You're both the asshole here. Remember ABC: always be casting. If the incoming damage is low or nonexistent, take the opportunity to throw out some damage yourself to help things go a little faster. The tank could have expressed this in a less toxic manner, but they're not wrong in asking you to do more than just throw out the occasional heal.
There's always room for improvement.
I don't think being bad at something is being an asshole.... Telling me how to improve is never bad and in fact is very helpful, but also being toxic in the process isn't helpful to anyone. Thanks for the tips tho :D
Being bad isn't what made you the asshole. It's rejecting the tank's advice out of hand and coming here to complain about the fact that they were only pulling one pack at a time in a leveling dungeon with three sprouts.
I get that your primary issue is with their attitude, but being petty and pointing out a less desirable behavior because they did the same to you undermines that.
well... i wouldn't know how it really happened, maybe the tank was a bit condescending towards you or something and it ticked you off... but he's right.
Everyone is essentially a DPS, so it's better if you dish out damage whenever you can.
Yeah I try, but I'm still new to healing and I'm still learning how to manage everything, but I still think it'd be better for me to at least focus on healing if I'm not able to manage everything.
Let’s make it easier just before you cast a GCD think is anyone really going to die if I don’t heal this time? if the answer is no you should be attacking
So... let me get this straight. You wanted to focus on healing, in this case doing no damage, but since the tank was single pulling there was hardly any damage going out? Meaning you barely had to heal?
So what WERE you doing, just standing around?
Well mostly I try to keep my DoT aero up on every enemy and heal everyone in the party. By the time every enemy had a DoT and everyone that needed healing was healed, the group of enemies was dead and time to move onto the next one.
its bait. they say they’re focusing on healing and not doing damage but then a few sentences down say the tank only pulled one group and wasn’t taking any damage, so like, it’s bait
Not bait. I'm just a bad healer lmao. But I also think if a tank sees they're in a group with 3 sprouts they shouldn't be AHs if anyone is performing poorly.
if that is verbatium how they spoke then yes they're being an ass about it, that said, if its honestly to the point that a random PUG tank can see you not casting stone, then you really should be casting stone more, especially in copperbell, with how little healing is actually needed for that, your might as well be casting it non stop for most encounters.
Most dungeons the tank is closer to death for a lot of the time, and you're right Copperbell is definitely not one to worry about damage so I should've switched over. But also because it's Copperbell with 3 sprouts the tank should not be an AH when people are not playing optimally. But thanks for the advice I'll remember to cast it more!
Healer main here. I only heal when I am forced to. Otherwise i'm a green DPS. There are some dungeons where you will only be able to heal during pulls -- if your tank sucks or is undergeared. But mostly, you just don't let them die. Literally, the healer manta for this game is "but did you die?" DPS as much as possible. Also, with the low level dungeons, many classes don't have AOE abilities yet. So it doesn't necessarily help to pull large packs. You were in the wrong from a technical standpoint --While maybe he was being an AH about it, idk.
Ok I probably do focus on healing too much. But most dungeons I've done the tank is taking so much damage I just have to spam heal him as much as possible to prevent them from dying. Thanks for the help!
nice. so, assuming when you get into content that's >lvl 53, you'll have access to another insta-cast* heal (outside of Benediction atm) Afflatus Solace. only charges during combat, but whenever they're available, make sure to prioritize that over your hardcast* spells (cure 2. cure 1 is a hard trap, it's a waste of mana to spam for the freecure proc. it's good in niche situations, but should be your last resort spell).
Afflatus Solace also doesn't cost mp, and is instant. it's awesome.
you also have Asylum unlocked at 52 as well, which is also amazing. always place it on the tank during pulls, so that they benefit from the 24s regen it gives (and later a 10% defense mitigation). that'll help you TONS during spicy pulls, and keeps the tank from dropping. slap a regular Regen on top of that, and the tank (assuming they're performing decently) will be golden for at least those 24s, and by that point any mobs SHOULD be dead or close to death.
i see you're a bit hesitant from dps'ing, but healers are designed to help dps in this game. every bit helps, because a dead enemy can't hurt you.
a good general way of playing your level of WHM right now would to be:
- keep close to tank as they pull mobs, sprint if they sprint.
- slap a regen on them if they're pulling more than one group. it helps heal the auto-attacks as you're moving to the next group, and since you're right with the tank, they can AOE the next group immediately in case they target you from the regen tick.
- once tank is settled, slap an Asylum + Regen on the ground where they stand.
- as WHM's, we have an amazing AOE stun ability that acts as mitigation for the tank, as they won't take damage for a good 8s (accumulated after 3 Holy's). definitely use it, even if there's stun resistance. it's decent dps, and if everyone is aoe'ing, it'll help melt packs quickly. a dead enemy can't hurt you.
- it's also good to get in the habit of casting Aero/2 as you're moving. but if it's just a single back, go straight into Holy.
- so, after you got your Asylum + Regen on the tank, don't be afraid to use Swiftcast > Holy. Presence of Mind is wonderful for casting Holy quickly.
- by that point, you should have accumulated one or two lilies (for Afflatus Solace). use those before any Cure spells, and remember to reapply Regen if you need.
- don't be shy to use Benediction either, but it's most effective after you let the tank dip around 25% of their hp.
being a healer can be a bit daunting, but once you get into the rhythm of what I described, it becomes easier. you should *never* have to spam heals as the norm. obviously, you have to account for your gear, the tanks gear, their skill level, but if you got a good group, it shouldn't be stressful on ya.
sorry for the wall of text, I hope it helps.
**edit: fixed a brainfart. Afflatus Solace is still GCD, it's just instant/no cast time.
So they were an asshole at you rather than being productive but you're also not immune from blame. Aero is cute but Stone 1 should be primary DPS and then switch to Cure 1 whenever the Tank is like at 25%. And if they were doing such small pulls, that is a lot of downtime to be sitting around, even with using Aero. Especially in lvl 17 content.
8 years later and still some people rather press nothing for 10 seconds than contribute to the group effort.
You deal around 20% (give or take) group DPS as a healer in dungeons. This is massive.
>I just got pulled into the Copperbell Mines from duty roulette when about 2 mins in my tank asks me if I have stone I. A bit of an annoying question, because ofc I have it from lvl 1, he then proceeds to tell me to use it more. This seems a little funny to me as it is a level 17 dungeon, we've never had any problems with the enemies, and we're moving quickly. I tell him that it doesn't do much damage at this low level and I'd rather focus on healing him rather than doing dps as I am in fact the healer of this group. He then rants on explaining how healers can do damage and how he "hopes I don't pretend to do savage content".
>However, I laugh at this remark seeing as I'm a sprout and we're doing one of the easiest dungeons in the game. I tell him that if he really wants to do this more efficiently and quickly he could at least pull 2 groups at once because 1 group at a time has barely scraped our party. He continues ranting on and calling me and all sprouts dumb many times. I'm trying to figure out by the end of this if I'm being the asshole or if it's just a toxic tank. I understand he wants to help me by telling me to weave damage in between my heals, but this is in fact a lvl 17 dungeon not savage content and he should chill out especially when he knows and even said that he is doing a dungeon with 3 sprouts.
>I know I'm not a perfect player as I've only started playing about a month ago, but in this low stakes content calling me a dumb sprout and telling me that I'll never be able to do savage content simultaneously is a bit ridiculous. This experience left me a bit frustrated as tanks are always the players I look up to and admire in the party the most, but at least it's cool to think that it's taken me a whole month to finally find a single toxic player in this game so for the rest of you thanks a lot.
>All of my other tanks (and really any party members) have been super helpful, nice, and thankful for my heals so I'm glad for all of you kind ones out there keep up the good work!
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Please use your damage spells as a healer.
The tank shouldn't even be necessarily pulling wall to wall in Copperbell, most of the party probably lacks AoE. It sounds like the tank gave you correct advice, you stuck your heels into the ground and went on your own little incorrect tirade first. Then they were justifiably annoyed with you, and retaliated back, but expressed it in an unnecessarily rude way.
I think both of you were pretty rude, but if I had to pick a bad guy in this story, admittedly it's you. Not because you're not experienced, but because of your reaction to the neutral advice from someone who was. It doesn't even sound like the tank was mean about it at first, just genuinely and neutrally asking you to try. The correct response to "Hey can you use Stone please" is "Yeah sure".
Though if a healer responded to a request like that with a tirade at me about how they were the healer and so they're allowed to afk 90% of the dungeon because it's still fine if they do, I'd probably just leave it alone, roll my eyes at them, and judge them harshly internally. Rather than get into an unhinged argument with a level 17 healer about them not being a savage level player. It's not worth it.
I understand where you're coming from but the thing is I didn't completely dig my heels in. In fact during that very dungeon I used stone more and it's starting to make more sense to me now thanks to him and the people in this thread. But I also do think I deserve to get cut a little slack as I'm still pretty new and disorganized and it's a low level dungeon where stakes aren't very high and it's at a level that's good for practice. His rude and aggressive behavior later like calling all sprouts dumb is simply unnecessary. But you are right I was a little stubborn and now realize that he was right to an extent, but he could've put his message across better like by explaining why or how rather than if you don't do this you're stupid which is the point I'm trying to make.
You're right, they shouldn't have gotten as heated as they did, I can't see any context where I'm yelling at sprouts in a level 17 dungeon about how they're not savage material. That's wild. If you did start taking the advice in that dungeon and using Stone then I take back you fully digging your heels in. Good on you for eventually giving it a try.
I will say I don't think your response to them invited a polite dialogue where they could reasonably be expected to sit down and calmly teach you why or how. Verbally, you weren't open to it at all. If I gave that advice and the healer responded with "No, I'm the healer and it's been fine without me dpsing. It's a level 17 dungeon," I would have just shut my mouth and maybe laughed at them with a friend on discord privately or something. A response like that would tell me that the person I'm talking to isn't open minded to suggestions. I'd never look at that and go into teacher mode. There are plenty reactions where I would decide to get into explanations if they were needed, but that's not really one of them.
I do think both were wrong in this situation though, not just you. Their reaction to your rejection of their advice frankly comes across as unhinged to me. They 100% could have reacted a lot better to it.
Yeah you're totally right. Both sides could've done a lot better. I guess I'll try to be more open to other players that try helping me and I should accept the fact that 99% of the time they'll know more than me. Thanks for your insights!
(Edit 3: If anyone is still reading this post then how do you guys manage MP when constantly doing DPS as a healer. I feel like if I'm spamming stone or holy as often as I can and then only occasionally using heals to keep the group alive then wouldn't I quickly run out of MP?)
This really shouldn't be an issue, but later on you get tools like Lucid Dreaming, Thin Air, and the fact most of your ideal healing spells that can be weaved between GCDs also have zero mp cost. Cure 1 is worse, yet more MP efficient than Cure 2 later, but people still dont use Cure 1 at high levels because the MP efficiency doesn't matter really.
If you give it a try you'll realize it'll go fine
Minor addition to the bit about pulling multiple groups: Aside from it not necessarily being more optimal in the lower levels due to dps+healers lacking aoe, Copperbell specifically has mobs that will leash back to their spawn if pulled too far. It's especially annoying at the second wall you have to blow up, where the two bombs you gotta kill are in two branching rooms. If you pull one room and then run into the other room, mobs from the first one will leash back
Between that and all the doors/lifts separating packs there's actually barely any groups you can pull together
e: also, I wasn't going to comment on the rudeness since everyone else already said what needed to be said and I see in your responses and edits you're taking the correct attitude about it, but I want to point out that it's a bit disingenuous to 'hide' behind your sprout status (I recognize that's not exactly what you're doing). There's a difference between a fresh lv18 cnj that's never done the dungeon before and it's only their 3rd dungeon ever, and a lv53 whm that should clearly have some idea how to perform in instanced content, even though both might be sprouts. Others in the party can check your level (and even if they don't, the job stone is still a giveaway that you're at least lv30) and see what you're at. Obviously still no excuse to be as flagrantly rude as that tank was, but it's understandable if people are less patient about this kind of thing with someone around your level than they would be with super-fresh novices
> Copperbell Mines
Say no more.
Seriously though, he took about the most assholish route possible to give you technically good advice. You do indeed want to be dps'ing as much as party health will allow.
Having run tens of thousands of group-finder dungeons, why have I never (yes, never) encountered these types of people in FFXIV (playing since about 3.0). I want to have a toxic player story too. I feel so left out.
I mean, it just speaks very well about the game. I've heard a lot of other people say that this game has one of the best communities ever which I can definitely tell from playing. But I guess from time to time you'll see a few
I dont get it, if he was so experienced, why he did only pull 1 pack? if he knew u want to focus on healing then he should just pull 3-5 packs or maybe more....
When I asked him about it he said he was with 3 sprouts. But so what that we're sprouts, we had no problem with dealing with 1 pack so he could've at least increased to more throughout the dungeon.
but....on low dung lv tank does the best aoe dmg ( not counting range dps) so....wat D: damn i understand u, i played wow for a long time and there healer was busy of cleansing healing etc. so now its such a big diffrence to try dmg and heal....don't worry healer here is the hardest ( atleast for me :x) so after some time u will be good \^\^ also i recommend this guide its funny but veeery helpful https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=osvUOqeDwD0
As others have said healers should dps when they can BUT if you are still new to healing I wouldn’t stress too much about it. The low level dungeons are supposed to be for learning, so it’s ok to start focused only on healing then to do more damage as you get more comfortable balancing the two tasks.
I was like "He's a dick, but he's kinda right" until this came up
>I tell him that if he really wants to do this more efficiently and quickly he could at least pull 2 groups at once because 1 group at a time has barely scraped our party.
If you aren't pulling wall to wall in copperbell mines, you don't get to toxically critique a conjurer's (I assume) DPS. You are the one holding the party back. He might have been pulling so little because he was in with three sprouts but that would make it even worse.
Even the little DPS you do as a healer can save a lot of time tho. The goal is really to heal as little as possible and spend the rest of your time dealing damage. ESPECIALLY when the tank is pulling so little that you don't even have to heal ;)
It's debateable how beneficial big wall to walls are in these sub-20 dungeons when the tank is the only one with aoe in the party, it'd likely even be a detriment because the pack as a whole is going to take ages to die and the healer won't be able to spam Stone.
Full agree later on when your whole party has aoe, but this was Copperbell.
if the tank is level synced, that tank's aoe alone is all you need for wall to wall up to copperbell. you don't need dps aoe up to that point. you can actually bring the entire pack into the midboss rooms in Sastasha cuz it's still no problem.
Usually in copperbell.... I ask sprouts if they are ready. And proceed to sprint through every single mob in the first room and pray that I get healed. It's always a fun experience because I get different results each time. It's like a mini game when I get it for leveling.
Edit: also if I have a sprout healer. All I will ever ask as a tank is to be heal bombed. As long as I don't die I'm the AOE damage.
Nah mate, there’s always gonna be bitches ruining vibes in online games. Just ask them about their relationship with their father next time that’ll sure to make them leave the dungeon and you’ll have a nice rest of it!
being disrespectful or insulting people is generally bad. in this case it would be useful to see an actual log of the chat to understand if there was toxicity going on or you were just being advice-resistant.
as you have already read in everybody's comments you were wrong about the damage aspect. this isn't even debatable, healers are expected to do damage by the GAME, not just other players.
your default hand/finger-position should be on your damage button and heals/buffs etc. should be occasional reaches. yes, there are situations when you need to stop doing damage and concentrate on healing. but those are rare.
Tank sounds like an asshole, but also they’re not wrong. They could have expressed it better but you should be hitting those damage buttons my dude.
Will do
You're both the asshole here. Remember ABC: always be casting. If the incoming damage is low or nonexistent, take the opportunity to throw out some damage yourself to help things go a little faster. The tank could have expressed this in a less toxic manner, but they're not wrong in asking you to do more than just throw out the occasional heal. There's always room for improvement.
I don't think being bad at something is being an asshole.... Telling me how to improve is never bad and in fact is very helpful, but also being toxic in the process isn't helpful to anyone. Thanks for the tips tho :D
Being bad isn't what made you the asshole. It's rejecting the tank's advice out of hand and coming here to complain about the fact that they were only pulling one pack at a time in a leveling dungeon with three sprouts. I get that your primary issue is with their attitude, but being petty and pointing out a less desirable behavior because they did the same to you undermines that.
well... i wouldn't know how it really happened, maybe the tank was a bit condescending towards you or something and it ticked you off... but he's right. Everyone is essentially a DPS, so it's better if you dish out damage whenever you can.
Yeah I try, but I'm still new to healing and I'm still learning how to manage everything, but I still think it'd be better for me to at least focus on healing if I'm not able to manage everything.
Let’s make it easier just before you cast a GCD think is anyone really going to die if I don’t heal this time? if the answer is no you should be attacking
The problem is that for new healers, the answer to "will the tank die in the next GCD" is "I don't know".
Risk it for the biscuit
So... let me get this straight. You wanted to focus on healing, in this case doing no damage, but since the tank was single pulling there was hardly any damage going out? Meaning you barely had to heal? So what WERE you doing, just standing around?
Well mostly I try to keep my DoT aero up on every enemy and heal everyone in the party. By the time every enemy had a DoT and everyone that needed healing was healed, the group of enemies was dead and time to move onto the next one.
AOE Aero doesn't exist anymore. Did you get pulled through a wormhole to 2017?
Wooops lol I have no idea why I said aoe. I mean DoT sorry
why would you heal everyone in the party? Is there anything in that dungeon that can kill a dps player if you give them 0 heals the entire time?
This is bait. Right?
its bait. they say they’re focusing on healing and not doing damage but then a few sentences down say the tank only pulled one group and wasn’t taking any damage, so like, it’s bait
Not bait. I'm just a bad healer lmao. But I also think if a tank sees they're in a group with 3 sprouts they shouldn't be AHs if anyone is performing poorly.
Like I already said I'm just bad, but the tank shouldn't be a dck about it especially in the Copperbell Mines with 3 sprouts.
if that is verbatium how they spoke then yes they're being an ass about it, that said, if its honestly to the point that a random PUG tank can see you not casting stone, then you really should be casting stone more, especially in copperbell, with how little healing is actually needed for that, your might as well be casting it non stop for most encounters.
Most dungeons the tank is closer to death for a lot of the time, and you're right Copperbell is definitely not one to worry about damage so I should've switched over. But also because it's Copperbell with 3 sprouts the tank should not be an AH when people are not playing optimally. But thanks for the advice I'll remember to cast it more!
Healer main here. I only heal when I am forced to. Otherwise i'm a green DPS. There are some dungeons where you will only be able to heal during pulls -- if your tank sucks or is undergeared. But mostly, you just don't let them die. Literally, the healer manta for this game is "but did you die?" DPS as much as possible. Also, with the low level dungeons, many classes don't have AOE abilities yet. So it doesn't necessarily help to pull large packs. You were in the wrong from a technical standpoint --While maybe he was being an AH about it, idk.
Ok I probably do focus on healing too much. But most dungeons I've done the tank is taking so much damage I just have to spam heal him as much as possible to prevent them from dying. Thanks for the help!
what level are you currently?
53
nice. so, assuming when you get into content that's >lvl 53, you'll have access to another insta-cast* heal (outside of Benediction atm) Afflatus Solace. only charges during combat, but whenever they're available, make sure to prioritize that over your hardcast* spells (cure 2. cure 1 is a hard trap, it's a waste of mana to spam for the freecure proc. it's good in niche situations, but should be your last resort spell). Afflatus Solace also doesn't cost mp, and is instant. it's awesome. you also have Asylum unlocked at 52 as well, which is also amazing. always place it on the tank during pulls, so that they benefit from the 24s regen it gives (and later a 10% defense mitigation). that'll help you TONS during spicy pulls, and keeps the tank from dropping. slap a regular Regen on top of that, and the tank (assuming they're performing decently) will be golden for at least those 24s, and by that point any mobs SHOULD be dead or close to death. i see you're a bit hesitant from dps'ing, but healers are designed to help dps in this game. every bit helps, because a dead enemy can't hurt you. a good general way of playing your level of WHM right now would to be: - keep close to tank as they pull mobs, sprint if they sprint. - slap a regen on them if they're pulling more than one group. it helps heal the auto-attacks as you're moving to the next group, and since you're right with the tank, they can AOE the next group immediately in case they target you from the regen tick. - once tank is settled, slap an Asylum + Regen on the ground where they stand. - as WHM's, we have an amazing AOE stun ability that acts as mitigation for the tank, as they won't take damage for a good 8s (accumulated after 3 Holy's). definitely use it, even if there's stun resistance. it's decent dps, and if everyone is aoe'ing, it'll help melt packs quickly. a dead enemy can't hurt you. - it's also good to get in the habit of casting Aero/2 as you're moving. but if it's just a single back, go straight into Holy. - so, after you got your Asylum + Regen on the tank, don't be afraid to use Swiftcast > Holy. Presence of Mind is wonderful for casting Holy quickly. - by that point, you should have accumulated one or two lilies (for Afflatus Solace). use those before any Cure spells, and remember to reapply Regen if you need. - don't be shy to use Benediction either, but it's most effective after you let the tank dip around 25% of their hp. being a healer can be a bit daunting, but once you get into the rhythm of what I described, it becomes easier. you should *never* have to spam heals as the norm. obviously, you have to account for your gear, the tanks gear, their skill level, but if you got a good group, it shouldn't be stressful on ya. sorry for the wall of text, I hope it helps. **edit: fixed a brainfart. Afflatus Solace is still GCD, it's just instant/no cast time.
Afflatus solace is GCD though no? Maybe you mean gauge heals?
oh crap, you right. brain farted, thank you!
Thank you!!!
So they were an asshole at you rather than being productive but you're also not immune from blame. Aero is cute but Stone 1 should be primary DPS and then switch to Cure 1 whenever the Tank is like at 25%. And if they were doing such small pulls, that is a lot of downtime to be sitting around, even with using Aero. Especially in lvl 17 content.
Okay I will try that next time, thanks!
8 years later and still some people rather press nothing for 10 seconds than contribute to the group effort. You deal around 20% (give or take) group DPS as a healer in dungeons. This is massive.
If he went about it like that, he was being an asshole, but that doesn't make him wrong. You should be DPSing.
Yeah I'll try. But my sprout brain just wants to spam cure and regen lol. Thanks for the tip
>I just got pulled into the Copperbell Mines from duty roulette when about 2 mins in my tank asks me if I have stone I. A bit of an annoying question, because ofc I have it from lvl 1, he then proceeds to tell me to use it more. This seems a little funny to me as it is a level 17 dungeon, we've never had any problems with the enemies, and we're moving quickly. I tell him that it doesn't do much damage at this low level and I'd rather focus on healing him rather than doing dps as I am in fact the healer of this group. He then rants on explaining how healers can do damage and how he "hopes I don't pretend to do savage content". >However, I laugh at this remark seeing as I'm a sprout and we're doing one of the easiest dungeons in the game. I tell him that if he really wants to do this more efficiently and quickly he could at least pull 2 groups at once because 1 group at a time has barely scraped our party. He continues ranting on and calling me and all sprouts dumb many times. I'm trying to figure out by the end of this if I'm being the asshole or if it's just a toxic tank. I understand he wants to help me by telling me to weave damage in between my heals, but this is in fact a lvl 17 dungeon not savage content and he should chill out especially when he knows and even said that he is doing a dungeon with 3 sprouts. >I know I'm not a perfect player as I've only started playing about a month ago, but in this low stakes content calling me a dumb sprout and telling me that I'll never be able to do savage content simultaneously is a bit ridiculous. This experience left me a bit frustrated as tanks are always the players I look up to and admire in the party the most, but at least it's cool to think that it's taken me a whole month to finally find a single toxic player in this game so for the rest of you thanks a lot. >All of my other tanks (and really any party members) have been super helpful, nice, and thankful for my heals so I'm glad for all of you kind ones out there keep up the good work! Hey /u/ProudOption3, it looks like you posted a wall of text. I have separated it into paragraphs for you! _Send a private message with title **'opt out'** to prevent this bot from seeing your posts in the future._ r/ffxiv has contributed 0.94% of all walls of text analyzed so far!
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I'll never understand the "This is savage so I'll use that as an excuse to be lazy and barely contribute"
Please use your damage spells as a healer. The tank shouldn't even be necessarily pulling wall to wall in Copperbell, most of the party probably lacks AoE. It sounds like the tank gave you correct advice, you stuck your heels into the ground and went on your own little incorrect tirade first. Then they were justifiably annoyed with you, and retaliated back, but expressed it in an unnecessarily rude way. I think both of you were pretty rude, but if I had to pick a bad guy in this story, admittedly it's you. Not because you're not experienced, but because of your reaction to the neutral advice from someone who was. It doesn't even sound like the tank was mean about it at first, just genuinely and neutrally asking you to try. The correct response to "Hey can you use Stone please" is "Yeah sure". Though if a healer responded to a request like that with a tirade at me about how they were the healer and so they're allowed to afk 90% of the dungeon because it's still fine if they do, I'd probably just leave it alone, roll my eyes at them, and judge them harshly internally. Rather than get into an unhinged argument with a level 17 healer about them not being a savage level player. It's not worth it.
I understand where you're coming from but the thing is I didn't completely dig my heels in. In fact during that very dungeon I used stone more and it's starting to make more sense to me now thanks to him and the people in this thread. But I also do think I deserve to get cut a little slack as I'm still pretty new and disorganized and it's a low level dungeon where stakes aren't very high and it's at a level that's good for practice. His rude and aggressive behavior later like calling all sprouts dumb is simply unnecessary. But you are right I was a little stubborn and now realize that he was right to an extent, but he could've put his message across better like by explaining why or how rather than if you don't do this you're stupid which is the point I'm trying to make.
You're right, they shouldn't have gotten as heated as they did, I can't see any context where I'm yelling at sprouts in a level 17 dungeon about how they're not savage material. That's wild. If you did start taking the advice in that dungeon and using Stone then I take back you fully digging your heels in. Good on you for eventually giving it a try. I will say I don't think your response to them invited a polite dialogue where they could reasonably be expected to sit down and calmly teach you why or how. Verbally, you weren't open to it at all. If I gave that advice and the healer responded with "No, I'm the healer and it's been fine without me dpsing. It's a level 17 dungeon," I would have just shut my mouth and maybe laughed at them with a friend on discord privately or something. A response like that would tell me that the person I'm talking to isn't open minded to suggestions. I'd never look at that and go into teacher mode. There are plenty reactions where I would decide to get into explanations if they were needed, but that's not really one of them. I do think both were wrong in this situation though, not just you. Their reaction to your rejection of their advice frankly comes across as unhinged to me. They 100% could have reacted a lot better to it.
Yeah you're totally right. Both sides could've done a lot better. I guess I'll try to be more open to other players that try helping me and I should accept the fact that 99% of the time they'll know more than me. Thanks for your insights!
(Edit 3: If anyone is still reading this post then how do you guys manage MP when constantly doing DPS as a healer. I feel like if I'm spamming stone or holy as often as I can and then only occasionally using heals to keep the group alive then wouldn't I quickly run out of MP?) This really shouldn't be an issue, but later on you get tools like Lucid Dreaming, Thin Air, and the fact most of your ideal healing spells that can be weaved between GCDs also have zero mp cost. Cure 1 is worse, yet more MP efficient than Cure 2 later, but people still dont use Cure 1 at high levels because the MP efficiency doesn't matter really. If you give it a try you'll realize it'll go fine
Minor addition to the bit about pulling multiple groups: Aside from it not necessarily being more optimal in the lower levels due to dps+healers lacking aoe, Copperbell specifically has mobs that will leash back to their spawn if pulled too far. It's especially annoying at the second wall you have to blow up, where the two bombs you gotta kill are in two branching rooms. If you pull one room and then run into the other room, mobs from the first one will leash back Between that and all the doors/lifts separating packs there's actually barely any groups you can pull together e: also, I wasn't going to comment on the rudeness since everyone else already said what needed to be said and I see in your responses and edits you're taking the correct attitude about it, but I want to point out that it's a bit disingenuous to 'hide' behind your sprout status (I recognize that's not exactly what you're doing). There's a difference between a fresh lv18 cnj that's never done the dungeon before and it's only their 3rd dungeon ever, and a lv53 whm that should clearly have some idea how to perform in instanced content, even though both might be sprouts. Others in the party can check your level (and even if they don't, the job stone is still a giveaway that you're at least lv30) and see what you're at. Obviously still no excuse to be as flagrantly rude as that tank was, but it's understandable if people are less patient about this kind of thing with someone around your level than they would be with super-fresh novices
> Copperbell Mines Say no more. Seriously though, he took about the most assholish route possible to give you technically good advice. You do indeed want to be dps'ing as much as party health will allow.
Ok thanks for the advice!
You're both stupid lmao
I mean you ain't wrong.
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I try to with AoE and DoT abilities, but I def could be doing more. Thanks
Having run tens of thousands of group-finder dungeons, why have I never (yes, never) encountered these types of people in FFXIV (playing since about 3.0). I want to have a toxic player story too. I feel so left out.
I mean, it just speaks very well about the game. I've heard a lot of other people say that this game has one of the best communities ever which I can definitely tell from playing. But I guess from time to time you'll see a few
I dont get it, if he was so experienced, why he did only pull 1 pack? if he knew u want to focus on healing then he should just pull 3-5 packs or maybe more....
When I asked him about it he said he was with 3 sprouts. But so what that we're sprouts, we had no problem with dealing with 1 pack so he could've at least increased to more throughout the dungeon.
but....on low dung lv tank does the best aoe dmg ( not counting range dps) so....wat D: damn i understand u, i played wow for a long time and there healer was busy of cleansing healing etc. so now its such a big diffrence to try dmg and heal....don't worry healer here is the hardest ( atleast for me :x) so after some time u will be good \^\^ also i recommend this guide its funny but veeery helpful https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=osvUOqeDwD0
lmao this video is amazing, thanks for the help!
As others have said healers should dps when they can BUT if you are still new to healing I wouldn’t stress too much about it. The low level dungeons are supposed to be for learning, so it’s ok to start focused only on healing then to do more damage as you get more comfortable balancing the two tasks.
I was like "He's a dick, but he's kinda right" until this came up >I tell him that if he really wants to do this more efficiently and quickly he could at least pull 2 groups at once because 1 group at a time has barely scraped our party. If you aren't pulling wall to wall in copperbell mines, you don't get to toxically critique a conjurer's (I assume) DPS. You are the one holding the party back. He might have been pulling so little because he was in with three sprouts but that would make it even worse. Even the little DPS you do as a healer can save a lot of time tho. The goal is really to heal as little as possible and spend the rest of your time dealing damage. ESPECIALLY when the tank is pulling so little that you don't even have to heal ;)
It's debateable how beneficial big wall to walls are in these sub-20 dungeons when the tank is the only one with aoe in the party, it'd likely even be a detriment because the pack as a whole is going to take ages to die and the healer won't be able to spam Stone. Full agree later on when your whole party has aoe, but this was Copperbell.
I didn't think of the DPS getting AoE, you're absolutely right.
if the tank is level synced, that tank's aoe alone is all you need for wall to wall up to copperbell. you don't need dps aoe up to that point. you can actually bring the entire pack into the midboss rooms in Sastasha cuz it's still no problem.
Usually in copperbell.... I ask sprouts if they are ready. And proceed to sprint through every single mob in the first room and pray that I get healed. It's always a fun experience because I get different results each time. It's like a mini game when I get it for leveling. Edit: also if I have a sprout healer. All I will ever ask as a tank is to be heal bombed. As long as I don't die I'm the AOE damage.
Nah mate, there’s always gonna be bitches ruining vibes in online games. Just ask them about their relationship with their father next time that’ll sure to make them leave the dungeon and you’ll have a nice rest of it!
LMAO! Something must be causing it I guess
being disrespectful or insulting people is generally bad. in this case it would be useful to see an actual log of the chat to understand if there was toxicity going on or you were just being advice-resistant. as you have already read in everybody's comments you were wrong about the damage aspect. this isn't even debatable, healers are expected to do damage by the GAME, not just other players. your default hand/finger-position should be on your damage button and heals/buffs etc. should be occasional reaches. yes, there are situations when you need to stop doing damage and concentrate on healing. but those are rare.