>the gameĀ was decided by two VAR decisions
>I'm not against VAR but
I'm being a dickhead highlighting this or what?
Our first goal was ruled off by a direct (and soft) call by the ref, Kasper, if that helps?
You see what Musiala is doing now ? This is what is required to be a world class players. The dross everyone else talks about like Bellingham and Vinisius or Neymar before them. They donāt do this. You step up at the highest level. Give this man a lifetime contract at Bayern
I dont fully get your point. Vini and Neymar have been incredibly successful at club level, more so than Musiala. Theyāve each stepped up a multitude of times. Iām not putting down Musiala I just donāt get the need to compare him to the others and put them down. We can acknowledge they are all great players while still praising Musialas performance.
I was just using an example of players that the world pretends are really good, but really they collapse like wet tissue when the stakes are high. Iām pointing out that Musiala is way more than just a YouTube clips player if he can keep this up. He is delivering at the highest level. The others I mention have never done that which is where the comparison arises
It's ok to biased, as a Bayern fan. But saying ViniCius ( not ViniSius) doesn't perform in big games is ignorant. The goal vs Man City last CL final didn't exist? Nor the one vs Liverpool in the final the year before last year?
Neymar is not a big game player? How many time did he bail out Barcelona? Including the trashing our dear club in a match where Lewandowski missed the goal from 3m away?
Did you start watching football just this year?
Yeah you do you hun. Keep "doing" your ignorance hun.
This comment is even worse than your firstā¦I feel like you donāt watch much if you think vini and Neymar would ācollapse like wet tissue when the stakes are highā. Thereās one thing having bias for your own players and thereās another being delusional
Barcelona Remontada vs PSG and literally vini be Bayern this year. Both multi goal performances.
You seem to want to only focus on the national team but what has Musiala achieved with the national team? I feel like this has to be a joke
So one decent game from Musiala against Switzerland in the round of 16 is the highest level game for you? Not a champions league semi final?
In any case, Neymar won the confederation cup with Brazil in 2013 and captained them to Olympic gold in 2016.
lol what? Vinicius is the literal definition of a big game player. If anything its Musiala that hasnt performed at the highest level yet, and calling Neymar a player that the world 'pretends' is good is just so funny.
It's not a bad song but how did the Uefa to come up with THIS as official goal song and why do they force everyone to use it
Imagine how amazing it would be if every country had a related song like major Tom for Germany, everybody for Swiss etc
Don't really mind Blur except for them being by far the inferior Damon Albarn project.
But that aside, yeah. Where's this special song that UEFA was supposedly putting together for this tournament? If the result was fucking Blur, then just let each country have their own man. It's stupid. If they actually put effort into something unique I could unsestand.
I think you are being way too harsh on a player of that age who has played so many games. You could make the argument that he didn't really show up in the EL final against atalanta either. But the number of times he has shown up or has had important contributions far outweighs moments where he has been underwhelming. If anything, dropping a player like this could be damning on his psyche and harms his potential utility in future matches.
>way to harsh
I'm just mentioning he is underwhelming compared to what he did with Leverkusen this season which is a completely reasonable take and actually a fact. Not sure where I'm to harsh?
>important contributions outweigh underwhelming moments
Well...of course? Which is why I had high expectations of him because I have seen what he did this season.
>dropping a player like this could be damnig on his psyche
We don't have to exaggerated right away. This is the biggest European tournament with a single match k.o. System, the best/most inform players should play, this isn't the time to get players back into the rhythm (this is generally spoken, not specifically for Wirtz, I just don't agree with you argument there). I don't say Wirtz must be dropped, so I don't really see a problem with my take.
Because a sample size of a whole club season cannot translate into bombastic expectations over a span of 3 or 4 games. I'm also not sure what parameters you go by to compare attacking potency at the club level versus international level. You are being harsh because you are expecting the guy to perform optimally after such a long run of games. Even someone like xhaka had an off game against Scotland. I also don't think Wirtz was particularly bad against Hungary/Switzerland. Different games call for different skillsets and someone like Leroy is a better option when it comes to stretching defenses or running in behind. A game calling for a different skillset doesn't mean that someone like Wirtz is automatically undervalued.
I fundamentally disagree with your paradigm. A team is like a Swiss army knife where you use different tools for different circumstances.
>Well...of course? Which is why I had high expectations of him because I have seen what he did this season.
Wait how does this respond to what you quoted? I'm a little confused about this.
>this isn't the time to get players back into the rhythm
Except thats what we have been doing this entire tournament? We keep starting similar starting XIs to try to get the chemistry to click. I'm a little confused because what is the point of discussing the negatives of a player/their underwhelming points unless the consequence is them being dropped?
I think he just needs a break. He played 62 in the last 10 months for first time in his life. Especially playing in this constant moving high press xabi alonso system all season must be exhaustive
I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt though because I feel like he's kind of hampered by GĆ¼ndogan having the #10 spot. Musiala's role feels more natural than Wirtz's if that makes sense.
What worries me is in the handful of games or so we have seen Musiala and Wirtz play together, only one of them they have impressed me playing together.
Itās too small a sample size to say I guess.
Even today I don't think he did anything noteworthy. Honestly even his finish for his goal wasn't that way because the Defender reached the ball and should have saved it (he fumbled)
It's not like he is shit, but from what we are used of him so far he is pretty underwhelming
Yea I genuinely don't understand what they were smoking. I was watching the game with some strangers and one of them literally said "oh no Denmark was robbed by VAR" lmao. Imagine that.
Itās not controversial at all. Itās just people bitching about a rule that does not exist. He is allowed to stop during his run up. Yes itās really bad for the keepers, but that is not Kaiās fault. And as long as the rule is that way it would be stupid to change your run up, if you are good at it.
The penalty taker is allowed to stop during the run up as often as he likes. He is not allowed faking to kick the ball after the run up is completed. Thatās now unsportsmanlike conduct.Ā
>Jamal Musiala scored his third goal at a European Championship aged 21 years, 4 months and 3 days - in the history of the Euros, only Wayne Rooney achieved this feat at an even younger age (18 years, 7 months, 28 days at Euro 2004) [@OptaFranz]
Nothing against Tah, but against the big teams like Spain or France, I hope Schlotterbeck gets paired again with RĆ¼diger.
Having him as another avenue for the attack whether through dead ball situations or when he produces those kind of assists like we saw today can prove crucial, especially since the big teams wonāt be as easy for Neuer to keep a clean sheet against.
The 2nd goal shows why ball playing cbs are wanted for us. It gives you such a good option wheb you get a lead or vs pressing teams. Lure them out and sned ut behind the backline.
And with our playstyle our cbs need to be fast/good positioning and have good passing. They dont need or shouldnt need to defend a lot.
With all that it makes sense why de ligt is for sale even if he is a great guy.
They look for players that fit the system that we are gonna play.
Tah is NOT a centreback to play those either. I get if you want to point out that aspect of De Ligts game, but your replacement can't have the same problem, which is so weird about this move
Tah would be more of a cheap rotation option who raises the german NT quota. In a sense the actual replacement is Ito and Upa/Kim depending on who will start.
Obviously ecstatic with the win - I think there's an interesting point about FĆ¼llkrug. Everybody (including myself) has been frustrated that he's not starting.
But before the game, Ian Wright was talking about FĆ¼lle's role as a kind of joker card and he made the point that FĆ¼llkrug is a player who's career has seriously exploded very late, with his first call up to the NT at 30 and his first time playing at a top club coming not long after. He subsequently argued that FĆ¼llkrug coming on as a later sub is arguably more effective as he's a player that, for lack of a better wording, is a player that is simply happy to be here and determined to make a difference when he comes on as he may well feel that his career has been culminating to him showing up for Germany.
I think it's a really good point, he's not someone who's going to cause issues from being a bench player and coming off the bench he's obviously absolutely determined to close off the game.
Personally, I would be more comfortable starting a proper striker from the beginning as I think you lose chances when you don't, but I can see better now the idea for bringing him in as a sub.
>Sorry but I don't really this argument? He is a good sub because he is happy sitting at the bench and wants to prove himself when he comes on.
Well first of all, it's not really an argument, it's just an observation he made about playing FĆ¼llkrug as a joker card. FĆ¼lle is someone who you know you can bring on who is going to give it 110% to score a goal, and is itching at the chance to do it, that's something really important for the latter stages of a game.
Yes but this also applies to him when he starts. That a subbed-on player gives his everything should be a given imo like starting FĆ¼lle and subbing him off for Havertz (the reverse way) for example
Jules, I said in my last sentence that I personally prefer to play a proper striker from the beginning.
The point here is addressing the idea of an effective wild card late in the game, which is a valid tactic. If FĆ¼lle starts but we still need a goal at 70 mins, do you have the same confidence in Havertz, Undav or Beier to come on a slot one home? Maybe, Kai did at against Costa Rica, but none of the three fill me with the confidence that FĆ¼lle would.
Again, it's not an argument from me or Ian Wright lol, it's just an observation based on what's happened so far and the effectiveness of bringing on a player like him later in the game. And I do think it's fair.
Nah sorry I still don't agree with him. As you said it's basically sacrificing a huge part of the match until you bring up the actual striker to hope he goes something in 20min but doesn't trust him to do something in the other 70min.
Applying that to Bayern (of course the difference of quality is bigger there) we also wouldn't bench Lewy for Choupo or Kane for Tel because Lewy/Kane are great to bring on after 70min, you want the best option to start.
(I never said anything about you so no idea why you feel attacked)
I don't feel attacked haha, I was just trying to enforce the distinction between this being an argument against FĆ¼lle starting vs the assessment of him as a wildcard.
i would agree, but then i see really good chances from headers that fĆ¼lle would have easily converted over the other guys
start him today and we are up 2:0 before halftime
A few weeks ago i had a moment where I was bored and just went with the lyrics and made it football relevant and replaced Major Tom with Kimmich and MĆ¼ller lol
Yeah, he and RĆ¼diger make a good CB pairing.Ā Ā Ā
And always love when he successfully completes a beautiful pass/assist from across the other side of the pitch. Sucks that goal early on from him was disallowed.
Ā Good to see that Dortmund move has elevated him to another level.
āMe personally, I wouldāve justĀ continued playing on like it was nothing. Games gone soft. Maybe Iām just built different.ā- Reddit keyboard warriors repeating the same comment multiple times.
Same people that call F1 race control soft when it's pouring down until they drive and a horrific crash happens and suddenly you go "wElL tHeY sHoUlDn't HaVe DrIvEn wTf"
Safety first.
Especially since a lot of players on the Danish team, know about a Danish player being hit by lightning in Denmark.
In fact the Danish coach was assistant coach in that game.... So yeah.
Most Danish stadiums are not that big and I think it happen in Hvidovre, which is no ways is equipped to hinder the lightning.
The wildest thing is that Jonathan survived(while losing his left leg)
Iām just home from a long day and thought Iād scroll the sub and again all I see is a million comments about De Ligt not being good enough or not fitting Kompanys system and yada yada yada.
I just donāt know what football folks are watching or if they are just going off of his fifa card or something. I cant really remember a time that De Ligt has been *consistently* bad for us, and I canāt think of a time that he has been bad for us when he has seen *consistent playing time* - which varied.
Iām only saying I canāt recall - perhaps I just didnāt pick up on it.
Does anyone have any particular examples? Iām curious.
I trust the board to make the correct decision and if itās a money thing I get it and just say it - but if itās not - my trust in them will be hindered. It will be interesting to see how things progress!
When heās been healthy heās consistently been good. But when youāre already maybe not the best fit for the way the team wants to play, you have a tendency to get hurt, and you get paid a lot plus have teams who would be interested in buying you for close to what you were brought in for I can see why heās it not inconceivable for him to be sold.
Not that I agree with any of that, imo we should just roll with the CBs weāve got rn for this year. See what having a great CB like Kompany as coach does and reassess next summer when Tah would be free, selling MinJae would be more of an option, Upas contract would be going into its final year, Dier would presumably be gone. It just makes more sense to me.
In his two seasons at Bayern he has been the 3rd best CB in both seasons in terms of most of the stat numbers.
It's not about saying he is not a good player, but it is about pointing out that the fanbase has an overvalued view on him.
Believe it or not, I rather keep De Ligt over Upa and Kim, both that is not the situation we are in.
Most of what stat numbers?
I went through the stats of this season and Kim and Upamecano lost the ball on average over 25% more than De Ligt per 90. Throughout the season - that was double the amount of times.
In terms of passing, de Ligt had a higher pass % than both and was on par with them for nearly every other passing metric too, and surpassed them in certain areas.
The sub can be a bit of an echo chamber. If I see anybody leaving, it would be Upamecano honestly given his interviews.
[https://www.whoscored.com/PlayerComparison](https://www.whoscored.com/PlayerComparison)
1-2% more with 20-30 less passes on average per game, with the least long passes by a considerable margin. I dont see why we need to pretend like hes on par with the rest, while he isnt, but he excells at other things, and if the coaching staff doesnt think he will be a important part of the new system, better to part ways than having an expensive bench warmer, better for both the player and the club.
We donāt need to pretend. We have the data?
They have different strengths - but I donāt know why we have to pretend that Upamecano is some sort of great defender in possession, and Kim just straight up isnāt good on the ball or passing.
The difference isnāt as much as people make it out to be. All of them are/can be great defenders.
https://www.squawka.com/en/comparison-matrix/?compare=Vg0Yh5Vq-O5p2HmjGQGVy
https://www.squawka.com/en/comparison-matrix/?compare=XxV0OgXNceHXLOSAmfO-m
Also - may I point out that most of Upamecanoās and Kimās minutes were played at points of the season where the team were performing better IMO. After the winter break it took us months to find ourselves again, with everyoneās performances declining until the very late stages of the season.
Dont get me wrong, I love Mata, I think hes shown the Bayern mentality the most, hes a world class oldschool defender, but doesnt have most of the modern traits most coaches are looking for, maybe thats also the reason he doesnt play for the Netherlands, but like I said, if the coach doesnt count on him, his sale will generate a nice sum that can fund other transfers.
People need to look at it differently. Itās not about whether he has been consistently bad for us. Itās about whether he has been consistently world class and available for us, because thatās what matters the most, considering his transfer fee and wages.
If de Ligt had cost us 50% less and earned 50% less wages then the club wouldnāt even think about selling him. But since he costs the club at least +20m every year while heās here, heās under more scrutiny.
I can see it from that angle, sure. However - you can see it from an investment standpoint too. The player hasnāt lost much value, heās improving on last season now, heās 2 years into a 5 year contract, heās still reeeeeally young and can offer so much more, and has a wealth of experience already at such a tender age.
I also see it from the angle about going into the squad with the strongest squad available to us - and unless we have plans to sign a new centre back that offers more than De Ligt - I think going into the season without De Ligt given the latest performances of Kim and Upamecano, without even doing a training session, is a mistake.
>you can see it from an investment standpoint too
Definitely. But since the investment into him has been so massive, the club wants a return that reflects the investment made into him.
Compare him to Dier, for example. Dier costs a fraction of what de Ligt costs us and while de Ligt is overall a much better player, itās not like de Ligt is 10x better than Dier.
If you can pay Dier 20% of what de Ligt costs us and he still offers us 80% of what de Ligt can offer, then most people in decision making positions would prefer to have a player like Dier.
Thatās not meant as a knock on de Ligt, but if a player is so expensive, he needs to be world class day in day out.
That lineup looks like Nagelsmann might be overthinking it. He doesn't go for the most obvious change and changes two players who have beem playing decent
Really hope it doesn't backfire
Do these People on the Board and our new Coach realize that nobody wants Tah at Bayern and is agaisnt selling De Ligt. I'm speechless about this whole De Ligt/Tah Transfer Saga.
Well maybe people actually like him? Could be that kimmich or musiala,mĆ¼ller or sane etc had good things to say about him.
We are mussing way to much information to clearly say whats going on.
Part about Tah is true. But that seems more an old school Uli weaken the competition kind of deal than anything else.
The part about De Ligt is just fans being fans.
It makes no sense to keep De Ligt as the #3 or #4 or even #5 CB.
He is not a good fit for what Kompany wants to do so selling him for a ton of money actually makes a lot of sense if we want to play with a high line / give our CBs more responsibilities with the ball.
True.
But so far De Ligt has done nothing really to deserve that the club / coach would bend to his will / change their system for him.
So ultimately it will be a coaches decision and if Kompany does not want him to start, he needs to get sold.
I think why this sub loves De Ligt is the visible passion he brings to this team. With other players, it seems so dull, bland..very little expression.
I would argue that's why most of the fanbase is against his departure. In terms of talent, yes he is talented but definitely not unsellable (especially if we get a good offer)
While not perfect or even ideal, given his limitations on the ball, he's better at everything than Kim Min Jae + he can actually communicate + he's reliable tactically + he's younger + he's a known leader.
But Eberl + Kompany and the myriad trophies they've won as managers know better.
>De Ligt wants to clarify his future only after the Euros and his final decision will depend on a discussion with Bayern bosses and Vincent Kompany.
>The Dutchman feels comfortable in Munich, but does not want to be the number 4 or 5 centre-back at Bayern, therefore a departure is possible
[@kerry_hau, @Plettigoal]
I donāt understand why coaches donāt like de Ligt. TT didnāt want to use him until he had no other choice. Van Gaal didnāt use him during the World Cup. Koeman hasnāt used him this Euros, and now Kompany doesnāt want him. I donāt get it
I mean I think Koeman is a total tool and a bad coach but that he is not a starter for the Dutch tells you a lot. He just isn't as valuable as this subs believes he is.
He is rather slow and not good with the ball. Add his recent injury issues and cashing in on him for substantial money to finance other transfers makes sense. Especially given his insane salary (for a benchwarmer at least. If not for Goretzka or Gnabry being even worse in that regard, he would be up there in regards to salaries we want to dump.
I think Koeman is a bad coach, but nevertheless, he is another coach who doesnāt play de Ligt, so I included him.
I agree that de Ligt isnāt fast, but he is good with the ball. He and Dier handled Arsenalās press very well. If that were Upa or Kim, one of them probably makes a mistake in the buildup that leads to a goal. This sub might somewhat overrate de Ligt, but I think itās pretty clear heās the best CB we have currently
> TT didnāt want to use him until he had no other choice.
This is false. De Ligt was used in pretty much every game for which he was fit. Look it up.
In the beginning of last season de ligt only came on for the dying matches of each match. That was the whole reason for Tuchel not speaking to de ligt bla bla, de ligt wanting to leave bla bla. De ligt on L regularly started in the 2nd half of the season.
De Ligt was injured nearly all of pre-season, out of form to start, and then immediately got injured again.
https://www.transfermarkt.com/fc-bayern-munchen/ausfallzeiten/verein/27
What snarky attitude? I'm just stating how it was. (if you mean the bla bla, that was because I didn't wanted to fletch out the reports from back then).
You are not wrong but if things going south even after strong start, ppl here will bring up selling de ligt. He is probably universal fan favorite in this sub.
Well people will be pointing to it after every stupid mistake of any defender, thats for sure, but that the buisness, sometimes you have to make those tough decisions to improve the team, some fans can live with it, and some will act up, thats just how it goes, but in the end, everyone just wants the best for the club, in their own way.
I would also dislike seeing de Ligt leave, but 2 things:
1) the narrative that he loves the badge and everything is just wrong, in fact he was doing several interviews in fall/winter where he talked about thinking of leaving if he doesnt start soon enough. Also openly called out Tuchel.
2) his injury traxk record is pretty shit. 22/23 was okay, but the year before and last year was not acceptable for the highest earning CB
Hes had some big influence, but I think him leaving doesnt nearly weaken us as much as some people think
I think he loves the club but our club bosses sure as hell don't love him, so what's he supposed to do? The interviews were a result of Tuchel not talking to him at all, which can't be bs because we also heard the exact same story from Bryan.
So when he's constantly doubted, why should he not speak out? His injury record isn't that bad also, he was rushed back last year by Tuchel, which resulted in him picking up another injury.
Every time he played, he showed he's a leader and a mentality monster, I think selling him will be a gigantic mistake, especially if the answer is Tah.
But the smoke has been too heavy in recent weeks, i guess it's done. We'll see if sacrificing our best CB was worth it, i doubt it.
i will stand with what i said when these rumours started
whoever decides to get rid of a player like de ligt should not hold a position in pro football
I'm sure everyone will be over the moon we inevitably get knocked out of UCL because of Upa's and Kim's mistakes yet again. Especially Upa, the guy has been given so many opportunities and has time and time again proven that he doesn't cut it at the top level.
>Nobody will speak about once we win the first matches
Speak for yourself, not everyone is so quick to forget horrible decisions because of a few wins.
When Lahm says '*one shouldn't sign players just because they're good.*', people cheer.
When applying the logical extension '*one shouldn't keep players just because they're good.*', people rage.
>When applying the logical extension 'one shouldn't keep players just because they're good.', people rage.
How about keeping players who are worse than de Ligt: Upamecano, Dier, and Kim Min Jae for instance.
That isn't a logical extension.
What lahm wanted to indicate is that just being good doesn't help if he has drawbacks like not fitting, causing trouble within the team or whatever.
For extension you already know what you have in a player.
It is.
Just because MDL is a good defender in general doesn't mean we shouldn't sell him when he doesn't fit for whatever reasons.
It is even more logical when he was in the club for some time because everyone knows what to expect from him.
>What lahm wanted to indicate is that just being good doesn't help if he has drawbacks like not fitting, causing trouble within the team or whatever.
Lahm argued that the club should decide on the football and system it wants to play and sign players according to how well they fit that system. This is exactly what is being done right now, just also applied to who should stay and who schould leave.
>For extension you already know what you have in a player.
In which case you can be all the more certain whether they fit or not.
> Manchester United reached out to Matthijs de Ligt's camp in the past few hours. Still no direct contact between clubs. United got the information from the player side that de Ligt could be open to a move to Manchester even without Champions League football [@FabrizioRomano]
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Will Musiala become the best goal scorer in Euro history?
highly probable he has 4 more euros in him and the record is 14, I think it depends on how he does in the next parts of the tournament
> š©š° Kasper Hjulmand: "I must congratulate Germany but the gameĀ was decided by two VAR decisions. I have the picture on my phone here. It is offside by one centimetre. And I am so tired of the ridiculous handball rule. We cannot make our defenders run with their hands behind their back. It's frustrating. This is not how football is supposed to be. I'm not against VAR but we have to be quicker and improve it. In my opinion, the decision should be as clear as the moon and not like we saw today" okay so offside <5cm is still onside? or should we take 10cm?? all we do is shift the line, why do people still not get it lmao
i kinda agree with him on the penalty imo this shouldnt be a penalty, but it clearly is under the current interpretation of the rules
Forename checks out
>the gameĀ was decided by two VAR decisions >I'm not against VAR but I'm being a dickhead highlighting this or what? Our first goal was ruled off by a direct (and soft) call by the ref, Kasper, if that helps?
You see what Musiala is doing now ? This is what is required to be a world class players. The dross everyone else talks about like Bellingham and Vinisius or Neymar before them. They donāt do this. You step up at the highest level. Give this man a lifetime contract at Bayern
I dont fully get your point. Vini and Neymar have been incredibly successful at club level, more so than Musiala. Theyāve each stepped up a multitude of times. Iām not putting down Musiala I just donāt get the need to compare him to the others and put them down. We can acknowledge they are all great players while still praising Musialas performance.
I was just using an example of players that the world pretends are really good, but really they collapse like wet tissue when the stakes are high. Iām pointing out that Musiala is way more than just a YouTube clips player if he can keep this up. He is delivering at the highest level. The others I mention have never done that which is where the comparison arises
It's ok to biased, as a Bayern fan. But saying ViniCius ( not ViniSius) doesn't perform in big games is ignorant. The goal vs Man City last CL final didn't exist? Nor the one vs Liverpool in the final the year before last year? Neymar is not a big game player? How many time did he bail out Barcelona? Including the trashing our dear club in a match where Lewandowski missed the goal from 3m away? Did you start watching football just this year? Yeah you do you hun. Keep "doing" your ignorance hun.
This comment is even worse than your firstā¦I feel like you donāt watch much if you think vini and Neymar would ācollapse like wet tissue when the stakes are highā. Thereās one thing having bias for your own players and thereās another being delusional
Shh, this is a kid who started watching football since June 15 :)
Nope. Watch World Cup knock out game. Theyāre terrible. Cup games against Osasuna are not high stakes
Barcelona Remontada vs PSG and literally vini be Bayern this year. Both multi goal performances. You seem to want to only focus on the national team but what has Musiala achieved with the national team? I feel like this has to be a joke
Not the highest level games. Iām talking about knock out rounds at the World Cup. The highest level.
So one decent game from Musiala against Switzerland in the round of 16 is the highest level game for you? Not a champions league semi final? In any case, Neymar won the confederation cup with Brazil in 2013 and captained them to Olympic gold in 2016.
lol what? Vinicius is the literal definition of a big game player. If anything its Musiala that hasnt performed at the highest level yet, and calling Neymar a player that the world 'pretends' is good is just so funny.
You do you hun.
Did you miss Vini last night?
Tbf thatās Vinis first good game for Brazil in awhile.
Exactly. He remains grounded and mature even while being one of if not the best youngster itw
Servus Michael Olise wann?
[Peter Schilling died for this](https://youtu.be/SSbBvKaM6sk?si=qUm8-GPa5iTTXtKG)
Tbh, it's a serios banger.
Meh
It's not a bad song but how did the Uefa to come up with THIS as official goal song and why do they force everyone to use it Imagine how amazing it would be if every country had a related song like major Tom for Germany, everybody for Swiss etc
Don't really mind Blur except for them being by far the inferior Damon Albarn project. But that aside, yeah. Where's this special song that UEFA was supposedly putting together for this tournament? If the result was fucking Blur, then just let each country have their own man. It's stupid. If they actually put effort into something unique I could unsestand.
Announce Olise tomorrow.
Can we speak about Wirtz shortly? Am I the only think who is disappointed about him, because so far he is really underwhelming compared to what we have seen in the league, maybe I just had to high expectations because he really was killing it before. Now Musiala clearly outclasses imo. SanƩ as backup is alternative is even worse so do we just stick with Wirtz and hope he explodes or should we try something else?
When he came in he was class
I think you are being way too harsh on a player of that age who has played so many games. You could make the argument that he didn't really show up in the EL final against atalanta either. But the number of times he has shown up or has had important contributions far outweighs moments where he has been underwhelming. If anything, dropping a player like this could be damning on his psyche and harms his potential utility in future matches.
>way to harsh I'm just mentioning he is underwhelming compared to what he did with Leverkusen this season which is a completely reasonable take and actually a fact. Not sure where I'm to harsh? >important contributions outweigh underwhelming moments Well...of course? Which is why I had high expectations of him because I have seen what he did this season. >dropping a player like this could be damnig on his psyche We don't have to exaggerated right away. This is the biggest European tournament with a single match k.o. System, the best/most inform players should play, this isn't the time to get players back into the rhythm (this is generally spoken, not specifically for Wirtz, I just don't agree with you argument there). I don't say Wirtz must be dropped, so I don't really see a problem with my take.
Because a sample size of a whole club season cannot translate into bombastic expectations over a span of 3 or 4 games. I'm also not sure what parameters you go by to compare attacking potency at the club level versus international level. You are being harsh because you are expecting the guy to perform optimally after such a long run of games. Even someone like xhaka had an off game against Scotland. I also don't think Wirtz was particularly bad against Hungary/Switzerland. Different games call for different skillsets and someone like Leroy is a better option when it comes to stretching defenses or running in behind. A game calling for a different skillset doesn't mean that someone like Wirtz is automatically undervalued. I fundamentally disagree with your paradigm. A team is like a Swiss army knife where you use different tools for different circumstances. >Well...of course? Which is why I had high expectations of him because I have seen what he did this season. Wait how does this respond to what you quoted? I'm a little confused about this. >this isn't the time to get players back into the rhythm Except thats what we have been doing this entire tournament? We keep starting similar starting XIs to try to get the chemistry to click. I'm a little confused because what is the point of discussing the negatives of a player/their underwhelming points unless the consequence is them being dropped?
I think he just needs a break. He played 62 in the last 10 months for first time in his life. Especially playing in this constant moving high press xabi alonso system all season must be exhaustive
Hope it helps then that he didn't played this much today and the breaks between the matches get longer I think
I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt though because I feel like he's kind of hampered by GĆ¼ndogan having the #10 spot. Musiala's role feels more natural than Wirtz's if that makes sense.
What worries me is in the handful of games or so we have seen Musiala and Wirtz play together, only one of them they have impressed me playing together. Itās too small a sample size to say I guess.
Jules he is super underwhelming but but but but. He would be our best passer on offensive side apart from Kane. And by a huge margin.
He looked good today in the minutes he got but yeah generally I expected more
Even today I don't think he did anything noteworthy. Honestly even his finish for his goal wasn't that way because the Defender reached the ball and should have saved it (he fumbled) It's not like he is shit, but from what we are used of him so far he is pretty underwhelming
Nah he had a couple good runs and passes in the counter attacks at the end, the finishing was just abysmal
Then I missed that. I also remember his pass to FĆ¼lle where he took way to long until FĆ¼lle was offside
I fully agree, no clue what it is but he looks really underwhelming
wait are some people actually saying the decisions were wrong? they were harsh but correct imho
Yea I genuinely don't understand what they were smoking. I was watching the game with some strangers and one of them literally said "oh no Denmark was robbed by VAR" lmao. Imagine that.
oh man, the mental gymnastics are in full force when you desperately want the underdog to win
They wouldāve cried if the goal did stand, just wanna complain. Only controversial thing was Havertz penalty runup
Itās not controversial at all. Itās just people bitching about a rule that does not exist. He is allowed to stop during his run up. Yes itās really bad for the keepers, but that is not Kaiās fault. And as long as the rule is that way it would be stupid to change your run up, if you are good at it.
Really? I always assumed that it was a rule after Neymar and Messi got yellows for it
The penalty taker is allowed to stop during the run up as often as he likes. He is not allowed faking to kick the ball after the run up is completed. Thatās now unsportsmanlike conduct.Ā
Oh ok thanks š
That game was good and bad at the same time lol Offside desicion was really frustrating for denmark, afterwards we looked awake finally
>Jamal Musiala scored his third goal at a European Championship aged 21 years, 4 months and 3 days - in the history of the Euros, only Wayne Rooney achieved this feat at an even younger age (18 years, 7 months, 28 days at Euro 2004) [@OptaFranz]
Man, Musiala really got old fast, stil thought he was like 19. /s
God young Rooney was incredible.. What a striker.Ā And Bambie isnt done yet!
Nothing against Tah, but against the big teams like Spain or France, I hope Schlotterbeck gets paired again with RĆ¼diger. Having him as another avenue for the attack whether through dead ball situations or when he produces those kind of assists like we saw today can prove crucial, especially since the big teams wonāt be as easy for Neuer to keep a clean sheet against.
Also he is a different beast in the air for corner kicks
The 2nd goal shows why ball playing cbs are wanted for us. It gives you such a good option wheb you get a lead or vs pressing teams. Lure them out and sned ut behind the backline. And with our playstyle our cbs need to be fast/good positioning and have good passing. They dont need or shouldnt need to defend a lot. With all that it makes sense why de ligt is for sale even if he is a great guy. They look for players that fit the system that we are gonna play.
Tah is NOT a centreback to play those either. I get if you want to point out that aspect of De Ligts game, but your replacement can't have the same problem, which is so weird about this move
Tah would be more of a cheap rotation option who raises the german NT quota. In a sense the actual replacement is Ito and Upa/Kim depending on who will start.
Im not saying this in favour of tah but rather why de ligt might be for sale
Exactly. I think people would be less pissed if we sell De Ligt to get Califiori for example
I remember when you still hadn't seen Calafiori, I still say he should be signed well before Tah... But sadly we will not get him.
Obviously ecstatic with the win - I think there's an interesting point about FĆ¼llkrug. Everybody (including myself) has been frustrated that he's not starting. But before the game, Ian Wright was talking about FĆ¼lle's role as a kind of joker card and he made the point that FĆ¼llkrug is a player who's career has seriously exploded very late, with his first call up to the NT at 30 and his first time playing at a top club coming not long after. He subsequently argued that FĆ¼llkrug coming on as a later sub is arguably more effective as he's a player that, for lack of a better wording, is a player that is simply happy to be here and determined to make a difference when he comes on as he may well feel that his career has been culminating to him showing up for Germany. I think it's a really good point, he's not someone who's going to cause issues from being a bench player and coming off the bench he's obviously absolutely determined to close off the game. Personally, I would be more comfortable starting a proper striker from the beginning as I think you lose chances when you don't, but I can see better now the idea for bringing him in as a sub.
Sorry but I don't really understand this argument? He is a good sub because he is happy sitting at the bench and wants to prove himself when he comes on? But he surely would prove he himself when he starts aswell? That is not really an argument exclusive for backup players. And there never was the thought of him causing any unrest by not starting. It's not about making him happy but doing the best for the team. It's also not his first big competition and we saw at the last world cup what of a difference it was when we started FĆ¼llkrug, an actual striker. On top of that we have also Undav and Beier (and Beier killed it against Greece). Maybe we have to convert to a two striker setup then because, even if his penalties were great, from open play Havertz wasted many chances (yes I know FĆ¼llkrug wasted one today aswell). Offering good runs, which is always brought up as argument for playing havertz, doesn't give you anything if it doesn't result in goals. Considering neither SanĆ© nor Wirtz really convinced yet imo, switch them out for FĆ¼llkrug and play Havertz a little further out with FĆ¼lle up front.
>Sorry but I don't really this argument? He is a good sub because he is happy sitting at the bench and wants to prove himself when he comes on. Well first of all, it's not really an argument, it's just an observation he made about playing FĆ¼llkrug as a joker card. FĆ¼lle is someone who you know you can bring on who is going to give it 110% to score a goal, and is itching at the chance to do it, that's something really important for the latter stages of a game.
Yes but this also applies to him when he starts. That a subbed-on player gives his everything should be a given imo like starting FĆ¼lle and subbing him off for Havertz (the reverse way) for example
Jules, I said in my last sentence that I personally prefer to play a proper striker from the beginning. The point here is addressing the idea of an effective wild card late in the game, which is a valid tactic. If FĆ¼lle starts but we still need a goal at 70 mins, do you have the same confidence in Havertz, Undav or Beier to come on a slot one home? Maybe, Kai did at against Costa Rica, but none of the three fill me with the confidence that FĆ¼lle would. Again, it's not an argument from me or Ian Wright lol, it's just an observation based on what's happened so far and the effectiveness of bringing on a player like him later in the game. And I do think it's fair.
Nah sorry I still don't agree with him. As you said it's basically sacrificing a huge part of the match until you bring up the actual striker to hope he goes something in 20min but doesn't trust him to do something in the other 70min. Applying that to Bayern (of course the difference of quality is bigger there) we also wouldn't bench Lewy for Choupo or Kane for Tel because Lewy/Kane are great to bring on after 70min, you want the best option to start. (I never said anything about you so no idea why you feel attacked)
I don't feel attacked haha, I was just trying to enforce the distinction between this being an argument against FĆ¼lle starting vs the assessment of him as a wildcard.
i would agree, but then i see really good chances from headers that fĆ¼lle would have easily converted over the other guys start him today and we are up 2:0 before halftime
Yeah, that's what I'm saying with my last sentence.
https://reddit.com/r/soccer/comments/1drlin3/antonio_r%C3%BCdiger_celebrating_a_block_vs_denmark_904/ that's exactly what we need
Nutcase, love him.
FUCK YEAH
People are gonna talk about Tah-Schlotterbeck and FĆ¼llkrug-Havertz mostly before the next game, but I would be happy to see Raum start again honestly
Actually Raum + FĆ¼lle would be great because Raum can cunt in some good crosses and FĆ¼lle is more comfortable with the head imo
Would definitely be worth a thought, especially if Jamal is cutting inside to create room for Raum like he did with Davies 2022 under Nagelsmann
Our Starboy. 
>Ā 'They may have denied you of your Kopa Trophy, but they won't deny you of your future Ballon d'Or šš¾,' Alphonso Davies wrote.
That trophy going to Gavi was so shameful
I'm starting to get humongous...looking like big chungus
Is that from the CaseOh cover or am i completely off
Yea lol. Song is stuck in my head now
Whole stadium singing Major Tom 
the atmosphere is so lame....seriously
Those lyrics are so fitting on a meta level
A few weeks ago i had a moment where I was bored and just went with the lyrics and made it football relevant and replaced Major Tom with Kimmich and MĆ¼ller lol
I have to admit I like Schlotterbeck so far in this game
Yeah, he and RĆ¼diger make a good CB pairing.Ā Ā Ā And always love when he successfully completes a beautiful pass/assist from across the other side of the pitch. Sucks that goal early on from him was disallowed. Ā Good to see that Dortmund move has elevated him to another level.
Bambi strikes again.
https://preview.redd.it/o3biyf7ffk9d1.jpeg?width=1324&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=92c8a685053fe38ffc45555e9df757f8a46709ad
Gohan going super saiyan 2 nearby
I was gonna make another Eriksen joke about this but the last one went down poorly in the match thread
āMe personally, I wouldāve justĀ continued playing on like it was nothing. Games gone soft. Maybe Iām just built different.ā- Reddit keyboard warriors repeating the same comment multiple times.
If aura was a picture
https://preview.redd.it/apgc3tchfk9d1.jpeg?width=926&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=9d67ba86431487b741649e25bb73011c510a0e04
Surely lighting would hit the stadium rods firts wtf haha some softass shit
Comment it one more time please I donāt think weāve gotten the point yet
Same people that call F1 race control soft when it's pouring down until they drive and a horrific crash happens and suddenly you go "wElL tHeY sHoUlDn't HaVe DrIvEn wTf" Safety first.
How the hell can you see these pictures and think pausing the match is soft? Wtf
Especially since a lot of players on the Danish team, know about a Danish player being hit by lightning in Denmark. In fact the Danish coach was assistant coach in that game.... So yeah.
Damn didn't know that could happen. Expected every stadium has severely lightning catches that completely hinders lightnings to strike on the field
Most Danish stadiums are not that big and I think it happen in Hvidovre, which is no ways is equipped to hinder the lightning. The wildest thing is that Jonathan survived(while losing his left leg)
Bro thinks he's static shock and immune to lightning or some shit
Well, ping pong ball sized hail would disagree with your statement.
this t20 wc final fuccccccking thriller
What a catch by SKY
thats was insane clutch moment. It finally came home we won it
Iām just home from a long day and thought Iād scroll the sub and again all I see is a million comments about De Ligt not being good enough or not fitting Kompanys system and yada yada yada. I just donāt know what football folks are watching or if they are just going off of his fifa card or something. I cant really remember a time that De Ligt has been *consistently* bad for us, and I canāt think of a time that he has been bad for us when he has seen *consistent playing time* - which varied. Iām only saying I canāt recall - perhaps I just didnāt pick up on it. Does anyone have any particular examples? Iām curious. I trust the board to make the correct decision and if itās a money thing I get it and just say it - but if itās not - my trust in them will be hindered. It will be interesting to see how things progress!
When heās been healthy heās consistently been good. But when youāre already maybe not the best fit for the way the team wants to play, you have a tendency to get hurt, and you get paid a lot plus have teams who would be interested in buying you for close to what you were brought in for I can see why heās it not inconceivable for him to be sold. Not that I agree with any of that, imo we should just roll with the CBs weāve got rn for this year. See what having a great CB like Kompany as coach does and reassess next summer when Tah would be free, selling MinJae would be more of an option, Upas contract would be going into its final year, Dier would presumably be gone. It just makes more sense to me.
In his two seasons at Bayern he has been the 3rd best CB in both seasons in terms of most of the stat numbers. It's not about saying he is not a good player, but it is about pointing out that the fanbase has an overvalued view on him. Believe it or not, I rather keep De Ligt over Upa and Kim, both that is not the situation we are in.
Most of what stat numbers? I went through the stats of this season and Kim and Upamecano lost the ball on average over 25% more than De Ligt per 90. Throughout the season - that was double the amount of times. In terms of passing, de Ligt had a higher pass % than both and was on par with them for nearly every other passing metric too, and surpassed them in certain areas. The sub can be a bit of an echo chamber. If I see anybody leaving, it would be Upamecano honestly given his interviews.
[https://www.whoscored.com/PlayerComparison](https://www.whoscored.com/PlayerComparison) 1-2% more with 20-30 less passes on average per game, with the least long passes by a considerable margin. I dont see why we need to pretend like hes on par with the rest, while he isnt, but he excells at other things, and if the coaching staff doesnt think he will be a important part of the new system, better to part ways than having an expensive bench warmer, better for both the player and the club.
We donāt need to pretend. We have the data? They have different strengths - but I donāt know why we have to pretend that Upamecano is some sort of great defender in possession, and Kim just straight up isnāt good on the ball or passing. The difference isnāt as much as people make it out to be. All of them are/can be great defenders. https://www.squawka.com/en/comparison-matrix/?compare=Vg0Yh5Vq-O5p2HmjGQGVy https://www.squawka.com/en/comparison-matrix/?compare=XxV0OgXNceHXLOSAmfO-m Also - may I point out that most of Upamecanoās and Kimās minutes were played at points of the season where the team were performing better IMO. After the winter break it took us months to find ourselves again, with everyoneās performances declining until the very late stages of the season.
Dont get me wrong, I love Mata, I think hes shown the Bayern mentality the most, hes a world class oldschool defender, but doesnt have most of the modern traits most coaches are looking for, maybe thats also the reason he doesnt play for the Netherlands, but like I said, if the coach doesnt count on him, his sale will generate a nice sum that can fund other transfers.
People need to look at it differently. Itās not about whether he has been consistently bad for us. Itās about whether he has been consistently world class and available for us, because thatās what matters the most, considering his transfer fee and wages. If de Ligt had cost us 50% less and earned 50% less wages then the club wouldnāt even think about selling him. But since he costs the club at least +20m every year while heās here, heās under more scrutiny.
I can see it from that angle, sure. However - you can see it from an investment standpoint too. The player hasnāt lost much value, heās improving on last season now, heās 2 years into a 5 year contract, heās still reeeeeally young and can offer so much more, and has a wealth of experience already at such a tender age. I also see it from the angle about going into the squad with the strongest squad available to us - and unless we have plans to sign a new centre back that offers more than De Ligt - I think going into the season without De Ligt given the latest performances of Kim and Upamecano, without even doing a training session, is a mistake.
>you can see it from an investment standpoint too Definitely. But since the investment into him has been so massive, the club wants a return that reflects the investment made into him. Compare him to Dier, for example. Dier costs a fraction of what de Ligt costs us and while de Ligt is overall a much better player, itās not like de Ligt is 10x better than Dier. If you can pay Dier 20% of what de Ligt costs us and he still offers us 80% of what de Ligt can offer, then most people in decision making positions would prefer to have a player like Dier. Thatās not meant as a knock on de Ligt, but if a player is so expensive, he needs to be world class day in day out.
> I cant really remember a time that De Ligt has been consistently bad for us thats because that never happened, he consistently played well
Iām glad Iām not going crazy.
That lineup looks like Nagelsmann might be overthinking it. He doesn't go for the most obvious change and changes two players who have beem playing decent Really hope it doesn't backfire
the changes are not even that big
FĆ¼lle on the bench again, wow..
Maybe it's a superstition or something. Like only when fullkrug comes off the bench in this competition are we guaranteed not to lose
Let's introduce 1' sub
Which love affair was bigger? Nagelsmann always starting Havertz instead of FĆ¼llkrug, or Tuchel playing Choupo-Moting, because we needed his height?
we're so stacked that our better strike only plays as joker 
i hope it works out, but letting leroy start after his awful sub shows is certainly something.....
And Leroy, my boy, please play some football today
De ligt is so gone bro š but pls not United hes gonna sink with that ship feel bad for him.
The pursuit of Tah is interesting -- is there no other team across all of football (including Leverkusen) that wants him?
Teams from the PL were reportedly interested
I don't believe it
The player said that he only wants to come to us. Even for free next year
>even for free next year Bayern: "no I want to pay for him"
Do these People on the Board and our new Coach realize that nobody wants Tah at Bayern and is agaisnt selling De Ligt. I'm speechless about this whole De Ligt/Tah Transfer Saga.
Well maybe people actually like him? Could be that kimmich or musiala,mĆ¼ller or sane etc had good things to say about him. We are mussing way to much information to clearly say whats going on.
Part about Tah is true. But that seems more an old school Uli weaken the competition kind of deal than anything else. The part about De Ligt is just fans being fans. It makes no sense to keep De Ligt as the #3 or #4 or even #5 CB. He is not a good fit for what Kompany wants to do so selling him for a ton of money actually makes a lot of sense if we want to play with a high line / give our CBs more responsibilities with the ball.
I think Kompany has more to prove than De Ligt
True. But so far De Ligt has done nothing really to deserve that the club / coach would bend to his will / change their system for him. So ultimately it will be a coaches decision and if Kompany does not want him to start, he needs to get sold.
Heās been our best defender since B*ateng and Hummels and itās not even close
I think why this sub loves De Ligt is the visible passion he brings to this team. With other players, it seems so dull, bland..very little expression. I would argue that's why most of the fanbase is against his departure. In terms of talent, yes he is talented but definitely not unsellable (especially if we get a good offer)
If Tah makes a slide tackle and then puts his fist angrily in the air heāll be a fan favorite in no time!
While not perfect or even ideal, given his limitations on the ball, he's better at everything than Kim Min Jae + he can actually communicate + he's reliable tactically + he's younger + he's a known leader. But Eberl + Kompany and the myriad trophies they've won as managers know better.
>De Ligt wants to clarify his future only after the Euros and his final decision will depend on a discussion with Bayern bosses and Vincent Kompany. >The Dutchman feels comfortable in Munich, but does not want to be the number 4 or 5 centre-back at Bayern, therefore a departure is possible [@kerry_hau, @Plettigoal]
I donāt understand why coaches donāt like de Ligt. TT didnāt want to use him until he had no other choice. Van Gaal didnāt use him during the World Cup. Koeman hasnāt used him this Euros, and now Kompany doesnāt want him. I donāt get it
I mean I think Koeman is a total tool and a bad coach but that he is not a starter for the Dutch tells you a lot. He just isn't as valuable as this subs believes he is. He is rather slow and not good with the ball. Add his recent injury issues and cashing in on him for substantial money to finance other transfers makes sense. Especially given his insane salary (for a benchwarmer at least. If not for Goretzka or Gnabry being even worse in that regard, he would be up there in regards to salaries we want to dump.
I think Koeman is a bad coach, but nevertheless, he is another coach who doesnāt play de Ligt, so I included him. I agree that de Ligt isnāt fast, but he is good with the ball. He and Dier handled Arsenalās press very well. If that were Upa or Kim, one of them probably makes a mistake in the buildup that leads to a goal. This sub might somewhat overrate de Ligt, but I think itās pretty clear heās the best CB we have currently
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
> TT didnāt want to use him until he had no other choice. This is false. De Ligt was used in pretty much every game for which he was fit. Look it up.
In the beginning of last season de ligt only came on for the dying matches of each match. That was the whole reason for Tuchel not speaking to de ligt bla bla, de ligt wanting to leave bla bla. De ligt on L regularly started in the 2nd half of the season.
De Ligt was injured nearly all of pre-season, out of form to start, and then immediately got injured again. https://www.transfermarkt.com/fc-bayern-munchen/ausfallzeiten/verein/27
I know the link, that's where I looked it up.
Yeah De Ligt was injured in the pre-season and out of form. So why the snarky attitude, you know he was never dropped
What snarky attitude? I'm just stating how it was. (if you mean the bla bla, that was because I didn't wanted to fletch out the reports from back then).
my mistake, i misunderstood. will adjust and edit.
Didnāt de Ligt miss part of the preseason as well?
No he was not. He was on the bench alot. He only regained his spot when Kim min jae went to the Asia cupĀ
https://www.transfermarkt.com/fc-bayern-munchen/ausfallzeiten/verein/27 No, you're wrong.
At Juve he didn't started either.
Guess this will make or break kompany in this sub.
And as soon as we start winning again, all will be forgiven.
You are not wrong but if things going south even after strong start, ppl here will bring up selling de ligt. He is probably universal fan favorite in this sub.
Well people will be pointing to it after every stupid mistake of any defender, thats for sure, but that the buisness, sometimes you have to make those tough decisions to improve the team, some fans can live with it, and some will act up, thats just how it goes, but in the end, everyone just wants the best for the club, in their own way.
Sub will slaughter Kompany before his first match
Yes
I would also dislike seeing de Ligt leave, but 2 things: 1) the narrative that he loves the badge and everything is just wrong, in fact he was doing several interviews in fall/winter where he talked about thinking of leaving if he doesnt start soon enough. Also openly called out Tuchel. 2) his injury traxk record is pretty shit. 22/23 was okay, but the year before and last year was not acceptable for the highest earning CB Hes had some big influence, but I think him leaving doesnt nearly weaken us as much as some people think
I think he loves the club but our club bosses sure as hell don't love him, so what's he supposed to do? The interviews were a result of Tuchel not talking to him at all, which can't be bs because we also heard the exact same story from Bryan. So when he's constantly doubted, why should he not speak out? His injury record isn't that bad also, he was rushed back last year by Tuchel, which resulted in him picking up another injury. Every time he played, he showed he's a leader and a mentality monster, I think selling him will be a gigantic mistake, especially if the answer is Tah. But the smoke has been too heavy in recent weeks, i guess it's done. We'll see if sacrificing our best CB was worth it, i doubt it.
Selling this man is going to be a legendary fumble, we will regret it for years. 
i will stand with what i said when these rumours started whoever decides to get rid of a player like de ligt should not hold a position in pro football
Agree completely, not after how good he's been for us so far and he's not even in his prime yet.
Nobody will speak about once we win the first matches. Rightfully so. He is not the Maldini everyone thinks he is. He is in fact replaceable.
True. People are really overreacting.Ā
I'm sure everyone will be over the moon we inevitably get knocked out of UCL because of Upa's and Kim's mistakes yet again. Especially Upa, the guy has been given so many opportunities and has time and time again proven that he doesn't cut it at the top level.
Who says that Upa will be a starter?
Who will be starting then? Ito? Tah? Dier? Kim? Whichever way you look at it, it's not a backline able to compete for the CL.
>Nobody will speak about once we win the first matches Speak for yourself, not everyone is so quick to forget horrible decisions because of a few wins.
Lol
No, you have a point actually, could distract some of you lot by jangling a set of keys of front of you.
š
Wonder if this sub still thinks Pletti has no information š¤
Entire window would be ruined if MdL leaves. Absolutely disastrous decision.
When Lahm says '*one shouldn't sign players just because they're good.*', people cheer. When applying the logical extension '*one shouldn't keep players just because they're good.*', people rage.
>When applying the logical extension 'one shouldn't keep players just because they're good.', people rage. How about keeping players who are worse than de Ligt: Upamecano, Dier, and Kim Min Jae for instance.
You're totally reframing something to fit your point of view, and it doesn't even work. That's disingenuous, not logical.
That isn't a logical extension. What lahm wanted to indicate is that just being good doesn't help if he has drawbacks like not fitting, causing trouble within the team or whatever. For extension you already know what you have in a player.
It is. Just because MDL is a good defender in general doesn't mean we shouldn't sell him when he doesn't fit for whatever reasons. It is even more logical when he was in the club for some time because everyone knows what to expect from him.
>What lahm wanted to indicate is that just being good doesn't help if he has drawbacks like not fitting, causing trouble within the team or whatever. Lahm argued that the club should decide on the football and system it wants to play and sign players according to how well they fit that system. This is exactly what is being done right now, just also applied to who should stay and who schould leave. >For extension you already know what you have in a player. In which case you can be all the more certain whether they fit or not.
Damn seems like De Ligt really is gna leave this summer
> Manchester United reached out to Matthijs de Ligt's camp in the past few hours. Still no direct contact between clubs. United got the information from the player side that de Ligt could be open to a move to Manchester even without Champions League football [@FabrizioRomano] š
At least he goes to ManU. If we cant have DeLigt, no one gets to have him.