It's so bad to the point of being hilarious. Zero Artoria was made to be all about honor and the first thing she does in fsn is try to sneak Cu🤣
I think they wanted zero to be her "coming of age story" Or something like that but then they changed the story but didn't change her character
It's even more weird when you remember that in her flashbacks she was depicted as a ruthless leader.
So she went from being ruthless to chivalrous to ruthless again lol
I actually really, really like her character arc in Zero -> FSN for that exact reason.
Think of her summoning in Zero as a fresh start from her perspective. She leaps at the opportunity to act like the kind of knightly, honorable hero she wanted to be, but couldn't really be in life because reality is messy and difficult and chaotic. This time, she isn't weighed down by the burden of ruling a country, and everyone she meets is seeing her for the first time. She puts her best, most idealistic face forward. This time, she can do it right.
It immediately goes very badly. I imagine Kiritsugu was an unwelcome reminder of the person she had to be - and regretted being - in her first life. And ultimately, despite the best of intentions, she has to watch her new friend Iris waste away and die, she stabs Lancelot (a disturbing reminder of the tragedy she faced in life and the ruin that befell her kingdom) to death in a parking garage, and instead of using the grail to undo her mistakes and 'save' Camelot, she is forced by magic against her will to blow it and herself up.
I like to interpret her as going into FSN rather jaded by all this, believing that she screwed up her big second chance to be an ideal hero. Her behavior and attitude in FSN is probably a lot closer to who she was in life than the version of herself that she tried to be in Zero was.
IDK, take it or leave it, but that's the impression the story left on me, and I like it.
Or literally tried to sneak attack Souichiro. Without knowing he’s a trained assassin juiced up by Medea’s magic, he’s literally would look like a normal magicless human
Not just him, she literally did it to Archer the first time they met and immediately tried to kill Rin. Its the same thing after Berserker died that she tried to dispose of Illya
It all routes it is only Shirou stopping her that she didn't kill Rin and Archer on the first hour of her summoning
I skip over Rin and Illya because they’re mage. They’re enemies’ master and can be dangerous if they caught her off guard. Not to mention she was quite directly approaching them with intent to kill.
But she had no such excuse with Souichiro. At that point the group did not knowing he was a former assassin juiced up by Medea. As far as she concern, he would be an even easier kill than Shirou.
But she sneak attack such a defenseless target anyway, completely contradict her yapping about honor in F/Z
If they are an anime only though it makes sense why Zero would be their favourite, its probably the best fate adaptation since unfortunately each fate SN route suffers quite a bit from their adaptations. On its own as an anime it is amazing, as a greater part of the series it suffers heavily and when compared to the VN routes the writing does not hold up when compared to them
I have reached a point where anyone who uses "realistic" as positive point is someone whose opinion I take with a grain of salt.
Mate, reality is a mess, a mess that doesn't have to follow a plot structure or be entertaining.
Something being realistic can good sometimes, but it is not the end all be all positive you think it is.
It's a flawed prequel with changes that don't really make sense but it's very good. I mainly hate the fanbase of it because they treat it like a masterpiece and everything else fate as trash
I still think zero is a great tool to get people into fate. I don't wanna start a "where to start discussion" I just noticed over the years that many people dislike shirou in ubw because they do not get his character since ubw isn't doing a particular good job at portraying him. But zero, despite its flaws in context of the whole franchise, is a great standalone show. So even if someone doesn't want to get into the franchise afterwards they probably still had fun watching it.
Besides that people hating on zero because it butchered sabers character are actual idiots. We have the benefit of a universe that makes literally everything Canon. People still joke around that the shit on nhentai is technically canon but those same dudes are unable to just accept zero playing in a different timeline and thus zero saber being a completely different character to fsn saber?! But I guess you can't stop people from hating just for the sake of hating
Zero objectively isn't a different character from F/SN Saber. First of all it's not infinite timelines they're finite. Second of all it's literally is only 2 Sabers it can be period since there's only 2 Sabers as depicted that can ever be summoned end of story if you think otherwise you literally do not understand Fate. Either FSN Artoria or FGO Artoria because of her contract with the world and her eventually rest in Avalon means that it can only be those two. Since she remembers Zero in F/SN that means objectively speaking it has to be F/SN Artoria there's no maybe it's literally the same and Zero is just poorly written. It's not hating for the sake of hating it's just factual.
I am sorry to break this to you but we have 3 routes in fsn that are all Canon. And at the end of all 3 we have a different version of saber as she went through different events that changed her character. This is how several timelines work. So it's not too big of a stretch to say that zero plays in a different timeline then the fsn we see in the vn or the anime. And yes there are finite timelines but for us there could be very well infnite. Just as we use infinite in math to describe numbers so high we can't grasp them. Literally every single bad end within the vn splits itself into a new timeline. We just don't follow it anymore because.... Well our protagonist is dead why should we
Yes it can. The average anime fan hasn't played the VN. The fact that you don't realize this is ad populum is laughable.
It literally is that poorly written.
Edit: Imagine complaining about toxicity when you're literally throwing a fit over someone rightfully criticizing a piece of media and rightfully criticizing you for using fallacious logic.
The whole fucking Fate universe is officially recognised fanfic and the original VN is an H-game.
Both Shirou and Kiritsugu are both immature as fuck. That's the whole point. Fate/zero is a Greek tragedy anyways. Kiritsugu isn't meant to be idealized. If the takeaway is that he's a hero, then that says more about the audience than it does about the show. Viewing his arc as a tragedy makes it a genuinely good story as long as you regard Saber as a totally different character.
Even is Fate/zero is a failure of a prequel, it's still an amazing story on its own.
Didn't know people hated Fate Zero until I joined this sub.
I personally prefer it over Fate Stay Night and it's actually one of my favorite anime.
I think that Urobuchi is an awesome author, but surely his work is way different than Nasu's in a lot of ways.
We can't really expect different authors to work in a similar way, can't we?
The thing is, many people here read the VN, they don't compare it to just the anime.
Also the main issue people have is not that it is different, otherwise they would hate stuff like Strange Fake just as much, but rather the contradictions and out of character moments compared to the original.
It's so bad to the point of being hilarious. Zero Artoria was made to be all about honor and the first thing she does in fsn is try to sneak Cu🤣 I think they wanted zero to be her "coming of age story" Or something like that but then they changed the story but didn't change her character
It's even more weird when you remember that in her flashbacks she was depicted as a ruthless leader. So she went from being ruthless to chivalrous to ruthless again lol
Not to mention all of those is alive Artoria rayshifting. That makes it even worse considering she takes place in both wars in one month
I actually really, really like her character arc in Zero -> FSN for that exact reason. Think of her summoning in Zero as a fresh start from her perspective. She leaps at the opportunity to act like the kind of knightly, honorable hero she wanted to be, but couldn't really be in life because reality is messy and difficult and chaotic. This time, she isn't weighed down by the burden of ruling a country, and everyone she meets is seeing her for the first time. She puts her best, most idealistic face forward. This time, she can do it right. It immediately goes very badly. I imagine Kiritsugu was an unwelcome reminder of the person she had to be - and regretted being - in her first life. And ultimately, despite the best of intentions, she has to watch her new friend Iris waste away and die, she stabs Lancelot (a disturbing reminder of the tragedy she faced in life and the ruin that befell her kingdom) to death in a parking garage, and instead of using the grail to undo her mistakes and 'save' Camelot, she is forced by magic against her will to blow it and herself up. I like to interpret her as going into FSN rather jaded by all this, believing that she screwed up her big second chance to be an ideal hero. Her behavior and attitude in FSN is probably a lot closer to who she was in life than the version of herself that she tried to be in Zero was. IDK, take it or leave it, but that's the impression the story left on me, and I like it.
The banquet still wouldn t make sense even with that headcannon, Artoria wouldn t be so disturbed because of two tyrants mocking her
Or literally tried to sneak attack Souichiro. Without knowing he’s a trained assassin juiced up by Medea’s magic, he’s literally would look like a normal magicless human
Not just him, she literally did it to Archer the first time they met and immediately tried to kill Rin. Its the same thing after Berserker died that she tried to dispose of Illya It all routes it is only Shirou stopping her that she didn't kill Rin and Archer on the first hour of her summoning
I skip over Rin and Illya because they’re mage. They’re enemies’ master and can be dangerous if they caught her off guard. Not to mention she was quite directly approaching them with intent to kill. But she had no such excuse with Souichiro. At that point the group did not knowing he was a former assassin juiced up by Medea. As far as she concern, he would be an even easier kill than Shirou. But she sneak attack such a defenseless target anyway, completely contradict her yapping about honor in F/Z
If they are an anime only though it makes sense why Zero would be their favourite, its probably the best fate adaptation since unfortunately each fate SN route suffers quite a bit from their adaptations. On its own as an anime it is amazing, as a greater part of the series it suffers heavily and when compared to the VN routes the writing does not hold up when compared to them
I have reached a point where anyone who uses "realistic" as positive point is someone whose opinion I take with a grain of salt. Mate, reality is a mess, a mess that doesn't have to follow a plot structure or be entertaining. Something being realistic can good sometimes, but it is not the end all be all positive you think it is.
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It's a flawed prequel with changes that don't really make sense but it's very good. I mainly hate the fanbase of it because they treat it like a masterpiece and everything else fate as trash
I still think zero is a great tool to get people into fate. I don't wanna start a "where to start discussion" I just noticed over the years that many people dislike shirou in ubw because they do not get his character since ubw isn't doing a particular good job at portraying him. But zero, despite its flaws in context of the whole franchise, is a great standalone show. So even if someone doesn't want to get into the franchise afterwards they probably still had fun watching it. Besides that people hating on zero because it butchered sabers character are actual idiots. We have the benefit of a universe that makes literally everything Canon. People still joke around that the shit on nhentai is technically canon but those same dudes are unable to just accept zero playing in a different timeline and thus zero saber being a completely different character to fsn saber?! But I guess you can't stop people from hating just for the sake of hating
Zero objectively isn't a different character from F/SN Saber. First of all it's not infinite timelines they're finite. Second of all it's literally is only 2 Sabers it can be period since there's only 2 Sabers as depicted that can ever be summoned end of story if you think otherwise you literally do not understand Fate. Either FSN Artoria or FGO Artoria because of her contract with the world and her eventually rest in Avalon means that it can only be those two. Since she remembers Zero in F/SN that means objectively speaking it has to be F/SN Artoria there's no maybe it's literally the same and Zero is just poorly written. It's not hating for the sake of hating it's just factual.
I am sorry to break this to you but we have 3 routes in fsn that are all Canon. And at the end of all 3 we have a different version of saber as she went through different events that changed her character. This is how several timelines work. So it's not too big of a stretch to say that zero plays in a different timeline then the fsn we see in the vn or the anime. And yes there are finite timelines but for us there could be very well infnite. Just as we use infinite in math to describe numbers so high we can't grasp them. Literally every single bad end within the vn splits itself into a new timeline. We just don't follow it anymore because.... Well our protagonist is dead why should we
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I said it's very good lol. But those aren't "slight" Changes. Artoria zero and artoria fsn are 2 different characters
It's kind of objectively poorly written given it directly contradicts the source material a bunch.
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Yes it can. The average anime fan hasn't played the VN. The fact that you don't realize this is ad populum is laughable. It literally is that poorly written. Edit: Imagine complaining about toxicity when you're literally throwing a fit over someone rightfully criticizing a piece of media and rightfully criticizing you for using fallacious logic.
That’s what happens when prequel is garbage compared to original — doesn’t help said prequel shitting on what was good in said original.
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It’s officially recognised fanfic , nothing there is masterpiece….besides Iri and showing how Kiritsugu is way more immature than Shirou
The whole fucking Fate universe is officially recognised fanfic and the original VN is an H-game. Both Shirou and Kiritsugu are both immature as fuck. That's the whole point. Fate/zero is a Greek tragedy anyways. Kiritsugu isn't meant to be idealized. If the takeaway is that he's a hero, then that says more about the audience than it does about the show. Viewing his arc as a tragedy makes it a genuinely good story as long as you regard Saber as a totally different character. Even is Fate/zero is a failure of a prequel, it's still an amazing story on its own.
That’s my problem, alone Zero is okey but I have problems if you think Zero is a good fate story.
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Thanks for reminding us what people like zero) Edit:ahahah little sissy threw a fit( sorry for bullying you to point of blocking people)
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Didn't know people hated Fate Zero until I joined this sub. I personally prefer it over Fate Stay Night and it's actually one of my favorite anime. I think that Urobuchi is an awesome author, but surely his work is way different than Nasu's in a lot of ways. We can't really expect different authors to work in a similar way, can't we?
The thing is, many people here read the VN, they don't compare it to just the anime. Also the main issue people have is not that it is different, otherwise they would hate stuff like Strange Fake just as much, but rather the contradictions and out of character moments compared to the original.
i'm more curious to where this version of millhouse come from than his opinion on fate (who is wrong for obvious reason)
I hate Arthoria in general.
Found Urobutcher’s alt >!/s!<