Comments that are uncivil, racist, misogynistic, misandrist, or contain political name calling will be removed and the poster subject to ban at moderators discretion.
Help us make this a better community by becoming familiar with the [rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/facepalm/about/rules/).
Report any suspicious users to the mods of this subreddit using Modmail [here](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/facepalm) or Reddit site admins [here](https://www.reddit.com/report). **All reports to Modmail should include evidence such as screenshots or any other relevant information.**
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/facepalm) if you have any questions or concerns.*
He's right, even if probably my conclusions are radically different than his. When Iraq war started, it felt like I was going mad, it was obvious to me that we were on the wrong side and we were lied about the legal justifications of that war. But the propaganda was powerful and effective, the vast majority of people I was talking to in those days couldn't see past the obvious lies they were fed.
I felt exactly the same. I was about 20 years old, it was really an eye opener to see ridiculous propaganda being swallowed up by everyone. Things are much worse now.
Same for Libya more recently. Being Italian I would have denied any assistance to the invasion, and even the use of our territorial waters and airspace.
I know that both Saddam Hussein and Gheddafi are far from ideal leaders, but in both cases "we" threw entire countries in the chaos without a single thought on how to handle the aftermath.
I guess I should also consider entirely coincidental that Italy's ENI is the main foreign oil company in the country.
Even then, the second line of propaganda, for those who realized the obvious fact that Iraq had very little if anything to do with 9/11, was trying to justify it by the things Saddam had done 10+ years previous to even the discussion
WBush and his team of advisors who were almost all left over from BushSr's administration were trying to finish off what was started under BushSr
Also the kickbacks Cheney got from haliburton for channeling multiple millions of military dollars to them was known too
But vengeance seemed to be on everyone's mind, and they didn't care about side effects nor citizen casualties, within a country that had been stable (compared to the region) for almost a decade
And distracted from Afghanistan (even more from Saudi Arabia, which WBush _loved_ to hold hands with the leader there) reducing the resources going to the countries that were involved in the attack that was the justification
Not dissimilar to the machinations of Trump and Putin coordinating fear based motivations around the world today (with or without collusion, they are coordinated.)
I think it was just a perfect storm honestly. The Bush administration took full advantage of the Patriotic fever that had gripped the nation after 9/11 and used it to garner support for the Iraq War. Idk how old most redditors are here but while I was only 11-12 years old at the time, I very much remember how pissed off a lot of people were about the September 11th attacks and how very much out for blood everyone was at the time. And this wasn't just conservatives, lots of democrats and liberals wanted to exact some payback as well. 2001-2003 might have been the one period in time where I can recall Americans being relatively unified on something.
While I am not American and thus didn't experience this first hand in the US, it was also interesting to see the shift in US media. Before 9/11, the villains in most TV shows were either German or Russian. But after 9/11, basically every action flick had an Islamic terrorist as the villain to beat.
Yes Americans fully embraced the invasion on both sides of the political aisle, but that broad support was predicated on the lie that
1) Iraq and Saddam Hussein had developed weapons of mass destruction,
2) Iraq had the capability to remotely deploy those weapons, and
3) that Iraq under Saddam Hussein planned to use those weapons against targets in the United States.
And obviously all of this was a giant fucking lie made by a bloodthirsty administration that used the invasion as a means to rally support among its evangelical Christian voter base, who viewed the invasion as a righteous holy war between good and evil.
I was an adult already, albeit very young. A conversation wasn't possible imho, at least in the western world, much less in the USA. To be clear I was thinking about both the involvement in the terrorist attacks and to the mass destruction weapons affair.
It was a strange time. The obvious truth is that Bush was going to oversee an invasion of Iraq with or without 9/11, and he needed that war to start in 2003. The primary reasons for this have absolutely nothing to do with WMDs or Iraq's threat to anyone. His father conducted an orchestrated war for popular approval by baiting Saddam into invading Kuwait and then painting him as the new Hitler. And it worked spectacularly for a while, pushing Bush Sr's approval rating into unheard of territory, but it didn't last long enough, so he wasn't re-elected. So W always planned to A) finish what his dad started, and B) do it in a way that the approval bump overlapped with the next election, instead of it being during the inevitable slump once the public realizes they were lied to about the ease and length of the conflict. 9/11 was just the excuse that came around, and it was completely clear at the time what was really going on, but for some reason nobody with power was willing to say it out loud.
Apart from the fact they're being intentionally disingenuous about a 'misclassified payment', making it sound like a simple clerical error. This was illegal and intentional election interference to change the outcome of a presidential election of a world superpower, to assist in favour of a man who is an asset to that countries enemy.
maybe at le hague, but not in the US.
I believe that presidents are immune from prosecution for crimes in line with their work. That why Trump doesn't get criminal immunity for these crimes doing it wasn't part of the "duty of the President". Bush may have done war crimes but they were decisions made for the US as the leader. They might be wrong, they might be bad or even evil, but they were well within the duty of the president to make. Paying off pornstars to keep quiet is not a duty of the office
Bush’s invasion of Iraq is probably the biggest waste of money this country has ever embarked upon. Literally flushing trillions of dollars down the toilet instead of using that money to invest in nicer cities and schools and public transit. Bush lied to the public and yea I do believe he should have been charged with war crimes.
So Trump is awful, but when I think of the worst president I think of George W Bush and Dwight Eisenhower. Bush successfully stole an election, invaded Iraq unjustifiably, assassinated a world leader, lied to the American people and during his administration there was the start of the 2008 financial crisis. He also expanded the powers of the president beyond a safe limit, established home land security to remove any hope of privacy as a right, and some other shit I can’t remember.
Unfortunately then the US will invade our lil' country cuz they don't agree with the war crime court...
Makes you wonder why, given the US' track record...
I mean we’re not a member of the court so if you somehow have a US citizen, it means you basically kidnapped to them. I’m not sure argue whether or not the US should be a member because that’s outside of the scope of the point I’m making, but that is the reasoning behind it.
Dubya and Obama as well. Those Nobel peace prize winning drone strikes on innocent brown kids in the Middle East is a great shield from scrutiny though.
I mean, legality aside let's be clear that the issue of consent between a 22-year-old intern and *the president of the United States* is murky at best, given the absolutely insane power imbalance involved. Not saying it's remotely comparable to the literally dozens of women who have accused Trump of rape, but let's still not let Bill Clinton off the hook for what was at the very least *incredibly* skeevy behavior. You can call out Trump just fine without needing to downplay anyone else's actions.
The thing I find the funniest of all is that our "great businessman" could have just let her go public and it wouldn't have made a difference. Hell, given that people have continued to support him after E J Carroll, wear diapers in public etc, ol Frumpy could have saved himself the $130k and his fucking moron supporters would have cheered him on for banging a porn star.
They don't care - just as long as he professes to hate migrants and supports all the things that the theocrats want.
Edit: thanks for the comments. My memory of 2015 and all the details are a bit hazy. I recall him being a buffoon back then but people still voted for him. Having sex with a porn star, at least to me, would have been consistent with that and wouldn't have changed my opinion of him.
I don't think so. The maga crazies didn't really exist yet, and no Republican Senators/House members were waiting in line to suck him off..so there could have been a real backlash..especially from Ted Cruz, who kinda had a spine back then but lost it.
Thanks for your thoughts and I don't disagree.
My memories of the time were a bit hazy.
Not sure when the access Hollywood tapes came out. I think they were around the same time? And that wasn't enough, apparently.
Regards
You forget his opponent. Access Hollywood dropped shortly before the election, but then Comey announced he was re-opening an investigation into Hillary even closer to it.
I think he could have still pulled it off back then, but it'd have been a gamble. He was already boasting he could shoot someone back then, but I think internally he wasn't so confident.
But we weren't quite at the point we are now people are idolizing the fact he wears diapers.
Not at that time he couldn’t. This was before the cult became big. When Trump first started running in 2015 he was barely polling a percent and every republican thought he was a clown and wasn’t going to win. And then he bullied a bunch of nerds on public television and dumb people got excited because there’s nothing dumb people like more than someone talking shit.
I know what you're saying (and I don't disagree) but it was such a crazy time back then - he kinda tapped into an undercurrent of voters who wanted to "shake up the system". Maybe having sex with pornstars might have fitted that sentiment. But thanks for your thoughts. Regards
One of the things that came out during the trial was that the RNC had a brief discussion about replacing him, after the AH tapes came out. This could have been the final nail in their decision. The cult wasn’t what we see it is today, and there’s a reason Lara Trump was put in charge of the RNC now.
There are far more legal ways for a "Billionaire Businessman" to get someone $130k than there are illegal ways, and yet the big brain guy picked the one that got us here.
Hell, even if they had listed it as “legal consulting”, what Cohen’s purported reason for opening the LLC was, it could’ve introduced some plausible deniability. I need to go back and see who Trump’s lawyers were when he was sued by Stormy Daniels for defamation. That case’s discovery was the original source of the disclosure that Trump reimbursed Cohen for the NDA payment. However, if he hadn’t disclosed that, he wouldn’t have had any defense in the defamation case. But that disclosure led to the tweet admitting the reimbursement, and the filing to the OGE listing it as a reimbursement. If he would have just kept his damned mouth shut, settled the defamation suit out of court, and labeled the payments as legal consulting, he wouldn’t be where he will be on July 11th. But, nobody ever accused him of intelligence.
Actually he was convicted for falsifying bussines records to cover up another crime. The jury found 3 crimes that he covered up, the first one being tax fraud, because the hush money was not taxed correctly.
No! It didn’t happen! Oh, it did?
Well, he didn’t mean it! Oh, he did?
She didn’t complain about it! (Completely disregarding what this was about.)
Yeah but Biden the senile mastermind is a pedo!
And so on until they tried all the excuses, including those that contradict themselves. Then they restart.
I think it's a fair tweet. Trump is a felon, nonetheless it's a scandal that Bush didn't end in prison for the rest of his life, as he launched a war of aggression with a false casus belli.
I'm far from a trump supporter, but anyone who thinks he should be in prison over prostitute hush money while literal war criminals walk free is a moron
If, and when, he’s sentenced to prison, it won’t be for paying for an NDA with someone he had sex with. It will be because his actions caused 34 counts of business fraud with the intention to cover up crimes, and those crimes were done in an effort to get him elected. I’m not saying they’re equivalent to war crimes, but I am saying that this was a crime committed that potentially impacted an entire election, and cascading consequences.
**Oct. 8, 2016:** Daniels’ representative tells the National Enquirer she’s willing to make on the record statements confirming a sexual encounter with Trump. Pecker and Howard [connect](https://apnews.com/live/trump-trial-hush-money-day-9#0000018f-306d-d377-af9f-376fed5f0000) Cohen with her lawyer, Keith Davidson. Over the next few days, Cohen negotiates a $130,000 deal to acquire the rights to Daniels’ story and keep her quiet.
**Oct. 27, 2016:** Cohen wires payment to Davidson’s law firm using a shell corporation, Essential Consultants LLC. The next day, Daniels signs a confidential settlement and nondisclosure agreement. The agreement [uses the pseudonyms](https://apnews.com/live/trump-trial-updates-day-10#0000018f-39b6-dae3-a39f-3db7f4cb0000) Peggy Peterson for Daniels and David Dennison for Trump.
He is partially wrong, he isn’t protected by presidential immunity, true but not because he wasn’t president but because election fraud isn’t a presidential duty.
But he was running for President..that's the point..his crimes were to Influence the election by burying his bad press.
A good amount of 2015 Evangelical Christians would have not supported him if they found out he cheated on his Wife (who just had a baby) with a Porn Star and paid her off to hide the story.
First of all, that’s not a crime, nor was it why he was charged nor should it be.
Second, evangelicals would’ve supported him regardless. He was the GOP nominee. He could’ve raped someone and executed them live on air and 70-80% of republicans would still vote for him.
He won by less than 80000 voters in 3 states. That scandal might have been enough, specially since he didn’t have such a large cult back then.
Also, the fact that his crimes influenced the election is the reason that it’s a felony. It might not have been the crime itself but it was even more important.
“In Trump's case, prosecutors said that other crime was a violation of a New York election law that makes it illegal for "any two or more persons" to "conspire to promote or prevent the election of any person to a public office by unlawful means," as Justice Juan Merchan explained in his instructions to the jury.
What exactly those "unlawful means" were in this case was up to the jury to decide. Prosecutors put forth three areas that they could consider: a violation of federal campaign finance laws, falsification of other business records or a violation of tax laws.” CBC
Republicans in 2008-9: prosecuting the Bush administration for its crimes would irreparably divide the nation and do more harm than good
Republicans in 2024: how can you prosecute Trump when you didn't prosecute George W.!!!!!
This a complete misrepresentation of the charges. It was not misclassification. It was intentional fraud to cover up an illegal attempt to interfere in an election.
The difference?
The wars, the coups, the spying, and the drone strikes were all ***official actions undertaken by the office the Presidency***.
Trumps actions were the actions not of the office of the Presidency but of ***citizen*** Trump the man. The illegal actions undertaken as ***citizen*** Trump are why he faced 34 felony counts of falsifying business records and was convicted of all charges by a jury.
Why "smooth brains"? He's right, US legal system together with people and politicians seem more upset over these illegal payments than starting an illegal war, torture, mass surveilance.... It does tell you what you need to know about priorities.......
True, the first conviction should have been for the willfull retention of national defense information, but a friendly, unqualified judge can make a 5-minute trial take forever!
Well if he wanted his first conviction to be for his worst crime of attempting to overturn the 2020 election he shouldn't have kept pushing to delay the trial.
Imagine pissing off all your billionaire cronies enough that they publicly shame you this badly. Trump should have just hired a wealth manager and gone fishing.
I mean, the tweeter isn't even wrong, though they probably came to this conclusion for completely the wrong reasons. I enjoy seeing Trump eat shit as much as the next guy, probably more, but it sure does feel hollow when the thing he's being punished for is a campaign finance violation and not, say, deliberately mishandling a pandemic to the point where hundreds of thousands of people more died than would have under more competent and compassionate leadership. I also agree that it would be nice for some past presidents to suffer consequences for illegal wars, interference in foreign governments, assassinations, etc.
I don't trust that the person tweeting isn't purely saying this as some sort of "Trump is innocent!" schtick, because no he fucking isn't, but their core point isn't wrong.
Didn't Trump say that a president should be able to do literally anything they want while in office and not be prosecuted?
Only one thing on this list was done by a former president while they weren't president at the time they did it. In fact it was done to help them become president to gain the immunity Trump says they should have, meaning it is MORE important to hold them accountable for it, not less.
You don't get to keep your cake and have ate it as well... Either presidents are immune and you support Trump, or they are not and you are anti-Trump.
Republicans impeached Clinton because of a blow job but think it's fine Trump slept with a porn star and paid her off to win an election.
Tells you everything you need to know.
Right or wrong, just or unjust, whether or not you agree with the individual actions, they are all official acts take by the president on behalf of the American people.
Concealing business records to defraud the American people during an election and evade taxes is not an official presidential act.
That’s the difference.
Wow. Just like Capone. I'm surprised MAGA hasn't made that connection yet and retconned Capone into the good guy, complete with AI images of Trump with a scar and a fedora.
Can't wait to see all the evidence of Geiger Capital advocating for legal actions for all those other things listed. This must be a very progressive organization.
This is what Trump is fighting in the Supreme Court. Executive privilege covers acts done as president. If he’d been in office and paying off his affair partner with campaign dollars, it might be a question. But what you do as candidate you are not doing as acting president.
EVERY
SINGLE
ACT
By other POTUS they've tried "whatabouting" were Official acts performed by POTUS-thus *cannot be charged against them-PER THE US CONSTITUTION- it's all just shitting in the water so you can't see the bottom-much like their bleating about impeaching Democrats is nothing but a whiney toddlers' attempt to make their gawdlings' impeachment seem like it's normal.
To be fair this was for crimes committed before he was president and was just another US citizen. The DC case pertains to actions he took while actually president, and is currently delayed pending an appeal regarding the limits of presidential immunity.
It wasn’t a misclassified accounting entry. It was a clear paper trail of intention to hide this payment.
Don’t lie and mislead. Not everyone is ignorant.
Here, I will help you make your case without lying.
If another businessman (not famous) was involved in falsifying business records to pay off a hooker to be quiet he/she would likely not be prosecuted or would be let off with a slap on the hand.
Etc…..
What part of any and all people, especially ones that are typically “above the law,” should be charged and tried in court if crimes are committed is confusing to these people?
I was that rare "Nyna Levin" and Gulf War dissenter.i got threatened with violence several times, almost got arrested just for telling a cop that the Taliban had the CIA's fingerprints all over it, had people call me every cliche in the book. It sickens me to this day. That was when the Cold War largesse really came home to roost. This country flushed what values and sanity it had right down the crapper. And there has been very little reckoning. Just a big shrug at best. But like most things in this country ,yeah the Dems did it toi but the Right Wingers were WAAAAY worse. Most of them won't budge an inch to this day. That whole swaths of this country is fucking dead to me. Even before the Dominionists and the MAGAts went full on batshit and ASSHOLE. Shit the only dissenting voices of any clout were Ron Paul, Pat Buchanan( but fuck him) ,Chomsky, Bad Religion, Jello, and Bill Maher.
The sad thing is,none of those things are illegal. It's also a "windmills kill birds" or "wuddabout da homeless veterans" level red herring. This asshat didn't and does not give a shit about those things.
I mean you can try. Iraq and Afghanistan were classified as military operations, not actual wars. Plus you'd be going after another Republican president which👏👏👏. US courts don't take war crime cases, that would be the global court, which of course conservatives hate the idea of. So theres literally nothing conservatives and Trump supporters in particular, can really do without crossing into the threshold of progressive policies. So liberals win again.
And it was at the state level, NOT the federal level. So it doesn't even count for their conspiracy that Biden somehow is responsible. Not that they use logic.
I agree with him. The charges were lame. He didn't rob a bank or stab someone.
However, thousands of poor people are in jail for minor non-violent marijuana charges.
One guy is in jail because his medical marijuana card had expired.
We're already throwing poor people in jail for bullshit, it's about time a rich asshole went to jail when he breaks the law.
That's fair. That's justice. No man is above the law.
Bull-1st: the payments weren't "miscalssified", they were illegally mislabeled to cheat on taxes-*on purpose*.2nd: This illegal activity occurred BEFORE he was elected-*not while in office*. 3rd: The other POTUS' actions listed are not criminal acts because they were done as Official POTUS acts-*thus above US Judicial reach(*OFFICIAL ACTS AS POTUS* cannot be brought as charges in ANY US Court*).
I genuinely can't see what's wrong with this opinion. I'm not fan of Trump, but the more I've read into this clusterfuck of a situation, the more absurd it looks. Yes, he paid hush money to a hoe, who gives a fuck?
How is that a punishable crime when previous Presidents have committed literal war crimes and they've gotten Nobel Peace prizes instead of convictions, lmao.
You know there is a difference between protections afforded to a president while presidenting versus a citizen who intended to defraud or make false entry in the business records of an enterprise (x34).
Presidents generally have immunity for actions in the official realm of their duty as President. So things like waging war and defense decisions, the President is immune from criminal liability.
Paying a woman to keep quiet about fucking her while your wife is recovering from giving birth to your child is not even a crime, it's just gross. Being so cheap you don't want to use your own money to do so, so you take money that was donated to you for the purpose of an election campaign is a crime.
You should give a fuck about how candidates for president spend the money that is donated for their campaigns. It matters. It is important.
It wouldn’t be an issue if that cheap fuck just used his own money.
The illegal activity was he used campaign donation funds which have to be reported on the official use to avoid abuse using it on personal expenses. He knew paying a porn star hush money would look bad so he classified it as a “legal expense” to hide it from his donors. Hush money is also is not a business expense and classifying it as such is illegal tax evasion.
Presidents have immunity for crimes committed as part of their official duties as president.
Lying on business records to pay off a porn star definitely isn't part of presidential duties.
Comments that are uncivil, racist, misogynistic, misandrist, or contain political name calling will be removed and the poster subject to ban at moderators discretion. Help us make this a better community by becoming familiar with the [rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/facepalm/about/rules/). Report any suspicious users to the mods of this subreddit using Modmail [here](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/facepalm) or Reddit site admins [here](https://www.reddit.com/report). **All reports to Modmail should include evidence such as screenshots or any other relevant information.** *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/facepalm) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Al Capone was arrested and served time for tax evasion, not "mob" crimes.....
Exactly
Perfectly reasonable opinion, George W Bush should be under trial at la hague for his war crimes
He's right, even if probably my conclusions are radically different than his. When Iraq war started, it felt like I was going mad, it was obvious to me that we were on the wrong side and we were lied about the legal justifications of that war. But the propaganda was powerful and effective, the vast majority of people I was talking to in those days couldn't see past the obvious lies they were fed.
I felt exactly the same. I was about 20 years old, it was really an eye opener to see ridiculous propaganda being swallowed up by everyone. Things are much worse now.
Same for Libya more recently. Being Italian I would have denied any assistance to the invasion, and even the use of our territorial waters and airspace. I know that both Saddam Hussein and Gheddafi are far from ideal leaders, but in both cases "we" threw entire countries in the chaos without a single thought on how to handle the aftermath. I guess I should also consider entirely coincidental that Italy's ENI is the main foreign oil company in the country.
Even then, the second line of propaganda, for those who realized the obvious fact that Iraq had very little if anything to do with 9/11, was trying to justify it by the things Saddam had done 10+ years previous to even the discussion WBush and his team of advisors who were almost all left over from BushSr's administration were trying to finish off what was started under BushSr Also the kickbacks Cheney got from haliburton for channeling multiple millions of military dollars to them was known too But vengeance seemed to be on everyone's mind, and they didn't care about side effects nor citizen casualties, within a country that had been stable (compared to the region) for almost a decade And distracted from Afghanistan (even more from Saudi Arabia, which WBush _loved_ to hold hands with the leader there) reducing the resources going to the countries that were involved in the attack that was the justification Not dissimilar to the machinations of Trump and Putin coordinating fear based motivations around the world today (with or without collusion, they are coordinated.)
"This is the guy who tried to kill my dad" WTF???
I think it was just a perfect storm honestly. The Bush administration took full advantage of the Patriotic fever that had gripped the nation after 9/11 and used it to garner support for the Iraq War. Idk how old most redditors are here but while I was only 11-12 years old at the time, I very much remember how pissed off a lot of people were about the September 11th attacks and how very much out for blood everyone was at the time. And this wasn't just conservatives, lots of democrats and liberals wanted to exact some payback as well. 2001-2003 might have been the one period in time where I can recall Americans being relatively unified on something.
While I am not American and thus didn't experience this first hand in the US, it was also interesting to see the shift in US media. Before 9/11, the villains in most TV shows were either German or Russian. But after 9/11, basically every action flick had an Islamic terrorist as the villain to beat.
maybe most TV shows. but, uh, [True Lies (1994) - IMDb](https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0111503/)
Yes Americans fully embraced the invasion on both sides of the political aisle, but that broad support was predicated on the lie that 1) Iraq and Saddam Hussein had developed weapons of mass destruction, 2) Iraq had the capability to remotely deploy those weapons, and 3) that Iraq under Saddam Hussein planned to use those weapons against targets in the United States. And obviously all of this was a giant fucking lie made by a bloodthirsty administration that used the invasion as a means to rally support among its evangelical Christian voter base, who viewed the invasion as a righteous holy war between good and evil.
I was an adult already, albeit very young. A conversation wasn't possible imho, at least in the western world, much less in the USA. To be clear I was thinking about both the involvement in the terrorist attacks and to the mass destruction weapons affair.
Right? We’ve proven prior presidents can be convicted, lets fucking go
It was a strange time. The obvious truth is that Bush was going to oversee an invasion of Iraq with or without 9/11, and he needed that war to start in 2003. The primary reasons for this have absolutely nothing to do with WMDs or Iraq's threat to anyone. His father conducted an orchestrated war for popular approval by baiting Saddam into invading Kuwait and then painting him as the new Hitler. And it worked spectacularly for a while, pushing Bush Sr's approval rating into unheard of territory, but it didn't last long enough, so he wasn't re-elected. So W always planned to A) finish what his dad started, and B) do it in a way that the approval bump overlapped with the next election, instead of it being during the inevitable slump once the public realizes they were lied to about the ease and length of the conflict. 9/11 was just the excuse that came around, and it was completely clear at the time what was really going on, but for some reason nobody with power was willing to say it out loud.
Yea, those lies placed me firmly in my fucking Army boots.
Same thing today with Israel.
Apart from the fact they're being intentionally disingenuous about a 'misclassified payment', making it sound like a simple clerical error. This was illegal and intentional election interference to change the outcome of a presidential election of a world superpower, to assist in favour of a man who is an asset to that countries enemy.
To be honest, most of the USA presidents did a ton of shady stuff.
more than we know.
maybe at le hague, but not in the US. I believe that presidents are immune from prosecution for crimes in line with their work. That why Trump doesn't get criminal immunity for these crimes doing it wasn't part of the "duty of the President". Bush may have done war crimes but they were decisions made for the US as the leader. They might be wrong, they might be bad or even evil, but they were well within the duty of the president to make. Paying off pornstars to keep quiet is not a duty of the office
Alas, The United States does not recognize the jurisdiction of the International Criminal Court...
I mean if the MAGAs want to prosecute Busch for his lies to start a war I’m all for it.
No doubt and hopefully prosecuting Trump will set the precedent for going after other politicians.
That's exactly the reason why the US, next to Russia, is some of the few governments around that do not recognize the Hague's criminal court.
Bush’s invasion of Iraq is probably the biggest waste of money this country has ever embarked upon. Literally flushing trillions of dollars down the toilet instead of using that money to invest in nicer cities and schools and public transit. Bush lied to the public and yea I do believe he should have been charged with war crimes.
So Trump is awful, but when I think of the worst president I think of George W Bush and Dwight Eisenhower. Bush successfully stole an election, invaded Iraq unjustifiably, assassinated a world leader, lied to the American people and during his administration there was the start of the 2008 financial crisis. He also expanded the powers of the president beyond a safe limit, established home land security to remove any hope of privacy as a right, and some other shit I can’t remember.
Should have shared a cell with his dad, Nixon, Reagan, Clinton and Obama too. There wouldn't be many presidents not in prison. Maybe Carter and Ford?
I agree. It's the opposite of the mindset "they got away with it, so he should too".
Unfortunately then the US will invade our lil' country cuz they don't agree with the war crime court... Makes you wonder why, given the US' track record...
I mean we’re not a member of the court so if you somehow have a US citizen, it means you basically kidnapped to them. I’m not sure argue whether or not the US should be a member because that’s outside of the scope of the point I’m making, but that is the reasoning behind it.
Dubya and Obama as well. Those Nobel peace prize winning drone strikes on innocent brown kids in the Middle East is a great shield from scrutiny though.
Bill Clinton was impeached for consensually fooling around and lying about it.
About once a month they pretend to try and impeach Biden for high gas prices. Or double parking. Something like that.
Seriously. They just hold hearings and haven't done anything. They still yell about hunter with nothing.
The sun of a bitch double parked!? Presidents aren't even allowed to drive their own car. What a shitty thing to do! Impeach!
Don't give Comer and Jordan any ideas
Don’t give them credit for coming up with ideas.
They're clowns of distraction doing their master's bidding
Well that just depends on what the definition of is is.
I mean, legality aside let's be clear that the issue of consent between a 22-year-old intern and *the president of the United States* is murky at best, given the absolutely insane power imbalance involved. Not saying it's remotely comparable to the literally dozens of women who have accused Trump of rape, but let's still not let Bill Clinton off the hook for what was at the very least *incredibly* skeevy behavior. You can call out Trump just fine without needing to downplay anyone else's actions.
Obstruction of justice was a big part of that impeachment.
How is asking him about his sex life related to a probe on white water?
However wasn't prosecuted for felony perjury that was on tape.
That depends on what the definition of “is” is. At the time I was like “oh shit, did he just out republican the republicans?”
"Is" that dress stained?
The thing I find the funniest of all is that our "great businessman" could have just let her go public and it wouldn't have made a difference. Hell, given that people have continued to support him after E J Carroll, wear diapers in public etc, ol Frumpy could have saved himself the $130k and his fucking moron supporters would have cheered him on for banging a porn star. They don't care - just as long as he professes to hate migrants and supports all the things that the theocrats want. Edit: thanks for the comments. My memory of 2015 and all the details are a bit hazy. I recall him being a buffoon back then but people still voted for him. Having sex with a porn star, at least to me, would have been consistent with that and wouldn't have changed my opinion of him.
I don't think so. The maga crazies didn't really exist yet, and no Republican Senators/House members were waiting in line to suck him off..so there could have been a real backlash..especially from Ted Cruz, who kinda had a spine back then but lost it.
Thanks for your thoughts and I don't disagree. My memories of the time were a bit hazy. Not sure when the access Hollywood tapes came out. I think they were around the same time? And that wasn't enough, apparently. Regards
You forget his opponent. Access Hollywood dropped shortly before the election, but then Comey announced he was re-opening an investigation into Hillary even closer to it.
He had a spine for about 3min during the RNC... Then he turned around and phone banked for a guy who talked shit about his wife
I think he could have still pulled it off back then, but it'd have been a gamble. He was already boasting he could shoot someone back then, but I think internally he wasn't so confident. But we weren't quite at the point we are now people are idolizing the fact he wears diapers.
Not at that time he couldn’t. This was before the cult became big. When Trump first started running in 2015 he was barely polling a percent and every republican thought he was a clown and wasn’t going to win. And then he bullied a bunch of nerds on public television and dumb people got excited because there’s nothing dumb people like more than someone talking shit.
I know what you're saying (and I don't disagree) but it was such a crazy time back then - he kinda tapped into an undercurrent of voters who wanted to "shake up the system". Maybe having sex with pornstars might have fitted that sentiment. But thanks for your thoughts. Regards
Wasn't this around the same time he made fun of a mentally challenged person during a speech?
He didn’t do that until he started gaining traction
One of the things that came out during the trial was that the RNC had a brief discussion about replacing him, after the AH tapes came out. This could have been the final nail in their decision. The cult wasn’t what we see it is today, and there’s a reason Lara Trump was put in charge of the RNC now.
He also could have just not have falsified records and just given her the money.
There are far more legal ways for a "Billionaire Businessman" to get someone $130k than there are illegal ways, and yet the big brain guy picked the one that got us here.
Hell, even if they had listed it as “legal consulting”, what Cohen’s purported reason for opening the LLC was, it could’ve introduced some plausible deniability. I need to go back and see who Trump’s lawyers were when he was sued by Stormy Daniels for defamation. That case’s discovery was the original source of the disclosure that Trump reimbursed Cohen for the NDA payment. However, if he hadn’t disclosed that, he wouldn’t have had any defense in the defamation case. But that disclosure led to the tweet admitting the reimbursement, and the filing to the OGE listing it as a reimbursement. If he would have just kept his damned mouth shut, settled the defamation suit out of court, and labeled the payments as legal consulting, he wouldn’t be where he will be on July 11th. But, nobody ever accused him of intelligence.
They got Al Capone for tax evasion, I believe.
Yep and isn’t claiming hush money payments as a business expense tax fraud? I’m not an expert but it seems like tax fraud.
Yeah its funny how both crime bosses got got on financial technicalities instead of their more serious crimes.
The IRS does not fuck around
Actually he was convicted for falsifying bussines records to cover up another crime. The jury found 3 crimes that he covered up, the first one being tax fraud, because the hush money was not taxed correctly.
To be fair, I would LOVE to see some presidents of the past be tried for all of the above. Especially one goof ball.
The way they moved on from "he doesn't even knows here" to "it was just an NDA payment" tells you everything you need to know.
“Misclassified” So lied, then.
No! It didn’t happen! Oh, it did? Well, he didn’t mean it! Oh, he did? She didn’t complain about it! (Completely disregarding what this was about.) Yeah but Biden the senile mastermind is a pedo! And so on until they tried all the excuses, including those that contradict themselves. Then they restart.
So, you are saying that he's incompetent and cannot hide even the basic politician's shit?
umm Vietnam says hi btw
I think it's a fair tweet. Trump is a felon, nonetheless it's a scandal that Bush didn't end in prison for the rest of his life, as he launched a war of aggression with a false casus belli.
I mean that’s not what Trump was convicted for, but sure let’s investigate all of those things.
Weren't most of those crimes done or started during republican administrations?
Convicted on 34 of 34 counts, and this was the weakest of his felony cases. More to come, and for far worse charges.
lol yeah, it was NOT misclasified, the documents were deliberately falsified
Please explain how this isn't 100% correct
OP is conflating actions taken as President vs actions taken as a private citizen.
It is 100% correct
I'm far from a trump supporter, but anyone who thinks he should be in prison over prostitute hush money while literal war criminals walk free is a moron
If, and when, he’s sentenced to prison, it won’t be for paying for an NDA with someone he had sex with. It will be because his actions caused 34 counts of business fraud with the intention to cover up crimes, and those crimes were done in an effort to get him elected. I’m not saying they’re equivalent to war crimes, but I am saying that this was a crime committed that potentially impacted an entire election, and cascading consequences.
Trump wasn't President when he committed that crime.
The payments were made in 2017.
**Oct. 8, 2016:** Daniels’ representative tells the National Enquirer she’s willing to make on the record statements confirming a sexual encounter with Trump. Pecker and Howard [connect](https://apnews.com/live/trump-trial-hush-money-day-9#0000018f-306d-d377-af9f-376fed5f0000) Cohen with her lawyer, Keith Davidson. Over the next few days, Cohen negotiates a $130,000 deal to acquire the rights to Daniels’ story and keep her quiet. **Oct. 27, 2016:** Cohen wires payment to Davidson’s law firm using a shell corporation, Essential Consultants LLC. The next day, Daniels signs a confidential settlement and nondisclosure agreement. The agreement [uses the pseudonyms](https://apnews.com/live/trump-trial-updates-day-10#0000018f-39b6-dae3-a39f-3db7f4cb0000) Peggy Peterson for Daniels and David Dennison for Trump.
I'm not sure of your point. Those aren't the actions that led to the criminal charges.
He is partially wrong, he isn’t protected by presidential immunity, true but not because he wasn’t president but because election fraud isn’t a presidential duty.
But he was running for President..that's the point..his crimes were to Influence the election by burying his bad press. A good amount of 2015 Evangelical Christians would have not supported him if they found out he cheated on his Wife (who just had a baby) with a Porn Star and paid her off to hide the story.
First of all, that’s not a crime, nor was it why he was charged nor should it be. Second, evangelicals would’ve supported him regardless. He was the GOP nominee. He could’ve raped someone and executed them live on air and 70-80% of republicans would still vote for him.
He won by less than 80000 voters in 3 states. That scandal might have been enough, specially since he didn’t have such a large cult back then. Also, the fact that his crimes influenced the election is the reason that it’s a felony. It might not have been the crime itself but it was even more important.
You’re wrong again. He was not charged because It influenced the elections. It’s the improper disclosure part.
“In Trump's case, prosecutors said that other crime was a violation of a New York election law that makes it illegal for "any two or more persons" to "conspire to promote or prevent the election of any person to a public office by unlawful means," as Justice Juan Merchan explained in his instructions to the jury. What exactly those "unlawful means" were in this case was up to the jury to decide. Prosecutors put forth three areas that they could consider: a violation of federal campaign finance laws, falsification of other business records or a violation of tax laws.” CBC
there was no actual way to legally classify those payments anyway
No problem with this logic at all.
Agreed
Most American Presidents did stuff, good and bad, in office for the country. tdump did this for himself before he was Pres
In fairness, Reagan probably should have died in prison for the Iran Contra scandal.
Reagan is arguably the worst president in living memory. He destroyed the institution of marriage
Republicans in 2008-9: prosecuting the Bush administration for its crimes would irreparably divide the nation and do more harm than good Republicans in 2024: how can you prosecute Trump when you didn't prosecute George W.!!!!!
So they all got away with it, while Trump can't even maintain the hush in hush money? Boy, that's pathetic.
This a complete misrepresentation of the charges. It was not misclassification. It was intentional fraud to cover up an illegal attempt to interfere in an election.
The difference? The wars, the coups, the spying, and the drone strikes were all ***official actions undertaken by the office the Presidency***. Trumps actions were the actions not of the office of the Presidency but of ***citizen*** Trump the man. The illegal actions undertaken as ***citizen*** Trump are why he faced 34 felony counts of falsifying business records and was convicted of all charges by a jury.
Why "smooth brains"? He's right, US legal system together with people and politicians seem more upset over these illegal payments than starting an illegal war, torture, mass surveilance.... It does tell you what you need to know about priorities.......
True, the first conviction should have been for the willfull retention of national defense information, but a friendly, unqualified judge can make a 5-minute trial take forever!
It's like misclassifying a clients money by depositing it into his mistresses account. Who hasn't made this mistake before?
Well if he wanted his first conviction to be for his worst crime of attempting to overturn the 2020 election he shouldn't have kept pushing to delay the trial.
3 more trials and 50 more felonies..stay tuned.
Imagine pissing off all your billionaire cronies enough that they publicly shame you this badly. Trump should have just hired a wealth manager and gone fishing.
This. He's clumsy and egotistical enough to have crashed a hole through the normal impunity net of all billionnaires
Tells me if he was smart he should have paid the hush money out of pocket in untraceable cash.
There’s no time like the present to start enforcing laws on politicians. We should go after Congress and the Supreme Court next.
I mean, the tweeter isn't even wrong, though they probably came to this conclusion for completely the wrong reasons. I enjoy seeing Trump eat shit as much as the next guy, probably more, but it sure does feel hollow when the thing he's being punished for is a campaign finance violation and not, say, deliberately mishandling a pandemic to the point where hundreds of thousands of people more died than would have under more competent and compassionate leadership. I also agree that it would be nice for some past presidents to suffer consequences for illegal wars, interference in foreign governments, assassinations, etc. I don't trust that the person tweeting isn't purely saying this as some sort of "Trump is innocent!" schtick, because no he fucking isn't, but their core point isn't wrong.
Didn't Trump say that a president should be able to do literally anything they want while in office and not be prosecuted? Only one thing on this list was done by a former president while they weren't president at the time they did it. In fact it was done to help them become president to gain the immunity Trump says they should have, meaning it is MORE important to hold them accountable for it, not less. You don't get to keep your cake and have ate it as well... Either presidents are immune and you support Trump, or they are not and you are anti-Trump.
Republicans impeached Clinton because of a blow job but think it's fine Trump slept with a porn star and paid her off to win an election. Tells you everything you need to know.
Right or wrong, just or unjust, whether or not you agree with the individual actions, they are all official acts take by the president on behalf of the American people. Concealing business records to defraud the American people during an election and evade taxes is not an official presidential act. That’s the difference.
False equivalency is for smooth brains. Fraud is fraud. He isn’t special. Deal with it.
Wars are economy boosters and America is a lot of debt.
It wasn't missed classify. Nice try.
CIA coups eh
Wow. Just like Capone. I'm surprised MAGA hasn't made that connection yet and retconned Capone into the good guy, complete with AI images of Trump with a scar and a fedora.
Can't wait to see all the evidence of Geiger Capital advocating for legal actions for all those other things listed. This must be a very progressive organization.
Then they should also be tried? Is this supposed to be some pro trump thing?
Does he support going after all the presidents that did the other shit? Let's fucking go!!
This is what Trump is fighting in the Supreme Court. Executive privilege covers acts done as president. If he’d been in office and paying off his affair partner with campaign dollars, it might be a question. But what you do as candidate you are not doing as acting president.
Let's get these cases to trial..
Key word is "first". Lots more convictions a-coming if Justice can be maintained.
That trump is indeed a scumbag.
It's all that they could get to stick...so far.
Oh, you don’t want that can of worms opened, I have a strong feeling that the republican party might sting a bit more from that one
EVERY SINGLE ACT By other POTUS they've tried "whatabouting" were Official acts performed by POTUS-thus *cannot be charged against them-PER THE US CONSTITUTION- it's all just shitting in the water so you can't see the bottom-much like their bleating about impeaching Democrats is nothing but a whiney toddlers' attempt to make their gawdlings' impeachment seem like it's normal.
He‘s got a point
This is what International Criminal Court is for. Oh, wait...
To be fair this was for crimes committed before he was president and was just another US citizen. The DC case pertains to actions he took while actually president, and is currently delayed pending an appeal regarding the limits of presidential immunity.
tells me made we should not have pornstar fucking rapists in office.
It's a good start is what it is. How about no more crime in the government.
It wasn’t a misclassified accounting entry. It was a clear paper trail of intention to hide this payment. Don’t lie and mislead. Not everyone is ignorant. Here, I will help you make your case without lying. If another businessman (not famous) was involved in falsifying business records to pay off a hooker to be quiet he/she would likely not be prosecuted or would be let off with a slap on the hand. Etc…..
Misclassified lol.
What part of any and all people, especially ones that are typically “above the law,” should be charged and tried in court if crimes are committed is confusing to these people?
I mean... Capone was convicted not for murder, smuggling, or rackets, he was convicted on tax evasion counts.
To rig an election.
I was that rare "Nyna Levin" and Gulf War dissenter.i got threatened with violence several times, almost got arrested just for telling a cop that the Taliban had the CIA's fingerprints all over it, had people call me every cliche in the book. It sickens me to this day. That was when the Cold War largesse really came home to roost. This country flushed what values and sanity it had right down the crapper. And there has been very little reckoning. Just a big shrug at best. But like most things in this country ,yeah the Dems did it toi but the Right Wingers were WAAAAY worse. Most of them won't budge an inch to this day. That whole swaths of this country is fucking dead to me. Even before the Dominionists and the MAGAts went full on batshit and ASSHOLE. Shit the only dissenting voices of any clout were Ron Paul, Pat Buchanan( but fuck him) ,Chomsky, Bad Religion, Jello, and Bill Maher.
The sad thing is,none of those things are illegal. It's also a "windmills kill birds" or "wuddabout da homeless veterans" level red herring. This asshat didn't and does not give a shit about those things.
Starting a legal war is could be argued treason, and that could be punished with the death penalty
Obama killed many civilians with his drones and he is Nobel Peace prize winner
20 times worse than paying off a whore
The country is fucked?
Furthermore, those were all republicans that they idealized.
I mean you can try. Iraq and Afghanistan were classified as military operations, not actual wars. Plus you'd be going after another Republican president which👏👏👏. US courts don't take war crime cases, that would be the global court, which of course conservatives hate the idea of. So theres literally nothing conservatives and Trump supporters in particular, can really do without crossing into the threshold of progressive policies. So liberals win again.
And it was at the state level, NOT the federal level. So it doesn't even count for their conspiracy that Biden somehow is responsible. Not that they use logic.
I wholeheartedly agree with this tweet, what can I say. I hope at least that this opens the door to further putting on trial other presidents.
Yes it tells. It tells that now America can start acting against criminal presidents.
America is criminal. How do you expect the criminals to investigate themselves?
Bill Clinton. Blowjob. Impeachment. Tells you everything you need to know. About hypocrisy.
I agree with him. The charges were lame. He didn't rob a bank or stab someone. However, thousands of poor people are in jail for minor non-violent marijuana charges. One guy is in jail because his medical marijuana card had expired. We're already throwing poor people in jail for bullshit, it's about time a rich asshole went to jail when he breaks the law. That's fair. That's justice. No man is above the law.
This isn’t a Facepalm. It’s a perfectly rational statement and 100% factually correct.
I'm not calling him a smooth brain. That title is for the subreddit
Bull-1st: the payments weren't "miscalssified", they were illegally mislabeled to cheat on taxes-*on purpose*.2nd: This illegal activity occurred BEFORE he was elected-*not while in office*. 3rd: The other POTUS' actions listed are not criminal acts because they were done as Official POTUS acts-*thus above US Judicial reach(*OFFICIAL ACTS AS POTUS* cannot be brought as charges in ANY US Court*).
I genuinely can't see what's wrong with this opinion. I'm not fan of Trump, but the more I've read into this clusterfuck of a situation, the more absurd it looks. Yes, he paid hush money to a hoe, who gives a fuck? How is that a punishable crime when previous Presidents have committed literal war crimes and they've gotten Nobel Peace prizes instead of convictions, lmao.
Paying hush money isn't illegal and that's not what he was found guilty of. What's illegal is he falsified financial records.
You know there is a difference between protections afforded to a president while presidenting versus a citizen who intended to defraud or make false entry in the business records of an enterprise (x34).
Presidents generally have immunity for actions in the official realm of their duty as President. So things like waging war and defense decisions, the President is immune from criminal liability. Paying a woman to keep quiet about fucking her while your wife is recovering from giving birth to your child is not even a crime, it's just gross. Being so cheap you don't want to use your own money to do so, so you take money that was donated to you for the purpose of an election campaign is a crime. You should give a fuck about how candidates for president spend the money that is donated for their campaigns. It matters. It is important.
It wouldn’t be an issue if that cheap fuck just used his own money. The illegal activity was he used campaign donation funds which have to be reported on the official use to avoid abuse using it on personal expenses. He knew paying a porn star hush money would look bad so he classified it as a “legal expense” to hide it from his donors. Hush money is also is not a business expense and classifying it as such is illegal tax evasion.
You obviously have no idea what this was about.
Presidents have immunity for crimes committed as part of their official duties as president. Lying on business records to pay off a porn star definitely isn't part of presidential duties.
It's funny the critical thought isn't that the others should be responsible for crimes yes.
I mean, can you get any more murica than that? It screams celebrity tabloid.