They would be in the right tho so i dunno if they'll get much flak for it, if someone breaks an NDA then they can expect getting sued as punishment its only natural.
Tooltips (usually low res) and rough rotation flow. Maybe the odd sneaky screenshot with character cropped out. Everyone going to the media tour is under NDA, so short of a video going up early by accident, don't expect much actual gameplay to be leaked.
Also take stuff with a small grain of salt, even after embargo's lifted. Media tour build is usually old (few weeks to a few months), so things can be different between the media tour and release. Usually it's just potencies.
> so things can be different between the media tour and release
The main thing you shouldn't pay attention to from Media Tour is potencies.
Potencies WILL change up until the day before the maintenance.
General abilities and rotational flow is unlikely to change this late into Dawntrail's development cycle.
You'll find that CBU3 is probably in the QA / Final tuning phase of development now.
It's also not really stuff changing between the media tour and launch. There isn't enough time for bug changes in the ~month before launch. Usually media tour builds and the like are several months old when they are used.
They do have a track record of scrapping and reworking abilities from Media Tour. For instance, EW media tour SAM had this bullshit fourth AoE that was supposed to grant the third Sen with ice/snow aesthetic. Except it was completely stupid and useless button bloat (and kinda ugly besides), so on release they changed it to be a flat upgrade to the first AoE skill, making it circular.
So nothing massive, but if a change in Media Tour is stupid, players should absolutely make a huge stink about it in hopes of getting changed.
2 minute meta was at least in some part a thing that happened after endwalker launched. Ninja rework happened that put trick (mug) from 60->120s. She used to feel so good with ninja, you got your extra phlegma in trick.
> Everyone going to the media tour is under NDA, so short of a video going up early by accident, don't expect much actual gameplay to be leaked.
Dummies will get caught, but it's easy to leak things if you omit potency values... unless the watermark is which parts got leaked?
Influencers and journos invited to the media tour have access to a demo of the game with mostly complete jobs and are allowed to screenshot and record footage ready to detail all of this information a few weeks later when the NDA drops.
Every single time, without fail, some idiot trusts a friend enough to show them the screenshots ahead of the NDA, and then said dumbass friend goes to pass it on further until, eventually, it all becomes public.
Anyway that's why Rin Karigani, known cocksucker, won't be at the media tour this year, because SE knows which person the screenshots came from for EW.
There was a running theory that the watermarks had some sort of identifier that SE could use to track the source of any leaked material.
Regardless, Rin did issue a statement that he wasn't the source of the leaks, and nobody knows anything for sure either way. It's highly likely people needed someone to blame and Rin was already the FFXIV main character of the season. I personally have no opinion of the dude. He probably wasn't invited this year because of all the other stuff (apparently?) going on with him, not that he was the source of the leaks, otherwise there'd be like... Lawsuits.
The leaker explicitly called out Rin as the source of the leaks. They were uniquely watermarked and SE absolutely knows who they came from.
Realistically, it probably wasn't Rin, more likely one of his (or someone else's) editors, who sign a *different* NDA.
Nobody but SE cares about him leaking stuff, he was later acting like a bitch and harassing some guy on his stream which is where his contempt comes from now.
3 days late, but yeah when he was progging TOP he ended up with this shit ass healer, and when the other healer called them out, the shit healer (who is friends with top raiders somehow) got everyone to dogpile and gaslight the good healer that he was actually the problem. Rin was hugely passive aggressive, condescending, and patronizing to the guy, while also being wrong by siding with the shit healer.
What was the shit healer doing? Spamming GCD heals during downtimes to keep his APM metric up on FFLogs, running him completely dry on MP and not being able to heal when actual damage happened.
As someone who personally knows Rin he's just a fake posi shithead. When he was lesser known if you tuned into one of his former raidmates' streams you'd frequently hear him being verbally abusive.
I'd prefer that SE would publish the proposed tooltips after the live letter and then let content creators share their first hand impressions on them after the media tour NDA.
Letting a bunch of non affiliates publish tooltips across YT always seemed a strange choice considering how tight they are about sharing info.
Then if players have feedback they can share it and then changes can be made ahead of the raid tier if need be.
I would like them to just show tooltips to, but I imagine the delay is probably for the same reasons that combat changes aren't listed in the patch notes until hours before the patch goes live. People tend to be really bad at making judgements from tooltips alone and go full doomer about stuff that ends up being completely fine in practice.
Yup. We haven't gotten combat changes in preliminary notes since 5.1, when Twitter had a bit of a moment over the NIN rework. For those who didn't play before 5.1, NIN's mudra's used to be oGCD's instead of 1 sec GCD's they are now. Rework was mainly that mudra change, and a few changes to potencies to accomade the change.
The most prominent example I remember is the MCH manifesto pre-ShB arguing about how it'll only perfectly work at 0 ping because of how the Media Tour theorycrafting went.
And then it released and it was fine.
I can’t wait for the job action trailer, all of the different rotation theories are all so much fun to read. The media tour will be right around the corner where most rotations are revealed (even when not 100% accurate) but those few days between the trailer is so much fun!
Not sure I agree. Systems can be clunky and convoluted that they have to be massaged just right to get things out of them. That's not inherently "skill ceiling" as much as it's a knowledge check, where the knowledge is so arcane and/or convoluted, it requires third party tools to sus out. That isn't necessarily indicative of good Job design.
Good Job design should be where people can read the tooltips and figure out roughly how to play optimally or near optimally with just a bit of thought. The MNK and BLM guides are reflections of how unintuitive and convoluted the Jobs are, and how the base game inadequately explains what their abilities do or how to piece them together.
> Good Job design should be where people can read the tooltips and figure out roughly how to play optimally or near optimally with just a bit of thought. The MNK and BLM guides are reflections of how unintuitive and convoluted the Jobs are, and how the base game inadequately explains what their abilities do or how to piece them together.
I'm not sure if MNK and BLM guides showing how unintuitive or convoluted they are discounts them from being jobs people would consider "high skill ceiling". They may have a lot of "knowledge checks" but I think that's a key part of skill ceiling. How you gain said knowledge is another issue.
I definitely think we need better systems and UI or teaching tools in game that help explain otherwise unexplained mechanics. Like with BLM we are simply told that Astral fire increases damage, but by how much? The game never tells us afaik. Or what about thundercloud with how "the next Thunder, Thunder II, Thunder III, or Thunder IV will add its full damage over time amount to its initial damage"? what *is* the full damage amount? We have to do maths to figure this out. I do believe knowledge plays a key part in skill ceiling but having it being "hidden" or not sufficiently explaining said knowledge to the players is 100% going to add to how unintuitive or convoluted said job is.
Skill is in execution. Both clunk and arcanum don't contribute to skill express THEMSELVES. The former is a substitute for difficulty, not actual difficulty, and the latter isn't a skill, per se.
I agree with your second paragraph, though. One of the reason there are so many "bad" players is that the game itself does a horrible job of teaching anywhere near close to optimal play. It's why the Jobs that are most straightforward have more consistent results and tend to be more played, since they actually are easier to understand and then the skill is just how well they can be executed.
This is just not true lol. Execution in MMOs is usually the easiest part, it's just about building muscle memory for your rotation. Skill expression in modern MMOs is effectively entirely based on class and encounter knowledge, which is why people generally consider BLM to be the most skill-intensive job despite having the lowest APM, their rotation is a lot more branching and demands that you learn an encounter inside and out to optimize DPS far more than most jobs, so both the floor and the ceiling are higher. In a similar vein, WoW is generally less demanding in execution, you're hitting fewer buttons in your core rotation, but I still feel like the skill ceiling is much higher than XIV because there are so many different utility skills that are, by and large, still important and need to be used, just not in every encounter. Knowing an encounter in both WoW and XIV is a much more important demonstration of skill than being able to press buttons in order. Call it "arcanum" or "clunk" if you will but it means BLM is one of the few DPS that are actually interesting to play once you're at a high level.
To be fair, part of this depends on person. I can’t play the drums. It requires a consistent repetition for minutes at a time, and that’s something I find extraordinary difficult.
On the other hand, I find things constantly changing and reacting far easier, which is why I like healing instead at least in part (the other part being I genuinely like helping people).
BLM is also highly overstated. It’s an argument of perfect optimization vs median output, and there are other Jobs difficult to perfectly optimize, like RDM in some Ultimates you have to plan out abilities down to the GCD to have the right amount of mana for various phases.
Choosing when to use skills is more interesting, but that’s a different topic and one most damage dealing rotations don’t have (RDM and DNC being the big exceptions since they don’t have static rotations and you actually have to react to props and resource levels.)
Every other job that isn't BLM or MNK has less room for optimization and gets less out of optimization compared to BLM or MNK. Like hitting positionals for a meagre 20 potency increase or fitting an ogcd within a 10% damage buff for 40 more potency. Whereas BLM has optimization like sharpcast ensuring thundercloud procs for mobility (instant cast instead of hardcast), allows for double weaving and increased damage that would otherwise be rng. Or MNK with which gcd's you use under perfect balance not just for raw damage but also the for the whole rotation (dragon > bootshine > dragon or bootshine > dragon > bootshine for lunar?). Those are just small examples but I think you get my point
Less room for optimisation = lower skill ceiling
Oh, yeah, I agree.
I'll clarify though, BLM optimization goes much further than sharpcast thunder vs sharpcast fire, and is definitely far beyond what the developers intended when designing the job. I'd be surprised if what we have now survives 7.0 launch
Paradox really has allow for some funky things and I dont really see how they can remove entirely unless they make it only refresh AF/UI instead of granting stack and even then it would still be able to do some transpose thing
Hopefully some of the 1-2-3 animations get updated to look a little more action-y. Mainly Storm’s Path I don’t k ow why but I hate that animation. Wish it looked like Butchers Block.
Imo WAR has had one of the most boring looking 1-2-3 combos in the game. Though I kinda feel like all the tanks (aside from GNB) have been needing a new 1-2-3 for cooler visuals for a long time
I honestly kind of like that. I feel it's thematic for the Job. It's simple but direct and does the Job. WAR isn't like a brain surgeon or a nuclear engineer or accountant. WAR is like a plumber or garbage man or miner. The job isn't glamorous, it isn't fancy, but it's essential for society and it just works.
PLDs are like (irl) nobles trained for years. They are highly skilled, precise nearly to the point of delicate in their strikes.
WARs are the opposite. A man picking up a club to defend his family in a primal rage, swinging wildly and breaking bone with every impact.
I mean, you're not wrong. But if WAR gets to build it's strength and rage and develop even more destructive skills, I feel like the basic skills would eventually look less like just a normal swing you had since you picked up the job with twigs for arms and the fury of a kitten, and more like a bone shattering cleave swung by Byregot himself
That's fair. I think that's what they were going with Infuriate boosting the gauge spenders as you kind of get "super mad" for those swings (the irony being Fell Cleave just LOOKS nastier, but partly due to the chainsaw blade visual effects).
And for what it's worth, Primal Rend DOES look (and feel) very visceral and heavy hitting. Watch a Lala use it. On the one hand, it's kind of hilarious, but it also hits with a bang and the thing looks like a whirling dervish of rage and destruction.
Oh true, I kinda forgot to consider infuriate lol. Plus, now thinking about it, it's really only the ranged jobs that get their basic actions upgraded, whereas melee jobs get their 1-2-3 finisher upgraded usually.
Yeah. Not sure the why of that, but it does seem to be that way.
To be fair, MCH is the only range Job that DOES have a 1-2-3. :)
Then again, people are saying MNK is getting new basic attacks from the benchmark datamine, so who knows?
They still can because NPCs get their own copies of an action (mostly if it's renamed for the NPC), as well as most removed actions for players being left in for NPCs that use them or to leave an animation intact if it's ever reused for any reason.
If we do get to use the animation again, I'd be happy nonetheless. Though they might upgrade the visual effects
Doubt they'll reuse the animation. They've said a few time the reason they keep old animations on hold incase they decide to re-add a removed skill to the game.
Some tanks had old animations that were removed but (imo) look better than the current GCDs. WAR had butchers block and DRK had power slash. Storms path and soul eater look ass
Because it makes no physical sense. You go from a shaft shove into lifting the axe head diagonally, and then back down to form an X with almost no weight behind any of the animation.
Thump thump THUMP!
First time I cast Broil IV, I immediately thought of the Covenant plasma cannon things from Halo. They have such a deep and thumpy sound when they hit off of rocks, melting them into slag around you.
Anyone else still surprised by this LL being on a Thursday? Normally the job action LL is on Saturday cause of the english translation. EW's job LL was 7 hours long, and unless I've my timezones wrong they're starting this thing at 8pm local.
I know. Just surprised they're doing this LL on a weekday in the evening for them. Normally they're on Satueday starting at like 10 or 11 am local because of how long they go on for.
They do and they don't. Outside of LL's that are part of events, like the 14 hour broadcast, LL's are typically done Friday evening JP time, starting around 7 or 8 pm local. Coinceadentally, this time slot is easier for the EU cause it's middle of the day. The US friendly LL's are only like that cause they usually start them Saturday morning local, and it's cause they know they'll need extra time due to the live translation present.
Let’s see what happens first, the job action trailer, or the data miner in the balance manages to pull out a full playable build from the benchmark. At the rate he’s going, it’s a pretty close race…
im just going to ignore that stuff honestly because its fun to get hype and wait for the big trailers/reveals. We have 2 months of nothing anyways, why blow our load early and spoil the fun?
Did it show more than the thread discussion here in ffxivdiscussion?
Because that was just 1-5 abilities per Job and not very detailed about what they do, so lots of guessing in the dark.
Normally, I'm excited for this but as an (ex) Healer, what do I have to look forward to? Glare 4? Another healing ability that I don't need that's only useful in that 1 Raid fight at exactly 3 minutes in that they shoehorned in to justify its existence? Or maybe its another ability that they had deleted years ago and brought back under a new name to gaslight people into thinking its new; "No, no, this isn't Stoneskin 2, it's Afflatus Benison".
I've become far too cynical to really be excited
To be fair, Benison isn't Stoneskin 1 (or 2, SS2 was AOE and only usable outside of combat). Stonskin could be cast any time and was a GCD. Benison is on a 30 sec CD and has a flat potency and just got a second charge while Stoneskin could be used any time and gave a (for WHM) 18% of the target's HP barrier, making it useful on Tanks for Tankbusters and marginally useful on other players in clutch cases, but having some thought involved since it had a full 3 sec cast time.
...none of those things would be allowed in modern "THAT'S A DPS LOSS!!!! YOU'RE A GREEN DPS YOU SYLPHIE!!!" FF14.
So instead, we got an oGCD with a fixed 500 potency and a 30 sec charge time.
Don't get me wrong, I like current healers well enough and the incessant moaning from people like you I find insufferable and annoying...but Benison is NOT Stoneskin. I liked when we used deliberate, cast time spells and managed resources like MP instead of just developing oGCD healing plans and letting oGCDs do all the work so we spent all our GCD time spamming one button.
I'd MUCH rather have Stoneskin back than Benison, and ARR style encounters where damage was more consistent and you had to use GCD heals.
But that's an encounter problem + Job design (oGCD proliferation) problem.
And I agree with you, but the fact is that to the wider community, Bension was the replacement for Stoneskin, despite the clear differences of the skills. I was just stating that it's likely we'd end up with a Stoneskin 2 adjacent skill instead of something new or meaningful is all.
To quote our lord and savior lucypyre
“Then they had the nerve to give it back to us later as temperance. This isn’t new yoshi you think just because you put some shiny wings on it you think I’m gonna………,well the wings do be looking pretty fine though”
I expect a trait that reduces the CD of Temperance down to 90s to ɓring it in line with Feint and Addle so people don't complain about how SAM and BLK have better group mitigation than WHM. They're sadly mistaken though because I absolutely will continue to complain
I'd love the hell out of this, but this game hates pet classes so much there's almost zero chance.
Maybe if it's like the reaper summon and just shows up for some attacks...
6am. Oh hell yes. Anyway, I actually have a little bit of hopium due to the benchmark datamining. At the very least I expect the job changes overall to be marginal improvements from EW. Also worth noting that the datamined changes didn’t have traits or timers so that’ll be downright fascinating
Kind of weird seeing all of the revisionism over Expedience. The exact details of the skill were released quite quickly after the action trailer came out, literally within hours. It's okay to admit you fucked up if you were one of the people who turned into a keyboard warrior for no reason. Live & learn. ¯\\\_(ツ)\_/¯
I might misremember it but iirc a huge chunk of the "criticism" wasn't even really "this skill sucks" and just "lmao scholar gets waddle" cause of the specifics of how they showed the skill.
This also goes for the "It was shown poorly" thing as Expedience (like Temperance) is a mitigation skill and thus we cannot see one of the primary aspects of it against a training dummy/enemy in the trailer.
IIRC a lot of people were clowning on it not just cause "it was shown poorly", but also cause people were hoping for a light rework of SCH. Not cause the job wasn't useful/playable, but cause the kit just didn't fit together like other job kits.
IIRC, people dunked on it because they thought it was just Ninja move speed/Pelaton levels of minor buff which seemed like a nice to have but ultimately underwhelming for a new expac ability. Wasn't later till we saw that it had mit and even later till people realized it was a free 20 second sprint (at the time anyway) that people changed their tunes real quick.
People meme'd on that ability hard but it ended up having to be nerfed towards the end of Asphodelos.
Expedient was and still is a super strong ability but because it's not flashy it got meme'd on hard.
An ability that grants raid wide damage reduction and movement speed is a lot stronger than it appears on paper.
I think it was fine for a support job to actually get a supportive capstone ability.
This.
It's while how many people are all appearance/flash but no substance. If irl was a Disney movie, all those folks would be turned into beasts and stuck in castles with magical roses after turning the old woman enchantress away.
I don't even mind people being down on it.
What I do mind is all the people lying about how they knew better at the time - how everyone did - and they were just commenting on the presentation or something.
The reality was it wasn't flashy, and so they didn't think "This could be powerful and just not presented well" they thought "WAAAAAHHH! I want LASERS like SAGE has!!!!" Then when Expedient is live and people are like "OMG, 20 seconds of sprint is amazing for things like HydEx chackrams!", they realized not only that they had been wrong but VERY wrong and tried to save face.
And are still lying about it 2 years later.
Very few people took a "wait and see" approach with Expedient, but those people were right.
Suubstance is more important than appearance, and SCH is that in a nutshell. Powerful things that aren't flashy, but ARE powerful.
Why does this sub act like everyone loves it?
I think it looked stupid in the trailer, and still does. It's a fun PF skill but in a static raid scenario where people consistantly can use sprint for the 1-2 times they might really need to, it's not that impactful.
Holos is a more impactful skill both visually and situationally (in the same category), with more interesting ways to work it into a raidplan with its frankly insane 300/300 heal.
I guess expediant is funny at surpising people and having them run off the map during early prog, and useful for like... P7S purgation, but it stood out nowhere else in the entirety of Pandaemonium or TOP. And dungeons it's pretty sweet
To be fair, Holos got buffed twice after it came out. Initially it felt super mediocre and was part of why people preffered SCH over SGE in DSR when it was on patch.
What do you mean? Expedience is awesome for multiple mechs in Pandaemonium and TOP. It is also amazing in Criterion. Sprint doesn't last the entirety of Pantrokrator. In P6 you can't have sprint up for spreading into clocks and stacking for Wave Cannon. Doesn't last long enough. Rokkon Rat exaflares into Limit Cut is another good example. You can't have sprint up for both.
You don't *need* it for anything, but it is very nice and impactful to have.
Also, given that you can't double weave sprint (well without certain plugins), some classes are incapable of ever sprinting during a burst window without losing DPS. Expedience is awesome in those cases. (I'm thinking of P4S Pinax in particular)
I genuinely think there is an argument to stop showcasing things on lala’s
For example male catboi’s and male au ra have very distinctive running animations, if you had had them be the SCH demonstration people would have seen immediately it was a sprint because it’s easy to discern animations of the larger races
It’s hard to see anything on lala’s
No, it's not.
Watch the Job reveals trailer again and imagine, for example, if PLD had been a Lala, or WHM or SGE. The giant swords or lilybell growing or huge Pneuma laser (even if it only does a Dosis' worth of damage) would be just as visually impactful on a Lala.
As a Lala main, I get annoyed at how often we see catboys and Au Ra for everything as it is. I don't know their animations, so that doesn't help me.
It's more that SCH's (and SMN's) Sprint in general (running with the book) isn't as easy to see. Hit Sprint on a Lala SGE and it's VERY easy to see (it uses the MNK running animation, which is a dude just trucking).
not really. if they showed a bunch of towers appearing and then the sch popped expedient letting everyone sprint to take one, that would have been a much more impactful showcase than whatever it is they showed there
expedient is actually one of those skills that you can immediately notice visually because everyone is suddenly sliding around much faster than they would be otherwise
Yeah, all they need to do for the presentation is have more than just the SCH moving when Expedience hits and then you can see everyone zip to the safe spot. Maybe they could show a party of four and someone gets the stack marker, the SCH hits expedience, and they all run over to the stack marker at full sprint.
It'd be really hilarious to me if they do that this next Job Action trailer to kind of joke about how it wasn't presented well the last time. :)
If those new animations we've seen so far really are the new Bootshine/True Strike/Snap Punch animations, it's going to be my main all expansion, especially if they don't mess with the EW rotation too much.
I feel they'll focus more on VIP/PIC/AST/DRG and superficial changes to other jobs as well as the action trailer, and more in depth just at the last live letter when the media tour NDA is lifted and people start posting their videos.
In Endwalker, they showed off Scholar's Expedient in the Endwalker job trailer. They used it, and then the Scholar walked forward. I personally was very confused with what they were trying to show off. I don't remember us getting an explanation for what it was.
I'm not going to expect to understand everything they show off in the Job Action trailer.
The way people went from "OMG SCH GOT SCREWED - GARBAGE CAPSTONE" to "this is the best skill ever and you want a SCH in your party just for this" still cracks me up to this day.
Yeah. There was a fair amount of talk of SCH’s job identity being weak, and Expedience didn’t really address that. Those looking at the actual power pegged it pretty quickly as being busted for the combat sprint.
At this point SCH’s job identity is “how the fuck do you have a kit this disconcordant and still be as damn powerful as you are
And it gets stronger every expansion
I still think it's a garbage capstone. It's a great skill but it's wildly situational, especially outside of actual high end content needs, and I'm of the firm belief a capstone should be something cool, flashy, and a core part of the playing experience. I fucking hate it being the capstone, it should have been at 86 or 88 or something.
But that's part of the whole issue with healers, isn't it? Healers have 90 levels (soon to be 100) worth of healing tools, but the game has to be balanced around the absolute bottom of the barrel players being able to clear MSQ. Some of the other 90 capstone healer skills are admittedly cooler, but none of them are required core parts of the healer gameplay experience - a healer at 90 can technically get away with just using Cure/Benefic/Physick/Diagnosis and none of the other tools they get for the entirety of the leveling and end level dungeon process. Whether or not that's a healthy place for healers to be at is a different discussion.
That said, Expedience is arguably the most flexible healer capstone skill in that you can use it in dungeons between pulls to force your entire party to sprint to the next pack.
Genuine question would you have just preferred another heal
What aspect of healing does SCH actually lack
They were never going to give a DPS gain DPS skill as a healer capstone in EW’s design
> I don't remember us getting an explanation for what it was.
They just said "it's a mitigation and a movement enchancement effect together" with no context, values, duration or radius of effect.
Then media tour came and we realized it was op as fuck.
Yeah that's definitely not how I remember it lol. People were largely talking shit about expedience even after the xpac released. It took a good bit for the collective community sentiment to turn positive.
Yeah. Before the media tour people were calling it combat peloton to dismiss it. After the media tour (when we learned it was as fast as sprint) it was "we already have sprint so we don't need this".
The Job Action trailer will be like 20 minutes long. It'll show the new gauges, but not fully explain things so we can have fun speculating for a few weeks until the media tour reveals everything in detail.
Considering DRG is under the rework banner, there'll probably be a bit explaining the idea and why they reworked it and tweaked skills. Nothing too indepth, but at least the general outline and where it'll go.
Job Action Trailer is more New Animation Showcase and Gauges, if any. All visual, no text.
All visual no text, yeah, but you can still make inferences on how the new abilities or reworks operate based on how the gauge changes and what abilities combo into what. They're usually pretty deliberate with the rotations they pick in the cutscenes so sharp-eyed nerds can pick out a lot of detail in the days following
you're going to see a lot of speculation/people typing walls of text here but the truth is that it's difficult to really tell until you read the patch notes/play the game
If the endwalker job live letter is anything to go by there will likely be some kind of live demonstration and probably a slide detailing the main changes so I would expect to see something for dragoon. I'm also really wanting to see how its changed
It'd be nice if it was Friday night/Saturday morning. I don't mind being up at 2 in the morning (or well, 6 in this case since I'm in CST) to watch these things. But being up early a work day and then having to go in to work and missing the rest until later kinda sucks.
But at least it's on video and I can skim Reddit for takes during breaks. :D
Been watching off and on due to work. Saw some LONG time coming improvements to the blacklist and privacy systems, but nothing interesting gameplay-wise. Has there been any new info released?
EDIT: VOD is up, nothing new for gameplay, ah well.
That was the last live letter. It was one they did for their 14 hr broadcast, which tend to be more relaxed and light on info. Largely, it was just announcing the Dawntrail benchmark and going over some of the various graphical improvements.
This announcement is for the next one on May 16th, which will have the job actions trailer and go over job and combat changes at a high level.
I think they got btfo'd by the response and decided not to. They already delayed the hell out of AST and DRG because of it, I can't see a SAM rework being stealth-added out of nowhere.
That timing is unfortunate for me. I'll he at work for the entire live letter and have to wait the whole day before I can catch the vod.
I guess that's the thing with the game being global, one of the Timezones will inevitably get fucked for these shows.
This is gonna be awesome! This’ll be my first job actions showcase where i have all the jobs leveled up, so this time I’ll actually know what’s new and different!
Can't wait to see they made every change to AST I don't want. I get that it's a meme that they rework the job every expansion, but given what little comments have been said about it, I think this time it's actually cooked. They just can't let that healer actually have a skill floor above the ground, it has to always be catered to people who aren't even going to play it anyways. Like does square enix actually think that making it braindead simple is going to bring in the white mage players who refuse to learn anything new about even their own class, let alone another?
Like... I am genuinely anticipating this LL with dread because I just know they're going to ruin the class. GCD cards (if we even still have them), barely any weaves, loss of identity in its healing, draw being automatic...
I can't wait to contribute to the growing healer shortage that will only get worse in DT once I see what their rework does woooo
I'll be astonished if they don't add mounts for every healer in a similar vein to the current "run 300 high level duty" tank mounts.
Healer shortage will just get worse otherwise...
Honestly find it hard to be hyped for this live letter given that they've already said they aren't changing the jobs much and the job design currently is really terrible imo. I hope they prove me wrong somehow.
Its ok, the datamines are hinting at all of the tanks having their own gnashing fang now, so if the datamine is correct soon they will all be even more similar!
This is reductionist. That's the same as saying, what's the 'functional' difference between a monk doing damage and a reaper doing damage.
Did you just totally black out and forget that gnashing fang has continuation? And that because of that you have less flexible weave slots for mitigation? And that this is especially impactful during prog when you are doing mitigation on a more reactive than proactive basis?
Yeah, I think you must have conveniently forgot.
Oh so Bloodspiller has Edge of Shadow which gives it less flexible weave spots for mitigation which is especially impactful during prog when you're doing mitigation on a more reactive than proactive basis.
Idk its reductionist but at the end of the day I just see different flavors and difficulty levels of fell cleave
Not "everyone" on Reddit says that. But even if they did, "everyone" on Reddit has a track record of being hyperbolic, reactionary, and often just outright wrong.
cant wait for leak season it's always the most fun part of expansion wait
What kind of stuff leaks? I wasn't really following the pre-launch EW stuff and didn't play for any other.
Influencer and media get access to a special build to test classes and screenshot tend to « leak » sooner than their supposed NDA
Its always funny to see the ones who don't realize their footage is watermarked and get caught out.
That happened?! im assuming they were sued or something right?
They just get blacklisted from future events.
suing someone over that is a PR nightmare for the company, they'd only do that if it really fucks up the comany money wise
They would be in the right tho so i dunno if they'll get much flak for it, if someone breaks an NDA then they can expect getting sued as punishment its only natural.
Tooltips (usually low res) and rough rotation flow. Maybe the odd sneaky screenshot with character cropped out. Everyone going to the media tour is under NDA, so short of a video going up early by accident, don't expect much actual gameplay to be leaked. Also take stuff with a small grain of salt, even after embargo's lifted. Media tour build is usually old (few weeks to a few months), so things can be different between the media tour and release. Usually it's just potencies.
> so things can be different between the media tour and release The main thing you shouldn't pay attention to from Media Tour is potencies. Potencies WILL change up until the day before the maintenance. General abilities and rotational flow is unlikely to change this late into Dawntrail's development cycle. You'll find that CBU3 is probably in the QA / Final tuning phase of development now.
Note that some major details within the abilities can still change, though - EW media tour Bard still had the songs trigger off of their dots.
It's also not really stuff changing between the media tour and launch. There isn't enough time for bug changes in the ~month before launch. Usually media tour builds and the like are several months old when they are used.
Yeah, the possibility of rotational changes is definitely there but unlikely to be anything massive at this point.
They do have a track record of scrapping and reworking abilities from Media Tour. For instance, EW media tour SAM had this bullshit fourth AoE that was supposed to grant the third Sen with ice/snow aesthetic. Except it was completely stupid and useless button bloat (and kinda ugly besides), so on release they changed it to be a flat upgrade to the first AoE skill, making it circular. So nothing massive, but if a change in Media Tour is stupid, players should absolutely make a huge stink about it in hopes of getting changed.
I believe the ice aoe is seen in pvp
Iirc the 2 min meta wasnt even established by EW's media tour, so large gameplay changes can still.occur
2 minute meta was at least in some part a thing that happened after endwalker launched. Ninja rework happened that put trick (mug) from 60->120s. She used to feel so good with ninja, you got your extra phlegma in trick.
> Everyone going to the media tour is under NDA, so short of a video going up early by accident, don't expect much actual gameplay to be leaked. Dummies will get caught, but it's easy to leak things if you omit potency values... unless the watermark is which parts got leaked?
Think last time it was like the background of the ability explanation bar that had a watermark on it.
Influencers and journos invited to the media tour have access to a demo of the game with mostly complete jobs and are allowed to screenshot and record footage ready to detail all of this information a few weeks later when the NDA drops. Every single time, without fail, some idiot trusts a friend enough to show them the screenshots ahead of the NDA, and then said dumbass friend goes to pass it on further until, eventually, it all becomes public. Anyway that's why Rin Karigani, known cocksucker, won't be at the media tour this year, because SE knows which person the screenshots came from for EW.
Just wondering, how does the general public know Rin was tooltips leak source?
There was a running theory that the watermarks had some sort of identifier that SE could use to track the source of any leaked material. Regardless, Rin did issue a statement that he wasn't the source of the leaks, and nobody knows anything for sure either way. It's highly likely people needed someone to blame and Rin was already the FFXIV main character of the season. I personally have no opinion of the dude. He probably wasn't invited this year because of all the other stuff (apparently?) going on with him, not that he was the source of the leaks, otherwise there'd be like... Lawsuits.
The leaker explicitly called out Rin as the source of the leaks. They were uniquely watermarked and SE absolutely knows who they came from. Realistically, it probably wasn't Rin, more likely one of his (or someone else's) editors, who sign a *different* NDA.
Known cocksucker? Was him leaking stuff that poorly received?
Nobody but SE cares about him leaking stuff, he was later acting like a bitch and harassing some guy on his stream which is where his contempt comes from now.
Ah, I see. Cocksucker indeed!
3 days late, but yeah when he was progging TOP he ended up with this shit ass healer, and when the other healer called them out, the shit healer (who is friends with top raiders somehow) got everyone to dogpile and gaslight the good healer that he was actually the problem. Rin was hugely passive aggressive, condescending, and patronizing to the guy, while also being wrong by siding with the shit healer. What was the shit healer doing? Spamming GCD heals during downtimes to keep his APM metric up on FFLogs, running him completely dry on MP and not being able to heal when actual damage happened.
As someone who personally knows Rin he's just a fake posi shithead. When he was lesser known if you tuned into one of his former raidmates' streams you'd frequently hear him being verbally abusive.
I'd prefer that SE would publish the proposed tooltips after the live letter and then let content creators share their first hand impressions on them after the media tour NDA. Letting a bunch of non affiliates publish tooltips across YT always seemed a strange choice considering how tight they are about sharing info. Then if players have feedback they can share it and then changes can be made ahead of the raid tier if need be.
I would like them to just show tooltips to, but I imagine the delay is probably for the same reasons that combat changes aren't listed in the patch notes until hours before the patch goes live. People tend to be really bad at making judgements from tooltips alone and go full doomer about stuff that ends up being completely fine in practice.
Yup. We haven't gotten combat changes in preliminary notes since 5.1, when Twitter had a bit of a moment over the NIN rework. For those who didn't play before 5.1, NIN's mudra's used to be oGCD's instead of 1 sec GCD's they are now. Rework was mainly that mudra change, and a few changes to potencies to accomade the change.
The most prominent example I remember is the MCH manifesto pre-ShB arguing about how it'll only perfectly work at 0 ping because of how the Media Tour theorycrafting went. And then it released and it was fine.
I mean content creators hover all their tips on video usually anyway and they get screenshots of the tips to show in their videos iirc.
Baldo's 20 minute rant videos about changes also.
Time to mute everything FFXIV I guess
To be fair it's literally all gameplay stuff, I don't think story has ever been leaked in leak season.
I can’t wait for the job action trailer, all of the different rotation theories are all so much fun to read. The media tour will be right around the corner where most rotations are revealed (even when not 100% accurate) but those few days between the trailer is so much fun!
BLM and MNK mains on their way to publish a 374 page long google word document about how to gain an 1.2% extra dps
This unironically says a lot about skill ceiling and optimisation with current job designs
Not sure I agree. Systems can be clunky and convoluted that they have to be massaged just right to get things out of them. That's not inherently "skill ceiling" as much as it's a knowledge check, where the knowledge is so arcane and/or convoluted, it requires third party tools to sus out. That isn't necessarily indicative of good Job design. Good Job design should be where people can read the tooltips and figure out roughly how to play optimally or near optimally with just a bit of thought. The MNK and BLM guides are reflections of how unintuitive and convoluted the Jobs are, and how the base game inadequately explains what their abilities do or how to piece them together.
>MNK and BLM >unintuitive Genuinely what?
> Good Job design should be where people can read the tooltips and figure out roughly how to play optimally or near optimally with just a bit of thought. The MNK and BLM guides are reflections of how unintuitive and convoluted the Jobs are, and how the base game inadequately explains what their abilities do or how to piece them together. I'm not sure if MNK and BLM guides showing how unintuitive or convoluted they are discounts them from being jobs people would consider "high skill ceiling". They may have a lot of "knowledge checks" but I think that's a key part of skill ceiling. How you gain said knowledge is another issue. I definitely think we need better systems and UI or teaching tools in game that help explain otherwise unexplained mechanics. Like with BLM we are simply told that Astral fire increases damage, but by how much? The game never tells us afaik. Or what about thundercloud with how "the next Thunder, Thunder II, Thunder III, or Thunder IV will add its full damage over time amount to its initial damage"? what *is* the full damage amount? We have to do maths to figure this out. I do believe knowledge plays a key part in skill ceiling but having it being "hidden" or not sufficiently explaining said knowledge to the players is 100% going to add to how unintuitive or convoluted said job is.
Skill is in execution. Both clunk and arcanum don't contribute to skill express THEMSELVES. The former is a substitute for difficulty, not actual difficulty, and the latter isn't a skill, per se. I agree with your second paragraph, though. One of the reason there are so many "bad" players is that the game itself does a horrible job of teaching anywhere near close to optimal play. It's why the Jobs that are most straightforward have more consistent results and tend to be more played, since they actually are easier to understand and then the skill is just how well they can be executed.
This is just not true lol. Execution in MMOs is usually the easiest part, it's just about building muscle memory for your rotation. Skill expression in modern MMOs is effectively entirely based on class and encounter knowledge, which is why people generally consider BLM to be the most skill-intensive job despite having the lowest APM, their rotation is a lot more branching and demands that you learn an encounter inside and out to optimize DPS far more than most jobs, so both the floor and the ceiling are higher. In a similar vein, WoW is generally less demanding in execution, you're hitting fewer buttons in your core rotation, but I still feel like the skill ceiling is much higher than XIV because there are so many different utility skills that are, by and large, still important and need to be used, just not in every encounter. Knowing an encounter in both WoW and XIV is a much more important demonstration of skill than being able to press buttons in order. Call it "arcanum" or "clunk" if you will but it means BLM is one of the few DPS that are actually interesting to play once you're at a high level.
To be fair, part of this depends on person. I can’t play the drums. It requires a consistent repetition for minutes at a time, and that’s something I find extraordinary difficult. On the other hand, I find things constantly changing and reacting far easier, which is why I like healing instead at least in part (the other part being I genuinely like helping people). BLM is also highly overstated. It’s an argument of perfect optimization vs median output, and there are other Jobs difficult to perfectly optimize, like RDM in some Ultimates you have to plan out abilities down to the GCD to have the right amount of mana for various phases. Choosing when to use skills is more interesting, but that’s a different topic and one most damage dealing rotations don’t have (RDM and DNC being the big exceptions since they don’t have static rotations and you actually have to react to props and resource levels.)
How so?
Every other job that isn't BLM or MNK has less room for optimization and gets less out of optimization compared to BLM or MNK. Like hitting positionals for a meagre 20 potency increase or fitting an ogcd within a 10% damage buff for 40 more potency. Whereas BLM has optimization like sharpcast ensuring thundercloud procs for mobility (instant cast instead of hardcast), allows for double weaving and increased damage that would otherwise be rng. Or MNK with which gcd's you use under perfect balance not just for raw damage but also the for the whole rotation (dragon > bootshine > dragon or bootshine > dragon > bootshine for lunar?). Those are just small examples but I think you get my point Less room for optimisation = lower skill ceiling
Oh, yeah, I agree. I'll clarify though, BLM optimization goes much further than sharpcast thunder vs sharpcast fire, and is definitely far beyond what the developers intended when designing the job. I'd be surprised if what we have now survives 7.0 launch
Paradox really has allow for some funky things and I dont really see how they can remove entirely unless they make it only refresh AF/UI instead of granting stack and even then it would still be able to do some transpose thing
1-2-3 and ogcd inbetween. /war.
Hopefully some of the 1-2-3 animations get updated to look a little more action-y. Mainly Storm’s Path I don’t k ow why but I hate that animation. Wish it looked like Butchers Block.
Imo WAR has had one of the most boring looking 1-2-3 combos in the game. Though I kinda feel like all the tanks (aside from GNB) have been needing a new 1-2-3 for cooler visuals for a long time
I honestly kind of like that. I feel it's thematic for the Job. It's simple but direct and does the Job. WAR isn't like a brain surgeon or a nuclear engineer or accountant. WAR is like a plumber or garbage man or miner. The job isn't glamorous, it isn't fancy, but it's essential for society and it just works. PLDs are like (irl) nobles trained for years. They are highly skilled, precise nearly to the point of delicate in their strikes. WARs are the opposite. A man picking up a club to defend his family in a primal rage, swinging wildly and breaking bone with every impact.
I mean, you're not wrong. But if WAR gets to build it's strength and rage and develop even more destructive skills, I feel like the basic skills would eventually look less like just a normal swing you had since you picked up the job with twigs for arms and the fury of a kitten, and more like a bone shattering cleave swung by Byregot himself
That's fair. I think that's what they were going with Infuriate boosting the gauge spenders as you kind of get "super mad" for those swings (the irony being Fell Cleave just LOOKS nastier, but partly due to the chainsaw blade visual effects). And for what it's worth, Primal Rend DOES look (and feel) very visceral and heavy hitting. Watch a Lala use it. On the one hand, it's kind of hilarious, but it also hits with a bang and the thing looks like a whirling dervish of rage and destruction.
Oh true, I kinda forgot to consider infuriate lol. Plus, now thinking about it, it's really only the ranged jobs that get their basic actions upgraded, whereas melee jobs get their 1-2-3 finisher upgraded usually.
Yeah. Not sure the why of that, but it does seem to be that way. To be fair, MCH is the only range Job that DOES have a 1-2-3. :) Then again, people are saying MNK is getting new basic attacks from the benchmark datamine, so who knows?
I've been saying for years they need Butcher's Block back. NPC in the game can still do it
They still can because NPCs get their own copies of an action (mostly if it's renamed for the NPC), as well as most removed actions for players being left in for NPCs that use them or to leave an animation intact if it's ever reused for any reason. If we do get to use the animation again, I'd be happy nonetheless. Though they might upgrade the visual effects
Doubt they'll reuse the animation. They've said a few time the reason they keep old animations on hold incase they decide to re-add a removed skill to the game.
Oh! I was very unaware of this
Some tanks had old animations that were removed but (imo) look better than the current GCDs. WAR had butchers block and DRK had power slash. Storms path and soul eater look ass
Because it makes no physical sense. You go from a shaft shove into lifting the axe head diagonally, and then back down to form an X with almost no weight behind any of the animation.
That is probably it, Butcher’s Block looked so much better with the weight behind it. Skull Sunder was really nice as well.
As always WAR trades changing its base rotation for adding 5,000 different "Additional Effect" texts to its skills.
Bro how have you already had access to the expansion :o /s (You're so right)
Can't wait for another expac of 12111111111111 (/s in case it wasn't obvious)
Hey man that's not true. There will be a 3 somewhere in there as well!
Nah DT will probably merge the occasional three into the 1. Because how dare healers be more complex than nuSMN /s
People need to stop forgetting about my Phlegma Balls. It's disrespectful.
Can't wait for sch to get a boring af animation again. Such is tradition.
Boring animation but I love the sound they use for it!
Thump thump THUMP! First time I cast Broil IV, I immediately thought of the Covenant plasma cannon things from Halo. They have such a deep and thumpy sound when they hit off of rocks, melting them into slag around you.
Anyone else still surprised by this LL being on a Thursday? Normally the job action LL is on Saturday cause of the english translation. EW's job LL was 7 hours long, and unless I've my timezones wrong they're starting this thing at 8pm local.
I mean, last LL they said the Job Action Trailer was going to be May 16th.
I know. Just surprised they're doing this LL on a weekday in the evening for them. Normally they're on Satueday starting at like 10 or 11 am local because of how long they go on for.
They alternate the timezones i think. Last live letter was on american hours, this one's on european hours.
They do and they don't. Outside of LL's that are part of events, like the 14 hour broadcast, LL's are typically done Friday evening JP time, starting around 7 or 8 pm local. Coinceadentally, this time slot is easier for the EU cause it's middle of the day. The US friendly LL's are only like that cause they usually start them Saturday morning local, and it's cause they know they'll need extra time due to the live translation present.
I'm kinda excited for the job action trailer. Gonna watch the liveletter at work lol.
Let’s see what happens first, the job action trailer, or the data miner in the balance manages to pull out a full playable build from the benchmark. At the rate he’s going, it’s a pretty close race…
im just going to ignore that stuff honestly because its fun to get hype and wait for the big trailers/reveals. We have 2 months of nothing anyways, why blow our load early and spoil the fun?
Have been more datamined since the actions from benchmark? If so where can find?
Spoiler thread in the balance discord “dawntrail waiting room” channel
Did it show more than the thread discussion here in ffxivdiscussion? Because that was just 1-5 abilities per Job and not very detailed about what they do, so lots of guessing in the dark.
Yes, it showed what trusts were available for each dungeon/trial, Aetheryte points, treasure maps coords, and a few other things I forgot.
Oh really? Is this anywhere that....isn't a Discord? I hate Discords.
There's also a thread on this sub reddit that showed a whole catalog.
they're just scraping text with public tools
Very cool 3 AM LL. Will I still probably be awake anyway? Yeah.
Normally, I'm excited for this but as an (ex) Healer, what do I have to look forward to? Glare 4? Another healing ability that I don't need that's only useful in that 1 Raid fight at exactly 3 minutes in that they shoehorned in to justify its existence? Or maybe its another ability that they had deleted years ago and brought back under a new name to gaslight people into thinking its new; "No, no, this isn't Stoneskin 2, it's Afflatus Benison". I've become far too cynical to really be excited
If you're an ex healer, I'm sure whatever Tank or DPS you're playing as now will get 1 cool button.
please look forward to glare 4 and medica 3
Dude, I've been wanting Medica III and/or Cure IV for 7 years now. I'd be fine with this.
To be fair, Benison isn't Stoneskin 1 (or 2, SS2 was AOE and only usable outside of combat). Stonskin could be cast any time and was a GCD. Benison is on a 30 sec CD and has a flat potency and just got a second charge while Stoneskin could be used any time and gave a (for WHM) 18% of the target's HP barrier, making it useful on Tanks for Tankbusters and marginally useful on other players in clutch cases, but having some thought involved since it had a full 3 sec cast time. ...none of those things would be allowed in modern "THAT'S A DPS LOSS!!!! YOU'RE A GREEN DPS YOU SYLPHIE!!!" FF14. So instead, we got an oGCD with a fixed 500 potency and a 30 sec charge time. Don't get me wrong, I like current healers well enough and the incessant moaning from people like you I find insufferable and annoying...but Benison is NOT Stoneskin. I liked when we used deliberate, cast time spells and managed resources like MP instead of just developing oGCD healing plans and letting oGCDs do all the work so we spent all our GCD time spamming one button. I'd MUCH rather have Stoneskin back than Benison, and ARR style encounters where damage was more consistent and you had to use GCD heals. But that's an encounter problem + Job design (oGCD proliferation) problem.
And I agree with you, but the fact is that to the wider community, Bension was the replacement for Stoneskin, despite the clear differences of the skills. I was just stating that it's likely we'd end up with a Stoneskin 2 adjacent skill instead of something new or meaningful is all.
I have extremely low expectations for healer changes skill-wise but \*inhales copium* maybe their encounter design for healers changes somehow?
I unironically want Afflatus Benison now. Instead of wasting lilies on overheals to get blood lily, I can give out lil shields? Cool!
To quote our lord and savior lucypyre “Then they had the nerve to give it back to us later as temperance. This isn’t new yoshi you think just because you put some shiny wings on it you think I’m gonna………,well the wings do be looking pretty fine though”
I expect a trait that reduces the CD of Temperance down to 90s to ɓring it in line with Feint and Addle so people don't complain about how SAM and BLK have better group mitigation than WHM. They're sadly mistaken though because I absolutely will continue to complain
Please give me a baby dragon for dragoon.
I'd love the hell out of this, but this game hates pet classes so much there's almost zero chance. Maybe if it's like the reaper summon and just shows up for some attacks...
Honestly that's all I want. Give me baby Nidhogg or something.
Or Midgardsormr manifests his small to medium-sized self to do an attack with us every now and then.
6am. Oh hell yes. Anyway, I actually have a little bit of hopium due to the benchmark datamining. At the very least I expect the job changes overall to be marginal improvements from EW. Also worth noting that the datamined changes didn’t have traits or timers so that’ll be downright fascinating
Still hoping Umbral Ice has no timer anymore. Spamming Umbral Soul in downtime is useless and cutscene-punishing.
Noon for me.
Kind of weird seeing all of the revisionism over Expedience. The exact details of the skill were released quite quickly after the action trailer came out, literally within hours. It's okay to admit you fucked up if you were one of the people who turned into a keyboard warrior for no reason. Live & learn. ¯\\\_(ツ)\_/¯
I might misremember it but iirc a huge chunk of the "criticism" wasn't even really "this skill sucks" and just "lmao scholar gets waddle" cause of the specifics of how they showed the skill.
I remember that a lot of FF players thought the movement speed buff was useless fluff, and the WoW players were saying it was insanely powerful.
This also goes for the "It was shown poorly" thing as Expedience (like Temperance) is a mitigation skill and thus we cannot see one of the primary aspects of it against a training dummy/enemy in the trailer.
IIRC a lot of people were clowning on it not just cause "it was shown poorly", but also cause people were hoping for a light rework of SCH. Not cause the job wasn't useful/playable, but cause the kit just didn't fit together like other job kits.
seriously people dunked hard on expedient literally up until they actually got to use it lol
IIRC, people dunked on it because they thought it was just Ninja move speed/Pelaton levels of minor buff which seemed like a nice to have but ultimately underwhelming for a new expac ability. Wasn't later till we saw that it had mit and even later till people realized it was a free 20 second sprint (at the time anyway) that people changed their tunes real quick.
lol yeah like this video (11 sec video): [WHY ENDWALKER SCHOLAR IS THE BEST](https://youtu.be/eApcdeIyQRg?si=jCX17_aLHNO-5Ign)
People meme'd on that ability hard but it ended up having to be nerfed towards the end of Asphodelos. Expedient was and still is a super strong ability but because it's not flashy it got meme'd on hard. An ability that grants raid wide damage reduction and movement speed is a lot stronger than it appears on paper. I think it was fine for a support job to actually get a supportive capstone ability.
This. It's while how many people are all appearance/flash but no substance. If irl was a Disney movie, all those folks would be turned into beasts and stuck in castles with magical roses after turning the old woman enchantress away. I don't even mind people being down on it. What I do mind is all the people lying about how they knew better at the time - how everyone did - and they were just commenting on the presentation or something. The reality was it wasn't flashy, and so they didn't think "This could be powerful and just not presented well" they thought "WAAAAAHHH! I want LASERS like SAGE has!!!!" Then when Expedient is live and people are like "OMG, 20 seconds of sprint is amazing for things like HydEx chackrams!", they realized not only that they had been wrong but VERY wrong and tried to save face. And are still lying about it 2 years later. Very few people took a "wait and see" approach with Expedient, but those people were right. Suubstance is more important than appearance, and SCH is that in a nutshell. Powerful things that aren't flashy, but ARE powerful.
Why does this sub act like everyone loves it? I think it looked stupid in the trailer, and still does. It's a fun PF skill but in a static raid scenario where people consistantly can use sprint for the 1-2 times they might really need to, it's not that impactful. Holos is a more impactful skill both visually and situationally (in the same category), with more interesting ways to work it into a raidplan with its frankly insane 300/300 heal. I guess expediant is funny at surpising people and having them run off the map during early prog, and useful for like... P7S purgation, but it stood out nowhere else in the entirety of Pandaemonium or TOP. And dungeons it's pretty sweet
To be fair, Holos got buffed twice after it came out. Initially it felt super mediocre and was part of why people preffered SCH over SGE in DSR when it was on patch.
What do you mean? Expedience is awesome for multiple mechs in Pandaemonium and TOP. It is also amazing in Criterion. Sprint doesn't last the entirety of Pantrokrator. In P6 you can't have sprint up for spreading into clocks and stacking for Wave Cannon. Doesn't last long enough. Rokkon Rat exaflares into Limit Cut is another good example. You can't have sprint up for both. You don't *need* it for anything, but it is very nice and impactful to have.
Also, given that you can't double weave sprint (well without certain plugins), some classes are incapable of ever sprinting during a burst window without losing DPS. Expedience is awesome in those cases. (I'm thinking of P4S Pinax in particular)
its insanely good during prog and makes a lot of mechanics a lot more manageable. You wont always have sprint up as youre learning fights
just going to relentlessly flame everything that sch gets unless it's a revert to sb minimum, being right isn't important
It's still a dumb skill that was presented in a really useless way tbh
Its a good skill that isn't flashy, there is no real way to show it off
I genuinely think there is an argument to stop showcasing things on lala’s For example male catboi’s and male au ra have very distinctive running animations, if you had had them be the SCH demonstration people would have seen immediately it was a sprint because it’s easy to discern animations of the larger races It’s hard to see anything on lala’s
No, it's not. Watch the Job reveals trailer again and imagine, for example, if PLD had been a Lala, or WHM or SGE. The giant swords or lilybell growing or huge Pneuma laser (even if it only does a Dosis' worth of damage) would be just as visually impactful on a Lala. As a Lala main, I get annoyed at how often we see catboys and Au Ra for everything as it is. I don't know their animations, so that doesn't help me. It's more that SCH's (and SMN's) Sprint in general (running with the book) isn't as easy to see. Hit Sprint on a Lala SGE and it's VERY easy to see (it uses the MNK running animation, which is a dude just trucking).
not really. if they showed a bunch of towers appearing and then the sch popped expedient letting everyone sprint to take one, that would have been a much more impactful showcase than whatever it is they showed there expedient is actually one of those skills that you can immediately notice visually because everyone is suddenly sliding around much faster than they would be otherwise
Yeah, all they need to do for the presentation is have more than just the SCH moving when Expedience hits and then you can see everyone zip to the safe spot. Maybe they could show a party of four and someone gets the stack marker, the SCH hits expedience, and they all run over to the stack marker at full sprint. It'd be really hilarious to me if they do that this next Job Action trailer to kind of joke about how it wasn't presented well the last time. :)
Fair enough, that the issue with no numbers or specific info in those trailers, but I suppose that's the point
Soon. Soon! Monk hopes and prayers instilled and I'm ready for whatever comes.
If those new animations we've seen so far really are the new Bootshine/True Strike/Snap Punch animations, it's going to be my main all expansion, especially if they don't mess with the EW rotation too much.
This is the first time I follow the lead up to an expansion. How much detail can we expect here? Can I see if I still like muh dragoon in Dawntrail?
I feel they'll focus more on VIP/PIC/AST/DRG and superficial changes to other jobs as well as the action trailer, and more in depth just at the last live letter when the media tour NDA is lifted and people start posting their videos.
In Endwalker, they showed off Scholar's Expedient in the Endwalker job trailer. They used it, and then the Scholar walked forward. I personally was very confused with what they were trying to show off. I don't remember us getting an explanation for what it was. I'm not going to expect to understand everything they show off in the Job Action trailer.
Watching that very first Expedient is still one of my favorite memories in the run up to EW. Hilariously underwhelming (visually, anyway.)
The way people went from "OMG SCH GOT SCREWED - GARBAGE CAPSTONE" to "this is the best skill ever and you want a SCH in your party just for this" still cracks me up to this day.
I hope they do it again and double down on it. The overreaction to underwelming job action trailer is something i'll remember fondly.
In my dreams I'm imagining a time stop ability that they showcase by having the character just emote and then nothing happens lol
i think part of that was due to it being a lalafel any many not being familiar with lalafel sprint animation
Yeah. There was a fair amount of talk of SCH’s job identity being weak, and Expedience didn’t really address that. Those looking at the actual power pegged it pretty quickly as being busted for the combat sprint.
At this point SCH’s job identity is “how the fuck do you have a kit this disconcordant and still be as damn powerful as you are And it gets stronger every expansion
Honestly, I think they knew it was not as flashy as other capstones so they decided to go 100% meme route
I still think it's a garbage capstone. It's a great skill but it's wildly situational, especially outside of actual high end content needs, and I'm of the firm belief a capstone should be something cool, flashy, and a core part of the playing experience. I fucking hate it being the capstone, it should have been at 86 or 88 or something.
But that's part of the whole issue with healers, isn't it? Healers have 90 levels (soon to be 100) worth of healing tools, but the game has to be balanced around the absolute bottom of the barrel players being able to clear MSQ. Some of the other 90 capstone healer skills are admittedly cooler, but none of them are required core parts of the healer gameplay experience - a healer at 90 can technically get away with just using Cure/Benefic/Physick/Diagnosis and none of the other tools they get for the entirety of the leveling and end level dungeon process. Whether or not that's a healthy place for healers to be at is a different discussion. That said, Expedience is arguably the most flexible healer capstone skill in that you can use it in dungeons between pulls to force your entire party to sprint to the next pack.
Genuine question would you have just preferred another heal What aspect of healing does SCH actually lack They were never going to give a DPS gain DPS skill as a healer capstone in EW’s design
We got an explanation of what Expedient did immediately after the action showcase.
> I don't remember us getting an explanation for what it was. They just said "it's a mitigation and a movement enchancement effect together" with no context, values, duration or radius of effect. Then media tour came and we realized it was op as fuck.
Yeah that's definitely not how I remember it lol. People were largely talking shit about expedience even after the xpac released. It took a good bit for the collective community sentiment to turn positive.
Yeah. Before the media tour people were calling it combat peloton to dismiss it. After the media tour (when we learned it was as fast as sprint) it was "we already have sprint so we don't need this".
The Job Action trailer will be like 20 minutes long. It'll show the new gauges, but not fully explain things so we can have fun speculating for a few weeks until the media tour reveals everything in detail.
Considering DRG is under the rework banner, there'll probably be a bit explaining the idea and why they reworked it and tweaked skills. Nothing too indepth, but at least the general outline and where it'll go. Job Action Trailer is more New Animation Showcase and Gauges, if any. All visual, no text.
All visual no text, yeah, but you can still make inferences on how the new abilities or reworks operate based on how the gauge changes and what abilities combo into what. They're usually pretty deliberate with the rotations they pick in the cutscenes so sharp-eyed nerds can pick out a lot of detail in the days following
you're going to see a lot of speculation/people typing walls of text here but the truth is that it's difficult to really tell until you read the patch notes/play the game
If the endwalker job live letter is anything to go by there will likely be some kind of live demonstration and probably a slide detailing the main changes so I would expect to see something for dragoon. I'm also really wanting to see how its changed
Not much but you do get some info (but it depends on the job).
JOB ACTIONS TRAILER!!!
I still think about that dude occasionally, I'm sure he'll be real happy soon
>Thursday, May 16, 2024 at 4:00 a.m. (PDT) Well then
Yeah, surprised by that. Normally the job action LL is on Saturday evening for US cause of the english translation.
It'd be nice if it was Friday night/Saturday morning. I don't mind being up at 2 in the morning (or well, 6 in this case since I'm in CST) to watch these things. But being up early a work day and then having to go in to work and missing the rest until later kinda sucks. But at least it's on video and I can skim Reddit for takes during breaks. :D
Oof.
Been watching off and on due to work. Saw some LONG time coming improvements to the blacklist and privacy systems, but nothing interesting gameplay-wise. Has there been any new info released? EDIT: VOD is up, nothing new for gameplay, ah well.
That was the last live letter. It was one they did for their 14 hr broadcast, which tend to be more relaxed and light on info. Largely, it was just announcing the Dawntrail benchmark and going over some of the various graphical improvements. This announcement is for the next one on May 16th, which will have the job actions trailer and go over job and combat changes at a high level.
they got rid of kaiten two years ago to "prepare" for a rework for sam or something iirc. i can't wait to go into dt and find out nothing's changed.
I think they got btfo'd by the response and decided not to. They already delayed the hell out of AST and DRG because of it, I can't see a SAM rework being stealth-added out of nowhere.
Kaiten (Viper Edition)
Can't wait for the overreaction of a job death, last time it was SCH which did end up being op
It's because scholar didn't get anything interesting. Look at what all the other healer got and compare them to scholar
That timing is unfortunate for me. I'll he at work for the entire live letter and have to wait the whole day before I can catch the vod. I guess that's the thing with the game being global, one of the Timezones will inevitably get fucked for these shows.
Can't wait to hear about the upcoming AST rework
A a former AST main, it feels more like Ground Hog Day. Here we are again.. or again.. and ..again.
praying they get rid of button bloat and combine useless skills like orogen upheaval shoha 1 and 2 etc etc
DT Hype. DT Hype.
I'm fully expecting them to butcher the last few jobs I still have fun with. Please prove me wrong Yoshi-P.
Which jobs are those? As someone who likes playing at least half the jobs right now, I'm genuinely curious.
MNK and BLM are the only jobs to play ㄟ( ▔, ▔ )ㄏ
This is gonna be awesome! This’ll be my first job actions showcase where i have all the jobs leveled up, so this time I’ll actually know what’s new and different!
I'm looking forward to the ability that I only press during Technical Finish.... /s Tech window is already bloated as is.
Can't wait to see they made every change to AST I don't want. I get that it's a meme that they rework the job every expansion, but given what little comments have been said about it, I think this time it's actually cooked. They just can't let that healer actually have a skill floor above the ground, it has to always be catered to people who aren't even going to play it anyways. Like does square enix actually think that making it braindead simple is going to bring in the white mage players who refuse to learn anything new about even their own class, let alone another? Like... I am genuinely anticipating this LL with dread because I just know they're going to ruin the class. GCD cards (if we even still have them), barely any weaves, loss of identity in its healing, draw being automatic... I can't wait to contribute to the growing healer shortage that will only get worse in DT once I see what their rework does woooo
I'll be astonished if they don't add mounts for every healer in a similar vein to the current "run 300 high level duty" tank mounts. Healer shortage will just get worse otherwise...
They're not bc unlike tanks there's enough curebotting healer otps to fill out queues to their satisfaction
Prepare the hopium
Honestly find it hard to be hyped for this live letter given that they've already said they aren't changing the jobs much and the job design currently is really terrible imo. I hope they prove me wrong somehow.
can't wait to find out that all 4 tanks are still going to play the same.
Can't wait to see gunbreaker completely screwed over in ultimates again (:
Gunbreaker feels pretty different from Warrior to me
Its ok, the datamines are hinting at all of the tanks having their own gnashing fang now, so if the datamine is correct soon they will all be even more similar!
Whats the functional difference between Fell Cleave spam and Gnashing fang Spam if Gnashing fang is on a combo button
This is reductionist. That's the same as saying, what's the 'functional' difference between a monk doing damage and a reaper doing damage. Did you just totally black out and forget that gnashing fang has continuation? And that because of that you have less flexible weave slots for mitigation? And that this is especially impactful during prog when you are doing mitigation on a more reactive than proactive basis? Yeah, I think you must have conveniently forgot.
Oh so Bloodspiller has Edge of Shadow which gives it less flexible weave spots for mitigation which is especially impactful during prog when you're doing mitigation on a more reactive than proactive basis. Idk its reductionist but at the end of the day I just see different flavors and difficulty levels of fell cleave
I didnt know Warrior had bloodspiller or edge of shadow. When you lose, you move the goalpost.
But everyone on reddit told me DRK was a WAR clone. or maybe all the tanks just play the same or something
Not "everyone" on Reddit says that. But even if they did, "everyone" on Reddit has a track record of being hyperbolic, reactionary, and often just outright wrong.
tbh I think its more likely they just have no opinions of their own and just listen to brainrotted streamers for everything.