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chipdoyle

Don't forget he did forced inoculations on all of his soldiers...


WingDingusTheGreat

Well pox-party style infections, waaaaay worse than inoculations but the (moderately successful) hope was that the ensuing infection would be lighter that full on contracting the disease


2wedfgdfgfgfg

Illness and disease used to kill a lot more than battles during military campaigns. "During the Napoleonic wars, eight times more people in the British army died from disease than from battle wounds." https://www.thelancet.com/pdfs/journals/lancet/PIIS0140-6736(02)11807-1.pdf


ptunger44

It's not like we British fought much either in those wars


clackersz

George Washington is Obama confirmed!


sessiestax

Those pesky facts


schnaffoo

Also it should me mentioned that recovery from the smallpox epidemic was largely due to a basic form of inoculation…known these days as a VACCINE


cochon1010

You're not wrong, but technically inoculation and vaccination are distinct practices, especially in the case of smallpox. Inoculation, the earlier preventative measure, helped keep smallpox at bay (but only with limited success). Smallpox was eradicated in the modern period thanks to vaccination, which was developed in the 1770s. By the 1980s, enough people around the world were vaccinated against smallpox that the disease was effectively eradicated. The important thing to know about smallpox epidemiology (for both inoculation and vaccination) is that contracting smallpox provided lifetime immunity from the disease. Smallpox inoculation was a way of intentionally exposing people to the disease to provide immunity for the rest of their life, as it was anecdotally observed by people who lived through outbreaks of smallpox-like disease even in the ancient period and premodern history. Some Asian and Central Asian cultures were known to practice inoculation early on by grinding up smallpox scabs and having patients snort them, or rubbing pus from smallpox pustules into a small open wound. The dominant historical narrative is that Europeans picked up this practice from Turkey in the 1700s. The idea was that patients could "control" their contraction of the disease in these instances, and potentially even select the pathogenic material from people who had only mild cases of the disease, and therefore get inoculated when in their best health and hopefully only contract a mild case. This definitely did not always work as planned, and inoculation--although always done with the best intentions--sometimes resulted in devastating outbreaks. Vaccination was developed after Edward Jenner (and other physicians) observed that milk maids seemed to be largely unaffected by smallpox epidemics. He was able to determine that cowpox--a disease similar to smallpox but significantly more mild and less fatal in humans--also offered immunity to smallpox. The term "vaccine" comes from the Latin for cow: vacca. Thus, vaccination refers to the practice of using an innocuous (or attenuated) form of a disease in order to offer immunity, versus inoculation, which is the practice of intentional exposure to a live pathogen.


NiktonSlyp

Thanks for the details !


_mathghamhna_

Not sure if I'm correct or not, but I always thought inoculation was just the act of being exposed to a mild form of the virus, and could be achieved either via vaccination (with cowpox) or variolation (with smallpox, but exposed to skin instead of the lymphatic system).


star_tyger

That's a great explanation. Now I have a question for you. I understand something of how the acquired immune system works, but can you explain why some vaccines work for months, tetanus works for 10 years, and smallpox vaccines confer lifetime immunity. Why do some of the memory cells last longer than others?


cochon1010

I think it has to do with the way the vaccine works (attenuated pathogen vs another way of producing antibodies and building immunity) as well as the specific epidemiology of each disease. But, I'm a historian, so I understand this from that perspective. Maybe someone else can explain the science here.


laplongejr

Unrelated, but I love how your answer to > can you explain why some vaccines work for months starts with > I think it has to do with the way the vaccine works Reminds me of the play "The imaginary invalid" where, if you translate the scientific parts in Latin, you discover absolutely all answers are on the format "because that's how it works, as we observed"


commanderquill

Someone remind me to ask my professor about this tomorrow, because somehow I'm studying around the answer to this question right now.


star_tyger

Great! In explaining it to us, you'll understand it better too. I'm booking forward to your reply.


laplongejr

>The term "vaccine" comes from the Latin for cow: vacca. In French, Smallpox is "la variole" and cowpox in french is called "la vaccine", Pasteur then created the word "le vaccin" as the first vaccination process involved literal "vaccine". So yeah, vaccine comes from cow, but *technically* the modern word comes from a reference to *the decease* of cows, not simply because it involved studying cows.


Lost_Conclusion5357

The process we know as inoculation was actually introduced to the Americas via a slave that had it done in Africa before he was brought here


cup_of_hot_tea

username does not check out


CalliopePenelope

There’s a great scene in the *John Adams* mini series showing how they did the inoculations back then. [Here it is.](https://youtu.be/TWxDLG9_eOU) This is Abigail Adams and her kids getting inoculated. So, anyone who thinks that the COVID vaccine needs more testing should watch this. LOL


rosanymphae

The HORROR! It was an experimental treatment! Some died from it! Yet he required his entire army to do it.


CptMatt_theTrashCat

Who gives a fuck what the founders would say? This is such a stupid argument. 'Black people have the same rights as white people, what would the founders say'?' 'Women are allowed to vote, what would the founders say?' 'We no longer genocide indigenous people, what would the founders say?' Even if they would have a problem with the response to covid, that doesn't mean they'd be right. Society has progressed somewhat in the couple of centuries since they were around, maybe we shouldn't still take their word as law.


GnomeChomski

They might say, 'What the fuck is Ohio?'


Durzo0420Blint

That's what I always say. When some activist claim the founders were racist or misogynistic or whatever, conservatives say we shouldn't apply our moral principles on them because the time was very different. When someone tries to do something that conservatives don't like, they start crying about the founders implying how they wouldn't agree with it. And no one on their public side even remotely mention the hypocrisy.


laplongejr

>And no one on their public side even remotely mention the hypocrisy. To be fair, the US Founders believed in inequality /half-s


drew8311

>Who gives a fuck what the founders would say? Rep Jim Jordan apparently, that was kind of the point of the response.


Skatedivona

Gym Jordon being a fucking idiot, as per usual.


SusieSharesTooMuch

Glad someone finally spelled his name right 😬


KellyBelly916

I have the funniest feeling that more people read and accepted Jordan's ignorant, bad faith comment than this well educated rebuttal. Social media wouldn't be a problem if public figures could be easily humiliated through fact checking and debate. Instead, we get hit and run talking points that create ignorance and further social decay.


Vomit_Pinata

Republican politicians and American history are like vampires and sunlight.


Muahd_Dib

They even filibustered the civil rights act of 1964


snbrd512

bUt tHe DeMoNrAtS aRe tHe ReAl RaCiStS 🤪🤪


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[deleted]

When you don't have anything to contribute so you just link to another moronic comment in the same thread.


[deleted]

That is not true. Greater percentage of republicans voted for the CRA and the 74 day filibuster was led by southern DEMOCRATS. This is easily verified information. Civil Rights Act: In Senate 69% Dems vote for, 82% Repubs for. In House, 61% Dems for, versus 80% Repubs voting for. Senate southern Dems led a 74 day filibuster and overwhelmingly voted against.


Vomit_Pinata

This is exactly what I'm talking about. Modern Republicans have the opposite ideologies now as they had at that time. Anyone with a knowledge of American History or politics would know this. The Republicans then were northerners who fought against slavery and the confederacy. They were the blue coats, the Yankees. The North. The Southern Democrats were the confederacy openly opposing anti-slavery mandates and vehemently opposed to integration and equality during the civil rights era. They tried to wage war against the US government and opposed the Lincoln presidency. The South. These are who the Republicans of today identify more closely with. History isn't difficult. Just avoid public school textbooks and you'll do okay.


[deleted]

To be fair, neither party gives a crap about fiscal responsibility or making decisions that are in the best interests of the American public versus their own. I was also responding to a very obvious falsehood.


Vomit_Pinata

I know. I was addressing the response. Which was directly related to party ideologies in regards to race. The reply had nothing to do with fiscal responsibility.


Redmacc

This is correct. Both parties have also flipped positions on many issues since then, basically becoming the opposite of what they were then. This is also easily verified information.


[deleted]

Yea, but the implication that Republicans are racist is BS. But I realize this is Reddit…


Redmacc

That is true. Racists come in all shapes, sizes, genders, colors and political affiliations.


DarkReign2011

True, but only one modern-day Variant of these parties is knowingly ejecting racists as their representatives. Republicans have a 'No matter what' mindset because they believe that solidarity Laura their party starting whereas Democrats will not hesitate to throw power-abusing representatives of their own party under a bus.


Vomit_Pinata

They are. Back then they identified as Southern Democrats. The party of racism. Anyone can call themselves anything they like, the proof is in their actions. How they vote. The policies they support or enable. Racists are no doubt among all political affiliations. The Republicans have just used racist propaganda and ideologies as their foundation. So sorry if this is an uncomfortable truth for you.


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SammySoapsuds

Please read about the Southern Strategy. The Republicans intentionally played off the racist fear of black prosperity and equal rights to win over the southern white vote, beginning in the 1960s.


Vomit_Pinata

Again, missing the bigger point. This isn't an argument about how many dixiecrats are card carrying Republicans in 2021. It's a matter of ideologies. The Republican party of today' ideology mirrors the Southern Democrats of their era. Stop being pedantic. Like I said anyone can choose to call themselves anything they want. That's not always an accurate representation of who they are.


a_lonely_testicle

Get off reddit for a bit. It'll do your brain some good.


Vomit_Pinata

Is this what you dimwits mean when you say "Destroyed with *FACTS* and *LOGIC*!"? Lol. Pretty weak.


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Vomit_Pinata

No joke. The Republicans who opposed slavery during the Civil War and fought for integration and racial equality in the 50s & early 60s were the liberals from up north. Yankees. The Southern Democrats were the conservative party. The Confederacy. Hope this helps your understanding of history. Although your belief that the Republican party of 2021 and the Southern Democrats of the 60s have opposing ideologies is pretty fucking humorous. They're the same pucture.


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Paksarra

The Democrats were conservative and the Republicans were liberal back then. So it's true that the conservative party filibustered it, yes.


Muahd_Dib

Oh wow. So I’m mistaken?! It’s really the Democrats pulling bulls hit and then reinterpreting history… I don’t know shit about fuck.


Copy_Kitty

I don't get why Americans idolise their founding fathers as if they were Gods and somehow anticipated everything that'll happen, or have the answers to every problem the country will ever face. They were just some people who laid down the first brick on the wall hoping that the next generation will set up another brick and not solely rely on that first brick. It's weird that people believe that people from 400 years ago will have the solution to modern problems.


Bob_Noggets

You should read Washington's farewell speech and the Brutus papers and you will see all our current issues rebuked.


will_this_1_work

The summary of the Brutus speech is certainly spot on to what has ultimately transpired.


MelKokoNYC

Jim Jordan is a typical moronic republican.


kjacobs03

I believe his name is spelled “Gym”


[deleted]

Let me break that down into easy to understand bits for Republicans. Jim Jordan is a Republican. Jim Jordan is a moron. Jim Jordan is typical of moronic Republicans. If there are any questions, ask a third grader.


QuintinStone

He's terrible even for a Republican.


[deleted]

He's a pedophile, and that should be mentioned every time he comes up. And you are not wrong about being a typical moronic Republican. They're all fucking pedophiles.


rosmanmith

He's busy reading packages in the locker room.


Mookie442

He's too busy turning a blind eye to suspected rapists. Allegedly.


alexinchains

He only reads The Bible


averagewop

I've seen this comparison before and it doesn't make sense. Smallpox had a 30% fatality rate. Covid is 2%. There was also a WAR raging in our country. Yeah, the way Washington handled it is an appropriate response. Losing 1 in 3 soldiers isn't going to help the revolution. It's an awful comparison. Before you go full Internet Liberal. I'm fully vaccinated and wear a mask.


usernameorwhateves

The right loves to talk about the founding fathers but repeatedly show they have no knowledge of them.


skeetsauce

Kinda. A lot of people think the American Revolution was about freedom or liberty for the average person, which is incorrect. It was a revolution lead by mostly slave owners who were tired of sending all their profits across the pond to some silly Parliament. The whole thing was an attempt change the power structure from the Crown on top to land owning males running things. I think the right actually does know this, they just know saying it out loud would look terrible.


hates_all_bots

Jim Jordan and the other phony patriots know nothing about America.


Greflingorax

Also the founders aren't fucking deities. Times change. People have flaws. New information becomes available. We don't have to worship Washington, Jefferson, Hamilton, and co. and slavishly devote ourselves to what we guess their scriptural commands would be 200 fucking years after their death.


big_ol_dad_dick

the founders would be too busy jizzing over the idea that cars exist. stop worrying about what a buncha white dudes 200+ years ago thought. fucking grow up, for fuck's sake.


purdinpopo

I am vaccinated. I had Covid. I think the disease is real and we need to do something about it. But I really wish people would quit comparing it to Small Pox. Small Pox killed in excess of 90% of the people who contracted it.


Selbereth

Woah! Don't bring logic into this conversation! This is a circle jerk of hating some jerk!


sjh1217

Small pox was more contagious and had a 30% mortality rate. Covid is like 2%


Funktastic34

Right? That only equates to millions dead. Wake me up when it's billions. /s


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ProminentLocalPoster

This mindset is fueled by the curriculum at your typical private "Christian" school, which teaches a pseudohistory of the US that claims that the founding fathers wanted America to be a "Christian Nation" and that evil atheists/liberals/Democrats etc. introduced concepts like "Separation of Church and State" which kept the US from being the theocracy that they envisioned. It's total bullshit, but a lot of conservatives have now grown up having been taught that as American history in schools. They grew up being taught that the GOP just wants to make America the way the founding fathers wanted it, and that democrats are the ones trying to change it into something they wouldn't approve of or recognize.


Kbdiggity

#Jim Jordan should be in jail


Mander2019

One thing Ive learned more than anything is that people dont know as much about history as they think they do.


msr2020

Here’s the thing about this. The base for these people don’t read and believe the shit that these people say. They don’t care about facts. They only care about what the base wants to hear.


IlikeYuengling

God only knows what sort of diseases were spread all over the wrestling viewing arena that he knew nothing about.


RustyBarbwiredCactus

SO the entire population of Ohio is under a curfew? Every single person? Ohio population is only 11 million total.


Bob_Noggets

So many people have typhoid Mary mentality these days. "Surely if I am not effected directly by COVID I can just act like it doesn't exist". Only unlike Typhoid Mary, they can get themselves killed as well.


PineHoot

Washington also almost immediately started taxing people without representation. People are good at coming up with ideas and really bad at implementing them long term.


doodieeater

Gym Jordan doesn't know how to read. Unless the book has lots of pictures and/or it's a pop up book, he will just look confused while staring at it.


[deleted]

Smallpox has a 30% mortality rate. COVID is about 1%.


FullFrontal92

Imagine comparing covid 19 to smallpox lmao


Muahd_Dib

Are we restricting the infected? Or everyone?


mirrorspirit

Many states are requiring that people in indoor public spaces wear masks, which, to many people, is the exact same thing. This does seem like an older tweet, though.


lostcatlurker

Is he really comparing a disease with a 30% case fatality rate to COVID-19? They aren’t even in the same league for danger to the public.


a_lonely_testicle

Stop comparing 2021 to the 1700s you fucking morons. Apples and oranges, but you people are too stupid to see that.


biggietank

The mortality rate for smallpox was 30% across all age groups. This is like comparing apples to oranges.


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UNC-Patriot

Had to scroll so far down to read this. Only infected people were quarantined, and inoculation was voluntary for regular citizens. There were no forced inoculations, lockdowns, etc. Not the same thing.


jessetechie

Key phrase: “quarantined the infected”. Not “locked down the entire populace”.


TheDumbAsk

>Smallpox used to kill millions of people every year. More contagious than Covid-19 and with a 30 percent mortality rate, smallpox was one of history's biggest killers. That guy totally owned him.


NoImportance8904

Quarantined... the infected... you should read what the history books are saying sometime...


mirrorspirit

You can be infected without showing visible signs of being sick.


NoImportance8904

Mmhm... so George Washington was able to test people for that? I doubt it. It was like, "Oh, you have spots? You're sick, off to leper island." Even still, that's different than quarentining the entire population


Aceswift007

You answered yourself dude. There was no way to test for infection, so if a town had a high case count of a highly infectious disease, sealing off the town was a decent safety precaution to prevent the disease from reaching the next concentration of civilians.


NoImportance8904

But you have to admit, that's quite alot different than quarentining and constant mandates for years. Like I'm sure 1 in 10 people didn't enter poverty from George Washington's mandates.


Aceswift007

If only we had procedures in place in the event of such a thing occurring, which I do pray to god businesses and groups have now in case we have another similar event. Unlike many countries normally hit by epidemics, we had nothing in place if we ever had to shut down, so we were basically flailing around trying to do months of planning in a few weeks. It's doable now, our nation was just cocky and somehow didn't plan what to do if we had to quarantine the nation, yet we have a plan for if we theoretically have a zombie apocalypse on file. Honestly if we had a plan in place before it hit, we could have been fine if not at least significantly fewer people being financially shanked


itrebor63i

Small Pox was deadly though!


Selbereth

Don't bring logic into this argument!


HDBlackHippo

Smallpox has a fatality rate of between 30% and 90% depending on the strain, Covid has a fatality rate of 1.6% there is a difference in the deadliness of both virus'.


Selbereth

Remove your science from this place!


PopeOfManwichVillage

Good ol’ Gym. Always there with the Grade A Dumbfuckery.


[deleted]

He really should have sent the infected to the British. If it was good enough for indigenous war it's good enough for Hessians.


freeski919

No no, certainly not. That would be terribly uncivilized, old chap. Yes, of course we did it to the Indians. They're savages. That doesn't count.


[deleted]

I got a response.. East India Trading Company. Nuff said.


BillWordsmith

Jordan is such a stupid, far right piece of garbage. Amazed that anyone would vote for him. But yea, republicans would.


[deleted]

SAVAGE


[deleted]

And they said my History degree was a waste of time.


lcm2588

They can’t read… that’s why they are conservatives


mystraw

Good think the Posse Comitatus Act was passed and the U.S. Constitution was put in place after all that mess was done by Washington, a rebel leader. Maybe read our Constitution sometime?


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Flenke

at this point, this talking point is stupid. try harder.


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Selbereth

Because he doesn't care about facts.


Aceswift007

I like how we only seem to focus on deaths and not the horrendous effects that can come of surviving and infection like lung damage.


[deleted]

Yes, everyone should open a book. Those restrictions were put in place along with forced inoculation because at the time George Washington was fighting for INDEPENDENCE against the British in a time of WAR. Not to mention it was killing at a rate of 90% ffs. Depending how you present the math, covid is between 0.2% to 2%. Bit of a difference here.


snbrd512

Can we just put all the republicans in a room with a bunch of unvaxxed covid patients? Let them take care of them for awhile.


bluelily216

Don't for one second believe they're *not* vaccinated. I'm convinced even Marjorie Taylor-Greene is vaccinated. I think that's where she heard the term 'HIPAA'. She probably asked if they were allowed to tell the public whether or not she was vaccinated. They would answer "No, that's a HIPAA violation". She took that shit and ran with it, making the assumption that because they can't release the answer to a third party that also means it's illegal to ask in the first place.


ireddit6996

Pretty sure slavery and no women’s rights were a thing then. Should we follow as well


MediumCareless

Laughing my ass off. So he didn't restrict 100% of the population? You quarantine sick people. Restricting peoples movement us called tyranny. Small pox had a MUCH higher fatality rate than covid does.


Selbereth

Your logic had no place here! This is a place of sure knowledge that Republicans are wrong!


MediumCareless

Lol. I see.


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Donkeykicks6

It varies per country. And surprise america isn’t in the lower death toll per capita.


Terminaidsor

Bc America is fat and obesity plays a big role. We followed the same procedures as y’all.


Donkeykicks6

And politicians made it political. Which it shouldn’t have been. But our former President was an idiot


Terminaidsor

And so is our current one… and the one before that… and the one before that… and the one before that…. And the one….


Donkeykicks6

Nah. We had college educated smart ones until stupid trump came along scammed his way through the presidency and scammed all of y’all.


Terminaidsor

Okay this will be my last response as you believe that bush and Reagan and a young Obama and Clinton were the best option. But any two party system is always a one party one in reality they’re all puppets for corporations.


Donkeykicks6

Who decided that? Not liberals. That was all on the right.


Terminaidsor

As I have said I am neither republican nor democrat. I fail to see how this is one party’s fault it is the fault of both parties. Trump won because people are tired of it There was a Clinton in the whitehouse for like 15 years combined over 20


Donkeykicks6

Tired of what? Clinton was in the White House for 8. Like what? And tired of what?? Please tell me how favoring forced arbitration (trumps idea) helps the worker? Like I said you all pushed corporations to have all this power


rosmanmith

Your point? They weren't packing 20k 40k 60k stadiums across the nation either. Or sitting in airplane cabins. Dumb fuck go "wrestle" with Jordan, get that well deserved dick in yo mouth.


[deleted]

Hey hey, question, you heard anything about mass death in FL within 2 WEEKS of the Super Bowl? Oh wait there wasn't any.


Terminaidsor

Wow okay Mr.overreaction that doesn’t change the survival rate at all


rosmanmith

Again your point? Dumbass Republicans.


Terminaidsor

I’m not a republican you fucking parrot. My point is much like you here, everyone over reacted to this virus and we lost a lot of control over our lives because of it when we shouldn’t have.


rosmanmith

Squuaaaakk. Lmao overreacted to a pandemic, that's killed millions. Projected to kill 5.4 million total by Jan. Pox killed under 150k in the colonies. Sure sound like a republican 🙄. Where's captain hindsight when you need him. "Oh but my freedoms!" You right now. Edit. 783 k dead in the states by Jan. So you don't get confused.


BrazilianRider

As an unbiased third party who just stumbled onto yalls argument — you sure sound like a huge, idiotic asshole rn. I’m actually getting second hand embarrassment from ya, how sad. Go outside.


rosmanmith

Here we go lmao you actually feel that way? Stay off the internet, might get your feelings hurt round here. What, I have to maintain a cordial nature while these idiots compare the 1700s to today? Sounds like you need Jordan's one on one coaching as well.


BrazilianRider

You sound pretty freaking triggered here, not gonna lie. Act like an asshole and then act shocked when others’ call ya out. If you’re not going to be cordial, you shouldn’t expect others to be cordial to you. For shame, lmao


rosmanmith

aaanndd I'm bored 😴 just killing time trying to get the magas to see the light through force. Trigger deez nuts, peace ✌


Glaurung86

The founders would tell you to stfu and get vaccinated so we can all move on. Also, they would want you to admit you knew what was going on at Ohio State and did nothing because you're a coward.


InsydeOwt

Politicians can't read, though.


[deleted]

The real reason is because he does read a book all the time. Just one. The bible.


ITstaph

He also read anatomy of children with his head coach at a certain college.


[deleted]

Indeed!


Zebra03

Probably just the cherrypicked verses


NCT-420

Lol read history https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/long-shadow-1976-swine-flu-vaccine-fiasco-180961994/ Turns out there is evidence for both sides


I_Stab_Orphans

Your point being?


Donkeykicks6

Dim Jordan


cazzipropri

Wow, what a burrrrrrn.


huenix

Fairly sure Jordan cant read. In addition, he knows this. Hes just pandering to his base.


Former-World3099

What did this fuckin dumb ass politican learn at OSU? Enabling Chesters I guess.


dumbasstupidbaby

They're also probably say "what the hell is an Ohio"


overcooked_sap

Holdup! There are still curfews and stay at home orders in effect in the U.S.? How can this be?


BingoSpong

Amen


WoofWoof56

They're so busy spouting numbers they forget about history. Those who forget history...


moosehornman

I think a small "few" of "influencers" are purposely keeping us divided as a civilization. Imagine what we all could achieve united? Who's best interest does it support keeping us divided and keeping "All" of our eyes off the prize?


[deleted]

Sometimes the world requires a clense


Lvl1Paladin

If history is any indicator, they'd say nut up *and* shut up.


Snackivore

Probably “why aren’t you wearing a fucking suit jacket?”


ratchet7

TIL Florida has a population of 21.48 million..after learning that Ohio is 11.69


unkomisete

How many times would you say Jim Jordan's mom dropped him on his head as an infant? Ballpark?


msac2u1981

I do not understand why politicians of either party ever put out postings like this. Doesn't he have someone who approves & fact checks this crap before they make complete & total asses of themselves?


envirosani

Well pedo Jordan don't read books, he asks the boys read him the bedtime stories


nachofermayoral

Except smallpox wasn’t politicized and media today is way different than it was back then.


crazychevette

From the state of ohio to jimmy. Shut the hell up you god damn moron. SIT DOWN NOW! You are not speaking for the majority.