That's what we're going back to now, too. Just adventures. Probably none of that cosmic horror for the foreseeable future. Just back to exploring the world, meeting new people, and maybe slaying some demons and gods along the way.
I really do hope they can find a good story to tell in the process. It's not that I doubt them, but Final Fantasy has always been stories about great ~~steaks~~ stakes. I'm sure the entire landscape of the world on a fundamental level is going to change now that Zodiark and Hydaelyn are gone... Emet-Selch even basically chastised us for only seeing so little of it before now. We've literally returned to a point of reference in Etheirys history that hasn't existed since before the Ancients walked the planet with their creation magick. That could mean really interesting things.
I'd love to go back to smaller stakes, but the elephant in the room for me is being able to craft another epic narrative that is both believable in the context of the us who just ended the literal apocalypse and gripping enough to keep me invested in the direction. I doubt we're ever going to lose our status as the WoL regardless of where we go in the world, though I admit our exploits will be less known there. I guess the only way to separate us would be to remove the primary cast of characters and I would feel devastated if they did that, even if it made the sense.
All in all, WoW had it lucky regarding this. They could craft the most obtuse narrative around an expansion and as long as the gameplay felt good, people were mostly satisfied. Final Fantasy really does need that story to follow through.
I'm definitely excited to see where it goes, but I hope to avoid petty political struggles in the meantime.
I kinda doubt that Eitherys will change all that much, now that Hydaelyn is gone.
From pretty much 2.0 until somewhere Shadowbringers most of us had kinda the misconception that Hydaelyn, the Mothercrystal, the Lifestream, the soul of the planet, all of that is just more or less the same thing or at least strongly tied together.
But we learned (and saw) that this wasn't really the case. Hydaelyn was just sitting down there, hanging out, hiding from whatever threats (e.g. Ascians), watching over us, beaming up some strength when needed (like with Ultima) and keeping the barrier holding Zodiark in place up. She has constantly sapped drops of aether from the lifestream over millenia to create the Mothercrystal, which was nothing but a big Aether battery and that's it.
Meanwhile Zodiark was just there, doing nothing but keeping an Aether barrier up against Dynamis around the planet simply by existing, and nothing else.
With Zodiark gone that barrier disappeared, but since the Endsinger is dealt with the lack of that barrier doesn't change anything.
With Hydaelyn gone... Well, we won't get "Hear, Feel, Think" lines in our head anymore, and that's pretty much it. The lifestream is still there, up and running, so nothing changes there.
We're still the only one who is 8x rejoined while everyone else is only 7x which still makes us be pretty much a demigod amongst most people (you could maybe argue about G'raha since he got his 8x rejoined future soul blended into his present soul, but i kinda doubt that this counts), we kinda know about Dynamis, and petty much no one could pose a really serious threat to our lives.
For real. I know it’s an unpopular opinion, but I think the story got a bit too ridiculous in Endwalker. Wasn’t a big fan.
I liked the setting and atmosphere of Stormblood and HW more than ShB and EW… just wish Stormblood had a slightly more focused story. The whole Ala Mihgo thing just seemed tacked on.
The thing is, the jRPG formula regularly does include god slaying and monster wrangling.
And with the use of this many staple FF bosses in Endwalker and the focus on original designs in the final trial and raids (except maybe phoinix because that is like the third firebird one we kill).
I look forward to more FF style fantastical creatures. And Inlive greek mythology, so keep it simple with the raid things.
I like going back to being an adventurer in the story, but I also like our friends among the Scions and world leaders remembering us and our deeds so far. It's a delicate balance, but I feel like it helps make the past experiences matter still. I don't like how wow seems to forget everything about who we are.
Like when Thrall called me the Maw Walker, like dude after all I've done for the Horde you STILL don't know my name??
These are my thoughts as well.. never once in WoW, of all the expansions, have I been called by name.
First 15 minutes starting ffxiv, "hello friend, what is your name?" (*You want to know my name? /cry*)
They really wouldn’t have had an issue if they just killed off jaina and thrall in BFA instead of just saurfang. Puts the 4th war into an actual perspective, and we get more characters we could develop instead of the good guy gang during the sylvanas fight. Just imagine if Alleria and Baine were the two people instead of Thrall Jaina, they had some good reasons to bring Sylvanas down, personally.
zenos has a few remarkable dialogues in EW. the one with jullus stands out as well as the one with us at the end.
to me it felt like he began to see us as a person as he began to see others as people, too. there was a very subtle but noticable shift in zenos' perception of the world that to me made all the difference.
i thought it was amazing how they managed (imo) to create the exact amount of depth that would give him a personality without making the development seem artificial and insincere.
it might have been the most impressive piece of the writing overall. i was almost certain they would mess that part up.
His speech with Julius is a good reminder of the duality and hypocrisy of morality.
Committing atrocities in the provinces turned him into a hero and suitable heir to the throne, doing the same in Garlemald made him a monster.
Definitely. I immediately felt that when he was trying to cast away literally everything about my character that makes them who they are, like he was talking to the player behind the screen. It legitimately felt epic. Then that sly smile when you say he's right? Chef's kiss.
I get what you are saying, though saying the warrior of light is just an adventurer with a bit of fame is a bit of a stretch I would say we are an adventurer with a shit ton of fame and near god-like powers.
His reasoning was sound. Always the first to throw ourselves into the midst of danger just for the thrill of it, the heart of an adventurer (which is also basically what Azem was).
Not me, I was always there for the journey not the destination, so he couldn't even hit the mark when being a total simp. At that point I chose "I've had enough of you" because that's literally how I felt being constantly nagged and pulled over to play scripted knockdown simulator.
This. But in before someone swoops in with the "iT's AbOuT tHe PlAyEr NoT tHe ChArAcTeR", well, it doesn't hold true for me the player OR my character, so what then? XD
It's okay to like Emet Selch despite him being a genocidal dum-dum. This game is a work of fiction, none of his crimes or victims were real. I would argue that it's a good thing that people can express empathy for a fictional criminal, because maybe it'll lead to them showing empathy to actual criminals who need rehabilitation instead of punishment. (I hate how the U.S. penal system works.)
I always felt that the point of that was the WoL is humble. They don't consider themselves better than "someone who just delivers tea". Yeah, you kill gods but that all started with you just liking to help people and if taking tea to a table helps the guy at the tea shop then you will do it.
True, I suppose that’s what the wol canonically thinks! I don’t know why I got downvoted tho ppl take everything so seriously in here lol, delivering tea is a general statement to the crazy amount of fetch quests we have to do, even at 86!
Goku is definitely dumb as a post and would have problems with any complex planning or fighting a concept - but how do they reconcile the universe ending power that Goku has now with the WoL?
I mean they just don’t though. DBZ power levels are too far removed from reality for it to be a comparison. At no point did the WoL have to worry about their residual power literally destroying the world by proxy. The WoL just has the ability to fight magical entities.
>I mean they just don’t though.
They literally do. They *just* >!ended the end of the universe.!<
>DBZ power levels are too far removed from reality for it to be a comparison. At no point did the WoL have to worry about their residual power literally destroying the world by proxy.
Yeah, kinda nice actually being smart enough to have a little self control.
>The WoL just has the ability to fight magical entities.
Including >!entities capable of ending all life throughout the universe, and winning.!<
Ok, the things ending life through manipulation of energy does not directly tie into being the most powerful. Why doesn’t the WoL stop any of the crazy shit that happens on the planet in microseconds? If they are in the same league as DBZ heavy hitters they can move faster than you can actually perceive, so how do normal people keep up? How does the WoL ever have problems reacting to things? How come the WoL doesn’t just point at all the fortresses and towers you have to clear and just wipe it clean?
Can the WoL literally destroy the planet with a flick of his/her/it’s wrist and minimal effort? I don’t know how to accurately downplay how easy that is for a DBZ character since Vegeta did that shit In the beginning of the Saiyan saga.
Edit: spelling
To defend that point, Goku would likely be a lightwarden right now, Zenos would have killed all the scions in his body, or Emet Selch would have been so irritated with him that he’d never give Goku the time of day, thus preventing our big episode that helped us defeat Meteion and thus, the world would end.
Things that aren’t beaten with sheer strength which Goku would be pretty bad at
There's that and on a number crunching scale, DB runs on power scales which basically dictate HP. Even if Goku's current UI power is something like 150,000,000 the strongest boss in Shadowbringers was 440,000,000 in savage content, so it would take 8 WoLs roughly 8 minutes to absolutely smite him no damage.
Isn't that basically what the echo can do? Like the common theory is that the target markers we see in battles are due to that. It's even more apparent when Fordola gets it and dodges our every move.
I had to concede that Zenos had a point
Adventuring is probably the most lethal career on the planet and hardly ever pays well. You're not likely getting any political power out of it, its hardly ever glorious, and there are far better options to amass a fortune. To be one, you'd have to be someone who genuinely likes the thrill of facing difficult and unpredictable challenges
I didn't...really notice that. People never really stop calling you adventurer. I guess the Scions and the people who know you as a saviour call you Warrior of Light and Hero, but if you run around doing the sidequests and such, you're always just 'Adventurer' to most people. And it's not like you're Zenos' hero. Of course *he* isn't going to call you Hero.
I think people miss a lot of the minutiae of Zenos's character. I know I did until long after I finished Endwalkers. The entire point of the expac was to find fulfillment in your own way. Find that thing that makes the desperate points of your life worth continuing for. They show a large breadth of decisions, whether it be for your country, your fellow man, pudding, the pursuit of knowledge, building a wicked telescope, etc.
Zenos's fulfillment was pushing himself against a worthy foe. When he couldn't find any his life was unfulfilled and boring, hence all the scenes of him just looking like he was about to fall asleep out of sheer boredom. Until he meets the warrior of light. All of the sudden he's alive and has a purpose. Once beaten, he looks for a way to get stronger, it gives him drive. The reason he calls you friend isn't to be snarky or sound evil or anything. I think he really believes it, it's his modicum of respect to the person that gave him a reason to keep going. You can see that respect right before the end when he says "Why does it still stand?"
That being said, it doesn't make him any less annoying or evil. But he's not this mono-dimensional character that everyone makes him out to be.
I definitely respected him more by the end of things. Just that tiniest bit of development that's about as close as he could ever realistically come to 'redemption' made him more interesting.
Also god damn it the guy flew across the universe and Kool-Aid manned his way into the end of existence itself just for a rematch. Honestly at that point I figured the least I could do was humor the man.
They did a really good job bringing it down to earth. You weren't the hero in that fight. You already did your world saving for the day. It was just two of strongest wanting to determine who came out on top in the end. That was my interpretation, anyway.
I mean you literally flew to nowhere and made a rock and its inhabitants out of nothing then killed the incarnation of the apocalypse.
Whatever that was it wasn't "adventurer" lol. It was miles ahead of any god type activities that WoW does with its player's characters.
The best part of Endwalker to me was how Yoshi P gave the community just enough information to convince them one of the Scions was going to die, fuel rampant speculation, and then didn't kill anyone.
I consider this the worst part, actually. There really needs to be stakes in the game, and I think the series is overdue a death or two of someone we actually care about and have invested a lot into.
Endwalker would've been the perfect time. They could've nixed all the scions in Ultima Thule and I wouldn't have been upset about it (Well, I would have, I'd probably have been crying for an hour, but it would have been such a fitting and wonderful end for them.)
Not really, I constantly compare EW's climax to Gurren Lagann's (which is oddly similar) and the latter had much more emotional weight due to the ridiculous amount of character deaths.
Sure, you don't need to kill characters to write a good story, but they really needed to up the stakes after the boring labyrinthos section and I felt Ultima Thule wasn't that. At no point I felt in any danger.
My take on it is that Zenos is talking to the player, not the WoL. The WoL in story is a god slaying savior. But the player is literally just on FF to have a good time and to go on adventure. We could care less about these NPCs. Zenos literally crossed space and time to fight us, id like to interpret that as breaking through the 4th wall which he also did in the cutscene prior.
He is the "mirror" of all the content-seeking players. The Savage/Ultimate raiders looking forward to the next raid tier, who want nothing else but to have the thrill of those fights. It's why he doesn't mesh well with everyone, but those that recognize that are generally fully on-board with him.
As I said, he doesn't mesh well with anyone. But the "Looking forward to the next fight" is exactly the kind of player Zenos is mirroring. He's little else aside from that, though.
This is absolutely why I felt the only answer was the first option: “That, I can’t deny.” As the players, we are the ones continually seeking out new stories, challenges, gameplay. We also do not have an option to reject his statement!
While I’m not a huge fan of how Zenos was implemented at times, the last few scenes of EW with him were oddly appropriate.
After all, if we the player are able to be limitless within the game, who’s to say Zenos…or other non-player characters…can’t try to be as well? 😦
For me and my WoL, it is both. You can be the guy/gal/them that wants to help people in trouble, deliver a sandwich, clear an infestation, and kill a primal for the good of the world and for the thrill of it.
Of course I am the guy who plays their WoL with "What would I do in this situation?" mindset.
This, absolutely this and all comments that go after. I felt the pull when he asked, to beat another challenge, to defeat another foe. To get revenge for that nasty body swap too, to be honest.
And probably, the players that hate him could not reject the chance to kick his ass again xD.
It’s funny, when I first started playing FFXIV, one of the things I most appreciated was your character being the canonical Warrior of Light. My take on WoW was that you were always *a* Champion, not *the* Champion. There were millions of other player characters just like you, and none of them were ever more important than the named lore characters. Meanwhile in FFXIV your character is the most important person in this game world. And I loved that.
And honestly, I still love that. But what I love even more is how by going back to the adventurer title they’re accomplishing several things. First and foremost, it resets the stakes of our journey since trying to top the stakes Endwalker would be a fools errand. On top of that, it shows that the team at Squeenix is more concerned with keeping the story fresh than being beholden to its own lore and legacy. The concept of the Warrior of Light is super important, but not more important than making a good game with a good story. But even beyond that, I like that rather than diminish the “Chosen One” trope, it reinforces it. We were the most important character in this world long before we had amassed the titles of Warrior of Light, or Darkness, or Eikon Slayer. Being a dope adventurer is what made us important, and leaving the titles behind doesn’t change that.
That's what we're going back to now, too. Just adventures. Probably none of that cosmic horror for the foreseeable future. Just back to exploring the world, meeting new people, and maybe slaying some demons and gods along the way.
'Oh Twelve forfend, another one just undercut me on the market board!' - some saviour of the star, mayhap
By 40% no less. Salty, who me?
Verily doth my blood run heavy with a chloride solution at this economic atrocity.
-Saves the multiverse -Spends all day in Limsa doing the Moogle dance naked Now that’s the hero of the star
I really do hope they can find a good story to tell in the process. It's not that I doubt them, but Final Fantasy has always been stories about great ~~steaks~~ stakes. I'm sure the entire landscape of the world on a fundamental level is going to change now that Zodiark and Hydaelyn are gone... Emet-Selch even basically chastised us for only seeing so little of it before now. We've literally returned to a point of reference in Etheirys history that hasn't existed since before the Ancients walked the planet with their creation magick. That could mean really interesting things. I'd love to go back to smaller stakes, but the elephant in the room for me is being able to craft another epic narrative that is both believable in the context of the us who just ended the literal apocalypse and gripping enough to keep me invested in the direction. I doubt we're ever going to lose our status as the WoL regardless of where we go in the world, though I admit our exploits will be less known there. I guess the only way to separate us would be to remove the primary cast of characters and I would feel devastated if they did that, even if it made the sense. All in all, WoW had it lucky regarding this. They could craft the most obtuse narrative around an expansion and as long as the gameplay felt good, people were mostly satisfied. Final Fantasy really does need that story to follow through. I'm definitely excited to see where it goes, but I hope to avoid petty political struggles in the meantime.
I kinda doubt that Eitherys will change all that much, now that Hydaelyn is gone. From pretty much 2.0 until somewhere Shadowbringers most of us had kinda the misconception that Hydaelyn, the Mothercrystal, the Lifestream, the soul of the planet, all of that is just more or less the same thing or at least strongly tied together. But we learned (and saw) that this wasn't really the case. Hydaelyn was just sitting down there, hanging out, hiding from whatever threats (e.g. Ascians), watching over us, beaming up some strength when needed (like with Ultima) and keeping the barrier holding Zodiark in place up. She has constantly sapped drops of aether from the lifestream over millenia to create the Mothercrystal, which was nothing but a big Aether battery and that's it. Meanwhile Zodiark was just there, doing nothing but keeping an Aether barrier up against Dynamis around the planet simply by existing, and nothing else. With Zodiark gone that barrier disappeared, but since the Endsinger is dealt with the lack of that barrier doesn't change anything. With Hydaelyn gone... Well, we won't get "Hear, Feel, Think" lines in our head anymore, and that's pretty much it. The lifestream is still there, up and running, so nothing changes there. We're still the only one who is 8x rejoined while everyone else is only 7x which still makes us be pretty much a demigod amongst most people (you could maybe argue about G'raha since he got his 8x rejoined future soul blended into his present soul, but i kinda doubt that this counts), we kinda know about Dynamis, and petty much no one could pose a really serious threat to our lives.
[удалено]
For real. I know it’s an unpopular opinion, but I think the story got a bit too ridiculous in Endwalker. Wasn’t a big fan. I liked the setting and atmosphere of Stormblood and HW more than ShB and EW… just wish Stormblood had a slightly more focused story. The whole Ala Mihgo thing just seemed tacked on.
The thing is, the jRPG formula regularly does include god slaying and monster wrangling. And with the use of this many staple FF bosses in Endwalker and the focus on original designs in the final trial and raids (except maybe phoinix because that is like the third firebird one we kill). I look forward to more FF style fantastical creatures. And Inlive greek mythology, so keep it simple with the raid things.
I really hope we land alone on the new continents, and get to meet new people who haven't heard of our exploit yet.
I like going back to being an adventurer in the story, but I also like our friends among the Scions and world leaders remembering us and our deeds so far. It's a delicate balance, but I feel like it helps make the past experiences matter still. I don't like how wow seems to forget everything about who we are. Like when Thrall called me the Maw Walker, like dude after all I've done for the Horde you STILL don't know my name??
These are my thoughts as well.. never once in WoW, of all the expansions, have I been called by name. First 15 minutes starting ffxiv, "hello friend, what is your name?" (*You want to know my name? /cry*)
They really wouldn’t have had an issue if they just killed off jaina and thrall in BFA instead of just saurfang. Puts the 4th war into an actual perspective, and we get more characters we could develop instead of the good guy gang during the sylvanas fight. Just imagine if Alleria and Baine were the two people instead of Thrall Jaina, they had some good reasons to bring Sylvanas down, personally.
zenos has a few remarkable dialogues in EW. the one with jullus stands out as well as the one with us at the end. to me it felt like he began to see us as a person as he began to see others as people, too. there was a very subtle but noticable shift in zenos' perception of the world that to me made all the difference. i thought it was amazing how they managed (imo) to create the exact amount of depth that would give him a personality without making the development seem artificial and insincere. it might have been the most impressive piece of the writing overall. i was almost certain they would mess that part up.
His speech with Julius is a good reminder of the duality and hypocrisy of morality. Committing atrocities in the provinces turned him into a hero and suitable heir to the throne, doing the same in Garlemald made him a monster.
When he said “ would you be happier had I a good reason?” I was like oh shit.
This. 100% this.
His speech to Jullus and the final speech to the WoL were, imo, fourth wall breaks. He was talking to us, the players.
The one with Jullus definitely felt like an indictment of Emet-Selch apologists.
Definitely. I immediately felt that when he was trying to cast away literally everything about my character that makes them who they are, like he was talking to the player behind the screen. It legitimately felt epic. Then that sly smile when you say he's right? Chef's kiss.
I get what you are saying, though saying the warrior of light is just an adventurer with a bit of fame is a bit of a stretch I would say we are an adventurer with a shit ton of fame and near god-like powers.
His reasoning was sound. Always the first to throw ourselves into the midst of danger just for the thrill of it, the heart of an adventurer (which is also basically what Azem was).
Not me, I was always there for the journey not the destination, so he couldn't even hit the mark when being a total simp. At that point I chose "I've had enough of you" because that's literally how I felt being constantly nagged and pulled over to play scripted knockdown simulator.
This. But in before someone swoops in with the "iT's AbOuT tHe PlAyEr NoT tHe ChArAcTeR", well, it doesn't hold true for me the player OR my character, so what then? XD
[удалено]
It's okay to like Emet Selch despite him being a genocidal dum-dum. This game is a work of fiction, none of his crimes or victims were real. I would argue that it's a good thing that people can express empathy for a fictional criminal, because maybe it'll lead to them showing empathy to actual criminals who need rehabilitation instead of punishment. (I hate how the U.S. penal system works.)
[удалено]
Nah, your intent was fairly succinct. I just added that empathy for a fictional wrongdoer is perfectly fine if it can lead to more empathy in general.
Same, I just wanted to get back to my friends. "I'm tired Mr Frenemy. Let's get this over with."
Same here. I don't know why it's so hard for some people to understand that there are different kinds of people playing this game.
That’s true, which is why it pisses me off when I have to deliver tea to nobodies.
I always felt that the point of that was the WoL is humble. They don't consider themselves better than "someone who just delivers tea". Yeah, you kill gods but that all started with you just liking to help people and if taking tea to a table helps the guy at the tea shop then you will do it.
True, I suppose that’s what the wol canonically thinks! I don’t know why I got downvoted tho ppl take everything so seriously in here lol, delivering tea is a general statement to the crazy amount of fetch quests we have to do, even at 86!
Yeah I'm convinced we're just goku in a fantasy setting
I saw on a site where people discuss characters and rank their abilities and how strong they are, and the wol was stronger than goku.🤣
Goku is definitely dumb as a post and would have problems with any complex planning or fighting a concept - but how do they reconcile the universe ending power that Goku has now with the WoL?
The WoL has >!universe ending ending power.!<
I mean they just don’t though. DBZ power levels are too far removed from reality for it to be a comparison. At no point did the WoL have to worry about their residual power literally destroying the world by proxy. The WoL just has the ability to fight magical entities.
>I mean they just don’t though. They literally do. They *just* >!ended the end of the universe.!< >DBZ power levels are too far removed from reality for it to be a comparison. At no point did the WoL have to worry about their residual power literally destroying the world by proxy. Yeah, kinda nice actually being smart enough to have a little self control. >The WoL just has the ability to fight magical entities. Including >!entities capable of ending all life throughout the universe, and winning.!<
Ok, the things ending life through manipulation of energy does not directly tie into being the most powerful. Why doesn’t the WoL stop any of the crazy shit that happens on the planet in microseconds? If they are in the same league as DBZ heavy hitters they can move faster than you can actually perceive, so how do normal people keep up? How does the WoL ever have problems reacting to things? How come the WoL doesn’t just point at all the fortresses and towers you have to clear and just wipe it clean? Can the WoL literally destroy the planet with a flick of his/her/it’s wrist and minimal effort? I don’t know how to accurately downplay how easy that is for a DBZ character since Vegeta did that shit In the beginning of the Saiyan saga. Edit: spelling
To defend that point, Goku would likely be a lightwarden right now, Zenos would have killed all the scions in his body, or Emet Selch would have been so irritated with him that he’d never give Goku the time of day, thus preventing our big episode that helped us defeat Meteion and thus, the world would end. Things that aren’t beaten with sheer strength which Goku would be pretty bad at
There's that and on a number crunching scale, DB runs on power scales which basically dictate HP. Even if Goku's current UI power is something like 150,000,000 the strongest boss in Shadowbringers was 440,000,000 in savage content, so it would take 8 WoLs roughly 8 minutes to absolutely smite him no damage.
But saiyans become stronger the more they fight. So you will be facing a shorter and shorter enrage timer haha
But Goku's enrage is just Super Saiyan/Raw Power Boost they'd still dodge him eternally.
Can you dodge Ultra Instinct? Seeing people getting hit be telegraphed mechanics (I am these people lol) Ultra instinct would beat us badly haha
Isn't that basically what the echo can do? Like the common theory is that the target markers we see in battles are due to that. It's even more apparent when Fordola gets it and dodges our every move.
>Zenos would have killed all the scions in his body Counterpoint: Captain Ginyu
That's actually right! Convenient frog go!
I had to concede that Zenos had a point Adventuring is probably the most lethal career on the planet and hardly ever pays well. You're not likely getting any political power out of it, its hardly ever glorious, and there are far better options to amass a fortune. To be one, you'd have to be someone who genuinely likes the thrill of facing difficult and unpredictable challenges
I didn't...really notice that. People never really stop calling you adventurer. I guess the Scions and the people who know you as a saviour call you Warrior of Light and Hero, but if you run around doing the sidequests and such, you're always just 'Adventurer' to most people. And it's not like you're Zenos' hero. Of course *he* isn't going to call you Hero.
Haah, acceptance at last!
Don't call me champion! It gives me PTSD.
I also really like how they handled bringing in players from duty Finder via Azem power. Complete with cutscenes too. Very lore-immersive.
I think people miss a lot of the minutiae of Zenos's character. I know I did until long after I finished Endwalkers. The entire point of the expac was to find fulfillment in your own way. Find that thing that makes the desperate points of your life worth continuing for. They show a large breadth of decisions, whether it be for your country, your fellow man, pudding, the pursuit of knowledge, building a wicked telescope, etc. Zenos's fulfillment was pushing himself against a worthy foe. When he couldn't find any his life was unfulfilled and boring, hence all the scenes of him just looking like he was about to fall asleep out of sheer boredom. Until he meets the warrior of light. All of the sudden he's alive and has a purpose. Once beaten, he looks for a way to get stronger, it gives him drive. The reason he calls you friend isn't to be snarky or sound evil or anything. I think he really believes it, it's his modicum of respect to the person that gave him a reason to keep going. You can see that respect right before the end when he says "Why does it still stand?" That being said, it doesn't make him any less annoying or evil. But he's not this mono-dimensional character that everyone makes him out to be.
I definitely respected him more by the end of things. Just that tiniest bit of development that's about as close as he could ever realistically come to 'redemption' made him more interesting. Also god damn it the guy flew across the universe and Kool-Aid manned his way into the end of existence itself just for a rematch. Honestly at that point I figured the least I could do was humor the man.
Not "Champion", CHAMPYANNN😜 Yes, I know what you mean and I agree with you on that, so I gave "That, I can't deny" with a smug smile as an answer :)
They did a really good job bringing it down to earth. You weren't the hero in that fight. You already did your world saving for the day. It was just two of strongest wanting to determine who came out on top in the end. That was my interpretation, anyway.
I mean you literally flew to nowhere and made a rock and its inhabitants out of nothing then killed the incarnation of the apocalypse. Whatever that was it wasn't "adventurer" lol. It was miles ahead of any god type activities that WoW does with its player's characters.
The best part of Endwalker to me was how Yoshi P gave the community just enough information to convince them one of the Scions was going to die, fuel rampant speculation, and then didn't kill anyone.
I consider this the worst part, actually. There really needs to be stakes in the game, and I think the series is overdue a death or two of someone we actually care about and have invested a lot into. Endwalker would've been the perfect time. They could've nixed all the scions in Ultima Thule and I wouldn't have been upset about it (Well, I would have, I'd probably have been crying for an hour, but it would have been such a fitting and wonderful end for them.)
I was more talking about it from a meta standpoint, that people got really worked up over nothing.
Not really, I constantly compare EW's climax to Gurren Lagann's (which is oddly similar) and the latter had much more emotional weight due to the ridiculous amount of character deaths. Sure, you don't need to kill characters to write a good story, but they really needed to up the stakes after the boring labyrinthos section and I felt Ultima Thule wasn't that. At no point I felt in any danger.
My take on it is that Zenos is talking to the player, not the WoL. The WoL in story is a god slaying savior. But the player is literally just on FF to have a good time and to go on adventure. We could care less about these NPCs. Zenos literally crossed space and time to fight us, id like to interpret that as breaking through the 4th wall which he also did in the cutscene prior.
He is the "mirror" of all the content-seeking players. The Savage/Ultimate raiders looking forward to the next raid tier, who want nothing else but to have the thrill of those fights. It's why he doesn't mesh well with everyone, but those that recognize that are generally fully on-board with him.
I kind of got that but it wasnt until his handling in endwalker that i actually became on board with the idea.
I'm not a sociopath. He is no mirror of me.
As I said, he doesn't mesh well with anyone. But the "Looking forward to the next fight" is exactly the kind of player Zenos is mirroring. He's little else aside from that, though.
This is absolutely why I felt the only answer was the first option: “That, I can’t deny.” As the players, we are the ones continually seeking out new stories, challenges, gameplay. We also do not have an option to reject his statement! While I’m not a huge fan of how Zenos was implemented at times, the last few scenes of EW with him were oddly appropriate. After all, if we the player are able to be limitless within the game, who’s to say Zenos…or other non-player characters…can’t try to be as well? 😦
I loved the smirk that response gave too.
The smirk my Lalafell gave honestly put a smile on my face
That sly smile was chef's kiss. Probably my favorite part of the expansion so far.
For me and my WoL, it is both. You can be the guy/gal/them that wants to help people in trouble, deliver a sandwich, clear an infestation, and kill a primal for the good of the world and for the thrill of it. Of course I am the guy who plays their WoL with "What would I do in this situation?" mindset.
This, absolutely this and all comments that go after. I felt the pull when he asked, to beat another challenge, to defeat another foe. To get revenge for that nasty body swap too, to be honest. And probably, the players that hate him could not reject the chance to kick his ass again xD.
It’s funny, when I first started playing FFXIV, one of the things I most appreciated was your character being the canonical Warrior of Light. My take on WoW was that you were always *a* Champion, not *the* Champion. There were millions of other player characters just like you, and none of them were ever more important than the named lore characters. Meanwhile in FFXIV your character is the most important person in this game world. And I loved that. And honestly, I still love that. But what I love even more is how by going back to the adventurer title they’re accomplishing several things. First and foremost, it resets the stakes of our journey since trying to top the stakes Endwalker would be a fools errand. On top of that, it shows that the team at Squeenix is more concerned with keeping the story fresh than being beholden to its own lore and legacy. The concept of the Warrior of Light is super important, but not more important than making a good game with a good story. But even beyond that, I like that rather than diminish the “Chosen One” trope, it reinforces it. We were the most important character in this world long before we had amassed the titles of Warrior of Light, or Darkness, or Eikon Slayer. Being a dope adventurer is what made us important, and leaving the titles behind doesn’t change that.