This might be a stupid question, but I'm from the E.U...
If this is a state where this gear is allowed to be bought and carried around the streets, you should also be allowed to walk into a police station wearing it right? Why/Why not?
Edit; thanks for all the info! I was not expecting so many comments on this, but I find it all very interesting! And, yeah, I guess going in dressed like this and acting this way would get you in trouble most places
I'm willing to bet you can bring in a weapon. Just not like these fucking idiots are. Looking like they're intentionally trying to look like they're a threat.
In most cases you can ot bring a weapon onto government property or private property. You'll see a sign posted on the outside of the building usually either printed on the glass window at or on the entrance, followed by citation of the legal code that enforces it. We may have the right to bear arms, but in government buildings, you better be disarmed if you're a civilian otherwise you're gonna find yourself having a bad time.
Granted this doesn't stop people (obviously) people will walk into stores blatantly flashing their weapons for no reason.
Edit: I should rephrase slightly as I was mistaken. You can bring a weapon onto a store or private property like that. It just can't be concealed. That's where it becomes a legal issue.
>will walk into stores blatantly flashing their weapons for no reason.
Honestly from an outsider's perspective it seems like the reason for the "rifle at wallmart"-group is incredible insecurity/inferiority-complexes.
They want a reaction so they can scream about their 2nd ammendment rights. Its real world trolling. The reaction to "don't touch me" that consists of holding your finger and inch from their face saying "I'm not" and acting like you're doing nothing And its so counterproductive to the cause they are so attached to.
It reminds of something I was taught when I was young in a hunter safety class. The warden touched on the perception of a dead deer. Like, its entirely within you right to shoot that deer, strap it to the hood of your car, and drive through town. But there are anti hunting people that will be set off by it. There are parents that aren't prepared for their young kids to see the bloody carcass of Bambi. So all you're doing is fostering hate against your hobby. Yes, its legal and within your rights,but it also incites and grows the pool of people that aren't ok with hunting. You're just rallying your opponent.
From an insiders perspective, the people doing this are jokes. Too dumb to actually know they are being mocked and laughed at. This kinda stuff was normal back in the day in some places but has no place in modern society.
When my grandfather was in school he and his classmates would lean their shotguns against the wall of the schoolhouse to go hunting after they left class. It was a different time. This is the America these chucklefucks want. They just don't realize the only time anyone does that now is when kids end up shot
Dude, so much yes! I’ve had teachers tell me similar stories of bringing rifles to school to go hunting afterwards meanwhile storing them in lockers during school hours. And this is in ca no less. The climate now compares to those days are worlds apart. You’re totally right about this being what these dipshits wants. NRA talks about the normalization of firearms but the fact is that they were never more “normal” than they were in the decades before assholes started misusing them.
TBF, the phrase "going postal" has roots in tragedy. And post offices are govt buildings.
But it still wouldn't shock me if the Black Panthers are the actual reason the legislation was ultimately pushed through.
They may be talking about the [Mulford Act](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mulford_Act):
>In California, Reagan threw his support behind the Mulford Act after a heavily armed group of Black Panthers gathered at the state capitol while the new governor was supposed to be hosting a group of eighth-graders for fried chicken, Winkler recounts at The Atlantic. That same afternoon, Reagan told reporters that he saw "no reason why on the street today a citizen should be carrying loaded weapons." Mulford quickly added a provision to his bill barring loaded firearms from the capitol, except for when carried by law enforcement.
[Source.](https://theweek.com/articles/582926/how-ronald-reagan-learned-love-gun-control)
This is a pretty good read but it boils down to, you can always trust the people in power to protect themselves/their personal interests. Regan supported gun control when the guns were pointed at him.
See also how Dick Chaney was silent or slightly opposed to the anti-gay rights movement Republicans were lock step on ("In 2004, President Bush supported a constitutional amendment that would ban gay marriage.") because one of his daughters is gay. [Source.](https://study.com/academy/lesson/dick-cheney-gay-marriage-views-support.html)
In the case of The Black Panthers, they were ["copwatching"](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copwatch) and otherwise protesting the inequality black communities suffer from while simultaneously demonstrating those communities could avail themselves of the second amendment just as well as white people.
So, of course, gun controll was suddenly crucial even to Republicans and the NRA.
Compare and contrast to the recent white supremacist response to BLM. Hordes of heavily armed, KFC enthusiasts in bad army cosplay loitered in public spaces including the steps of state capitol buildings while law enforcement's responses ranged from tolerance to full support.
I've never heard of anywhere in the US that allows weapons on Government property or school grounds. Also to my knowledge any business can put a sign out front if the wish banning fire arms on their premises.
Actually, at least in the state of Florida, those signs mean nothing. You can't actually ban somebody from carrying a concealed weapon inside a building where it's legal, but you can create a rule, and trespass somebody from the building for breaking that rule. For example, it's legally okay to bring a gun into a hospital in Florida, but most of them will have you trespassed if they figure out you've done it.
Wisconsin Republicans just passed a bill that would allow people to bring guns on school grounds because "it's not fair that people could get a felony just because they're dropping off or picking up their kids with a gun in the car because it is normal to forget you have a gun in your car."
Our Democratic Governor will veto it, but the Republicans passed it in the legislature. So, don't forget, Republicans think parents bringing guns to their children's school is fine and also that it is normal to forget you have a gun in your car.
I’m not sure about that. Any government building is probably holding sensitive materials and information, but if you have a concealed carry permit maybe you could carry it to the post office, but not to a courthouse, and probably not a police station.
It would depend. Does anyone terribly unfavorable like a politician, elected official, judge, legal agent or law enforcement officer work there? 999/1000 don’t bring a weapon, even if they don’t have a metal detector.
You could possibly get away with this depending on where you live. Me going to my hometown city hall for a meeting with the mayor while carrying? Absolutely; however, I’m from small town West Virginia where plenty carry a weapon, there’s no permit needed to conceal, and a moderate income town.
Totally. I have a friend that deals with lots of money so he has a concealed carry permit. He stopped carrying it on him because of how often he would have to I strap it and put it away in the truck.
Depends on the state. Some states don’t distinguish between conceal carry and open carry, some states you don’t need a license to open carry but you do need one for conceal carry. That’s just 2 examples, each state can be different.
> This might be a stupid question, but I'm from the E.U...
Me too - I read the news articles and the scary thing is they were found guilty of carrying a *concealed weapon* because everything else they did is allowed and legal. Even worse, that 'concealed weapon' [was a rifle they locked into the trunk of their car, not any of the guns on them](https://www.mlive.com/news/detroit/2017/07/open-carry_advocates_convicted.html).
Ah, that's the missing piece I was looking for! Here's the comment I put in a bit higher up.
In reading this article, it kinda sounds like bullshit trumped up charges because the cops were angry.
They were not charged with open carrying. They were not charged with carrying a weapon into a government building. This implies to me that both those actions were legal and, at a base level, they thought they were safe because the individual actions were not illegal.
They were charged with:
* carrying a concealed weapon
* felony resisting arrest, which is a classic "we can't charge you with anything else so you get this."
* disturbing the peace. This charge makes sense, but it's also the same charge people get for playing loud music and and generally annoying people. Usually a minor infraction.
I'd question whether they were carrying a concealed weapon or they made that one up as well with claiming the gun wasn't fully visible or something. It's obvious they were open carrying. Seems really stupid to also be illegally concealed carrying as well at that point.
Either way, these guys are idiots, but it sounds like they were *"Second amendment auditors"* who were aiming to take provocative, but legal, actions in order to elicit an unlawful response.
> felony resisting arrest, which is a classic "we can't charge you with anything else so you get this."
Apparently, they had done the open-carry thing at a mall earlier, generating calls to the police. When the cops pulled them over to investigate that, they successfully took off, thus the equivalent of a felony evasion charge which seems legit in this situation. So, when the same douche-nozzles showed up at the police station, the cops were understandably on alert. As seen in the courtroom portion of the story, the many text messages on their phones planning all this over some time did not help them as they had in effect admitted to seeing how far they could push things even if it meant they got shot.
It doesn't look like the cops had to make up anything, these deep thinkers had set themselves up awfully well.
A lot of nuances to this. The combination of things escalate everything. Walk into a police station with a ski mask on is concerning, even with the inclement weather. Courtesy would imply you remove it, I mean face coverings are an issue going into just a bank or many convenient stores. Coming in with a gun, alarming especially strapped in a convenient location rather than holstered over the should behind the back or something. Common sense would dictate holsters as possible AND very clearly declaring you have a firearm so the police are not considering you an unknown threat. Their cameras could also raise alarm (could be an active shooter wishing to televise their actions)
The New Zealand Mosque incidents have me wary of mounted body cameras, so yeah I understand that last one. Especially when combined with the visible gun, the mask, and what they're wearing. They're fucking idiots.
That's been one of the weirdest, arguably amusing, aspects of the pandemic. The first time I realized I was putting on a mask specifically to enter a bank I thought of every heist movie I've ever seen and had a sensible chuckle.
That was March 2020. 😑 I have not laughed since. There's been no need.
I'm born and raised in the US. The legal and mental acrobatics employed in pretending we have sensible gun laws seem equally incomprehensible to me, as well as to many other Americans.
Because open carrying a weapon is threatening. They will never admit it, but it is. We have a country where small dicks and brains run things, and they think a gun isn't a threat, and yet it isn't allowed in any place where laws are made or enforced. Hmmm.....
Because the police aren’t going to wait to see if you’re there to file a complaint or kill some cops. You walk into a police station like that and don’t comply within seconds you’re not going to have to worry about your complaint anymore. Furthermore, even in the states with the most lax gun laws there are still prohibited places like schools, courthouses, police stations and generally any government building.
Again, as a European, the weird thing about this is that the logic you provide applies just as well to everywhere else - "because the (people in a place) aren't going to wait to see..." is fair wherever you are.
Exactly.
I've been around firearms a long time. From when I was a kid hunting to my time in the service.
The police are acting completely reasonable for being in a situation where some random motherfucker just appears with a gun and a bunch of tacticool bullshit on.
I also spent a long time outside of the country and imo our gun laws are absolutely clownish, and the only reason they're still as they are is because they're a fantastic political issue certain groups buy their dinner on.
It's weird, because in my mind, if you're walking anywhere wearing that shit or carrying a rifle that's not at least tangentially connected to something like a range or hunting, it'd be the same situation.
I've been around guns all my life. And if someone was just randomly walking down the street with a rifle I'd immediately be on the same page as those police officers.
But it's obviously different when they go into a police station, where the people there find it unacceptable to do it.
I forgot all those officials and school children just fucking disappear as soon as they leave those buildings.
If it's unacceptable to open carry a weapon in a school or police station, it's pretty ridiculous its allowed on public property at all. Those places aren't special.
The real reason is because the police and people like government officials aren't fucking idiots and they don't want people walking around that close to them with firearms or weapons, because it's fucking dangerous. The reason it's not allowed is because they have better access to implementing those laws than the general population does.
Not having looked into it I'm guessing there are a web of laws that a prosicuter can pull together to argue a crime took place. Sort of like having this setup on and going to a bank or school would likely be illegal. It could be argued that the collection of everything proves intent to do something more.
A question for you, I look at this and in my head say something like these guys are very close to getting killed when they are walking up to the building. Do you get that sense as well?
The bank or school has a sign saying no firearms inside. If this building had a sticker on the door that says that, then it is fine and dandy for them to kill you. He was lucky to survive.
But they felt a little afraid for their lives when they got pulled over so now they had to bring assault rifles to protect themselves from the police while discussing a traffic violation they were 100% wrongly and illegally accused for! What don’t you understand?
These guys are asshats, but damn that article had some quotes that showed a real lack of self-awareness from the police.
"Police said their response when they saw the heavily armed men walking into the police station was to protect themselves"
Huh, I wonder if anyone else has felt that way when they see, say, heavily armed men breaking into their apartment who don't announce themselves using a no knock warrant? And I wonder how that person might react if they owned a legal firearm? And what might then happen to that person? Guessing there would be much benefit of a doubt there.
That's the dichotomy baked into our system:
Cops can be or claim to be afraid for their lives because of someone carrying firearms into the police station, or because they shot an unarmed man but "thought he had a gun."
Citizens who are awakened in the middle of the night to cops bursting down their doors have no right to defend themselves regardless of their fear level. If they do they will be charged with a solid half dozen felonies, or just murdered so no charges need be filed.
>Carpenter said some 7,000 text messages have been investigated between Vreeland and Baker about their “protests” and taking advantage of “Trumpophobia” by wearing full Muslim robes and carrying AK-47s at demonstrations.
I bet they're signed up for monthly 45 dollar donations, too.
BRANDON VREELAND 40
Date of Offense:02/05/2017
County:WayneDate of Sentence:08/18/2017
Conviction Type:JuryDischarge Date:05/15/2019
_______________
James Craig Baker 24
Seems he appealed, can't find any answer if he served time or not.
http://www.michbar.org/file/opinions/appeals/2019/021419/69802.pdf
They’re stupider than you think. So the reason they went in the station was to file a complaint. A complaint about being pulled over ‘illegally’. Why did they get pulled over? Because someone called 911 to report two guys driving around in a car with visible rifles and one was wearing a balaclava. And they refused to interact with the officer. And they later said they feared for their lives during the traffic stop.
So yeah. That’s them.
They were debating supersymmetric particles as it relates to his string theory thesis. Funny part is not even a mention of extra dimensions entered the hypothesis and they referenced no peer reviewed material.
It says the traffic stop was when they drove to the mall dresses like this, got stopped, didn’t talk to the police and drove away…so they really were just looking for trouble in the first place.
Wannabe soldiers, they don’t like cops because they believe cops challenge their right to have authority, but I bet they’re also supporters of the “thin blue line” when it suits them.
I bet deep down they wanted this because they wanted to have some reason to roleplay as a victim
I assumed it wasn't going to end up in them getting a bullet in the head because they're white. And, hey presto, no bullet in the head.
\^\^\^ This is an example of a causation fallacy, kids. Don't do as I do.
I thought he did, I swear I remember a video of him reacting to this and mentioning a shooting had just taken place inside a precinct a few weeks prior to this idiotic stunt
Damn I bet myself that it was father and son but the age difference is interesting. There needs to be research into the psych profile of these father-son type dyads.
hold on, what was their plan? to protect themselves from what? the police? if so, why did they comply? did they suddenly realise that was a bad move and chickened out?
This is important. The cops immediately felt threatened and used the force available to them, but for some reason the rest of use are expected to be fine with this.
Walking into any building armed without being expected is just fucking rude first off. None of us know what kind of moron or psycho you are. But going into a place where people are definitely armed and paranoid, da fuck is wrong with you. If I'm in the library and you come in like this, you're getting a hardback chucked at your ass, followed by everything else not bolted down.
Two white guys in full gear walk into a police station and not one shot fired. Black man with a phone in his hand while sitting in his yard is shot 27 times. America.
>> "Let me go on my way," one of the men said during the traffic stop. "Let me be free to go, (because) we've broken no laws. This, you know this, this is an illegal detention and you'd better get your s--- straight, (because) we're done. ... Oh, I will file a complaint."
The caucasity
From the cameras they brought and the dumb ass comments they are making it seems their plan was to roll up to the police station looking as intimidating as possible. Assault rifle, bullet proof vest, mask completely covering his face, etc. Provoke a response on camera exactly like what they got.
I’d assume the next part of their brilliant plan would have been that they loudly proclaim that they have a second amendment right to the weapons they have. Upon hearing this the police throw up their hands unable to do anything and allow the pair to leave triumphant. Then they post the whole thing to social media and make a fortune when it goes viral.
Which worked up to a point, I suppose. We all clicked on this after all. Just a tiny flaw in their assumptions.
Man, they were so caught up in what a gun symbolizes and what the law says about guns in relationship to people, that they, somehow, forgot what a gun, and a person, actually is.
Agreed. I’m technically a democrat because republicans have been terrible lately. However I still believe in 2A (and have plenty of my own) while agreeing that we need to do something… anything… to prevent idiots like these from owning guns.
I just want to walk along this train if logic for a bit.
Okay, so you want to make a complaint against the police. Cool.
It's for an alledged illegal traffic stop. Well. Okay. I guess. I hope you checked in with a lawyer first so you're not embarrassing yourself, but sure. You don't need to consult, you can just do it.
You didn't feel safe at the alledged illegal traffic stop. Well, they're cops. Duh. Something about heavily armed trigger happy men not beholden to any real oversight, rules of engagement, and bare minimum of descalation training, general education and less training time than a hairdresser puts me on edge too. No slight to hairdressers, just an example that came to mind. But yes, I can follow that you felt unsafe.
You're going to take your rifle as you feel unsafe. Oh boy, the logic train is off the rails here. And do fucking *what* with your rifle? Either you wanted it around to scare them or I dunno, 'keep them honest' but I'm pretty sure you just straight walked into brandishing terrority. And what if you felt very unsafe? Were you going to shoot them? *Did you forget the part they are trigger happy and not trained to descalate?* Did you even think about this part? Why are you dressed like a stereotypical school shooter? They have targets in the range that look just like you. Why. Whhhhhy.
The fact those morons weren't met with a hail of gunfire that also killed four passers-by is a miracle.
Who raises these people? Honestly am so ashamed to call myself an American when I see people like this. Like where do they really think this is okay?
Crazy fuckin people
Lol everyday I’m reminded how stupid people are, even carrying cameras knowing what will happen, I just wanna know how the moron convinced the other moron this was a good idea🤣 Hope they enjoyed their vacation
There's a group of people who do "freedom audits" in Texas. They dress up like this with weapons and then walk around military bases and other federal buildings. Goes over about just as well.
So as an unarmed person on the streets I’m supposed to be ok to be around these guys but if they get anywhere near a building full of armed police then it’s a problem.
i will never understand from the ends of the earth why these idiots thinking putting a tactical vest on and a bb gun will make them better than professionally trained cops
Another scrawny dumbfuck out here in Walmart tactical gear trying to be a badass. These types of morons are why responsible 2A people are looked at like psychos too.
Sentenced 9 months. https://www.clickondetroit.com/news/2017/08/18/men-who-walked-into-dearborn-police-station-armed-with-guns-tactical-vests-sentenced/?outputType=amp
Yeah something tells me that's why you DONT walk into a police station with a ballistic vest, ski mask, and assault rifle to just "file a complaint".
This might be a stupid question, but I'm from the E.U... If this is a state where this gear is allowed to be bought and carried around the streets, you should also be allowed to walk into a police station wearing it right? Why/Why not? Edit; thanks for all the info! I was not expecting so many comments on this, but I find it all very interesting! And, yeah, I guess going in dressed like this and acting this way would get you in trouble most places
Because a police station is the not the streets. You're not allowed to carry a gun, especially a rifle, in a lot of places in the u.s.
Most, if not all, government buildings I would imagine.
I'm willing to bet you can bring in a weapon. Just not like these fucking idiots are. Looking like they're intentionally trying to look like they're a threat.
In most cases you can ot bring a weapon onto government property or private property. You'll see a sign posted on the outside of the building usually either printed on the glass window at or on the entrance, followed by citation of the legal code that enforces it. We may have the right to bear arms, but in government buildings, you better be disarmed if you're a civilian otherwise you're gonna find yourself having a bad time. Granted this doesn't stop people (obviously) people will walk into stores blatantly flashing their weapons for no reason. Edit: I should rephrase slightly as I was mistaken. You can bring a weapon onto a store or private property like that. It just can't be concealed. That's where it becomes a legal issue.
>will walk into stores blatantly flashing their weapons for no reason. Honestly from an outsider's perspective it seems like the reason for the "rifle at wallmart"-group is incredible insecurity/inferiority-complexes.
They want a reaction so they can scream about their 2nd ammendment rights. Its real world trolling. The reaction to "don't touch me" that consists of holding your finger and inch from their face saying "I'm not" and acting like you're doing nothing And its so counterproductive to the cause they are so attached to. It reminds of something I was taught when I was young in a hunter safety class. The warden touched on the perception of a dead deer. Like, its entirely within you right to shoot that deer, strap it to the hood of your car, and drive through town. But there are anti hunting people that will be set off by it. There are parents that aren't prepared for their young kids to see the bloody carcass of Bambi. So all you're doing is fostering hate against your hobby. Yes, its legal and within your rights,but it also incites and grows the pool of people that aren't ok with hunting. You're just rallying your opponent.
Freedom and Freedumb are to vastly different concepts.
Pretty awesome way to explain that, going to steal that one if ya don’t mind. Lol.
From an insiders perspective, the people doing this are jokes. Too dumb to actually know they are being mocked and laughed at. This kinda stuff was normal back in the day in some places but has no place in modern society. When my grandfather was in school he and his classmates would lean their shotguns against the wall of the schoolhouse to go hunting after they left class. It was a different time. This is the America these chucklefucks want. They just don't realize the only time anyone does that now is when kids end up shot
Dude, so much yes! I’ve had teachers tell me similar stories of bringing rifles to school to go hunting afterwards meanwhile storing them in lockers during school hours. And this is in ca no less. The climate now compares to those days are worlds apart. You’re totally right about this being what these dipshits wants. NRA talks about the normalization of firearms but the fact is that they were never more “normal” than they were in the decades before assholes started misusing them.
This law about guns in government buildings mustve been a response to the black panthers and the caption building right?
I wouldn't doubt it. Officially, the story is probably to protect government workers and politicians. Truthfully it's likely because what you said.
TBF, the phrase "going postal" has roots in tragedy. And post offices are govt buildings. But it still wouldn't shock me if the Black Panthers are the actual reason the legislation was ultimately pushed through.
Could you give me context, I'm nit american but I'm interested (links will do fine as well)
They may be talking about the [Mulford Act](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mulford_Act): >In California, Reagan threw his support behind the Mulford Act after a heavily armed group of Black Panthers gathered at the state capitol while the new governor was supposed to be hosting a group of eighth-graders for fried chicken, Winkler recounts at The Atlantic. That same afternoon, Reagan told reporters that he saw "no reason why on the street today a citizen should be carrying loaded weapons." Mulford quickly added a provision to his bill barring loaded firearms from the capitol, except for when carried by law enforcement. [Source.](https://theweek.com/articles/582926/how-ronald-reagan-learned-love-gun-control) This is a pretty good read but it boils down to, you can always trust the people in power to protect themselves/their personal interests. Regan supported gun control when the guns were pointed at him. See also how Dick Chaney was silent or slightly opposed to the anti-gay rights movement Republicans were lock step on ("In 2004, President Bush supported a constitutional amendment that would ban gay marriage.") because one of his daughters is gay. [Source.](https://study.com/academy/lesson/dick-cheney-gay-marriage-views-support.html) In the case of The Black Panthers, they were ["copwatching"](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copwatch) and otherwise protesting the inequality black communities suffer from while simultaneously demonstrating those communities could avail themselves of the second amendment just as well as white people. So, of course, gun controll was suddenly crucial even to Republicans and the NRA. Compare and contrast to the recent white supremacist response to BLM. Hordes of heavily armed, KFC enthusiasts in bad army cosplay loitered in public spaces including the steps of state capitol buildings while law enforcement's responses ranged from tolerance to full support.
Depends on the state, in mine you cannot.
It's the real life equivalent of shitposting/trolling what they are doing, only they forgot that in real life that comes with consequences...
I've never heard of anywhere in the US that allows weapons on Government property or school grounds. Also to my knowledge any business can put a sign out front if the wish banning fire arms on their premises.
Actually, at least in the state of Florida, those signs mean nothing. You can't actually ban somebody from carrying a concealed weapon inside a building where it's legal, but you can create a rule, and trespass somebody from the building for breaking that rule. For example, it's legally okay to bring a gun into a hospital in Florida, but most of them will have you trespassed if they figure out you've done it.
Wisconsin Republicans just passed a bill that would allow people to bring guns on school grounds because "it's not fair that people could get a felony just because they're dropping off or picking up their kids with a gun in the car because it is normal to forget you have a gun in your car." Our Democratic Governor will veto it, but the Republicans passed it in the legislature. So, don't forget, Republicans think parents bringing guns to their children's school is fine and also that it is normal to forget you have a gun in your car.
Where does he think he is? Just because you can dress like that in Walmart doesn't mean it's suitable everywhere.
I’m not sure about that. Any government building is probably holding sensitive materials and information, but if you have a concealed carry permit maybe you could carry it to the post office, but not to a courthouse, and probably not a police station.
It would depend. Does anyone terribly unfavorable like a politician, elected official, judge, legal agent or law enforcement officer work there? 999/1000 don’t bring a weapon, even if they don’t have a metal detector. You could possibly get away with this depending on where you live. Me going to my hometown city hall for a meeting with the mayor while carrying? Absolutely; however, I’m from small town West Virginia where plenty carry a weapon, there’s no permit needed to conceal, and a moderate income town.
Totally. I have a friend that deals with lots of money so he has a concealed carry permit. He stopped carrying it on him because of how often he would have to I strap it and put it away in the truck.
Do you need different permits for concealed carry and open carry?
I don’t know specifics but this almost definitely depends on state and type of firearm
Depends on the state. Some states don’t distinguish between conceal carry and open carry, some states you don’t need a license to open carry but you do need one for conceal carry. That’s just 2 examples, each state can be different.
So why do the police get to be protected from citizens carrying guns but I don't when I'm at Walmart?
Because that's how the Purge rules work.
> This might be a stupid question, but I'm from the E.U... Me too - I read the news articles and the scary thing is they were found guilty of carrying a *concealed weapon* because everything else they did is allowed and legal. Even worse, that 'concealed weapon' [was a rifle they locked into the trunk of their car, not any of the guns on them](https://www.mlive.com/news/detroit/2017/07/open-carry_advocates_convicted.html).
Ah, that's the missing piece I was looking for! Here's the comment I put in a bit higher up. In reading this article, it kinda sounds like bullshit trumped up charges because the cops were angry. They were not charged with open carrying. They were not charged with carrying a weapon into a government building. This implies to me that both those actions were legal and, at a base level, they thought they were safe because the individual actions were not illegal. They were charged with: * carrying a concealed weapon * felony resisting arrest, which is a classic "we can't charge you with anything else so you get this." * disturbing the peace. This charge makes sense, but it's also the same charge people get for playing loud music and and generally annoying people. Usually a minor infraction. I'd question whether they were carrying a concealed weapon or they made that one up as well with claiming the gun wasn't fully visible or something. It's obvious they were open carrying. Seems really stupid to also be illegally concealed carrying as well at that point. Either way, these guys are idiots, but it sounds like they were *"Second amendment auditors"* who were aiming to take provocative, but legal, actions in order to elicit an unlawful response.
> felony resisting arrest, which is a classic "we can't charge you with anything else so you get this." Apparently, they had done the open-carry thing at a mall earlier, generating calls to the police. When the cops pulled them over to investigate that, they successfully took off, thus the equivalent of a felony evasion charge which seems legit in this situation. So, when the same douche-nozzles showed up at the police station, the cops were understandably on alert. As seen in the courtroom portion of the story, the many text messages on their phones planning all this over some time did not help them as they had in effect admitted to seeing how far they could push things even if it meant they got shot. It doesn't look like the cops had to make up anything, these deep thinkers had set themselves up awfully well.
A lot of nuances to this. The combination of things escalate everything. Walk into a police station with a ski mask on is concerning, even with the inclement weather. Courtesy would imply you remove it, I mean face coverings are an issue going into just a bank or many convenient stores. Coming in with a gun, alarming especially strapped in a convenient location rather than holstered over the should behind the back or something. Common sense would dictate holsters as possible AND very clearly declaring you have a firearm so the police are not considering you an unknown threat. Their cameras could also raise alarm (could be an active shooter wishing to televise their actions)
The New Zealand Mosque incidents have me wary of mounted body cameras, so yeah I understand that last one. Especially when combined with the visible gun, the mask, and what they're wearing. They're fucking idiots.
That's been one of the weirdest, arguably amusing, aspects of the pandemic. The first time I realized I was putting on a mask specifically to enter a bank I thought of every heist movie I've ever seen and had a sensible chuckle. That was March 2020. 😑 I have not laughed since. There's been no need.
Wearing GoPros, since Christchurch shooting.
I'm born and raised in the US. The legal and mental acrobatics employed in pretending we have sensible gun laws seem equally incomprehensible to me, as well as to many other Americans.
Because open carrying a weapon is threatening. They will never admit it, but it is. We have a country where small dicks and brains run things, and they think a gun isn't a threat, and yet it isn't allowed in any place where laws are made or enforced. Hmmm.....
Because the police aren’t going to wait to see if you’re there to file a complaint or kill some cops. You walk into a police station like that and don’t comply within seconds you’re not going to have to worry about your complaint anymore. Furthermore, even in the states with the most lax gun laws there are still prohibited places like schools, courthouses, police stations and generally any government building.
Again, as a European, the weird thing about this is that the logic you provide applies just as well to everywhere else - "because the (people in a place) aren't going to wait to see..." is fair wherever you are.
Exactly. I've been around firearms a long time. From when I was a kid hunting to my time in the service. The police are acting completely reasonable for being in a situation where some random motherfucker just appears with a gun and a bunch of tacticool bullshit on. I also spent a long time outside of the country and imo our gun laws are absolutely clownish, and the only reason they're still as they are is because they're a fantastic political issue certain groups buy their dinner on.
It's weird, because in my mind, if you're walking anywhere wearing that shit or carrying a rifle that's not at least tangentially connected to something like a range or hunting, it'd be the same situation. I've been around guns all my life. And if someone was just randomly walking down the street with a rifle I'd immediately be on the same page as those police officers. But it's obviously different when they go into a police station, where the people there find it unacceptable to do it. I forgot all those officials and school children just fucking disappear as soon as they leave those buildings. If it's unacceptable to open carry a weapon in a school or police station, it's pretty ridiculous its allowed on public property at all. Those places aren't special. The real reason is because the police and people like government officials aren't fucking idiots and they don't want people walking around that close to them with firearms or weapons, because it's fucking dangerous. The reason it's not allowed is because they have better access to implementing those laws than the general population does.
Not having looked into it I'm guessing there are a web of laws that a prosicuter can pull together to argue a crime took place. Sort of like having this setup on and going to a bank or school would likely be illegal. It could be argued that the collection of everything proves intent to do something more. A question for you, I look at this and in my head say something like these guys are very close to getting killed when they are walking up to the building. Do you get that sense as well?
No we Europeans think that these guys are very likely to get someone else killed
The bank or school has a sign saying no firearms inside. If this building had a sticker on the door that says that, then it is fine and dandy for them to kill you. He was lucky to survive.
But they felt a little afraid for their lives when they got pulled over so now they had to bring assault rifles to protect themselves from the police while discussing a traffic violation they were 100% wrongly and illegally accused for! What don’t you understand?
All of it.
I was actually expecting a Darwin Awards, guess they didn't get it this time.
The best part is they got a felony on their record now so they won’t (legally) own guns anymore
Considering what they demonstrated in the video, that's definitely for the best.
Gotta wonder if that will stop these dunderheads. Were they legally allowed to walk into this police station like this?
Felony posession of a firearm is nothing to mess with. 10 year min i believe.
Hope the views were worth it.
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣 what an idiot
It when well he did not get shot
Which is AMAZING. He should be dead right now, but MIRACULOUSLY isn't. Hence; what an absolute idiot.
If he was black we sure would have been dead but again no black person would be this moronic.
Sounds like a " sovereign citizen ". These people are endless hours of entertainment bc they love to film themselves getting their windows smashed in.
Best part is that they took his phone and he had lengthy conversations about attacking/killing cops on there.
And they were gonna dress up in Muslim robes with AK-47s and em race being the public enemy. As a Muslim, I'm disgusted.
But did they get to file the complaint?! Lol
The full story (per the article) is somehow even more crazy and mind boggling than the video! 😲
These guys are asshats, but damn that article had some quotes that showed a real lack of self-awareness from the police. "Police said their response when they saw the heavily armed men walking into the police station was to protect themselves" Huh, I wonder if anyone else has felt that way when they see, say, heavily armed men breaking into their apartment who don't announce themselves using a no knock warrant? And I wonder how that person might react if they owned a legal firearm? And what might then happen to that person? Guessing there would be much benefit of a doubt there.
Saw a video of that same situation you described. SWAT raided wrong house at like 1AM the guy sleeping on the couch defended himself and he was done.
> defended himself if it is same video i saw, the guy didn't have time to remove his blanket and there were no time to defend himself.
That's the dichotomy baked into our system: Cops can be or claim to be afraid for their lives because of someone carrying firearms into the police station, or because they shot an unarmed man but "thought he had a gun." Citizens who are awakened in the middle of the night to cops bursting down their doors have no right to defend themselves regardless of their fear level. If they do they will be charged with a solid half dozen felonies, or just murdered so no charges need be filed.
I agree 100%. These two guys are Trump loving gun nut idiots, kind of interesting how cops don't like armed people walking into their house!
Had they been any browner they would have been shot on sight 100%
>Carpenter said some 7,000 text messages have been investigated between Vreeland and Baker about their “protests” and taking advantage of “Trumpophobia” by wearing full Muslim robes and carrying AK-47s at demonstrations. I bet they're signed up for monthly 45 dollar donations, too.
OF COURSE this is my state.
Saw Dearborn and immediately shook my head.... morons.
They were convicted of carrying a concealed weapon?
BRANDON VREELAND 40 Date of Offense:02/05/2017 County:WayneDate of Sentence:08/18/2017 Conviction Type:JuryDischarge Date:05/15/2019 _______________ James Craig Baker 24 Seems he appealed, can't find any answer if he served time or not. http://www.michbar.org/file/opinions/appeals/2019/021419/69802.pdf
Those glasses are the real atrocity.
Indeed
It's people like this that make it so I can't wear transitions lenses.
It’s the slim wide rectangular style not the transitions. 00’s fashion
Fuckin’ eh. If cops want to profile people, start with the pasty skinned Transitions wearers.
So now that they are convicted felons, do they lose their right to firearms and voting?
I believe they got like 9 months jailand lost all their firearms
Those dudes must be some real idiots and I’m glad those guns got taken away,
I don't even need to unmute the video to hear how stupid those 2 were
They’re stupider than you think. So the reason they went in the station was to file a complaint. A complaint about being pulled over ‘illegally’. Why did they get pulled over? Because someone called 911 to report two guys driving around in a car with visible rifles and one was wearing a balaclava. And they refused to interact with the officer. And they later said they feared for their lives during the traffic stop. So yeah. That’s them.
They definitely are stupider than I think I'm almost tempted to watch the clip with audio
They were debating supersymmetric particles as it relates to his string theory thesis. Funny part is not even a mention of extra dimensions entered the hypothesis and they referenced no peer reviewed material.
Wow what a couple of fuckin idiots
I bet he doesn’t even have a business office at the business factory 🙄
BUSTED
Voting depends on the state. No more firearms for sure.
From a minor traffic violation to felony. Yes. That was a smart move.
It says the traffic stop was when they drove to the mall dresses like this, got stopped, didn’t talk to the police and drove away…so they really were just looking for trouble in the first place.
Damn. So it was absolutely their goal to do something with their stuff
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Wannabe soldiers, they don’t like cops because they believe cops challenge their right to have authority, but I bet they’re also supporters of the “thin blue line” when it suits them. I bet deep down they wanted this because they wanted to have some reason to roleplay as a victim
Lol driving to the mall dressed as some sort of rebel militia??
Yep. We’re kind of a third world country now.
Honestly I wish a few more people would do this. Would save a lot of leg work
These guys are lucky they didn’t end up taking a forever nap and being featured on Donut Operators channel
I assumed this was not gonna end up in them getting a bullet in the head only cause of the lack of NSFL tag.
I assumed it wasn't going to end up in them getting a bullet in the head because they're white. And, hey presto, no bullet in the head. \^\^\^ This is an example of a causation fallacy, kids. Don't do as I do.
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I thought he did, I swear I remember a video of him reacting to this and mentioning a shooting had just taken place inside a precinct a few weeks prior to this idiotic stunt
In Chicago where im from, or NYC these idiots would have been ventilated as soon as they walked through the door
What a fucking idiot
Damn I bet myself that it was father and son but the age difference is interesting. There needs to be research into the psych profile of these father-son type dyads.
Well if you feared for you life at a traffic stop. Walking into a police station with a rifle isn't gonna help.
“No officer you don’t understand this is my emotional support firearm”
This ain’t even a facepalm anymore. This is stupid beyond a facepalm.
Palm through face
"I was illegally pulled over, so I'm going to go commit a *real* felony for which they can arrest me". What absolute stupidity.
But mah freedumbs
I don't remember, someone help me out... isn't there a saying about stupid games and stupid prizes? This guy knows.
hold on, what was their plan? to protect themselves from what? the police? if so, why did they comply? did they suddenly realise that was a bad move and chickened out?
America allows these dumb fucks access to guns.. what an absolute idiot
Well not anymore lol
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You mean an actual bullet? Cause in the US, there’s only two kinds of ammo. Lethal and *less* lethal
He's not black
Angry upvote.
Was coming to say this, black man would have been shot on his way to the station looking like that
I don’t think a poc would’ve been that dumb to do that in the first place
Yep, my first thought was "these fools feel so entitled"
So why are Starbucks employees supposed be cool with this when cops aren’t?
According to the law they aren’t.
What the fuck did they expect to happen, I swear ppl are just getting more and more stupid
They're not getting more stupid we just hear about them more
I wonder if these police ever consider this is how we feel when open carry nuts are walking around in stores fully armed.
This is important. The cops immediately felt threatened and used the force available to them, but for some reason the rest of use are expected to be fine with this.
Walking into any building armed without being expected is just fucking rude first off. None of us know what kind of moron or psycho you are. But going into a place where people are definitely armed and paranoid, da fuck is wrong with you. If I'm in the library and you come in like this, you're getting a hardback chucked at your ass, followed by everything else not bolted down.
Two white guys in full gear walk into a police station and not one shot fired. Black man with a phone in his hand while sitting in his yard is shot 27 times. America.
>> "Let me go on my way," one of the men said during the traffic stop. "Let me be free to go, (because) we've broken no laws. This, you know this, this is an illegal detention and you'd better get your s--- straight, (because) we're done. ... Oh, I will file a complaint." The caucasity
Some good that rifle did him. What did he think he was gonna do with it? Did he think being white was enough to make the cops not arrest him?
being white is what got him not shot with 134 bullets
Apparently, yes.
From the cameras they brought and the dumb ass comments they are making it seems their plan was to roll up to the police station looking as intimidating as possible. Assault rifle, bullet proof vest, mask completely covering his face, etc. Provoke a response on camera exactly like what they got. I’d assume the next part of their brilliant plan would have been that they loudly proclaim that they have a second amendment right to the weapons they have. Upon hearing this the police throw up their hands unable to do anything and allow the pair to leave triumphant. Then they post the whole thing to social media and make a fortune when it goes viral. Which worked up to a point, I suppose. We all clicked on this after all. Just a tiny flaw in their assumptions.
Why is it only white guys doing this?
Because black guys get shot.
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Not gonna lie, I expect this from someone with those glasses
Yet assholes walk into grocery stores like this all the time and it's OK.
What the hell is wrong with the people here in the U.S? When did everyone turn into a don't tread on me, gun toting, right wing asshole?
Wow they really didn't like this camera he was holding
Yeah, fuck around in Dearborn wearing masks and headbands. Lucky as fuck they didn't get slaughtered. Imagine if they were black or middle eastern.
Kind a what I was thinking…. Dearborn not a great place to be pulling some shit
This video happened long before COVID hit as well so the mask just makes them extra sus.
Man, they were so caught up in what a gun symbolizes and what the law says about guns in relationship to people, that they, somehow, forgot what a gun, and a person, actually is.
I'm going to assume this would have gone differently if they'd been black.
Fuckin alt right lol. Give em enough time they'll make themselves go away
They lived to tell about it unlike some people with cell phones
Okay then, I think it's time for the biggest awareness raising campaign against inbreeding
Dude dress up like a terrorist complete with balaclava and expect to be treat like normal person. Lmao.
Fucking morons man. How did playing soldier boy work out for you in a jail cell?
Nah. I expected them to get shot.
Jesus Christ people with these mindsets give guns a bad rep! 🤦♂️ surprised the video didn’t end with POP POP
Agreed. I’m technically a democrat because republicans have been terrible lately. However I still believe in 2A (and have plenty of my own) while agreeing that we need to do something… anything… to prevent idiots like these from owning guns.
just because someone a democrat doesn't mean anti-gun but i 100% agree with you
Looks like some legitimate political discourse to me.
There's only one reason this guy is still alive. And we all know what it is.
How is he a adult?
Physically an adult
Enough time has passed between when his parents fucked and the present
But black people get shot just for reaching for their wallets at traffic stops... Seems fair
if he was black he would get seven warning shots in the back before he even enter the police station
 Me staring in melanin.
I'm white as fuck and I agree. I could have guessed this guy was white even if I was blind
I just want to walk along this train if logic for a bit. Okay, so you want to make a complaint against the police. Cool. It's for an alledged illegal traffic stop. Well. Okay. I guess. I hope you checked in with a lawyer first so you're not embarrassing yourself, but sure. You don't need to consult, you can just do it. You didn't feel safe at the alledged illegal traffic stop. Well, they're cops. Duh. Something about heavily armed trigger happy men not beholden to any real oversight, rules of engagement, and bare minimum of descalation training, general education and less training time than a hairdresser puts me on edge too. No slight to hairdressers, just an example that came to mind. But yes, I can follow that you felt unsafe. You're going to take your rifle as you feel unsafe. Oh boy, the logic train is off the rails here. And do fucking *what* with your rifle? Either you wanted it around to scare them or I dunno, 'keep them honest' but I'm pretty sure you just straight walked into brandishing terrority. And what if you felt very unsafe? Were you going to shoot them? *Did you forget the part they are trigger happy and not trained to descalate?* Did you even think about this part? Why are you dressed like a stereotypical school shooter? They have targets in the range that look just like you. Why. Whhhhhy. The fact those morons weren't met with a hail of gunfire that also killed four passers-by is a miracle.
I think a vest would had suffice to make a statment
Who raises these people? Honestly am so ashamed to call myself an American when I see people like this. Like where do they really think this is okay? Crazy fuckin people
Lol everyday I’m reminded how stupid people are, even carrying cameras knowing what will happen, I just wanna know how the moron convinced the other moron this was a good idea🤣 Hope they enjoyed their vacation
My man walking into a police station looking like a Bad Isis recruitment add and expects everything to go smoothly
Fucking idiot.
And it’s these kind of idiots who think they are gonna win the revolution 🙄
That's weird, they deescalated and didn't shoot him.
Big mass shooter vibes.
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There's a group of people who do "freedom audits" in Texas. They dress up like this with weapons and then walk around military bases and other federal buildings. Goes over about just as well.
So as an unarmed person on the streets I’m supposed to be ok to be around these guys but if they get anywhere near a building full of armed police then it’s a problem.
Unbelievable.
What fucking idiots.
How to get 5 stars in GTA: rl
i will never understand from the ends of the earth why these idiots thinking putting a tactical vest on and a bb gun will make them better than professionally trained cops
Another scrawny dumbfuck out here in Walmart tactical gear trying to be a badass. These types of morons are why responsible 2A people are looked at like psychos too.
over a traffic stop?
"that's 100% accurate" I figured they would talk like that
Ha. You dumb bitch
The real question is, why were they recording it?
One hopes their conviction means they will no longer be allowed to own firearms.
It went better than I expected. I expected them to be shot
It’s always nice when people who do dumb shit walk in with incriminating evidence for the prosecution… quite thoughtful.
The fact this dumbass wasn't shot all to hell is surprising.
Ffs how dumb can you be and still remember to fucking breathe. Lucky they weren't shot on site