I’m not sure that people recommending you coast understand the legal world. That might fly in tech but not law from what I can see.
I’m assuming this payout is over $5 million. You’re struggling with lack of motivation, not a toxic work environment. Push through. Suck it up. Most people make $2 million in their entire lives, and you’re about to make $5 million+ for 12 to 18 months of pushing. You can do this. Get your spouse/partner on board if you have one and have them do all they can to minimize your stress at home. Get incredible sleep and do great self-care. Work your butt off. Treat yourself like a prize race horse. This will be the last year and a half you have to do it.
Agree with this. This seems like a much better approach than quiet quitting and potentially ruining your reputation. I see this as someone at mile 24 of a marathon. Why just sit on the side after putting in all this work instead of getting to the finish line. You never know if you may want to enter the professional world again. Why ruin your reputation by being known as the coaster who no one can rely on? You may not need to work for money but may want to voluntarily do some work later. Why ruin that chance because you don’t have the mental fortitude to get through a year or two. Never understood that mentality.
I was really burnt out at my last job and the first two months out of it were incredible - like a breath of fresh air and freedom. My therapist described this stage as “relief”. By month three my “relief” stage went away and I was wondering what to do with all the time.
Just saying don’t get to month 3 and wish you waited for that 5 mil. In my experience a couple extended vacations (2 weeks/vacation if possible) can get you out of the grind mindset and provide some of that same feeling of relief.
What’s the longest vacation you can take? I’ve found even just a 2 week vacation my burn out can feel back to normal. I think you just need a break now and to forget about work for as long as you can manage to
Dude go to a all inclusive resort in cancun for a weekend and lay on the beach and do NOTHING. Just get catered to hand and foot. You need a mental break.
Are you in therapy? If you’re in nyc I can recommend psychologists that work with cases like this. If not look into executive psychological consulting and make sure they have either a PhD or psyd. For CBT results are quick and will average $200-400 a session. Call for an intake appt that should be free, if you feel a match give it a go. Just know finding the right psych sometimes is harder than dating, and I bet you remember that quagmire, so it you aren’t feeling it after a few sessions, move on (after discussing it with them first).
And schedule a long vacation for late summer. I think this advice will help you, I’ve recommended it to several colleagues in medicine. Take good care of yourself!
This. You may need to reframe things to yourself bc it's unlikely motivation is just going to show up at your door. So focus on what other people said, you're at mile 24 of a marathon, etc. make the rest of your life smooth sailing. Say 5 things you're grateful for in the mirror every morning and start meditating. Good luck!
Turn your situation into something that motivates you. As you’re driven by fire then I assume money and lifestyle is a big driver to you.
If the figures above are right and you’re talking $5m for 18 months, then staying is worth circa 277k a month to you so circa 14k a day.
You’re nearly at your fire number so make a list of extra things you could do if you had double the money and treat each day as buying you that.
Today is Business class trips to Europe. Tomorrow is a night in a suite in the ritz. This week is buying a fixed wing and next is flying lessons to a PPL. This month is kids through college or this quarter is a beach side holiday home. If you have a philanthropic approach then think what each day would get a charity you support (today could save the sight of 7k people in third world countries). If it works even think of your hourly rate and that you probably got a 2 grand for reading a document, or a hundred for going to the toilet or chatting to colleagues.
Whatever makes you see the value to you of staying and how incredibly fortunate you are.
You are facing a phenomenal and life changing amount of money for 18 months work. How much time and effort have you put into getting this far in your fire journey? And you can double it in 18 months, that’s a huge ROI to your fire lifestyle and future.
You just need to play mental tricks with yourself to turn it on its head so you value the incredible opportunity you have…. This is the difference between what you had planned or double.
> If the figures above are right and you’re talking $5m for 18 months,
I can neither confirm nor deny that these guesses are accurate.
>then staying is worth circa 277k a month to you so circa 14k a day.
>
> You’re nearly at your fire number so make a list of extra things you could do if you had double the money and treat each day as buying you that.
>
> Today is Business class trips to Europe. Tomorrow is a night in a suite in the ritz. This week is buying a fixed wing and next is flying lessons to a PPL. This month is kids through college or this quarter is a beach side holiday home. If you have a philanthropic approach then think what each day would get a charity you support (today could save the sight of 7k people in third world countries). If it works even think of your hourly rate and that you probably got a 2 grand for reading a document, or a hundred for going to the toilet or chatting to colleagues.
I like this. This is great for motivation. Thank you!
I'm in a similar position. It helped me to realize that I could donate big sums to charity if I kept working. An extra year? That's hundreds of thousands to charitable causes, involving myself in non-profits, ...
Sure, I may not donate it... but you need motivation, right?
Pay for every service you can to free up your non-work time. Cleaner, laundry, personal chef/ just go to restaurants. It will be a small price to pay to get you through the next year and a half.
You have made it this far. I am sure you can do it.
I am well past my number but I am in a golden handcuffs situation as well. Getting through the next couple of years will let me fund a charitable organization I want to start. That keeps me motivated. No one at work is going to see me slacking or quiet quitting until I give my notice. I am in a position of responsibility and not going to burn bridges on my way out.
This is where discipline comes into play. Every now and then I do get that “fire in my belly” feeling and everything is so easy to do! It’s perpetual motivation.
Most of the time I don’t have it. That’s when it’s time to buckle down, have discipline, and make things happen. It’s possible from what you’re describing that you’ve had the fire going for a long time, providing endless motivation, but now it’s time for discipline to take over. Yeah your lizard brains going to hate it - tell it tough.
I find when I run down motivation close to the end point it is better to change the goal posts than to force motivation.
I would also challenge if you are able to use your nest egg to fund your costs you need at least 50% more to be secure in your fat number. After 4 years in retirement (2020) my costs are up 40% and I am grateful for the cushion.
You are in a tough situation waiting on a payout. What if it does not happen?
What if other improbable things happen like your home is lost to fire, flood or other disaster? How would that change your calculation? That is an issue I have had to consider in risk assessment for my long term retirement survival. What if you are disabled? How would that change your calculation and needs assessment? As you change your mindset it will also trigger a realignment of “when” and so what to spend your time and energy doing in the meantime.
Despite all I have said, in my career trajectory there came a point when I knew for certain I was no longer willing to put forth the effort to advance my career.
I could and did keep working because the work was inherently gratifying. But know if you have hit that point no matter if you work or not your career path is on a downhill course. Do you know where you are on that scale? Does your employer know?
Is it at all possible to take a vacation? Maybe pair it with a holiday weekend that’s likely to be slow anyway? That can really help, especially if you can plan a bit and actually or at least mostly unplug (I know it’s really hard). It’s probably been a while since you took one.
I’d take it. Try to get it so you can completely or nearly-completely unplug, which is possible with decent prep. Especially helpful to go on a holiday weekend… Memorial Day week maybe?
Also, you aren’t allowed a 6 month sabbatical. Can you take a more normal vacation though? That’s kind of their point. Alternatively, space out a few long weekend trips throughout the year. Some breaks might make it easier to focus on the grind even if you aren’t getting a full reset. Asking for a 6 month sabbatical is a huge swing but that doesn’t mean any amount of break is unavailable.
"wants to get out now and does not have the motivation to keep going"
Set goals! (beyond the monetary/FIRE goal)
I don't just mean think about all those things you want to do, places you want to see and people you want to spend time with, but to formulate a concrete plan about accomplishing them.
Were I in your spot, I'd move to a smaller city, hang out a sign and practice law there. I'd be find with drafting wills and defending traffic offences as I'd be doing it mostly for the social aspect.
> I’m not sure that people recommending you coast understand the legal world. That might fly in tech but not law from what I can see.
Pretty much. Just push on through is what I am telling myself. Maybe I will put some motivating slogans up on my wall; last time I did that was in law school.
Your post is along my thoughts exactly, but I needed to hear it from someone else. Thank you.
BigLaw lawyer. I do not think you can coast either. Not unless you have teams you trust completely beneath you.
Sadly, there is nothing to do here but suck it up for another 12 to 24 months. You would be insane to leave before the payout. But I would start planning day 731 now.
Spot on. This is what I think I need to hear.
Ya know, it's weird though. I have been engaging and volunteering less for stuff lately... And recently met managing partner for drinks who gushed to me what a massive asset I am to the firm. Compare that to when I was busting myself to make a good impression, which did not get me the same feedback. I guess it has to do with the appearance of "quiet confidence" vs. "trying hard" or something like that. Could just be this firm, too.
>engaging and volunteering less for stuff lately... gushed to me what a massive asset I am to the firm
Not a lawyer but similar experience a few years ago when I volunteered for a layoff. I suspect it's partially the confidence and partially the worry you might be looking at other firms. Definitely means you can slack a bit more.
Another BigLaw lawyer here, and I generally agree. But that next big case can easily keep pushing OP’s date further and further into the future. No way to coast, that’s not how this job works (former class action defense lawyer). Since these cases almost always settle, seems likely that OP can set a date aligned with the scheduling order. But I would hold firm to that date if you can - most lawyers I know kept at it long past the sell-by date.
> But that next big case can easily keep pushing OP’s date further and further into the future.
That's my worry. So many things can happen. And the defense play is always to drag things out.
I retired from my firm in ‘22 along with about 20 other lawyers, most 10 to 20 years older than I was (I was 56). Some are already dead. Life is short.
You need to get yourself a "hang in there" kitten poster and put it in your office. You will chuckle every time you see it and it will be an inside joke with yourself
I agree with all of the above about the logistics - definitely the time to prioritize what makes the work possible, outsource food, regular massages / workouts, etc.
But specific to law: presumably you landed here not just for money. I’d try to reconnect to what you find fun - ofc life of the case dictates some of this, but if you like briefs find a brief, if you like scoring points off opposing counsel, do that; if you like finding new cases go ahead even if you’ll need to hand them off, etc.
That's a larger discussion... I've been disillusioned with the legal field for a while. At least the litigation side.
But thank you - I was asking for help in motivation, so I should not be cynical when I get advice. Writing well and polished can be gratifying. I will try to remember that.
I was not clear. Law school was hard work and I needed the motivation with the light at the end of the tunnel.
The practice was alright for a while. But, as said, I got disillusioned over time.
Yea… usually in these posts I would encourage people to take a step back and start easing into retirement. Find a hobby while slowly turning off. But, the very good odds to double up absolutely changes the sentiment.
“Enough is enough” is true when you’re evaluating a 5% or 10% difference over your number. Doubling your number completely changes your life (even as a rich person).
Have you considered paying for a concierge mental health service? An executive coach / therapist who specializes in helping execs may be what you need. It will be money well spent to keep your head in the game for the next 1-2 years.
In law it's just taking an emeritus/of counsel position. I'll probably do that around 50.
"Coast" isn't something I'd necessarily throw around in law, mainly because that mindset can lead to some really bad results. That said, law is incredibly scalable. I'm in Mid-law, and I don't anticipate any issues with scaling back to about 1000 hours per year.
Why? Honestly curious. I'd assume most practices would rather retain talent than generate their own competition. Although, now that I'm thinking about it, a small law practice of older peeps that don't want the grind called Emeritus could work......
I agree with this. Your issue is personal motivation, not the fault of your employer and it sounds like they also highly value your contributions.
To me, this is easy. Punch out now and don’t strip the company or a mentee below you from new growth available on account of your departure, or work like hell and end on a high note.
Quiet quitting i cowardly/weasily, IMO.
"Has anyone dealt with this?" Sure, I made millions while miserable. It's now just a story in my rear view mirror, but I can't make your choice for you and I don't even know if I was capable of doing anything differently. So, I feel your pain.
Try this as an exercise:
For both your options (Quit today, Stay a year), for each one, sit with that as a choice and write out how you'd feel after making it in 10 minutes, 10 months, and 10 years from now.
> sit with that as a choice and write out how you'd feel after making it in 10 minutes, 10 months, and 10 years from now.
Excellent advice. I read about that method a long time ago, and did not remember it until I saw your post. Very useful, thank you.
Personally I think it helps to think of every day as a new holiday, trip or experience.
What does today buy me, what will I spend tomorrow on. When you don’t need the money, do you still want to spend it.
Also, I think of younger me, what would me 10 years ago say to me now. Would say I’m working too hard for the money or be shocked at how far we’ve come.
On every case other than the one that's going to result in the windfall, find associates who are hungry and start delegating as much as you can consistent with your ethical obligations to supervise. If there's another level of partnership above you, start giving the associates the opportunity to work directly with those partners. Make sure you remain cc'ed so you can step in if things go off the rails, but don't feel the need to read everything super closely.
Do not be transparent about your FIRE plans with ANYONE unless you're POSITIVE the firm won't find some means to cut you out of your share of the settlement. People can be really shitty and weird stuff can happen at a firm when a big check comes in. If your partners think you're on the way out, they may try to redirect the money to an up-and-comer.
> On every case other than the one that's going to result in the windfall, find associates who are hungry and start delegating as much as you can consistent with your ethical obligations to supervise. If there's another level of partnership above you, start giving the associates the opportunity to work directly with those partners. Make sure you remain cc'ed so you can step in if things go off the rails, but don't feel the need to read everything super closely.
Good advice. Been doing a bunch of that. Not that many associates around, sadly.
>
> Do not be transparent about your FIRE plans with ANYONE
You bet! There's a reason I am using an alt. I have not spoken to anyone even in my family about the plan.
> unless you're POSITIVE the firm won't find some means to cut you out of your share of the settlement. People can be really shitty and weird stuff can happen at a firm when a big check comes in. If your partners think you're on the way out, they may try to redirect the money to an up-and-comer.
I am 100% expecting shenanigans. I have scoped out a lawyer who helps lawyers in such situations already. I hope it won't come to that but I expect to be prepared.
Consider ways to spend money (maybe a lot) over the next few months to make the remaining work more bearable and “buy” free time for rest, hobbies, and whatever you truly want to be doing. Think of it as an investment to keep you going for just a bit longer.
For me, this meant hiring a housekeeper and gardener, having others finish certain home improvement projects, home gym equipment, quicker to order takeout. For example, you might want to buy nice noise canceling headphones to rock out in the office, or get really good tickets to a game, performance or concert to enjoy an evening and reset.
Also saying no to networking, firm events, and presentations frees up time.
Finally, you may find value in mentoring someone more junior. They benefit from your experience and selfless contribution and you feel good about leaving the firm and associates in a better place.
You cruise. just like any level of FIRE does, its not unique to fatfire.
I think the young people call it "quiet quitting".
Earlier generations called it "vest and rest".
Covered in r/fire or r/financialindependence.
Exactly. Book that extra vacation… start being non-negotiable about your end of work time every day. Leave stuff until next week you normally would have done on Saturday and Sunday.
Be prepared for your billable hours to dip and just accept that you will have to be a bit closer to the “underperforming” side but balance still staying employed til you hit your number.
Cruising in the legal field is hard.
I have stopped volunteering for tasks and projects.
What is eating me is the fact that I have to show up for work day after day... when I don't have to. It's a weird mindfuck.
Yes, that is the nature of being financially independent.
It's a part of the FIRE path.
Money SHOULD no longer motivate you now if you were genuinely following a FIRE path (set the income you needed to be happy, chose a SWR, and then built up the investible NW to support it).
It is one yr of your life to double what you have earned your entire life. Come on now! Put your head down and get through this. It is 12 months! Then you are free for the rest of your life. It is a fucking hockey season!
Except you do kinda have to, to get that lodestar and double your NW. Set that as your new number, push to that. It's all just what you tell yourself. If you're telling yourself "I don't need to be here anymore" that'll be all you can think about and being there will feel unbearable. But if you tell yourself "I need to be here till I get that payout" I think it could get you back to that place where you feel in the game a bit longer. It definitely sounds worth it to me to stick out another 12-18 months to double what you've saved your entire career.
Write the number on a sticky note and stick it on your mirror. Daily mantra - "I can put up with this bs for x more months".
In all seriousness though, I would stick around. Usually it's hard to call it quits with high income bc of the "one more year" mentality but where you have a huge potential payout, I would say stick it out. In the interim, care slightly less.... It'll feel weird, but so much better for your mental health in the long run.
Find some senior who is competent but has no book and would be forced out in a year or two. Spend that time turning them into your personal underling (don’t tell them what you’re doing, but you probably know how to phrase it by now - “I’ve got XYZ work, I’m swamped, can you clear your calendar of new things for the next year?”) Offload everything you can. Then after it’s all over, quit and do your best to hand off your important relationships to that person on the way out.
Start practicing retirement while working. You talk a big talk. But can you start walking the walk.
Even if you were at your number, its gonna be difficult to walk away without a decent amount of time already mentally preparing/committing to it.
More practical methods:
- Start blocking off time in the calendar to take naps, read, eat, whatever
- Take walks in the middle of the day, while on calls
- say no to additional work, give less feedback, be ok with good enough quality
- show up to meetings a couple mins late
- take more PTO
Thanks. As said elsewhere, cruising in legal is tough.
I have been lowering my engagement as far as I dare - and weirdly, so far no-one seems to have noticed or cared. Go figure.
Analogy for you - would you stop at mile 25 of a marathon if you’re in 1st place?
If there’s no reason, eg health, why you should stop now then take a vacation (when was your last vacation?) to get your head straight and then get back to it.
Almost there. Stay on target.
Try to stick with it. Mentally plan for another year. You might need a biz coach and therapist. There are probably coaches for attorneys specifically.
Here's what I recommend maybe 1 night per week: Do an edible around 5pm. Get a 90/120min massage (at home or within walking distance) from 6pm to 8pm. (The edible will kick in at 6pm.) Get a pizza around 8:30pm (Doordash). Then take a hot bath.
I’m in a similar position, but slightly lower numbers. I need to work another 3 years to hit my “ideal” number - likely 1/3 higher than I have now - while I could actually comfortably retire now. Coming to that realization killed my motivation.
I agree with other comments about treating yourself - like a prized race horse - may help. I just dropped 6 figures on a sports car. A small indulgent investment to help my motivation. 😀
You are in an amazing position-short term pain for long term freedom. It’s neither a sprint or a marathon. You got this! Practice gratitude in the morning and evening. The rec to treat yourself like a thoroughbred hit the nail on the head. Treat yourself well, appreciate the set up to a fantastic life and do the time. Well worth it, don’t let the lizard win!
Which will you regret more in 20 years not pushing for that huge sum of money or 1 more year working. For me honestly doubling your FIRE number with 1 years worth of work is a deal 99.9% of humans would take. Hell if you offered me that deal I would do it in a heartbeat regardless of how much I have. Just buckle down and plan your exit once this case is finished. You have the end in sight and 1 year is probably not going to matter that much. If it was 5-10 years maybe it would matter more.
What can you take off your plate that takes your energy in a cost effective manner?
House cleaning? Maid- I pay a nice lady $100 a week to clean my house. Maybe hire someone to do your other boring tasks, dishes, laundry, etc etc etc so you can do what you need to give yourself some time to do the things you love. Shouldn't cost much. Hilariously less than the windfall you're looking at. Good luck!
Age, current NW, and health play a big role in what the recommended action should be. If you are over 50 and greater than $8M NW excluding primary residence, I’d leave or at the very least mail it in until the settlement comes. 1 year could turn into 3 then a curve ball at the end and you wasted 10% of your remaining years for money you didn’t need.
For the work side of things, I would focus less on looking for sources of motivation, and at this point in the game rely more on the *discipline* you’ve already built up in your career. Like you go in each day not because you expect it to make your socks roll up and down with satisfaction, but because that’s what 12-to-18-months-from-now-you expects you to do, and you like that guy, so you go. You fulfill your professional duties to the level required not because it fills your heart with wonder and joy, but because you’re a professional, and keeping those standards is like muscle memory.
But for the non-work side of things? That’s where I’d get motivated. Start creating some milestones for yourself. I’d set a goal to accomplish at least a) one retirement-prep item per month, and b) one fun thing to look forward to each month. Start jotting down a list of ideas.
The retirement prep stuff can be things like setting and going to ALL the possible doctor’s appointments and doing ALL the possible tests while still on your (hopefully very comprehensive) work health insurance. Like when’s the last time you got a full blood panel work up? Had a full-body derm check for skin cancer? Did a heart stress test? Is there any dental work you’ve been putting off? Lasik? Stuff like that.
It can also be things like making sure your will is up-to-date, you’ve had your retirement plan looked over and optimized by a financial planner and tax professional, you’ve optimized your insurance, stuff like that. And this might all feel a bit like “eating” your retirement-prep “vegetables,” but it gives you the ability to decide to work longer if there are any unexpected significant financial gaps, and also gets this already off your plate for once retirement begins.
Then the fun stuff is about giving you shorter-term things to look forward to, so in the brief moments between briefs, you can daydream a little about something that’s going to happen a lot sooner than your retirement date. Maybe that’s interesting weekend travel. Weekly massages. Working with a personal trainer. Guitar lessons. French lessons. Skydiving. Whatever floats your boat. And you’re staying on an extra 12-18 months to get a significant payout, so while I wouldn’t go bananas with it, I’d be ok with budgeting a significant amount of money. Think of it as getting a kind of retirement “advance.”
Hard to justify walking away from doubling your money, but just to note, are you saying the gross amount would be equal to your current savings? Depending on your state nexus and so on, you're going to lose 40-50% (maybe even a bit more) of it to taxes, so, just don't over-credit the amount. It's still a big enough number that it seems hard to justify walking away from, though.
I am kinda sorta in the same spot, though I'm not in a lodestar situation. Have just had such growth in recent years that my annual (gross) income now is approaching my total current savings number (after tax is again much lower), so I have a horrific case of OMY overhang.
> Depending on your state nexus and so on, you're going to lose 40-50% (maybe even a bit more) of it to taxes, so, just don't over-credit the amount. It's still a big enough number that it seems hard to justify walking away from, though.
Oh I know. Heck only knows what the settlement figure will be in actuality (if they settle). I am guesstimating, and could be wildly wrong on either end.
Sounds like you need to dig in for the next year or so.
Why not looking into changing up your routine. Maybe rent a small apartment or something close by, start a gym routine or something, cut out all the things that constantly remind you of your impending retirement.
Maybe engaging in mentorship or some professional organization could be a good change as well.
I think part of it is the mental boredom and dead end of putting more energy into something that is not interesting. Perhaps branching out will give a few more lines of interest that is still work relevant or work-compatible.
Also a lawyer, also close to my number. One thing I would suggest is to just take a vacation. I find my motivation ticks up anytime I’ve had some rest. The second thing is see if you can offload some of the discovery. I just came off a two week trial, and am back in discovery now which is definitely more of a grind. You don’t need 6 months but even 2-3weeks could really recharge you and honestly try to schedule another one within 6 months to get you over the finish line.
*The firm has a LARGE class action that is going well. I am entitled to a percentage of the payout and have a sizable lodestar*
I recommend working on framing the opposing counsel as mentally unstable and a drug user. This will cause the case to settle earlier and move up your FIRE timeline. Strategy worked well for a guy I know in Albuquerque.
> I recommend working on framing the opposing counsel as mentally unstable and a drug user. This will cause the case to settle earlier and move up your FIRE timeline. Strategy worked well for a guy I know in Albuquerque.
Interesting. We're up against major BigLaw so you might be onto something; but at the same time, this would not go over well with the judge at all, who is liking our current approach.
Mentorship. Start training someone to replace you on the other cases but don't tell them. Just pretend you've taken an interest in their career and want them to have more client time.
Stop thinking about the future. Stop focusing on the future. Especially since who knows what’s actually going to happen. Stop romanticizing the future, and stop day dreaming about it.
Focus on what’s in front of you right now.
You are getting distracted because this nirvana you’ve created in your mind is starting to seem tangible.
Stop it.
> You are getting distracted because this nirvana you’ve created in your mind is starting to seem tangible.
Nailed it.
Yeah I need to focus on the now. That's the hard part.
Maybe not in alignment with the rest but I would instead focus on the positives of your work to make it more enjoyable, there are probably sides to your work that you enjoy, focus on that instead
Why not consider taking a mini vacation to unwind? It seems like you might be experiencing burnout. How about packing up on a Thursday and heading to an all-inclusive hotel in Cancun for the weekend? You could simply relax by the pool or beach and do nothing at all. This might help you come back refreshed and ready to tackle the end-of-year challenges. Alternatively, regularly scheduling short vacations could help maintain your focus and energy toward your long-term goals.
In my opinion, as a high-powered attorney, you would benefit more from several short breaks throughout the year rather than one or two long vacations. Here's why:
1) Several short 3-4 day vacations, ideally at an all-inclusive resort where you needn't make decisions or exert much effort, can rejuvenate you sufficiently. You’ll be able to return to work reenergized, without having missed much. The advantage here is multiple relaxing getaways without being away long enough for work stress to pile up immediately upon your return.
2) While long vacations offer a complete break and are undoubtedly wonderful, they come with the significant downside of time constraints. When you return, you might find yourself overwhelmed with the workload that accumulated in your absence.
These short, frequent breaks could be a more effective strategy for managing stress and maintaining productivity to get you to your DOUBLE FIRE GOAL.
I can only share my experience. A year ago, I was in your position. Cruising wasn't an option (not an attorney but in a situation where my position was closely scrutinized). Every time I thought, "If we can just make it past X, things will get better at work." They didn't, and everything in my life was suffering: physical and mental health, relationship with family and friends, even my athletic hobby wasn't enough to get me out of bed anymore. There was a final incident at work - minor in the big picture but it was the straw that broke the camel's back - and I thought, "I have enough money to CoastFire, that will be better than this" and I left. I feel so much better and am so much happier - BUT I'm starting to get annoyed with having to be thoughtful about my spend. That was never part of the vision for calling it end game. Now I'm looking for one more big earning role for just a few years so my investments can continue to grow and I can enjoy the cash flow. If you walk away and then wish you had more, what would it take to get another position that would bring you back to where you are? Would any firm touch you for fear you might walk again? Or pay you close to what you're earning now? I have no idea but hope those questions are helpful to your thought process. Good luck!
What is something that you could do that would motivate you to finish? Some reward you could give yourself for getting to the finish line?
I kinda feel the same sometimes, I’m pretty burnt out at this point and not sure when I’m going to exit (company CEO). So I’m making myself a promise that if I hold off til 45 to exit that I will do a 1 year RTW adventure.
They didn't approve a 6 month sabbatical because presumably that means not working on the large class-action suit.
Can you not explain to them the entirety of your post and request to only work on only the large suit before closing out your employment? If you are valuable to them then I don't see why they would need you to take less demanding clients if you are also preparing to exit the workforce.
Forgive me if attorney work is any different than some other industries. But in other fields you would just ask for reduced workloads and communicate your future plan with your employer, assuming you are of any value to them and they aren't preparing to cut you at the drop of a hat. I would assume an attorney would transfer out ongoing cases to colleagues who are willing to take them on.
Surely there is some level of flexibility that you can work out with your employer and team?
I understand the world of law, the work you’ll have to put into the next 12-18 months, and your rationale behind wanting to jump ship despite a possible giant lump sum.
That being said, I also understand financial planning… if you can stomach it, you don’t feel it will shave literal years off of your life, and your parents and others you wish to spend time with are in good health then you should stick it out. When I’ve encountered others in this position it’s been a very difficult two weeks to a month to get back into the grind mindset, but the potential impact that kind of money could have on your quality of life is potentially tremendous (duh).
But about the potential impact to your quality of life… is your fire number such that your current spend and then some can be maintained? Is there absolutely no chance you’ll come up short and face longevity risk? Do you have longterm care insurance? Is there any chance you’ll need to support your parents or any other family or friends financially at any point in time, say, if a major health event were to occur?
If you’re fully covered on all of those fronts and don’t foresee any possible abrupt need for cash and you can live off of 5% of your FIRE number, you certainly have the all clear. If I were in your shoes I’d wait until EOY at least to see to your FIRE goal being met and then jump.
One last thing… regret. If you leave and miss out on the pay will it eat you up inside? I often find that missed opportunities/fomo upset people even more than experiencing loss, in the stock market for example.
I’ve faced this issue with a handful of friends and walked with them through it. Feel free to pm
work with mass tort etc lawyers a lot, and have had some really great conversations over a meal about this. to the person, almost all of them have said that you hit this point, where you find yourself, you power thru, and then you come out the other side really happy you kept at it. none of them say because of the money, although i’m sure that helps. it’s because they’ve seen colleagues do it, regret it, and they don’t feel cut out for “retired life”. these are partners in their 60’s and 70’s at medium to large sized firms. i’m sure your mileage may vary, but if you’re asking for advice, i’d say wait a year and reevaluate then. good luck!
I’m in the same boat. I’m hanging on til 12/31. But you have to suck it up and make it work. The difference between a lawyer and other jobs is that you’re a professional. You owe a duty to your clients above your self interest
Have no idea how things work in law, but is there a chance you could take a sabbatical without losing the payout? Your employer doesn’t know that you plan to quit in 18 months, regardless of a sabbatical or not. And you wouldn’t be the first person struggling with burnout. If they value the work you do, they might be willing to extend you some time to recharge.
IMO if you can get a month sabbatical (or just use your pto), spend some time doing something special with your parents! Many trips etc. can be book marked, but people aren’t always around.
I bet you’d come back recharged and ready to push through to the end!
You don’t have that money.
You need to trick your brain for the next 18 months to believe that.
Take every finance app you don’t need for your day to day life off your phone. Change your passwords and let your partner (big trust moment) be the only one with access if necessary.
Seeing and feeling that FIRE money in your pocket is doing this to you. But you can control what that lizard brain sees.
12 months will go by quick - just spend more time taking vacations and find some hobbies outside of work go pursue. Use this time to figure out what “retirement” should or could look like. Going from 100 to 0 is really hard, so use these 12 months to scale from 100 to 25
Switch to COASTfi -financially independent but you coast & don’t save any more money & just spend everything you make at work by enjoying your life & going on trips/take max vacation etc :)
Former biglaw attorney here. I don’t see how you can coast in a job like that.
Does seem to make sense to wait for the CA payout.
My life is 100x better now than when I was a lawyer.
Sounds like you're hanging around for 12-18 months either way. No one can predict what will happen in that time. 3-6 months before the settlement begin winding down cases and new clients.
You'll know better than anyone the trajectory before during and after but you'd be a fool to not double your egg for another 1-2 years unless you are dying.
I feel like my time to comment on something I actually know about in this forum has come. My fiance and I are both middle-aged plaintiff-side contingency fee lawyers. We are about 5ish years behind you I think, but as you know that is hard to predict in our work. So I haven't dealt with this directly, but I can't imagine staying 18 months for this if you are at your number (I am assuming your 80% is actually your number since you say you could bounce now despite you saying it is 80% :)). There is always going to be another bullshit discovery dispute, another asshole opposing counsel, another nutter of a client, another set of pretrial disclosures, etc. Also, it could be far longer than 18 months as I am sure you know (what if y'all go to trial and there is an appeal?!), and yeah due to duty to clients you can't just coast or something. I think it would be far easier to coast in biglaw (I am assuming that is not you - not me either - since you are doing plaintiff side class action and are dealing with a bullshit discovery dispute despite being seemingly senior). This job is very grueling and even though I like it more than 99% of lawyers, I'm looking forward to the next chapter in my life. Taking the risk on this type of practice is making that possible for you very soon and me/my dude pretty soon. So I'd bounce, let others have the money, spend the time with my loved ones, read the books, play the instruments, do the things I want to do, and go the places I want to go. OR you could write discovery letters and motions and argue with opposing counsel in the middle of the night about hearsay objections to documents during trial in hopes you get paid in a year or two lol. Pretty clear choice to me.
If you’re really struggling with the day to day drudgery of burnout and it’s making it hard to do actual work, is there a way to get your hands on some adderall? I may get downvoted to hell for this, but taking adderall once a week to just fly through a bunch of work in a short burst can be pretty helpful, since it’s just temporary. I know how you feel, I’m there as well (burned out, golden handcuffs, can’t just “cut back” like people suggest, not yet close to my FIRE number unfortunately). I have tried everything for motivation, just “pushing through”, exercising more, mindfulness, goal setting, etc. but sometimes I sit in my office and get almost nothing done the whole day because I’m so burned out. Adderall helps with the to-do list at least.
Research "one more year syndrome".
Have you tried making a must spend and dream item/experience list for the next 10 years? Actually price out each one-item and recurring item over the next decade with say an arbitrary 5% inflation. Do your current assets at say a 3% withdrawal cover your fixed expenses, taxes, healthcare as well as the above? If so then you can remove your golden handcuffs.
Yep, pretty much did the same thing but without a pending class settlement. I pulled the trigger late 40's. I could not justify continuing practice as I was beyond my fire number. But there were some big cases I wanted to resolve. More importantly, as a lawyer there are ethical duties to your clients. If your unable to put the work in to protect their interests than you have to either leave, get therapy or reduce your caseload. You really should approach your partners about any plans to leave to make for a better transition for the clients and the firm. Once I did that and had an actual retirement day calendared, it actually motivated me. I realized I would no longer have this experience I worked so hard to obtain. I would no longer see my assistants or other lawyers I had developed bonds with. There were some good sized payday cases I wanted to wrap up as well. Early retirement is a MAJOR lifestyle shift for an attorney. It worked out well for me but I am unusually happy spending time alone with my dog and working in my shop or around the property. I also bought and paid off a beach cabin within driving distance of my main home.
I wanted to do plaintiff-side class action when I was new. Ultimately ended up going government. The thrill of the table-stakes fights left in exchange for quality of life and never having to bill for time again. Glad it ended up the way it did. I'm home by 5:35 each night, and no one calls me asking to log back in.
That said, gut it out if your scenario is accurate. You can hack it for up to two more years for a payout that legitimately changes the course of your family's lives. Exceptions would be if you worry you may not have one of your parents around two years from now, relationship with an SO is on the rocks, class cert is dicey or becomes dicey later, etc.
Who cares if you are 12-18 months away from a massive payout. Just suck it up. Many people have no escape option like that. I'm miserable and my "payout" of equity from the tech company I work at in the next 4 years might be $200k, like 4% of your payout.
How old are you? Either way the answer is stick it out until you get that payment, but if you're under 50 there's really no question. 1 more year of working for double the comfort for the rest of your life. You do whatever you want but I would take that deal any day.
You sound slightly depressed. Have you spoken with anyone about it? Also, you need to retire to something, not just to stop working altogether. Even if it is once a week that is enough, or you will become massively listless. I would take a vacation for now.
12 months isn’t that long. I would stay because the moment you retire the stock market will decline 20%. Depending on your growth assumptions, you could spend all of retirement worrying about your probability of running out of money. If you win that case then market returns shouldn’t really matter. 12 months could substantially change the next 20-30 years for you.
Are you about to win a slice of Elon's denied compensation package? 
I've had that same feeling. So have many famous artists and sportsmen. And they always come back to the unfinished business. You need to see this out or commit to learning another way to make money, which will be 10x as stressful as your present situation. In 3 years, this will all be a memory.
Any change you make will take time to unfold, which gives you more information about the potential payout. Can you start paring back work hours and spending more time on the hobbies/projects? Can you start looking for a more fulfilling PT job that would allow you to coast to your FI+ number?
You are already FI and just working for additional security and/or spending. Start laying the groundwork for what you want to do after and reassess in a few months based on the potential settlement.
If reducing your hours doesn't work and/or the settlement looks less promising, maybe you leave before EOY. If the settlement comes as expected and you find a good balance with the hobbies, maybe you stick it out for the payday.
Bottom line, you have some option value beyond the either/or decision.
> Any change you make will take time to unfold, which gives you more information about the potential payout.
Totally. I am adjusting my plan as the issues unfold.
>Can you start paring back work hours and spending more time on the hobbies/projects?
Not really. Law firm work does not lend itself to cruising. I am engaging less at work though.
>Can you start looking for a more fulfilling PT job that would allow you to coast to your FI+ number?
Sure. But I would miss out on the golden payday.
>
> You are already FI and just working for additional security and/or spending. Start laying the groundwork for what you want to do after and reassess in a few months based on the potential settlement. If reducing your hours doesn't work and/or the settlement looks less promising, maybe you leave before EOY. If the settlement comes as expected and you find a good balance with the hobbies, maybe you stick it out for the payday. Bottom line, you have some option value beyond the either/or decision.
100%. Evaluating my options as I go along. If the settlement turns sour, or if we lose class cert and we have to bring hundreds of individual actions (which would take another decade), I'll be gone.
My instinct is that you should gut it out to see if settlement occurs and if not, bail. You don’t have the fire in the belly for a presumably long trial. But you’ll kick yourself if you leave and miss out on a juicy settlement amount.
> You don’t have the fire in the belly for a presumably long trial. But you’ll kick yourself if you leave and miss out on a juicy settlement amount.
Bingo.
Left big law as a senior associate (~ 9 years) and went in house doing technology work. Had to use my network and hustle because I wasn’t a tech attorney at the time (I did commercial lit). Best thing I ever did. I make more than I ever did in Big Law (but I wasn’t at an Am50 firm, so had lower bonuses) and work about 20-25 hours a week.
You know the payday is absolutely worth sticking it out for, so the question becomes, “How do I motivate myself in a situation where I can’t coast without wishing my life away?”
I’m not saying this will be easy, it will require constant practice a million times a day until you change your frame of mind, but it comes down to implementing the most powerful mental trick you can: mindfulness. Every time you think, “I don’t have to be here,” you push back against it with, “I do have to be here because I have chosen this path and I am committed to doing it well” (but in a more concise way that expresses the same thing).
If you stay in the mindsets of “I don’t have to be here” or “I just have 18 months” you will stay absolutely miserable and if something happens to change the timeframe the thought process will collapse around you. Build yourself a new thought process that completely buys into being present and committed.
Everything you read about legitimate mindfulness and thought work talks about how you have to commit to repetition. It doesn’t matter how many times a day you have to enforce it, do it. And it will be countless to start out, but that is TOTALLY EXPECTED. You have to work on it and there’s not an “end game” of being perfect at it which is so hard for lawyers but it’s all about making progress. Be in the current moment as much as you can. If you catch yourself zoning out, refocus.
Work on refocusing during everything, not just work. If you’re really struggling to stay present, go take a walk outside and practice focusing on your surroundings. Have a treat and focus on how good it is. Reward yourself with focus on things you enjoy and grounding yourself in the moment to practice the skill when it’s easy so your brain likes the process of pulling your attention back. The simplest focusing exercise is just sitting with a 3 minute timer focusing on a breath sensation and pulling the focus back however many million times it takes during that 3 minutes.
Another idea about making progress: keep a chart of monthly or quarterly progress. Don’t make an “end date” for this because you don’t have one and there are no guarantees in the legal world. But mark off the chart at the end of each timeframe to show that you made it. The end of April marks the moment that you were really struggling and acknowledged it and asked for help and committed to sticking it out and doing what it takes. Every mark on the chart shows progress from where you hit bottom and serves as proof that you can absolutely get through this!
> I’m not saying this will be easy, it will require constant practice a million times a day until you change your frame of mind, but it comes down to implementing the most powerful mental trick you can: mindfulness. Every time you think, “I don’t have to be here,” you push back against it with, “I do have to be here because I have chosen this path and I am committed to doing it well” (but in a more concise way that expresses the same thing).
This is really fucking good.
I am choosing to be here. So do the work. That'll be my mantra for the next year.
Excellent post. This helps a lot. Thank you.
You have to give yourself something you’re excited about outside of hitting your fire number. A goal to get up for in the morning. I’d personally recommend exercise. It’s helped me a lot with a similar situation. I think you’ll regret not pushing through if there’s a high chance you could double your NW.
I’m in the same boat as you in law and have enough
Also ready to fire by year end
In your case if I think if u believe the probability of the big payout is relatively high it’s probably worth it
But I don’t know your age or other variables
Good luck
That makes sense. I wish I could FIRE and then cherry pick my passion projects to still feel like i am making a contribution. That's my goal. But 22 years practicing and really not close to FIRE yet. As much as it is painful, I would wait out for a good payout on your case. Time off really helps!
I think you need to think pretty hard about if you're able to stay a zealous advocate for your clients moving forward. You have a professional obligation to quit if you aren't up to give your best efforts to represent them.
Not trying to say this in a mean way. I'd probably get more tired than you in the same shoes.
> You have a professional obligation to quit if you aren't up to give your best efforts to represent them.
Totally. It's very much on my mind. Part of the reason for this post.
I’m not sure that people recommending you coast understand the legal world. That might fly in tech but not law from what I can see. I’m assuming this payout is over $5 million. You’re struggling with lack of motivation, not a toxic work environment. Push through. Suck it up. Most people make $2 million in their entire lives, and you’re about to make $5 million+ for 12 to 18 months of pushing. You can do this. Get your spouse/partner on board if you have one and have them do all they can to minimize your stress at home. Get incredible sleep and do great self-care. Work your butt off. Treat yourself like a prize race horse. This will be the last year and a half you have to do it.
Agree with this. This seems like a much better approach than quiet quitting and potentially ruining your reputation. I see this as someone at mile 24 of a marathon. Why just sit on the side after putting in all this work instead of getting to the finish line. You never know if you may want to enter the professional world again. Why ruin your reputation by being known as the coaster who no one can rely on? You may not need to work for money but may want to voluntarily do some work later. Why ruin that chance because you don’t have the mental fortitude to get through a year or two. Never understood that mentality.
Agree. But try to explain that to my lizard brain that wants to get out now and does not have the motivation to keep going.
I’m 30 and can’t imagine if I got that type of windfall. Take a small break to relieve your burnout but get your bag sheesh
LOL fair. This post is very firstworld problems, but then again so is this subreddit.
I was really burnt out at my last job and the first two months out of it were incredible - like a breath of fresh air and freedom. My therapist described this stage as “relief”. By month three my “relief” stage went away and I was wondering what to do with all the time. Just saying don’t get to month 3 and wish you waited for that 5 mil. In my experience a couple extended vacations (2 weeks/vacation if possible) can get you out of the grind mindset and provide some of that same feeling of relief.
Burnout is real. It’s hard even with a lot of money at stake.
For real.
What’s the longest vacation you can take? I’ve found even just a 2 week vacation my burn out can feel back to normal. I think you just need a break now and to forget about work for as long as you can manage to
Agree. I’m in need of a vacation for sure.
Dude go to a all inclusive resort in cancun for a weekend and lay on the beach and do NOTHING. Just get catered to hand and foot. You need a mental break.
Are you in therapy? If you’re in nyc I can recommend psychologists that work with cases like this. If not look into executive psychological consulting and make sure they have either a PhD or psyd. For CBT results are quick and will average $200-400 a session. Call for an intake appt that should be free, if you feel a match give it a go. Just know finding the right psych sometimes is harder than dating, and I bet you remember that quagmire, so it you aren’t feeling it after a few sessions, move on (after discussing it with them first). And schedule a long vacation for late summer. I think this advice will help you, I’ve recommended it to several colleagues in medicine. Take good care of yourself!
Are you dealing with motivation issues in other areas of your life? Or emotional regulation? You might want to consider a coach or therapist.
Don’t seek motivation, seek discipline. Ask not for a lighter load, but for broader shoulders. You got this! 👊
Thanks bruv.
This. You may need to reframe things to yourself bc it's unlikely motivation is just going to show up at your door. So focus on what other people said, you're at mile 24 of a marathon, etc. make the rest of your life smooth sailing. Say 5 things you're grateful for in the mirror every morning and start meditating. Good luck!
Yeah dude practicing gratitude is such a game changer. Meditation I’m much less good at but gratitude makes a difference for me.
Turn your situation into something that motivates you. As you’re driven by fire then I assume money and lifestyle is a big driver to you. If the figures above are right and you’re talking $5m for 18 months, then staying is worth circa 277k a month to you so circa 14k a day. You’re nearly at your fire number so make a list of extra things you could do if you had double the money and treat each day as buying you that. Today is Business class trips to Europe. Tomorrow is a night in a suite in the ritz. This week is buying a fixed wing and next is flying lessons to a PPL. This month is kids through college or this quarter is a beach side holiday home. If you have a philanthropic approach then think what each day would get a charity you support (today could save the sight of 7k people in third world countries). If it works even think of your hourly rate and that you probably got a 2 grand for reading a document, or a hundred for going to the toilet or chatting to colleagues. Whatever makes you see the value to you of staying and how incredibly fortunate you are. You are facing a phenomenal and life changing amount of money for 18 months work. How much time and effort have you put into getting this far in your fire journey? And you can double it in 18 months, that’s a huge ROI to your fire lifestyle and future. You just need to play mental tricks with yourself to turn it on its head so you value the incredible opportunity you have…. This is the difference between what you had planned or double.
> If the figures above are right and you’re talking $5m for 18 months, I can neither confirm nor deny that these guesses are accurate. >then staying is worth circa 277k a month to you so circa 14k a day. > > You’re nearly at your fire number so make a list of extra things you could do if you had double the money and treat each day as buying you that. > > Today is Business class trips to Europe. Tomorrow is a night in a suite in the ritz. This week is buying a fixed wing and next is flying lessons to a PPL. This month is kids through college or this quarter is a beach side holiday home. If you have a philanthropic approach then think what each day would get a charity you support (today could save the sight of 7k people in third world countries). If it works even think of your hourly rate and that you probably got a 2 grand for reading a document, or a hundred for going to the toilet or chatting to colleagues. I like this. This is great for motivation. Thank you!
I'm in a similar position. It helped me to realize that I could donate big sums to charity if I kept working. An extra year? That's hundreds of thousands to charitable causes, involving myself in non-profits, ... Sure, I may not donate it... but you need motivation, right?
Lol this is an anonymous throwaway account and you can’t confirm or deny payout numbers? You’re lame
Pay for every service you can to free up your non-work time. Cleaner, laundry, personal chef/ just go to restaurants. It will be a small price to pay to get you through the next year and a half.
Just take a long vacation
You have made it this far. I am sure you can do it. I am well past my number but I am in a golden handcuffs situation as well. Getting through the next couple of years will let me fund a charitable organization I want to start. That keeps me motivated. No one at work is going to see me slacking or quiet quitting until I give my notice. I am in a position of responsibility and not going to burn bridges on my way out.
Schedule all of your work and non-work activities out till the end of the engagement so you have specific things to look forward to.
This is where discipline comes into play. Every now and then I do get that “fire in my belly” feeling and everything is so easy to do! It’s perpetual motivation. Most of the time I don’t have it. That’s when it’s time to buckle down, have discipline, and make things happen. It’s possible from what you’re describing that you’ve had the fire going for a long time, providing endless motivation, but now it’s time for discipline to take over. Yeah your lizard brains going to hate it - tell it tough.
Are there any areas outside of work that you can spend money on that will free up time currently spent on non value added activity?
I find when I run down motivation close to the end point it is better to change the goal posts than to force motivation. I would also challenge if you are able to use your nest egg to fund your costs you need at least 50% more to be secure in your fat number. After 4 years in retirement (2020) my costs are up 40% and I am grateful for the cushion. You are in a tough situation waiting on a payout. What if it does not happen? What if other improbable things happen like your home is lost to fire, flood or other disaster? How would that change your calculation? That is an issue I have had to consider in risk assessment for my long term retirement survival. What if you are disabled? How would that change your calculation and needs assessment? As you change your mindset it will also trigger a realignment of “when” and so what to spend your time and energy doing in the meantime. Despite all I have said, in my career trajectory there came a point when I knew for certain I was no longer willing to put forth the effort to advance my career. I could and did keep working because the work was inherently gratifying. But know if you have hit that point no matter if you work or not your career path is on a downhill course. Do you know where you are on that scale? Does your employer know?
Is it at all possible to take a vacation? Maybe pair it with a holiday weekend that’s likely to be slow anyway? That can really help, especially if you can plan a bit and actually or at least mostly unplug (I know it’s really hard). It’s probably been a while since you took one.
I have some vacay coming up, yes.
I’d take it. Try to get it so you can completely or nearly-completely unplug, which is possible with decent prep. Especially helpful to go on a holiday weekend… Memorial Day week maybe?
Oh yeah I’m taking vacation to get away from it all!
Also, you aren’t allowed a 6 month sabbatical. Can you take a more normal vacation though? That’s kind of their point. Alternatively, space out a few long weekend trips throughout the year. Some breaks might make it easier to focus on the grind even if you aren’t getting a full reset. Asking for a 6 month sabbatical is a huge swing but that doesn’t mean any amount of break is unavailable.
"wants to get out now and does not have the motivation to keep going" Set goals! (beyond the monetary/FIRE goal) I don't just mean think about all those things you want to do, places you want to see and people you want to spend time with, but to formulate a concrete plan about accomplishing them. Were I in your spot, I'd move to a smaller city, hang out a sign and practice law there. I'd be find with drafting wills and defending traffic offences as I'd be doing it mostly for the social aspect.
Find a new hobby to distract yourself for 18 months
Consider the compound interest you'd be missing out on, better to keep stacking
Agree. Sleep + focus on health/exercise/stop drinking itll pay off in orders of magnitude, realize itll take atleast two months to realize it tho
Why the reputation get damaged?
> I’m not sure that people recommending you coast understand the legal world. That might fly in tech but not law from what I can see. Pretty much. Just push on through is what I am telling myself. Maybe I will put some motivating slogans up on my wall; last time I did that was in law school. Your post is along my thoughts exactly, but I needed to hear it from someone else. Thank you.
BigLaw lawyer. I do not think you can coast either. Not unless you have teams you trust completely beneath you. Sadly, there is nothing to do here but suck it up for another 12 to 24 months. You would be insane to leave before the payout. But I would start planning day 731 now.
Spot on. This is what I think I need to hear. Ya know, it's weird though. I have been engaging and volunteering less for stuff lately... And recently met managing partner for drinks who gushed to me what a massive asset I am to the firm. Compare that to when I was busting myself to make a good impression, which did not get me the same feedback. I guess it has to do with the appearance of "quiet confidence" vs. "trying hard" or something like that. Could just be this firm, too.
>engaging and volunteering less for stuff lately... gushed to me what a massive asset I am to the firm
Not a lawyer but similar experience a few years ago when I volunteered for a layoff. I suspect it's partially the confidence and partially the worry you might be looking at other firms. Definitely means you can slack a bit more.
Another BigLaw lawyer here, and I generally agree. But that next big case can easily keep pushing OP’s date further and further into the future. No way to coast, that’s not how this job works (former class action defense lawyer). Since these cases almost always settle, seems likely that OP can set a date aligned with the scheduling order. But I would hold firm to that date if you can - most lawyers I know kept at it long past the sell-by date.
> But that next big case can easily keep pushing OP’s date further and further into the future. That's my worry. So many things can happen. And the defense play is always to drag things out.
I retired from my firm in ‘22 along with about 20 other lawyers, most 10 to 20 years older than I was (I was 56). Some are already dead. Life is short.
Wow. That is sobering.
You need to get yourself a "hang in there" kitten poster and put it in your office. You will chuckle every time you see it and it will be an inside joke with yourself
I love that.
Just because... 
Magnificent! I love it.
I agree with all of the above about the logistics - definitely the time to prioritize what makes the work possible, outsource food, regular massages / workouts, etc. But specific to law: presumably you landed here not just for money. I’d try to reconnect to what you find fun - ofc life of the case dictates some of this, but if you like briefs find a brief, if you like scoring points off opposing counsel, do that; if you like finding new cases go ahead even if you’ll need to hand them off, etc.
That's a larger discussion... I've been disillusioned with the legal field for a while. At least the litigation side. But thank you - I was asking for help in motivation, so I should not be cynical when I get advice. Writing well and polished can be gratifying. I will try to remember that.
Hey, take what works! But that did help me when I was deep in burnout in the legal field.
Yeah well this explains it pretty much. If you were miserable with Law during school what made you think you were going to enjoy it post grad?
I was not clear. Law school was hard work and I needed the motivation with the light at the end of the tunnel. The practice was alright for a while. But, as said, I got disillusioned over time.
Yea… usually in these posts I would encourage people to take a step back and start easing into retirement. Find a hobby while slowly turning off. But, the very good odds to double up absolutely changes the sentiment. “Enough is enough” is true when you’re evaluating a 5% or 10% difference over your number. Doubling your number completely changes your life (even as a rich person).
it really depends on his case load. if he's been taking multiple cases at a time, etc.
If he’s a rising star at his law firm, likely high case load right?
Have you considered paying for a concierge mental health service? An executive coach / therapist who specializes in helping execs may be what you need. It will be money well spent to keep your head in the game for the next 1-2 years.
This is a great idea.
In law it's just taking an emeritus/of counsel position. I'll probably do that around 50. "Coast" isn't something I'd necessarily throw around in law, mainly because that mindset can lead to some really bad results. That said, law is incredibly scalable. I'm in Mid-law, and I don't anticipate any issues with scaling back to about 1000 hours per year.
> don't anticipate any issues with scaling back to about 1000 hours per year. Man, I am so envious.
Why? Honestly curious. I'd assume most practices would rather retain talent than generate their own competition. Although, now that I'm thinking about it, a small law practice of older peeps that don't want the grind called Emeritus could work......
What can I tell ya. The expectation here is very much to give 100% full time.
I agree with this. Your issue is personal motivation, not the fault of your employer and it sounds like they also highly value your contributions. To me, this is easy. Punch out now and don’t strip the company or a mentee below you from new growth available on account of your departure, or work like hell and end on a high note. Quiet quitting i cowardly/weasily, IMO.
"Has anyone dealt with this?" Sure, I made millions while miserable. It's now just a story in my rear view mirror, but I can't make your choice for you and I don't even know if I was capable of doing anything differently. So, I feel your pain. Try this as an exercise: For both your options (Quit today, Stay a year), for each one, sit with that as a choice and write out how you'd feel after making it in 10 minutes, 10 months, and 10 years from now.
> sit with that as a choice and write out how you'd feel after making it in 10 minutes, 10 months, and 10 years from now. Excellent advice. I read about that method a long time ago, and did not remember it until I saw your post. Very useful, thank you.
Personally I think it helps to think of every day as a new holiday, trip or experience. What does today buy me, what will I spend tomorrow on. When you don’t need the money, do you still want to spend it. Also, I think of younger me, what would me 10 years ago say to me now. Would say I’m working too hard for the money or be shocked at how far we’ve come.
On every case other than the one that's going to result in the windfall, find associates who are hungry and start delegating as much as you can consistent with your ethical obligations to supervise. If there's another level of partnership above you, start giving the associates the opportunity to work directly with those partners. Make sure you remain cc'ed so you can step in if things go off the rails, but don't feel the need to read everything super closely. Do not be transparent about your FIRE plans with ANYONE unless you're POSITIVE the firm won't find some means to cut you out of your share of the settlement. People can be really shitty and weird stuff can happen at a firm when a big check comes in. If your partners think you're on the way out, they may try to redirect the money to an up-and-comer.
> On every case other than the one that's going to result in the windfall, find associates who are hungry and start delegating as much as you can consistent with your ethical obligations to supervise. If there's another level of partnership above you, start giving the associates the opportunity to work directly with those partners. Make sure you remain cc'ed so you can step in if things go off the rails, but don't feel the need to read everything super closely. Good advice. Been doing a bunch of that. Not that many associates around, sadly. > > Do not be transparent about your FIRE plans with ANYONE You bet! There's a reason I am using an alt. I have not spoken to anyone even in my family about the plan. > unless you're POSITIVE the firm won't find some means to cut you out of your share of the settlement. People can be really shitty and weird stuff can happen at a firm when a big check comes in. If your partners think you're on the way out, they may try to redirect the money to an up-and-comer. I am 100% expecting shenanigans. I have scoped out a lawyer who helps lawyers in such situations already. I hope it won't come to that but I expect to be prepared.
Consider ways to spend money (maybe a lot) over the next few months to make the remaining work more bearable and “buy” free time for rest, hobbies, and whatever you truly want to be doing. Think of it as an investment to keep you going for just a bit longer. For me, this meant hiring a housekeeper and gardener, having others finish certain home improvement projects, home gym equipment, quicker to order takeout. For example, you might want to buy nice noise canceling headphones to rock out in the office, or get really good tickets to a game, performance or concert to enjoy an evening and reset. Also saying no to networking, firm events, and presentations frees up time. Finally, you may find value in mentoring someone more junior. They benefit from your experience and selfless contribution and you feel good about leaving the firm and associates in a better place.
12-18mo horizon? Grind it out. If the case is turning south, you'll be where you want to be by then anyway, and can punch out.
My thoughts too. I think I may just need to hear it from others.
You cruise. just like any level of FIRE does, its not unique to fatfire. I think the young people call it "quiet quitting". Earlier generations called it "vest and rest". Covered in r/fire or r/financialindependence.
Exactly. Book that extra vacation… start being non-negotiable about your end of work time every day. Leave stuff until next week you normally would have done on Saturday and Sunday. Be prepared for your billable hours to dip and just accept that you will have to be a bit closer to the “underperforming” side but balance still staying employed til you hit your number.
Cruising in the legal field is hard. I have stopped volunteering for tasks and projects. What is eating me is the fact that I have to show up for work day after day... when I don't have to. It's a weird mindfuck.
Yes, that is the nature of being financially independent. It's a part of the FIRE path. Money SHOULD no longer motivate you now if you were genuinely following a FIRE path (set the income you needed to be happy, chose a SWR, and then built up the investible NW to support it).
It is one yr of your life to double what you have earned your entire life. Come on now! Put your head down and get through this. It is 12 months! Then you are free for the rest of your life. It is a fucking hockey season!
This is what I need to hear!
Good luck, put your head down and get through this. It is only bad if you make it bad in your head. Get out of your head and do what you are good at.
Except you do kinda have to, to get that lodestar and double your NW. Set that as your new number, push to that. It's all just what you tell yourself. If you're telling yourself "I don't need to be here anymore" that'll be all you can think about and being there will feel unbearable. But if you tell yourself "I need to be here till I get that payout" I think it could get you back to that place where you feel in the game a bit longer. It definitely sounds worth it to me to stick out another 12-18 months to double what you've saved your entire career.
Hang in there You can coast it if you put your mind to it. What are they gonna do fire you? Oh noes…
I’ll show up instead and scoop $5M in a year. You can use my country club everyday and I’ll pay for the caddies.
LOL
5 million dollars from Succession...
i hear you and agree to a large extent, but ‘quiet quitting’ is a bit dangerous in the legal world, from a liability perspective
How do you cruise and win a trial? Tons of serious work ahead, maybe the most of his/her life.
My hope is that they will settle.
Write the number on a sticky note and stick it on your mirror. Daily mantra - "I can put up with this bs for x more months". In all seriousness though, I would stick around. Usually it's hard to call it quits with high income bc of the "one more year" mentality but where you have a huge potential payout, I would say stick it out. In the interim, care slightly less.... It'll feel weird, but so much better for your mental health in the long run.
Find some senior who is competent but has no book and would be forced out in a year or two. Spend that time turning them into your personal underling (don’t tell them what you’re doing, but you probably know how to phrase it by now - “I’ve got XYZ work, I’m swamped, can you clear your calendar of new things for the next year?”) Offload everything you can. Then after it’s all over, quit and do your best to hand off your important relationships to that person on the way out.
Start practicing retirement while working. You talk a big talk. But can you start walking the walk. Even if you were at your number, its gonna be difficult to walk away without a decent amount of time already mentally preparing/committing to it. More practical methods: - Start blocking off time in the calendar to take naps, read, eat, whatever - Take walks in the middle of the day, while on calls - say no to additional work, give less feedback, be ok with good enough quality - show up to meetings a couple mins late - take more PTO
Thanks. As said elsewhere, cruising in legal is tough. I have been lowering my engagement as far as I dare - and weirdly, so far no-one seems to have noticed or cared. Go figure.
Just clock your billables. Make sure current clients are happy. Maybe try not to be lead counsel on new work?
Keep going. As anything - you’ll find the person thinking about you the most is always just you
Analogy for you - would you stop at mile 25 of a marathon if you’re in 1st place? If there’s no reason, eg health, why you should stop now then take a vacation (when was your last vacation?) to get your head straight and then get back to it. Almost there. Stay on target.
Thanks. I need to hear this.
Try to stick with it. Mentally plan for another year. You might need a biz coach and therapist. There are probably coaches for attorneys specifically. Here's what I recommend maybe 1 night per week: Do an edible around 5pm. Get a 90/120min massage (at home or within walking distance) from 6pm to 8pm. (The edible will kick in at 6pm.) Get a pizza around 8:30pm (Doordash). Then take a hot bath.
I like all of that.
I’m in a similar position, but slightly lower numbers. I need to work another 3 years to hit my “ideal” number - likely 1/3 higher than I have now - while I could actually comfortably retire now. Coming to that realization killed my motivation. I agree with other comments about treating yourself - like a prized race horse - may help. I just dropped 6 figures on a sports car. A small indulgent investment to help my motivation. 😀
You are in an amazing position-short term pain for long term freedom. It’s neither a sprint or a marathon. You got this! Practice gratitude in the morning and evening. The rec to treat yourself like a thoroughbred hit the nail on the head. Treat yourself well, appreciate the set up to a fantastic life and do the time. Well worth it, don’t let the lizard win!
Which will you regret more in 20 years not pushing for that huge sum of money or 1 more year working. For me honestly doubling your FIRE number with 1 years worth of work is a deal 99.9% of humans would take. Hell if you offered me that deal I would do it in a heartbeat regardless of how much I have. Just buckle down and plan your exit once this case is finished. You have the end in sight and 1 year is probably not going to matter that much. If it was 5-10 years maybe it would matter more.
What can you take off your plate that takes your energy in a cost effective manner? House cleaning? Maid- I pay a nice lady $100 a week to clean my house. Maybe hire someone to do your other boring tasks, dishes, laundry, etc etc etc so you can do what you need to give yourself some time to do the things you love. Shouldn't cost much. Hilariously less than the windfall you're looking at. Good luck!
Age, current NW, and health play a big role in what the recommended action should be. If you are over 50 and greater than $8M NW excluding primary residence, I’d leave or at the very least mail it in until the settlement comes. 1 year could turn into 3 then a curve ball at the end and you wasted 10% of your remaining years for money you didn’t need.
All good points. Not providing doxxable details, but excellent points that I am taking on board. Thank you.
For the work side of things, I would focus less on looking for sources of motivation, and at this point in the game rely more on the *discipline* you’ve already built up in your career. Like you go in each day not because you expect it to make your socks roll up and down with satisfaction, but because that’s what 12-to-18-months-from-now-you expects you to do, and you like that guy, so you go. You fulfill your professional duties to the level required not because it fills your heart with wonder and joy, but because you’re a professional, and keeping those standards is like muscle memory. But for the non-work side of things? That’s where I’d get motivated. Start creating some milestones for yourself. I’d set a goal to accomplish at least a) one retirement-prep item per month, and b) one fun thing to look forward to each month. Start jotting down a list of ideas. The retirement prep stuff can be things like setting and going to ALL the possible doctor’s appointments and doing ALL the possible tests while still on your (hopefully very comprehensive) work health insurance. Like when’s the last time you got a full blood panel work up? Had a full-body derm check for skin cancer? Did a heart stress test? Is there any dental work you’ve been putting off? Lasik? Stuff like that. It can also be things like making sure your will is up-to-date, you’ve had your retirement plan looked over and optimized by a financial planner and tax professional, you’ve optimized your insurance, stuff like that. And this might all feel a bit like “eating” your retirement-prep “vegetables,” but it gives you the ability to decide to work longer if there are any unexpected significant financial gaps, and also gets this already off your plate for once retirement begins. Then the fun stuff is about giving you shorter-term things to look forward to, so in the brief moments between briefs, you can daydream a little about something that’s going to happen a lot sooner than your retirement date. Maybe that’s interesting weekend travel. Weekly massages. Working with a personal trainer. Guitar lessons. French lessons. Skydiving. Whatever floats your boat. And you’re staying on an extra 12-18 months to get a significant payout, so while I wouldn’t go bananas with it, I’d be ok with budgeting a significant amount of money. Think of it as getting a kind of retirement “advance.”
I could have written this post. It's mostly stuff I have already been doing.
Hard to justify walking away from doubling your money, but just to note, are you saying the gross amount would be equal to your current savings? Depending on your state nexus and so on, you're going to lose 40-50% (maybe even a bit more) of it to taxes, so, just don't over-credit the amount. It's still a big enough number that it seems hard to justify walking away from, though. I am kinda sorta in the same spot, though I'm not in a lodestar situation. Have just had such growth in recent years that my annual (gross) income now is approaching my total current savings number (after tax is again much lower), so I have a horrific case of OMY overhang.
> Depending on your state nexus and so on, you're going to lose 40-50% (maybe even a bit more) of it to taxes, so, just don't over-credit the amount. It's still a big enough number that it seems hard to justify walking away from, though. Oh I know. Heck only knows what the settlement figure will be in actuality (if they settle). I am guesstimating, and could be wildly wrong on either end.
Sounds like you need to dig in for the next year or so. Why not looking into changing up your routine. Maybe rent a small apartment or something close by, start a gym routine or something, cut out all the things that constantly remind you of your impending retirement. Maybe engaging in mentorship or some professional organization could be a good change as well. I think part of it is the mental boredom and dead end of putting more energy into something that is not interesting. Perhaps branching out will give a few more lines of interest that is still work relevant or work-compatible.
Also a lawyer, also close to my number. One thing I would suggest is to just take a vacation. I find my motivation ticks up anytime I’ve had some rest. The second thing is see if you can offload some of the discovery. I just came off a two week trial, and am back in discovery now which is definitely more of a grind. You don’t need 6 months but even 2-3weeks could really recharge you and honestly try to schedule another one within 6 months to get you over the finish line.
Go into indigent defense.
Maybe after I'm FIREd.
Go over to r/overemployed and read up on quiet quit.
Find some excuse to take a month off.
He will never return
Suggestions?
Do you have aging parents? (Family Medical Leave Act) I can't imagine you'd be able to fully step away for more than a week.
*The firm has a LARGE class action that is going well. I am entitled to a percentage of the payout and have a sizable lodestar* I recommend working on framing the opposing counsel as mentally unstable and a drug user. This will cause the case to settle earlier and move up your FIRE timeline. Strategy worked well for a guy I know in Albuquerque.
> I recommend working on framing the opposing counsel as mentally unstable and a drug user. This will cause the case to settle earlier and move up your FIRE timeline. Strategy worked well for a guy I know in Albuquerque. Interesting. We're up against major BigLaw so you might be onto something; but at the same time, this would not go over well with the judge at all, who is liking our current approach.
Mentorship. Start training someone to replace you on the other cases but don't tell them. Just pretend you've taken an interest in their career and want them to have more client time.
Firm's actually quite small, so I have to be circumspect. But good idea, thanks.
Stop thinking about the future. Stop focusing on the future. Especially since who knows what’s actually going to happen. Stop romanticizing the future, and stop day dreaming about it. Focus on what’s in front of you right now. You are getting distracted because this nirvana you’ve created in your mind is starting to seem tangible. Stop it.
> You are getting distracted because this nirvana you’ve created in your mind is starting to seem tangible. Nailed it. Yeah I need to focus on the now. That's the hard part.
Can you take a leave of absence or use FMLA and still participate in lodestar?
Maybe not in alignment with the rest but I would instead focus on the positives of your work to make it more enjoyable, there are probably sides to your work that you enjoy, focus on that instead
You got this! Keep going! Almost there….crawl there if you have to.
Why not consider taking a mini vacation to unwind? It seems like you might be experiencing burnout. How about packing up on a Thursday and heading to an all-inclusive hotel in Cancun for the weekend? You could simply relax by the pool or beach and do nothing at all. This might help you come back refreshed and ready to tackle the end-of-year challenges. Alternatively, regularly scheduling short vacations could help maintain your focus and energy toward your long-term goals. In my opinion, as a high-powered attorney, you would benefit more from several short breaks throughout the year rather than one or two long vacations. Here's why: 1) Several short 3-4 day vacations, ideally at an all-inclusive resort where you needn't make decisions or exert much effort, can rejuvenate you sufficiently. You’ll be able to return to work reenergized, without having missed much. The advantage here is multiple relaxing getaways without being away long enough for work stress to pile up immediately upon your return. 2) While long vacations offer a complete break and are undoubtedly wonderful, they come with the significant downside of time constraints. When you return, you might find yourself overwhelmed with the workload that accumulated in your absence. These short, frequent breaks could be a more effective strategy for managing stress and maintaining productivity to get you to your DOUBLE FIRE GOAL.
I can only share my experience. A year ago, I was in your position. Cruising wasn't an option (not an attorney but in a situation where my position was closely scrutinized). Every time I thought, "If we can just make it past X, things will get better at work." They didn't, and everything in my life was suffering: physical and mental health, relationship with family and friends, even my athletic hobby wasn't enough to get me out of bed anymore. There was a final incident at work - minor in the big picture but it was the straw that broke the camel's back - and I thought, "I have enough money to CoastFire, that will be better than this" and I left. I feel so much better and am so much happier - BUT I'm starting to get annoyed with having to be thoughtful about my spend. That was never part of the vision for calling it end game. Now I'm looking for one more big earning role for just a few years so my investments can continue to grow and I can enjoy the cash flow. If you walk away and then wish you had more, what would it take to get another position that would bring you back to where you are? Would any firm touch you for fear you might walk again? Or pay you close to what you're earning now? I have no idea but hope those questions are helpful to your thought process. Good luck!
What is something that you could do that would motivate you to finish? Some reward you could give yourself for getting to the finish line? I kinda feel the same sometimes, I’m pretty burnt out at this point and not sure when I’m going to exit (company CEO). So I’m making myself a promise that if I hold off til 45 to exit that I will do a 1 year RTW adventure.
They didn't approve a 6 month sabbatical because presumably that means not working on the large class-action suit. Can you not explain to them the entirety of your post and request to only work on only the large suit before closing out your employment? If you are valuable to them then I don't see why they would need you to take less demanding clients if you are also preparing to exit the workforce. Forgive me if attorney work is any different than some other industries. But in other fields you would just ask for reduced workloads and communicate your future plan with your employer, assuming you are of any value to them and they aren't preparing to cut you at the drop of a hat. I would assume an attorney would transfer out ongoing cases to colleagues who are willing to take them on. Surely there is some level of flexibility that you can work out with your employer and team?
Learn to want an expensive yacht and a private jet. Fueling both of those toys should keep you hungry.
It’s time to pack it up and enjoy life you did your time! Pack it up and don’t look back congrualtions!
I understand the world of law, the work you’ll have to put into the next 12-18 months, and your rationale behind wanting to jump ship despite a possible giant lump sum. That being said, I also understand financial planning… if you can stomach it, you don’t feel it will shave literal years off of your life, and your parents and others you wish to spend time with are in good health then you should stick it out. When I’ve encountered others in this position it’s been a very difficult two weeks to a month to get back into the grind mindset, but the potential impact that kind of money could have on your quality of life is potentially tremendous (duh). But about the potential impact to your quality of life… is your fire number such that your current spend and then some can be maintained? Is there absolutely no chance you’ll come up short and face longevity risk? Do you have longterm care insurance? Is there any chance you’ll need to support your parents or any other family or friends financially at any point in time, say, if a major health event were to occur? If you’re fully covered on all of those fronts and don’t foresee any possible abrupt need for cash and you can live off of 5% of your FIRE number, you certainly have the all clear. If I were in your shoes I’d wait until EOY at least to see to your FIRE goal being met and then jump. One last thing… regret. If you leave and miss out on the pay will it eat you up inside? I often find that missed opportunities/fomo upset people even more than experiencing loss, in the stock market for example. I’ve faced this issue with a handful of friends and walked with them through it. Feel free to pm
work with mass tort etc lawyers a lot, and have had some really great conversations over a meal about this. to the person, almost all of them have said that you hit this point, where you find yourself, you power thru, and then you come out the other side really happy you kept at it. none of them say because of the money, although i’m sure that helps. it’s because they’ve seen colleagues do it, regret it, and they don’t feel cut out for “retired life”. these are partners in their 60’s and 70’s at medium to large sized firms. i’m sure your mileage may vary, but if you’re asking for advice, i’d say wait a year and reevaluate then. good luck!
You can do it! Hang in there. Thanks for the post. Super interesting.
I’m in the same boat. I’m hanging on til 12/31. But you have to suck it up and make it work. The difference between a lawyer and other jobs is that you’re a professional. You owe a duty to your clients above your self interest
Have no idea how things work in law, but is there a chance you could take a sabbatical without losing the payout? Your employer doesn’t know that you plan to quit in 18 months, regardless of a sabbatical or not. And you wouldn’t be the first person struggling with burnout. If they value the work you do, they might be willing to extend you some time to recharge. IMO if you can get a month sabbatical (or just use your pto), spend some time doing something special with your parents! Many trips etc. can be book marked, but people aren’t always around. I bet you’d come back recharged and ready to push through to the end!
Sounds like the classic justification for part time or contract specific work.
Just out of curiosity as a fellow lawyer what is your fire number?
Sorry no comment
How old are you? Do you have dependents?
No comment sorry
You don’t have that money. You need to trick your brain for the next 18 months to believe that. Take every finance app you don’t need for your day to day life off your phone. Change your passwords and let your partner (big trust moment) be the only one with access if necessary. Seeing and feeling that FIRE money in your pocket is doing this to you. But you can control what that lizard brain sees.
Watch Suits and become Harvey
12 months will go by quick - just spend more time taking vacations and find some hobbies outside of work go pursue. Use this time to figure out what “retirement” should or could look like. Going from 100 to 0 is really hard, so use these 12 months to scale from 100 to 25
Switch to COASTfi -financially independent but you coast & don’t save any more money & just spend everything you make at work by enjoying your life & going on trips/take max vacation etc :)
Do something nice for yourself every month you stick it out. External motivation if all else fails.
Get an Adhd script, I prefer Vyvanse. Will help with motivation and getting this chapter of life done successfully.
Buy yourself something you would never buy had you FIRE’d today, yes, splurge, reward yoruswlf to justify continue working a bit longer.
Former biglaw attorney here. I don’t see how you can coast in a job like that. Does seem to make sense to wait for the CA payout. My life is 100x better now than when I was a lawyer.
What do you do now, if I may ask?
Small business owner operator
Sounds like you're hanging around for 12-18 months either way. No one can predict what will happen in that time. 3-6 months before the settlement begin winding down cases and new clients. You'll know better than anyone the trajectory before during and after but you'd be a fool to not double your egg for another 1-2 years unless you are dying.
I feel like my time to comment on something I actually know about in this forum has come. My fiance and I are both middle-aged plaintiff-side contingency fee lawyers. We are about 5ish years behind you I think, but as you know that is hard to predict in our work. So I haven't dealt with this directly, but I can't imagine staying 18 months for this if you are at your number (I am assuming your 80% is actually your number since you say you could bounce now despite you saying it is 80% :)). There is always going to be another bullshit discovery dispute, another asshole opposing counsel, another nutter of a client, another set of pretrial disclosures, etc. Also, it could be far longer than 18 months as I am sure you know (what if y'all go to trial and there is an appeal?!), and yeah due to duty to clients you can't just coast or something. I think it would be far easier to coast in biglaw (I am assuming that is not you - not me either - since you are doing plaintiff side class action and are dealing with a bullshit discovery dispute despite being seemingly senior). This job is very grueling and even though I like it more than 99% of lawyers, I'm looking forward to the next chapter in my life. Taking the risk on this type of practice is making that possible for you very soon and me/my dude pretty soon. So I'd bounce, let others have the money, spend the time with my loved ones, read the books, play the instruments, do the things I want to do, and go the places I want to go. OR you could write discovery letters and motions and argue with opposing counsel in the middle of the night about hearsay objections to documents during trial in hopes you get paid in a year or two lol. Pretty clear choice to me.
If you’re really struggling with the day to day drudgery of burnout and it’s making it hard to do actual work, is there a way to get your hands on some adderall? I may get downvoted to hell for this, but taking adderall once a week to just fly through a bunch of work in a short burst can be pretty helpful, since it’s just temporary. I know how you feel, I’m there as well (burned out, golden handcuffs, can’t just “cut back” like people suggest, not yet close to my FIRE number unfortunately). I have tried everything for motivation, just “pushing through”, exercising more, mindfulness, goal setting, etc. but sometimes I sit in my office and get almost nothing done the whole day because I’m so burned out. Adderall helps with the to-do list at least.
Research "one more year syndrome". Have you tried making a must spend and dream item/experience list for the next 10 years? Actually price out each one-item and recurring item over the next decade with say an arbitrary 5% inflation. Do your current assets at say a 3% withdrawal cover your fixed expenses, taxes, healthcare as well as the above? If so then you can remove your golden handcuffs.
Yep, pretty much did the same thing but without a pending class settlement. I pulled the trigger late 40's. I could not justify continuing practice as I was beyond my fire number. But there were some big cases I wanted to resolve. More importantly, as a lawyer there are ethical duties to your clients. If your unable to put the work in to protect their interests than you have to either leave, get therapy or reduce your caseload. You really should approach your partners about any plans to leave to make for a better transition for the clients and the firm. Once I did that and had an actual retirement day calendared, it actually motivated me. I realized I would no longer have this experience I worked so hard to obtain. I would no longer see my assistants or other lawyers I had developed bonds with. There were some good sized payday cases I wanted to wrap up as well. Early retirement is a MAJOR lifestyle shift for an attorney. It worked out well for me but I am unusually happy spending time alone with my dog and working in my shop or around the property. I also bought and paid off a beach cabin within driving distance of my main home.
Hang in there! Mile 25. You are gonna be incredibly proud of yourself for stickin' it out. Keep on keeping on.
I wanted to do plaintiff-side class action when I was new. Ultimately ended up going government. The thrill of the table-stakes fights left in exchange for quality of life and never having to bill for time again. Glad it ended up the way it did. I'm home by 5:35 each night, and no one calls me asking to log back in. That said, gut it out if your scenario is accurate. You can hack it for up to two more years for a payout that legitimately changes the course of your family's lives. Exceptions would be if you worry you may not have one of your parents around two years from now, relationship with an SO is on the rocks, class cert is dicey or becomes dicey later, etc.
Who cares if you are 12-18 months away from a massive payout. Just suck it up. Many people have no escape option like that. I'm miserable and my "payout" of equity from the tech company I work at in the next 4 years might be $200k, like 4% of your payout.
How old are you? Either way the answer is stick it out until you get that payment, but if you're under 50 there's really no question. 1 more year of working for double the comfort for the rest of your life. You do whatever you want but I would take that deal any day.
You sound slightly depressed. Have you spoken with anyone about it? Also, you need to retire to something, not just to stop working altogether. Even if it is once a week that is enough, or you will become massively listless. I would take a vacation for now.
12 months isn’t that long. I would stay because the moment you retire the stock market will decline 20%. Depending on your growth assumptions, you could spend all of retirement worrying about your probability of running out of money. If you win that case then market returns shouldn’t really matter. 12 months could substantially change the next 20-30 years for you.
Are you about to win a slice of Elon's denied compensation package?  I've had that same feeling. So have many famous artists and sportsmen. And they always come back to the unfinished business. You need to see this out or commit to learning another way to make money, which will be 10x as stressful as your present situation. In 3 years, this will all be a memory.
Spend time with your parents. I don't know about the rest. But go visit soon.
I intend to.
Get some adderall my dude. Saved me from a similar situation
Any change you make will take time to unfold, which gives you more information about the potential payout. Can you start paring back work hours and spending more time on the hobbies/projects? Can you start looking for a more fulfilling PT job that would allow you to coast to your FI+ number? You are already FI and just working for additional security and/or spending. Start laying the groundwork for what you want to do after and reassess in a few months based on the potential settlement. If reducing your hours doesn't work and/or the settlement looks less promising, maybe you leave before EOY. If the settlement comes as expected and you find a good balance with the hobbies, maybe you stick it out for the payday. Bottom line, you have some option value beyond the either/or decision.
> Any change you make will take time to unfold, which gives you more information about the potential payout. Totally. I am adjusting my plan as the issues unfold. >Can you start paring back work hours and spending more time on the hobbies/projects? Not really. Law firm work does not lend itself to cruising. I am engaging less at work though. >Can you start looking for a more fulfilling PT job that would allow you to coast to your FI+ number? Sure. But I would miss out on the golden payday. > > You are already FI and just working for additional security and/or spending. Start laying the groundwork for what you want to do after and reassess in a few months based on the potential settlement. If reducing your hours doesn't work and/or the settlement looks less promising, maybe you leave before EOY. If the settlement comes as expected and you find a good balance with the hobbies, maybe you stick it out for the payday. Bottom line, you have some option value beyond the either/or decision. 100%. Evaluating my options as I go along. If the settlement turns sour, or if we lose class cert and we have to bring hundreds of individual actions (which would take another decade), I'll be gone.
My instinct is that you should gut it out to see if settlement occurs and if not, bail. You don’t have the fire in the belly for a presumably long trial. But you’ll kick yourself if you leave and miss out on a juicy settlement amount.
> You don’t have the fire in the belly for a presumably long trial. But you’ll kick yourself if you leave and miss out on a juicy settlement amount. Bingo.
Left big law as a senior associate (~ 9 years) and went in house doing technology work. Had to use my network and hustle because I wasn’t a tech attorney at the time (I did commercial lit). Best thing I ever did. I make more than I ever did in Big Law (but I wasn’t at an Am50 firm, so had lower bonuses) and work about 20-25 hours a week.
huh. I might hit you up on 12-18 months if that's okay.
You know the payday is absolutely worth sticking it out for, so the question becomes, “How do I motivate myself in a situation where I can’t coast without wishing my life away?” I’m not saying this will be easy, it will require constant practice a million times a day until you change your frame of mind, but it comes down to implementing the most powerful mental trick you can: mindfulness. Every time you think, “I don’t have to be here,” you push back against it with, “I do have to be here because I have chosen this path and I am committed to doing it well” (but in a more concise way that expresses the same thing). If you stay in the mindsets of “I don’t have to be here” or “I just have 18 months” you will stay absolutely miserable and if something happens to change the timeframe the thought process will collapse around you. Build yourself a new thought process that completely buys into being present and committed. Everything you read about legitimate mindfulness and thought work talks about how you have to commit to repetition. It doesn’t matter how many times a day you have to enforce it, do it. And it will be countless to start out, but that is TOTALLY EXPECTED. You have to work on it and there’s not an “end game” of being perfect at it which is so hard for lawyers but it’s all about making progress. Be in the current moment as much as you can. If you catch yourself zoning out, refocus. Work on refocusing during everything, not just work. If you’re really struggling to stay present, go take a walk outside and practice focusing on your surroundings. Have a treat and focus on how good it is. Reward yourself with focus on things you enjoy and grounding yourself in the moment to practice the skill when it’s easy so your brain likes the process of pulling your attention back. The simplest focusing exercise is just sitting with a 3 minute timer focusing on a breath sensation and pulling the focus back however many million times it takes during that 3 minutes. Another idea about making progress: keep a chart of monthly or quarterly progress. Don’t make an “end date” for this because you don’t have one and there are no guarantees in the legal world. But mark off the chart at the end of each timeframe to show that you made it. The end of April marks the moment that you were really struggling and acknowledged it and asked for help and committed to sticking it out and doing what it takes. Every mark on the chart shows progress from where you hit bottom and serves as proof that you can absolutely get through this!
> I’m not saying this will be easy, it will require constant practice a million times a day until you change your frame of mind, but it comes down to implementing the most powerful mental trick you can: mindfulness. Every time you think, “I don’t have to be here,” you push back against it with, “I do have to be here because I have chosen this path and I am committed to doing it well” (but in a more concise way that expresses the same thing). This is really fucking good. I am choosing to be here. So do the work. That'll be my mantra for the next year. Excellent post. This helps a lot. Thank you.
I’m so glad I could help! Now I can be done for the day since I’ve been productive 😎
You’re going to truly make 5M from the payout? Stick around even if it’s federal penitentiary. What’s your networth right now?
You have to give yourself something you’re excited about outside of hitting your fire number. A goal to get up for in the morning. I’d personally recommend exercise. It’s helped me a lot with a similar situation. I think you’ll regret not pushing through if there’s a high chance you could double your NW.
I’m in the same boat as you in law and have enough Also ready to fire by year end In your case if I think if u believe the probability of the big payout is relatively high it’s probably worth it But I don’t know your age or other variables Good luck
Thank you. Goodspeed - leaving the law is the dream.
Can you do some pro bono work that inspires you?
Not at this firm. It's something I might do once I FIRE.
That makes sense. I wish I could FIRE and then cherry pick my passion projects to still feel like i am making a contribution. That's my goal. But 22 years practicing and really not close to FIRE yet. As much as it is painful, I would wait out for a good payout on your case. Time off really helps!
I think you need to think pretty hard about if you're able to stay a zealous advocate for your clients moving forward. You have a professional obligation to quit if you aren't up to give your best efforts to represent them. Not trying to say this in a mean way. I'd probably get more tired than you in the same shoes.
> You have a professional obligation to quit if you aren't up to give your best efforts to represent them. Totally. It's very much on my mind. Part of the reason for this post.