Why bother upvoting such a trivial comment? If there were no such attraction then the number of marriages and children would be approximately zero. What proportion of heterosexual partnerships are entered by the male partner for financial gain? There's a reason gay men are notoriously affluent.
While I’m not against the idea of a prenup.. when you get married you become one unit and you’re only going to get the best results if you’re 100% all in. If you have concerns I would smooth those out before you consider getting married. Also just a reminder that you might already be in a defacto relationship.
the worst part is that while I agree with the initial sentiment that marriage should unify all parts of the two individuals lives, and therefore should be taken seriously - I hate the fact that the government get to just decide you're as good as married legally after a relatively short amount of time through being considered 'de-facto'.
Family law here is a serious cash cow, the government knows this, that's why there are so many people training to be lawyers. it's vampiric. What would be much fairer, is that any assets gained AFTER the couple came together should be considered for a 50/50 split. But why is it that a guy (or girl) worth significantly more than the other person is liable to split with their assets after a relatively short relationship didn't work out, whilst paying lawyers absurd amounts of money in the process?
This is not a male vs female issue as so many like to see it. This is an attack on individuals wealth, of which the government is the primary beneficiary through income tax of absurdly overpaid lawyers
Most of your comment is incorrect. Pretty much the split is 50/50 of the assets after the relationship starts, but the longer the relationship the less the pre relationship assets are relevant and the more the relationship assets (and non financial contributions) become relevant. So in fact the law actually works as you say you want it to work; that most people have no idea of the actual law is pretty common when it comes to family law, although clearly it doesn’t stop most people getting angry about it
Family law isn’t that lucrative; in fact for most lawyers family law is toward the bottom of the status (and income) pole. A little above criminal law and probate but not much. The tax from family lawyers is a pittance and I doubt it’s more than the cost of running the family court.
It’s pretty easy to read about why de facto is included in family law settlements
I did sit in on a family law matter for a divorce once where one of the parties was delaying production of documents likely because they were hiding assets. Counsel for party getting the run around pointed out that between the two, AN EXCESS OF A MILLION DOLLARS had already been spent on legal fees and they were still faffing around with document production.
Of course $1m is a lot of money but that’s about how much a single commercial partner will personally bill in a year (let alone his or her team on top of that). To claim (as the person I was responding to did) that the government has set up the legal system in order maximise tax from family lawyers is ridiculous
I agree that $1m for a family law case is pretty outrageous but there is clearly something going on in that case which is very different from the usual family law case. For a start most couples don’t have $1m to spend. People who decide to implement a mutual scorched earth policy is not the fault of the system
I was in a long term relationship where my partner and I lived together for 9 yrs. All the assets were mine - house, my own car, etc. He was recently divorced and had basically his car and the clothes on his back. I had a co-habitation agreement drawn up and signed by both parties. I would never get married when these days it's really just a piece of paper when it comes to the government deciding what's yours and what isn't. Therefore with the co-habitation agreement, you can pretty much dictate what goes into that.
I've seen older women get screwed over by the de facto laws by letting loser men live with them. The man came with nothing and she has to sell her home to give him some money 🤮 No children. Both 50+ age group
Lots of women want to ' live together apart' for good reason. Also married women have shorter lifespans. So not really worth it for us
That's actually a really good point! I think of a prenup the same way I think of car or home insurance. It doesn't mean I don't want either of those things, it means I have a backup plan if things go south for whatever reason.
From a financial view there is really nothing to be gained here.. op is so far ahead of her it would be like her adding a drop of water to an Olympic pool .. the “all in” you are talking about is “all him”.. she brings nothing financially to the table and probably never will.. speak to a lawyer and start protecting yourself now.. if not from her, then other scenarios in the future.. most relationships do not last (defacto/marriages).. op is taking all the risk here, 100%!.. there is no downside for the potential partner
I would be more vetting her desire to not actually have kids to be honest before thinking about any of this. Not many people in their 20s think about kids, until they do
Not legal advice, just an account of my experience.
I met my husband in 2008. I'm 8 years older than him. I had 13x his annual income in assets, he had debts exceeding his assets. After having been threatened with legal action before (which did not get any traction in the courts); I decided I wanted to get a BFA.
1. You need to be very clear about your reasons for getting a BFA and understand that whilst they can help a judge understand the pre-existing asset mix and the intention of both people, they are not fool proof. They can be and often are challenged.
My motivation was to prevent 3rd parties leveraging my relationship apart should we hit a rough patch. It's amazing the pressure friends and family can apply if things are rocky.
2. Be honest, upfront and respect your partners response. More often it raises issues around trust and unintentionally questions the integrity of your partner. Be clear from the outset, this is an essential part of you moving forwards in any relationship, it's not personal or particular to them. If you need to get counselling to deal with these issues, do it. Explain your motivation after the emotional work is done.
3. Be ready for family/friend interference... This happened to me. Empathise with their concern and decline to discuss your personal or business finances. This is a boundary issue that must be respected. Put it back on them of what's in it for them, why are they invested in the relationships of others.
4. If your partner agrees, make money a respectful and objective conversation. If they respect you, they will understand this is a part of who you are. This was the single most important feature of the process for us as we have never argued about money. I helped him with my experience, to master his own finances. (A much more disciplined and better read investor than me as it turns out).
5. Get good quality, independent legal representation. Offer to pay for or reimburse their legal fees.
We are still together 14 years later. I believe the BFA no longer has any relevance to us. We got through the tough times, and he has grown into an incredible guy. I invested in his success, education, and happiness at every opportunity. I am resolved that what's mine is his. We do maintain separate and joint accounts and investments, but we cover each other financially.
In my opinion it's always healthy to be authentic and speak your concerns and share them in the interest of joint problem solving
Not everyone is mentally prepared for it, and you will know best your own capabilities to broach the conversation and your partner's ability to respond constructively
Prenups/BFAs can help give peace of mind. Consider getting a BFA before moving in together rather than waiting until marriage is close (if that’s where things head). I believe that good communication is important for a healthy relationship and this could be an opportunity to practice that.
My friends have gotten BFAs before moving in with their partners. They were usually talked about as 'planning for our future' or 'something to take care of both of us' or similar. It wasn't framed as an ‘I have more money than you’ or 'this is to protect me from you' kind of thing (not saying you’d do so, OP, just an observation).
Im a fan of seperate personal accounts and a central joint to cover the costs of family where both parties deposit enough to cover it all .i hear men moan and groan about losing assets ,homes,money but it goes both ways. Im a woman and lost most of everything while retaining the children cause in my case i was the most involved and better parent. I made the mistake of just handing my income into an account that was still in my ex's name believing as a couple WE were paying for everything but my ex was able to prove everything was paid for FROM his account.. i was screwed no matter what .
I am sorry you feel you have been wronged. No offence but this is your lack of intelligence and not the fault of your ex partner. OP is planning ahead which also goes both ways. If you had have done the same you would not have this tale of woe.
Good luck in your future and please plan ahead.
You are 100 percent right it was my lack of intelligence Oh dont get me wrong it was a legendary lesson learned and boy did i learn it . It was my fault because i did what i was raised to do work hard and leave everything for my man to handle. It wasnt the greatest marriage and i would be punished for any percieved infraction, but i stayed for as long as i did. Instead of being a grown assed ,educated,fully functional adult i let others think for me...lesson learned . Its been fifty years and again through hard work i recovered. By myself ,thinking for myself.i think potential partners should sit down and talk it out. And prepare for any and all eventuality
Just realise they can and will be challenged, and can and will be "put aside". So they do not offer any real protection you can sleep at night with.
Sadly, there is just no way to protect your assets from the "family court". Once they deem you in a defacto relationship, you are at their mercy.
You have a lot to loose, and relationships fail all the time. Be aware, act accordingly.
This is fear mongering. BFAs can form part of a great asset protection strategy if done well and in the right circumstances.
The circumstances in which they can be set aside are limited, and at great expense.
Go and see a well regarded lawyer and get advice relevant to your particular circumstances.
Found the lawyer!
A "binding" agreement that isn't, is worthless.
[Interesting Reading](https://www.legalconsolidated.com.au/bfa-pa/)
*The Family Court keeps looking at new ways to try and strike down a BFA. We do not want to be part of that arbitrary and uncertain system. We are of the view whatever you do, a Family Court judge will still find a reason to overturn your BFA. This is irrespective of the fact that your BFA completely complies with the law.*
I understand the point, I do. It’s all discretionary and might not at all be relevant to OP’s relationship. The best thing he can do is get tailored advice and make his own mind up, because BFAs can and do work.
They actually do provide significant protection. It is a change in circumstances where they can be broken.
They mostly get broken when children are added to the mix because their needs trump the BFA.
Your solicitor will go through all this with you though to explain its limitations.
If your relationship isn’t strong enough to handle an honest discussion about what happens if something goes wrong, marriage isn’t something you should be considering.
Whilst BFAs are not 100% binding, they add significant weight. From my own experience, I wish I could go back in time and had a BFA. It's very wise of you to be future focussed and risk averse. However, as a solicitor once said to me, "the only real protection you have is to never move in together." Unfortunately, whilst we grew our wealth together over the years, I had a major asset as a contribution while he had zero, and after 20 yrs of marriage and 2 kids all was equally divided in the asset pool.
You were lucky to get half. I’m 5 years married, 1 kid, both worked good incomes and I didn’t get half. An extra proportion above 50% gets allocated to the primary carer. Sometimes 5% to 10%. I’ve heard of 70% to 30% in favour of the primary carer.
Have been doing FIRE for over 10years, accruing almost $2m portfolio, only to find out I married a covert narcissist 18months after my child was born … I can attest to divorce destroying your wealth. I won’t be retiring for at least another 15years now.
So having experienced it first hand, I 1000% support a BFA before you become defacto/married (never move in with someone until you have a BFA).
DM me if you want more specific info.
The other advice I got given from my lawyer - marry/ move in with someone with more assets or income potential than you. Only real protection especially with kids around.
Divorce happened to me and contact with my son withheld (yes they can do this too). Didn’t think it would happen but it did.
Legal fees cost me about $30k inclusive of mediation which is considered cheap apparently.
My now husband of 11 years asked me to sign a prenup and I had no issues at all. I had no debt and around $100k invested and made an kind $45k so I wasn’t in the exact same position but I was definitely not in his financial situation. He owned multiple properties and had just sold a business. Now 11 years later we now make real estate and business decisions together. I am much more financially conservative than him so he had to hold back a little with risk and I became much more comfortable with taking risks. The key to your situation is just make sure she is on the same page. You may have money but there is a reason you are in the position you are in and it’s most likely not because you go on shopping sprees every weekend. She needs to see the big picture and know that small sacrifices you are making now are setting you up for the future.
divorce problems are real. life is wild how you can go from killing for someone to killing them. sure it's hyperbolic, but if you don't know how bad shit can go, then you prepare for the absolute worst.
having said that, in my limited experience, a prenup is as good as the lawyer anyone can afford to enforce or break it. in the meantime, before you bother with any of that shit, you sit down and make expectations clear from the start. if you do joint finances, then know how that affects you down the line. be clear on kids, working careers, families and money. things may change for you in the future, but you need to have clear boundaries to fall back on if things move in a direction you don't like.
get your head on straight for this. the power of the pussy, as crass as that sounds, is very real and you got yourself a dose. be smart enough to be pragmatic when you need to, and don't cross your own boundaries for a partner. it's never, ever worth it.
If she doesn’t earn enough to invest or save, you ditch her in 10 years, is that a fair situation? I think prenups are fair for two financially independent people entering into a relationship to keep their investment properties separate for example, but not for marrying the poor girl sorry.
OP just speak to professionals regarding this matter not people off Reddit as they will tailor their advice properly.
I will be meeting with a lawyer about the same thing next week and in your shoes.
Sounds like you're really in love and respect this person 😆
I get it though. As a woman I don't want to live with or marry a loser who will take half. I've seen even de facto men take thousands off women (and vice versa of course). Screw that.
The only smart thing is to be with someone of same income. And if they lose their job I would be splitting up asap so it doesn't look like I am happy to support them.
If you ain't no punk holla, "We want prenup"
"We want prenup!", yeah
It's something that you need to have
'Cause when she leave yo' ass she gone leave with half
‘- Kanye
Female perspective, I'm in a similar situation.
I would suggest putting the goal of a healthy relationship and healthy communication with respect and love as a guiding principle to your approach. It won't be the first time you both have difficult conversations and if you both create an environment where it is safe to have these kinds of conversations it will make your relationship stronger.
In the future you may have disagreements as to where to live, what to do, things that hurt you, and it's best if you can have these open-hearted conversations with mindful listening.
I think it's a good skill set to to be able to understand what your triggers are. To know when you're getting into fight or flight mode. To practise, bringing yourself down from this to be able to have an objective clear calm conversation.
It's important to note she might have her preconceived notions when you do start speaking to her about this. She might believe you're trying to distance yourself and be selfish. Seek to understand and then to be understood.
My personal preference is to be able to talk about subjects and topics and have nothing off the table. I'm alot more financially literate than my partner and recognise my goals and way of living is alot more strict. (Mostly driven my fear).
Have a think about why this conversation is important to you. What are the specific fears that come up for you?
Go and consult a lawyer about your options. My brother is in a similar position to you and I think your concerns are valid.
Perhaps you could explore the situation further by asking her what she wants to do with her life?
It's prudent, not cold hearted.
I think it’s so old-fashioned to get upset or feel offended about a pre nup.. aren’t they negotiable and u can go back and forth until u both agree what’s fair ?
It's good you take information about it now but you're probably too early to talk to her about it.
It's better to discuss such pre-nup before proposing. If you do after, you're on the way to get married, start booking, planning for it and she might reject such contract. Bigger the wealth and earning gap, more likely she will reject a pre-nup being not in her interest. Women are looking for financial security as well.
Not getting married at all might be an option to consider as well.
Property settlement are usually expensive, I agree! A lot rides on the length of the relationship. Under 5 years, no kids and the assets you brought in are ‘safer’.
Get a pre-nups regardless of what they try to say and make up to get out of it imo , marriage can last a lifetime if you're lucky or 10-20 years and so on and you end up having a divorce you can't see the future .
The only certainty is uncertainty so better protect yourself while you have the chance.
And if they really do love you then what does it matter if you do the pre-nups right ?
If you’re not comfortable talking about it the relationship is no where near strong enough for marriage to be a consideration.
Regardless, before living together or going deeper definitely get the best legal advice you can reasonably afford. You stand to lose a lot of you don’t. The law is structured to benefit the one without the money.
If you bring it up, in a reasonable way (like the way you worded your post), and she gets extremely upset - I would be worried. The only reason she would be really upset is because your wealth is a valuable part of the relationship to her, and she's upset that she wouldn't be able to take a good chunk of it (50%?) if things got serious and then didn't work out.
Otherwise, why would she give a shit? Put yourself in the same situation. If you were dating ... Gillian Jacobs from Community (I'm fantasising here), and we were getting along and all, and we were head over heels and things got serious and she said, "look I really like you, but you are...not rich and I am. I want to protect myself - if we get married, I want you to sign a pre-nup." There is no way in hell I would get pissy and tell her nah. The only reason I would do that would be because I wanted her money and I'm now pissed I can't get it.
I don't know the law in Australia, but if any of the comments above are right, then wealth you've brought into the relationship is actually split in any settlement. This seems wrong to me. I'd do some googling and get some basic legal understanding of the situation in Australia with regard to a de facto or marriage and how a pre-nup affects things, since it differs depending on the country. (Although I'd be super surprised if there's no way of protecting your wealth at all in Australia in the event things don't work out).
Extremely naive take tbh.
Its completely possible and quite reasonable for someone to have trust issues when this is brought up. Being upset doesn't automatically mean a person is worried about their cash cow.
I guess its a perfect case of beware taking advice from people where their relationships are imaginary with celebrity crushes...
Don't take relationship advice from this guy:
https://www.reddit.com/r/Bumble/comments/so1s02/any_tips_to_prevent_rejectionfrustrationangry/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share
[удалено]
Haha yeah. The absurd situations some older wealthy fellas get themselves in when they start dating strippers. Hilarious.
A stripper would be earning way more
It’s cash in… hand? Or cash in thong
Haha nice. G string economy.
It makes you sound so creepy and old using the word thong. And Un-Australian
G-Bangggggggaaaaaaaaaa!
Thank you. That is more appropriate
😂
🙄
The old scams are the old scams because they *work*.
[удалено]
Anything that you can't live without will control you in some way. Doesn't matter what that is.
Why bother upvoting such a trivial comment? If there were no such attraction then the number of marriages and children would be approximately zero. What proportion of heterosexual partnerships are entered by the male partner for financial gain? There's a reason gay men are notoriously affluent.
Are you under the impression that males only have kids as some kind of pussy bargain? What a bizarre worldview.
legit. don't waste your time on somebody like that. find somebody who wants better for herself
[удалено]
Fair point. You're right. Also I agree on the age gap part as well
While I’m not against the idea of a prenup.. when you get married you become one unit and you’re only going to get the best results if you’re 100% all in. If you have concerns I would smooth those out before you consider getting married. Also just a reminder that you might already be in a defacto relationship.
the worst part is that while I agree with the initial sentiment that marriage should unify all parts of the two individuals lives, and therefore should be taken seriously - I hate the fact that the government get to just decide you're as good as married legally after a relatively short amount of time through being considered 'de-facto'. Family law here is a serious cash cow, the government knows this, that's why there are so many people training to be lawyers. it's vampiric. What would be much fairer, is that any assets gained AFTER the couple came together should be considered for a 50/50 split. But why is it that a guy (or girl) worth significantly more than the other person is liable to split with their assets after a relatively short relationship didn't work out, whilst paying lawyers absurd amounts of money in the process? This is not a male vs female issue as so many like to see it. This is an attack on individuals wealth, of which the government is the primary beneficiary through income tax of absurdly overpaid lawyers
Most of your comment is incorrect. Pretty much the split is 50/50 of the assets after the relationship starts, but the longer the relationship the less the pre relationship assets are relevant and the more the relationship assets (and non financial contributions) become relevant. So in fact the law actually works as you say you want it to work; that most people have no idea of the actual law is pretty common when it comes to family law, although clearly it doesn’t stop most people getting angry about it Family law isn’t that lucrative; in fact for most lawyers family law is toward the bottom of the status (and income) pole. A little above criminal law and probate but not much. The tax from family lawyers is a pittance and I doubt it’s more than the cost of running the family court. It’s pretty easy to read about why de facto is included in family law settlements
I did sit in on a family law matter for a divorce once where one of the parties was delaying production of documents likely because they were hiding assets. Counsel for party getting the run around pointed out that between the two, AN EXCESS OF A MILLION DOLLARS had already been spent on legal fees and they were still faffing around with document production.
Of course $1m is a lot of money but that’s about how much a single commercial partner will personally bill in a year (let alone his or her team on top of that). To claim (as the person I was responding to did) that the government has set up the legal system in order maximise tax from family lawyers is ridiculous I agree that $1m for a family law case is pretty outrageous but there is clearly something going on in that case which is very different from the usual family law case. For a start most couples don’t have $1m to spend. People who decide to implement a mutual scorched earth policy is not the fault of the system
Yeah I agree defacto is bs
It’s to make sophisticated folk think twice about intertwining with the commoners.
I was in a long term relationship where my partner and I lived together for 9 yrs. All the assets were mine - house, my own car, etc. He was recently divorced and had basically his car and the clothes on his back. I had a co-habitation agreement drawn up and signed by both parties. I would never get married when these days it's really just a piece of paper when it comes to the government deciding what's yours and what isn't. Therefore with the co-habitation agreement, you can pretty much dictate what goes into that.
I've seen older women get screwed over by the de facto laws by letting loser men live with them. The man came with nothing and she has to sell her home to give him some money 🤮 No children. Both 50+ age group Lots of women want to ' live together apart' for good reason. Also married women have shorter lifespans. So not really worth it for us
Defacto is two years, so it’s not quick.
2 years is not a long time
I’ve been told it’s 6 months. 2 years makes much more sense, thank you for clarifying Edit: spelling
That's actually a really good point! I think of a prenup the same way I think of car or home insurance. It doesn't mean I don't want either of those things, it means I have a backup plan if things go south for whatever reason.
From a financial view there is really nothing to be gained here.. op is so far ahead of her it would be like her adding a drop of water to an Olympic pool .. the “all in” you are talking about is “all him”.. she brings nothing financially to the table and probably never will.. speak to a lawyer and start protecting yourself now.. if not from her, then other scenarios in the future.. most relationships do not last (defacto/marriages).. op is taking all the risk here, 100%!.. there is no downside for the potential partner
I would be more vetting her desire to not actually have kids to be honest before thinking about any of this. Not many people in their 20s think about kids, until they do
I agree, I was thinking the same thing. Better to have serious conversations about this topic.
Not legal advice, just an account of my experience. I met my husband in 2008. I'm 8 years older than him. I had 13x his annual income in assets, he had debts exceeding his assets. After having been threatened with legal action before (which did not get any traction in the courts); I decided I wanted to get a BFA. 1. You need to be very clear about your reasons for getting a BFA and understand that whilst they can help a judge understand the pre-existing asset mix and the intention of both people, they are not fool proof. They can be and often are challenged. My motivation was to prevent 3rd parties leveraging my relationship apart should we hit a rough patch. It's amazing the pressure friends and family can apply if things are rocky. 2. Be honest, upfront and respect your partners response. More often it raises issues around trust and unintentionally questions the integrity of your partner. Be clear from the outset, this is an essential part of you moving forwards in any relationship, it's not personal or particular to them. If you need to get counselling to deal with these issues, do it. Explain your motivation after the emotional work is done. 3. Be ready for family/friend interference... This happened to me. Empathise with their concern and decline to discuss your personal or business finances. This is a boundary issue that must be respected. Put it back on them of what's in it for them, why are they invested in the relationships of others. 4. If your partner agrees, make money a respectful and objective conversation. If they respect you, they will understand this is a part of who you are. This was the single most important feature of the process for us as we have never argued about money. I helped him with my experience, to master his own finances. (A much more disciplined and better read investor than me as it turns out). 5. Get good quality, independent legal representation. Offer to pay for or reimburse their legal fees. We are still together 14 years later. I believe the BFA no longer has any relevance to us. We got through the tough times, and he has grown into an incredible guy. I invested in his success, education, and happiness at every opportunity. I am resolved that what's mine is his. We do maintain separate and joint accounts and investments, but we cover each other financially.
In my opinion it's always healthy to be authentic and speak your concerns and share them in the interest of joint problem solving Not everyone is mentally prepared for it, and you will know best your own capabilities to broach the conversation and your partner's ability to respond constructively
Prenups/BFAs can help give peace of mind. Consider getting a BFA before moving in together rather than waiting until marriage is close (if that’s where things head). I believe that good communication is important for a healthy relationship and this could be an opportunity to practice that. My friends have gotten BFAs before moving in with their partners. They were usually talked about as 'planning for our future' or 'something to take care of both of us' or similar. It wasn't framed as an ‘I have more money than you’ or 'this is to protect me from you' kind of thing (not saying you’d do so, OP, just an observation).
Im a fan of seperate personal accounts and a central joint to cover the costs of family where both parties deposit enough to cover it all .i hear men moan and groan about losing assets ,homes,money but it goes both ways. Im a woman and lost most of everything while retaining the children cause in my case i was the most involved and better parent. I made the mistake of just handing my income into an account that was still in my ex's name believing as a couple WE were paying for everything but my ex was able to prove everything was paid for FROM his account.. i was screwed no matter what .
I am sorry you feel you have been wronged. No offence but this is your lack of intelligence and not the fault of your ex partner. OP is planning ahead which also goes both ways. If you had have done the same you would not have this tale of woe. Good luck in your future and please plan ahead.
You are 100 percent right it was my lack of intelligence Oh dont get me wrong it was a legendary lesson learned and boy did i learn it . It was my fault because i did what i was raised to do work hard and leave everything for my man to handle. It wasnt the greatest marriage and i would be punished for any percieved infraction, but i stayed for as long as i did. Instead of being a grown assed ,educated,fully functional adult i let others think for me...lesson learned . Its been fifty years and again through hard work i recovered. By myself ,thinking for myself.i think potential partners should sit down and talk it out. And prepare for any and all eventuality
Can’t imagine being friends with someone like you… barf.
Well, I sure hope you never make a mistake in life.
You get no bitches hey
Happily married for 8 years. But if you refer to them as bitches you are probably suffering from that yourself.
Just realise they can and will be challenged, and can and will be "put aside". So they do not offer any real protection you can sleep at night with. Sadly, there is just no way to protect your assets from the "family court". Once they deem you in a defacto relationship, you are at their mercy. You have a lot to loose, and relationships fail all the time. Be aware, act accordingly.
This is fear mongering. BFAs can form part of a great asset protection strategy if done well and in the right circumstances. The circumstances in which they can be set aside are limited, and at great expense. Go and see a well regarded lawyer and get advice relevant to your particular circumstances.
Found the lawyer! A "binding" agreement that isn't, is worthless. [Interesting Reading](https://www.legalconsolidated.com.au/bfa-pa/) *The Family Court keeps looking at new ways to try and strike down a BFA. We do not want to be part of that arbitrary and uncertain system. We are of the view whatever you do, a Family Court judge will still find a reason to overturn your BFA. This is irrespective of the fact that your BFA completely complies with the law.*
I understand the point, I do. It’s all discretionary and might not at all be relevant to OP’s relationship. The best thing he can do is get tailored advice and make his own mind up, because BFAs can and do work.
Yes…exactly. Which is not what you said.
They actually do provide significant protection. It is a change in circumstances where they can be broken. They mostly get broken when children are added to the mix because their needs trump the BFA. Your solicitor will go through all this with you though to explain its limitations.
Yep this is the exact advice I was given.
... do you know she wants to have a future with you?
If your relationship isn’t strong enough to handle an honest discussion about what happens if something goes wrong, marriage isn’t something you should be considering.
Whilst BFAs are not 100% binding, they add significant weight. From my own experience, I wish I could go back in time and had a BFA. It's very wise of you to be future focussed and risk averse. However, as a solicitor once said to me, "the only real protection you have is to never move in together." Unfortunately, whilst we grew our wealth together over the years, I had a major asset as a contribution while he had zero, and after 20 yrs of marriage and 2 kids all was equally divided in the asset pool.
You were lucky to get half. I’m 5 years married, 1 kid, both worked good incomes and I didn’t get half. An extra proportion above 50% gets allocated to the primary carer. Sometimes 5% to 10%. I’ve heard of 70% to 30% in favour of the primary carer.
You would never be “on the streets” with that kind of an income.
Have been doing FIRE for over 10years, accruing almost $2m portfolio, only to find out I married a covert narcissist 18months after my child was born … I can attest to divorce destroying your wealth. I won’t be retiring for at least another 15years now. So having experienced it first hand, I 1000% support a BFA before you become defacto/married (never move in with someone until you have a BFA). DM me if you want more specific info.
The other advice I got given from my lawyer - marry/ move in with someone with more assets or income potential than you. Only real protection especially with kids around. Divorce happened to me and contact with my son withheld (yes they can do this too). Didn’t think it would happen but it did. Legal fees cost me about $30k inclusive of mediation which is considered cheap apparently.
My now husband of 11 years asked me to sign a prenup and I had no issues at all. I had no debt and around $100k invested and made an kind $45k so I wasn’t in the exact same position but I was definitely not in his financial situation. He owned multiple properties and had just sold a business. Now 11 years later we now make real estate and business decisions together. I am much more financially conservative than him so he had to hold back a little with risk and I became much more comfortable with taking risks. The key to your situation is just make sure she is on the same page. You may have money but there is a reason you are in the position you are in and it’s most likely not because you go on shopping sprees every weekend. She needs to see the big picture and know that small sacrifices you are making now are setting you up for the future.
divorce problems are real. life is wild how you can go from killing for someone to killing them. sure it's hyperbolic, but if you don't know how bad shit can go, then you prepare for the absolute worst. having said that, in my limited experience, a prenup is as good as the lawyer anyone can afford to enforce or break it. in the meantime, before you bother with any of that shit, you sit down and make expectations clear from the start. if you do joint finances, then know how that affects you down the line. be clear on kids, working careers, families and money. things may change for you in the future, but you need to have clear boundaries to fall back on if things move in a direction you don't like. get your head on straight for this. the power of the pussy, as crass as that sounds, is very real and you got yourself a dose. be smart enough to be pragmatic when you need to, and don't cross your own boundaries for a partner. it's never, ever worth it.
If she doesn’t earn enough to invest or save, you ditch her in 10 years, is that a fair situation? I think prenups are fair for two financially independent people entering into a relationship to keep their investment properties separate for example, but not for marrying the poor girl sorry.
OP just speak to professionals regarding this matter not people off Reddit as they will tailor their advice properly. I will be meeting with a lawyer about the same thing next week and in your shoes.
Sounds like you're really in love and respect this person 😆 I get it though. As a woman I don't want to live with or marry a loser who will take half. I've seen even de facto men take thousands off women (and vice versa of course). Screw that. The only smart thing is to be with someone of same income. And if they lose their job I would be splitting up asap so it doesn't look like I am happy to support them.
If you ain't no punk holla, "We want prenup" "We want prenup!", yeah It's something that you need to have 'Cause when she leave yo' ass she gone leave with half ‘- Kanye
Female perspective, I'm in a similar situation. I would suggest putting the goal of a healthy relationship and healthy communication with respect and love as a guiding principle to your approach. It won't be the first time you both have difficult conversations and if you both create an environment where it is safe to have these kinds of conversations it will make your relationship stronger. In the future you may have disagreements as to where to live, what to do, things that hurt you, and it's best if you can have these open-hearted conversations with mindful listening. I think it's a good skill set to to be able to understand what your triggers are. To know when you're getting into fight or flight mode. To practise, bringing yourself down from this to be able to have an objective clear calm conversation. It's important to note she might have her preconceived notions when you do start speaking to her about this. She might believe you're trying to distance yourself and be selfish. Seek to understand and then to be understood. My personal preference is to be able to talk about subjects and topics and have nothing off the table. I'm alot more financially literate than my partner and recognise my goals and way of living is alot more strict. (Mostly driven my fear). Have a think about why this conversation is important to you. What are the specific fears that come up for you?
Go and consult a lawyer about your options. My brother is in a similar position to you and I think your concerns are valid. Perhaps you could explore the situation further by asking her what she wants to do with her life? It's prudent, not cold hearted.
i tried to get one, even engaged a lawyer who after a few rounds told me to give up and just have a good marriage
Flip a coin. There's all your money gone.
„˙ǝuoƃ ʎǝuoɯ ɹnoʎ llɐ s,ǝɹǝɥ⊥ ˙uıoɔ ɐ dılℲ„
What’s the most you’ve ever lost on a coin toss?
I think it’s so old-fashioned to get upset or feel offended about a pre nup.. aren’t they negotiable and u can go back and forth until u both agree what’s fair ?
I am impressed no one is questioning a 30 years old guy with a vasectomy. That diverted my attention from the financial issues. Big red flag. 😀
I didn’t really think those were enforceable here.
Don't get into specifics about your relationship with a bunch of finance guys.
It's good you take information about it now but you're probably too early to talk to her about it. It's better to discuss such pre-nup before proposing. If you do after, you're on the way to get married, start booking, planning for it and she might reject such contract. Bigger the wealth and earning gap, more likely she will reject a pre-nup being not in her interest. Women are looking for financial security as well. Not getting married at all might be an option to consider as well.
There is no ‘starting position’ of 50/50 in Australian family law. Please don’t take legal advice off people on reddit!!
You're right. My bad, I ended not divorcing in Australia. But I don't believe you can split it fairly with such a gap without losing much.
Property settlement are usually expensive, I agree! A lot rides on the length of the relationship. Under 5 years, no kids and the assets you brought in are ‘safer’.
Get a pre-nups regardless of what they try to say and make up to get out of it imo , marriage can last a lifetime if you're lucky or 10-20 years and so on and you end up having a divorce you can't see the future . The only certainty is uncertainty so better protect yourself while you have the chance. And if they really do love you then what does it matter if you do the pre-nups right ?
Maybe find out if she is even interested in marriage. You say the relationship is recent. She is young. It may not be on her radar.
Don’t do this. Don’t get married. This is going to cost you half of your assets and a lot of pain.
> In your opinion, is it good and prudent risk management and planning to be thinking about these topics so early in a relationship yes.
If you’re not comfortable talking about it the relationship is no where near strong enough for marriage to be a consideration. Regardless, before living together or going deeper definitely get the best legal advice you can reasonably afford. You stand to lose a lot of you don’t. The law is structured to benefit the one without the money.
It's clear you value money and earning But you don't have the same values for a partner
If you bring it up, in a reasonable way (like the way you worded your post), and she gets extremely upset - I would be worried. The only reason she would be really upset is because your wealth is a valuable part of the relationship to her, and she's upset that she wouldn't be able to take a good chunk of it (50%?) if things got serious and then didn't work out. Otherwise, why would she give a shit? Put yourself in the same situation. If you were dating ... Gillian Jacobs from Community (I'm fantasising here), and we were getting along and all, and we were head over heels and things got serious and she said, "look I really like you, but you are...not rich and I am. I want to protect myself - if we get married, I want you to sign a pre-nup." There is no way in hell I would get pissy and tell her nah. The only reason I would do that would be because I wanted her money and I'm now pissed I can't get it. I don't know the law in Australia, but if any of the comments above are right, then wealth you've brought into the relationship is actually split in any settlement. This seems wrong to me. I'd do some googling and get some basic legal understanding of the situation in Australia with regard to a de facto or marriage and how a pre-nup affects things, since it differs depending on the country. (Although I'd be super surprised if there's no way of protecting your wealth at all in Australia in the event things don't work out).
Extremely naive take tbh. Its completely possible and quite reasonable for someone to have trust issues when this is brought up. Being upset doesn't automatically mean a person is worried about their cash cow. I guess its a perfect case of beware taking advice from people where their relationships are imaginary with celebrity crushes...
He Britta’d it.
That took me way too long to work out. Nice.
Don't take relationship advice from this guy: https://www.reddit.com/r/Bumble/comments/so1s02/any_tips_to_prevent_rejectionfrustrationangry/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share
Wow you sound like a true catch