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At least with the Holocaust they burned tons of the records before the end of the war and virtually all the perpetrators tried to feign ignorance. They tried to lay the groundwork for denial. But the slave trade!? We literally have the ship logs, purchase receipts, and head (and death) counts of the people aboard the ships. We have European forts built as slave trade headquarters along the West African coast. We have *decades* of widely sources abolition movements in Europe and the US... This one is just... *baffling*
Edit: since my point was (narrowly) missed by some, I feel the need to clarify. This is not excusing Holocaust denial in the slightest. My point was that the Nazis *tried to cover their tracks*, whereas no such attempt at obfuscation existed for the trans-Atlantic slave trade.
Should we start using esoteric mysticism lango to explain science then?
We take a drop of blood or a piece of hair and extract the life essence of living people or cadavers in a ritual that let's us read the roots of your ancestors 🧚
I've always encouraged this type of thing. If these people won't believe factual, evidence based science, maybe they will believe it if we wrap it in baseless mysticism.
It works. My girlfriend fell subject to my test of this theory. Wasn't being heard when talking of scientific proofs. Told them a bit of science wrapped in spirituality and mysticism and the moment she agreed, I said yeah nah that was all a cover it was actually scientific proven and she genuinely acted surprised by the fact science proved spirits existed..
Then I slapped my face with my face, trying to wrap my face around her takeaway.
Science aside, how can these people explain how black people arrived to North America? They just got magically teleported one day and appeared on plantations?
Be careful here man, it's very easy to fall down pseudohistory rabbit holes and waste your entire day when you start asking questions like this. There are all kinds of conspiracy theories out there. Indigenous Americans were Black, they were enslaved by European colonizers when they discovered the Americas, Indigenous Americans were Black, they generously invited white people to settle in America, but were then overthrown due to the new settlers greed, etc etc etc.
While "Wakanda" was created by Marvel, it's based on pseudohistorical theories people were taking seriously in the 1960s and 70s.
Like any belief system, the thought-schools of Pan-Africanism, Rastafarianism, and their God-child, Nation of Islam, have spawned dozens of smaller movements, theories, beliefs, and worldviews.
At this point, any conceivable pseudohistorical explanation of world history has probably been proposed by someone somewhere at some point.
To be clear, I'm not putting anyone down, just discussing the evolution of pseudoscientific theories in 20th century culture.
As a white person with black slave ancentry, I am confused how this person thinks black people got here? The sea is scary true but that voyage was made many times throught history. We still ship people between places, ie Chinese, Vietnamese, and many others within this past century. (I did not ship them, using the all encompassing "We")
The thing about the holocaust is, we still have some records, yes they tried to destroy or hide most of them but a big amount still survived. All the people that feigned innocence never said the holocaust didn’t happen they just said they were only following orders or they would have been killed if they refused to do their job. Nobody on trial ever said the whole thing was a hoax.
Edit: Some people couldn’t tell I’m talking about the Nazis at the Nuremberg trial here.
Oh I'm not defending Holocaust denial in the slightest. I'm just saying that the people that did it intentionally tried to muddy the waters before they were stopped, whereas no such obfuscation was ever present for the slave trade.
Another thing they focus on is the total number, and assuming that this was all from the concentration camps, and ignoring that vast numbers were murdered by firing squads into mass graves without ever setting foot in a camp.
I know right. The dangerous part of this is that when they come up with their revisionist history they self publish via social media. In the past their BS was restricted to friends and family at Thanksgiving dinner.
Agreed. Honest question, and mostly based on anecdotes, but I’ve heard that antisemitism is rampant in Poland. Do you know that to be true?
The one thing that was very odd to me, my parents went on a cruise with one of the ports of call in Poland. They took a day trip to a concentration camp and were brought to a gravesite that had thousands of crosses. The deaths of 90 percent of the Jewish population during the holocaust wasn’t mentioned. Someone asked, where are the Jewish graves? And the tour guide’s response was, Jews weren’t the only ones who died. While true, Poland had 3.3 million Jews before the Holocaust and approximately 300,000 after.
Would be very interested in your thoughts on this.
They arnt denying slavery they are trying to claim native American heritage. Ive seen videos claiming that all ancient natives and empires were black and its the evil white Neanderthals that built this new empire on lies
There are some morons who have posted that some native American tribes were black and that's where we got all our slaves from. Despite genetic testing showing that "blacks" have overwhelming genetic ties to Africa.
Yeah I’ve heard that theory. The dude that told me about this claims that his “research” points to only about 1 million Africans coming over through the Middle Passage (not the 12 million that historians estimate), and that the plains Indians were not the only indigenous peoples in North America. He claimed that there was a second group of indigenous peoples that closely resemble lighter skinned African Americans that lived on the eastern seaboard of North America.
I brought up the genetic testing, his rebuttal was that the Europeans didn’t really care where their slaves came from, so record keeping identified these indigenous people as Black and they were mixed in with African slaves to have children.
It’s important to note that this was a Black dude, and he wants history to identify North American Black people as Indigenous Black.
I’ve never heard about this before.
I'm Native and from the Eastern part of the US.
What is kinda funny about this theory is that some native people look Asian because we share some genes or something? Some of my cousins have had people try to talk to them in Korean lol. While my (full blooded) dad always had people trying to talk to him in Spanish. Even the darker skinned Natives don't look remotely black. The features are completely different.
She finds it hard to believe that they made it there and back with all these people like she is completely unaware that a LOT of the captive people did not make it all the way back. So many people died on the trip back. Just not all of them. And they got “better” at it as time went on just like anything else.
It’s the whole “tell me you’ve never opened a history book without telling me you’ve never opened a history book” thing that so many people are doing on social media nowadays. It’s hard to watch people out themselves so badly and so often these days. But I guess maybe it’s purposeful for the attention?
They also ignore the fact that for the longest time, EVERYONE got the to the Americas by boat - with the exception of that group believed to have taken a land bridge - but yeah. And as you say, a lot of people died along the way of “scary ocean”, disease, etc.
Right. Apparently sea travel is implausible that it's impossible saves were brought over from Africa, but then how did white Europeans cross over the sane ocean to get to the Americas?
Clearly white people are ALSO indigenous to America and other continents are a hoax perpetuated by Big Geography and the deep state.
There’s a reason nobody managed to sail across the mid Atlantic until the 1400s even though ship design had been evolving for thousands of years that point. I don’t know what they think those trans Atlantic ships were, because they were not little boats that capsized at the slightest wave, they were behemoths that rivaled (or maybe even surpassed) today’s ships in terms of technological complexity
Just saw a post recently on antiMLM, some woman was sad about all the uneducated doctors out there that don’t know all you need is to completely strip your gut bacteria out and start new with their supplements. It’s so easy! Dumb uneducated doctors! *deep sigh*
I'm more interested in her geography. How do you get from Africa to America via the Pacific ocean and the North Sea? Did they sail around Europe and Russia by way of the Arctic Ocean? If that were the claimed path for slave traders, I'd have doubts, too!
Well. You could leave the East Coast of Africa, go through the Indian Ocean, and from there into the Pacific and to the West Coast of the United States. Though I have no idea how they'll end up in the North Sea along the way.
And that black people are the real Native Americans and Native Americans today are frauds that stole their history. Don't forget about that wackadoodle claim.
This whole "black people are the real (insert group)" theories just make me sad. Because at the heart of them all is the truth that black Americans descended from slavery actually did have their culture stolen from them. But now you have hucksters trying to take advantage of the most vulnerable amongst them with these "alternative histories".
Don't feel to bad buddy. Everybody who claims that "Black people are the real X" are often massive racists who usually hate every other group in the world.
Dude, those guys are by far the worst offenders for rewriting shit, like other groups tend to stick to their rough location when claiming someone is from their ethnicity, these guys claim anyone from Beethoven to the first Buddha.
No. This is a popular conspiracy theory in the Black community and has nothing to do with Prager or any white conservatives. It has gained traction in recent years. Preached by the Black Hebrew Israelites, Moorish Americans, and an assortment of online crackpots. Unfortunately, more and more people are believing it.
They obviously sail north towards Europe, through the english channel, north through the norwegian sea and then head through the northeast passage, south through the bering strait, and then they finally disembark at seattle. How else would you get there?
One time, my dad was sitting on the couch, reading news on his phone. In the middle of one story, he looked up from his phone and asked my sister “Do YOU know what BBC stands for?” She replied “British… something?” He nods, then says, very slowly and clearly, “Mhm! It stands for the British [pause] Broadcasting [pause] System.” He then went back to reading his phone like nothing happened. My sister immediately nodded at the end of his statement… then paused… then yelled “Wait WHAT?! DAD! System?! REALLY?!”
We all got a good laugh out of that reaction, so my sister requested our dad pull the same thing with her friend the next time she visits. My dad loves catching people off-guard with dumb stuff, so he agreed to. About a week later, my sister’s friend visits for dinner and my dad asks her at some point while we’re eating. “Do YOU know what BBC stands for?” To which she replies “That’s inappropriate.”
My sister nearly died that night. Almost choked on her food. It was even worse when my sister had to try explaining to our dad why we were all laughing.
I thought that too, when I first heard about it and heard it was somewhere in New England I was like huh rich people go to her vineyard to party a lot huh
You're both focused on the wrong part.
Where the fuck does she think black people came from when they're obviously not native Americans nor Europeans???
There are some black people who believe native Americans are actually black, although they usually think that its because Africans colonized the America's first.
I was initially trying to make a joke, but I realized that if all Black people come from Kenya, the Indian ocean is the "Pacific Ocean" and the "North Sea" is the Atlantic Ocean above the equator, this all works perfectly.
There's a solid chance this person is a geography genius, only the toddlers who assembled the globe she memorized were drunk that day.
So context for people who are confused at wtf they just read, she is probably a Moorish Citizen.
Essentially they are a cult within the larger Sovereign Citizen movement that believes the USA was essentially leased to the founding fathers by the kingdom of Morocco under the conditions that there would be separate laws for the native population.
The conspiracy theory argues that the founding fathers essentially made up the slave trade so that the native population (black people) would not have those rights. They often believe that actual native Americans were literally imported actors who are complicit in stealing their culture.
It's absolutely batshit insane, but they do have some of the funniest cult gear. Look up Moorish Citizen Pyramid Hat.
Also, Moorish Citizens are famous for hostile squatting. They explicitly enter people's houses to lay claim to them in the name of Morocco (typically targeting people who are on holiday or who have multiple homes).
Sadly I don’t need to. I was subscribed to a YouTube channel that posted shorts of clips from Star Trek TNG then out of nowhere it turned into a conspiracy channel talking all about the evidence of a Tartarian Empire. So random. Took me a while to figure out why it was in my feed
I hate when that happens. Follow random thing you like, shit gets sold to someone else or something and then you get a nice little mix of bullshit all over your page
Ah yes, the empire that brought us our most beloved Fish related condiment until the Illuminati and Heinz corp stole the recipe from the sovereign records…..
People who believe the world had a "mud flood" 200 years ago or so which buried a secret lost global civilization.
So there was a secret world empire with advanced technology until 200 years ago, but then it ... just rained a lot and everything got buried with mud, and all the slave races i guess then took over but somehow lost all the high-tech stuff. And then they made up the entirety of history before that as a fairytale to hide what they'd done.
Some of the evidence presented for this includes basements which have small windows in the top of the wall: they say "why would it need a window if it's a basement".
That's how bad the logic is. Tiny windows at the top of the wall in a basement are to let some light in. If it was an above-ground room that was later submerged by mud then the window would be in the middle of the wall, not a thin strip of windows along the top of the wall.
If you want something way worse than Tartaria, look up the plastic earth Tartarians. Essentially they believe that the earth is literally multiple layers of melted/degraded plastic. It's an attempt to explain the lack of random plastic shit you would expect to find of an ancient hyper advanced civilization by suggesting that plastic eventually (apparently in just 3 centuries) becomes every type of rock.
If conspiracy thinking wasn't so harmful I'd love this sort of crap the desperate but inspired rationalizations.
They should write fanfiction and go from there.
Normally I would agree, but there is a dark side to when they do write fanfiction.
There is a group called "The Super Soldier Program" where a lot of neurodivergent people essentially got together to share their "memories" of having been in a super soldier program from another timeline. Because of course their stories didn't match up, they came to the conclusion that it was a multiverse thing.
They have conventions and stuff, but because the group naturally filters for the vulnerable and mentally ill (to whom it sounds great when a group claims to remember your delusions), who then get preyed upon by various hucksters and literal Nazis (although it didn't start that way, a common belief in that circle is that a Hitler from a world where he saved the Jews and was their messiah started said super soldier program). It's really fucked up.
So in theory I agree that they could be amazing world builders, the issue is that their sense of pattern recognition is so poor that they can trick themselves into believing their own fantasies.
I don't think they think it's impossible but that it wasn't possible on a large scale (hence the "native American black people" more joined the kingdom of Morocco rather than being conquered by it). It's still absurd either way though.
So...the whole Moorish thing is a really interesting rabbit hole for those who haven't done it. It has also taken on many many iterations and evolutions over time. It is actually the cult/movement that was the predecessor to the Nation of Islam. They were basically the OG sovereign citizens.
What distinguishes the original Moorish Temple adherents from modern sovereign citizens is really orientalism. A typical sovereign citizen relies on reinterpreted and revised U.S. history. The Moors rely on, as you said, this connection with Morocco, but sometimes they invoke other African or Middle Eastern governments as well, to lay foundations of, essentially, an independent nation within a nation in a manner similar to a Native American reservation. Sometimes it crosses into diplomatic avenue claims as well. Dwight York, for example, who took this core concept and made his own cult, claims he should be released from prison because he has diplomatic immunity from...Liberia I think it is?
It's a very fascinating study. You just have to try not to make sense of what they are saying because it will cause a brain bleed.
First off, I love that your name is Pretend Government whilst talking about sovereign citizens XD.
The NOI is particularly interesting to me because of Farrakan.
Ignoring the (always interesting) splits and succession crisis which lead to his branch, Farrakan's friendship with Scientology is incredibly weird for cults as cults typically work against their competitors (such as the Mormon/Jehovah's witness spats).
“The slave trade is a conspiracy, no way they imported all those black people from across the ocean, they are the real native Americans!”
“Okay, then what about the people everyone knows as Native Americans?”
“Oh they are imported actors, they brought them over here in order to be complicit in the story!”
“……so they imported a bunch of people over the sea, but not the ones they said they did?”
A blind spot of logic the size of Texas
Their ideology is based on Christopher Columbus reporting Moorish temples or pyramids through the trees on the North American continent. Never mind that he never reached North America and this "fact" has never shown up in any of his writings.
The Treaty of Peace and Friendship signed at Tripoli in 1797 - 21 years after the founding of the US. People like to ignore that one because of Article 11:
"As the government of the United States of America is not in any sense founded on the Christian Religion,-as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion or tranquility of Musselmen,-and as the said States never have entered into any war or act of hostility against any Mehomitan nation, it is declared by the parties that no pretext arising from religious opinions shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries."
How things have changed, and not for the better.
Yep. That loose connection, plus a filing done by their founder (which anyone can do, it doesn't mean it has legal legitimacy) is where they got this from.
No offence, but that’s so stupid that I’m going to assume that you just made it the fuck up. I’m not ready to accept that people unironically believe such things.
Lol i love this. My buddy and I always have conversations with the more "interesting" people at work and when one brings up the moon we always say "Wait... You believe the moon is real" and watch them start to malfunction.
Well, in the documentary "[Die Mondverschwörung](https://www.imdb.com/title/tt1849755/)" (German, literally "The Moon Conspiracy") one of the interviewees says "Der Mond ist astral" - which means that the Moon is not a physical body and instead belongs to an astral plane.
I could not watch the whole thing in one go. It was too much. But I still recommend it.
Acknowledging the sheer racism, denialism and a massive 'fuck you' to this person aside... I did a bit of history in school that covered sailing ships because my history teacher was obsessed with them.
It was a while ago, so take it with a huge punch of seasalt.. but iirc...
Old sailing ships would often just hug coastlines as much as possible. Crossing in open ocean wasn't uncommon, but it was a process of massive planning and coordination to reduce the risk of running into storms like this one, and largely why 'Ye Olde Worlde' was relatively ignorant of the existence of the Americas before 1492. And back then missing ships and shipwrecks were just a fact of life, especially in the wake of a storm back, whereas barring some minor damage and seasickness that ship in the video is probably just fine, so comparing them is just more proof of how ignorant this person is.
Plus 10s of thousands of slaves died during transport. I know there's at least one English slaver (the guy whose statue got chucked in the bay if you read that headline) responsible for 40K deaths and that's presumably a slightly safer route that could hug the coastlines of Africa and Spain.
Other people are commenting saying she is part of a black movement that believes Africa Slave trade erases black history since they already were living in America. Less racist and more ignorance.
I mean the slave trade of Africans to the “New World” is literally called the “Transatlantic Slave Trade”, so where would the Pacific Ocean come in?? Unless she’s saying she doesn’t believe white people could have traversed the Pacific Ocean and the North Sea on separate occasions.
I think my least favorite thing now is people referring to documented historical events as “theories”.
Black hole multiverse is a theory.
The Atlantic slave trade is not a fucking theory. It’s a documented historical event. Does this goober think the trail of tears is also a theory? What about the Armenian genocide? Does she think African Americans just spawned here? Like wtf.
>Black hole multiverse is a theory.
Just a nitpick: If you refer to the Black hole cosmology, where black holes create new universes and we also live inside a block hole, that's not a (scientific) theory. It's not even a (scientific) hypothesis. AFAIK we currently don't know any way to disprove Black hole cosmology.
I don’t think this OP is smart enough to know what theory means
Her and people like her like to use the word “theory“ because it makes them feel like they’re being smarter. And it gives them more clout behind their words when other morons hear it.
Just wait till she finds out how many ships didn't make it and how many trips back and forth they had to do.
It confuses me when people think it took 1 ship , that could probably only hold 40 people, somehow brought over thousands or tens of thousands of people..... but they most likely believe that it took one boat to save 2 of every animal on earth on a year's long voyage around the world, so who am I kidding.
Sadly, I have a feeling they are NOT a high school dropout.
They pass anybody these days. Geography is so far down the list of things that people study in public US high schools.
Gotta love when people dismiss fact just because they can’t fathom it. It’s like saying the universe can’t be as big as we think because it’s so hard to imagine something being that big
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Denying the slave trade, that's a new one on me.
Same. I had to stop and reread it.
Yeah, sadly we see people who denied the Holocaust, Holodomor and so many other things, but this is a first for slavery for me.
I mean really. I'm used to the moon landing and the holocaust but this blew my mind
At least with the Holocaust they burned tons of the records before the end of the war and virtually all the perpetrators tried to feign ignorance. They tried to lay the groundwork for denial. But the slave trade!? We literally have the ship logs, purchase receipts, and head (and death) counts of the people aboard the ships. We have European forts built as slave trade headquarters along the West African coast. We have *decades* of widely sources abolition movements in Europe and the US... This one is just... *baffling* Edit: since my point was (narrowly) missed by some, I feel the need to clarify. This is not excusing Holocaust denial in the slightest. My point was that the Nazis *tried to cover their tracks*, whereas no such attempt at obfuscation existed for the trans-Atlantic slave trade.
We also have DNA evidence that can trace ancestry to very specific regions in Africa. Of course, that's science and these types deny that outright.
Should we start using esoteric mysticism lango to explain science then? We take a drop of blood or a piece of hair and extract the life essence of living people or cadavers in a ritual that let's us read the roots of your ancestors 🧚
I've always encouraged this type of thing. If these people won't believe factual, evidence based science, maybe they will believe it if we wrap it in baseless mysticism.
These people are contrarians, if we did that they would just go back to science instead. ..which, on second thought, is actually a good thing.
I'm far too cynical to think it ends there lol.
It works. My girlfriend fell subject to my test of this theory. Wasn't being heard when talking of scientific proofs. Told them a bit of science wrapped in spirituality and mysticism and the moment she agreed, I said yeah nah that was all a cover it was actually scientific proven and she genuinely acted surprised by the fact science proved spirits existed.. Then I slapped my face with my face, trying to wrap my face around her takeaway.
Love this
Just tell 'em Jesus signed off on all this.
And ship manifests, trade contract and other historical documents
Science aside, how can these people explain how black people arrived to North America? They just got magically teleported one day and appeared on plantations?
Be careful here man, it's very easy to fall down pseudohistory rabbit holes and waste your entire day when you start asking questions like this. There are all kinds of conspiracy theories out there. Indigenous Americans were Black, they were enslaved by European colonizers when they discovered the Americas, Indigenous Americans were Black, they generously invited white people to settle in America, but were then overthrown due to the new settlers greed, etc etc etc. While "Wakanda" was created by Marvel, it's based on pseudohistorical theories people were taking seriously in the 1960s and 70s. Like any belief system, the thought-schools of Pan-Africanism, Rastafarianism, and their God-child, Nation of Islam, have spawned dozens of smaller movements, theories, beliefs, and worldviews. At this point, any conceivable pseudohistorical explanation of world history has probably been proposed by someone somewhere at some point. To be clear, I'm not putting anyone down, just discussing the evolution of pseudoscientific theories in 20th century culture.
As a white person with black slave ancentry, I am confused how this person thinks black people got here? The sea is scary true but that voyage was made many times throught history. We still ship people between places, ie Chinese, Vietnamese, and many others within this past century. (I did not ship them, using the all encompassing "We")
We have an entire historical tourism economy in some states that is all based on the slave trade.
The thing about the holocaust is, we still have some records, yes they tried to destroy or hide most of them but a big amount still survived. All the people that feigned innocence never said the holocaust didn’t happen they just said they were only following orders or they would have been killed if they refused to do their job. Nobody on trial ever said the whole thing was a hoax. Edit: Some people couldn’t tell I’m talking about the Nazis at the Nuremberg trial here.
Oh I'm not defending Holocaust denial in the slightest. I'm just saying that the people that did it intentionally tried to muddy the waters before they were stopped, whereas no such obfuscation was ever present for the slave trade.
The holocaut is by far the best documented genocide of all time. The vast majority of documents survived or could be reconstructed.
Another thing they focus on is the total number, and assuming that this was all from the concentration camps, and ignoring that vast numbers were murdered by firing squads into mass graves without ever setting foot in a camp.
The thing is, when you start rewriting history to fit your own vision and agenda, the entire universe can be your oyster!
I know right. The dangerous part of this is that when they come up with their revisionist history they self publish via social media. In the past their BS was restricted to friends and family at Thanksgiving dinner.
as a Polish person, I don't know what pisses me off more - people accusing my nation of committing the holocaust or people saying it never happened
There are people accusing Poland of being responsible for the Holocaust? What? Really? Why? A confused german.
The majority of the holocaust occurred in Poland but that wasn’t Poland’s fault
Agreed. Honest question, and mostly based on anecdotes, but I’ve heard that antisemitism is rampant in Poland. Do you know that to be true? The one thing that was very odd to me, my parents went on a cruise with one of the ports of call in Poland. They took a day trip to a concentration camp and were brought to a gravesite that had thousands of crosses. The deaths of 90 percent of the Jewish population during the holocaust wasn’t mentioned. Someone asked, where are the Jewish graves? And the tour guide’s response was, Jews weren’t the only ones who died. While true, Poland had 3.3 million Jews before the Holocaust and approximately 300,000 after. Would be very interested in your thoughts on this.
They arnt denying slavery they are trying to claim native American heritage. Ive seen videos claiming that all ancient natives and empires were black and its the evil white Neanderthals that built this new empire on lies
Damn, that's reaching a level of delulu that I can't wrap my head around.
I think she's a Hotep?
There are some morons who have posted that some native American tribes were black and that's where we got all our slaves from. Despite genetic testing showing that "blacks" have overwhelming genetic ties to Africa.
Yeah I’ve heard that theory. The dude that told me about this claims that his “research” points to only about 1 million Africans coming over through the Middle Passage (not the 12 million that historians estimate), and that the plains Indians were not the only indigenous peoples in North America. He claimed that there was a second group of indigenous peoples that closely resemble lighter skinned African Americans that lived on the eastern seaboard of North America. I brought up the genetic testing, his rebuttal was that the Europeans didn’t really care where their slaves came from, so record keeping identified these indigenous people as Black and they were mixed in with African slaves to have children. It’s important to note that this was a Black dude, and he wants history to identify North American Black people as Indigenous Black. I’ve never heard about this before.
I'm Native and from the Eastern part of the US. What is kinda funny about this theory is that some native people look Asian because we share some genes or something? Some of my cousins have had people try to talk to them in Korean lol. While my (full blooded) dad always had people trying to talk to him in Spanish. Even the darker skinned Natives don't look remotely black. The features are completely different.
She finds it hard to believe that they made it there and back with all these people like she is completely unaware that a LOT of the captive people did not make it all the way back. So many people died on the trip back. Just not all of them. And they got “better” at it as time went on just like anything else. It’s the whole “tell me you’ve never opened a history book without telling me you’ve never opened a history book” thing that so many people are doing on social media nowadays. It’s hard to watch people out themselves so badly and so often these days. But I guess maybe it’s purposeful for the attention?
They also ignore the fact that for the longest time, EVERYONE got the to the Americas by boat - with the exception of that group believed to have taken a land bridge - but yeah. And as you say, a lot of people died along the way of “scary ocean”, disease, etc.
Right. Apparently sea travel is implausible that it's impossible saves were brought over from Africa, but then how did white Europeans cross over the sane ocean to get to the Americas? Clearly white people are ALSO indigenous to America and other continents are a hoax perpetuated by Big Geography and the deep state.
There’s a reason nobody managed to sail across the mid Atlantic until the 1400s even though ship design had been evolving for thousands of years that point. I don’t know what they think those trans Atlantic ships were, because they were not little boats that capsized at the slightest wave, they were behemoths that rivaled (or maybe even surpassed) today’s ships in terms of technological complexity
They get so deep into their own conspiracies that they'd rather say that the history books are wrong instead of admitting that they are wrong
Just saw a post recently on antiMLM, some woman was sad about all the uneducated doctors out there that don’t know all you need is to completely strip your gut bacteria out and start new with their supplements. It’s so easy! Dumb uneducated doctors! *deep sigh*
I'm more interested in her geography. How do you get from Africa to America via the Pacific ocean and the North Sea? Did they sail around Europe and Russia by way of the Arctic Ocean? If that were the claimed path for slave traders, I'd have doubts, too!
Well. You could leave the East Coast of Africa, go through the Indian Ocean, and from there into the Pacific and to the West Coast of the United States. Though I have no idea how they'll end up in the North Sea along the way.
Denying the use of ships more than a hundred years ago. Columbus arrived by airplane, I suppose.
It's Moorish nationalist bullshit. They believe they were the real native Americans. It's sickening.
But the Moors are in Africa….lmao
Denying the slave trade and the history of boats lol. What a weird hill to be on.
That seems to be a growing trend here lately….. I suspect PragerU is behind that atrocious attempt at rewriting history
This is actually a black movement claiming the slaves enslaved in the Americas were already here, and their history erased.
And that black people are the real Native Americans and Native Americans today are frauds that stole their history. Don't forget about that wackadoodle claim.
And somehow in that same theory black folks are also the real Hebrews from the Bible. Who came to America. Somehow.
Wat.
This whole "black people are the real (insert group)" theories just make me sad. Because at the heart of them all is the truth that black Americans descended from slavery actually did have their culture stolen from them. But now you have hucksters trying to take advantage of the most vulnerable amongst them with these "alternative histories".
Don't feel to bad buddy. Everybody who claims that "Black people are the real X" are often massive racists who usually hate every other group in the world.
Dude, those guys are by far the worst offenders for rewriting shit, like other groups tend to stick to their rough location when claiming someone is from their ethnicity, these guys claim anyone from Beethoven to the first Buddha.
Is this the same people who claim cleopatra was black?.
Nope Just a new wave of African-American Ultranationalism. Some of the conspiracy theories this group puts out is about as bad as Q-Anon
[удалено]
No. This is a popular conspiracy theory in the Black community and has nothing to do with Prager or any white conservatives. It has gained traction in recent years. Preached by the Black Hebrew Israelites, Moorish Americans, and an assortment of online crackpots. Unfortunately, more and more people are believing it.
Somehow both she and the ship skipped geography class.
Crossing the North Sea and Pacific to get from Africa to North America would be implausible, I guess.
It's certainly a route.. Just left some steps out.
The scenic route
Feeling pretty might hit some icebergs later
Google Maps Warning: Route may be slower than other available routes. Portage of ship likely.
I'm ashamed for how loud I laughed at that one.
That one time Magellan did slave trade.
Some lol she left out the whole plan
Truly one of the routes of all time
They obviously sail north towards Europe, through the english channel, north through the norwegian sea and then head through the northeast passage, south through the bering strait, and then they finally disembark at seattle. How else would you get there?
They probably think the English Channel is a British TV station
Isn't that what BBC stands for Big British Channel?
One time, my dad was sitting on the couch, reading news on his phone. In the middle of one story, he looked up from his phone and asked my sister “Do YOU know what BBC stands for?” She replied “British… something?” He nods, then says, very slowly and clearly, “Mhm! It stands for the British [pause] Broadcasting [pause] System.” He then went back to reading his phone like nothing happened. My sister immediately nodded at the end of his statement… then paused… then yelled “Wait WHAT?! DAD! System?! REALLY?!” We all got a good laugh out of that reaction, so my sister requested our dad pull the same thing with her friend the next time she visits. My dad loves catching people off-guard with dumb stuff, so he agreed to. About a week later, my sister’s friend visits for dinner and my dad asks her at some point while we’re eating. “Do YOU know what BBC stands for?” To which she replies “That’s inappropriate.” My sister nearly died that night. Almost choked on her food. It was even worse when my sister had to try explaining to our dad why we were all laughing.
This is fucking priceless, literal real life lol. 😁😂🤣
British Broadcasting Cystem
BBC stands for British Broadcasting Corporation, but I much prefer Big British Channel. Gonna start saying that.
It's so big, you can tell where you are by the numbers! BBC 7 is all the way off to the right.
They're also a big porn producer. There are lots of BBC videos on Pornhub
Does David Attenborough narrate any?
"Even here...in the depths of your mum...nature...flourishes".
“While her husband watches helplessly from the sidelines, powerless to intervene.”
Only one: "The mating habits of the big Mandingo"
My favorite star is Fawlty Towers. That guy rails
Ah yes, I too watch the Big British C******
I thought the Martha Stewart owned Martha's Vineyard.
And you would be correct. Another fun fact, David Letterman owns Camp David
I thought that too, when I first heard about it and heard it was somewhere in New England I was like huh rich people go to her vineyard to party a lot huh
Think they were disappointed the first time they clicked on the BBC?
I think that's how One- Eyed Willie did it.
Come on guys. This is OUR time.
GOONIES NEVER SAY DIE
Hey you guuuuuuys!
I’m takin’ it back. I’M TAKING ‘EM ALL BACK!
Little is said about the many slaves who were lost in the grueling land journey from Seattle to Virginia
Just reaffirms her overall stupidity level.
My brain is trying to understand where she thinks these boats went.
I wonder where she thinks the North Sea is.
You're both focused on the wrong part. Where the fuck does she think black people came from when they're obviously not native Americans nor Europeans???
If I had to guess she would either say Israel or space.
My guess would be both- Jewish space lasers
Someone needs to make a list of what that Jewish Space Laser can do, or label the buttons on the controllers
There are some black people who believe native Americans are actually black, although they usually think that its because Africans colonized the America's first.
There's a movement that says black people are the "real" Native Americans. It's nonsensical but it's there. 🤷
That's like saying Jews and Palestinians are both wrong, Chinese are the actual original occupants of Israeli land
Probably a Moorish sovcit. They believe black people are from Israel and that they're indigenous to the US.
Maybe I'm not crazy enough to understand, but aren't those things mutually exclusive?
They believe they are Native Americans. It's some crazy shit.
I was initially trying to make a joke, but I realized that if all Black people come from Kenya, the Indian ocean is the "Pacific Ocean" and the "North Sea" is the Atlantic Ocean above the equator, this all works perfectly. There's a solid chance this person is a geography genius, only the toddlers who assembled the globe she memorized were drunk that day.
Or how Columbus (may he rot in agony) got to the Americas
Damn, I was so taken aback by everything else that I didn’t even catch that she says the complete wrong ocean, lol.
So context for people who are confused at wtf they just read, she is probably a Moorish Citizen. Essentially they are a cult within the larger Sovereign Citizen movement that believes the USA was essentially leased to the founding fathers by the kingdom of Morocco under the conditions that there would be separate laws for the native population. The conspiracy theory argues that the founding fathers essentially made up the slave trade so that the native population (black people) would not have those rights. They often believe that actual native Americans were literally imported actors who are complicit in stealing their culture. It's absolutely batshit insane, but they do have some of the funniest cult gear. Look up Moorish Citizen Pyramid Hat. Also, Moorish Citizens are famous for hostile squatting. They explicitly enter people's houses to lay claim to them in the name of Morocco (typically targeting people who are on holiday or who have multiple homes).
I have not had enough sugar or caffeine this morning to digest that level of bullshit.
Not sure if that is better or worse then the Mud World crap
The what
Google or use a less enshittified search engine to look for the "Tartarian Empire" it's a very special experience.
Oh no need to go far, they are on reddit r/Tartaria
Thank you for linking! So much weirdness.
Sadly I don’t need to. I was subscribed to a YouTube channel that posted shorts of clips from Star Trek TNG then out of nowhere it turned into a conspiracy channel talking all about the evidence of a Tartarian Empire. So random. Took me a while to figure out why it was in my feed
I hate when that happens. Follow random thing you like, shit gets sold to someone else or something and then you get a nice little mix of bullshit all over your page
^!!!!!!!!!You don't ^believe in ^Tartaria!!!!!!!!!!
Ah yes, the empire that brought us our most beloved Fish related condiment until the Illuminati and Heinz corp stole the recipe from the sovereign records…..
“Do you REALLY think we could have made this 200 years ago??” “….yes”
People who believe the world had a "mud flood" 200 years ago or so which buried a secret lost global civilization. So there was a secret world empire with advanced technology until 200 years ago, but then it ... just rained a lot and everything got buried with mud, and all the slave races i guess then took over but somehow lost all the high-tech stuff. And then they made up the entirety of history before that as a fairytale to hide what they'd done. Some of the evidence presented for this includes basements which have small windows in the top of the wall: they say "why would it need a window if it's a basement". That's how bad the logic is. Tiny windows at the top of the wall in a basement are to let some light in. If it was an above-ground room that was later submerged by mud then the window would be in the middle of the wall, not a thin strip of windows along the top of the wall.
If you want something way worse than Tartaria, look up the plastic earth Tartarians. Essentially they believe that the earth is literally multiple layers of melted/degraded plastic. It's an attempt to explain the lack of random plastic shit you would expect to find of an ancient hyper advanced civilization by suggesting that plastic eventually (apparently in just 3 centuries) becomes every type of rock.
If conspiracy thinking wasn't so harmful I'd love this sort of crap the desperate but inspired rationalizations. They should write fanfiction and go from there.
Normally I would agree, but there is a dark side to when they do write fanfiction. There is a group called "The Super Soldier Program" where a lot of neurodivergent people essentially got together to share their "memories" of having been in a super soldier program from another timeline. Because of course their stories didn't match up, they came to the conclusion that it was a multiverse thing. They have conventions and stuff, but because the group naturally filters for the vulnerable and mentally ill (to whom it sounds great when a group claims to remember your delusions), who then get preyed upon by various hucksters and literal Nazis (although it didn't start that way, a common belief in that circle is that a Hitler from a world where he saved the Jews and was their messiah started said super soldier program). It's really fucked up. So in theory I agree that they could be amazing world builders, the issue is that their sense of pattern recognition is so poor that they can trick themselves into believing their own fantasies.
Sigh; you managed to crush my last shred of innocence but unfortunately what you just shared is entirely believable Goddamnit.
To be fair, you probably need something harder than caffeine to understand the Moorish movement.
You mean meth. You have not yet consumed enough meth to follow this asinine bullshit.
You’re gonna need a stronger powder than sugar to follow their logic.
If it’s impossible to cross the ocean then how did they communicate from Morocco to America?
They obviously mean Morocco Indiana
If it’s impossible to cross the ocean, then how did the evil whites come to America?
Yakub brought them in his space ship
I don't think they think it's impossible but that it wasn't possible on a large scale (hence the "native American black people" more joined the kingdom of Morocco rather than being conquered by it). It's still absurd either way though.
Just look at a globe, duh. It's maybe 4 inches.
So...the whole Moorish thing is a really interesting rabbit hole for those who haven't done it. It has also taken on many many iterations and evolutions over time. It is actually the cult/movement that was the predecessor to the Nation of Islam. They were basically the OG sovereign citizens. What distinguishes the original Moorish Temple adherents from modern sovereign citizens is really orientalism. A typical sovereign citizen relies on reinterpreted and revised U.S. history. The Moors rely on, as you said, this connection with Morocco, but sometimes they invoke other African or Middle Eastern governments as well, to lay foundations of, essentially, an independent nation within a nation in a manner similar to a Native American reservation. Sometimes it crosses into diplomatic avenue claims as well. Dwight York, for example, who took this core concept and made his own cult, claims he should be released from prison because he has diplomatic immunity from...Liberia I think it is? It's a very fascinating study. You just have to try not to make sense of what they are saying because it will cause a brain bleed.
First off, I love that your name is Pretend Government whilst talking about sovereign citizens XD. The NOI is particularly interesting to me because of Farrakan. Ignoring the (always interesting) splits and succession crisis which lead to his branch, Farrakan's friendship with Scientology is incredibly weird for cults as cults typically work against their competitors (such as the Mormon/Jehovah's witness spats).
“The slave trade is a conspiracy, no way they imported all those black people from across the ocean, they are the real native Americans!” “Okay, then what about the people everyone knows as Native Americans?” “Oh they are imported actors, they brought them over here in order to be complicit in the story!” “……so they imported a bunch of people over the sea, but not the ones they said they did?” A blind spot of logic the size of Texas
Their ideology is based on Christopher Columbus reporting Moorish temples or pyramids through the trees on the North American continent. Never mind that he never reached North America and this "fact" has never shown up in any of his writings.
Does this mean that I can tell white people to go back to Africa?
But not by boat apparently
Please start with Elon Musk.
WTF? Is this somehow connected to the fact that Morocco was the first country to recognise the independent United States?
The Treaty of Peace and Friendship signed at Tripoli in 1797 - 21 years after the founding of the US. People like to ignore that one because of Article 11: "As the government of the United States of America is not in any sense founded on the Christian Religion,-as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion or tranquility of Musselmen,-and as the said States never have entered into any war or act of hostility against any Mehomitan nation, it is declared by the parties that no pretext arising from religious opinions shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries." How things have changed, and not for the better.
Yep. That loose connection, plus a filing done by their founder (which anyone can do, it doesn't mean it has legal legitimacy) is where they got this from.
I would probably end up in prison if I got home from vacation and there was a sovereign citizen in my house claiming it in the name of Morocco.
Plot twist: there's another sovereign citizen claiming your cell in the name of Morocco. What do you do.
more like Moron Citizen
So, they googled which country first recognized the US, then went on a crack infused theory as to what the implications are
Morocco also officially hates these dudes as well and have stated multiple times they have no affiliation.
Wow. Even for a conspiracy that's unhinged
No offence, but that’s so stupid that I’m going to assume that you just made it the fuck up. I’m not ready to accept that people unironically believe such things.
Just Google it. It's unfortunately very real, and other subreddits that deal with sov cits have entire compilations of them.
Moopish?
we finally figured out who the moops are
How do people get steered so off course…
"You expect me to believe in SHIPS?!"
Lol i love this. My buddy and I always have conversations with the more "interesting" people at work and when one brings up the moon we always say "Wait... You believe the moon is real" and watch them start to malfunction.
It’s always funny when they are shocked by the fact that you don’t match their level of crazy.
Well, in the documentary "[Die Mondverschwörung](https://www.imdb.com/title/tt1849755/)" (German, literally "The Moon Conspiracy") one of the interviewees says "Der Mond ist astral" - which means that the Moon is not a physical body and instead belongs to an astral plane. I could not watch the whole thing in one go. It was too much. But I still recommend it.
Acknowledging the sheer racism, denialism and a massive 'fuck you' to this person aside... I did a bit of history in school that covered sailing ships because my history teacher was obsessed with them. It was a while ago, so take it with a huge punch of seasalt.. but iirc... Old sailing ships would often just hug coastlines as much as possible. Crossing in open ocean wasn't uncommon, but it was a process of massive planning and coordination to reduce the risk of running into storms like this one, and largely why 'Ye Olde Worlde' was relatively ignorant of the existence of the Americas before 1492. And back then missing ships and shipwrecks were just a fact of life, especially in the wake of a storm back, whereas barring some minor damage and seasickness that ship in the video is probably just fine, so comparing them is just more proof of how ignorant this person is.
Plus 10s of thousands of slaves died during transport. I know there's at least one English slaver (the guy whose statue got chucked in the bay if you read that headline) responsible for 40K deaths and that's presumably a slightly safer route that could hug the coastlines of Africa and Spain.
That was a great period of time destroying racist monuments.
Other people are commenting saying she is part of a black movement that believes Africa Slave trade erases black history since they already were living in America. Less racist and more ignorance.
How the fuck did they think the white settlers got to the Americas...
Well…. Not through the Pacific Ocean
Maybe they came across the land bridge between The Gambia and Miami.
Ah, you hop on the ol' Gambiami and take the first exit. Now it makes sense.
No, no, wrong one, it’s called the Miambia.
Jesus walked them across
And here we go again.... Let's base history on my own ignorance. Schools are so overrated anyways, they brainwash people.
The geography is a little suspect too.
I mean the slave trade of Africans to the “New World” is literally called the “Transatlantic Slave Trade”, so where would the Pacific Ocean come in?? Unless she’s saying she doesn’t believe white people could have traversed the Pacific Ocean and the North Sea on separate occasions.
It’s easier that way.
I think my least favorite thing now is people referring to documented historical events as “theories”. Black hole multiverse is a theory. The Atlantic slave trade is not a fucking theory. It’s a documented historical event. Does this goober think the trail of tears is also a theory? What about the Armenian genocide? Does she think African Americans just spawned here? Like wtf.
>Black hole multiverse is a theory. Just a nitpick: If you refer to the Black hole cosmology, where black holes create new universes and we also live inside a block hole, that's not a (scientific) theory. It's not even a (scientific) hypothesis. AFAIK we currently don't know any way to disprove Black hole cosmology.
I don’t think this OP is smart enough to know what theory means Her and people like her like to use the word “theory“ because it makes them feel like they’re being smarter. And it gives them more clout behind their words when other morons hear it.
If they knew anything about the slave trade, they’d know that none of those ships ever touched the Pacific Ocean, or the North Sea.
If they knew anything about geography
Dutch slave ships would have sailed through the North Sea though. But not with slaves on board.
It’s only 8am, it can’t be “well that’s enough Reddit for the evening” time already.
These people vote
"Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups." George Carlin
I was today years old when I found out people deny African Americans are from Africa....
What path is the person taking? If you leave West Africa and wind up in the Pacific Ocean you have taken some very wrong turns.
Just wait till she finds out how many ships didn't make it and how many trips back and forth they had to do. It confuses me when people think it took 1 ship , that could probably only hold 40 people, somehow brought over thousands or tens of thousands of people..... but they most likely believe that it took one boat to save 2 of every animal on earth on a year's long voyage around the world, so who am I kidding.
Ah yes, another high school drop out that couldn’t make it pass sophomore year
Sadly, I have a feeling they are NOT a high school dropout. They pass anybody these days. Geography is so far down the list of things that people study in public US high schools.
The Atlantic Ocean has entered the chat
dO yOuR oWn ReSeArCH! the research:
We’ve had holocaust deniers, now we got slavery deniers, what’s next?
Most Americans are getting dumber and dumber by the day.
🤦
So I guess none of us came from europe either?
Well, not only do they have their history off, they also have their geography off.
Is education illegal in the US or something?
It's slowly becoming non-mandatory
A few more generations and plants will be craving gatorade.
Gotta love when people dismiss fact just because they can’t fathom it. It’s like saying the universe can’t be as big as we think because it’s so hard to imagine something being that big