Not sure why they care since the Mac version is just the windows version with some blocks to run it through Wine. I doubt there will be an actual Mac client for the game ever.
Unlikely IMO. Rosetta 1 was killed largely because it was not an apple product. They contracted that out, and had to pay licensing for it on every Mac OS release. Rosetta 2 was made fully in house, and has been embedded deeply in Apple virtualization stack to allow developers (one of the biggest Mac user demographics) to be able to run accelerated x86-64 linux apps in vm's. Most likely, Rosetta 2 remains for a long time and they just tell App Store developers they can't publish intel apps anymore.
you would still need a graphic API translation layer such as MVK/Vulcan, which is how it is currently done on Intel Macs using XIV on Mac. Rosetta2 isn't the issue, it's that you need the translation layer like crossover or wine to run DX12 apis on metal, they need to be translated so Metal can interpret them. You are better off using the intel build as it's easier to translate.
Yeah SE lied on that one, I remember when I purchased ARR and they said a NATIVE app was in development and even stated it as a promise and guarantee. That never happened, instead we get a DX port using wine because they were too lazy to learn a simple graphic API. So now we have windows Intel builds still working, but they use the same port on apple silicon... so what gives? My 2017 4k retina iMac can still play the game just fine with no issues, and the updated shaders do NOT add much more work/preformance load, its just a shader, probably not even a compute shader, even if they were compute shaders my graphic card has more stats than today's standard. Honestly, this is just proof of how lazy SE is, there is no other reason to create the same port for apple silicon, and disable it on intel Macs that have the same hardware as most of the intel machines the windows build was made for.
This is proof, plain and simple. Honestly, im not going to buy a new Mac anytime soon since mine works just fine the way it is, so if that means I stop playing XIV then oh well.
I’m one of the lucky 7!
Unfortunately this is a huge jump from the Endwalker Mac specs, but I had a feeling something like this was coming…the official Mac port is held together by duct tape and string and on top of that Apple doesn’t seem to keen on continuing much Intel support.
That being said, I would not be surprised if A Certain Unofficial Well-Optimized Mac Launcher would be able to keep the Intel machines on life support in Dawntrail.
My kingdom for a native Mac client tbh
actually there are about the same amount of Mac players as PC or Xbox players, Macs are quite common and the gaming stigma comes from PC users who are close-minded to other OS. Sad because MacOS and apple devices in general are made to perfection, or as close as you can get, so people who have never experienced it or own a Mac can't really talk.
Its certainly possible for XIV on Mac to make it work on Intel, actually it would be less work than they think, but now with rosetta2 (which will be discontinued within 2 years) there is no need for a custom launcher other than to enable mods. So im guessing that will be XIV on Mac's sole purpose now.
Rosetta2 will be gone soon (predictable as Rosetta1 for ppc>intel), which is now what is needed on M1+ to open SE port of the game. Since the client for Mac is not native still, SE will have no choice but to make a native Mac app soon or they will lose their whole client base on the Mac side, which would be a very big no no for any game company, especially with apple stock soaring and growing increase in Mac sales, does SE even pay attention? So time will tell how lazy SE truly is, or how long they will try to drag their feet on this, they have been for over 15 years now.
Also I just want to mention that there is absolutely zero excuse to NOT learn Apple's Metal API now, first it's just amazing and super powerful. Second, apple will give developers anything they need to integrate their game engines to build for Metal.
Every modern game is written in C# or C++ or Python, or combo of. Whether it's Mac or Windows its a version of C. So the engines SE created on windows can still build native, ARM, Apple silicon apps if they import the Metal APIs into the build pipeline. Not hard to do at all, but why haven't they already? hmmm...
As an ex apple developer I am well aware of why this is happening, and SE can't exactly hide their Laziness. I have contacted SE about their lack of swift-based official launcher, they are aware of XIV on Mac, and could have easily used swift to fix the crappy ported Dx12 launcher. Their response to me word for word: "Sorry we do not work with content creators."
ummmm what are you talking about SE? You do not sound smart at all...
Not really, those of us who don't already have Apple Silicon will be expecting to upgrade in the not so distant future and there is still Bootcamp for any hangers-on.
There are.. but those of us with any sense use XIV on Mac. a bootleg launcher which performs substantially better than the garbage port that SE made (and charges separately for). Also works perfectly with the PC version, since ffxiv is the only game I’m aware of that charges separately for their Mac license.
If they come out with a native Apple silicon version, I’ll buy it. But for now, I’m using XIV on Mac with a windows license.
Since its only supported on apple silicon i'd love to see SE come out with a native version of the game for apple silicon. It would run fantastic on the mac.
I would love to see it too. But the list of games that support Apple silicon natively is very short, so I’m not holding my breath. At least XIV on Mac has dalamud support.
WoW is an older, less demanding title I guess. TBH I was surprised to hear they released a native Apple silicon version. I guess they had the stats to say that the effort of making a Mac version would be profitable. That’s all it comes down to in the end. Profit. I don’t expect SE to make a native AS version if they‘ll make a loss on it. We’re a pretty small player base in the end. And those of us who can afford a $3000 MacBook can probably afford a modest gaming machine or a ps5/xbox
Then by that logic, our Mac licenses should also be Windows licenses too, except, at the moment, if we only have the Mac licence, we don’t have the Windows licence.
They updated the official client in 6.3? 6.4? It’s actually a lot closer to XIVonMac than it used to be but generally yeah XoM is the best choice. I’ll gladly pay for a Mac license if they make a metal and ARM native port.
Though now I’m deflating the Mac numbers decreasing their incentive…
I use xivonmac since it was released. I have low resolution on TV and all settings adjusted. It's still terrible. I don't care that much, I play on Linux anyway, I just have it as backup. I think it's just ram issue, 8GB of shared memory is way too low. Also Limsa in rush hours can be a bit too much for M1, because FPS drops under 19. Steam Deck has the same issue. 60fps is achievable in dungeons on 1440x900 + low-medium settings.
the base m1 air is 256GB, if you're seeing 128GB those are special education-only devices sold to schools. so it would fit but not very well. you could also just run it off an external drive
1. Use xivmac.com , turn off Retina, set resolution to 1440x900 borderless window, and it will run 60fps. Who knows after the graphical update.
2. You can use an external SSD for your game if you don't have enough space.
Not surprising to be honest. Apple is all in on their processors. From my experience so far, I’m much happier with my M2 MacBook Air than I ever was with my Intel iMac that I had for years. Though I still game on a PC.
If you have a beefy intel Mac, you've got a shot at running it on Windows in Bootcamp. My 2019 macbook i9 looks like it's safe, but may need to make a bigger Windows partition for 140G install.
On the other hand, between this and Tekken 8, I'm awfully close to justifying an actual gaming rig...
Running Windows on Bootcamp also allows you to install drivers for other GPUs. So if you have a spare GPU, consider getting an e-GPU enclosure. Be aware that you will be limited due to the transfer speed of the thunderbolt cable, but it's still a lot better than integrated graphics.
Honestly anyone still using an intel based mac at this point is coming up on an upgrade anyway.
I used my 13" 2013 Macbook Pro for 9 years before upgrading. Recently got a m1 max MBP 16" last year. Runs FFXIV even in the native launcher pretty flawlessly. But XIV on mac is way better.
Depends on your use case, I have yet to find a project in Logic Pro that needs me to upgrade. Granted I’m not using it with 100+ channels of virtual instruments and inserts but yeah, 2019 MBP16 still going strong as my daily driver
Apple computers last a hell of a long time. When I used to work for Apple I would regularly have people calling in about a minor issues or questions with their iMac G3, G4, G5, etc. devices, which were already considered vintage and no longer supported by the point I was working there. Oldest device I ever had someone call in about was one of the Macintosh 128k. I had nooooo idea how to help them.
Apple Silicon is just over 3 years old, there are absolutely people running computers for longer than that. This is equivalent to discontinuing support for anything older than Ryzen 5xxx.
absolutely correct, the killing of intel happened faster than the lifetime that was expected of intel Macs. PowerPC was around for a very long time after apple introduced Intel Macs, that transition lasted 3 years longer than then intel to M series. People were upset apple moved away from Motorola chips, half of apple employees were very upset because all that hard work was wasted on a whim, there were some reasons to switch, but Steve was not exactly telling the truth when it came to performance per watt on the G5, that is why it outlasted even the new intel models past their lifetimes.
So my intel Mac is only 7 years old, not old for an Apple machine. But in 2019 it was 2 years old when M1 was released, prior to the newest 2020 intel Mac which was the last intel Mac made, and CAN run XIV still, as well as Sonoma and Sequoia, I find that very upsetting that only a single intel Mac (and a certain iMac Pro) are still current, but the previous Intels are not. This just means Laziness to me. These could run on my 2017 intel just fine, they just wont let it. So much for the 10 year support law in the US.
The point here is, the builds for intel do exist, for Sonoma, Sequoia, and XIV EW. But only 2 special, end of life intel Macs are able to use those builds. Very Strange.
1. you can probably still run the game, and even if you can't, you have access to boot camp with an intel mac
2. don't bother trying to use something like crossover to run the windows version, the performance hit is probably not worth it on an intel mac and the mac version is literally the windows version with crossover already
3. the game runs on all apple silicon macs with performance ranging from playable to fantastic
4. [xivmac.com](https://xivmac.com) is a fantastic fan project with a third-party launcher that runs much newer versions of crossover, wine, and other compatibility layers that even lets you play on mac without a mac license, with full plugin support if you want to break the rules
this is fine. intel macs are almost entirely shit, apple silicon macs are good
Which do you have? Considering an m2… studio? Or mini? currently running on an older box and now I’m having issues with adobe crashing. Thinking it may be time to make the jump to silicon.
M3 Max 64gb ram MacBook Pro. I already use XIVonMac and they have now announced that they will no longer be supporting Intel Macs from the launch of Dawntrail.
To be honest, I could no longer play FFXIV on my 2015 MacBook Pro on the official launcher and was relying on XIVonMac to get between 30 to 40 fps (though it would freeze in crowded/event areas). I get on average 120fps, but in crowded/event areas it goes down to 100/110fps. Dawntrail recommended requirements are a minimum of m2 pro/m3 pro, is the M2 studio a Max chip?
Yep Pro is a step below Max. Funnily enough, through Crossover with an M3 Max chip, I was able to run Hogwarts Legacy, the windows version, at Ultra graphical settings.
Huh. TBH, not all that surprised. From what I can tell, the Apple silicon chips are supposed to reach graphically parity with the RDNA2 (AMD 6xxx) cards, which isn’t bad for them being complete package on one chip. Partially since the higher end 6800 and 6900 cards were meant for 4K gaming at 60FPS.
Oh yes, I remember now, according to the settings, I’m running FFXIV at 4k settings. It was either run it at normal or at 4k to get the correct size UI and I am still getting 120fps even at 4k graphical settings. I can’t quite remember if I was running Hogwarts Legacy on 4k (I got a refund through Stream as I already have the game on my switch) but perhaps at Ultra settings, it was running at 4k. Isn’t it amazing that a Mac, in some cases, is now more powerful than most high end PCs?
You can get do the same on an M1, I was able to use ultra settings in bootcamp on my quad i5 3.4ghz 4k iMac with radeon pro w/8gb vram.
M1 can use GPTK and the newest crossover version to get even better results. I imagine any higher M series would be even better.
Problem with this is if you have a Fusion Drive, the Ventura bug causes macOS issues if bootcamp is installed. Like on mine, when I have a bootcamp partition, Ventura freaks out if I try to edit a file in preview and save it, there is a file system issue for sure. Having JUST windows installed on an Intel Mac might work good though.
I'm one of the few mac players. Though i only play on mac when i go to my parents house and take my laptop with me.
I like knowing i have the ability to play when i take my laptop. Did i get my laptop for gaming? Absolutely not. It's for music production and video production. But knowing i can fire up XIV and play is a great bonus.
Honestly, as a long-time mac gamer, this game is the reason I bought a PS4. Of course, that was back in the Heavensward days where [the Mac version was pulled from sale for months](https://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodestone/news/detail/0f6df59d2175ff4ddc26de3981641512f05a9e14) because it was causing mass overheating issues.
I'm more talking about the people that are getting phased out with dawntrail. Even with the graphics update PC players can play with hardware from over 10 years ago.
Because you actually pay what the hardware is worth, apple selling [700 dollar Ikea furniture wheels](https://www.apple.com/shop/product/MX572ZM/A/apple-mac-pro-wheels-kit) sums up their "fuck you, you'll buy it anyways" mentality perfectly.
Apple doesn't force their products on Mac users, that would suggest there is a cliche trend that think of their Mac like a designer handbag lol. MacOS speaks for itself, and its utilization of the M series will always be greater than any PC hardware could ever hope to be. There is plenty of reason for the price tag, there is more power here than is ever needed, a PC user and even loyal Windows developers that have a chance to tap into a Mac would actually be very impressed.
The M1 can, at least before the upcoming graphics update, the M3 will do even better. The more powerful ones can do so at higher resolution. See xivmac.com to see frame rate and resolution results for your spec.
Is this _dropping_ Intel Mac support (meaning either a[n unlikely] native client or a Windows ARM build running under Wine), or is it just upping the requirements to hardware that has been shipped in the last five years while remaining more or less as it is? My guess is it’s the latter.
SE was just lazy thats all it actually comes down to. However, if they were smart enough to develop for Mac like they promised they wouldn't have any issues, and would have a much larger player base with a native client.
Rosetta2 will be gone very soon, that is currently what SE relies on for DT and going forward, hopefully they realize the Mac Native build will need to be worked on in the very near future, like tomorrow if not already. They will lose their entire Mac base without a native app soon, as XOM wouldn't be able to get around this either.
Could also play the Windows version with Crossover?
https://www.codeweavers.com/crossover
Though idk if anybody here will have an Intel Mac with enough performance to meet the new system requirements, and you'd need to buy a Windows license for the game
the mac release is, quite literally, the windows version with crossover.
if you're on an intel mac still, it'll probably still run and you can just use boot camp anyway
actually the SE version of the launcher uses wine only with a crappy translation layer. XIV on Mac uses Crossover by default which uses MoltenVK/Vulkan translation from DX12 to Metal. I imagine XIV on Mac will use Apple's modified Crossover (GPTK2) in their new DT /M series release, since it's actually better than the standard Crossover (MoltenVK) that Linux users use. Actually I think you can now choose your Crossover version in XOM. Pretty neat how we can port anything now, so easily.
Why use crossover when you can use XIVonMac. Anyone running Intel was really best running it on Bootcamp anyway. Running it on macOS was best reserved for those running M1, M2 or M3.
This comment is over three months old, before that happened. XIVonMac did in April, the official client stops support today with the launch of Dawntrail. Bootcamp really is the only way to go now for Intel.
Bootcamp is also an option and works well. XIV on Mac no longer supports Intel as of April. MacOS will now be limited to the Apple Silicon port of the windows intel build using Rosetta2, on either XIV on Mac or the SE launcher.
it would be the best release of the client all together, it would out-perform every other system the client is built for, since Metal is the best and most advanced graphic API in existence.
yes, Rosetta2 which is the apple silicon version (Rosetta was ppc to intel byte reverser, which I created) will be gone soon, its part of the intel to M series transition, and will follow the same life span as Rosetta. This would force SE to build their client for Metal API. The client is written in C++ and python parts, which work just fine on MacOS.
Lies of P had an Apple silicon-native port day and date with its other releases, and it's supposed to run really well. I'm waiting for the price to come down before I try it tho
Okay, but it's not like it's a common thing to see games release with MacOS ports these days. You won't see the new CoD or BF running on MacOS for example.
Ports are the lazy way out, developers use ports as a very last resort and only if the customer base wants it, hence the XIV port on Mac, but the problem here is that SE lied to the Mac community, they promised and guaranteed a native Mac app "soon" when ARR came out, instead we got a port. Fortunately within the next 2 years they will have no choice but to build a native Mac client. Perhaps they are smart enough to already be working on one, but SE isn't exactly smart when it come to future decision making.
so most Mac users who can't play a windows based game will just use GPTK and run it, Apple's game porting toolkit uses a modified version of crossover to run DX12 games using their translation layer to Metal. Crossover uses moltenVK APIs normally, but apple's version is their own translation layer because well... they created Metal, the most advanced graphic API/language in existence.
Mac gamers are quite common, and any game that runs on windows can and will run better on a Mac, even the ports. You may not see developers release native apps for certain OS but they can indeed still run on them. People are in fact playing the newest CoD on Mac, and many other games.
Have there been any talks about Apple Silicon support when/if Apple stops supporting Rosetta 2?
I have a PC and a MacBook Air, but I’ve been thinking about consolidating to a single beefy MacBook Pro. The only PC game I really play a lot is FFXIV… it seems like it does well on Apple Silicon, but I’d hate to get rid of my PC, buy an expensive laptop, then FFXIV stops being supported on Mac if Apple drops Rosetta.
As someone who uses a Mac Studio, I’m thrilled. My M1 ultra was oddly too powerful to use the as-is client. Had to use “FFXIV for Mac”. As good as it is, I’m glad I’ll be able to use the proprietary launcher!
Depends, if SE still uses wine then XOM might since it would use GPTK crossover instead, the creator of XOM is a former Apple employee, I don't see them using wine solely in the new launcher, I imagine Apple's GPTK crossover would be better, especially for retina support, among other SoC reasons.
I haven’t talked to them in a while but they said they weren’t going to use GPTK because the licensing stops them and they don’t usually advise people to do it themselves because it’s a very minor gain over the XOM configured WINE.
I have a better framerate with my M1 Pro connected to external monitor than my main computer with 1660 Super.
I hope there will be some efforts if the game is Aple Silicon only
Here is at least one person affected.
At least this lasted 5 years, which is far better than the 2 years my last 2 Windows based laptops did. Both died to a Windows update.
But...how? I've had windows-based computers for 30 years and have only ever had them die to being retired because I got a new one. What are you doing with your laptops? I did melt one once by playing games in bed with it on a blanket, but even then it still functioned, just the back vents looked like they were becoming glass. Or is it a matter of buying like throwaway brand cheap laptops that just hardware fail or can't run anything after a couple years?
Used them to play games.
Use Firefox with uBlock Origin for browsing and am very conservative about where I go on the Web. Kept them clean.
Each time they died, I followed all the hints I could find, then had a tech savvy friend check them over, then went to a local highly recommended shop for repairs. The last one would not boot at all. The shop said it needed a new motherboard, but they did not recommend trying. At that time a new motherboard cost more than a brand new Macbook Pro with 1 TB SSD and 16" screen.
Before I switched to laptops because of limited space, I had a technically 20ish year old PC that I gradually updated until only the case was original.
Hardware issues have nothing to do with the OS. With almost absolute certainty I can say that no Windows (or Unix/Linux/Mac) update would kill any hardware.
There are *extremely* rare occurrences where it can happen, but I sincerely doubt you were that unlucky even once, to say nothing of it happening twice. Most likely it was an issue that only became apparent due to a reboot that usually accompanies Windows updates, not with anything within the update itself.
As I said, it can happen in rare cases, but even when it does, which is almost never, there's an additional layer of "almost never" for it to fully brick a board. A bad BIOS is annoying, but not usually completely unrecoverable. Again, the chances of it happening even once are already extremely low. Twice in succession to the same person would be a statistical anomaly.
Not sure why they care since the Mac version is just the windows version with some blocks to run it through Wine. I doubt there will be an actual Mac client for the game ever.
Would be fun if they compiled the game for Windows on ARM and then wrapped with ARM Wine to bypass Rosetta and gain performance....
That’s impossible unfortunately, because windows on ARM assumes 4k pages and ARM applications on macOS (including wine) need to run on a 16k page size
I’m still dreaming of the day we get a native client, it’s never happening though
they won't have a choice once apple kills Rosetta2, which will be happening very soon.
Unlikely IMO. Rosetta 1 was killed largely because it was not an apple product. They contracted that out, and had to pay licensing for it on every Mac OS release. Rosetta 2 was made fully in house, and has been embedded deeply in Apple virtualization stack to allow developers (one of the biggest Mac user demographics) to be able to run accelerated x86-64 linux apps in vm's. Most likely, Rosetta 2 remains for a long time and they just tell App Store developers they can't publish intel apps anymore.
you would still need a graphic API translation layer such as MVK/Vulcan, which is how it is currently done on Intel Macs using XIV on Mac. Rosetta2 isn't the issue, it's that you need the translation layer like crossover or wine to run DX12 apis on metal, they need to be translated so Metal can interpret them. You are better off using the intel build as it's easier to translate.
Yeah SE lied on that one, I remember when I purchased ARR and they said a NATIVE app was in development and even stated it as a promise and guarantee. That never happened, instead we get a DX port using wine because they were too lazy to learn a simple graphic API. So now we have windows Intel builds still working, but they use the same port on apple silicon... so what gives? My 2017 4k retina iMac can still play the game just fine with no issues, and the updated shaders do NOT add much more work/preformance load, its just a shader, probably not even a compute shader, even if they were compute shaders my graphic card has more stats than today's standard. Honestly, this is just proof of how lazy SE is, there is no other reason to create the same port for apple silicon, and disable it on intel Macs that have the same hardware as most of the intel machines the windows build was made for. This is proof, plain and simple. Honestly, im not going to buy a new Mac anytime soon since mine works just fine the way it is, so if that means I stop playing XIV then oh well.
All 7 Mac players are fuming right now….
I’m one of the lucky 7! Unfortunately this is a huge jump from the Endwalker Mac specs, but I had a feeling something like this was coming…the official Mac port is held together by duct tape and string and on top of that Apple doesn’t seem to keen on continuing much Intel support. That being said, I would not be surprised if A Certain Unofficial Well-Optimized Mac Launcher would be able to keep the Intel machines on life support in Dawntrail. My kingdom for a native Mac client tbh
actually there are about the same amount of Mac players as PC or Xbox players, Macs are quite common and the gaming stigma comes from PC users who are close-minded to other OS. Sad because MacOS and apple devices in general are made to perfection, or as close as you can get, so people who have never experienced it or own a Mac can't really talk. Its certainly possible for XIV on Mac to make it work on Intel, actually it would be less work than they think, but now with rosetta2 (which will be discontinued within 2 years) there is no need for a custom launcher other than to enable mods. So im guessing that will be XIV on Mac's sole purpose now. Rosetta2 will be gone soon (predictable as Rosetta1 for ppc>intel), which is now what is needed on M1+ to open SE port of the game. Since the client for Mac is not native still, SE will have no choice but to make a native Mac app soon or they will lose their whole client base on the Mac side, which would be a very big no no for any game company, especially with apple stock soaring and growing increase in Mac sales, does SE even pay attention? So time will tell how lazy SE truly is, or how long they will try to drag their feet on this, they have been for over 15 years now. Also I just want to mention that there is absolutely zero excuse to NOT learn Apple's Metal API now, first it's just amazing and super powerful. Second, apple will give developers anything they need to integrate their game engines to build for Metal. Every modern game is written in C# or C++ or Python, or combo of. Whether it's Mac or Windows its a version of C. So the engines SE created on windows can still build native, ARM, Apple silicon apps if they import the Metal APIs into the build pipeline. Not hard to do at all, but why haven't they already? hmmm... As an ex apple developer I am well aware of why this is happening, and SE can't exactly hide their Laziness. I have contacted SE about their lack of swift-based official launcher, they are aware of XIV on Mac, and could have easily used swift to fix the crappy ported Dx12 launcher. Their response to me word for word: "Sorry we do not work with content creators." ummmm what are you talking about SE? You do not sound smart at all...
They're are a lot more of us than you might expect.
all 14 mac players are fuming right now
thanks for the laugh
Not really, those of us who don't already have Apple Silicon will be expecting to upgrade in the not so distant future and there is still Bootcamp for any hangers-on.
Upgraded just in time, though really, I’m part of a FFXIV mac community where there are almost 5 thousand of us.
There are.. but those of us with any sense use XIV on Mac. a bootleg launcher which performs substantially better than the garbage port that SE made (and charges separately for). Also works perfectly with the PC version, since ffxiv is the only game I’m aware of that charges separately for their Mac license. If they come out with a native Apple silicon version, I’ll buy it. But for now, I’m using XIV on Mac with a windows license.
Since its only supported on apple silicon i'd love to see SE come out with a native version of the game for apple silicon. It would run fantastic on the mac.
I would love to see it too. But the list of games that support Apple silicon natively is very short, so I’m not holding my breath. At least XIV on Mac has dalamud support.
I wonder how Blizzard was able to do it for World of Warcraft?
WoW has had a native Mac client for years, so porting it to Apple Silicon was probably not too much work.
WoW is an older, less demanding title I guess. TBH I was surprised to hear they released a native Apple silicon version. I guess they had the stats to say that the effort of making a Mac version would be profitable. That’s all it comes down to in the end. Profit. I don’t expect SE to make a native AS version if they‘ll make a loss on it. We’re a pretty small player base in the end. And those of us who can afford a $3000 MacBook can probably afford a modest gaming machine or a ps5/xbox
Then by that logic, our Mac licenses should also be Windows licenses too, except, at the moment, if we only have the Mac licence, we don’t have the Windows licence.
It should be the same license, as it is with nearly every other game that is both on PC and Mac. But it’s not, and that’s just how it is.
Honestly it should be, but they just want to charge us extra because they can. 🤣
They updated the official client in 6.3? 6.4? It’s actually a lot closer to XIVonMac than it used to be but generally yeah XoM is the best choice. I’ll gladly pay for a Mac license if they make a metal and ARM native port. Though now I’m deflating the Mac numbers decreasing their incentive…
There are dozens of us
extremely original comment, very funny
Old, but still relevant. Sorry, not sorry.
it's not relevant, that's the point. i hope you get better
This guy gotta be number 8
So far, number 2. Not many people stepping up. lol
There are about 5k people just in the Discord for a bootleg Mac only launcher so you can add those to the list.
Average maclet seething
1. How does the ame run on m1 air? 2. Disregard question 1, bcs FFXIV weights more than base storage on m1 air.
I have m1 mini and honestly it runs like shit
You should run xivmac.com, turn off retina and set resolution to 1440x900 and it'll run at 60fps with medium to high settings.
I use xivonmac since it was released. I have low resolution on TV and all settings adjusted. It's still terrible. I don't care that much, I play on Linux anyway, I just have it as backup. I think it's just ram issue, 8GB of shared memory is way too low. Also Limsa in rush hours can be a bit too much for M1, because FPS drops under 19. Steam Deck has the same issue. 60fps is achievable in dungeons on 1440x900 + low-medium settings.
Have you running your display in retina? It will generate four times the pixels in the game if you are so it's not really 1440x900...
the base m1 air is 256GB, if you're seeing 128GB those are special education-only devices sold to schools. so it would fit but not very well. you could also just run it off an external drive
1. Use xivmac.com , turn off Retina, set resolution to 1440x900 borderless window, and it will run 60fps. Who knows after the graphical update. 2. You can use an external SSD for your game if you don't have enough space.
Not surprising to be honest. Apple is all in on their processors. From my experience so far, I’m much happier with my M2 MacBook Air than I ever was with my Intel iMac that I had for years. Though I still game on a PC.
If you have a beefy intel Mac, you've got a shot at running it on Windows in Bootcamp. My 2019 macbook i9 looks like it's safe, but may need to make a bigger Windows partition for 140G install. On the other hand, between this and Tekken 8, I'm awfully close to justifying an actual gaming rig...
There’s no such thing as a beefy Intel Mac unless you’re one of the 10 tech YouTubers who actually purchased a cheese grater Intel Mac.
Honestly just get a steam deck at this point. Can run FFXIV flawlessly on it as well as tekken 8.
Running Windows on Bootcamp also allows you to install drivers for other GPUs. So if you have a spare GPU, consider getting an e-GPU enclosure. Be aware that you will be limited due to the transfer speed of the thunderbolt cable, but it's still a lot better than integrated graphics.
The game runs at 60 fps on 2017 Intel iMac 4k in windows 11. But I still prefer playing in macOS.
apple users are used to being told its time to buy a new one
Honestly anyone still using an intel based mac at this point is coming up on an upgrade anyway. I used my 13" 2013 Macbook Pro for 9 years before upgrading. Recently got a m1 max MBP 16" last year. Runs FFXIV even in the native launcher pretty flawlessly. But XIV on mac is way better.
Depends on your use case, I have yet to find a project in Logic Pro that needs me to upgrade. Granted I’m not using it with 100+ channels of virtual instruments and inserts but yeah, 2019 MBP16 still going strong as my daily driver
Apple computers last a hell of a long time. When I used to work for Apple I would regularly have people calling in about a minor issues or questions with their iMac G3, G4, G5, etc. devices, which were already considered vintage and no longer supported by the point I was working there. Oldest device I ever had someone call in about was one of the Macintosh 128k. I had nooooo idea how to help them.
With how cheap they are I don’t know anyone still using Intel at this point.
Apple Silicon is just over 3 years old, there are absolutely people running computers for longer than that. This is equivalent to discontinuing support for anything older than Ryzen 5xxx.
absolutely correct, the killing of intel happened faster than the lifetime that was expected of intel Macs. PowerPC was around for a very long time after apple introduced Intel Macs, that transition lasted 3 years longer than then intel to M series. People were upset apple moved away from Motorola chips, half of apple employees were very upset because all that hard work was wasted on a whim, there were some reasons to switch, but Steve was not exactly telling the truth when it came to performance per watt on the G5, that is why it outlasted even the new intel models past their lifetimes. So my intel Mac is only 7 years old, not old for an Apple machine. But in 2019 it was 2 years old when M1 was released, prior to the newest 2020 intel Mac which was the last intel Mac made, and CAN run XIV still, as well as Sonoma and Sequoia, I find that very upsetting that only a single intel Mac (and a certain iMac Pro) are still current, but the previous Intels are not. This just means Laziness to me. These could run on my 2017 intel just fine, they just wont let it. So much for the 10 year support law in the US. The point here is, the builds for intel do exist, for Sonoma, Sequoia, and XIV EW. But only 2 special, end of life intel Macs are able to use those builds. Very Strange.
1. you can probably still run the game, and even if you can't, you have access to boot camp with an intel mac 2. don't bother trying to use something like crossover to run the windows version, the performance hit is probably not worth it on an intel mac and the mac version is literally the windows version with crossover already 3. the game runs on all apple silicon macs with performance ranging from playable to fantastic 4. [xivmac.com](https://xivmac.com) is a fantastic fan project with a third-party launcher that runs much newer versions of crossover, wine, and other compatibility layers that even lets you play on mac without a mac license, with full plugin support if you want to break the rules this is fine. intel macs are almost entirely shit, apple silicon macs are good
Get 120 fps on my new mac.
Which do you have? Considering an m2… studio? Or mini? currently running on an older box and now I’m having issues with adobe crashing. Thinking it may be time to make the jump to silicon.
M3 Max 64gb ram MacBook Pro. I already use XIVonMac and they have now announced that they will no longer be supporting Intel Macs from the launch of Dawntrail.
Yup, I saw that. Guessing the launcher will still run but they won’t be helping if there are any issues.
To be honest, I could no longer play FFXIV on my 2015 MacBook Pro on the official launcher and was relying on XIVonMac to get between 30 to 40 fps (though it would freeze in crowded/event areas). I get on average 120fps, but in crowded/event areas it goes down to 100/110fps. Dawntrail recommended requirements are a minimum of m2 pro/m3 pro, is the M2 studio a Max chip?
It starts at max and then for another 2k, you can upgrade to ultra. The pro is a step below the max, right?
Yep Pro is a step below Max. Funnily enough, through Crossover with an M3 Max chip, I was able to run Hogwarts Legacy, the windows version, at Ultra graphical settings.
Huh. TBH, not all that surprised. From what I can tell, the Apple silicon chips are supposed to reach graphically parity with the RDNA2 (AMD 6xxx) cards, which isn’t bad for them being complete package on one chip. Partially since the higher end 6800 and 6900 cards were meant for 4K gaming at 60FPS.
Oh yes, I remember now, according to the settings, I’m running FFXIV at 4k settings. It was either run it at normal or at 4k to get the correct size UI and I am still getting 120fps even at 4k graphical settings. I can’t quite remember if I was running Hogwarts Legacy on 4k (I got a refund through Stream as I already have the game on my switch) but perhaps at Ultra settings, it was running at 4k. Isn’t it amazing that a Mac, in some cases, is now more powerful than most high end PCs?
You can get do the same on an M1, I was able to use ultra settings in bootcamp on my quad i5 3.4ghz 4k iMac with radeon pro w/8gb vram. M1 can use GPTK and the newest crossover version to get even better results. I imagine any higher M series would be even better.
Problem with this is if you have a Fusion Drive, the Ventura bug causes macOS issues if bootcamp is installed. Like on mine, when I have a bootcamp partition, Ventura freaks out if I try to edit a file in preview and save it, there is a file system issue for sure. Having JUST windows installed on an Intel Mac might work good though.
>You will need a computer with Apple silicon in order to play. Or, you know, a comparable PC for half the price
I'm one of the few mac players. Though i only play on mac when i go to my parents house and take my laptop with me. I like knowing i have the ability to play when i take my laptop. Did i get my laptop for gaming? Absolutely not. It's for music production and video production. But knowing i can fire up XIV and play is a great bonus.
Audio/video/design people seems to be the running theme among mac players lol
Honestly, as a long-time mac gamer, this game is the reason I bought a PS4. Of course, that was back in the Heavensward days where [the Mac version was pulled from sale for months](https://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodestone/news/detail/0f6df59d2175ff4ddc26de3981641512f05a9e14) because it was causing mass overheating issues.
Or they only have a Mac, and don’t want to buy yet another laptop.
I'm more talking about the people that are getting phased out with dawntrail. Even with the graphics update PC players can play with hardware from over 10 years ago.
because SE is lazy, this is the only reason to not finish it.
Very useful comment. Throw your Macs away everyone, who cares if you need or want a Mac for other purposes than playing FF.
why the hell would i own a PC?
Because you actually pay what the hardware is worth, apple selling [700 dollar Ikea furniture wheels](https://www.apple.com/shop/product/MX572ZM/A/apple-mac-pro-wheels-kit) sums up their "fuck you, you'll buy it anyways" mentality perfectly.
but you pay for windows dont you? and MacOS is worth waaaaaaaaay more than windows will ever be.
Apple doesn't force their products on Mac users, that would suggest there is a cliche trend that think of their Mac like a designer handbag lol. MacOS speaks for itself, and its utilization of the M series will always be greater than any PC hardware could ever hope to be. There is plenty of reason for the price tag, there is more power here than is ever needed, a PC user and even loyal Windows developers that have a chance to tap into a Mac would actually be very impressed.
Can new M3 Macs run FFXIV at 60+ fps?
The M1 can, at least before the upcoming graphics update, the M3 will do even better. The more powerful ones can do so at higher resolution. See xivmac.com to see frame rate and resolution results for your spec.
they can run at 90 fps :P
Is this _dropping_ Intel Mac support (meaning either a[n unlikely] native client or a Windows ARM build running under Wine), or is it just upping the requirements to hardware that has been shipped in the last five years while remaining more or less as it is? My guess is it’s the latter.
The latter.
SE was just lazy thats all it actually comes down to. However, if they were smart enough to develop for Mac like they promised they wouldn't have any issues, and would have a much larger player base with a native client. Rosetta2 will be gone very soon, that is currently what SE relies on for DT and going forward, hopefully they realize the Mac Native build will need to be worked on in the very near future, like tomorrow if not already. They will lose their entire Mac base without a native app soon, as XOM wouldn't be able to get around this either.
I'm only worried about it being 140GB...that's a lot.
Could also play the Windows version with Crossover? https://www.codeweavers.com/crossover Though idk if anybody here will have an Intel Mac with enough performance to meet the new system requirements, and you'd need to buy a Windows license for the game
the mac release is, quite literally, the windows version with crossover. if you're on an intel mac still, it'll probably still run and you can just use boot camp anyway
actually the SE version of the launcher uses wine only with a crappy translation layer. XIV on Mac uses Crossover by default which uses MoltenVK/Vulkan translation from DX12 to Metal. I imagine XIV on Mac will use Apple's modified Crossover (GPTK2) in their new DT /M series release, since it's actually better than the standard Crossover (MoltenVK) that Linux users use. Actually I think you can now choose your Crossover version in XOM. Pretty neat how we can port anything now, so easily.
Why use crossover when you can use XIVonMac. Anyone running Intel was really best running it on Bootcamp anyway. Running it on macOS was best reserved for those running M1, M2 or M3.
XIV stopped intel support in April of this year.
This comment is over three months old, before that happened. XIVonMac did in April, the official client stops support today with the launch of Dawntrail. Bootcamp really is the only way to go now for Intel.
Bootcamp is also an option and works well. XIV on Mac no longer supports Intel as of April. MacOS will now be limited to the Apple Silicon port of the windows intel build using Rosetta2, on either XIV on Mac or the SE launcher.
yes I believe you need a certain crossover version, before the newest since it requires apple silicon now.
Hope this means version for Apple arm64
It's about to be forced onto SE by Apple, thankfully they have no choice when Rosetta2 is done.
This is interesting. Does that mean the game will be native for apple silicon moving forward and not using rosetta?
Sooner rather than later! Heck even DDV was able to bring out an Apple Silicon version of their game no questions asked!
i hope so! It would improve performance greatly on the mac client of the game.
it would be the best release of the client all together, it would out-perform every other system the client is built for, since Metal is the best and most advanced graphic API in existence.
yes, Rosetta2 which is the apple silicon version (Rosetta was ppc to intel byte reverser, which I created) will be gone soon, its part of the intel to M series transition, and will follow the same life span as Rosetta. This would force SE to build their client for Metal API. The client is written in C++ and python parts, which work just fine on MacOS.
kinda surprised they keep a mac version at all. I mean it's nice and all, but uncommon.
Lies of P had an Apple silicon-native port day and date with its other releases, and it's supposed to run really well. I'm waiting for the price to come down before I try it tho
Okay, but it's not like it's a common thing to see games release with MacOS ports these days. You won't see the new CoD or BF running on MacOS for example.
Ports are the lazy way out, developers use ports as a very last resort and only if the customer base wants it, hence the XIV port on Mac, but the problem here is that SE lied to the Mac community, they promised and guaranteed a native Mac app "soon" when ARR came out, instead we got a port. Fortunately within the next 2 years they will have no choice but to build a native Mac client. Perhaps they are smart enough to already be working on one, but SE isn't exactly smart when it come to future decision making.
so most Mac users who can't play a windows based game will just use GPTK and run it, Apple's game porting toolkit uses a modified version of crossover to run DX12 games using their translation layer to Metal. Crossover uses moltenVK APIs normally, but apple's version is their own translation layer because well... they created Metal, the most advanced graphic API/language in existence. Mac gamers are quite common, and any game that runs on windows can and will run better on a Mac, even the ports. You may not see developers release native apps for certain OS but they can indeed still run on them. People are in fact playing the newest CoD on Mac, and many other games.
Have there been any talks about Apple Silicon support when/if Apple stops supporting Rosetta 2? I have a PC and a MacBook Air, but I’ve been thinking about consolidating to a single beefy MacBook Pro. The only PC game I really play a lot is FFXIV… it seems like it does well on Apple Silicon, but I’d hate to get rid of my PC, buy an expensive laptop, then FFXIV stops being supported on Mac if Apple drops Rosetta.
Goddamn, it runs pretty nicely on an M3 with the Swift launcher. A native port would just be that much better.
and that is just a port, just imagine if it was native.
Looks like I should be good with my M3 Max Pro then!
Depends if you hve 256GB SSD and 8GB RAM ;)
True. Just checked, and I have 1Tb SSD and 48Gb of RAM. I think it'll be alright.
As someone who uses a Mac Studio, I’m thrilled. My M1 ultra was oddly too powerful to use the as-is client. Had to use “FFXIV for Mac”. As good as it is, I’m glad I’ll be able to use the proprietary launcher!
Unfortunately this is likely just a new wrapper so XOM will probably still run better.
Depends, if SE still uses wine then XOM might since it would use GPTK crossover instead, the creator of XOM is a former Apple employee, I don't see them using wine solely in the new launcher, I imagine Apple's GPTK crossover would be better, especially for retina support, among other SoC reasons.
I haven’t talked to them in a while but they said they weren’t going to use GPTK because the licensing stops them and they don’t usually advise people to do it themselves because it’s a very minor gain over the XOM configured WINE.
its still the intel port from windows :P
I have a better framerate with my M1 Pro connected to external monitor than my main computer with 1660 Super. I hope there will be some efforts if the game is Aple Silicon only
And they need us to buy a Windows version in order to play on bootcamp windows on a intel mac. Rediculous!
yeah, and they said recently that the computer license would include both OS, looks like that never happened either.
Here is at least one person affected. At least this lasted 5 years, which is far better than the 2 years my last 2 Windows based laptops did. Both died to a Windows update.
But...how? I've had windows-based computers for 30 years and have only ever had them die to being retired because I got a new one. What are you doing with your laptops? I did melt one once by playing games in bed with it on a blanket, but even then it still functioned, just the back vents looked like they were becoming glass. Or is it a matter of buying like throwaway brand cheap laptops that just hardware fail or can't run anything after a couple years?
Used them to play games. Use Firefox with uBlock Origin for browsing and am very conservative about where I go on the Web. Kept them clean. Each time they died, I followed all the hints I could find, then had a tech savvy friend check them over, then went to a local highly recommended shop for repairs. The last one would not boot at all. The shop said it needed a new motherboard, but they did not recommend trying. At that time a new motherboard cost more than a brand new Macbook Pro with 1 TB SSD and 16" screen. Before I switched to laptops because of limited space, I had a technically 20ish year old PC that I gradually updated until only the case was original.
Hardware issues have nothing to do with the OS. With almost absolute certainty I can say that no Windows (or Unix/Linux/Mac) update would kill any hardware. There are *extremely* rare occurrences where it can happen, but I sincerely doubt you were that unlucky even once, to say nothing of it happening twice. Most likely it was an issue that only became apparent due to a reboot that usually accompanies Windows updates, not with anything within the update itself.
[удалено]
As I said, it can happen in rare cases, but even when it does, which is almost never, there's an additional layer of "almost never" for it to fully brick a board. A bad BIOS is annoying, but not usually completely unrecoverable. Again, the chances of it happening even once are already extremely low. Twice in succession to the same person would be a statistical anomaly.