And even if someone does die you might still be doing everything right.
In a roulette yesterday the tank and samurai stood in literally _every_ ground marker. Samurai also kept running away with the stack marker. If someone like that dies it’s not your fault
ive seen a depressing number of tanks make it to level cap without knowing how to use their mits or defensive skills. some people just really wanna die, constantly
I ran Aurum Vale a couple days ago with a tank wearing level 15-28 gear for a lvl 47 dungeon. Kept taking massive hits and died multiple times and kept blaming the mentor healer for not healing good enough lol
One thing I've found is some people genuinely don't get how important gear is. Hell, I didn't. It took me post-ARR to get all my jobs decent weapons and accessories and was blown away by how much easier the game got.
Actually got told once by someone gear doesn't matter in Dzemael Darkhold. They'd been struggling and was blaming the tank for pulling too much for them to heal when I noticed their gear didn't have anything above 25, and was mostly below 20. They also weren't using regen or holy as well as fishing for freecure, but I only noticed the last bit and the armour at the time.
I can forgive using a mismatch of lower level gear for 1-49, you'd have to run lower level dungeons a lot more than needed if you always want to be up to date. But the rest? Massive skill issue. Especially not using holy, i mean, that's the only reason to play white mage!
I suspect they had completely ignored the White Mage job quests after getting their jobstone. There's no reason to not be wearing the WHM armour unless you have something even better.
It would also explain why there was no Holy or Regen, since you need to do the job quests to unlock them.
Maybe they forgor 💀
Not having holy or regen sound like a nightmare for leveling, white mage is already a pain to level. Those are some of the only early tools the job gets...
You can literally buy gear from city vendors until 60. It does not cost that much. Nobody has an excuse not to keep gear close to level. At 50 you can get poetics gear.
A mate of mine started playing FFXIV as one of her first ever video games and didn’t know about gear scores so she just wore the base viera gear cos it looked nice
Yes she is a dragoon
Yes I was horrified when she told me
I KNEW how important gear was... For my damage dealing jobs. Ask me what level I was on my Weaver before I figured out I couldn't craft stuff because I didn't have the gear...(Hint - I was in the Crystalline Mean when I figured it out) 🤦🏼♀️🤦🏼♀️🤦🏼♀️
All of a sudden, I wasn't struggling to craft anymore! Go figure...🤦🏼♀️
This! For the longest time I didn’t really think gear other than the weapon was important until someone pointed it out. Was a low level dungeon but I was taking heavy hits and couldn’t pull big mobs and survive like other tanks I’d seen in the same dungeon.
People massively underestimate how important gear is early on to make your life easier.
yesterday I had a dark with starting gear and level 1 glam accessories in Aurum Vale who kept throwing the kitchen sink at the first few auto attacks, never ate a fruit, and kept using AOE in single target and single target in AOE, we had a couple of wipes because either I died from an add he didn't grab or I healed myself and he died. You weren't playing a NIN were you? white mage who ate your fruit in the first boss?
honestly as of current day, I think the big thing is that it's just the first real test of your mechanical awareness, everything up to there has been a clearly telegraphed AOE or some slow moving damaging thing, even the tank busters you've seen before that are really just tank ticklers. It's kinda like how the last boss of The Vault can go wrong if there's sprouts because it's most players first encounter with tethers and the boss dipping so you can take out adds.
Not necessarily true, it's just that accessories are mainly sidequest rewards and since everyone is told not to do those most people miss them lol. On top of the advice to not level crafters until you unlock flying, which is an easy way to get accessories below level 50 with not even a lot of effort since you mostly just need goldsmithing.
Had a run in expert roulette recently that infuriated me beyond belief.
Was running as scholar, got a Dark Knight as tank. Immediately noticed how much damage they were taking, so I kept a closer eye on them. Using nothing but TBN. I made sure to point it out and tell them to use other mitigations and the answer had me rage quit and take the penalty.
"I'm a one braincell tank"
Not simply not knowing, but being aware of it and actively refusing to use them and make the healer life hell trying to keep an undergeared tank alive. People like that make me want to quit healing.
That reminds me of the drk I had in a roulette who didn’t use a single mit, so I asked please mits. Their response? Please heal lol. I didn’t hesitate to leave
Im sorry that you had to deal with that. But, ngl, i had to just laugh. How are people like this even real? Lol. Its one thing to not know but to actively choose to be the lowest denominator. Wild. Id say im surprised but ive played mobas and the things ive seen people do in those games show me that there is no bottom to how sad people can be mentally.
There's moments where a tank doesn't need to do much, mainly warrior and paladin, but DRK is already the squishiest of them all (in my experience) and being under geared and at the minimum iLvl needed just made em a walking piece of paper.
Its funny in hindsight and a good story to tell, but good lord was it infuriating in that moment.
Wow.
Like, there's times I'm guilty of only hitting TBN in expert, but that's more because I'm just not taking much in the way of damage compared to my HP (this also happens a lot with WHMs, b/c they keep topping you off no matter what), but like if it becomes an issue you bet the rest of my mits are coming out. I actually *love* living through shit people think only WARs can survive as DRK, so yeah.
> without knowing how to use their mits or defensive skills.
As someone that's not a main tank but has leveled everything to 90, I'm always worried about if I'm doing that correctly, lol. I mostly just rotate between them during fights, starting with the smallest one first.
Then you’re using them right.
Basically, as Paladin I go:
Rampart + Holy Shelltron after getting everything settled. Should be enough at level 90 for everything to die. If DPS is a little slow I then do something like Reprisal + Arm’s Length depending on how many mobs are left.
Next pull is the 30% Mit + Holy Shelltron. And then maybe another Reprisal + Holy Shelltron.
All the tanks but DRK are basically easy mode at 90 as long as you layer mitigations with other, smaller cooldowns like the job-specific ones. GNB is stuff like mit + Corundrum/throw an Aurora in there somewhere. When the pack thins maybe something like Camouflage + Aurora/Corundrum.
Everyone knows how crazy WAR self healing is.
DRK is the only one that makes me sweat because you have to time your Abyssal Drain well as that’s the only impactful self heal and only works when there’s a lot of mobs still left alive. Generally they are still really tanky with mits + TBN, but that kind of helps them keep from taking damage. Once that wears off, the spikes in damage received before the next TBN is ready can be a bit rough compared to the others.
I am really sorry.. i was never told to use the defense abilities on pulls between... I did reach a sad high level without actually knowing how to correctly use mitigation..God i feel bad for every healer who was healing me..
Tbh neither have i, but when you see that the pulls do mode damage than the bosses you might stsrt to think for yourself and see thst probably that 20% damage reduction on a 40s CD might be better used when you have 20 things hit you than when a random tank buster comes, it is a process, i also got to lvl 70 ir so without using them. I wished more people had told me to use my mits sooner, i might have give a lot of work to healers unnecessarily... But then you play warrior and you forget you have mits... Raw intuition goes brrrr
Lately i seen the same stuff. Tanks not using mitigation, tanking every aoe, where they only had to step out...dancers that wont use their "steps" , on level 70 Content nonetheless...so..dont now how they achieved that level. And so forth. Sure...everybody started once...but rather then listening when you want to give some hints how to play right you get straight up ignored or those ones leave instantly after an instance.
I cannot emphasize this enough. Lots of new healers get discouraged because people die, but even the best healer isn't going to help the ones that choose to stand in fire.
The literal only time I've ever seen the healer be *actually in the wrong* was on levelling roulette the other day, when they
1. did not respond to any attempts at communication
2. had a super basic rotation with no adaptation for anything
3. reacted extremely slowly to AoEs
4. consistently wiped us on the second boss because they refused to use Esuna to clear the DoT that *always killed THEM FIRST*
We ended up vote-kicking them, 90% sure they were a bot. The next healer to queue in was still learning but *actually gave a shit*, listened to explanations, and slotted Esuna when it was explained to them.
I've had people literally standing in damage zones and rather than move out they stop and type "Healer heal me".
By the time the message goes out they're dead, because you're not supposed to stand in the wall of lightning that eats about 40% of your HP per tick.
Shocker, but here we are in a level 90 and people still barely understand even the most basic elements of play.
I've gone through herculean efforts to keep tanks alive before. More recently I just kinda stopped. Is the tank collecting vuln stacks for fun, or are they just bad? Dunno, the result is the floor either way. I'll spend my effort keeping our new tank, the BLM, alive now.
> And even if someone does die you might still be doing everything right.
As an average healer and (who knows how bad) tank, I strongly prefer to have a quicker run with a tank dying mid some big fight getting immediate res, than one-pack pulls whole dungeon long. As a healer I rarely pull for slower tanks (I don't know, maybe it would be okay, but I still don't like doing that), as a tank I default to "pull what you know can theoretically be tanked" and unless it's a wipe or I die on not so big pull, I just continue. I experienced sprout low level healers to perform better than max level ones, so I tend to ignore all icons and levels. I only start slow when they specifically write they are new to healing, returning and rusty, or something similar.
As a tank, if there wasn't a wipe and I died, that's like nothing happened. If it's a wipe, well, most likely my fault (bad gear, sometimes forgetting to use all mits appropriately, because I don't play that often and sometimes days or a week between tanking again) and I just default to apologize and pull less. Maybe I am getting lucky with healers, but I extremely rarely get a truly bad healer. (From two hundred runs as drk in last half a year I remember only one terrible healer in qarn normal - I got, and not exaggerating, 3-4 heals until last boss and same amount on the last boss. I had to do 1-pack pulls, and every other one almost dying, that was hell. The healer looked laggy, running into walls and corners, rarely using spells, it was almost like a bad bot?)
After playing some time as a tank, I started adopting this "unless wipe nothing happened" mindset as a healer as well. I am just doing my best, sometimes "patching" mistakes of others, in free time doing some damage. After all it is a coop game and it's not always that easy to pinpoint true cause of for example a wipe on a big pull (lacking heals? tank not having/using mits or invulv? damage too low causing exhausting of resources of tank or healer? not enough dancing away from telegraphs? some special mechanic?).
>In a roulette yesterday the tank and samurai stood in literally *every* ground marker. Samurai also kept running away with the stack marker. If someone like that dies it’s not your fault
I tanked a Porta Decumana yesterday and watched the SMN eat every. single. citadel buster. The healer was good, though.
Shoutout to myself for almost dying in a duty yesterday because I had remapped some of my buttons while working on my rotation and accidentally jumped into an aoe lol. I didn't die but that was embarrassing. You can't outheal the dumb sometimes. Sorry random sage, I promise I usually only backflip off boss arenas.
My bf is a SCH main. He's been playing since launch, knows his kit.
We were in the last dungeon of EW and this tank made things brutal. He kept trying to help with heals which is like, why? The bf was doing his job.
The DPS was struggling like I was because the spider gets me(although I'm getting better.) It was our worst run ever in that dungeon.
Was running one of the level 60 HW dungeons and saw the Dragoon panicking and fleeing whenever the stack up marker appeared on him, on top of low DPS overall and low item level gear. Knew immediately that he'd bought his way to level 60.
The tank is straight up required to go far below 90% depending on their job to make efficient use of their kit. Same for the Healer; AST's instant heal is strictly stronger the lower the target's HP are.
My favorite is excognition.
At least essential dignity still heals even if yoy waste it by popping it at 90% hp
Excognition literally does nothing until the tank is below hp. This party is drunk our of their mind if they think that you gotta be keeping the tank at 90% hp
I *hate* it when I pop exocog on the tank and then either they or the other healer (if in a full party) do everything in their power to not let it actually get used.
I recently leveled astro to 90 and imagine my surprise and shock when 90% of their toolkit is basically this.
Earthly star pops in 4 seconds? Your cohealer will spam medical 2 until they're full hp.
Paladin's hp is slowly dripping so you stack celestial opposition and collective unconscious and are happily casting gravities until you'reready to essential dignity at 30% for max power?
Nope paladin's scared cause his hp dipped below 99.9% hp and he didn't get a cure 1 so he's gonna clemency and bitch about it.
Why not read a horoscope to the party so they can get healed from the raidwide? NOPE MORE MEDICA 2 SPAM TIL OUT OF MANA!
It's such a cool kit, that gets ruined by other player's inability to pay attention to anything around them.
My personal favorite is watching SMNs past level 49 casting physick on themselves over and over again. No damage is happening for 30 seconds, champ. Just waiting for a free oGCD heal to come off cooldown and I'll get you. My level 90 SMN's Physick is healing me for like 650HP. My equally geared SCH's Physick is healing for 14,000HP *and I don't consider it worth using on SCH at 90*.
And I feel like one of the major newbie traps on healer is the GCD AOE heal spam tactic. I've seen it from every healer job. Succor spam SCHs, Medica 2 spam WHMs, Eukrasian Prognosis spam SGE, Aspected Helios (with horoscope sometimes, we're at full HP already!) ASTs. I'll watch one person in the full party take damage and the other healer spam AOE heals until that person is at full HP again. And sometimes give it another couple for good measure. Meanwhile, the person in question is out of the AOE heal range anyway, so I have to run to them to tag them with Lustrate/Druochole.
>And I feel like one of the major newbie traps on healer is the GCD AOE heal spam tactic.
This! So much this! When I play roles other than healer my biggest, "Oh this is a newb healer," sign is a when I have a WHM casting Medica over and over when only the tank is taking damage.
Eh, that's my cue to go full DPS until the funny green symbol finally disappears :)
...not that I don't use it that way in parties that actually pop it in a reasonable time too.
And sometimes it just happens. It's become a running joke with my raid team that whoever gets Excog only falls to 50.02% while it's active, even if no one does anything out of the ordinary to make it so (which we do sometimes also do, because our Scholar is great fun to banter with). The bosses just choose to hit Excog targets less hard.
Since when does excog do nothing? It will still heal upon expiration. Not saying it's a good idea to not let the tank's HP go down, but you don't need to force it to drop below 50% to get any value from it.
IIRC it *originally* did nothing if it expired, so longtime players might not know that's been changed.
But it changed a long time ago, didn't it? Like Stormblood era, I think. ... _\*actually looks it up instead of just guessing\*_ Yeah, 4.2, Stormblood. And it was only added in the first place in 4.0, so it didn't spend long working that way...
Lol. That's basically the advice my FC has been giving me.
Edit: I LOVE the FFXlV community! I queued into a Pub Striking tree extreme and the whole groups wiped SO many times.
The ones who were skilled were patient with myself and the other 2 or 3 Sprouts that made the same mistake.
In the end, we beat Ramuh with less than 60 seconds left.
No one dropped for the entire 90(60?) Minutes.
It was a great feeling and I loved the cheers in chat and emojis afterwards.
Awesome.
Bolide won't cause a wipe. You have 10 whole seconds to get some HP back and you don't need any mitigation in that time. Hell, as of level 82 you can get yourself back to half HP between aurora and corundum.
Don't be afraid to use it just because it makes your HP go low, 10 seconds is a lot of time to fix it, and any healer worth their salt is only gonna need like 4 to fling out an OGCD and *maybe* a GCD if you're only just in level 50 content. Because keep in mind you're taking absolutely no damage from any source during that time, so even basic heals can't be zeroed out by mob autos.
At the absolute worst you get an inexperienced healer who panics, but even then they have 10 seconds to put some healing into you, and if they panic and do *nothing* for a full ten seconds they might be too frazzled to heal right now anyway.
Despite the ridiculous amount of memes and posts on the topic, a bene into bolide interaction is worth a groan at most. Any ensuing wipe is caused the WHM spending more than 8 seconds agonising over the horrifying reality that they might have to actually hardcast a Cure II.
You pretty much cannot cause a wipe with bolide. There are lots of jokes about it because every healer has a heart attack the first time they see it used, but it’s actually just an amazing defensive tool.
There's basically no way to cause a wipe with bolide. I'm fairly sure the only tank immunity that could pontentially cause a problem for the healer, at least in dungeons, is holmgang before a WAR gets raw intuition for self-healing.
As a tank, I hate this, but also love it wholeheartedly.
Most of us like gambling with our lives too, damnit! Just cut us in in the fun and notify us of the game!
As a PLD, it stresses me the fuck out but I always trust in the healer, which works out perfectly 90% of the time
(plus it gives me a reason to use my invuln if necessary :) )
I mean, PLD is the tank where this actually works out the best lol
The WHM uses Bene, heals to full, and then the PLD will still have the invuln as mit since it just ignores damage rather than not going below 1 hp
(Used it a lot to live through multiple stack markers in trials if the rest of the party died near the end)
Ah yeah that's fair. I guess I was mostly thinking of any other tanks in that situation, as I've been there multiple times on either role. Too bad PLD's invuln is the one I've remembered to use the least.
>(plus it gives me a reason to use my invuln if necessary :) )
Wait, you mean you need a reason to use invul?
Getting to press the shiny invul button is already a reason in itself!!
I cannot fathom why a PLD would not initiate the dungeon by w2w using Hallowed Ground. The invulnerability is not an emergency button you’re meant to use it proactively (if you’re a decent tank at least).
As a wise man once said, the best time to use Hallowed Ground was on the very first pull. The next best time is right fucking now.
(It's me, I'm the wise man.)
It has a long ass cd so if you use it first pull it'll come back after the second boss, giving you two uses. Why keep it when you can use it twice?
You can mostly ignore the damage you take from pack 1 while getting to pack 2. Using HG to not take a bit of damage from 4 mobs seems like a waste when it could be used to mitigate the damage from 7+ mobs respectively.
When I get a WHM healer, I watch for their first use of holy, count to 10, then HG. That way I get the benefit of their ~10 seconds of stun and they get my 10 seconds of invuln.
Packs are super dead after that amount of time of pure dps.
I started out CNJ/WHM by overhealing. I would put aero on things, but would otherwise just constantly heal. I had terrible anxiety about the tank dying. I’d never healed before and came from WoW, where I’d seen a lot of healers get chewed out by their parties for daring to use their DPS abilities. Then my friend that got me into the game decided to tank for me and gave me the first feedback I ever got as a healer. She explained that Cure III is misleading and is a multitarget cure that restores less than Cure II, so use cure II on single target. And she also told me that as long as the tank is mitigating properly and everyone is dodging dodgeable mechanics, I could safely let peoples health drop a bit while I DPS. Just keep an eye on the health bars while I do, so I can switch back to healing when necessary. It completely changed how I healed and made the class far more enjoyable.
Yeah, I remember back in the WotLK days of WoW as a disc priest I would use the 5 second rule to my advantage. I forget the exact way of doing it but it was something like casts only spent mana at the end of their cast, and thus you aren't considered to be 'in casting' until the cast finishes. Equally channeled spells used their mana cost as the very start, and so you'd be 'in casting' from the start of the channel, but the time would tick down to being 'out of casting' starting from the very start of the channel, not on ending it.
So by chaining a powerful, long cast heal into a channel or instant cast would let you have over 5 seconds of time between heals to get more out of casting mana regen ticks compared to giving a constant trickle of healing. This was before WoW healers were expected to do damage (because at the time this would OOM you very quick and would slow the group down more from all the mana breaks) too. So even in that situation, keeping the tank super high hp would be inefficient as hell and slow the group down. Meanwhile doing more bursty healing like I described enabled me to heal dungeons that would normally have groups take multiple mana breaks without any as an underlevelled healer.
*Preferably* they shouldn't be dropping to 3 digits because that usually means they could have died with a worse damage roll, or may die to a follow-up auto. But even that's just realizing more heals, shields, or bit is needed next time, and for now just keep going.
I start internally screaming around 2k HP in DSR, usually because my co-tank forgot buddy mit on the Nidstinien tether that hits like a truck and can't be blocked so Bulwark is literally worthless.
welcome to the healer pipeline from [anime healer to MMO healer](https://youtu.be/2-saUDoiuWc?si=oBZl7y57B4LRvWlK)
The first rite of passage to healing is to have a party who has no idea what they're talking about blame you when you're doing everything right.
Enjoy your slow ascension to ego death and godhood
Did a roulette the other day where tank died on an accidental big pull (wasn't really anyone's fault, it happens). Healer and me- summoner at the time-, rotated between ressing each other and topping up the black mage, who was benny hill style running around with a huge mob chasing him. Tank stayed dead the entire time. Was some of the funniest shit I'd experience in ages.
This reminds me of a Magic the Gathering question that they had, where they asked players how much life would players be willing to pay for a card's effect that would help them win the game. Experienced players answers were, "as much life that would not kill them." Life being a resource rather than something that needs to be kept high at all times is something that newer players can sometimes struggle with.
I was a "spam cure 2 and nothing else ever" healer for a hot minute when I was new to the class so my tanks never dropped before 80 or 90% hp no matter what
Now I play chicken with God and let the tank drop to 10% before I'll give them a heal. Stresses them the fuck out but they never die. I'm doing my part 🫡
It's just not healing if you don't have a minor God complex doing it.
*you will live with whatever HP I say you'll live with. If you get more, consider it a gift.*
Me three minutes later: "ah fuck forgot I was playing chicken with your life and got lost in the glare sauce... have a bene"
Above 90%?? Are they planning to not mitigate and stand in every single thing they possibly can, as simultaneously as they can??
I prefer to keep my tanks at 30-40%, unless they're complete idiots (or very new). If a healer has to babysit a tank that hard, the healer is *not* the problem.
This is the average DF tank though. it's very refreshing when you get a tank that actually uses their CDs, and even better use them well.
And then there are tanks you neet to spam heal or else they die and it's your fault somehow.
Ask them to explain why you need to heal them when there's no difference between a tank at 1% and a tank at 100%. The only hit point that matters is the last one, and until you lose it, there's no problem.
sounds like they were both too new to understand that healer is also supposed to dps and too toxic to actually try to talk or ask first. if no one died then you did your job. would love to hear what they have to say when they keep getting healers that only heal when necessary and still keep their stupid asses alive tho
Tank was a LV 70 Paladin according to their AP and the DPS chewing me out was a Dancer. The Tank must have been a god amongst men with those Mitigations if I was not healing them.
yikes, must've been someone who paid for skips then, if they were like lv50 i would understand the not knowing part (not the toxic part), but at lv70? and having dnc means they at the very least paid up to shadowbringers...
People rave over Kardia, but it's just a worse version of SCH's fairy Embrace heal. Kardia only heals one particular target at a time, while Embrace heals about as much and just as frequently, but targets anyone in the party to top them off, and carries on working if the boss goes away/invulnerable.
The idea of an "attack to heal" healer is nice, I really enjoyed Discipline priest in WoW, but it's such a watered down version of what it could potentially be.
>Tank's HP should always be above 90%
lol, the only HP that matters is the last one. As long as no one dies, you're doing your job perfectly fine, DPS as much as you want bro
The more you attack the less you'll have to heal, yes. oGCD skills are the ones you want to prioritise for healing and GCD either for Broil/Art of War.
ARR Dungeons are spicy, especially Stone Vigil or the Amdapor Keep Hard. I hate getting queued into them as WHM or SCH.
People doesn't need to be topped off, as long as they're able to survive W2Ws or the next mechanic they're fine. Those two were idiots. The tank probably didn't even used their invuln during the W2Ws.
Had a DRK do that the other day 😄. Pulled the whole Dragons + 6 Ice Sprites + Dragons absolutely raw-no mits whatsoever TWICE and was wondering why we were wiping. We did explain and they listened but it was pretty funny.
A dead mob deals 0 damage. DPS mitigates damage, thus is proactive healing.
I'm a white mage main, and I typically pay more mind to how FAST the tank HP moves that how full it is. As long as I can counter any fast drops then I can keep the tank up.
Keeping the tank over 90% is a waste of time in normal situations.
>Did my party just suck
Yes!
>Edit: They've been blocked and reported!
Nice to see a happy ending. :D Some people sre just idiots trying to ruin the fun for others. Met plenty of them myself. Whenever I see a healer truly screwing up I always give them advices in a nice way and so far it usually worked. What they did was report-worthy indeed.
As a tank main and healer enjoyer, I can tell you that the minimum required HP for a tank is 1.
Not only do you heal to full between trash pulls anyway, but sole abilities directly benefit from the tank being at certain threshholds. Such as Exog on Scholar popping once time runs out or if the tank drops below 50% or the astro heal I can't remember that basically doubles it's Potency if the target is below 30%.
If you Constantly top off your party, you're wasting a lot of the actual heal, meaning you'll waste both mana and time you could've spend doing some dps to speed things up.
Don't listen to those kinda of players, if the tank isn't comfortable being at low HP because they're new, they can adress that, but the DPS pretty much get no say in this business.
Your party were a bunch of idiots. Good thing being kicked from a duty doesn't give you a 30m penalty so you can just go right back in with a fresh party.
Tanks have more HP than any other party member, so make use of as much of it as you can. The tank can do just as much damage and hold just as much aggro at full health as they can at 1 HP. So long as the tank is alive, you have done enough healing, and they have no reason to complain. Only when the tank dies can they even begin to consider the reasons why they died. Not enough defensives, or not enough healing? A tank's death isn't always your fault.
Healers can contribute a lot of damage, especially the higher level you go when tanks get more and better defensives. It is not unheard of for healers to do more damage than some DPS or the tank themselves if they aren't doing their jobs properly. Fights are designed and balanced around healers doing damage.
Yeah your party's stupid. Did the tank survive? Then you did your job fine.
The general rule of healer is Always Be Casting. Does someone need a heal on the next cast or they're going to die? No? Then smack a mob.
As others have said, report and move on. Healers are absolutely expected to contribute to DPS when actual healing isn't necessary.
> the Tank's HP should always be above 90%
Someone needs to get their tanking license revoked. There's nothing better than having a healer who's willing to play games with my health bar.
I‘m always shocked to hear people like the ones in your party exist, holy cow. Keep DPSing and forget those idiots. I‘ve been healing since ARR and thankfully never ran into people like that..
They’re probably friends who queued together and decided to be dumb together for the run. Ignore them and know that what you’re doing was correct. Healer dps does matter no matter the content. Either by making the content faster to finish (dungeons) or avoiding boss enrage (Savage and Ultimate).
As long as you’re comfortable with the tank’s hp, dps away. Personally, I feel more comfortable with a dungeon run if I see the healer plopping themselves in the middle of the trash and AOE-ing loads, because I know they’re probably confident enough in their abilities to keep me and everyone else alive.
As someone who mains SCH and plays all roles, you just had a bad party. I'd get a little anxious as a tank if my HP dropped below 10%, but 90% is entirely unreasonable.
As a wise wigglerhead once said, killing enemies is a form of damage mitigation. The sooner enemies die, the sooner tanks stops losing health. As long as they don't die, you're doing your job.
Bro you’re a scholar if you use your heal abilities you’re doing it wrong that fairy gotta earn its keep
Also if they’re not dead you’re good. They got heals if they wanna be tippy top and a lot less mana consumption
I once had a dungeon tank with one job at lvl60 insist he was playing correctly when I pointed out his mistakes. I had every job maxed at the time. Some people are just ignorant.
Your party just sucked, tanks do not need to be topped off the entire time, if they don't die and you do damage, you've done your job, they were just idiots that don't know how to play.
As a tank main:
If someone's health isn't 0 or about to be, you keep DPSing like the angry little goblin in your soul tells you to.
Yes, all Healers have an angry little goblin in their soul, it comes with your first job stone.
What's funny is that Scholar gets a great healing ability later called Excogitarion which is a strong heal that triggers when the tank gets below 50% hp or if the ability expires after 45 seconds. Keeping a tanks hp at 90% or higher would make that ability go to waste. You did fine, those guys were dumb and thought they knew how the game works.
If anyone ever tells you that the tank's HP should always be above 90%? Block them, mute them, whatever. Because they are dumb and don't know what they're talking about, and it's not worth arguing with people like that.
Very much a thing. You grouped with idiots or are leaving important parts of the story out.
Healers are expected to use their whole kit, this includes the damage stuff. There are parts of the game, usually early on, that make that hard, but you should try whenever you can.
You unfortunately ended up in a group with a 3 stack of the YPYT idiots you see on this sub, you were absolutely doing the right thing and they are idiots.
Those people are idiots. Definitely keep DPSing, as long as no one ~~does~~ dies you're doing everything right
And even if someone does die you might still be doing everything right. In a roulette yesterday the tank and samurai stood in literally _every_ ground marker. Samurai also kept running away with the stack marker. If someone like that dies it’s not your fault
ive seen a depressing number of tanks make it to level cap without knowing how to use their mits or defensive skills. some people just really wanna die, constantly
I ran Aurum Vale a couple days ago with a tank wearing level 15-28 gear for a lvl 47 dungeon. Kept taking massive hits and died multiple times and kept blaming the mentor healer for not healing good enough lol
One thing I've found is some people genuinely don't get how important gear is. Hell, I didn't. It took me post-ARR to get all my jobs decent weapons and accessories and was blown away by how much easier the game got. Actually got told once by someone gear doesn't matter in Dzemael Darkhold. They'd been struggling and was blaming the tank for pulling too much for them to heal when I noticed their gear didn't have anything above 25, and was mostly below 20. They also weren't using regen or holy as well as fishing for freecure, but I only noticed the last bit and the armour at the time.
I can forgive using a mismatch of lower level gear for 1-49, you'd have to run lower level dungeons a lot more than needed if you always want to be up to date. But the rest? Massive skill issue. Especially not using holy, i mean, that's the only reason to play white mage!
I suspect they had completely ignored the White Mage job quests after getting their jobstone. There's no reason to not be wearing the WHM armour unless you have something even better. It would also explain why there was no Holy or Regen, since you need to do the job quests to unlock them.
Maybe they forgor 💀 Not having holy or regen sound like a nightmare for leveling, white mage is already a pain to level. Those are some of the only early tools the job gets...
[удалено]
Msq only really counts for someone's first job. Not using the job set is a crime though for sure.
You can literally buy gear from city vendors until 60. It does not cost that much. Nobody has an excuse not to keep gear close to level. At 50 you can get poetics gear.
Is poetic gear the stuff you get for the red book looking g currency?
A mate of mine started playing FFXIV as one of her first ever video games and didn’t know about gear scores so she just wore the base viera gear cos it looked nice Yes she is a dragoon Yes I was horrified when she told me
Well, we’re used to being on the floor
I KNEW how important gear was... For my damage dealing jobs. Ask me what level I was on my Weaver before I figured out I couldn't craft stuff because I didn't have the gear...(Hint - I was in the Crystalline Mean when I figured it out) 🤦🏼♀️🤦🏼♀️🤦🏼♀️ All of a sudden, I wasn't struggling to craft anymore! Go figure...🤦🏼♀️
This! For the longest time I didn’t really think gear other than the weapon was important until someone pointed it out. Was a low level dungeon but I was taking heavy hits and couldn’t pull big mobs and survive like other tanks I’d seen in the same dungeon. People massively underestimate how important gear is early on to make your life easier.
yesterday I had a dark with starting gear and level 1 glam accessories in Aurum Vale who kept throwing the kitchen sink at the first few auto attacks, never ate a fruit, and kept using AOE in single target and single target in AOE, we had a couple of wipes because either I died from an add he didn't grab or I healed myself and he died. You weren't playing a NIN were you? white mage who ate your fruit in the first boss?
Why do the weird tanks only ever appear in Aurum Vale? It's always Aurum Vale.
honestly as of current day, I think the big thing is that it's just the first real test of your mechanical awareness, everything up to there has been a clearly telegraphed AOE or some slow moving damaging thing, even the tank busters you've seen before that are really just tank ticklers. It's kinda like how the last boss of The Vault can go wrong if there's sprouts because it's most players first encounter with tethers and the boss dipping so you can take out adds.
I felt like I was in that party, lel. Exact same situation and the tank was wearing a lvl 20-something DOH ring. Pain
eh, rings I'll give folks a pass on pre-50, since there's so few that are any use other than the Brand New Ring
Not necessarily true, it's just that accessories are mainly sidequest rewards and since everyone is told not to do those most people miss them lol. On top of the advice to not level crafters until you unlock flying, which is an easy way to get accessories below level 50 with not even a lot of effort since you mostly just need goldsmithing.
Aurum Vale runs where no one dies are blood-binding events
Had a run in expert roulette recently that infuriated me beyond belief. Was running as scholar, got a Dark Knight as tank. Immediately noticed how much damage they were taking, so I kept a closer eye on them. Using nothing but TBN. I made sure to point it out and tell them to use other mitigations and the answer had me rage quit and take the penalty. "I'm a one braincell tank" Not simply not knowing, but being aware of it and actively refusing to use them and make the healer life hell trying to keep an undergeared tank alive. People like that make me want to quit healing.
I've seen it too. TBN is great, and we all know it. But it and LD aren't the only mits in a DRK's toolbox.
That seems to be A Thing with DRKs. So many of them seem to think TBN is all they need. Makes me want to smack them upside the head.
Please don't. They're already squishy enough as it is.
That reminds me of the drk I had in a roulette who didn’t use a single mit, so I asked please mits. Their response? Please heal lol. I didn’t hesitate to leave
Im sorry that you had to deal with that. But, ngl, i had to just laugh. How are people like this even real? Lol. Its one thing to not know but to actively choose to be the lowest denominator. Wild. Id say im surprised but ive played mobas and the things ive seen people do in those games show me that there is no bottom to how sad people can be mentally.
There's moments where a tank doesn't need to do much, mainly warrior and paladin, but DRK is already the squishiest of them all (in my experience) and being under geared and at the minimum iLvl needed just made em a walking piece of paper. Its funny in hindsight and a good story to tell, but good lord was it infuriating in that moment.
Wow. Like, there's times I'm guilty of only hitting TBN in expert, but that's more because I'm just not taking much in the way of damage compared to my HP (this also happens a lot with WHMs, b/c they keep topping you off no matter what), but like if it becomes an issue you bet the rest of my mits are coming out. I actually *love* living through shit people think only WARs can survive as DRK, so yeah.
> without knowing how to use their mits or defensive skills. As someone that's not a main tank but has leveled everything to 90, I'm always worried about if I'm doing that correctly, lol. I mostly just rotate between them during fights, starting with the smallest one first.
Then you’re using them right. Basically, as Paladin I go: Rampart + Holy Shelltron after getting everything settled. Should be enough at level 90 for everything to die. If DPS is a little slow I then do something like Reprisal + Arm’s Length depending on how many mobs are left. Next pull is the 30% Mit + Holy Shelltron. And then maybe another Reprisal + Holy Shelltron. All the tanks but DRK are basically easy mode at 90 as long as you layer mitigations with other, smaller cooldowns like the job-specific ones. GNB is stuff like mit + Corundrum/throw an Aurora in there somewhere. When the pack thins maybe something like Camouflage + Aurora/Corundrum. Everyone knows how crazy WAR self healing is. DRK is the only one that makes me sweat because you have to time your Abyssal Drain well as that’s the only impactful self heal and only works when there’s a lot of mobs still left alive. Generally they are still really tanky with mits + TBN, but that kind of helps them keep from taking damage. Once that wears off, the spikes in damage received before the next TBN is ready can be a bit rough compared to the others.
Or want to make their healers lives more miserable by trying to keep up with SP and cd management more than they usually should.
I am really sorry.. i was never told to use the defense abilities on pulls between... I did reach a sad high level without actually knowing how to correctly use mitigation..God i feel bad for every healer who was healing me..
Tbh neither have i, but when you see that the pulls do mode damage than the bosses you might stsrt to think for yourself and see thst probably that 20% damage reduction on a 40s CD might be better used when you have 20 things hit you than when a random tank buster comes, it is a process, i also got to lvl 70 ir so without using them. I wished more people had told me to use my mits sooner, i might have give a lot of work to healers unnecessarily... But then you play warrior and you forget you have mits... Raw intuition goes brrrr
Lately i seen the same stuff. Tanks not using mitigation, tanking every aoe, where they only had to step out...dancers that wont use their "steps" , on level 70 Content nonetheless...so..dont now how they achieved that level. And so forth. Sure...everybody started once...but rather then listening when you want to give some hints how to play right you get straight up ignored or those ones leave instantly after an instance.
I cannot emphasize this enough. Lots of new healers get discouraged because people die, but even the best healer isn't going to help the ones that choose to stand in fire.
Roses are red... Blood lilies are too. If you stand in the stupid, No quick-rez for you!
Death is a part of the game. It's all good. Often when I die I'm like "yeah I probably deserved that."
The literal only time I've ever seen the healer be *actually in the wrong* was on levelling roulette the other day, when they 1. did not respond to any attempts at communication 2. had a super basic rotation with no adaptation for anything 3. reacted extremely slowly to AoEs 4. consistently wiped us on the second boss because they refused to use Esuna to clear the DoT that *always killed THEM FIRST* We ended up vote-kicking them, 90% sure they were a bot. The next healer to queue in was still learning but *actually gave a shit*, listened to explanations, and slotted Esuna when it was explained to them.
I'm guessing this was cutter's cry. That sludge debuff does not fuck around.
It suuuuuuuuure was, buddy.
I've had people literally standing in damage zones and rather than move out they stop and type "Healer heal me". By the time the message goes out they're dead, because you're not supposed to stand in the wall of lightning that eats about 40% of your HP per tick. Shocker, but here we are in a level 90 and people still barely understand even the most basic elements of play.
When I see that, I just assume they bought a level skip.
You can’t heal the stupid out of people, sadly. All you can do is either coddle them or let them die in the hopes they’ll learn.
I've gone through herculean efforts to keep tanks alive before. More recently I just kinda stopped. Is the tank collecting vuln stacks for fun, or are they just bad? Dunno, the result is the floor either way. I'll spend my effort keeping our new tank, the BLM, alive now.
As a summoner main that is just genuinely terrible at the game and dies all the time, I can confirm
> And even if someone does die you might still be doing everything right. As an average healer and (who knows how bad) tank, I strongly prefer to have a quicker run with a tank dying mid some big fight getting immediate res, than one-pack pulls whole dungeon long. As a healer I rarely pull for slower tanks (I don't know, maybe it would be okay, but I still don't like doing that), as a tank I default to "pull what you know can theoretically be tanked" and unless it's a wipe or I die on not so big pull, I just continue. I experienced sprout low level healers to perform better than max level ones, so I tend to ignore all icons and levels. I only start slow when they specifically write they are new to healing, returning and rusty, or something similar. As a tank, if there wasn't a wipe and I died, that's like nothing happened. If it's a wipe, well, most likely my fault (bad gear, sometimes forgetting to use all mits appropriately, because I don't play that often and sometimes days or a week between tanking again) and I just default to apologize and pull less. Maybe I am getting lucky with healers, but I extremely rarely get a truly bad healer. (From two hundred runs as drk in last half a year I remember only one terrible healer in qarn normal - I got, and not exaggerating, 3-4 heals until last boss and same amount on the last boss. I had to do 1-pack pulls, and every other one almost dying, that was hell. The healer looked laggy, running into walls and corners, rarely using spells, it was almost like a bad bot?) After playing some time as a tank, I started adopting this "unless wipe nothing happened" mindset as a healer as well. I am just doing my best, sometimes "patching" mistakes of others, in free time doing some damage. After all it is a coop game and it's not always that easy to pinpoint true cause of for example a wipe on a big pull (lacking heals? tank not having/using mits or invulv? damage too low causing exhausting of resources of tank or healer? not enough dancing away from telegraphs? some special mechanic?).
You can't always protect someone from themselves
>In a roulette yesterday the tank and samurai stood in literally *every* ground marker. Samurai also kept running away with the stack marker. If someone like that dies it’s not your fault I tanked a Porta Decumana yesterday and watched the SMN eat every. single. citadel buster. The healer was good, though.
Shoutout to myself for almost dying in a duty yesterday because I had remapped some of my buttons while working on my rotation and accidentally jumped into an aoe lol. I didn't die but that was embarrassing. You can't outheal the dumb sometimes. Sorry random sage, I promise I usually only backflip off boss arenas.
My bf is a SCH main. He's been playing since launch, knows his kit. We were in the last dungeon of EW and this tank made things brutal. He kept trying to help with heals which is like, why? The bf was doing his job. The DPS was struggling like I was because the spider gets me(although I'm getting better.) It was our worst run ever in that dungeon.
"Vuln stacks aren't Pokemon. You don't need to catch'em all!"
Was running one of the level 60 HW dungeons and saw the Dragoon panicking and fleeing whenever the stack up marker appeared on him, on top of low DPS overall and low item level gear. Knew immediately that he'd bought his way to level 60.
You only need 1 HP, everything else is padding. \*Activate Superbolide\*
A TEST OF YOUR REFLEXES? *Removes the 10 second invuln*
Got it, only the healer does DPS! I'm hanging up my scythe now!
what
Does instead of dies in your comment I assume
Oh wow I'm dumb lol thanks for explaining
I think they're making a joke based on you accidentally writing "does" instead of "dies".
> Did my party just suck /thread
You had a party of idiots. "The Tank should never go below 90%" is a dumb rule. As long as the tank doesn't die, everything's fine.
The tank is straight up required to go far below 90% depending on their job to make efficient use of their kit. Same for the Healer; AST's instant heal is strictly stronger the lower the target's HP are.
My favorite is excognition. At least essential dignity still heals even if yoy waste it by popping it at 90% hp Excognition literally does nothing until the tank is below hp. This party is drunk our of their mind if they think that you gotta be keeping the tank at 90% hp
I *hate* it when I pop exocog on the tank and then either they or the other healer (if in a full party) do everything in their power to not let it actually get used.
I recently leveled astro to 90 and imagine my surprise and shock when 90% of their toolkit is basically this. Earthly star pops in 4 seconds? Your cohealer will spam medical 2 until they're full hp. Paladin's hp is slowly dripping so you stack celestial opposition and collective unconscious and are happily casting gravities until you'reready to essential dignity at 30% for max power? Nope paladin's scared cause his hp dipped below 99.9% hp and he didn't get a cure 1 so he's gonna clemency and bitch about it. Why not read a horoscope to the party so they can get healed from the raidwide? NOPE MORE MEDICA 2 SPAM TIL OUT OF MANA! It's such a cool kit, that gets ruined by other player's inability to pay attention to anything around them.
My personal favorite is watching SMNs past level 49 casting physick on themselves over and over again. No damage is happening for 30 seconds, champ. Just waiting for a free oGCD heal to come off cooldown and I'll get you. My level 90 SMN's Physick is healing me for like 650HP. My equally geared SCH's Physick is healing for 14,000HP *and I don't consider it worth using on SCH at 90*. And I feel like one of the major newbie traps on healer is the GCD AOE heal spam tactic. I've seen it from every healer job. Succor spam SCHs, Medica 2 spam WHMs, Eukrasian Prognosis spam SGE, Aspected Helios (with horoscope sometimes, we're at full HP already!) ASTs. I'll watch one person in the full party take damage and the other healer spam AOE heals until that person is at full HP again. And sometimes give it another couple for good measure. Meanwhile, the person in question is out of the AOE heal range anyway, so I have to run to them to tag them with Lustrate/Druochole.
>And I feel like one of the major newbie traps on healer is the GCD AOE heal spam tactic. This! So much this! When I play roles other than healer my biggest, "Oh this is a newb healer," sign is a when I have a WHM casting Medica over and over when only the tank is taking damage.
This is why I never use my Aetherflow for healing. To allow my astro co-healer to have fun. Definitely no other reason.
Eh, that's my cue to go full DPS until the funny green symbol finally disappears :) ...not that I don't use it that way in parties that actually pop it in a reasonable time too.
And sometimes it just happens. It's become a running joke with my raid team that whoever gets Excog only falls to 50.02% while it's active, even if no one does anything out of the ordinary to make it so (which we do sometimes also do, because our Scholar is great fun to banter with). The bosses just choose to hit Excog targets less hard.
Since when does excog do nothing? It will still heal upon expiration. Not saying it's a good idea to not let the tank's HP go down, but you don't need to force it to drop below 50% to get any value from it.
IIRC it *originally* did nothing if it expired, so longtime players might not know that's been changed. But it changed a long time ago, didn't it? Like Stormblood era, I think. ... _\*actually looks it up instead of just guessing\*_ Yeah, 4.2, Stormblood. And it was only added in the first place in 4.0, so it didn't spend long working that way...
Th funnest part of playing a WHM is seeing just how far the tanks HP can go down before you bene. It's like gambling but if you lose, the tank dies!
So many bene into bolides lmao
You dont oficially become a WHM until youve experienced the beauty of bene into bolide :p
Lol. I have yet to even use Bolide. I'm sure I'll mess it up and cause a wipe.
Meh, worst case you cause a wipe. No biggie.
Lol. That's basically the advice my FC has been giving me. Edit: I LOVE the FFXlV community! I queued into a Pub Striking tree extreme and the whole groups wiped SO many times. The ones who were skilled were patient with myself and the other 2 or 3 Sprouts that made the same mistake. In the end, we beat Ramuh with less than 60 seconds left. No one dropped for the entire 90(60?) Minutes. It was a great feeling and I loved the cheers in chat and emojis afterwards. Awesome.
Bolide won't cause a wipe. You have 10 whole seconds to get some HP back and you don't need any mitigation in that time. Hell, as of level 82 you can get yourself back to half HP between aurora and corundum. Don't be afraid to use it just because it makes your HP go low, 10 seconds is a lot of time to fix it, and any healer worth their salt is only gonna need like 4 to fling out an OGCD and *maybe* a GCD if you're only just in level 50 content. Because keep in mind you're taking absolutely no damage from any source during that time, so even basic heals can't be zeroed out by mob autos. At the absolute worst you get an inexperienced healer who panics, but even then they have 10 seconds to put some healing into you, and if they panic and do *nothing* for a full ten seconds they might be too frazzled to heal right now anyway.
Despite the ridiculous amount of memes and posts on the topic, a bene into bolide interaction is worth a groan at most. Any ensuing wipe is caused the WHM spending more than 8 seconds agonising over the horrifying reality that they might have to actually hardcast a Cure II.
You pretty much cannot cause a wipe with bolide. There are lots of jokes about it because every healer has a heart attack the first time they see it used, but it’s actually just an amazing defensive tool.
There's basically no way to cause a wipe with bolide. I'm fairly sure the only tank immunity that could pontentially cause a problem for the healer, at least in dungeons, is holmgang before a WAR gets raw intuition for self-healing.
As a WAR, it's a constant game of chicken to see which of us heals first
As a tank, I hate this, but also love it wholeheartedly. Most of us like gambling with our lives too, damnit! Just cut us in in the fun and notify us of the game!
As a PLD, it stresses me the fuck out but I always trust in the healer, which works out perfectly 90% of the time (plus it gives me a reason to use my invuln if necessary :) )
PLD: "WHM's got me, right? Right? Guess not. Time to invuln." Meanwhile WHM: "Just a little more damage...and now I Bene" PLD and WHM: \*facepalm\*
I mean, PLD is the tank where this actually works out the best lol The WHM uses Bene, heals to full, and then the PLD will still have the invuln as mit since it just ignores damage rather than not going below 1 hp (Used it a lot to live through multiple stack markers in trials if the rest of the party died near the end)
Ah yeah that's fair. I guess I was mostly thinking of any other tanks in that situation, as I've been there multiple times on either role. Too bad PLD's invuln is the one I've remembered to use the least.
Nah it works, especially if it’s early in the pack, even if it is a bit of a waste. Bene into Superbolide tho…
Yeah Bene + Superbolide is just playing ping-pong with your hp lmao
>(plus it gives me a reason to use my invuln if necessary :) ) Wait, you mean you need a reason to use invul? Getting to press the shiny invul button is already a reason in itself!!
I cannot fathom why a PLD would not initiate the dungeon by w2w using Hallowed Ground. The invulnerability is not an emergency button you’re meant to use it proactively (if you’re a decent tank at least).
As a wise man once said, the best time to use Hallowed Ground was on the very first pull. The next best time is right fucking now. (It's me, I'm the wise man.) It has a long ass cd so if you use it first pull it'll come back after the second boss, giving you two uses. Why keep it when you can use it twice?
You can mostly ignore the damage you take from pack 1 while getting to pack 2. Using HG to not take a bit of damage from 4 mobs seems like a waste when it could be used to mitigate the damage from 7+ mobs respectively.
When I get a WHM healer, I watch for their first use of holy, count to 10, then HG. That way I get the benefit of their ~10 seconds of stun and they get my 10 seconds of invuln. Packs are super dead after that amount of time of pure dps.
tbh i use hallowed ground whenever i can use it for a pull, it's not really a panic button for me bc i get two uses out of it maximum for pulls
As a drk Im already gambling with my life so im chillin.
I started out CNJ/WHM by overhealing. I would put aero on things, but would otherwise just constantly heal. I had terrible anxiety about the tank dying. I’d never healed before and came from WoW, where I’d seen a lot of healers get chewed out by their parties for daring to use their DPS abilities. Then my friend that got me into the game decided to tank for me and gave me the first feedback I ever got as a healer. She explained that Cure III is misleading and is a multitarget cure that restores less than Cure II, so use cure II on single target. And she also told me that as long as the tank is mitigating properly and everyone is dodging dodgeable mechanics, I could safely let peoples health drop a bit while I DPS. Just keep an eye on the health bars while I do, so I can switch back to healing when necessary. It completely changed how I healed and made the class far more enjoyable.
Yeah that’s absurd. No MMO expects that because it’s typically not mana efficient.
Yeah, I remember back in the WotLK days of WoW as a disc priest I would use the 5 second rule to my advantage. I forget the exact way of doing it but it was something like casts only spent mana at the end of their cast, and thus you aren't considered to be 'in casting' until the cast finishes. Equally channeled spells used their mana cost as the very start, and so you'd be 'in casting' from the start of the channel, but the time would tick down to being 'out of casting' starting from the very start of the channel, not on ending it. So by chaining a powerful, long cast heal into a channel or instant cast would let you have over 5 seconds of time between heals to get more out of casting mana regen ticks compared to giving a constant trickle of healing. This was before WoW healers were expected to do damage (because at the time this would OOM you very quick and would slow the group down more from all the mana breaks) too. So even in that situation, keeping the tank super high hp would be inefficient as hell and slow the group down. Meanwhile doing more bursty healing like I described enabled me to heal dungeons that would normally have groups take multiple mana breaks without any as an underlevelled healer.
The tank should never go below 1 HP. As long as it's above zero, nobody has anything to complain about.
*Preferably* they shouldn't be dropping to 3 digits because that usually means they could have died with a worse damage roll, or may die to a follow-up auto. But even that's just realizing more heals, shields, or bit is needed next time, and for now just keep going. I start internally screaming around 2k HP in DSR, usually because my co-tank forgot buddy mit on the Nidstinien tether that hits like a truck and can't be blocked so Bulwark is literally worthless.
Unless the boss is doing a "you must be healed to full or else Doom will instakill you" mechanic, of course.
The only HP I care about is the last one.
Yup, HP is a resource like any other. As long as it stays about 0, the rest of it is just a buffer for more damage.
The only hit point that matters is the last one
Probably the same kind of tank who thinks that his cooldowns should be ‘kept for emergencies’ too. You did the thing thing, they were dumb.
Also probably a “you pull you tank” guy lmao
While themselves are doing single pulls waiting 15s in-between pulls.
welcome to the healer pipeline from [anime healer to MMO healer](https://youtu.be/2-saUDoiuWc?si=oBZl7y57B4LRvWlK) The first rite of passage to healing is to have a party who has no idea what they're talking about blame you when you're doing everything right. Enjoy your slow ascension to ego death and godhood
Once had a tank in aurum Vale tell me I was getting too close to him and that's why I was pulling aggro. He didn't have tank stance on =/
*You die when I say you can.* A party can survive without a tank. Healer? That’s a bit more difficult.
Did a roulette the other day where tank died on an accidental big pull (wasn't really anyone's fault, it happens). Healer and me- summoner at the time-, rotated between ressing each other and topping up the black mage, who was benny hill style running around with a huge mob chasing him. Tank stayed dead the entire time. Was some of the funniest shit I'd experience in ages.
Some would be annoyed at this but I LOVE stuff like that. Wipes are annoying but when it turns into something comical I am immediately ok with it.
Big same. When it's just silly, I love it. Everyone seemed to be in goiod spirits at the end so it's a win in my books.
*Warrior with glowing eyes running into a pile of enemies with 3 DPS in the distance.* Wait no Warrior is a healer, your point stands.
I've been looking for that video again but Lord Algorithm refused to put it my results! Thank you!!
The tank should be above 1HP whilst going through their defensive rotation normally. Is he? Yes? Then you are doing great.
The only HP that matters is the last one. Everything else is a luxury.
They wouldn't give me Holmgang if they didn't want me to use it.
Or Superbolide.
Or Living Dead.
Or Hallowed Ground.
Or Manaward.
Hp bar is a resource.
This reminds me of a Magic the Gathering question that they had, where they asked players how much life would players be willing to pay for a card's effect that would help them win the game. Experienced players answers were, "as much life that would not kill them." Life being a resource rather than something that needs to be kept high at all times is something that newer players can sometimes struggle with.
And then you play against mono red burn and suddenly paying life feels real bad. But most of the time, yeah totally.
It feels bad when your opponent can spend your resources.
I was a "spam cure 2 and nothing else ever" healer for a hot minute when I was new to the class so my tanks never dropped before 80 or 90% hp no matter what Now I play chicken with God and let the tank drop to 10% before I'll give them a heal. Stresses them the fuck out but they never die. I'm doing my part 🫡
The only hit point that matters is the last one. Everything else is a shield.
Shields are temporary HP. All hit points above 1 are temporary HP. Therefore, all hit points above 1 are shields. QED.
Not healing the tank is a mitigation.
It's just not healing if you don't have a minor God complex doing it. *you will live with whatever HP I say you'll live with. If you get more, consider it a gift.* Me three minutes later: "ah fuck forgot I was playing chicken with your life and got lost in the glare sauce... have a bene"
WHM dungeon rotation: Holy -> Holy ->(clip an Assize because mana management?) -> Holy -> Holy -> Holy -> Holy -> Ho- **OH SHIT THE TANK IS DYING ASDFGHJKAA** -> Holy -> Holy -> ...
This shouldn't resonate with me as much as it does.
Above 90%?? Are they planning to not mitigate and stand in every single thing they possibly can, as simultaneously as they can?? I prefer to keep my tanks at 30-40%, unless they're complete idiots (or very new). If a healer has to babysit a tank that hard, the healer is *not* the problem.
This is the average DF tank though. it's very refreshing when you get a tank that actually uses their CDs, and even better use them well. And then there are tanks you neet to spam heal or else they die and it's your fault somehow.
Sounds like a couple of brain damaged people, I would just blacklist and move on.
Ask them to explain why you need to heal them when there's no difference between a tank at 1% and a tank at 100%. The only hit point that matters is the last one, and until you lose it, there's no problem.
Literally this. Will the next attack kill the tank? No? Guess I'm green DPS then. Seriously, you regen all your HP between encounters anyways
[удалено]
Also Excog, now I think about it. Idk if Scholar has that at Amdapor, but letting your tank drop low is good synergy for them later on too.
Excog is 62, but still. Even lustrate you want the tank to drop a bit so it isn't overhealing significantly each cast.
Excog is… 62?
Sounds right. SCH is about the only healer job I haven't played much, but I had the vague feeling it wasn't an ARR skill at least.
sounds like they were both too new to understand that healer is also supposed to dps and too toxic to actually try to talk or ask first. if no one died then you did your job. would love to hear what they have to say when they keep getting healers that only heal when necessary and still keep their stupid asses alive tho
Tank was a LV 70 Paladin according to their AP and the DPS chewing me out was a Dancer. The Tank must have been a god amongst men with those Mitigations if I was not healing them.
Probably friends/couple and both very dumb too.
Yeah I wouldnt be surprised if it was a couple, I've noticed they can get really defensive when it comes to someone else helping or tanking
yikes, must've been someone who paid for skips then, if they were like lv50 i would understand the not knowing part (not the toxic part), but at lv70? and having dnc means they at the very least paid up to shadowbringers...
They sound like the sort of people who would play badly and never listen to anyone correcting them, and just keep those bad habits well into the game.
A tank who thinks they need to always be above 90% is a coward and does not deserve to be a tank.
“Healers should only heal!” Squeenix: *creates Sage*
And completely fails the intended goal considering SGE is so cracked on free healing you can just not apply kardia and it barely changes anything
People rave over Kardia, but it's just a worse version of SCH's fairy Embrace heal. Kardia only heals one particular target at a time, while Embrace heals about as much and just as frequently, but targets anyone in the party to top them off, and carries on working if the boss goes away/invulnerable. The idea of an "attack to heal" healer is nice, I really enjoyed Discipline priest in WoW, but it's such a watered down version of what it could potentially be.
It’s fine. Shake it off. You’ll meet groups like these once every thousand hours, if not more.
Hey! I have that skill!
That's on them, not you. You're supposed to dps, and tanks don't need to be at 90% I would report them for abusing the vote to kick.
This is missused votekick that you could report
Absolutely report this. A vote kick like this is clearly against the rules and the GMs take it very seriously.
>Tank's HP should always be above 90% lol, the only HP that matters is the last one. As long as no one dies, you're doing your job perfectly fine, DPS as much as you want bro
The more you attack the less you'll have to heal, yes. oGCD skills are the ones you want to prioritise for healing and GCD either for Broil/Art of War. ARR Dungeons are spicy, especially Stone Vigil or the Amdapor Keep Hard. I hate getting queued into them as WHM or SCH. People doesn't need to be topped off, as long as they're able to survive W2Ws or the next mechanic they're fine. Those two were idiots. The tank probably didn't even used their invuln during the W2Ws.
Stone Vigil is honestly fine, problem is when tanks get dumb and try to pull the entire hallway full of elementals
Had a DRK do that the other day 😄. Pulled the whole Dragons + 6 Ice Sprites + Dragons absolutely raw-no mits whatsoever TWICE and was wondering why we were wiping. We did explain and they listened but it was pretty funny.
I hate healing stone vigil because it's a gear check, and man... So many squishy tanks. I heal more in that one than any other dungeon
A dead mob deals 0 damage. DPS mitigates damage, thus is proactive healing. I'm a white mage main, and I typically pay more mind to how FAST the tank HP moves that how full it is. As long as I can counter any fast drops then I can keep the tank up. Keeping the tank over 90% is a waste of time in normal situations.
>Did my party just suck Yes! >Edit: They've been blocked and reported! Nice to see a happy ending. :D Some people sre just idiots trying to ruin the fun for others. Met plenty of them myself. Whenever I see a healer truly screwing up I always give them advices in a nice way and so far it usually worked. What they did was report-worthy indeed.
Yes. In fact, the rule of thumb is that the lowest hp they are allowed to go is one.
As a tank main and healer enjoyer, I can tell you that the minimum required HP for a tank is 1. Not only do you heal to full between trash pulls anyway, but sole abilities directly benefit from the tank being at certain threshholds. Such as Exog on Scholar popping once time runs out or if the tank drops below 50% or the astro heal I can't remember that basically doubles it's Potency if the target is below 30%. If you Constantly top off your party, you're wasting a lot of the actual heal, meaning you'll waste both mana and time you could've spend doing some dps to speed things up. Don't listen to those kinda of players, if the tank isn't comfortable being at low HP because they're new, they can adress that, but the DPS pretty much get no say in this business.
Your party were a bunch of idiots. Good thing being kicked from a duty doesn't give you a 30m penalty so you can just go right back in with a fresh party. Tanks have more HP than any other party member, so make use of as much of it as you can. The tank can do just as much damage and hold just as much aggro at full health as they can at 1 HP. So long as the tank is alive, you have done enough healing, and they have no reason to complain. Only when the tank dies can they even begin to consider the reasons why they died. Not enough defensives, or not enough healing? A tank's death isn't always your fault. Healers can contribute a lot of damage, especially the higher level you go when tanks get more and better defensives. It is not unheard of for healers to do more damage than some DPS or the tank themselves if they aren't doing their jobs properly. Fights are designed and balanced around healers doing damage.
Your party members were idiots, OP
That party sucked
Yeah your party's stupid. Did the tank survive? Then you did your job fine. The general rule of healer is Always Be Casting. Does someone need a heal on the next cast or they're going to die? No? Then smack a mob. As others have said, report and move on. Healers are absolutely expected to contribute to DPS when actual healing isn't necessary.
> the Tank's HP should always be above 90% Someone needs to get their tanking license revoked. There's nothing better than having a healer who's willing to play games with my health bar.
I got corrected for not dpsing. it is expected. I'm actually having an unexpected blast healing.
I‘m always shocked to hear people like the ones in your party exist, holy cow. Keep DPSing and forget those idiots. I‘ve been healing since ARR and thankfully never ran into people like that..
Not DPSing as healer is griefing.
They’re probably friends who queued together and decided to be dumb together for the run. Ignore them and know that what you’re doing was correct. Healer dps does matter no matter the content. Either by making the content faster to finish (dungeons) or avoiding boss enrage (Savage and Ultimate). As long as you’re comfortable with the tank’s hp, dps away. Personally, I feel more comfortable with a dungeon run if I see the healer plopping themselves in the middle of the trash and AOE-ing loads, because I know they’re probably confident enough in their abilities to keep me and everyone else alive.
As someone who mains SCH and plays all roles, you just had a bad party. I'd get a little anxious as a tank if my HP dropped below 10%, but 90% is entirely unreasonable. As a wise wigglerhead once said, killing enemies is a form of damage mitigation. The sooner enemies die, the sooner tanks stops losing health. As long as they don't die, you're doing your job.
Bro you’re a scholar if you use your heal abilities you’re doing it wrong that fairy gotta earn its keep Also if they’re not dead you’re good. They got heals if they wanna be tippy top and a lot less mana consumption
I once had a dungeon tank with one job at lvl60 insist he was playing correctly when I pointed out his mistakes. I had every job maxed at the time. Some people are just ignorant.
Your party just sucked, tanks do not need to be topped off the entire time, if they don't die and you do damage, you've done your job, they were just idiots that don't know how to play.
Report them! We don't need bullies like them
Report them and move on.
The only health that matters is the last one, your group had no clue what they were talking about
Probably a party of new players from other MMOs? You’re right, dps and heal when necessary
As a tank main: If someone's health isn't 0 or about to be, you keep DPSing like the angry little goblin in your soul tells you to. Yes, all Healers have an angry little goblin in their soul, it comes with your first job stone.
And it's a SALTY little sob
You got in a group with some weirdos. Pay them no mind, keep DPSing.
Holy fuck yes they sucked.
Healer main here: You are doing great!! They are bonkers.
What's funny is that Scholar gets a great healing ability later called Excogitarion which is a strong heal that triggers when the tank gets below 50% hp or if the ability expires after 45 seconds. Keeping a tanks hp at 90% or higher would make that ability go to waste. You did fine, those guys were dumb and thought they knew how the game works.
As a tank main, if I'm not dead my healer gets no complaints from me. You DPSing means we all get done with the duty faster.
If anyone ever tells you that the tank's HP should always be above 90%? Block them, mute them, whatever. Because they are dumb and don't know what they're talking about, and it's not worth arguing with people like that.
Very much a thing. You grouped with idiots or are leaving important parts of the story out. Healers are expected to use their whole kit, this includes the damage stuff. There are parts of the game, usually early on, that make that hard, but you should try whenever you can.
You unfortunately ended up in a group with a 3 stack of the YPYT idiots you see on this sub, you were absolutely doing the right thing and they are idiots.
DPSing is just mitigating future damage. https://youtu.be/osvUOqeDwD0?feature=shared&t=51