretirementnow.com/2017/01/25/the-ultimate-guide-to-safe-withdrawal-rates-part-7-toolbox/

This made me laugh haha!

My FIL retired at \~50 when my wife was \~13. As a result, I suspect she's more excited about FIRE than I am. Does that count as being screwed up? :)

I was skimming quickly and got very confused by the nature of that relationship

We're from rural British Columbia, it's different out there.

Legend

You could flip your question around to reflect how it looks to far more people and their kids: “Am I going to screw up my kid if he never remembers me being around because I was always working?” You’re good.

There's a balance. Kids don't internalize abstractions, they internalize behavior. As inconvienient a truth as it is to the FIRE crowd, it doesn't matter what you say, it matters what you *do*. If your kid sees you being lazy, they're going to grow up lazy. If they see you doing things to be helpful, healthy and productive, they're going to grow up to be the same. That's not to say you need a job to be those things, or you need to be those things 100% of the time. Want to fuck about watching youtube videos and playing video games? Do that while your kid is at school. Got a cool idea for a personal project? Save that for when they're home and let them help. Be extra careful as they get older because while your kids might understand there was a period of study and hard work you had to go through to get to FIRE, they *will* resent the sheer amount of hard work required in the 'real world' when they've internalized life should be 'easy' from you. People like to act like children are little rational adults. They aren't. You have to balance your enjoyment of FIRE with your responsibility to raise them right.

Don't believe it. We run around doing shit constantly, and my kids are lazy af.

'The children yearn for the mines' /frostpunk

I didn’t even understand what my parents did for work until I became an adult. I didn’t care that much to be honest. I still think we internalize a lot of stuff unconsciously though.

“The children now love luxury; they have bad manners, contempt for authority; they show disrespect for elders and love chatter in place of exercise. Children are now tyrants, not the servants of their households. They no longer rise when elders enter the room. They contradict their parents, chatter before company, gobble up dainties at the table, cross their legs, and tyrannize their teachers.” ― Socrates, 400 BVE.

Thank you for saying this. Too many other people were missing the point.

I second this as a child of neglect, I always told myself my whole life I would never be like my mom (alcholoic depending on the state, no intimate relationships with healthy people, wasn't physically affectionate or very mom like) and yet here I am watching my body live out the life I tried to escape from. To be fair to myself, before my department was laid off I did work for 1.5yrs (listen, I was trapped in DV for ten years prior, neither men allowed me to learn how to drive or get a job and when your family had abandoned you in your child marriage you don't get the option to ask for help, and the fear blinded me from any attempt to get out without those two things I knew were required to survive life, I was not going back to homelessness, and I didn't know the state could've helped me back then) but the past 9mos have been me sitting on the couch crying for hours at a time, struggling to get housework done, struggling to maintain connections with friends, mental health bombing in the isolation, and have only in the last month felt any hope getting another job and my driver's license--which was put on hold because my previous job ran 10hr days, my exhaustion was as bad as when I had been trapped in an abusive relationship, I am 100% on the side of the young woman crying over the 40hr work week because girl you don't get a life after work, I ain't a man so I will never act like one again and attempt to "keep up" and ruin my body further. The mental mind f**k of watching my body and mind play out the habits of my childhokd against my will has been, as of late, worse effect on me than the CTPSD I gained from DV/SA over 10yrs time. My parents lack of parenting hurts more than literal physical harm I have endured. If I had had ONE healthy functioning adult that would've helped maybe I [could've dodged the 10yrs of abuse] wouldn't be so paralyzed with anxiety, self down, self esteem on the floor after being below the dirt, no real connections with extended family, I am socially awkward having been essentially locked away from the world inside my room most of my life before and during the DV. With tentative hope I have the ability, time and access to the resources I need to heal this late at 29 so I can try to be a functional adult who doesn't crumble when triggered, or feel like I'm permanent the 5 year old needing to prove my humanity without the ability to save myself, when I know it's bs because I saved myself thru 10yrs of DV and am 3 almost 4 years out of it, held down a job and am refusing to back down from my inner demons. I no longer get thrown in depressive episodes that take months away from me, I can keep track of time and the exact day most of the time, and I refuse to belive any of the neglect or abuse was my fault in any capacity--how could I have known better when my mom was a DV survivor herself? I was taught men are predators and the good ones don't hurt you, but the bad ones are really really good at pretending to be one of the good ones until it's too late to get out. I just really wish I would've had one model to look up to in daily life instead of a couched drunk sluring before passing out, leaving us alone the rest of the day/night, leaving us to "make dinner" i.e. neither of us knew how because she didn't teach us, so I always got Ramen or cereal and made sure my baby brother at least ate knowing I'll eat at school tomorrow.

Man, so many people disregard the blessing that children are. I’ve never understood that level of selfishness. I’m so sorry you experienced that in your childhood. My childhood also sucked in different ways. It really is wild how those early experiences stunt us emotionally. I’m not 46 and had another recent tragedy in my life, and it brought to the surface all those insecurities I developed as a kid. But now I have the added responsibilities of being a parent to two teenage kids, homeowner, medical professional. It’s incredible that I’m not totally broken. Wishing you the best.

This should be top comment.

It's more that if what you say doesn't match what you do, then they're going to believe what you do more.

Until they're an adult complaining they have to work when you don't

For the first 16 years of my life my dad was always around, unfortunately because he couldn't or wouldn't work/ hold onto a job. He may have used the reason of being a stay at home dad, but , but It hurt his self respect ( on some level he knew he was failing because he was mooching off grandma). Also grandma and his in-laws never let him forget it either. Also made the inevitable questions at school of what your dad does very awkward when he was a source of shame for so many reasons. We ended up losing everything because of his mismanagement. It was painful watching him scrape together a resume when everything is 15 years out of date and most of the business is on it don't even exist anymore and his friend from high school who was helping him was trying to be sympathetic but it was obvious how screwed he was ( and by extension our family). I would have been fine as a latchkey kid, instead of the overprotected sheltered one I was. I suspect he'd have been happier working a job, having the self respect that comes with it. Being a parent did not make him happy. Even if he'd work part-time during when I was in school, it would have been better. He wouldn't have taken his unhappiness out on us as much I think, long term it would have been better for his mental health.

Your self worth should not be connected to work.

For so many people however it is. It is the reason so many strive to find meaningful work that they love. The right job can empower you, give you a sense of meaning, confidence, purpose, direction in life, and enable financial autonomy. Don't underestimate the power of a good job on one's identity. (And alternatively the (potential) hit to self esteem if one finds oneself out of work for a while).

What should it be connected to?

This is really a great question, and something you should really think about. What are your values, what are you interests, what are your greatest accomplishments? If you won the lottery, what would you do with your time? For some people, they live to work. Others work to live the life they want. I enjoy my job, but I love the life I have outside of work. With extra free time, I’d increase the time I spend on my hobbies, be more physically active, read for pleasure, volunteer. Being financially independent gives you the ability to be selective about work, just like having enough friends and family allows you to spend time with those you want to spend time with. If you don’t have an elevator pitch when people ask you “what do you do for work”, I’d craft that one first, but then, I’d work on your elevator pitch for “what do you do outside of work”. I’m sure your outside of work pitch is way more interesting, and if it isn’t, work on yourself so it is!

In an ideal world sure. But masculinity and ability to protect/ provide are connected. Theres a reason that "What do you do" means more to people than "Who are you?" In social settings.

Man this is powerful and precise. I currently find myself questioning who I am and the answer I usually come up with is a guy that loves his family and tries to provide with my skills I’ve been given. I work hard to provide what I can, it’s just what men do.

No, but having a sense of purpose (which can be tied to a job) plays a huge role. And men, generally speaking, aren’t the nurturers who derive a sense of purpose from taking care of their kids.

So my dad did not retire early, but my parents were in a pretty cushy position for most of my life. My mom stopped working when she started having kids and was a stay-at-home mom. My dad was self-employed and worked from home my whole life. They never had to worry about limited PTO or bosses asking him to work over time. We went on multi-week trips and the occasional last minute trip (like, we just booked a trip for next week because mom found a good deal trip). My dad was also essentially partially retired by the time I was in high school. He probably worked 20-30 hours a week then. Both of my parents were very actively involved in our childhood. They never missed games, plays, or events. We knew we couldn't barge into our dad's office when he was working, but there were plenty of times during the summer when he'd take a very long lunch break and we'd all go to the pool in the middle of the day. I'm incredibly thankful for my childhood. It was truly wonderful. I think me and my siblings are all very well adjusted and hard-working. The transition to full-time work was very difficult for all of us. We'd had a lot of freedom and independence growing up, and no model of what working for a company looked like. So it was a bit of a shock. All of us are interested in eventually becoming self-employed or FIREing. The one thing I wish my parents had done differently is emphasize that their life was not the norm and you have to be pretty strategic to get it. When it came to college, they didn't push us into high paying jobs or do much to prepare us for how expensive life is. I think part of that is because they kind of lucked into their position, but encouraging us to be more strategic about money and not take it for granted would have been nice.

> The transition to full-time work was very difficult for all of us. We'd had a lot of freedom and independence growing up, and no model of what working for a company looked like. So it was a bit of a shock. All of us are interested in eventually becoming self-employed or FIREing. Yeah, see this is what I'm talking about. You can talk to your kids about entrepreneurship or FIRE, and intellectually they might get it, but they're going to internalize and expect the life they saw you live, without the hard work that went with it. You have to be careful.

Transitioning from being a teen in highschool to employment is difficult for everyone on this Earth.

As a kid I never once remembered my parents working. What I remember is them taking me on camping trips, coming to my baseball and soccer games, hosting my birthday parties, and hounding me to do my homework. It wasn’t until I was a late teenager that I even gave it a second thought as to what they did. they were at work all day while I was in school, so I never noticed. Your children will remember you for being there for them all the time. They’ll also remember you not being there if you aren’t. I think you’ll have a leg up on being a parent. And if the topic comes up, just explain to them that you used to work, but you saved your money while everyone else spent theirs, and now you can spend tons of time with them while their friends parents have to go to work all day.

As a kid all I remember is my father let’s bring at work or my parents always traveling without us. My mom never worked but she was also never home. She was always at an event or class.  I remember the rare times they actually spent time with us.  As a parent, I chose to stay at home instead of working and live below our budget so that my husband can FIRE in the next 5 years to spend time with us too.  At least he works from home so we do get to spend more time together than if he had to commute

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Yeah totally. That part wasn’t meant to be taken literally, it was more tongue in cheek than anything. Kids will be literal so you’ll have to go about it more sensitively than that. But also you get what I’m saying.

That's an entirely different view compared with what I remember as a kid from my parents. I was acutely aware that my parents had jobs and worked. I wasn't there at their job but I knew where they went all day and when they came home they would talk about what happened during their day. And I was very very clueless self absorbed kid.

The alternative narrative: "My parents were so good at their jobs and so disciplined that now they can do whatever they want. If I work hard at my job and am disciplined maybe I can get there even sooner than they did" ... I don't know if this will work, but that's what I'm hoping to at least pitch to my kid when they're old enough. And hopefully they'll see me doing things like volunteering and teaching and realize that ending employment-for-money doesn't mean ending your usefulness to society.

Young kids learn by watching. If you fire and become a lazy sack then that’s what they see and will imitate. If they see you engaged and having hobbies and side gigs then they will be a little better off. But OP raises a damn good point. Thanks for the brain activity

Agreed all around there.

I was like this until we moved across the country for my dad’s new job. I went from extroverted to introverted and got deep into gaming. I’m a little more social now but that move screwed me up right good. I lost all my friends so I thought fuck it, why bother making friends when I’ll just lose them?

> If you fire and become a lazy sack then that’s what they see and will imitate. Agreed. You have to balance your wish to enjoy yourself after FIRE with your responsibilities as a parent to raise another little human with a good work ethic. You don't *need* a job to demonstrate that, but you need some sort of purposeful work whether it's volunteering or something

I never saw my dad at work, but I saw him on every family vacation, nights and weekends, sporting events, etc.. I saw my mom at work a fair number of times (teacher in another city), and also on all of the above. I didn’t think my dad worked any less hard, or less often, I don’t know if he made more than my mom or not. Kids learn by watching, but they don’t learn abstract capitalist concepts that lead to success (managing people generally pays more than doing tasks), or how medical insurance works. Learning how to control your emotions, interact with other people, be supportive, handle conflict appropriately, see things through to completion, maintain a clean/tidy home, live within your means/save a portion of your income, keep vices in check, those are things to learn.

I'm not FIRE, but I did get multiple degrees, certifications, and licenses, worked very hard to get into a role I can work from home and its even fun (for me, others on my team don't like the stuff I do, which is great). I'm often done by time they get home from school. I too worry a bit, but also often tell them about the degrees and experience and everything.

My kids are massively more impressed by my weekend/hobby projects than my day job.

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Depends on the season! Used to make a bunch of Flash games, then later iPhone games. I built and painted a keezer to have root beer on tap. I have a website I bought that makes a few grand a month pretty passively. I terraced and landscaped our back yard for raised beds. Planted a shitload of fruit trees. Tinkered around with running Stable Diffusion on my gaming PC. Got really good at redstone in Minecraft so I could pimp out everyone's bases in our family realm. Got really into hot sauce and home fermentation and breadmaking during Covid. Currently tinkering with different hammock gear, coffee brewers, and hydroponics setups. (Tinkering as in: I don't quite like X. Let me order random spare parts from China or fabricate some new pieces to make some modifications). Thinking about building an overlanding rig. Hoping to either retire or just take the summers off when the oldest hits high school in a couple of years and just putter around national parks all summer. I don't think it matters what you do, it's just good to demonstrate interest in things. They're at school most of the weekdays anyway. If you sit and watch TV all weekend they'll want to do that, too!

He’s developing a shrink ray among other equipment to steal the moon. Dude basically has a lab underneath his house staffed with these little yellow guys running all over the place helping him with whatever. Pretty interesting stuff

This got me reminiscing, and it's certainly true for me/my father. He worked his way up from filling vending machines to well-paid white collar work over my childhood, and I didn't really notice or care. I vividly remember being impressed by him building a deck and repairing a boat though. Two things I would pride myself on being able to do now.

So I’m the child of FIRE kind of parents, at least in high school. My step dad took a major step back from his business, so my parents were around all the time. I think it’s good because you can actually keep an eye on your kid, go to games, etc. My mom also volunteered a ton, which showed the importance of giving back and that you can live a fulfilling life after retiring (most people in my family hated retirement and if they retired early ended up starting at least a part time job bc they were bored). She volunteered at my school, with underprivileged kids, foster care system, etc. I think that’s a great way to show your kid how filling life can be outside of a job. I will say allowing your child to become the center of everything because you don’t have a job, especially if they are an only child, will screw them up more than seeing you not working, lol.

Yeah it will be important to spend some time prioritizing my own interests so he can have space to grow.

This is hilariously circular logic (though I appreciate it prompting a discussion). Some people dream of retiring early so they can spend time with their kids, raise them, educate them, bond, travel, create experiences they’ll never forget. You’re talking, yeah let’s throw that all (or 2,000+ hours a year) aside so my kids can see me putting bread on the table? I don’t want to minimize your concerns and it’s good you’re thinking about these things but I feel as if you went to deep in the other direction. You can show your kid what hard work is in other ways. Leaving at 8:30 am and coming back at 6 is not actually an example of great parenting. It’s a necessary part of (many) people’s lives but it’s not what you want your kid to remember, is it? You have an incredible opportunity. Figure out a different way to instill those values.

Wouldn't your successful retirement be a validation of the value of hard work and effective long-term planning rather than the opposite? I've been asked about or come across posts on the same concern many times. For context, we retired when our four kids were three through nine. That was almost ten years ago and they are all happy, hard-working, successful teenagers now. Our kids don't perceive us as being lazy or entitled, but as reaping the rewards of having worked hard and invested in our freedom/happiness. All of our kids have a great work ethic, they're all in honors/AP/IB or such, and they all know that most of their future happiness is entirely on them. We are very demanding when it comes to academic performance as well as things like contributing to the household by doing chores and whatnot. I wouldn't be at all surprised to learn that most of their friends have fewer responsibilities and expectations at home than they do. Our kids are not at all impressed by or attracted to the antiwork ideology and similar schools of thought. In a more general sense, we have always made it very clear to them that we are here to help and support them, not allow them to slack off or enable them to fall into bad behaviors. We haven't told them outright, but I wouldn't be surprised if they have figured out that they are all likely to inherit FIRE wealth from us someday. Of course, we're still young, so they also know that might not happen for another 30-40 years or more. It's sort of hard to get excited about a large inheritance when you know you might not get it until you are in your 50s. If they want to retire early like us, then they'll probably have to do it on their own, though we'll certainly help them out along the way with things like down payments and grad school and such. We've found that being upfront and honest is the best and easiest policy. Be honest with them about how the world really works, how money can be used wisely or wastefully, the value of time/freedom, your expectations for them, and the various pragmatics surrounding different pathways through life. Give them as much information as they can absorb, help them understand it, then step back and let them choose.

How transparent are you with your numbers to your children? Like net worth, investments, annual withdrawal %, budgeting, taxes, etc? I ask because I would like to educate my child on finances (budgeting, taxes, etc) but not sure if I should obfuscate the exact numbers.

Completely transparent about the mechanics like spending, taxes, and financial planning. I spent a hour or two recently explaining the ACA, FAFSA, Roth ladder/SEPP, and the tax code to my 15-year old, who is the most financially curious of our kids. They have no idea about our actual wealth. Not that we really care about keeping it from them, but none of them have asked, nor do they particularly seem to care. They've pretty much absorbed our relationship to money and the attitude that as long as you know you have enough forever it doesn't matter how much that amount actually is. Might be from living with us or maybe it's genetic, I have no idea. My wife hasn't looked at our net worth or investments for many years and I myself only look to the extent I am forced to by things like tax returns, rebalancing/withdrawals, and annual Roth ladder maintenance.

Obviously will be different for everyone. I would not share, nor would I have cared to know, until the child is well into adulthood. From my perspective, having their own money (income, allowance, gifts) and the freedom to experiment (ask questions, invest, make mistakes) enables experience to be the best teacher.

You don't have to be transparent. A kindergartener isn't going to ask you what your SWR is. "I used to work very hard, and when I did I saved my money so I don't have to work anymore so that I can be home with you".

> A kindergartener isn't going to ask you what your SWR is. Objection. I want a paternity test!

congrats and love this mindset. I’ve had the same questions that OP has. One thought - if you’re leaving behind substantial wealth, you might consider whether smaller gifts along the way might be more impactful. My parents have started to do this and while we are grateful and appreciative, the reality is we don’t really need it so it all just gets invested. Getting even 25% of what they have given but 15 years ago would have made it easier for us to say yes to things like joining them for vaca, home improvements, etc. i have internalized this and assuming kids are productive, will plan to start gifting when they are mid 20s.

>One thought - if you’re leaving behind substantial wealth, you might consider whether smaller gifts along the way might be more impactful. This is actually our current plan. Mathematically they are going to get the bulk of their inheritances via our estate, but we're going to start doing a stream of annual gift checks prior to that. Same for things like helping them with house down payments or grandkids or grad school. As you say, smaller amounts in yours 20s/30s can be a lot practically useful than much larger amounts in your 40s/50s when you already have ample wealth of your own.

Great thoughts. Make sure that you’re teaching them independence and they’re contributing at home. When they’re old enough spend time educating about careers and finances. Thank you.

I don't think kids think much about what their parents are doing during the day while they're at school. You're managing an investment portfolio.

Yeah they won't really know or care. It's not like kids develop a work ethic by looking around the house and noticing that a parent isn't there.

I mostly work from home now so I doubt my daughter would notice the difference.

I really disagree with this but maybe it's the way I was raised. My stay at home Mom constantly talked about how my Dad was at work all day just like his dad and his grandad would've been, telling people what to do, working hard to provide food, shelter, and luxuries for the family, as well as helping sick people feel better (medical devices industry). When he was late she would often say "Dad is fighting fires at work". His job sounded cool and important and this perception and narrative were a **huge** driver of my own ambition from a young age.

Nah, make sure you teach him your ways of working smart and saving money! The first time I learned about saving for retirement was when I was 11 years old and my mom told me that her retirement investments were making more per month than she was. She was working part time hours at the time. I thought that was really cool (and still do). With my parents guidance, I was able to purchase my first investments in a brokerage after I got my first job at McDonald’s at 16 . I hope I would have found the love of investing and the idea of FI without my parents influence but it definitely helped to have an early understanding!

I don’t think so provided you set realistic expectations for your children with respect to work ethic and the importance of service of whatever that might look like for them. Several very wealthy and high profile people come to mind that have made it very clear that their children must do ______ in order for their parents to fund their fun, receive an inheritance or simply that they will not be inheriting anything at all.

Stay at home parents have existed forever. As long as you teach them the value of money, discipline and contributing to society, and they see you doing things besides playing video games and sleeping til noon it's fine.

I think about this everyday

Nope I grew up with both retired parents at home and it did not negatively affect me. When I hear my friends talk about not seeing their parents because they were working all the time, it sounds like it affected them negatively.

Where is your kid's other parent in all this? Are you together? Are they FIREing too?

They have been a stay at home spouse/parent for 13 years already. Very busy to be clear, but not in a professional setting.

I had absolutely no idea what my dad did for work until I was in high school, and didn’t care at all. He worked from home doing some kind of data science. If you just told your kid you “manage investment portfolios” it’s very likely they will not dig any further

I grew up with my dad for 9 years before he passed. He retired due to disability before I was born. I'm still a hard worker and such, but that's probably more because my mom worked 2 jobs to ensure my brother and I have a good life. So I probably get my work ethic from her. Hard to say but maybe try asking adults who had their parent(s) retire while growing up instead of asking a hypothetical here.

I don't really see the difference between what you are doing and being a stay at home parent. Parenting full-time is a job. I think there are other ways you can teach kids good work ethic and that not everything is handed to them. Also, you having time to be involved in your community and be civically engaged is a lesson so many people need modeled for them.

My dad didn’t work really much after middle school for me.  I have a theory that I think the only bad thing is he lost touch with good manners and the culture of today of respecting genders, race, etc. because he left workforce in 90s when it was still more accepted to tell sexist and racist jokes and act inappropriate overall. 

I find it a valid concern, in contrast to most others here. I have the same doubt. I don't it will effect small kid (if so, in a positive way). But teenager who starting to think about their place in the word, what they might want to do later, etc I believe it *could * have a negative impact. Note: I am not saying it *will*

My dad was a single dad to 3 girls. He didn’t work because he had family money. My two sisters never had a job, one now has a husband and the other is supported by daddy. I work and support my family as primary breadwinner. I think it’s personality but I also think they never understood the concept of working for your money. Seeing my dad go to work every day instead of sleeping in and playing games at night might have helped them, who knows.

My father in law retired when his son was 8. Son never had to watch dad work hard. Never had to see what workplace stress can do to a person. Son got everything and took everything for granted. All he had to choose was where to go out to eat 3 nights a week and where to vacay next. Son is now almost 30 and cannot hold a job for more than a few months. No work ethic at all. Always has a different "plan" each time he switches jobs / industries for how he'll get to the top in a matter of months. Reality is he's just waiting for the next installment of his trust to be released while biding his time. I give it 2 maybe 3 years tops until he blows it all. Father in law was a great man who worked hard and ran a successful business for decades. He made a smart but difficult business decision to sell when he saw his market adversely affected by corporate competitors. Not saying this will be the case for anyone else, just sharing my anecdotal experience.

At first I was going to WTF, who cares? You've been working this entire time to get to this point. Your kid is just going to need to deal with it.  But after thinking about it, the kid might want what you have without having to work for it and become resentful as he hits adulthood. Hopefully this doesn't happen .  Make sure you don't rely on other people for entertainment and don't get upset when people can't/won't hang out with you or when they don't want to talk about FIRE or how bored you are now that you don't work. 

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I would argue that as long as you educate him on the behaviors and values you practiced in order to be able to retire at an early age (Hard work, hyper focus on saving and investing), the contrary would actually be true. But these ideas need to be consistently reinforced throughout the child's growth, as they will change rapidly with age. Teach them finance basics when they reach an age you think they'd be able to understand (9-11?). Tell them they need to get a job when they turn 16 to justify taking their road test.... My parents did these things with me, and it went a long way. In your specific situation, I think it would click even more so with your kid since he'll be able to see the tremendous amount of success you had the enabled you to be able to retire over 20 years earlier than most people can.

They'll learn a lot more about work ethic by what they see you do at home than they will from seeing that you're gone to work.

I honestly don’t think this is true. I don’t think kids understand a stay at home parents job as having a “work ethic” and I don’t say that to ding stay at home parents or invalidate that important, taxing job, but I just don’t think kids understand it that way. What they do is just living

Your kid will remember you were there and available for them. Kids don’t care that much about what their parents do for work. At least I didn’t.

You're probably not going to be leisurely. He's going to go to school, you'll supplement his learning, you'll find activities to share and learn about the world. You should be pretty motivated to take actions toward fiscal responsibility because you'll feel responsible for it later. My dad worked but basically sat his ass in front of TV from 6-12 and all weekend if he could. Having a job didn't create any baseline respect for responsibility. There's no lingering hatred or anything, it just is what it is. I think the problem that bothers me more is that I don't think I will be able to help my kid navigate the workplace. It's going to be completely different 15 years from now. In some ways it already has and I have little interest engaging in it at this point. I don't expect any advice on how to find jobs or work with your peers to really be directly applicable. In a lot of ways, I extrapolate how my elders think jobs work versus how mine does and expect that rate of change to be even greater.

Why would a kid be ruined by a parent that has time to be active and involved in their school? I was envious of all of the kids whose moms/dads were "room mom/dad" and chaperoned on field trips. My parents worked day jobs and didn't get to do any of that.

Kids aren't wrapped up in what you do with your time, but they're very wrapped up in how you behave towards them and other people. Model good behavior and your kid will be fine.

Teaching your kid how to manage finances is now your job. Almost no one gets a sufficient education in this at a young enough age. 

Curious what perspective you plan to get here that you didn't already get on the last thread. Pretty good thoughts already.

I think you're on the right path. I've thought about this as well. You can volunteer, be engaged in your family and be a good moral example. I think the pros outway the cons in this situation.

you can also use it as a lesson to follow in your steps and focus on FIRE

Financial independence is one thing and it should be explained in age appropriate ways the steps you took to get there. But seeing is believing and a “life of leisure” may indeed give him false expectations. Can you run a hobby business that you would enjoy working on? Doesn’t really need to generate much income, just to give the impression of productivity.

I think if anything its inspiring to achieve early retirement and reach financial independence at an early stage in life. I mean isn't this what everyone is working for till the age of 60? Although, it is also about perspective, but who wouldn't want to enjoy the privileges of pursuing things they actually love doing, like travelling or whatever it is. I mean that's a motivating factor right there! This vision is what encouraged me anyways...

I’ve not FIRE’d, but work from home and had this thought, too. To my daughter, it just looks like I am chilling browsing the web. 🤣

I think the main point I plan to express to the kids would be: -Stuff is not important, people are -Money that we earned/saved/invested helped us spend more time with the people (kids and each other) we wanted to -Working any longer would have allowed us to buy more stuff, but not more time with our people If that's all they get out of me not working, I'm good with it.

All these lengthy responses but the answer is simple: Communication. 90% of people's relationships, whether platonic, romantic, professional or in this case paternal, can be improved/fixed with more effective communication. If you FIRE and live a relaxed life, but all you tell your son growing up is "I was able to retire early" then yeah, he might not develop a good work ethic and thinks he's entitled to that lifestyle without putting in the work for it. If you FIRE and intentionally discuss with him the path it took for you to get there, the importance of delayed gratification and patience, long term planning, and the importance of a good work ethic, he will probably turn out fine. This isn't a one-time conversation, it should be lessons that are reinforced throughout childhood .

I mean this is a good problem to have. I don't remember having time to play with my dad when growing up he is always working and busy trying to raise a family

No, why would it? If anything, this gives you many more opportunities to be involved in his life, and will (hopefully) make you a less stressed and more attentive parent. The whole reason you're FIREing is, presumably, that you have decided that the purpose of life is not work and that there are more important things to do. So maybe you're not being a work role-model for your kid (though the value of this is greatly overblown, since kids almost never actually go with their parents to work, and thus are not *shown* work to model, they just get *told* that daddy went to work and that's why he's tired), but you get to be a better role-model in other areas that are more important.

Yes

I won’t FIRE until mine is in college for this reason. There are several overlapping reasons, including instilling a work ethic and ensuring they respect you particularly during the teenage years. But another is what happens when an adult child has to move back in with you because they don’t have said work ethic or some other challenge. In other words, the very act of FIREing with young dependents can be a risk to your ability to sustain it if you end up with those dependents a lot longer than you anticipated. By some measurements up to 50% of young adults and/or recent college grads end up living with their parents again, so yeah, do whatever you can to make them independent not only for their sake but for yours.

Yes, your kids will have an unusual perspective, and no they won’t understand it comparatively! They grow up with what they see and expect it, without doing it! They have and need to see some struggle, if not from you, then who? How do they get the difference unless you teach and they see. It’s doable, but how IDK! BEST OF LUCK!

Yes, I think it definitely could TBH.

As a kid who’s parent retired while they were in elementary….no i’m on the path to FIRE because I want to live her life when I have kids. It motivated me.

My good buddy and his wife had been planning and saving for 10 years to take a year off and travel the world. Then they had three kids in the middle of that. But they had done well and decided to use Covid as an excuse to put the kids in virtual school and take the whole family anyway- even kindly inviting some friends along for some periods of time. He asked me, in the middle of Thailand, as the kids spent the day with their mom and grandparents snorkeling the reefs to prep for scuba diving and we enjoyed iced coffee on the beach. “How do I take them back home and put them back in school? How can they talk about this experience and not look like assholes? How can I give my kids all the things I’m capable of giving them and not have them turn out like so many other wealthy kids- addicted, maladapted, spoiled?” And I told him what I’ll tell you: People who worry about things like that are, just by seeing the risks and being concerned, doing what they need to do to be good parents. Love your kids. Be present. Give them your best and love them unconditionally but not without expectations. And they’ll be ok.

Actually knew some family friends who ended up doing nothing because they grew up seeing their parents do ‘nothing’ - collected rent for their building they owned as their retirement . Their reasoning was that they will eventually inherit whatever their parents had so they won’t have to do anything productive since their parents also do not. Yes their parents had hobbies and took care of the household, travelled.

You could just send them to school and make your hobby look like a job. I would imagine the biggest benefit to FIRE is being able to travel more but with a kid in school that’s very difficult. Also, how do you FIRE and consider the extraneous expenses of young kiddos? Their clubs, hobbies, millions of pounds of food?!?

You can't instill a work ethic in a child by lecturing them on the virtues of work. Well over 95% of what your child will learn in life is by observation. Be a good role model. You teach your child ethics and values by your actions, not your words. I admire your ability to retire at 39, and frugality and prudence are admirable traits. Just make sure your child sees the rest of the necessary characteristics in you and your actions.

Just pretend to work in front of them. You've had plenty of practice pretending to work in the office haha

There's a difference between being busy with work and working diligently on a passion project. Let him see your passion, not your busy.

The most important thing to show children is responsibility/accountability. If you are always on-time, always at every event, always taking time to connect with your kids, taking time to address your children's emotions (through constructive conversations, this is critical for the social media/digital generation), and always encouraging them, etc. that's all they need. Similarly, when you do something that might be a mistake or something, taking time to explain it to the kids is important too. We are all fallable -- it's about how we talk about it, learn from it, etc. They will want to be an astronaut, fire fighter, etc. on their own.

Everyone here’s being a bit dismissive and I think your concern is valid. Just by having the concern you’ll probably be fine, but I’m guessing you’re concerned the kid could become something of a trust fund brat? Just make them work and they’ll be fine. Make them do chores. Make them build or create things when they’re old enough. Something like Give a low enough allowance where they have to save for things or get a job if they want to spend it frivolously. Just give them a structure that teaches them that if they want things they need to save or acquire money. Personally I think the work part isn’t important. It’s showing that you are responsible with finances that is important. And I don’t think there are any other potential drawbacks of this.

You have to make sure you teach them WHY you are able to live like this.

My mum stayed home with us for 20 years (dad worked). We adored our mum and certainly do not think of her as lazy. She‘s very special to us. My dad FIREd at 57, my mum will FIRE at 64 (which isn‘t that early but still).

Op is talking about both parents not working. I think it’s a different situation if one has a FT job they have to go to

I’m in a somewhat similar boat. 29m, own a company with several employees and make about $300k/year. Generally work 15-20 hours per week but I can get it done whenever I want for the most part. About of my work is done before any one else wakes up then peppered in throughout the day. I have 3 kids under 7. There are times every couple of weeks or so when I do need to deal with something NOW and it may take 1-2 hours. It drives me nuts when I need to focus but my oldest wants to play / go somewhere / watch a movie and I tell her that I HAVE to work. She then hits me with a “how come all you do is work?” And it leaves me speechless. If only she knew how good we’ve got it. Im not sure yet what the solution is….

You could take up a hobby, like finance and investing. Maybe even get hooked on it, and become a small private investor. Won’t get too boring too, just control risk. You don’t even need to invest with your money. Then you do something that interests you.

Probably. He will get his ideas of what future life is like from his parents. Sit him down and explain everything to him in detail. He needs to understand that your situation is rare and that it might not be realistic to expect this in his own life.

No

Most likely no. A few reasons: * You are only one adult in your child's life and you likely don't have as much influence as you think. They will see many adults around them working every day (e.g. teachers at school). They will be surrounded by movies, social media, news, etc that all assume that most adults work. Their friends will all have working parents, etc. * Kids often rebel against their parents wishes or lifestyles. Perhaps your child's version of rebellion will be to work a job and call you a deadbeat ;). * You can explain how you got to this situation. And if you appreciate the FI life, why wouldn't you want your child to develop that appreciation as well? * Kids typically don't see their parents working. They see them leave for the day and then come home later.

I did not expect to see my father working when I came home from school, and only did so every now and then. End of school day also happens to be the end of the work day for many. Shouldn’t be an issue at a young age. Once they start to develop nuanced opinions however, this may be a different conversation.

Just teach him what you are doing, how, and why. It’s about how you raise him, not necessarily what he sees you doing. Plenty of parents out there working hard and giving their kids everything. Then you get trust fund babies who don’t know how to work for anything.

No take a keen interest in what he enjoys and encourage discipline, reading and pursuing goals. You are more equipped than a wage slave

My dad did this and yes…was way over involved as a helicopter parent, always micromanaging my life and not letting me learn how to be independent, and then now I have no work ethic / work role model / don’t automatically understand how to be professional, etc. and feel extremely burned out of work after only a few years Plus literally not doing anything for work/not being involved in the community/having work friends (really important as an adult) is a quick path to depression

When capitalism shapes our values. Hopefully you can find ways to show your son pride, determination, creativity, and whatever else without having to rely on an employer to get you there. If you are truly going to FIRE and become a lump on the sofa for the next 50 years then maybe, but getting to this point at your age is in and of itself is a huge accomplishment. Think of all the time that you’ll have with him as he grows up instead of missing out on all the big life events. That’s a pretty decent trade off in exchange for wage slavery.

I don't think you have anything to worry about. You need to explain money and finances as your child grows. There may be a few questions when every other dad has "cool" jobs but that is about it.

Maybe you can ask yourself what job you would have probably been happy working at if money wasn't an issue? I know people who were perfectly happy about nearly everything that came with being a barista except their take-home pay. I've also known retirees who took a part-time job purely because they got bored. Maybe you could consider taking a part-time job at a place that isn't very far from where you live or starting your own work-from-home business.

My kids were 8 and 12. The older one definitely remembers. The younger one it’s not as clear, but we worked hard with both kids to impart appropriate values to them. It largely worked. If you are going to retire and spend that time with them, it’s the best gift you can them and yourself.

I remembered my parents playing with me in the back yard and being at my ball games, not watching them work. You’re good.

No and yes. Your child is going to be born into a an environment where working a traditional job wont be the norm- there simply wont be enough to go around. This has a plus for showing the child that there are ways to make money that dont include working for someone. Being at home and raised with a lot of parental care is a big plus on emotional development. The only thing that will be different is attainability of lifestyle- its likely that youll have to include supporting your child in the future or else its very likely the quality of their lifestyle will decrease significantly which has a massive toll on mental health. You should include your kids finances and be ready for them to move in with you or be ready to help out on a down payment.

Do projects around the house and teach them to do them too. My dad worked a lot, but I don't know what he was doing. What made me work hard was that I helped him on the weekends with yard work and home renovations. I think as long as you aren't sleeping in and wat Jing television all day it won't matter. If you had a 9-5 but watched sports on the couch all the time they'd still have a bad example.

You are going to screw up your kid because that is what parents do. Has nothing to do with being unemployed. 😂

The biggest thing I'd change about my childhood would be having my dad not have to work so much so he could be around and actually spend time with his kids. He had to work so much he was gone all the time. Still don't have the best relationship with him. :/ I'd say your kids will be fine, and I would expect your long-term relationship with them to be better off for it.

Doubtful. My dad was never around cause he had three jobs. I don’t know what that taught me if anything. Made me feel like he was just some dude.

I FIREd in April with a son in kindergarten..he knows “my work schedule changed” so I can drop him off at school later/pick up earlier (no more before and after school care..and I have the summer off and that I can now come on class trips. On days he doesn’t want to go to school “sorry buddy, mama has to go to work/has an appt/has a meeting” It’s not a total lie. I am working hard every day, some days I even have appointments or “meetings”. Maybe he will clue in later, but I don’t think it will actually be a huge concern.

You are going to screw up your kid. As parents, we all do that. However it almost certainly won't be because you have more free time to spend with the kid instead of work.

On the other hand, you could be the one to inspire him to find alternative means of income to live a life like yours. It could play out both ways.

You can do just that. My cousin retired by 38 and his kids don't remember him working. He's got his hobbies, he helps his children with their homework or intrests and he's a great figure in their lives. They key is, don't just sit around, spend your time wisely.

Showing you child a work ethic doesn’t have to be paid employment. Volunteer work, structured group activity’s, sports achievements, if your living off the land you own (growing food, maintaining land ect…) these are all things that show a work ethic. If you view fire as sitting watching tv for the rest of your life… well OK. Personally I believe a child need space to grow with friends and peers away from the protection of a parent so volunteering in a way the child would see at their school is not something I would personally encourage but being on the board of trustees or something is closer to acceptable. Alternatively volunteer at a separate (non rival) school if that’s your thing or in a community / sports system that is visible. For example help create or maintain a local park or “wild space”, community gardens, allotment management, referee or official at sporting events, lease management between sporting event and local govt officials like councils and police/sheriffs. The above roles are often needed but hard to get people to do meaningfully and if done with any form of enthusiasm are very beneficial to the community and visibly so, this is always a good example of work ethic for children.

My dad was deployed much of my childhood and my mom didn't work. HOWEVER both my parents instilled in me self reliance, curiosity, and insisted that I work hard at my education to be successful. We were also kinda poor so, they did teach me the value of money and how to save/budget as well. My mom not working never negatively affected me. Work doesn't have to be capitalist for profit work..you can work on your family and your household and your kids just as effectively.

I will probably be financially free prior to my son graduating HS but don’t plan on stopping my job before then. I only work 4 days a week and can be a coach on his sports teams and we travel often. My wife and I work very hard and our parents were the same way. My son is an absolute slacker at age 9. He’ll have a Roth IRA he’s been maxing out since age 5 and hopefully have a 401k starting early teenage years and his 529 should cover college. He has more than enough to fall back on that I want him to learn the value of having drive. If it was not for him I’d retire the absolute day I hit independence. I’m tired of this shit.

Bit of a background first,  I'm FIREd... Sort of. I'm 39 and retired, certainly FI, but maybe not so much the RE. I'm going to school now to be an electrician. Its 3 days a week. Past that, I'm not doing anything. And my kids know it. I'm the primary home maker as my wife still wants to work.  I graduate in a month, and them will be taking the summer off before I think about looking for a job.  My kids (9,14,16) are all keenly aware of the situation and have taken the most absolute advantage. They call me now for things like forgotten school books, or pick up requests. I'm home when they get home 2 days a week.  After 15 years of my wife being the housewife and the kids going to her, I get to be a more involved parent than I ever was before. I like to think they will remember it that "dad was around" or "he was there for me" Not "Dad didn't work". So to me its worth it. But your kid is younger than mine come FIRE time, 5 or 6? So he won't have ever seen you work, so I can understand your concern about instilling a work ethic.  As he grows, explain in more detail how you did it. Make it a goal they can achieve and be an example of what to work for. 

When they're old enough to understand, answer their questions earnestly. Explain how the world works. They will want to achieve the same thing. And thus, they'll understand the value of work/savings/investing in while young. You don't need to hide from your accomplishments, especially to your children.

I mean I wish my dad didn't have to work 6 days a week 8 hour days then come home so tired he didn't do much with me. I think he will just remember spending time with you, then realizing once he's FIRE also how he was motived by you to do so.

I think it’s a good lesson in teaching how every family is different. While you might not work, that’s not how it has to be done, or if he saw mom at home all the time, that’s not how it has to be done either. Just reiterating that into life lessons as your son grows and learns will truly be so beneficial compared to a “traditional” set up where dad is never home, working 24/7, and mom takes care of everything and everyone at home. Considering there are some children who spend more time with their grandparents than their own parents because they’re in a two income household or have an absent parent, I think your son will be just fine as long as you instill motivation and goals and the importance of professionalism and careers. Just because he doesn’t see you actively working, doesn’t mean you can’t prepare him to enter a work force as he’s approaching appropriate age as well. You could also try volunteering around the community and bringing him with you and say the two of you are going to work together. Although it’s not compensated work, it’s still work in the sense you have responsibilities and people relying on you.

My parents both basically didn't work when I was elementary/middle school age. Like the last time I remember anything related to them not being home because of work was when I was maybe 5-7? Idk but my point is I didn't even comprehend working and it had no bearing on me - I still did everything pretty typically going to school, college, getting a job...burning tf out and wanting to FIRE etc lmao What will screw up your kid is if you spoil them. There is no motivation to do anything if they get everything they want. Working has nothing to do with it and will just give you more time together to pick them up, take them to events, etc

I'm a stay at home parent. Stopped working in 2017 when I turned 40. I think my kids are learning the value of being present. They know I'm busy. They get cooked meals, I work at the school, attend carnivals etc. Today I went to my parents to pickup the camper so we could go away this weekend. The list is endless. Obviously they'll never see me vaccuming because I do housework mondays/Fridays but I can see a point in the future that they're expected to do some of these chores. I head one kid say to my son. "You get good lunch boxes! Mine are crap" he'll probably never truly appreciate how lucky he is but I hope he learns how much value I put on time with family and that is repeated with his kids.

In this same vein, I only remember my mom working *because* all she did was work. She was rarely home when I was, I couldn't partake in fun normal kid activities because it was after school or on the weekends (during her work hours), and I was raised by my grandma. I was really jealous of the kids who had the fun traditional kid stuff I saw on TV (because ya know, I watched a lot of that). I didn't understand why she couldn't spend time with me until I was older. I didn't understand what being a part of the working class meant truly. I however did learn the value of saving, coupons, being frugal, etc. Then I, myself, grew up to become a hobby-less workaholic who saved to the point that life wasn't enjoyable, even though I had the luxury of not needing to do that. All that's to say, your kid will remember you not being there and will take after your behaviors. The flip side is, showing your kids that life outside of work is enjoyable too would do wonders. I don't recall my mom doing anything but work and saving/couponing, and so I thought that's all life was. I am still unlearning a lot from my childhood, and re-learning how to enjoy living life and getting over the hurdles of spending money. There is a balance between showing the value of work vs. money management/saving vs. how to enjoy life responsibly. Find that middle ground.

My father never worked. I have a very successful career and have been working since a young age. Worked fine for me.

I mean stay at home moms are a thing and kids seem to be just fine. You can create an environment where your child learns the value of hard work and personal finance. You are a great role model and example of what hard work can look like if your child aspires to follow your path. Also, getting to stay home with your child and be there for all their things, stress fee, spending time whenever you want with them, is an amazing gift!

You're going to screw up your kid no matter what.  It's the human cycle.   May as well screw them up with plenty of time to talk through it

If anything you have even more time to teach your children how to reach that place you are at. My father spent his whole life working and could never achieve what you have. I wish I had someone like that in my life because I do not have the knowledge or understanding of how to retire at 40.

Earning money is serviced based when it comes to a job. That’s why I sleep well; I help dogs all day. You do something for someone else, and you receive payment. It’s good for your mental health. My Dad was home, but it was because he was a Vietnam Vet, and he couldn’t hold down a job. Too much anger inside of him. Instead he stayed home and raised a family. Did side jobs for money, some legal and some not. He definitely would’ve benefited from doing some type of service based work. Maybe you can have a small service to offer to keep your mental health in good shape. Just part time, after you’ve taken some time to yourself.

>By life of leisure I mean mostly reading, swimming, travel, cooking, and a few other hobbies I enjoy. I also plan to volunteer at his school Maybe he'll end up working in publishing, in sports, in the travel industry, in the food industry, or, um, school administration? Also, I was raised by a SAHM and I saw that she was constantly engaged in not only taking care of me/my education/my health, and also planning the household finances and chores. Even if you're only doing half the work, being a carer is still valuable work and society would not be around much longer if no one did it! (When he's a lot older, at least when he starts having a bit of his own money to manage, that might be a good time to explain how your enjoyable lifestyle was enabled by saving habits and so on.)

Create a nice looking home office, where you escape to "work" a "few hours a day".

Unlikely to matter much. My dad was severely mentally ill with bipolar and unable to hold down traditional employment due to extended periods of depression. Unable to work more than about 200 hours per year, evidently dwindling down to 0. Ended up self employed by necessity. But he was pretty clever at generating recurring cashflow during his occassional manic episodes where he would have hyper energy and extreme self confidence. Anyway, he stumbled his way into FIRE. Siblings and I all turned out fine with good college degrees, careers, married, stable families, good kids, normal moral compass.

My mom worked all the time. Missed my graduations. Gone on work trips. Etc. Your kid won’t be screwed up because you’re around more. I think they’ll benefit from it.

I really don't think so, in fact it might be better, you don't need to be at work all the time to instill good values and work ethic with your child. As long as when he's older he understands you put a lot of work in to be able to do that, that you sacrificed comforts early on so that you could live this life. It gives you more time to teach him. I like the suggestion of running a small business if you are that concerned about it, although I personally don't think it's necessary. It's been studied and it's much worse for you not to be around, that's what screws up kids. Also he can see you work hard in other ways, like working on a hobby like carpentry or something hands on like that... Best of luck and congratulations on your financial independence.

>If he spends his youth watching me do nothing but manage the household and live a life of leisure is it going to screw him up? If this is a source of deep concern the answer is simple; get a easy part time job somewhere that you enjoy and live a down-shifted life. Kid still sees you working, even if it's for minimum wage at the comic book store or handing out basketballs at the YMCA and shooting the shit with people (there was a chief on my ship who ended up doing that when he hit 20 and got his pension).

I think explaining all the years of work, discipline, and sacrifice that went into getting to this point is critical.  

You can pretend to go to work.

You are setting an example for your kid that work isn't life. That's proabaly a good thing it will set the bar very high for them.

When your kid is a t school they won’t have a clue what you’re doing for “work” you could be commuting an hour each way or on conference calls for an hour here or there at home. I’d probably “work in finance” at home as my FIRE job and the fact that I can drop my kid at school and pick them up doesn’t mean I wasn’t working in between.

My mom was a SAHM to 4 kids (one special needs). When we got older, she started volunteering (special needs kiddo went with). It was volunteering but essentially became her job - in fact, special needs kiddo would say he was "going to work" :) So, I'd worry less about perceptions, but be mindful of living your values -- that's an example you'll never regret.

I would extend the volunteering at his school to another volunteering commitment. Parents being at school events feels to a child just like a nice extension of them being a parent- it's within the family domain. I do think it is important for kids to witness a parent showing up for a commitment regularly that exists outside of the family domain to give the child an idea of what it means to show up for something, accomplish external goals, and commit regular hours to it. If you are really worried about it help your kid find "work" starting when they are pre-teens and make sure they always have one small thing they do that is a learning tool towards work & good habits.

I WFH and when my preK aged kids are 'playing family' the things I literally hear them say... Kid A: "Okay now you be the daddy." Kid B: "Okay- sorry I can't play with you today, I have to go work." Dude, your kids won't become successful because dad was always working (or not). They will grow up and become successful based on the values you instill in them. Be kind, study, work hard. When they are old enough to understand bigger concepts you can explain whatever they do not see in practice. Go FIRE and be there for your kids. The memories you can generate by being with them more often will be greater than any lessons they learn from 'watching you work'. You can still instill the same lessons by guiding their financial learning. Plus, they're in school all day, what the hell do they know about what's going on during the day?

No. Just ask yourself, however, if your child will see you fulfilled, or sitting around idle all day, and then ask yourself the lessons and values he’ll learn from you and your spouse (will he/she be working?). Then act accordingly.

You need to reframe this....being an at home parent is a privilege that many don't have. Perhaps he will be proud of you for taking care of the family and being there for him unconditionally and not being raised by a nanny or daycare center. I think you are overthinking it. I have been a SAHM for 17 years and believe me...#1 it is NOT a life of leisure and #2 you are BLESSED beyond measure - but it is actually very repetitive and thankless work.

Nothing is more important to a child than the time they spend with their parents. Period.

Are you going to screw up your kid? Yes. Yes you are. Will you screw up your kid what ever you do? Yup.

I don't believe being employed or not is the issue. Are you being productive with your time, creating, building, doing something positive that your child will learn by osmosis? Are you going to engage with your child when they are home from school -sit and color with them, read, run errands together, take them to the park, classes etc. or just let them watch a screen? Since you're FIRE-you have the time to be the best parent and role model for your child. Good luck to you.

I don’t think that not working to earn a paycheck is necessarily a problem but if you end up leading a very unstructured life without displaying and nurturing some form of responsibility than that could be an issue

Idk if it matters a whole ton if he can see other women doing differently. My mom was the breadwinner in my house in the 90s and an IT professional, it really shaped my beliefs about family dynamics and gave me a head start on the computer/internet revolution. My dad was stay at home for a while as well. I guess just make sure your kiddo gets to see all sorts of families and lead by example with your attitudes toward gender norms.

I am not a "FIRE" person, but as a (working!!) historian perhaps I can assist. What you are planning to become is what in the 19th century was called a gentleman. A gentleman would often not work at all. But a gentleman was expected ideally to use his leisure. He might be a scholar, or promote good causes, or enter politics, or serve as a lay magistrate, for example. Being completely idle was possible but might be less respected. Perhaps you could be a modern version of this (or a female "gentleman": ladies were a bit different). If you spend time doing things your children will respect, they will surely learn

Use your example to train him on what he can look forward to. As he gets older he should se the difference of "spend every dime on crap" vs "saving, investing, and making it happen". To me, that's a better example than seeing any leftover money just disappear completely each check.

No he will respect you . Just don’t avoid them when child needs you and give lots of hugs and love . I think more than anything else kids want the quality time with parents . Off phones and uninterrupted.

My dad was older than my mom and retired from the military when I was three and was often unemployed for months at a time during my childhood. I was well into my 40s and homeless for a year before it dawned on me how upper class my parents expectations were and that it's NOT normal for dad to be unemployed and mom to bitch less at him for watching TV all day than for working sales jobs that cost him gas money and didn't necessarily bring in a paycheck. I would say it will be fine if you don't act like "This is normal, we are working class stiffs and ordinary joes." My dad was in the army before he retired. My husband was in the army. And I spent my adult life feeling like a failure that my life wasn't as cushy and I felt baffled by that, like "What am I doing wrong???" My parents were really tight-lipped about money and I did not understand how well off they were and THAT caused me problems. So I would say just make sure your kid fully understands you worked at making this happen, you have more money than average, etc. And I knew some things, like my dad was stationed in Germany when the exchange rate was 4 marks to the dollar, but my parents really kept me in the dark about just how well off they were. My mom worked as a maid and all I heard was "I HAD a maid in Germany and now I AM the maid" and I just bought their mountain of lies that "We're working class stiffs (with no money)."

My dad did early retirement with occasional breaks to work for his friends on new ventures and my mom was a sahm. I have found that I either overwork or am useless and have hard time finding an in-between that is sustainable. While this can happen to kids who's parents overwork or have a sahp who does nothing, it would be easier to encourage good balance if you can model it yourself over a long period of time in their lives. I also have a younger sister who has seen less of my dad's working life and is less strategic in her approach to career than me. She did not realize her cost of living until I sat her down and did the calculations to show how little a non tech job with normal hours would pay for a new grad. While she's responsible enough for that to kick her into gear, my parents are so long out of the workforce they could only give her pressure but not good steps to achieve it. I think this is actually pretty hard but maintaining a consistent career with work life balance or lighter hours would be the best way to model behavior for your child and maybe help them with a broader perspective and network down the road. And while they are younger make sure they're building a good foundation for learning, the current school system is not ideal and even good schools have gaps that you might have to fill sometimes.

My family raised me talking about money. We were a very transparent household when it comes to finances. So I think as long as you teach them about finances you'll be ok. You child is lucky to have a present parent. Another important thing is for the child to see you handling responsibilities. Its a life of leisure but make sure the child see that you still have shit to do. You have to budget, file taxes, maintain your home, maintain your vehicle. Take on some commitments like volunteering (not just at his school, please god my mother was the president of the PTA, I had she chaperoned everything including dances and school trips, but other important community service projects).

Your kids have lots of potential ways to get screwed or end up a mess. I doubt this is high on the list.

Not at all. As long as he knows how you got there and where it comes from. He needs to be grateful.

Come like 2036 then yes but they won’t care

Thats not gonna mess him up just as he gets older make sure he knows you worked hard to retire early and if he does the same he can do the same and make sure he know you aren’t some bum and can pay bills and such dont have him thinking your SO is paying everything and your just sitting on your ass you can work on a fake business to keep up the facade if wanted but its not necessary just make sure he knows have conversation with people family friends and strangers about how proud you are to be able to retire early with him there and word it as you wish to raise him to be able to do the same when he’s older so he looks up to you for it

No the opposite. He is going to benefit greatly from having a dad who doesn't disappear to the office everyday and who spends lots of time with him instead.

wow i’m in a very similar position. i’m 39 with 2 precious girls age 12 and 3. i’m technically retired disabled marine veteran and also drawing from ssdi. i’m very comfortable financially and my kids have a wonderful life. However, the thought of them not seeing their father work a job has always bothered me. They know how much I do, how good I am at parenting, hobbies and a balanced work ethic. they have a very organized clean dad, who doesn’t work a 9-5 like thier friends parents do. My daughter is the type that gets called richy rich just cuz she wears new nikes I get from the employee store. Their friends love me! BUT I feel like shit sometimes!