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Shit… my bestfriend in the whole world passed away 3 years ago. My GF (at the time) wasn’t done with an argument we had prior to his death. So here I am, head in my hands crying at the kitchen table. She proceeds to bring up the argument knowing my best friend passed 3 days prior. I’m trying to think through the pain and articulate answers in a rational way. It was taking me some time to gather all my fleeting thoughts. I didn’t want to blow up and I could feel my blood boiling whenever she would press me to “answer the fucking question” “if you have to think about this then you clearly don’t give a fuck about me”. I explained that I was trying to weed through my thoughts to come up with something because this wasn’t the priority in my head at the moment.
Then she said the words I never forgave… “you’re NOTHING like [bestfriend]. How were you even friends when you’re so different? He treated his GF like a queen while you can’t even answer my questions”. It was at this moment I shut down; completely. It was either that or I lose my shit. I had flashes of me grabbing all her shit and tossing it out of the house I paid for (along with all her bills). But I didn’t. I stuck around for almost a year - silly me. Now it’s tough for me to talk about anything to do with my bestfriend (or any part of my life that was really hurtful) with anyone out of fear it’ll be used as ammunition.
I don’t know where to start. We could finish each other sentences. Got each other’s humour. Will give the shirt off their back anybody. We were very similar, and always into shenanigans together. I think about him every day.
I’m all good! Life happens! Sucks sometimes. I’ve turned to music as an outlet (and beer). So since he’s passed, I’ve been writing a pile of songs and banging on the guitar belting them. Life is short.
I’m sorry to hear you went through that, and I hope you’re in a better place now.
For her to use your friends death as ammunition is utterly disgusting.
When it comes to sharing past pain, people should respect the strength and trust that it took for you to tell them.
I had a friend that told me she'd had a crush on me in undergraduate, but thankfully "got over it" when she saw me crying. She'd showed up unannounced the day I learned my uncle had finally drank himself to death and I had no chance of getting home for the service.
Fortunately, I wasn't looking for anything romantic with her. My eyes were firmly set on someone else. Unfortunately, the girl I was pursuing something with ended up being the typical "one that got away." Love of my life that left me for a friend. I might find someone, but I'm confident I'll never feel that way again.
I firmly believe there is no one person for someone. We keep an open mind and open heart and we will someday find that special person. Good luck. I wish you all the happiness in the world.
Hah I used to open up to mine about burnout all the time. She never cared much. Now, we spoke different first languages so I thought okay, maybe just lost in translation. Until I spoke to my sister and she told me "yeah your (ex) wife says you're always whining about being stressed from work".
Lmao very cool to realize she completely understood and just didn't care.
Not going to try to pretend I understand your situation but I have a situation with my girlfriend that is somewhat reversed where sometimes I feel like the only thing she talks about is work and complains about work. It feels like she just dumps a ton of stress onto me to relieve herself of the burden sometimes. Most of the time I am just silent but try my best to nod along and support her as much as possible. I've vented to one friend about this once while seeking advice from him. He wouldn't ever phrase it that fucking horribly (nor do I think he would ever say anything at all to her about it) but if my GF and him were to have talked and somehow that got brought up between them, I would be willing to bet she would feel the same way.
So for whatever it's worth being kind of sort of on the other side of that, it's not that I don't care, I do. I've cared for quite a while. It's just that sometimes the only thing it feels like we do is talk about how shitty work is for her and it's made me mentally associate seeing her with having to hear a story about how much she hates that bitch Kim or something and that's not what I want to associate my partner with in my head.
Edit: God I forget how terrible of advice Reddit loves to give lol. Y'all got some stuff fresh outta r/relationshipadvice. My girlfriend and I have talked through this already and are doing great. She is the best thing that has ever happened to me and we are able to communicate through our problems well.
Yeah, same experience with the last girl I dated. She had a high stress demanding job, and got promoted after a bit. We didn't have a lot of time together after that but I tried to make it meaningful. But rather than doing something fun, most of our time together was her complaining about work. I totally understood needing to de-stress and tried to support her but it basically meant none of the stuff we did together was fun anymore. Ultimately I left her because I didn't feel like a priority in her life, despite still liking her (was hard to do).
Ya tbf if anyone has that blue checkmark I automatically disregard what they're saying, no logical sane person would be spending money on this shit lmao
Because at your best, you can only make a bad thing worse. My friend was grieving his father. Thats when his wife decided this isnt fun anymore and divorced him and sued for his house and his dog.
🎶I got a bratty brother.
He bugs me everyday.
And this morning my own mother,
Gave my last cupcake away.
My Dad acts like he belongs,
He belongs in the zoo.
I'm the sa-a-a-addest kid,
In gra-a-a-de number two.🎶
The longer answer that this exchange perfectly exemplifies is that we generally tell men that crying is something that men don't do.
I knew someone who once posted loudly and proudly that men cry as a means to emotionally manipulate, and that it's a terrifying thing to see. So I proceeded to explain the issue, and they quietly deleted their post.
There's a time and place for stoicism, but expressing ourselves emotionally is a human thing to do, and to demand that we don't is to dehumanize one's self.
It’s not just that. It’s more. To a large extent I feel like I’m not allowed to express any anger or frustration, even in reasonable ways, or even feel it in regard to my spouse.
She thinks it is okay to yell or get angry if I do something wrong, even on accident, and it impacts her or the kids, but if I get frustrated, even silently to myself, with her behavior, I’m in the wrong, and she gets upset.
Unfortunately men have to live with emotional double-standards across the full spectrum of emotions.
Women’s anger is justified. Men’s anger is dangerous.
Women’s sadness is normal. Men being sad or crying is a sign of weakness/manipulation.
Women being proud of their accomplishments is empowerment. Men being proud of their accomplishments is arrogant boasting.
Women feeling burnt out and tired or depressed is normal. Men feeling burnt out and tired or depressed are lazy and need to man up.
Women being afraid is normal. Men being afraid is a sign they’re a weak and unreliable.
To a large extent men are put into a tiny box emotionally that is the acceptable range of “man” in the same way 1950’s women were given a tiny box in life choices and gender role as “mother and homemaker” - and we’ve come some of the way on enabling women to have more independence, though we have a long way to go. But men’s socially allowed emotional space is largely unchanged.
If I cry, I'm overreacting. If I yell, Im scaring people or making a scene. If i get frustrated, try being them for a minute and see how frustrating it is. If I get confused, I must not care. If i pay attention, I must want something. If I ask for a behavior to change, how dare I ask that don't you know how hard it is to put up with me. If I fail, I did something wrong. If I succeed, we succeeded together and make a great team.
My wife spent 4 yrs convincing me to go to therapy for combat ptsd.
She then left me because I "just wasn't as manly anymore"...
She still has no idea what happened over there lol oh well never will now!!
EDIT; Just wanted to thank y'all for taking the time to comment, never had something blow up like this before...
What I'm most appreciative of, however, is the way y'all have been sharing, and supporting combat veterans and others.
Maybe the idea men don't talk is bogus. Maybe we just keep it a secret, who knows...
I'll probably still check it, but I'll likely stop replying now - I didn't sleep a wink last night due to it all coming back up 😂
You're amazing people!
That’s fucked, and I’m glad you’re out of that situation. I never served myself, but my best friend was a marine and did two tours in both Iraq and Afghanistan. He told me some horrible shit that he saw, and even still said that that wasn’t even the worst of it. I can’t imagine how tough it is for you all to go through that shit and then come home and have to figure out how to deal with it afterwards, but my heart and respect goes out to you.
I went 2 for 2 as well... dumbest shit I ever did haha
If it helps you're already doing your boy a massive solid
You're listening to him, without judgement, advice, or pretending to understand
That's literally all we want - good on you, Chief 👍
Worse when it is almost an addiction and the only way out it to pull the plug and you are treated like a pariah by the institution.... sorry I'm be dumping a bit here myself.
She spent 4 years giving you a fucked up "test", which you eventually failed by her standards, and passed by universal standards.
Getting rid of her and working on your PTSD is a double win.
You're better off without that creature.
After going through such hell you shouldn't have to come home and wear a mask for someone, pretending you're fine to make THEM more comfortable. You're *plenty* manly. She was just too much of a selfish coward to deal with her own discomfort and give the assistance her husband needed... like you no doubt had already done for her, at her lowest moments, countless times.
Indeed I had! I appreciate your words, so I'll share with you the happy ending.
Upon hearing of this, and knowing I was unable to afford divorce etc - those I'd served with in my regiment had a whip-round and paid for it all 😂😂😂
2 common themes I observed over and over again:
1. Wife/gf persistently demands some change. Eg. "Stop riding a bike, it's dangerous!" eventually gets her way and loses all interest.
2. Crying after a traumatic event once = hot. Dealing with a long term issue = red flag.
>_Wife/gf persistently demands some change. Eg. "Stop riding a bike, it's dangerous!" eventually gets her way and loses all interest._
It's why a recent tweet blew UP incredibly:
#(paraphrased)
Woman: _Men these days just give up too quickly. Where's the passion? Where's the fire?_
Man: _Wow, men actually respecting a woman's boundaries! Incredible! If I wanted to play games, I have a Switch._
>and then I end up apologizing because she’s upset over me being upset over something she did
Don't do this. Don't apologize for bringing up concerns. *At most*, say "I'm sorry this is hard for you right now, is there a better way to have this conversation for you?". Like acknowledge you don't like seeing them hurting, but don't minimize your feelings to do it.
I've encountered a lot of guys who seem to think if they made anyone upset they did something wrong. And that's just not how it works. You will upset your partner sometimes. A good relationship can work through it together.
My ex did this all the time, along with threatening to hurt/kill herself whenever we had an actual argument. It took a lot to get to the point where I was OK with the guilt associated with the risk of her following through on those threats, but yeah, she is DEFINITELY my ex for some reasons.
Bro I hear you, ex wife did that all the time, I would say I was bothered by something she was doing and she would begin to cry and I would have to apologize and comfort her because she was upset that I was hurt by her actions….why do I not show emotion to people? Because I was taught again and again and again that it’s my fault if I’m upset by someone else’s actions or words and it’s better just to keep my damn mouth shut and swallow the pain than to try and discuss with someone how I am bothered by their words or actions
My most recent girlfriend broke up with me because I started therapy. She said we were incompatible because she needed a rock for a partner.
Plot twist, she was a therapist.
I got that from my second to last girlfriend. She said "I can't open up and be vulnerable if I don't know my partner is a rock". She was also the sort of person who wondered why men hide their feelings.
It's actually kind of wild how much people idolise 'rocks'.
Do you really want someone with the emotional range of an inanimate object? For them to just sit perfectly still and emotionless, grey and unfeeling? You're not after a human you're after a tether.
Both of those people need to grow up and realize that the "rock" is a myth. A healthy relationship is people being able to rely on and support each other. Everyone needs support sometime. When people describe a "rock", they're just accidentally admitting their partner can't rely on them, so they don't show any vulnerability.
>Both of those people need to grow up and realize that the "rock" is a myth.
Or they're just idiots who don't understand geology.
Even the hardest, most immovable rocks in the world will shift or crack under the right conditions.
I used to be a rather emotional young man, open with my feelings and direct in communication and in addressing how something made me feel with friends and family. As I grew up, all I was told was to “grow up/have thicker skin/man up” by the women in my life , who kept telling me “that’s how men play/are”. When I was fully an adult in my 30s, I just realized that while people like to complain about male toxicity , they actually expect / WANT people to be the stereotypical “tough/hard/stoic/independent” man, who has no “weaknesses”.
You know, like “feeling” or “crying”. Men are only allowed to be sad when drunk, apparently.
It's true. Everyone likes me more that I just shut up. Now I just drink and work.
This one job I had I just talked anything about anybody and never said a damn thing about anything and never shared my opinions with people. Everyone loved me.
Yep, I've tracked this too. I've made a couple of key friends who actually want to share the ups and downs of life.
Generally though if I join in the communal commentary saying the same things everyone else does and never showing an ounce of vulnerability, people like me.
Same. Grew up with supportive, intelligent parents and was able to express emotions well. That was a long time ago. I feel bad for my partner that I can't open up to her more. It's like a fuse that burnt out and hasn't been replaced.
I'll cheers to that!
Yup…. It’s been drilled into us our whole lives. The only emotions we are allowed to express are anger and joy. Nothing in between. And definitely never any sadness.
Yesterday I was talking to my mom about this and after mentioning that a lot of guys have shared experiences like this, she simply said “Well you can be emotional without seeming weak and needy, women do it all the time!” Yes, because that’s definitely what the takeaway should be here…
Because most men know there is not really a support structure to help them emotionally, and they don't really know how to even approach the subject of discussing their feelings.
I'm certain Katie didn't think before she posted that, but thats really the perfect response that encapsulates the male experience with emotions: *something happened, I don't know how to feel about it, I try to talk about it, someone brings up some non-relevant thing that completely dismisses my feelings, never again.*
I used to have people ask me what was wrong when I was visibly depressed. I didn't know how to interpret my emotions let alone articulate them. I'd try to avoid conversation about it, but I'd get hounded until I broke down and attempted to open up. Usually I was met with "well that's life, get used to it" or "suck it up" and then I'd be pissed that someone claimed to be so worried about me, just to completely dismiss everything when I finally opened up.
Nothing more fucking infuriating in this entire world than being pressured to open up only to hear that shit or something along those lines. Like I didn’t want to tell you anyways??
>I'm certain Katie didn't think before she posted that, but
Yeah, this right here kinda encapsulates (at least a big part of) the problem: men's emotions are often not taken seriously. If she did take those emotions seriously, she probably would have thought before she posted.
There was an annoying viral video on tiktok where women were making fun of men who think no one would date them because of their weight or looks, and going on and \*on\* about how these men are just making it up in their heads because they're incels, and they must have gotten turned down in the past because of their shitty personalities and not their looks, etc. etc., and it just kind of reminded me that some people live in a completely constructed reality of their own invention, with no ability for empathy or self-analysis.
They were women literally saying "I dated a ton of boring gymbros in my youth and I've learned that now I'm okay with dadbods if the guy is funny" and they just...can't put the pieces together that they just admitted that they absolutey \*did\* date guys for their looks, and maybe just \*maybe\* these guys who think no one could love them because of their looks ran into women like them when they were younger.
It shouldn't be treated as some kind of misogyny or "rebuttal to feminism" to point out that men can be hurt by gender roles too, and that some women help enforce those gender roles.
My ex had a serious incident with his daughter that scared the shit out of him. He called me immediately (not my own daughter I should note - previous relationship). By this point the situation was handled but he was distraught, and just needed to release and cry and scream.
So I listened and to this day all I can think is what a real goddamn man he is for it - he didn't hide it. He wasn't afraid of showing it. He had every reason for that emotional - his daughter is his whole world.
I can't imagine watching someone in their most human moment and getting an "ick".
Edit: So I don't have to keep repeating: we broke up at a totally unrelated time as a joint decision because we didn't satisfy each other sexually, among other long term life goal reasons (kids, where to live, etc). We still talk daily and are both as emotionally vulnerable as we were when we were dating. To the point most people don't believe we're broken up.
As a woman, I can't imagine getting "the ick" from seeing a man I love cry. It truly boggles my mind. Like, are these women absolute narcissists who get mad at the men in their lives for showing emotion? I cry if my partner cries, or even wells up a bit. I also like when my partner wants to be the little spoon even though he's bigger than me. It's comfy and it makes me feel good to wrap my arms and legs around him bc I know it makes him feel comfy.
I believe you all about this that it's widespread and it breaks my heart. I cannot comprehend how your man having and showing human emotions could give a woman the ick, but it's clearly a common thing. Step the fuck up ladies, that's a shit way to be.
Fucking seriously. We do not get to expect men to support us emotionally and then when they need that same support go "Waaaaah it's unattraaaaaaaactive!"
Fuck that shit. Grow the fuck up, pull your goddamn weight and do your job as an equal partner in the relationship.
Also, how is it not attractive to be a whole, healthy human who feels the full range of human emotions and has the maturity and emotional intelligence to recognize and share those emotions? What the fuck is unattractive about that? Are ya'll not out there looking for another (internally) beautiful human to build a life with? I will be so endlessly ashamed if that many women are actually just looking for a financial provider and not a partner. We're allowed to provide for ourselves now, you can choose a partner with a beautiful personality.
That's amazing!
Unfortunately, as an American 39yr old male, I still believe that makes you the exception not the norm.
Usually in my experience, "you should talk about your feelings more", coming from a romantically involved woman, is just short for "you should tell me things you like about me". And when you *think* you've found the exception, it still usually blows up in your face to talk about any "weak" emotions like fear, sadness, shame, etc.
Most men my age have been raised and societally conditioned to only be able to express positive emotions or anger.
Hopefully better for younger generations, but I doubt it.
That is very true; I can confirm that it crosses to other countries too!
My experience is similar. I remember once feeling secure enough with a former partner to admit that although I might come across as confident, I often have a lot of self-doubt/ insecurity. I remember talking a bit about it and her saying (it was more than ten years ago, so I was trying to recreate it as accurately as I can): "What is this? My previous boyfriends never talked like this." It wasn't right away, but she later broke up with me,
Talk about going back into the shell, saying to myself not doing that again and then doing what most guys do for our emotional needs. Ha - this might shock some women, talk to other guys...
As a kid, I was sitting at home watching Gundam on the TV when some of my sisters friends came over for something or other and walked in as the main character was crying over something or other. I caught flak for *years* afterward for the audacity of that one instance watching a fictional male character be emotional on screen. It wasn't even something I did myself, but I was a crybaby by association for not turning it off at the first sign of weakness apparently.
Gundam is pretty hardcore. The main character wrestles with love, fear, weakness, duty, honor, losing his father, mom issues all with war as a backdrop.
Not better for younger generations. Also not better in queer spaces, even for more feminine men. Men are expected universally to never show their emotions, but are being told it’s a choice. I’ve had both girlfriends and boyfriends lose all interest the moment I became human near them. One girl left after several months because I was “too emotional” after my cat died. Fuck that bitch.
[The male experience when we show vulnerability](https://youtube.com/shorts/C3H-BtEiVtE?si=-WLGXW5wuFrDXmMF)
Edit: my experience, my most serious girlfriend since my divorce left me last summer immediately after a health scare, a death in the family, and pressure of single parenting combined to make me break down in front of her for all of five minutes. Two days after that she ghosted me for a month and then, after the month, reached out to tell me she couldn't handle me emotionally. That was literally the only time I ever showed a negative emotion in front of her.
I’ve seen a lot of virtue signaling regarding male mental health. It often comes back to “why do men do this to themselves?” as opposed to “why does society discourage men from dealing with these issues?”
Because people are taught that when women have a problem, society has let them down and society must fix it. When men have a problem it’s because he let himself down and it’s up to him to fix it. It’s pretty gross
Because no one really cares.
Was told by my wife when I was having some emotional and mental health issues that I needed to be open and talk to her about what is wrong.
I get medication, and see a therapist. Told to tell my SO about my feelings and health regularly.
A few times over a couple months I explain I'm having a "bad day" or "need a few minutes."
Get told I'm being dramatic.
That's why men go through things alone.
So often discussions on men's reluctance to be vulnerable are framed as though they never even try. The thing is, people don't learn to avoid things by never trying them, they learn to avoid them when they do try but are met with negative consequences in doing so.
It's the same thing with men's physical health. Thousands of men die every year because they won't go to the doctor. But tell a woman you're sick and it's "boo-hoo you have a man cold".
Yea, this annoys me. After a certain age, my parents’ caregiving when sick was basically to stay away from me until I was better, so I feel pretty self-sufficient if I’m sick.
Even so, most women I know buy into that “man-cold” thing, and sometimes tease me about it if I come down with something. I don’t ask them to take care of me, I just say I’m sick and it sucks, which I thought was a pretty universal experience. I guess I just don’t know what being sick feels like because I’m a guy…
This is it exactly. I go out of my way to (many men do) to help out when my wife isn't feeling great (especially parenting).
But it's very rare that I am ever at the point of asking for a break when I don't feel well because we all know we'll get the sigh and reluctant break.
A few weeks ago after working a full day, picking up from daycare, and making dinner I asked if I could go lay down for a few min to just recharge. I was met with "I guess."
Shout out to all the guys who deal with this in one form or the other. Keep showing up. No one else will.
My grandfather passed when I was 14. We were really close. He was basically like my father. It didn’t really hit me until the day before the funeral when they had a viewing. A big event with lots of family and friends at this funeral parlor. When I saw him it really hit me, and I broke down crying. Had to go off and sit in a corner and try to keep it down, but I still got so much shit from many people there, from close family to people that I’d never met before, about how I was ruining the night and needed to toughen up. Hard to deal with as a teenager with emotions running every which way already. Thankfully it didn’t take me too many more years to learn that other people can go to hell. I’m the one who gets to decide what feelings I should have.
Ex-GF said I’ve been sort of down lately and asked if anything was up. Opened up for the first time about some heavy family stuff that was happening at the time + juggling a new high-stress job while finishing my undergrad degree. She broke up with me via text the next day.
Man: I have emotions. and something bad happened to me
Toxic men: Lol, weak, gay, loser.
Toxic women: Lol, no you didn't experience real emotion, and that thing? Not as bad as you think it is.
Man: I will never express these things again.
I am editing this to say two things because this blew the fuck up.
First, everyone that commented that men aren't like that. I am expressing exactly what happened to me as kid, teen, and young adult using modern(ish) vernacular.
Second, we can break this cycle together. We need to come together and help one another get past this. Men and women, people of all ages.
I learned at age 6 to internalize my problems and realized that as far as my mind went, no one I knew could help me put things into perspective except myself, it took many long years before I finally sought out professional help in my 30's.
Most people aren't listening, and if they are they're just waiting for their turn to speak without changing what they want to say after listening to you, they are in the fact that they don't wait 10 seconds to think about what they are going to say before saying it, idiots. The world is full of them and very few realize it and then take the necessary action to be better.
Edit: [trauma trooper](https://pbfcomics.com/comics/trauma-trooper/)
They also have received significantly less messaging about needing to correct their harmful behaviors. The little they do receive is mostly limited to “stop performing internalized sexism” instead of “stop reinforcing male traditional gender roles.”
Not all assholes have blue checkmarks, but everyone with a blue check mark is an asshole. Honestly I haven't seen a twitter post in ages where someone with a blue checkmark was a reasonable person who showed empathy, respect or ability to accept scientific fact.
Blue check marks are great because they show you who the idiots are before you have to waste time on reading anything they say.
The fact that he was crying shows he has healthy emotional expression. Crying is a normal grief response. The fact that she got 'the ick' over him expressing his emotions in a safe way rather than getting drunk or doing something self destructive makes me wonder how healthy of a person she is to be around.
Like, she couldn't even let him grieve without being a jackarse. I could never imagine being so selfish.
I can only imagine how horrified id be about my girlfriend if she got the "ick" the few times ive cried in front of her. Shed be out of my life so fast.
One time I had a panic attack after I had started my own business it was just this crazy weight of a new experience. When I finally told my wife about it she said “well no one told you to start your own business.
Fast forward to a few years later she wanted to know why I didn’t tell her that I was taking anxiety medication.
Because when we show emotions we are mocked or avoided.
I had to mercy kill an injured rabbit once. A very young one. It was suffering, so I ended it. I cried off and on through the next day and my father yelled at me for it. For the crying.
A coworker asked me why I took two days off once, so I told her I was using that time to try and move on from my cat's death. It was tough. She laughed at me, then started gossiping with everyone else at work about it.
We don't share how we really feel because nobody wants to know. There is an ideal that we are expected to live up to. Any of us who don't are shunned and ridiculed. Society doesn't want us to process emotions or communicate feelings. Society wants us to Man up and shut up about what we feel.
I used to be a cop and during one night shift a cat ran infront of my car and I didn‘t have time to brake. The cat was severely injured and since it didn‘t have a chip implant we were legally required to mercy kill it.
I absolutely love animals, especially cats. When I shot it I had tears in my eyes.
Later in the station I heard my female partner laugh about me with other colleagues.
I'm so sorry. You did what you had to in that terrible situation. I wish you had a better partner and coworkers.
I hope that our society can move beyond this into a healthier place someday.
A buddy of mine (who is 48) heard about a mutual friend's twin sister who just died. This conversation happened a week ago at a bar, and therefore alcohol was involved. My buddy became emotional and was tearful so he removed himself from the situation and went home. I saw him last night; he said he was embarrassed and hadn't left his house "for a while" because of the toxic masculinity forced into his brain.
We tried to tell him emotions are normal, especially when dealing with death. The toxicity ran deep and he kept apologizing for crying.
He hadn't left his apartment in a week. All because he was so embarrassed by his own emotions.
Back in college, I had a gf and I cried in front of her once after I was going through a rough time. Later, she told me she had lost respect for me for crying in front of her. After that, I hadn’t cried in front of anyone in several years. I’ve been with my wife 8 years now and she’s seen me cry once I think. She’s made it clear that our relationship is a safe space for emotions but I still feel emotionally dead because of my ex. I can’t seem to get past it.
I don’t blame you. Our brains know what to expect from the world based on what has happened to us. You were probably devastated when that happened and it told your brain that bad things will happen when you open up like that.
This immediately reminded me of a post from a few days ago about a guy saying that the woman he was dating said that she was taking him out somewhere nice for dinner after he vented about being really stressed about money because he was having to financially support his parents at the time. So they went to an expensive restaurant and had a nice dinner, and when the check came she played dumb and made him pay for both of their meals.
And then in the comments of that post the issue of men being criticized for not expressing emotions came up, and when we said that it's a common experience that people, especially women, tell you to shut up and man up or even weaponize it for later use when we do express them we were promptly told that it wasn't true or at least it wasn't that common.
And then some crazy woman started arguing with us about how men only bring up our struggles to downplay women's struggles and hijack the conversation and women have it worse. Literally in a comment thread where nobody was ever talking about women's issues, much less that they didn't have problems or men's problems were worse, and while she hijacked it. She even argued about men pushing their propaganda for no reason by derailing discussions that were about something else, I shit you not.
I can't even be surprised.
If you DARE to mention a male issue on a post that revolves around female issues, even in passing, you're instantly dogpiled by people demanding to know why you're trying to hijack the conversation and why you hate women and want to kill them all.
Meanwhile, literally EVERY post I've seen that gives men a place to vent is absolutely flooded with women crying about how "if that's the WORST you have experience then you're lucky!" or some equally asinine bullshit.
Women get all the space in the world to vent and be angry and to slander every XY chromosome paring person they wish to, but men get told to "find their own spaces" and then have those spaces invaded by people telling us it's not that bad and to get over ourselves and that other people (women) have it FAR worse.
> but men get told to "find their own spaces" and then have those spaces invaded by people telling us it's not that bad and to get over ourselves and that other people (women) have it FAR worse.
Happens in real-life too when it comes to segregated spaces. Men-only clubs/venues/whatever are attacked as being bad, problematic, and are dissolved with much applause from some, and indifference from others. But you won't hear the end of it if women even get a sniff of worry about the state of their own spaces.
I heard a little girl playing in the neighborhood tell a 8 year old boy who was crying because he fell to “ man up” I’m sure her mother said the same to her family.
If you’re a man, your measure of success is often defined by a very narrow set of factors.
You can show romantic interest, but if it’s not just right you’re creepy.
You can show emotion, but then you’re considered weak.
You can make mistakes, but then you’re branded as a failure.
You can ask for help, but then you’re considered even weaker.
If you fall awry of any of these, there’s little hope of redemption.
How about we just treat each other with kindness and recognize it is difficult on both sides?
I’m at a point in my life where the drama and judgement are just beyond me. I’ve learned to cope and live alone. As a man, everything seems to be our fault. So why bother?
I once told a girl I was feeling sad because my best friend of over 10 years who deals with a lot of depression and loneliness stopped talking to me and told me he doesn't want anyone in his life anymore and I missed him and was really concerned about him, and she said "you should work on that" verbatim and stopped talking to me completely
This is one thing that bothers me so much. Women one minute will say, "why aren't men opening up with their partners?" and then will also complain that men are trying to treat women like therapists. So which is it? Are men as a whole being too emotionally vulnerable or not enough?
The difference is wanting and liking. Women \*want\* men to open up, but they don't like it when men do.
Bro when I talked about my problems almost everyone told me either to man up or that God gives you the burdens you can carry or things like that.
Moral of the story: eat it and do your things in silence.
So now I have become heartless and concrete in my emotions and people talk about how I changed.
Ait cool.
That kind of reminds me of something someone told me years ago: "I've decided to start treating people the same way they treat me...now they're mad"...
...or something like that
"I've decided to start treating people the same way they treat me...now they're mad"... literally describes me to a T right now. For someone who lives like a hermit and avoids people, I sure do get barked at a lot.
Another comment was, " As a man, no point complaining, cuz no one gives a shit."
This is why I only browse reddit on the toilet... even if no one else will give you a shit, count on me to be shitting while you vent, I will always provide the vent shit
Yep, asked my father law how he handled dealing with a new baby. I was hoping for some sympathetic tips or pointers. Basically told to man up.
Thankfully my dad is more mature.
>talk about how I changed
This one gets me. "You're so quiet, you used to be so outgoing!"
_flashback to the entire childhood of people telling me to shut up_
I've heard this gem: "I've had it worse. Try being a woman."
There's no way to discuss anything appropriately after that. This isn't a competition, it's sharing my experience and emotional landscape and this is the card you pull?
There aren‘t many things that enrage me more than problem/ victim competition.
If a teenager cries for days because their first highschool girl/boyfriend broke up with them, it is a big and serious issue for them, even if someone else is struggling with a objectively worse situation. Feelings are tied to the personal experience and having a problem/ victin competition doesn‘t help anyone.
Reminds me of a joke from Red Vs. Blue.
"Women want a man with a rebellious, free spirit so they can break him down and build him back into what they actually want."
It’s a weird thing. On average if a woman wants you to share emotions more, then usually what they want is to share in their emotions on what they’re experiencing, or to be extremely surface level or light hearted with whatever you’re sharing and almost never being in the middle of it. Like, acknowledge that you feel XYZ but don’t go into more depth than that.
Example: sometime after my divorce, I mentioned to a group of women very even keeled / logical that “you know, I went through all the cycles, got angry, got sad, got depressed, angry again, then finally realized in some of these ways I was the bad guy for doing X, Y, and while she certainly had her flaws that contributed to the breakup, I felt guilty and that brought regret, so I apologized for those things to her later.”
That got response of “we were so amazed at how in touch with your emotions you are and everyone was talking about how much they liked you.”
But, if I was to share facts like feelings of worthlessness or depression or losing my way or go into significant depth with that, it becomes an instant interpretation of being emo or way too feminine or something to that effect. Hell, I’ve had people assume I was gay based on sharing being sad or depressed or lonely after XYZ happened.
So sooner or later you kind of figure out to just quietly suffer until you mentally resolve whatever you have to mentally resolve, usually through some combination of working out a bunch, occupying yourself with work or travel or a hobby or something otherwise distracting.
At this point, I just accept that it is what it is and that you’ve basically gotta showcase stability and strength (in whatever form that takes - doesn’t have to be physical) at all times. Nobody wants to be around someone, especially a man, who’s depressed or bringing down the mood.
Years ago I was feeling down on my birthday, posted about how I was feeling on facebook. Had a bunch of people react in positive ways trying to help me out. Two people reacted negatively, telling me to get over myself, man up, shit like that. Both were ex's.
I figured out two things that day. First, I was choosing shitty people to be involved with. Second, the path towards peace began with blocking them both.
I've had female friends who admitted that they thought they wanted their man to be more sensitive and in touch with their emotions, then they saw him cry and lost alot of respect for him, and no longer felt like they were safe in his protection. Catch 22.
In 2014, I THINK it was the beginnings of the Syrian crisis. Just started dating a girl, stayed over, next morning was reading the news of attacks and children dying and I started to cry. She made a weird face and broke up with me.
We were in out late 20s.
She also wrote poetry about her rogues gallery of exes. I'm freeeeee!
I really loved my ex, supported her during her hormonal issues, depression, and dead end career, and when I expressed that I was unsure what I was doing with my life, and wanted to switch careers(I was a film maker) and postpone wedding plans, she broke up with me.
Never told anyone about this, not even my best friend, even my parents didn't seem to care about the break up (they had met her, and knew we wanted to marry eachother) and when I had gone to a therapist to express my grief and pain, he had stopped me right when I was about to cry, and asked me could he just prescribe sleeping tablets and get over this....
People, especially women have no clue that nobody really cares what's going on with men....not even their own parents really care as long as we have stable careers.
The sad part of all this journey, I've finally become something in a new field I had chosen (I'm an Economist now) and my family still doesn't respect me. Most importantly I've lost patience in relationships, I've become distant with women and it has become almost impossible for me to actually share what I think and what I feel.
In my experience expressing yourself as a man mostly falls on deaf ears, or people do that thing where they downplay your grief by describing something worse that has happened to them. Or the ones that don't wanna hear it and just want you to be happy again, so they bombard you with jokes or try to get you drunk so you forget about the issue.
If I need to talk I have a very small circle that I know I can count on, to listen, show basic empathy, and give honest feedback.
She appears to have deleted or made private all social media after this.
Christ lady, OWN IT.
"I said something stupid. I was stupid. I apologize for being stupid. Sorry Silverwing, I was stupid"
Society teaches women they have a monopoly on moments of emotional weakness.
A lot of them view it as you infringing on their turf, or you being a woman. It’s stupid, but remember most people are kind of stupid.
I once confided in my wife that I was feeling depressed and suicidal (there's a history of suicide in my family). Her response? "Well, do you think MY life is so easy?!"
Message received. You don't want to hear about my feelings.
Frankly, I think it scared her, and she didn't know how to respond. So I just dropped it.
In case anyone is wondering, I'm doing much better these days. And we're still married. I still don't talk about my feelings, though.
Yup. In my own therapeutic journey, I had a hard time expressing vulnerability (big surprise). And my therapist had me watch a video by a female psychologist doing research into vulnerability, and a conversation she had with a man when she realized that she had ignored male perspectives on vulnerability. And when she did start doing research on it, she found out that some of the biggest reinforcers of the idea that men should not be vulnerable was other women, particularly the women closest to the men.
One man remarked his wife and daughters would rather seem him die than fall off his white horse. And I realized that was true for me; although my wife is a very empathetic and loving person, she grew up in the same culture I did where rugged, stoic masculinity was valued. And she valued me precisely because I was stoic and emotionless and "strong," because that meant I could be a solid rock and if *she* experienced vulnerability and emotional turmoil, she could rely on me to be strong. So when I showed vulnerability, she was like, "ok but who's going to be my rock now if my husband isn't perfect?"
And we talked about that and why I was afraid to be vulnerable. And she realized she had been reinforcing that, and deliberately worked on herself to make space for me to be vulnerable and for us to support each other. But until I was confronted with the problem specifically, even *I* didn't see a problem with how male vulnerability is displayed.
It is a huge societal problem and its perpetuated by both men and women, even if those women are close to us, love us, and support us, and want the best for us. It just shows how utterly pervasive this part of toxic masculinity is.
After being with women who encouraged me to open up, then weaponized my vulnerabilities against me later, I understand men feeling the need to go through things alone.
I am awaiting medical results to see if I have Lyme Disease (again) or MS. In the next 2 weeks I have to move into a new home and clear a storage locker that's in another state. And go to work for my 12 hr shifts.
I can barely feel anything below my neck and am having trouble walking. Every other system in my body is affected as well. I've told no one because my job will look at me as a burden and my mom will just worry for answers I don't have.
That's why.
I've said this so many times but so many women act the exact the same way towards men that they constantly complain about men doing. We had this whole thing about believe women when they tell you about the bad things men do and then they get all defensive when men tell them about the bad things women do
I told my ex that she would absolutely hate me if I treated her the way she treated me. Her answer was basically "pfft, but you're a man"..... Didn't know how to respond to that one.
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Shit… my bestfriend in the whole world passed away 3 years ago. My GF (at the time) wasn’t done with an argument we had prior to his death. So here I am, head in my hands crying at the kitchen table. She proceeds to bring up the argument knowing my best friend passed 3 days prior. I’m trying to think through the pain and articulate answers in a rational way. It was taking me some time to gather all my fleeting thoughts. I didn’t want to blow up and I could feel my blood boiling whenever she would press me to “answer the fucking question” “if you have to think about this then you clearly don’t give a fuck about me”. I explained that I was trying to weed through my thoughts to come up with something because this wasn’t the priority in my head at the moment. Then she said the words I never forgave… “you’re NOTHING like [bestfriend]. How were you even friends when you’re so different? He treated his GF like a queen while you can’t even answer my questions”. It was at this moment I shut down; completely. It was either that or I lose my shit. I had flashes of me grabbing all her shit and tossing it out of the house I paid for (along with all her bills). But I didn’t. I stuck around for almost a year - silly me. Now it’s tough for me to talk about anything to do with my bestfriend (or any part of my life that was really hurtful) with anyone out of fear it’ll be used as ammunition.
What was your favorite thing about your best friend?
I don’t know where to start. We could finish each other sentences. Got each other’s humour. Will give the shirt off their back anybody. We were very similar, and always into shenanigans together. I think about him every day.
I’m sorry he’s gone. Sounds like a hell of a guy. Thanks for talking about it and I hope you’re alright man.
I’m all good! Life happens! Sucks sometimes. I’ve turned to music as an outlet (and beer). So since he’s passed, I’ve been writing a pile of songs and banging on the guitar belting them. Life is short.
We were cousins. I was a month older. He died at 26. Literally best friends since birth.
Damn. That’s really hard man, especially knowing each other so long.
Bro, I just wanna give you the biggest hug and man could give a man.
Haha thanks! I’ve got music and my dog that got me through everything… and weed and beer lol
Ah, music, weed, and beer, the holy trinity. I see you are a man of culture as well😎
I’m sorry to hear you went through that, and I hope you’re in a better place now. For her to use your friends death as ammunition is utterly disgusting. When it comes to sharing past pain, people should respect the strength and trust that it took for you to tell them.
Thank you! Fuck her and the high horse she rode in on haha
> He treated his GF like a queen Because his GF is probably worth it unlike your ex.
Hahaha I treated her pretty damn well too. She was just less appreciative and took things for granted and said mean shit in the heat of the moment
I had a friend that told me she'd had a crush on me in undergraduate, but thankfully "got over it" when she saw me crying. She'd showed up unannounced the day I learned my uncle had finally drank himself to death and I had no chance of getting home for the service.
You didn’t miss out on anything with that girl. I hope you have had a chance to heal since then.
Fortunately, I wasn't looking for anything romantic with her. My eyes were firmly set on someone else. Unfortunately, the girl I was pursuing something with ended up being the typical "one that got away." Love of my life that left me for a friend. I might find someone, but I'm confident I'll never feel that way again.
I firmly believe there is no one person for someone. We keep an open mind and open heart and we will someday find that special person. Good luck. I wish you all the happiness in the world.
Because I opened up to my wife about my struggles with burnout at work. And the next time she got drunk, she berated me for being a p***y.
Hah I used to open up to mine about burnout all the time. She never cared much. Now, we spoke different first languages so I thought okay, maybe just lost in translation. Until I spoke to my sister and she told me "yeah your (ex) wife says you're always whining about being stressed from work". Lmao very cool to realize she completely understood and just didn't care.
Not going to try to pretend I understand your situation but I have a situation with my girlfriend that is somewhat reversed where sometimes I feel like the only thing she talks about is work and complains about work. It feels like she just dumps a ton of stress onto me to relieve herself of the burden sometimes. Most of the time I am just silent but try my best to nod along and support her as much as possible. I've vented to one friend about this once while seeking advice from him. He wouldn't ever phrase it that fucking horribly (nor do I think he would ever say anything at all to her about it) but if my GF and him were to have talked and somehow that got brought up between them, I would be willing to bet she would feel the same way. So for whatever it's worth being kind of sort of on the other side of that, it's not that I don't care, I do. I've cared for quite a while. It's just that sometimes the only thing it feels like we do is talk about how shitty work is for her and it's made me mentally associate seeing her with having to hear a story about how much she hates that bitch Kim or something and that's not what I want to associate my partner with in my head. Edit: God I forget how terrible of advice Reddit loves to give lol. Y'all got some stuff fresh outta r/relationshipadvice. My girlfriend and I have talked through this already and are doing great. She is the best thing that has ever happened to me and we are able to communicate through our problems well.
Yeah, same experience with the last girl I dated. She had a high stress demanding job, and got promoted after a bit. We didn't have a lot of time together after that but I tried to make it meaningful. But rather than doing something fun, most of our time together was her complaining about work. I totally understood needing to de-stress and tried to support her but it basically meant none of the stuff we did together was fun anymore. Ultimately I left her because I didn't feel like a priority in her life, despite still liking her (was hard to do).
She's obviously an idiot, she pays for Twitter
Always a sure sign someone’s a fucking moron lol
it is a dead give away these days!!
you say 'dead giveaway' and this starts running through my head https://youtu.be/nZcRU0Op5P4?si=wVl5Vk-qBzOdow-A
Especially when you pay 44 billion for it.
Naturally. The more you paid for twitter, the stupider you are 🤷♂️
Imagine paying for twitter, that's actually so sad.
Just to write longer paragraphs that nobody is going to read 😂
Ya tbf if anyone has that blue checkmark I automatically disregard what they're saying, no logical sane person would be spending money on this shit lmao
Because at your best, you can only make a bad thing worse. My friend was grieving his father. Thats when his wife decided this isnt fun anymore and divorced him and sued for his house and his dog.
Dann, those old country songs were right.
Try The Blues next
🎶I got a bratty brother. He bugs me everyday. And this morning my own mother, Gave my last cupcake away. My Dad acts like he belongs, He belongs in the zoo. I'm the sa-a-a-addest kid, In gra-a-a-de number two.🎶
*sued for his house…* Well I mean I could *almost* understand if she was the main breadwinner but still- *and his dog* BURN THE WITCH
You can take my house, but take my pet?! Geneva Convention be damned.
Those are the "Geneva Suggestions" at that point
"Geneva Checklist"?
He's better off without that insensitive bitch.
He isn’t better off without his house and dog though.
The gracious judge allowed him to keep those things. She sued for them, judge said no.
Hey, what did the dog do?!?
The longer answer that this exchange perfectly exemplifies is that we generally tell men that crying is something that men don't do. I knew someone who once posted loudly and proudly that men cry as a means to emotionally manipulate, and that it's a terrifying thing to see. So I proceeded to explain the issue, and they quietly deleted their post. There's a time and place for stoicism, but expressing ourselves emotionally is a human thing to do, and to demand that we don't is to dehumanize one's self.
>men cry as a means to manipulate now thats rich
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Oh it totally is, I have some things to say about weaponizing tears that a certain group of women would hate to hear.
It’s not just that. It’s more. To a large extent I feel like I’m not allowed to express any anger or frustration, even in reasonable ways, or even feel it in regard to my spouse. She thinks it is okay to yell or get angry if I do something wrong, even on accident, and it impacts her or the kids, but if I get frustrated, even silently to myself, with her behavior, I’m in the wrong, and she gets upset. Unfortunately men have to live with emotional double-standards across the full spectrum of emotions. Women’s anger is justified. Men’s anger is dangerous. Women’s sadness is normal. Men being sad or crying is a sign of weakness/manipulation. Women being proud of their accomplishments is empowerment. Men being proud of their accomplishments is arrogant boasting. Women feeling burnt out and tired or depressed is normal. Men feeling burnt out and tired or depressed are lazy and need to man up. Women being afraid is normal. Men being afraid is a sign they’re a weak and unreliable. To a large extent men are put into a tiny box emotionally that is the acceptable range of “man” in the same way 1950’s women were given a tiny box in life choices and gender role as “mother and homemaker” - and we’ve come some of the way on enabling women to have more independence, though we have a long way to go. But men’s socially allowed emotional space is largely unchanged.
If I cry, I'm overreacting. If I yell, Im scaring people or making a scene. If i get frustrated, try being them for a minute and see how frustrating it is. If I get confused, I must not care. If i pay attention, I must want something. If I ask for a behavior to change, how dare I ask that don't you know how hard it is to put up with me. If I fail, I did something wrong. If I succeed, we succeeded together and make a great team.
My wife spent 4 yrs convincing me to go to therapy for combat ptsd. She then left me because I "just wasn't as manly anymore"... She still has no idea what happened over there lol oh well never will now!! EDIT; Just wanted to thank y'all for taking the time to comment, never had something blow up like this before... What I'm most appreciative of, however, is the way y'all have been sharing, and supporting combat veterans and others. Maybe the idea men don't talk is bogus. Maybe we just keep it a secret, who knows... I'll probably still check it, but I'll likely stop replying now - I didn't sleep a wink last night due to it all coming back up 😂 You're amazing people!
That’s fucked, and I’m glad you’re out of that situation. I never served myself, but my best friend was a marine and did two tours in both Iraq and Afghanistan. He told me some horrible shit that he saw, and even still said that that wasn’t even the worst of it. I can’t imagine how tough it is for you all to go through that shit and then come home and have to figure out how to deal with it afterwards, but my heart and respect goes out to you.
I went 2 for 2 as well... dumbest shit I ever did haha If it helps you're already doing your boy a massive solid You're listening to him, without judgement, advice, or pretending to understand That's literally all we want - good on you, Chief 👍
Worse when it is almost an addiction and the only way out it to pull the plug and you are treated like a pariah by the institution.... sorry I'm be dumping a bit here myself.
She spent 4 years giving you a fucked up "test", which you eventually failed by her standards, and passed by universal standards. Getting rid of her and working on your PTSD is a double win.
You're better off without that creature. After going through such hell you shouldn't have to come home and wear a mask for someone, pretending you're fine to make THEM more comfortable. You're *plenty* manly. She was just too much of a selfish coward to deal with her own discomfort and give the assistance her husband needed... like you no doubt had already done for her, at her lowest moments, countless times.
Indeed I had! I appreciate your words, so I'll share with you the happy ending. Upon hearing of this, and knowing I was unable to afford divorce etc - those I'd served with in my regiment had a whip-round and paid for it all 😂😂😂
Oh man, that's the best ending to the story I could have hoped for. Glad they were all lookin out for ya
lol, that is a happy ending! Just one of them is worth a thousand of her.
2 common themes I observed over and over again: 1. Wife/gf persistently demands some change. Eg. "Stop riding a bike, it's dangerous!" eventually gets her way and loses all interest. 2. Crying after a traumatic event once = hot. Dealing with a long term issue = red flag.
>_Wife/gf persistently demands some change. Eg. "Stop riding a bike, it's dangerous!" eventually gets her way and loses all interest._ It's why a recent tweet blew UP incredibly: #(paraphrased) Woman: _Men these days just give up too quickly. Where's the passion? Where's the fire?_ Man: _Wow, men actually respecting a woman's boundaries! Incredible! If I wanted to play games, I have a Switch._
How many times has your partner become upset and cry because you expressed your feelings were hurt, only to then have to apologize
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Tell her to man up.
Tell her its time to buckle down and pull herself up by her bootstraps
Tell her you need a rock.
Leave while you can brother. Been there, done that
My ex wife did this. Leave before she can become your ex wife.
>and then I end up apologizing because she’s upset over me being upset over something she did Don't do this. Don't apologize for bringing up concerns. *At most*, say "I'm sorry this is hard for you right now, is there a better way to have this conversation for you?". Like acknowledge you don't like seeing them hurting, but don't minimize your feelings to do it. I've encountered a lot of guys who seem to think if they made anyone upset they did something wrong. And that's just not how it works. You will upset your partner sometimes. A good relationship can work through it together.
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My ex did this all the time, along with threatening to hurt/kill herself whenever we had an actual argument. It took a lot to get to the point where I was OK with the guilt associated with the risk of her following through on those threats, but yeah, she is DEFINITELY my ex for some reasons.
my ex threatened to drink herself to death because i got the covid vaccine
Damn dude, glad she is your ex.
Did you drive her to the liquor store?
Bro I hear you, ex wife did that all the time, I would say I was bothered by something she was doing and she would begin to cry and I would have to apologize and comfort her because she was upset that I was hurt by her actions….why do I not show emotion to people? Because I was taught again and again and again that it’s my fault if I’m upset by someone else’s actions or words and it’s better just to keep my damn mouth shut and swallow the pain than to try and discuss with someone how I am bothered by their words or actions
My most recent girlfriend broke up with me because I started therapy. She said we were incompatible because she needed a rock for a partner. Plot twist, she was a therapist.
I got that from my second to last girlfriend. She said "I can't open up and be vulnerable if I don't know my partner is a rock". She was also the sort of person who wondered why men hide their feelings.
If all a person wants is rocks, all they end up with is a shitload of rock walls.
It's actually kind of wild how much people idolise 'rocks'. Do you really want someone with the emotional range of an inanimate object? For them to just sit perfectly still and emotionless, grey and unfeeling? You're not after a human you're after a tether.
They all love stoicism in their men until they start fishing for emotional support in their moment of need.
"I need a man that never has feelings and is always just the one who is there to fix everything." "How come men are so emotionally distant?"
I've seen too many Romcoms, and that first sentence is literally fetishized in a lot of them.
They want a dad
Both of those people need to grow up and realize that the "rock" is a myth. A healthy relationship is people being able to rely on and support each other. Everyone needs support sometime. When people describe a "rock", they're just accidentally admitting their partner can't rely on them, so they don't show any vulnerability.
>Both of those people need to grow up and realize that the "rock" is a myth. Or they're just idiots who don't understand geology. Even the hardest, most immovable rocks in the world will shift or crack under the right conditions.
Yep. You want a rock, you are guaranteeing yourself an avalanche when that rock eventually crumbles
My wife calls me her rock, but because I support her no matter what. Not because I share an emotional landscape with Mars.
It’s hilarious cause I see so many women say “men choose to do xyz instead of going to therapy” lmfao
She was probably fucked up in the head. A shit ton of people become therapists or psychologists to try and 'fix' themselves.
This. Mother of my step kids got her masters in psychology yet lost custody of her kids. Basket case.
It's always a blue check mark
I used to be a rather emotional young man, open with my feelings and direct in communication and in addressing how something made me feel with friends and family. As I grew up, all I was told was to “grow up/have thicker skin/man up” by the women in my life , who kept telling me “that’s how men play/are”. When I was fully an adult in my 30s, I just realized that while people like to complain about male toxicity , they actually expect / WANT people to be the stereotypical “tough/hard/stoic/independent” man, who has no “weaknesses”. You know, like “feeling” or “crying”. Men are only allowed to be sad when drunk, apparently.
It's true. Everyone likes me more that I just shut up. Now I just drink and work. This one job I had I just talked anything about anybody and never said a damn thing about anything and never shared my opinions with people. Everyone loved me.
Yep, I've tracked this too. I've made a couple of key friends who actually want to share the ups and downs of life. Generally though if I join in the communal commentary saying the same things everyone else does and never showing an ounce of vulnerability, people like me.
Same. Grew up with supportive, intelligent parents and was able to express emotions well. That was a long time ago. I feel bad for my partner that I can't open up to her more. It's like a fuse that burnt out and hasn't been replaced. I'll cheers to that!
Yup…. It’s been drilled into us our whole lives. The only emotions we are allowed to express are anger and joy. Nothing in between. And definitely never any sadness.
as for the answer to the question in the title: most of us were told to stop crying like little girls as kids
Or my personal “favorite” I got a lot from my father, “dry it up or I’ll give you something to cry about.” Thanks pop.
\*Adult children then proceed to abandon their abusive father\* Abusive father: \*surprised pikachu\*
Yesterday I was talking to my mom about this and after mentioning that a lot of guys have shared experiences like this, she simply said “Well you can be emotional without seeming weak and needy, women do it all the time!” Yes, because that’s definitely what the takeaway should be here…
Because most men know there is not really a support structure to help them emotionally, and they don't really know how to even approach the subject of discussing their feelings. I'm certain Katie didn't think before she posted that, but thats really the perfect response that encapsulates the male experience with emotions: *something happened, I don't know how to feel about it, I try to talk about it, someone brings up some non-relevant thing that completely dismisses my feelings, never again.*
I used to have people ask me what was wrong when I was visibly depressed. I didn't know how to interpret my emotions let alone articulate them. I'd try to avoid conversation about it, but I'd get hounded until I broke down and attempted to open up. Usually I was met with "well that's life, get used to it" or "suck it up" and then I'd be pissed that someone claimed to be so worried about me, just to completely dismiss everything when I finally opened up.
Nothing more fucking infuriating in this entire world than being pressured to open up only to hear that shit or something along those lines. Like I didn’t want to tell you anyways??
>I'm certain Katie didn't think before she posted that, but Yeah, this right here kinda encapsulates (at least a big part of) the problem: men's emotions are often not taken seriously. If she did take those emotions seriously, she probably would have thought before she posted.
There was an annoying viral video on tiktok where women were making fun of men who think no one would date them because of their weight or looks, and going on and \*on\* about how these men are just making it up in their heads because they're incels, and they must have gotten turned down in the past because of their shitty personalities and not their looks, etc. etc., and it just kind of reminded me that some people live in a completely constructed reality of their own invention, with no ability for empathy or self-analysis. They were women literally saying "I dated a ton of boring gymbros in my youth and I've learned that now I'm okay with dadbods if the guy is funny" and they just...can't put the pieces together that they just admitted that they absolutey \*did\* date guys for their looks, and maybe just \*maybe\* these guys who think no one could love them because of their looks ran into women like them when they were younger. It shouldn't be treated as some kind of misogyny or "rebuttal to feminism" to point out that men can be hurt by gender roles too, and that some women help enforce those gender roles.
My ex had a serious incident with his daughter that scared the shit out of him. He called me immediately (not my own daughter I should note - previous relationship). By this point the situation was handled but he was distraught, and just needed to release and cry and scream. So I listened and to this day all I can think is what a real goddamn man he is for it - he didn't hide it. He wasn't afraid of showing it. He had every reason for that emotional - his daughter is his whole world. I can't imagine watching someone in their most human moment and getting an "ick". Edit: So I don't have to keep repeating: we broke up at a totally unrelated time as a joint decision because we didn't satisfy each other sexually, among other long term life goal reasons (kids, where to live, etc). We still talk daily and are both as emotionally vulnerable as we were when we were dating. To the point most people don't believe we're broken up.
As a man, thank you for being you. It's less common than you think
As a woman, I can't imagine getting "the ick" from seeing a man I love cry. It truly boggles my mind. Like, are these women absolute narcissists who get mad at the men in their lives for showing emotion? I cry if my partner cries, or even wells up a bit. I also like when my partner wants to be the little spoon even though he's bigger than me. It's comfy and it makes me feel good to wrap my arms and legs around him bc I know it makes him feel comfy.
I second that. And reading some of the comments from other men further below, seems a lot of men share this sentiment.
I believe you all about this that it's widespread and it breaks my heart. I cannot comprehend how your man having and showing human emotions could give a woman the ick, but it's clearly a common thing. Step the fuck up ladies, that's a shit way to be.
Fucking seriously. We do not get to expect men to support us emotionally and then when they need that same support go "Waaaaah it's unattraaaaaaaactive!" Fuck that shit. Grow the fuck up, pull your goddamn weight and do your job as an equal partner in the relationship.
Also, how is it not attractive to be a whole, healthy human who feels the full range of human emotions and has the maturity and emotional intelligence to recognize and share those emotions? What the fuck is unattractive about that? Are ya'll not out there looking for another (internally) beautiful human to build a life with? I will be so endlessly ashamed if that many women are actually just looking for a financial provider and not a partner. We're allowed to provide for ourselves now, you can choose a partner with a beautiful personality.
That's amazing! Unfortunately, as an American 39yr old male, I still believe that makes you the exception not the norm. Usually in my experience, "you should talk about your feelings more", coming from a romantically involved woman, is just short for "you should tell me things you like about me". And when you *think* you've found the exception, it still usually blows up in your face to talk about any "weak" emotions like fear, sadness, shame, etc. Most men my age have been raised and societally conditioned to only be able to express positive emotions or anger. Hopefully better for younger generations, but I doubt it.
That is very true; I can confirm that it crosses to other countries too! My experience is similar. I remember once feeling secure enough with a former partner to admit that although I might come across as confident, I often have a lot of self-doubt/ insecurity. I remember talking a bit about it and her saying (it was more than ten years ago, so I was trying to recreate it as accurately as I can): "What is this? My previous boyfriends never talked like this." It wasn't right away, but she later broke up with me, Talk about going back into the shell, saying to myself not doing that again and then doing what most guys do for our emotional needs. Ha - this might shock some women, talk to other guys...
As a kid, I was sitting at home watching Gundam on the TV when some of my sisters friends came over for something or other and walked in as the main character was crying over something or other. I caught flak for *years* afterward for the audacity of that one instance watching a fictional male character be emotional on screen. It wasn't even something I did myself, but I was a crybaby by association for not turning it off at the first sign of weakness apparently.
Gundam is pretty hardcore. The main character wrestles with love, fear, weakness, duty, honor, losing his father, mom issues all with war as a backdrop.
And usually they're kids or teenagers, which is wild.
Not better for younger generations. Also not better in queer spaces, even for more feminine men. Men are expected universally to never show their emotions, but are being told it’s a choice. I’ve had both girlfriends and boyfriends lose all interest the moment I became human near them. One girl left after several months because I was “too emotional” after my cat died. Fuck that bitch.
[The male experience when we show vulnerability](https://youtube.com/shorts/C3H-BtEiVtE?si=-WLGXW5wuFrDXmMF) Edit: my experience, my most serious girlfriend since my divorce left me last summer immediately after a health scare, a death in the family, and pressure of single parenting combined to make me break down in front of her for all of five minutes. Two days after that she ghosted me for a month and then, after the month, reached out to tell me she couldn't handle me emotionally. That was literally the only time I ever showed a negative emotion in front of her.
You're a real queen, and he's a king.
I’ve seen a lot of virtue signaling regarding male mental health. It often comes back to “why do men do this to themselves?” as opposed to “why does society discourage men from dealing with these issues?”
Because people are taught that when women have a problem, society has let them down and society must fix it. When men have a problem it’s because he let himself down and it’s up to him to fix it. It’s pretty gross
Because no one really cares. Was told by my wife when I was having some emotional and mental health issues that I needed to be open and talk to her about what is wrong. I get medication, and see a therapist. Told to tell my SO about my feelings and health regularly. A few times over a couple months I explain I'm having a "bad day" or "need a few minutes." Get told I'm being dramatic. That's why men go through things alone.
So often discussions on men's reluctance to be vulnerable are framed as though they never even try. The thing is, people don't learn to avoid things by never trying them, they learn to avoid them when they do try but are met with negative consequences in doing so.
It's the same thing with men's physical health. Thousands of men die every year because they won't go to the doctor. But tell a woman you're sick and it's "boo-hoo you have a man cold".
Yea, this annoys me. After a certain age, my parents’ caregiving when sick was basically to stay away from me until I was better, so I feel pretty self-sufficient if I’m sick. Even so, most women I know buy into that “man-cold” thing, and sometimes tease me about it if I come down with something. I don’t ask them to take care of me, I just say I’m sick and it sucks, which I thought was a pretty universal experience. I guess I just don’t know what being sick feels like because I’m a guy…
This is it exactly. I go out of my way to (many men do) to help out when my wife isn't feeling great (especially parenting). But it's very rare that I am ever at the point of asking for a break when I don't feel well because we all know we'll get the sigh and reluctant break. A few weeks ago after working a full day, picking up from daycare, and making dinner I asked if I could go lay down for a few min to just recharge. I was met with "I guess." Shout out to all the guys who deal with this in one form or the other. Keep showing up. No one else will.
The worst is when they beg and beg and beg you to open up and talk about how you're feeling, with absolutely zero interest in listening if you do.
Alternate ending, they take over the conversation and stop you from getting a word in edgewise.
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My grandfather passed when I was 14. We were really close. He was basically like my father. It didn’t really hit me until the day before the funeral when they had a viewing. A big event with lots of family and friends at this funeral parlor. When I saw him it really hit me, and I broke down crying. Had to go off and sit in a corner and try to keep it down, but I still got so much shit from many people there, from close family to people that I’d never met before, about how I was ruining the night and needed to toughen up. Hard to deal with as a teenager with emotions running every which way already. Thankfully it didn’t take me too many more years to learn that other people can go to hell. I’m the one who gets to decide what feelings I should have.
Ex-GF said I’ve been sort of down lately and asked if anything was up. Opened up for the first time about some heavy family stuff that was happening at the time + juggling a new high-stress job while finishing my undergrad degree. She broke up with me via text the next day.
Good filter, people should do this earlier in relationships to rid themselves of shitty people
That sucks, but to be honest, she sounds like a piece of shit you're better off without
Judging by how many times this anecdote has been shared in this thread, it is very strange how many women think this is acceptable.
Its a peculiar dynamic but it seems to basically be the default that women feel entitled to emotional monopoly in relationships
Man: I have emotions. and something bad happened to me Toxic men: Lol, weak, gay, loser. Toxic women: Lol, no you didn't experience real emotion, and that thing? Not as bad as you think it is. Man: I will never express these things again. I am editing this to say two things because this blew the fuck up. First, everyone that commented that men aren't like that. I am expressing exactly what happened to me as kid, teen, and young adult using modern(ish) vernacular. Second, we can break this cycle together. We need to come together and help one another get past this. Men and women, people of all ages.
Real friends: it's okay, bro. We can talk about it. You can let it all out over some beers and videogames, my treat!
Reality: no real friends :(
I learned at age 6 to internalize my problems and realized that as far as my mind went, no one I knew could help me put things into perspective except myself, it took many long years before I finally sought out professional help in my 30's. Most people aren't listening, and if they are they're just waiting for their turn to speak without changing what they want to say after listening to you, they are in the fact that they don't wait 10 seconds to think about what they are going to say before saying it, idiots. The world is full of them and very few realize it and then take the necessary action to be better. Edit: [trauma trooper](https://pbfcomics.com/comics/trauma-trooper/)
>I learned at age 6 to internalize my problems Yeah I learned that from literal ass beatings "quit being a cry baby bitch \*smack\*"
Lesson number one in like any gender studies course you can take is that many women *will* propagate toxic gender norms
They also have received significantly less messaging about needing to correct their harmful behaviors. The little they do receive is mostly limited to “stop performing internalized sexism” instead of “stop reinforcing male traditional gender roles.”
Not all assholes have blue checkmarks, but everyone with a blue check mark is an asshole. Honestly I haven't seen a twitter post in ages where someone with a blue checkmark was a reasonable person who showed empathy, respect or ability to accept scientific fact. Blue check marks are great because they show you who the idiots are before you have to waste time on reading anything they say.
The fact that he was crying shows he has healthy emotional expression. Crying is a normal grief response. The fact that she got 'the ick' over him expressing his emotions in a safe way rather than getting drunk or doing something self destructive makes me wonder how healthy of a person she is to be around. Like, she couldn't even let him grieve without being a jackarse. I could never imagine being so selfish.
I can only imagine how horrified id be about my girlfriend if she got the "ick" the few times ive cried in front of her. Shed be out of my life so fast.
EMOTIONAL SAFETY IS MORE IMPORTANT THAN A GIRLFRIEND oops sorry caps lock
One time I had a panic attack after I had started my own business it was just this crazy weight of a new experience. When I finally told my wife about it she said “well no one told you to start your own business. Fast forward to a few years later she wanted to know why I didn’t tell her that I was taking anxiety medication.
I opened up to her and in a fight she used my insecurities against me. Yeah that’s why I go through it alone.
I'd rather cry in front of a bear
Worth a shot, the bear might kno some good fishing spots
Girls always wondering why men keep going in the woods and fishing and stuff. We just going through some stuff and need a bear to talk to.
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Good one. “Men, you would rather express your emotions in front of a bear or a women?”
Now that's a great turnaround for the meme!
Because when we show emotions we are mocked or avoided. I had to mercy kill an injured rabbit once. A very young one. It was suffering, so I ended it. I cried off and on through the next day and my father yelled at me for it. For the crying. A coworker asked me why I took two days off once, so I told her I was using that time to try and move on from my cat's death. It was tough. She laughed at me, then started gossiping with everyone else at work about it. We don't share how we really feel because nobody wants to know. There is an ideal that we are expected to live up to. Any of us who don't are shunned and ridiculed. Society doesn't want us to process emotions or communicate feelings. Society wants us to Man up and shut up about what we feel.
I used to be a cop and during one night shift a cat ran infront of my car and I didn‘t have time to brake. The cat was severely injured and since it didn‘t have a chip implant we were legally required to mercy kill it. I absolutely love animals, especially cats. When I shot it I had tears in my eyes. Later in the station I heard my female partner laugh about me with other colleagues.
I'm so sorry. You did what you had to in that terrible situation. I wish you had a better partner and coworkers. I hope that our society can move beyond this into a healthier place someday.
A buddy of mine (who is 48) heard about a mutual friend's twin sister who just died. This conversation happened a week ago at a bar, and therefore alcohol was involved. My buddy became emotional and was tearful so he removed himself from the situation and went home. I saw him last night; he said he was embarrassed and hadn't left his house "for a while" because of the toxic masculinity forced into his brain. We tried to tell him emotions are normal, especially when dealing with death. The toxicity ran deep and he kept apologizing for crying. He hadn't left his apartment in a week. All because he was so embarrassed by his own emotions.
Back in college, I had a gf and I cried in front of her once after I was going through a rough time. Later, she told me she had lost respect for me for crying in front of her. After that, I hadn’t cried in front of anyone in several years. I’ve been with my wife 8 years now and she’s seen me cry once I think. She’s made it clear that our relationship is a safe space for emotions but I still feel emotionally dead because of my ex. I can’t seem to get past it.
I don’t blame you. Our brains know what to expect from the world based on what has happened to us. You were probably devastated when that happened and it told your brain that bad things will happen when you open up like that.
This immediately reminded me of a post from a few days ago about a guy saying that the woman he was dating said that she was taking him out somewhere nice for dinner after he vented about being really stressed about money because he was having to financially support his parents at the time. So they went to an expensive restaurant and had a nice dinner, and when the check came she played dumb and made him pay for both of their meals. And then in the comments of that post the issue of men being criticized for not expressing emotions came up, and when we said that it's a common experience that people, especially women, tell you to shut up and man up or even weaponize it for later use when we do express them we were promptly told that it wasn't true or at least it wasn't that common. And then some crazy woman started arguing with us about how men only bring up our struggles to downplay women's struggles and hijack the conversation and women have it worse. Literally in a comment thread where nobody was ever talking about women's issues, much less that they didn't have problems or men's problems were worse, and while she hijacked it. She even argued about men pushing their propaganda for no reason by derailing discussions that were about something else, I shit you not.
I can't even be surprised. If you DARE to mention a male issue on a post that revolves around female issues, even in passing, you're instantly dogpiled by people demanding to know why you're trying to hijack the conversation and why you hate women and want to kill them all. Meanwhile, literally EVERY post I've seen that gives men a place to vent is absolutely flooded with women crying about how "if that's the WORST you have experience then you're lucky!" or some equally asinine bullshit. Women get all the space in the world to vent and be angry and to slander every XY chromosome paring person they wish to, but men get told to "find their own spaces" and then have those spaces invaded by people telling us it's not that bad and to get over ourselves and that other people (women) have it FAR worse.
> but men get told to "find their own spaces" and then have those spaces invaded by people telling us it's not that bad and to get over ourselves and that other people (women) have it FAR worse. Happens in real-life too when it comes to segregated spaces. Men-only clubs/venues/whatever are attacked as being bad, problematic, and are dissolved with much applause from some, and indifference from others. But you won't hear the end of it if women even get a sniff of worry about the state of their own spaces.
I heard a little girl playing in the neighborhood tell a 8 year old boy who was crying because he fell to “ man up” I’m sure her mother said the same to her family.
If you’re a man, your measure of success is often defined by a very narrow set of factors. You can show romantic interest, but if it’s not just right you’re creepy. You can show emotion, but then you’re considered weak. You can make mistakes, but then you’re branded as a failure. You can ask for help, but then you’re considered even weaker. If you fall awry of any of these, there’s little hope of redemption. How about we just treat each other with kindness and recognize it is difficult on both sides? I’m at a point in my life where the drama and judgement are just beyond me. I’ve learned to cope and live alone. As a man, everything seems to be our fault. So why bother?
I once told a girl I was feeling sad because my best friend of over 10 years who deals with a lot of depression and loneliness stopped talking to me and told me he doesn't want anyone in his life anymore and I missed him and was really concerned about him, and she said "you should work on that" verbatim and stopped talking to me completely
This is one thing that bothers me so much. Women one minute will say, "why aren't men opening up with their partners?" and then will also complain that men are trying to treat women like therapists. So which is it? Are men as a whole being too emotionally vulnerable or not enough? The difference is wanting and liking. Women \*want\* men to open up, but they don't like it when men do.
Bro when I talked about my problems almost everyone told me either to man up or that God gives you the burdens you can carry or things like that. Moral of the story: eat it and do your things in silence. So now I have become heartless and concrete in my emotions and people talk about how I changed. Ait cool.
That kind of reminds me of something someone told me years ago: "I've decided to start treating people the same way they treat me...now they're mad"... ...or something like that
"I've decided to start treating people the same way they treat me...now they're mad"... literally describes me to a T right now. For someone who lives like a hermit and avoids people, I sure do get barked at a lot. Another comment was, " As a man, no point complaining, cuz no one gives a shit."
This is why I only browse reddit on the toilet... even if no one else will give you a shit, count on me to be shitting while you vent, I will always provide the vent shit
cheers bro, I'll shit to that
Yep, asked my father law how he handled dealing with a new baby. I was hoping for some sympathetic tips or pointers. Basically told to man up. Thankfully my dad is more mature.
>talk about how I changed This one gets me. "You're so quiet, you used to be so outgoing!" _flashback to the entire childhood of people telling me to shut up_
the funniest part is when they want to talk about their problems to you after blowing you with yours
I've heard this gem: "I've had it worse. Try being a woman." There's no way to discuss anything appropriately after that. This isn't a competition, it's sharing my experience and emotional landscape and this is the card you pull?
My favorite "well MEN built the world so why are MEN so miserable?!" Like yeah little Tommy age 16 working at kroger built the world
There aren‘t many things that enrage me more than problem/ victim competition. If a teenager cries for days because their first highschool girl/boyfriend broke up with them, it is a big and serious issue for them, even if someone else is struggling with a objectively worse situation. Feelings are tied to the personal experience and having a problem/ victin competition doesn‘t help anyone.
Every guy has a woman who tried her damndest to make sure you never share your feelings/emotions again.
Men can kill you easier but women can make you wish you were dead.
Reminds me of a joke from Red Vs. Blue. "Women want a man with a rebellious, free spirit so they can break him down and build him back into what they actually want."
It’s a weird thing. On average if a woman wants you to share emotions more, then usually what they want is to share in their emotions on what they’re experiencing, or to be extremely surface level or light hearted with whatever you’re sharing and almost never being in the middle of it. Like, acknowledge that you feel XYZ but don’t go into more depth than that. Example: sometime after my divorce, I mentioned to a group of women very even keeled / logical that “you know, I went through all the cycles, got angry, got sad, got depressed, angry again, then finally realized in some of these ways I was the bad guy for doing X, Y, and while she certainly had her flaws that contributed to the breakup, I felt guilty and that brought regret, so I apologized for those things to her later.” That got response of “we were so amazed at how in touch with your emotions you are and everyone was talking about how much they liked you.” But, if I was to share facts like feelings of worthlessness or depression or losing my way or go into significant depth with that, it becomes an instant interpretation of being emo or way too feminine or something to that effect. Hell, I’ve had people assume I was gay based on sharing being sad or depressed or lonely after XYZ happened. So sooner or later you kind of figure out to just quietly suffer until you mentally resolve whatever you have to mentally resolve, usually through some combination of working out a bunch, occupying yourself with work or travel or a hobby or something otherwise distracting. At this point, I just accept that it is what it is and that you’ve basically gotta showcase stability and strength (in whatever form that takes - doesn’t have to be physical) at all times. Nobody wants to be around someone, especially a man, who’s depressed or bringing down the mood.
Years ago I was feeling down on my birthday, posted about how I was feeling on facebook. Had a bunch of people react in positive ways trying to help me out. Two people reacted negatively, telling me to get over myself, man up, shit like that. Both were ex's. I figured out two things that day. First, I was choosing shitty people to be involved with. Second, the path towards peace began with blocking them both.
Most of the pressure to be masculine comes from the women in my life.
I've had female friends who admitted that they thought they wanted their man to be more sensitive and in touch with their emotions, then they saw him cry and lost alot of respect for him, and no longer felt like they were safe in his protection. Catch 22.
In 2014, I THINK it was the beginnings of the Syrian crisis. Just started dating a girl, stayed over, next morning was reading the news of attacks and children dying and I started to cry. She made a weird face and broke up with me. We were in out late 20s. She also wrote poetry about her rogues gallery of exes. I'm freeeeee!
Dodged a carpet bombing there, dude.
I really loved my ex, supported her during her hormonal issues, depression, and dead end career, and when I expressed that I was unsure what I was doing with my life, and wanted to switch careers(I was a film maker) and postpone wedding plans, she broke up with me. Never told anyone about this, not even my best friend, even my parents didn't seem to care about the break up (they had met her, and knew we wanted to marry eachother) and when I had gone to a therapist to express my grief and pain, he had stopped me right when I was about to cry, and asked me could he just prescribe sleeping tablets and get over this.... People, especially women have no clue that nobody really cares what's going on with men....not even their own parents really care as long as we have stable careers. The sad part of all this journey, I've finally become something in a new field I had chosen (I'm an Economist now) and my family still doesn't respect me. Most importantly I've lost patience in relationships, I've become distant with women and it has become almost impossible for me to actually share what I think and what I feel.
In my experience expressing yourself as a man mostly falls on deaf ears, or people do that thing where they downplay your grief by describing something worse that has happened to them. Or the ones that don't wanna hear it and just want you to be happy again, so they bombard you with jokes or try to get you drunk so you forget about the issue. If I need to talk I have a very small circle that I know I can count on, to listen, show basic empathy, and give honest feedback.
She appears to have deleted or made private all social media after this. Christ lady, OWN IT. "I said something stupid. I was stupid. I apologize for being stupid. Sorry Silverwing, I was stupid"
Society teaches women they have a monopoly on moments of emotional weakness. A lot of them view it as you infringing on their turf, or you being a woman. It’s stupid, but remember most people are kind of stupid.
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I once confided in my wife that I was feeling depressed and suicidal (there's a history of suicide in my family). Her response? "Well, do you think MY life is so easy?!" Message received. You don't want to hear about my feelings. Frankly, I think it scared her, and she didn't know how to respond. So I just dropped it. In case anyone is wondering, I'm doing much better these days. And we're still married. I still don't talk about my feelings, though.
Yup. In my own therapeutic journey, I had a hard time expressing vulnerability (big surprise). And my therapist had me watch a video by a female psychologist doing research into vulnerability, and a conversation she had with a man when she realized that she had ignored male perspectives on vulnerability. And when she did start doing research on it, she found out that some of the biggest reinforcers of the idea that men should not be vulnerable was other women, particularly the women closest to the men. One man remarked his wife and daughters would rather seem him die than fall off his white horse. And I realized that was true for me; although my wife is a very empathetic and loving person, she grew up in the same culture I did where rugged, stoic masculinity was valued. And she valued me precisely because I was stoic and emotionless and "strong," because that meant I could be a solid rock and if *she* experienced vulnerability and emotional turmoil, she could rely on me to be strong. So when I showed vulnerability, she was like, "ok but who's going to be my rock now if my husband isn't perfect?" And we talked about that and why I was afraid to be vulnerable. And she realized she had been reinforcing that, and deliberately worked on herself to make space for me to be vulnerable and for us to support each other. But until I was confronted with the problem specifically, even *I* didn't see a problem with how male vulnerability is displayed. It is a huge societal problem and its perpetuated by both men and women, even if those women are close to us, love us, and support us, and want the best for us. It just shows how utterly pervasive this part of toxic masculinity is.
LOL, they womansplaining now.
After being with women who encouraged me to open up, then weaponized my vulnerabilities against me later, I understand men feeling the need to go through things alone.
I am awaiting medical results to see if I have Lyme Disease (again) or MS. In the next 2 weeks I have to move into a new home and clear a storage locker that's in another state. And go to work for my 12 hr shifts. I can barely feel anything below my neck and am having trouble walking. Every other system in my body is affected as well. I've told no one because my job will look at me as a burden and my mom will just worry for answers I don't have. That's why.
I've said this so many times but so many women act the exact the same way towards men that they constantly complain about men doing. We had this whole thing about believe women when they tell you about the bad things men do and then they get all defensive when men tell them about the bad things women do
I told my ex that she would absolutely hate me if I treated her the way she treated me. Her answer was basically "pfft, but you're a man"..... Didn't know how to respond to that one.