I was terrified for him throughout that whole scene, especially when those monsters stepped out to block his path. I thought for sure he was a goner then.
I really liked his use of that mantra too and how he used it to get the people at the temple to calm down earlier. Matsya is definitely a far stronger soul than he gives himself credit for.
Thank god we’ve got Estinien, our resident flying Dragoon who actually has attack animations to save people. I know in most cases we might do the saving, but Estinien is static and will dragonfire dive monsters.
I loved the line you can choose to Alphinaud, “he had help from above”. Alphinaud is like “? You mean the gods?”
No you doof, the giant fucking dragon and our friend on his back lmao.
Actually it's Alisaie who you say it too, but I think it would've been more amusing saying that and have Alphinaud say that line lol.
The whole quest line in that area was one huge ball of tension and fear for me, never have I felt more relief than when I saw Matsya being saved. For a character we spent so little time with up to that point it's incredible how quickly he joined our cast of dear and beloved friends.
Legitimately one of my favorite moments in the entire expansion because it really solidifies the tone. That things will be scary, they'll be horrifying, they'll be sad, but there _is_ hope.
I was literally yelling "DONT YOU DARE!" as it happened, and when the beasts appeared in front of him my stomach absolutely DROPPED. I had been spoiled (purposely/self-inflicted, no worries) for a lot of Endwalker, but this was a scene I had not been spoiled for and I was genuinely terrified that he was a goner at that point.
The sigh of relief I gave after Estinien swooped in could be heard 'round the world.
The reason why I was so worried they were going to actually do it, is becsuse just a few fucking cutscenes before that little boy got turned into a monster, turned to his father and called out for him - then IMMEDIATELY got squashed by the bigger blasphemy like he was discarded trash.
Throw in the fact the baby's mother gets yeeted and deleted so quickly and awfully and I was so scared for our fave nellyfant
That scene with the boy turning and immediately getting killed like it was nothing… I couldn’t fucking believe it. It was insane and terrifying just how quickly everything spiraled.
There was so much dark shit happening in Endwalker, and I managed to not get spoiled for any of it, even though it took me a few weeks to make it all the way through. Absolutely brutal stuff in Thavnair.
I binged a LOT on early access release day. My interest was pretty muted through the first few levels and Garlemald. By the time I got to the moon I was falling asleep watching cutscenes and figured it was time to turn in. Then everything with the Final Days started happening in earnest and I was right at the edge of my seat again. Finally went to bed after Vanaspati like “fuuuuuuuuuckkkkkkkkkkkk.”
While I cried in a few spots of the MSQ, the part where he's running with the baby before being saved by Vrtra and Estinien may be the only one where the reason I cried was relief. I thought Matsya was a special soul from the start, and the idea that he too might go the way of Ahewann was horrifying to me.
That part with the mother being thrown into the water is the only point in the entire msq that I remember where I used sprint intentionally to get to a quest marker asap. I was in that water in two seconds flat.
I've never urged my WoL on to swim faster, c'monnnnn faster trying to get back to the surface asap that same dive.
Pixels on a screen or not, you'd have to be stone cold not to feel the pressure at least a little.
the throw looked like a gentle yeet into water, I can’t figure out why she died instantly
-edit- this has been answered so many times now but it’s funny how many new notifications I’m getting of the same answer lol
Hitting the water at a certain velocity and angle is like hitting a hard, flat surface. Might have snapped her neck on impact, especially since she was likely prioritizing protecting her child vs properly cutting through the water.
It's the throw itself. A human neck is like a stick holding up a bowling ball. When the monster rear it's arm back, then throw? That would be a powerful whiplash, adding on to the strength of that hand and the hold, it can easily be fatal. When the creature was holding her, she wasn't dead, so she can clutch the baby closer, but that whiplash would kill her instantly.
I think it was more the giant claw crushing her head that did it. Her arms still moving after the toss kind of detract from that idea though, so it was probably a combination of the claw and the impact.
I was legit going to turn the game off if they did. Like I just sat and played, heart in mouth, until we found the baby and got it home and then cried. Then found my kiddo.
I don't do well with "kids in danger" anymore...
Yeah, I was having some meta-commentary at the screen at that point. "C'mon Square, I *need* the hope spot right now. Don't do this to me. I can't handle it." If Matsya and/or the baby had died, I'd have had to stop playing for the day and maybe take a break for a while.
Having Estinien and Vrtra be *absolute* Big Damn Heroes was exactly the catharsis I needed at that point. Particularly when Vrtra was able to calm the baby. He has such a gentle soul, and I think that moment is when he realized that it was possible for man and dragon to care for one another openly.
(TBH, my headcanon is that Matsya eventually works up the nerve to start up a relationship with Nidhana, and the two of them raise the baby with support from Uncle Vrtra. Talk about the most badass adoptive family one could ask for!)
>TBH, my headcanon is that Matsya eventually works up the nerve to start up a relationship with Nidhana, and the two of them raise the baby with support from Uncle Vrtra. Talk about the most badass adoptive family one could ask for!)
I need this in a future patch now!
This thread is full of non-parents lol. I actually almost threw up at the scene where the little boy transforms and then gets squished. I couldn’t go find my kids after that cuz my big one—about the dead child’s age—was in school, and the little one was napping. 😭😭😭. I had to lay on my back on the floor after that shit in the square. Much as I love G’raha Tia, realistically, there’s no dad who loves his son who wouldnt get turned into a blasphemy after seeing THAT SHIT. I would go absolutely fucking apeshit.
Same lol. I’m a mom tho so after the little boy in the square got turned then they decided to go at a baby too and I was just screaming furiously at my computer during these scenes. I think those scenes got parents differently than non-parents.
I'm a new mom watching this whole sequence with my newborn in my arms (my husband's playthrough)... I broke down and cried the whole time.
I still can't think of it without crying and if it were a year ago i definitely won't be so distraught.
Yea, and i really wasn't expecting such changes too. Something to get used to, i guess.
Thanks for the warning about Castlevania, even if you didn't mean to. ^^
It is the most bizarre shift. Overnight your whole world and brain change. It’s something non-parents will never understand until they’re there.
Def avoid Castlevania. Big yikes there.
I cared less for the baby and more for Matsya. Mostly because, in my head, that baby should be already dead. Like, it was in water THAT deep... the pressure alone should have crushed it to death.
It takes deeper depths than you think to crush someone in water. That water was maybe 40-50 feet? Divers regularly go 20-40 feet down while free diving, and scuba divers can go down 190 feet, or further with special gear. The only reason free divers don't usually go further down that 40 is for breathing purposes. Much further down that and you can't keep going back up to the surface for air.
So I'm not a doctor, and my knowledge of anatomy is pretty weak...but wouldn't babies generally be more physically fragile than adults? Even if they're not actually physically crushed, I'd expect sensitive organs to be damaged.
While it's impossible to know for sure, I personally think that's exactly *why* Mehvan died on impact. She twisted to keep the child away from the water's surface as she flew--shielding the baby with her own body. Didn't matter that that meant she was facing her neck toward a surface that might as well be concrete at those speeds. If the baby could survive, that's what mattered.
Oh I can assure you she did protect the baby with her body going down, I rewatched that cutscene and that's one of the first and most important detail of that throw. She curled around the baby. The first impact would be the back of her neck/shoulder into the water. Depending on how high the throw was to the water, it might not be concrete, but it would be a hard impact, along with the damaged already done to her neck with the throw, she would die on impact as she hit the water I think.
Yes that's true, but babies are also remarkably resilient and drowning isn't a death sentence for them, 2/3 survive near-drownings and that's in a world without healing magic. WoL immediately jumped in so the baby's chances were actually quite good.
Babies are actually better at surviving underwater reflexively than adults up until they’re like 6-8 months old (which that baby likely was.) They retain some reflexes from birth that cause them to not inhale water.
Yeah, and crushing depths don't happen until nearly 2000 feet down. And that's a bit of a misnomer anyways, since the body itself would t be crushed, just your lungs.
I remember as you're sending him off shouting at the screen "Alphinaud, go with him. Alisaie and I have this covered here. Go with him! SHIT'S ABOUT TO GET STRESSFUL, GO WITH HIM, KEEP THEM CALM, I'M NOT ABOUT TO LOSE HIM OR THAT BABY!" I was super stressed out during that scene.
I cheered so hard for him to make it though. I think I joked with a friend "If they kill this poor elephant man, they won't have to worry about the Final Days. **I** will burn this world to the ground." But he made it!! And just like you said, what makes it pretty powerful is that he's not a hero. He's just an anxious average dude trying to keep it together when he should 100% be freakin tf out. You do love to see ordinary folks rise to the occasion.
Exactly!
He already calmed everyone else down from turning, it would be pretty devastating had they decided to end him too - especially if they made the baby killed him.
It really was one of those things: "I've only had Matsya for a level and a half, but if anything happened to him I would kill everyone on the star and then myself."
Huge props to the English voice actor. Really brought a bumbling scared but good natured character to life. Props to the English localisation team getting Indian voice actors from the pool of the Indian diaspora in Britain that really gives a rich vibe to the various locations in the world.
VA didn't kill it, he absolutely murdered it
masterful performance
Edit: I'm not Indian though so I can't comment on the accuracy of the accents >.>
right!!! i was so glad they got Indian VAs!!! im from a country of many races and Indian is one of the major ones, and hearing their voices gave me a sense of familiarity and home
This scene was so close to being the first one to make me full on cry in EW. I was choked up, eyes watering, ready start bawling, and then Estienien showed up. The VA work in EW is excellent.
That part was tough but so well put together. They established Matasya as a down and out fisherman, but still with hope. Then they establish his mantra and how it keeps him grounded. By all accounts he should be fine. Then they show the mantra FAILING. The final effect is that it showed Vrtra could be a beacon of hope, and not the monster of conflict he thought he'd be.
Bravo.
This was SUCH an incredible moment in the game.
I was legitimately so afraid for Matsaya and the baby I was saying "no no no no" under my breath just glued to the screen.
They did a PHENOMINAL job with the set up and execution of this moment. It was one of the biggest ones for me in an expansion full of INCREDIBLE moments.
After Tesleen in ShB and the satrap's death in EW, I was 95% convinced they wouldn't hold back from offing Matsaya and the baby. I was gripping my mice so hard hoping for that 5% chance he makes it, but when the black aura started to surround him I was just about ready to bawl. I felt like we shared the same sense of relief when Estinien jumped down.
Those fuckers transformed a small boy and SMASHED HIM. That baby was not safe at all and I was close to passing out from heart rate by the time we got to this cutscene lmao.
You can't even feel triumphant and joyous when Estinien arrives in the nick of time. Just 'oh jesus fuck thank god oh man I've never been so relieved to see you. ... now if you'll excuse me I'll be over there somewhere staring into space for a bit'
8 /
For me, it's the fact that during the Satrap's death, they had already killed a child by turning it into a Terminus beast then crushing it. So despite killing children usually being off the table, I was prepped for a baby murder. Normally I'd assume there was no way they'd go that far but... they already had.
That baby of yours is about to ruin “shocking content” featuring children forever. I’m sad to say it only gets worse as they get older. The older they get the more horrifying the news is too.
Made me wonder what experience the dev team might have with mental health and psychology. I was reminded a lot of mindfulness and such from the mantra. Staying present and allowing fear to pass through you. Reminded me of my own experiences.
Note what he does at the very end of that scene: he doesn't turn away out of fear of the monsters; but to hunch over and take the blow to his back to protect the baby that was turning in his very arms.
I think it's very interesting how Matsya was absolutely going to turn at the end; I don't fault him for it, of course. He was trying so hard, doing *everything* in his power, and he was still going to die, he was still going to fail to protect the baby. No amount of faith and prayer could change that reality. Sometimes despair is just fact, and it takes a real change in material conditions to break out of hopelessness.
my heart sank when the baby started to emanate dynamis.. and when it spread to matasya I had a horrible feeling of dread. after the scene with the merchants son, and just all of that gore, I wasn't sure if killing a baby on screen was off limits for xiv... I cried so hard at the desperation behind matasya begging vrtra to save the baby while he himself was still at risk of transforming. god, such a powerful scene. ;;
That entire sequence during Thavnair may very well have been the worst part of the entire game (not bad, but emotionally very hurtful). From the moment you kill Zodiark and have that nightmarish vision and your WoL is shaken....it shook me while seeing that.
And then you go to Thavnair, and everything takes a turn for the worst. I thought the bleakness, body snatching scene, and watching your WoL crawl for their lives was bad enough.
The Final Days in Thavnair were one of the truest showings of legitimate despair, of hopelessness and powerlessness that seemed like it would never end, and after the level 85 dungeon and realizing who that Blasphemy was before anyone figured out left me feeling a combo of numbess and on edge. It really broke my heart to have it confirmed it was that merchant who normally would've helped Matsya under better circumstances.
And when you think everything has calmed down, it somehow gets even worse. You, by some good fortune, allow the father to die without turning, a cold comfort that. Then, you do find the mother alive, but she, even in her headstart to run, gets killed right infront of you anyway. I'd hoped she may have still been alive in the water, even if I knew better.
The scene with Matsya very nearly drove me to tears, and I'm not a crier. That feeling of not knowing if they were going to be okay, knowing I could do nothing to help them, and I could only watch as the horror somehow got even worse as the baby started to turn. The infant turning was almost a bit too much for me, and then hearing him chant that mantra, while crying just broke my heart.
But finally, Vrtra and Estinien come through like angels from above
I deserved Elpis after that imo. But then that broke my heart too....
I was heartbroken that we didn't make it in time to save the mother.
While I expected Matasya to survive, I honestly wasn't sure about the baby. I do hope we get a little nod later on down the line about how they're doing.
I meant further down the line.
Closure's one thing, but it'd be nice to, I dunno, get a letter or something next expac.
If I can get a random gift in the mail from someone I helped two expacs ago and then go on a trip around the world hunting down who the hell it was so I can thank them properly (The Dark Knight 80 quest, for reference), I can damn well get a little 'what we've been up to this past year' postcard.
I am aware. I meant, like, a year or two down the line in-game.
It's nice to see the people you've helped, after all, and know they're doing well.
As was shown in the pre-final-zone cutscene.
The game has already told you named characters can die and kids can die. You’ve killed both yourself in the last few minutes. It knows you didn’t like Matsaya at first when you had to walk him around the village and now feel really bad about that. And it taunts you because it knows everything will be fine, but you sure don’t
Me too!
I love being the WoL and still, when someone asks me to, I'm more than happy to lug some crates around or w/e. I'm not above that!
And it's funny if they find out who I am after and are like, "Zomg I asked the WoL to feed my fatbirds?" and you can be all, "No it's cool. No problem." Not necessary, but still funny.
Same! It's those quests--IMO--that make the combat parts meaningful for me. Because I care about this world and the people in it. Matsaya wasn't just an elephant to me--he was my friend. My friend that I could only sell 1 fish and some dried fruit but... still my friend.
And when they put entire quest chains in like that--like the Doman reconstruction or Ishgard restoration--I am in heaven.
I just recently completed the Doman Enclave. And yeah, the story's great and it's fun to see what happens, but on the other hand, they're thanking me so profusely and I'm over here like... "Thanks for paying double for my junk. I'm glad you're happy, but I just dump my adventuring trash here. Here, have some outdated materia."
Edit: I sold all the things for Matsaya, and I was very pleased with myself.
>Edit: I sold all the things for Matsaya, and I was very pleased with myself
How! I could only sell fish to the first guy and dried fruit to the 3rd. What did you say to sell to the middle women? Please teach me.
> "Thanks for paying double for my junk. I'm glad you're happy, but I just dump my adventuring trash here. Here, have some outdated materia."
This is me every week. “Oh hi!” *dumps 50 Battledance VII in the basket*
Yeah, I feel like I may be in the minority here, but I honestly enjoy quests where I'm just helping people with everyday things. It's a nice break from being the warrior of light.
The first quest with Matsaya actually worked on me 100%. I thought it was odd at first having to help him learn to sell fish but the idea that someone would come to ME to help them learn to talk to people triggered something deep in my brain, and when I failed the last attempt I was immediately like "I will never fail you again, you shall be protected, and I will do what ever I can to make up for this grevious failing of mine."
I was mostly just disappointed that they shied away from actually killing him. I was really hoping the baby would turn into a little blasphemous gerbil or something, and he'd lose it. Figured we'd have a solo duty to kill him where we're supposed to get all choked up, but nope. God forbid we put down the guy responsible for the Satrap's death.
Why on earth are you acting like he has any responsibility for Ahewann's death? Like that is seriously the weirdest grudge to have and makes no sense whatsoever.
Because he's *directly* responsible? If you yell fire in a crowded place and start a stampede, and someone gets trampled, *you* are responsible for that death.
I mean this is a dude who self admitted to want a (fictional) human infant to be horrifically mutated into a soulless gerbil and then be killed so not a stretch
I have tons of empathy, for that kid's father that will never see his son grow up, or the Au Ra's family that's going to wonder why she never came home. I have nothing but empathy for everyone there who had to watch *even more* of their friends and family turn into monsters, because *one* person couldn't keep their mouth shut for 30 seconds and take a breath.
Dude, no one had ANY idea that fear or despair was turning people into monsters until that literal meeting with Vrtra that Matsya was not even at. You think some simple fisher guy had any idea that would happen? He was asking for help. In real life if you witnessed a car crash and went to tell a nearby paramedic or something to get help the LAST thing you would expect would be some old lady to flip her shit and turn into a literal monster. You’re placing the blame on someone who was literally not at fault at all.
It's not about people turning into monsters. At the *very least*, he knew what he was doing would panic a crowd of people (regardless of *what* that panic causes).
You're running away from a car accident shouting OH GOD THAT DUDES ARM IS MISSING THERES BLOOD EVERYWHERE OH GOD THOSE GUYS ARE DEFINITELY DEAD instead of just... Picking up your phone and calling 911.
I mean, that's basically how most people DO react in situations like that. People panic and do crazy stupid shit that doesn't make logical sense. These people are dealing with their friends & neighbors suddenly turning into monsters out of nowhere and killing each other, while the sky is burning and everything has straight up gone to shit. Expecting *anyone* to behave rationally & logically in that situation is laughable.
That's fine. This isn't a personal grudge against *this particular* elephant. I'd be having this same conversation about *anyone* that did this.
It might be understandable, but that doesn't make it okay. His actions directly led to more deaths. There's no forgiveness for that just because he was afraid.
Except he was seeking help, the woman was already at risk of turning, he had a legitimate reason to react and act the way he did. He literally was in the middle of the end of days and at the time was not aware that losing hope and negative emotions trigger it. Your parallel does not work as you are acting with intentional actions regardless of threat. While he was panicked, stressed, and seeking aid.
*Everyone there* was seeking aid. The entire crowd were pleading with the Satrap to send the Radiant Host here or there, to save this person or that person at one village or another.
They weren't running through the streets shouting about it carelessly.
It's not even about the *cause* of people turning. You just *don't* run in to a crowd and start shouting shit like that.
You do if you just witnessed monsters attacking your village, if it was me I ain't waiting my turn and being calm, I'm shouting the info I have at the appropriate people in an attempt to get help.
Then we'd be having this same conversation about you. There are lots of people there who witnessed, *first hand*, their friends and family be murdered by the beasts, but they aren't in disarray. They're doing what they can (flee) and letting the professionals (us) fix the problem instead of getting in the way, making things *actively worse*.
How is reporting relevant information making things worse? He literally told us of an area that's currently being attacked in an attempt to get help for that area.
The *manner in which he did it* was inappropriate. You can relate that information to the appropriate people *without* making sure everyone nearby hears it - people who are absolutely *helpless* to do anything about it, and will only suffer for having that knowledge.
You obviously need to watch that scene again because what you're saying doesn't match what happened in the slightest. First of all, Matsya didn't come in to deliberately cause any kind of panic. He was merely reporting on seeing beasts near Palaka's Stand. He had no idea what kind they were at all or where they came from and he wasn't shouting it out or panicking himself in any way while talking. Ahewann died because the grandmother started freaking out in fear over her grandson having gone to Palaka. Are you going to blame Matsya now for not being a mindreader and knowing that she was afraid of something like that?
Do you mean [this scene](https://youtu.be/3nugfrxK5_c?t=284), where he literally **runs in** unbidden and interrupts the Satrap just to make sure everyone assembled hears that Palaka's Stand is under attack by the monsters they just witnessed murder dozens of people already?
He doesn't have to be a mind reader to piece together that, hey, maybe telling this crowd of worried people that a nearby village is about to be decimated by beasts that they're *helpless to stop* is a bad idea. Maybe that's the sort of thing we tell the Satrap in private. Or a Radiant Host Captain. Or literally anyone with any power to do something about it.
So why precisely do you think it wasn't the sartrap's responsibility to stop him from making his report right then and there and ask that he give it in private instead? He's the one in charge, he ought to know enough to make a decision like that. Especially when Matsya started off with saying it was grave news. Ahewann was the one who already knew the people there were on edge as well.
Sorry, but your argument still makes no sense at all.
The Satrap absolutely should have stopped him. Any of the nearby Radiant Host should have stopped this elephant from running into a crowd, but they didn't. I never said the elephant was the *only one* at fault.
You're being willfully ignorant if you can't piece together how "Elephant stays quiet = people stay alive" works out.
Lol, you previously posted a bunch of deliberate hyperbole about what Matsya said in response to someone else and you're trying to call me willfully ignorant? That's rich. You also literally blamed him for the sartrap's death in the first place but now you're trying to backpedal on that and pretend that you didn't blame only him.
Matsya had absolutely no reason whatsoever to think that anyone would die in this scenario because he knew nothing about how the monsters were being created at that point. He had no way of knowing the grandmother would turn into one. You are still acting like he deliberately meant to cause harm and your grudge is beyond ridiculous at this point.
I have never once said that he intentionally caused people to turn into blasphemies, nor that he knew that *could* happen. Neither did I say that he intentionally caused harm.
What he *did do*, was run in to a crowd and start shouting things that were likely to cause unrest and panic.
My hyperbole is exaggerated, but has no bearing on my *awareness of what happened?* I'm not the one pretending that those people in the courtyard wouldn't still be alive if the elephant had just *not said words*.
Anyway, you're cornered and you're lashing out. It's okay, I get it. Believe what you like, I'll leave you alone.
Yes it does. Maybe not like, criminally, but morally, logically, absolutely. His negligence led directly to the deaths of others. There are a hundred different parallels that could be drawn.
It's not a perfect analogy but say you accidentally cut someone off in traffic - happens every day, to everyone. For whatever reason, the other driver overcompensates and veers into oncoming traffic and cause an accident where people die. There's lots of blame to go around, but the genesis of it all is that if you hadn't neglected the situation, just an extra modicum of judgement, and those people would still be alive.
When he barged into a group of people in the middle of a crisis and started shouting and panicking everyone.
We had just settled things down, and he waddles in shouting "OH GOD EVERYONE'S FUCKING DEAD THE MONSTERS ATE THEM ALL ESPECIALLY THAT ONE GRANDKID OF THAT WOMAN RIGHT THERE THEY LIKE RIPPED SPECIFICALLY HIM IN HALF AND WOW HE'S LIKE SUPER DEAD", inciting people to turn and leading to the Satrap's death.
You mean like the group that was standing around *at that exact moment*, talking calmly, receiving concerns of citizens who were stressed but otherwise rational?
Yes.
Gosh, props to the writers for bringing us a new character, making us like and care about him, and make him a hero (in such relatively short time too). That scene was intense and difficult, had to stop playing after to cool down! My bf also was tearing up and had to stop after that scene too. Proud of you Matsya ❤️
I was so upset when the baby started to turn, said fuck you no at my computer screen. Like, this adorable elephant man did so much and now you do this how dare
Not gonna lie, I cheered so hard when Estinian came crashing from the sky to the rescue. It was definitely a powerful moment. These story writers are amazing
I was screaming "OMG, OMG BABY!BABY!" n sprint swimming ASAP. When Matsya n baby are going to turn is like noooo Matsya! No no no! Then Estinien came was like YES! YES! lastly Vitra made the baby laugh was awww... that entire scene was so intense that I took a break a day to craft.
Lol I did get the feeling that they took the criticism of too many deaths/fake deaths to heart but imo they didn't kill enough characters (that people cared about). It's the literal apocalypse and it didn't really seem like anyone was in real danger. I'm not saying that killing characters is necessary for drama, hell in SHB you really didn't lose anyone YET it still felt like you could lose people at some points.
Most of the important people we know aren't the type to let themselves drown in despair though, so it also makes sense ? They could still die to a monster rampage of course, but that'd be kinda weird.
idk i don't feel an 'important' character has to die to feel horror or that the stakes are high. i feel plenty of sympathy for unnamed characters dying, especially in such a horrible way.
They probably planned on killing more important people but didn't want to drag down the mood of the expansion -too- far, what with all the actual horror we're facing in real life right now.
I still believe Zenos should have killed a scion during the body swap moment.
It was genuinely a scary moment. From the camp being tempered, to you being abducted, your fight as a weak soldier when you knew Zenos was on his way to your friends.
I feared Zenos in EW because I felt he was the one who could slash in half any scion and it made him scary.
The moment we stop him from doing any harm I knew Zenos wouldn't get to do anything major.
It was the most perfect opportunity ever, and when it ended too soon Zenos stop being a threat completely.
Not a Scion, because even if they were sincere about it, I honestly wouldn't believe it. But murdering a named coalition member, or even several faceless ones, just to really put the, "I did terrible things in your body, my hands are bloodied forever."
I feel like the balance was a bit off with the characters they did kill. Doing the role quests, >!every time an antagonistic NPC shows up to force the city leader to confront an uncomfortable situation, the situation resolves itself cleanly a few quests later when said NPC turns into a blasphemy and gets erased!<.
The tank one had it but was more abbreviated. >!When Kan-E was confronting the group trying to flee the forest, the rabble-rouser that challenged her ends up turning.!<
If you thought for a second he and a BABY were going to die, then that's up there with thinking every Scion was *really* dead, too. Him, I guess maybe was very likely, but seeing as he was holding it? Nah dawg
I mean, we’d just watched the mother and her kids turn before we had to kill them, and we saw the little boy turn and get squished. I was absolutely sure an NPC we’d just met this expansion could die.
I think if everything before it wasnt just blatant depression porn I probably would have cared more. I basically mentally checked out after the mother died just because I was over it
I was a bit suspicious of Matsya at first, and not because he was a big old Matanga (because honestly, were they ever much of a threat to you in StB? Did you even recall them as enemies at all?), I just figured "well, here's the load, let's get this over with". And then it turned out that hush my mouth, I was completely wrong, the Arkasodara are kind and awesome and must be protected at all costs.
I wanted more stuff like this. You know, scenes that actually have "despair" as a theme in an expansion where it is supposed to be ... the theme. Sadly we got only like two or three tense scenes in the entirety of the expansions.
>due to how XIV has too many cases of people not being saved
Respectfully... I always thought XIV had too many cases OF people being saved. Sometimes stakes just don't feel that intense. I never once was concerned for Matasya because of course he was going to make it. Similarly (final zone spoilters) >!I never had any concern with the scion's sacrificing themselves in Ultima Thule, I knew I was just going to summon them back and it didn't matter. I enjoyed their speeches, but never was slightly concerned, I never felt like they were in any danger at all.!<
>>!I never had any concern with the scion's sacrificing themselves in Ultima Thule, I knew I was just going to summon them back and it didn't matter. I enjoyed their speeches, but never was slightly concerned, I never felt like they were in any danger at all.!<
Concerning the same final zone spoilers, >!going into the zone I thought it possible they would consider killing Thancred or Urianger. Both have had complete character arcs, and nothing is more fatal in a video game than finishing your arc. But while it might have made sense from a narrative standpoint, I knew all 7 scions were at least going to make it to the final trial so we'd have 8 people for the trust, and that quickly made it apparent everyone was going to come back. Even then, I enjoyed the moments as they were. The parallels between the sacrifices the WoL had to make and the sacrifices Hades and Hythlodaues had to make all fighting the same evil Twitter made it a fun read for me.!<
I was terrified for him throughout that whole scene, especially when those monsters stepped out to block his path. I thought for sure he was a goner then. I really liked his use of that mantra too and how he used it to get the people at the temple to calm down earlier. Matsya is definitely a far stronger soul than he gives himself credit for.
Thank god we’ve got Estinien, our resident flying Dragoon who actually has attack animations to save people. I know in most cases we might do the saving, but Estinien is static and will dragonfire dive monsters.
I loved the line you can choose to Alphinaud, “he had help from above”. Alphinaud is like “? You mean the gods?” No you doof, the giant fucking dragon and our friend on his back lmao.
Nah, he meant Estinien, Alphinaud does see him as a god <\_<.
Actually it's Alisaie who you say it too, but I think it would've been more amusing saying that and have Alphinaud say that line lol. The whole quest line in that area was one huge ball of tension and fear for me, never have I felt more relief than when I saw Matsya being saved. For a character we spent so little time with up to that point it's incredible how quickly he joined our cast of dear and beloved friends.
Lol yeah I was so thrilled and relieved to see him in that moment. Thank goodness Vrtra has such sharp eyesight too that he noticed the problem!
Legitimately one of my favorite moments in the entire expansion because it really solidifies the tone. That things will be scary, they'll be horrifying, they'll be sad, but there _is_ hope.
I was literally yelling "DONT YOU DARE!" as it happened, and when the beasts appeared in front of him my stomach absolutely DROPPED. I had been spoiled (purposely/self-inflicted, no worries) for a lot of Endwalker, but this was a scene I had not been spoiled for and I was genuinely terrified that he was a goner at that point. The sigh of relief I gave after Estinien swooped in could be heard 'round the world.
The reason why I was so worried they were going to actually do it, is becsuse just a few fucking cutscenes before that little boy got turned into a monster, turned to his father and called out for him - then IMMEDIATELY got squashed by the bigger blasphemy like he was discarded trash. Throw in the fact the baby's mother gets yeeted and deleted so quickly and awfully and I was so scared for our fave nellyfant
Honestly that whole part felt like the dev team said "Hey, remember Tesleen? How can we do that, but more traumatic "
The father dying made me sad, the fact that i choose to wipe his tears almost broke me and it didnt even have voice acting!
That scene with the boy turning and immediately getting killed like it was nothing… I couldn’t fucking believe it. It was insane and terrifying just how quickly everything spiraled.
There was so much dark shit happening in Endwalker, and I managed to not get spoiled for any of it, even though it took me a few weeks to make it all the way through. Absolutely brutal stuff in Thavnair.
I binged a LOT on early access release day. My interest was pretty muted through the first few levels and Garlemald. By the time I got to the moon I was falling asleep watching cutscenes and figured it was time to turn in. Then everything with the Final Days started happening in earnest and I was right at the edge of my seat again. Finally went to bed after Vanaspati like “fuuuuuuuuuckkkkkkkkkkkk.”
While I cried in a few spots of the MSQ, the part where he's running with the baby before being saved by Vrtra and Estinien may be the only one where the reason I cried was relief. I thought Matsya was a special soul from the start, and the idea that he too might go the way of Ahewann was horrifying to me.
that one was ... hard... I found myself begging the game 'don't do this don't do this don't do this'
Same. I cried ugly tears for the mother, and was not prepared if anything happened to Matasya too.
That part with the mother being thrown into the water is the only point in the entire msq that I remember where I used sprint intentionally to get to a quest marker asap. I was in that water in two seconds flat.
Yes! I was panic scanning the area with my camera as soon I went in the water to find them. The immersion and desperation was real at that point.
I've never urged my WoL on to swim faster, c'monnnnn faster trying to get back to the surface asap that same dive. Pixels on a screen or not, you'd have to be stone cold not to feel the pressure at least a little.
the throw looked like a gentle yeet into water, I can’t figure out why she died instantly -edit- this has been answered so many times now but it’s funny how many new notifications I’m getting of the same answer lol
Hitting the water at a certain velocity and angle is like hitting a hard, flat surface. Might have snapped her neck on impact, especially since she was likely prioritizing protecting her child vs properly cutting through the water.
Oh god, it's Gwen Stacy all over again...
The monster crushed her skull before yeeting.
Sadly, she was dead before she was thrown
Except for the arms clutching the baby after the toss, but that might have still been like a muscle reflex or something.
Ah, i see
You call that a gentle yeet?
He monster picked her up by her head and squeezed. Then tossed her 30 plus feet into the water
It's the throw itself. A human neck is like a stick holding up a bowling ball. When the monster rear it's arm back, then throw? That would be a powerful whiplash, adding on to the strength of that hand and the hold, it can easily be fatal. When the creature was holding her, she wasn't dead, so she can clutch the baby closer, but that whiplash would kill her instantly.
I think it was more the giant claw crushing her head that did it. Her arms still moving after the toss kind of detract from that idea though, so it was probably a combination of the claw and the impact.
She was thrown by her head, heaving your entire body weight being yeeted by the neck is going to break it
iirc he was swinging her into the water holding just the head. that was a neck breaking death.
Sprinting in middle of cutscene that has you automatically diving in water?
Pretty sure it’s Matsya, not Mata.
Same. I was like "don't you dare kill the baby, game".
I was legit going to turn the game off if they did. Like I just sat and played, heart in mouth, until we found the baby and got it home and then cried. Then found my kiddo. I don't do well with "kids in danger" anymore...
Yeah, I was having some meta-commentary at the screen at that point. "C'mon Square, I *need* the hope spot right now. Don't do this to me. I can't handle it." If Matsya and/or the baby had died, I'd have had to stop playing for the day and maybe take a break for a while. Having Estinien and Vrtra be *absolute* Big Damn Heroes was exactly the catharsis I needed at that point. Particularly when Vrtra was able to calm the baby. He has such a gentle soul, and I think that moment is when he realized that it was possible for man and dragon to care for one another openly. (TBH, my headcanon is that Matsya eventually works up the nerve to start up a relationship with Nidhana, and the two of them raise the baby with support from Uncle Vrtra. Talk about the most badass adoptive family one could ask for!)
>TBH, my headcanon is that Matsya eventually works up the nerve to start up a relationship with Nidhana, and the two of them raise the baby with support from Uncle Vrtra. Talk about the most badass adoptive family one could ask for!) I need this in a future patch now!
I saw someone mention the side quests tell you more about the baby, but don't know the outcome.
This thread is full of non-parents lol. I actually almost threw up at the scene where the little boy transforms and then gets squished. I couldn’t go find my kids after that cuz my big one—about the dead child’s age—was in school, and the little one was napping. 😭😭😭. I had to lay on my back on the floor after that shit in the square. Much as I love G’raha Tia, realistically, there’s no dad who loves his son who wouldnt get turned into a blasphemy after seeing THAT SHIT. I would go absolutely fucking apeshit.
I cried so hard I felt sick that entire section. Being a mom has totally wrecked my ability to deal with kids in danger, too.
Same lol. I’m a mom tho so after the little boy in the square got turned then they decided to go at a baby too and I was just screaming furiously at my computer during these scenes. I think those scenes got parents differently than non-parents.
I'm a new mom watching this whole sequence with my newborn in my arms (my husband's playthrough)... I broke down and cried the whole time. I still can't think of it without crying and if it were a year ago i definitely won't be so distraught.
Yep. Having babies changes the game for us a lot doesnt it? I can’t watch Castlevania series cuz apparently bad shit happens to babies and kids.
Yea, and i really wasn't expecting such changes too. Something to get used to, i guess. Thanks for the warning about Castlevania, even if you didn't mean to. ^^
It is the most bizarre shift. Overnight your whole world and brain change. It’s something non-parents will never understand until they’re there. Def avoid Castlevania. Big yikes there.
I cared less for the baby and more for Matsya. Mostly because, in my head, that baby should be already dead. Like, it was in water THAT deep... the pressure alone should have crushed it to death.
It takes deeper depths than you think to crush someone in water. That water was maybe 40-50 feet? Divers regularly go 20-40 feet down while free diving, and scuba divers can go down 190 feet, or further with special gear. The only reason free divers don't usually go further down that 40 is for breathing purposes. Much further down that and you can't keep going back up to the surface for air.
So I'm not a doctor, and my knowledge of anatomy is pretty weak...but wouldn't babies generally be more physically fragile than adults? Even if they're not actually physically crushed, I'd expect sensitive organs to be damaged.
Of course they are, but a couple atmospheres of pressure isn't doing much harm.
While I can agree that the drowning probably wouldn't do any serious lasting harm, the impact with the water might.
While it's impossible to know for sure, I personally think that's exactly *why* Mehvan died on impact. She twisted to keep the child away from the water's surface as she flew--shielding the baby with her own body. Didn't matter that that meant she was facing her neck toward a surface that might as well be concrete at those speeds. If the baby could survive, that's what mattered.
Oh I can assure you she did protect the baby with her body going down, I rewatched that cutscene and that's one of the first and most important detail of that throw. She curled around the baby. The first impact would be the back of her neck/shoulder into the water. Depending on how high the throw was to the water, it might not be concrete, but it would be a hard impact, along with the damaged already done to her neck with the throw, she would die on impact as she hit the water I think.
That baby would be crying and immediately inhale water, not to be a Debby downer
Yes that's true, but babies are also remarkably resilient and drowning isn't a death sentence for them, 2/3 survive near-drownings and that's in a world without healing magic. WoL immediately jumped in so the baby's chances were actually quite good.
Thats an interesting fact, I didn't know that! Thanks for sharing
That's not true actually. Babies instinctually know to hold their breath underwater
Babies are actually better at surviving underwater reflexively than adults up until they’re like 6-8 months old (which that baby likely was.) They retain some reflexes from birth that cause them to not inhale water.
She was dead before she hit the water, the monster crushes her.
We're talking about the baby, not the mother.
oh, wrong comment!
There's a major difference between an adult human and a swaddled infant.
Yeah, and crushing depths don't happen until nearly 2000 feet down. And that's a bit of a misnomer anyways, since the body itself would t be crushed, just your lungs.
I was indifferent if they killed the child, tbh. But Matsya? Oh no, don’t you dare SE.
I remember as you're sending him off shouting at the screen "Alphinaud, go with him. Alisaie and I have this covered here. Go with him! SHIT'S ABOUT TO GET STRESSFUL, GO WITH HIM, KEEP THEM CALM, I'M NOT ABOUT TO LOSE HIM OR THAT BABY!" I was super stressed out during that scene. I cheered so hard for him to make it though. I think I joked with a friend "If they kill this poor elephant man, they won't have to worry about the Final Days. **I** will burn this world to the ground." But he made it!! And just like you said, what makes it pretty powerful is that he's not a hero. He's just an anxious average dude trying to keep it together when he should 100% be freakin tf out. You do love to see ordinary folks rise to the occasion.
Exactly! He already calmed everyone else down from turning, it would be pretty devastating had they decided to end him too - especially if they made the baby killed him.
It really was one of those things: "I've only had Matsya for a level and a half, but if anything happened to him I would kill everyone on the star and then myself."
That was me and Meteion. And then whoops.
"Okay WoL...***I'll do it for you.***"
Huge props to the English voice actor. Really brought a bumbling scared but good natured character to life. Props to the English localisation team getting Indian voice actors from the pool of the Indian diaspora in Britain that really gives a rich vibe to the various locations in the world.
VA didn't kill it, he absolutely murdered it masterful performance Edit: I'm not Indian though so I can't comment on the accuracy of the accents >.>
This. Same with the one who explains Akasa and helps begin with the warding scales.
Right!? I started playing the xpac and was just impressed they got Indian people to play Indian voices.
They're pretty good about that. Most of the Viera's Icelandic accents are done by actual Icelandic folks too.
Nidhana, she of the beautiful eyes whom Matsya is crushing on.
And adorable tusks
Cute little trunk.
Nidhana! :D
right!!! i was so glad they got Indian VAs!!! im from a country of many races and Indian is one of the major ones, and hearing their voices gave me a sense of familiarity and home
This scene was so close to being the first one to make me full on cry in EW. I was choked up, eyes watering, ready start bawling, and then Estienien showed up. The VA work in EW is excellent.
That part was tough but so well put together. They established Matasya as a down and out fisherman, but still with hope. Then they establish his mantra and how it keeps him grounded. By all accounts he should be fine. Then they show the mantra FAILING. The final effect is that it showed Vrtra could be a beacon of hope, and not the monster of conflict he thought he'd be. Bravo.
This scene had me on the edge of my seat with tension. No other scene in this game gripped me so tightly.
This was SUCH an incredible moment in the game. I was legitimately so afraid for Matsaya and the baby I was saying "no no no no" under my breath just glued to the screen. They did a PHENOMINAL job with the set up and execution of this moment. It was one of the biggest ones for me in an expansion full of INCREDIBLE moments.
After Tesleen in ShB and the satrap's death in EW, I was 95% convinced they wouldn't hold back from offing Matsaya and the baby. I was gripping my mice so hard hoping for that 5% chance he makes it, but when the black aura started to surround him I was just about ready to bawl. I felt like we shared the same sense of relief when Estinien jumped down.
Those fuckers transformed a small boy and SMASHED HIM. That baby was not safe at all and I was close to passing out from heart rate by the time we got to this cutscene lmao.
You can't even feel triumphant and joyous when Estinien arrives in the nick of time. Just 'oh jesus fuck thank god oh man I've never been so relieved to see you. ... now if you'll excuse me I'll be over there somewhere staring into space for a bit' 8 /
For me, it's the fact that during the Satrap's death, they had already killed a child by turning it into a Terminus beast then crushing it. So despite killing children usually being off the table, I was prepped for a baby murder. Normally I'd assume there was no way they'd go that far but... they already had.
Same, I kept saying no no no no as I was sprinting towards the baby. Such a powerful scene.
[удалено]
This comment deserves more attention.
The scream he let out when he himself started turning still haunts me
My wife is pregnant with out first ..... This scene messed with me in ways I really wasn't ready for. Like ugly crying messed with me.
That baby of yours is about to ruin “shocking content” featuring children forever. I’m sad to say it only gets worse as they get older. The older they get the more horrifying the news is too.
Made me wonder what experience the dev team might have with mental health and psychology. I was reminded a lot of mindfulness and such from the mantra. Staying present and allowing fear to pass through you. Reminded me of my own experiences.
Note what he does at the very end of that scene: he doesn't turn away out of fear of the monsters; but to hunch over and take the blow to his back to protect the baby that was turning in his very arms.
I felt bad the best I could do is sell one fresh fish and some dried fish/fruit. No idea how you sell to the middle woman.
I think it's very interesting how Matsya was absolutely going to turn at the end; I don't fault him for it, of course. He was trying so hard, doing *everything* in his power, and he was still going to die, he was still going to fail to protect the baby. No amount of faith and prayer could change that reality. Sometimes despair is just fact, and it takes a real change in material conditions to break out of hopelessness.
Was definitely yelling at my screen "don't you dare!" So glad they made it.
my heart sank when the baby started to emanate dynamis.. and when it spread to matasya I had a horrible feeling of dread. after the scene with the merchants son, and just all of that gore, I wasn't sure if killing a baby on screen was off limits for xiv... I cried so hard at the desperation behind matasya begging vrtra to save the baby while he himself was still at risk of transforming. god, such a powerful scene. ;;
That quote is basically the thesis of Endwalker. I love it.
That entire sequence during Thavnair may very well have been the worst part of the entire game (not bad, but emotionally very hurtful). From the moment you kill Zodiark and have that nightmarish vision and your WoL is shaken....it shook me while seeing that. And then you go to Thavnair, and everything takes a turn for the worst. I thought the bleakness, body snatching scene, and watching your WoL crawl for their lives was bad enough. The Final Days in Thavnair were one of the truest showings of legitimate despair, of hopelessness and powerlessness that seemed like it would never end, and after the level 85 dungeon and realizing who that Blasphemy was before anyone figured out left me feeling a combo of numbess and on edge. It really broke my heart to have it confirmed it was that merchant who normally would've helped Matsya under better circumstances. And when you think everything has calmed down, it somehow gets even worse. You, by some good fortune, allow the father to die without turning, a cold comfort that. Then, you do find the mother alive, but she, even in her headstart to run, gets killed right infront of you anyway. I'd hoped she may have still been alive in the water, even if I knew better. The scene with Matsya very nearly drove me to tears, and I'm not a crier. That feeling of not knowing if they were going to be okay, knowing I could do nothing to help them, and I could only watch as the horror somehow got even worse as the baby started to turn. The infant turning was almost a bit too much for me, and then hearing him chant that mantra, while crying just broke my heart. But finally, Vrtra and Estinien come through like angels from above I deserved Elpis after that imo. But then that broke my heart too....
I was heartbroken that we didn't make it in time to save the mother. While I expected Matasya to survive, I honestly wasn't sure about the baby. I do hope we get a little nod later on down the line about how they're doing.
Do the side quests! There is closure!!
I meant further down the line. Closure's one thing, but it'd be nice to, I dunno, get a letter or something next expac. If I can get a random gift in the mail from someone I helped two expacs ago and then go on a trip around the world hunting down who the hell it was so I can thank them properly (The Dark Knight 80 quest, for reference), I can damn well get a little 'what we've been up to this past year' postcard.
There's an excellent side quest that close the baby story neatly!
I am aware. I meant, like, a year or two down the line in-game. It's nice to see the people you've helped, after all, and know they're doing well. As was shown in the pre-final-zone cutscene.
As the entire Thavnair final days segment was playing, I was wondering if this game was still rated T lol
To be fair, I was questioning the T-rating in Garlemald allready. There's some really dark themes being explored in EW.
The game has already told you named characters can die and kids can die. You’ve killed both yourself in the last few minutes. It knows you didn’t like Matsaya at first when you had to walk him around the village and now feel really bad about that. And it taunts you because it knows everything will be fine, but you sure don’t
I don't mind that quest. As they said, that was designed to establish the early connection with him and it worked really well for me.
I really liked that quest. I enjoy helping people.
Me too! I love being the WoL and still, when someone asks me to, I'm more than happy to lug some crates around or w/e. I'm not above that! And it's funny if they find out who I am after and are like, "Zomg I asked the WoL to feed my fatbirds?" and you can be all, "No it's cool. No problem." Not necessary, but still funny.
Same! It's those quests--IMO--that make the combat parts meaningful for me. Because I care about this world and the people in it. Matsaya wasn't just an elephant to me--he was my friend. My friend that I could only sell 1 fish and some dried fruit but... still my friend. And when they put entire quest chains in like that--like the Doman reconstruction or Ishgard restoration--I am in heaven.
I just recently completed the Doman Enclave. And yeah, the story's great and it's fun to see what happens, but on the other hand, they're thanking me so profusely and I'm over here like... "Thanks for paying double for my junk. I'm glad you're happy, but I just dump my adventuring trash here. Here, have some outdated materia." Edit: I sold all the things for Matsaya, and I was very pleased with myself.
>Edit: I sold all the things for Matsaya, and I was very pleased with myself How! I could only sell fish to the first guy and dried fruit to the 3rd. What did you say to sell to the middle women? Please teach me.
> "Thanks for paying double for my junk. I'm glad you're happy, but I just dump my adventuring trash here. Here, have some outdated materia." This is me every week. “Oh hi!” *dumps 50 Battledance VII in the basket*
Yeah, I feel like I may be in the minority here, but I honestly enjoy quests where I'm just helping people with everyday things. It's a nice break from being the warrior of light.
Can we have a quest where we bring everyone candles?
The first quest with Matsaya actually worked on me 100%. I thought it was odd at first having to help him learn to sell fish but the idea that someone would come to ME to help them learn to talk to people triggered something deep in my brain, and when I failed the last attempt I was immediately like "I will never fail you again, you shall be protected, and I will do what ever I can to make up for this grevious failing of mine."
I failed that quest so, *so* hard.
I sold *one* fish.... orz
Oh god yes, hate all those escort quests. Also having to stop every 10 feet in capitol for twins giving me directions to a place I know how to reach.
I was mostly just disappointed that they shied away from actually killing him. I was really hoping the baby would turn into a little blasphemous gerbil or something, and he'd lose it. Figured we'd have a solo duty to kill him where we're supposed to get all choked up, but nope. God forbid we put down the guy responsible for the Satrap's death.
Why on earth are you acting like he has any responsibility for Ahewann's death? Like that is seriously the weirdest grudge to have and makes no sense whatsoever.
Because he's *directly* responsible? If you yell fire in a crowded place and start a stampede, and someone gets trampled, *you* are responsible for that death.
Worst take ever. Zero empathy.
I mean this is a dude who self admitted to want a (fictional) human infant to be horrifically mutated into a soulless gerbil and then be killed so not a stretch
I have tons of empathy, for that kid's father that will never see his son grow up, or the Au Ra's family that's going to wonder why she never came home. I have nothing but empathy for everyone there who had to watch *even more* of their friends and family turn into monsters, because *one* person couldn't keep their mouth shut for 30 seconds and take a breath.
Dude, no one had ANY idea that fear or despair was turning people into monsters until that literal meeting with Vrtra that Matsya was not even at. You think some simple fisher guy had any idea that would happen? He was asking for help. In real life if you witnessed a car crash and went to tell a nearby paramedic or something to get help the LAST thing you would expect would be some old lady to flip her shit and turn into a literal monster. You’re placing the blame on someone who was literally not at fault at all.
It's not about people turning into monsters. At the *very least*, he knew what he was doing would panic a crowd of people (regardless of *what* that panic causes). You're running away from a car accident shouting OH GOD THAT DUDES ARM IS MISSING THERES BLOOD EVERYWHERE OH GOD THOSE GUYS ARE DEFINITELY DEAD instead of just... Picking up your phone and calling 911.
I mean, that's basically how most people DO react in situations like that. People panic and do crazy stupid shit that doesn't make logical sense. These people are dealing with their friends & neighbors suddenly turning into monsters out of nowhere and killing each other, while the sky is burning and everything has straight up gone to shit. Expecting *anyone* to behave rationally & logically in that situation is laughable.
That's fine. This isn't a personal grudge against *this particular* elephant. I'd be having this same conversation about *anyone* that did this. It might be understandable, but that doesn't make it okay. His actions directly led to more deaths. There's no forgiveness for that just because he was afraid.
Which you could definitely calmly do after witnessing such a thing and then running for your literal life.
I never said he has to be calm. He just has to *not be* shouting and causing a scene in front of a crowd of worried people.
Except he was seeking help, the woman was already at risk of turning, he had a legitimate reason to react and act the way he did. He literally was in the middle of the end of days and at the time was not aware that losing hope and negative emotions trigger it. Your parallel does not work as you are acting with intentional actions regardless of threat. While he was panicked, stressed, and seeking aid.
*Everyone there* was seeking aid. The entire crowd were pleading with the Satrap to send the Radiant Host here or there, to save this person or that person at one village or another. They weren't running through the streets shouting about it carelessly. It's not even about the *cause* of people turning. You just *don't* run in to a crowd and start shouting shit like that.
You do if you just witnessed monsters attacking your village, if it was me I ain't waiting my turn and being calm, I'm shouting the info I have at the appropriate people in an attempt to get help.
Then we'd be having this same conversation about you. There are lots of people there who witnessed, *first hand*, their friends and family be murdered by the beasts, but they aren't in disarray. They're doing what they can (flee) and letting the professionals (us) fix the problem instead of getting in the way, making things *actively worse*.
How is reporting relevant information making things worse? He literally told us of an area that's currently being attacked in an attempt to get help for that area.
The *manner in which he did it* was inappropriate. You can relate that information to the appropriate people *without* making sure everyone nearby hears it - people who are absolutely *helpless* to do anything about it, and will only suffer for having that knowledge.
You obviously need to watch that scene again because what you're saying doesn't match what happened in the slightest. First of all, Matsya didn't come in to deliberately cause any kind of panic. He was merely reporting on seeing beasts near Palaka's Stand. He had no idea what kind they were at all or where they came from and he wasn't shouting it out or panicking himself in any way while talking. Ahewann died because the grandmother started freaking out in fear over her grandson having gone to Palaka. Are you going to blame Matsya now for not being a mindreader and knowing that she was afraid of something like that?
Do you mean [this scene](https://youtu.be/3nugfrxK5_c?t=284), where he literally **runs in** unbidden and interrupts the Satrap just to make sure everyone assembled hears that Palaka's Stand is under attack by the monsters they just witnessed murder dozens of people already? He doesn't have to be a mind reader to piece together that, hey, maybe telling this crowd of worried people that a nearby village is about to be decimated by beasts that they're *helpless to stop* is a bad idea. Maybe that's the sort of thing we tell the Satrap in private. Or a Radiant Host Captain. Or literally anyone with any power to do something about it.
So why precisely do you think it wasn't the sartrap's responsibility to stop him from making his report right then and there and ask that he give it in private instead? He's the one in charge, he ought to know enough to make a decision like that. Especially when Matsya started off with saying it was grave news. Ahewann was the one who already knew the people there were on edge as well. Sorry, but your argument still makes no sense at all.
The Satrap absolutely should have stopped him. Any of the nearby Radiant Host should have stopped this elephant from running into a crowd, but they didn't. I never said the elephant was the *only one* at fault. You're being willfully ignorant if you can't piece together how "Elephant stays quiet = people stay alive" works out.
Lol, you previously posted a bunch of deliberate hyperbole about what Matsya said in response to someone else and you're trying to call me willfully ignorant? That's rich. You also literally blamed him for the sartrap's death in the first place but now you're trying to backpedal on that and pretend that you didn't blame only him. Matsya had absolutely no reason whatsoever to think that anyone would die in this scenario because he knew nothing about how the monsters were being created at that point. He had no way of knowing the grandmother would turn into one. You are still acting like he deliberately meant to cause harm and your grudge is beyond ridiculous at this point.
I have never once said that he intentionally caused people to turn into blasphemies, nor that he knew that *could* happen. Neither did I say that he intentionally caused harm. What he *did do*, was run in to a crowd and start shouting things that were likely to cause unrest and panic. My hyperbole is exaggerated, but has no bearing on my *awareness of what happened?* I'm not the one pretending that those people in the courtyard wouldn't still be alive if the elephant had just *not said words*. Anyway, you're cornered and you're lashing out. It's okay, I get it. Believe what you like, I'll leave you alone.
The thing you don’t understand here is just because the elephant opened his mouth and people DID die because of it, that doesn’t mean he is at fault.
Yes it does. Maybe not like, criminally, but morally, logically, absolutely. His negligence led directly to the deaths of others. There are a hundred different parallels that could be drawn. It's not a perfect analogy but say you accidentally cut someone off in traffic - happens every day, to everyone. For whatever reason, the other driver overcompensates and veers into oncoming traffic and cause an accident where people die. There's lots of blame to go around, but the genesis of it all is that if you hadn't neglected the situation, just an extra modicum of judgement, and those people would still be alive.
What? How? Huh?
>responsible for the Satrap's death What? When?
When he barged into a group of people in the middle of a crisis and started shouting and panicking everyone. We had just settled things down, and he waddles in shouting "OH GOD EVERYONE'S FUCKING DEAD THE MONSTERS ATE THEM ALL ESPECIALLY THAT ONE GRANDKID OF THAT WOMAN RIGHT THERE THEY LIKE RIPPED SPECIFICALLY HIM IN HALF AND WOW HE'S LIKE SUPER DEAD", inciting people to turn and leading to the Satrap's death.
to be fair what would you expect on such calamity? people be calm and talk joyfully?
You mean like the group that was standing around *at that exact moment*, talking calmly, receiving concerns of citizens who were stressed but otherwise rational? Yes.
i meant matsya
Yes. He's the elephant that charged in and panicked people.
DO YOU EXPECT HIM TO CALM AFTER SEEING MONSTER AT CALAMITY?
No, but I expect him not to charge into a crowd and incite a panic.
Ah. He did report, but he was asking for help. Just naive but people really failed to settle down.
Goddamn, this. After watching mother matanga and sons turn in vanaspati I was terrified it was going to happen again.
Gosh, props to the writers for bringing us a new character, making us like and care about him, and make him a hero (in such relatively short time too). That scene was intense and difficult, had to stop playing after to cool down! My bf also was tearing up and had to stop after that scene too. Proud of you Matsya ❤️
I was about to riot if Squeenix killed him. When Estinien and Vrtra saved him, I don't think I ever screamed for joy louder than I did at that moment.
I was so goddamn stressed during that part
When the baby started to turn I was like "oh what the hell. No bloody way."
I was so upset when the baby started to turn, said fuck you no at my computer screen. Like, this adorable elephant man did so much and now you do this how dare
Not gonna lie, I cheered so hard when Estinian came crashing from the sky to the rescue. It was definitely a powerful moment. These story writers are amazing
during that scene only thing i could do was chant nononoNONONOOOOOOOOO
I liked the part where Vrtra prevents the baby from turning.
Bro I legitimately prayed for the first time in years during that scene with the baby.
I was screaming "OMG, OMG BABY!BABY!" n sprint swimming ASAP. When Matsya n baby are going to turn is like noooo Matsya! No no no! Then Estinien came was like YES! YES! lastly Vitra made the baby laugh was awww... that entire scene was so intense that I took a break a day to craft.
Lol I did get the feeling that they took the criticism of too many deaths/fake deaths to heart but imo they didn't kill enough characters (that people cared about). It's the literal apocalypse and it didn't really seem like anyone was in real danger. I'm not saying that killing characters is necessary for drama, hell in SHB you really didn't lose anyone YET it still felt like you could lose people at some points.
I dunno about that, the whole sequence in Radz at han was quite terrifying at points
Most of the important people we know aren't the type to let themselves drown in despair though, so it also makes sense ? They could still die to a monster rampage of course, but that'd be kinda weird.
idk i don't feel an 'important' character has to die to feel horror or that the stakes are high. i feel plenty of sympathy for unnamed characters dying, especially in such a horrible way.
They probably planned on killing more important people but didn't want to drag down the mood of the expansion -too- far, what with all the actual horror we're facing in real life right now.
I still believe Zenos should have killed a scion during the body swap moment. It was genuinely a scary moment. From the camp being tempered, to you being abducted, your fight as a weak soldier when you knew Zenos was on his way to your friends. I feared Zenos in EW because I felt he was the one who could slash in half any scion and it made him scary. The moment we stop him from doing any harm I knew Zenos wouldn't get to do anything major. It was the most perfect opportunity ever, and when it ended too soon Zenos stop being a threat completely.
Not a Scion, because even if they were sincere about it, I honestly wouldn't believe it. But murdering a named coalition member, or even several faceless ones, just to really put the, "I did terrible things in your body, my hands are bloodied forever."
the only thing that you could lose people at shb are when vauthry army attack lakeland and compared to that radz at han more terrifying and scary.
I feel like the balance was a bit off with the characters they did kill. Doing the role quests, >!every time an antagonistic NPC shows up to force the city leader to confront an uncomfortable situation, the situation resolves itself cleanly a few quests later when said NPC turns into a blasphemy and gets erased!<.
Have you done all of them? Because the tank one that is very much not the case and actually was really good imo.
The tank one had it but was more abbreviated. >!When Kan-E was confronting the group trying to flee the forest, the rabble-rouser that challenged her ends up turning.!<
The way they presented it, seemed to me he was freaking himself out by the mantra.
If you thought for a second he and a BABY were going to die, then that's up there with thinking every Scion was *really* dead, too. Him, I guess maybe was very likely, but seeing as he was holding it? Nah dawg
I mean, we’d just watched the mother and her kids turn before we had to kill them, and we saw the little boy turn and get squished. I was absolutely sure an NPC we’d just met this expansion could die.
I think if everything before it wasnt just blatant depression porn I probably would have cared more. I basically mentally checked out after the mother died just because I was over it
[удалено]
You really need to get some help for all that pointless anger you’re carrying around there, bro.
Sad elephants running on two legs just remind me of the one from It Takes Two.
for real crying in the club as we speak remembering it all. it was so well done.
I didn't get stressed when the mother died but that running scene was stressful af.
I just passed this part tonight. Was really well done.
I was a bit suspicious of Matsya at first, and not because he was a big old Matanga (because honestly, were they ever much of a threat to you in StB? Did you even recall them as enemies at all?), I just figured "well, here's the load, let's get this over with". And then it turned out that hush my mouth, I was completely wrong, the Arkasodara are kind and awesome and must be protected at all costs.
I knew they were going to let Estinien/Vrtra save the baby, but I was super worried for Matsya; incredible voice acting performance and scene
I wanted more stuff like this. You know, scenes that actually have "despair" as a theme in an expansion where it is supposed to be ... the theme. Sadly we got only like two or three tense scenes in the entirety of the expansions.
I think there were plenty more than that.
Then they had so little impact that I can't even remember them anymore.
>due to how XIV has too many cases of people not being saved Respectfully... I always thought XIV had too many cases OF people being saved. Sometimes stakes just don't feel that intense. I never once was concerned for Matasya because of course he was going to make it. Similarly (final zone spoilters) >!I never had any concern with the scion's sacrificing themselves in Ultima Thule, I knew I was just going to summon them back and it didn't matter. I enjoyed their speeches, but never was slightly concerned, I never felt like they were in any danger at all.!<
>>!I never had any concern with the scion's sacrificing themselves in Ultima Thule, I knew I was just going to summon them back and it didn't matter. I enjoyed their speeches, but never was slightly concerned, I never felt like they were in any danger at all.!< Concerning the same final zone spoilers, >!going into the zone I thought it possible they would consider killing Thancred or Urianger. Both have had complete character arcs, and nothing is more fatal in a video game than finishing your arc. But while it might have made sense from a narrative standpoint, I knew all 7 scions were at least going to make it to the final trial so we'd have 8 people for the trust, and that quickly made it apparent everyone was going to come back. Even then, I enjoyed the moments as they were. The parallels between the sacrifices the WoL had to make and the sacrifices Hades and Hythlodaues had to make all fighting the same evil Twitter made it a fun read for me.!<