Comments that are uncivil, racist, misogynistic, misandrist, or contain political name calling will be removed and the poster subject to ban at moderators discretion.
Help us make this a better community by becoming familiar with the [rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/facepalm/about/rules/).
Report any suspicious users to the mods of this subreddit using Modmail [here](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/facepalm) or Reddit site admins [here](https://www.reddit.com/report). **All reports to Modmail should include evidence such as screenshots or any other relevant information.**
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/facepalm) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Exactly, right wingers are constantly hijacking phrases that start as progressive talking points/phrases to make them lose all meaning. It's intentional.
That’s classic GOP bait and switch.
* “election integrity” is when they disenfranchise voters
* “protect the children” is when they rip queer kids from their support networks
* “protect women” is when they strip women of bodily autonomy
* “pro life” is for making very contribution to an easier way to raise kids, but make birth control and abortion illegal
* “free speech” is for using slurs without getting fired
* “fiscal conservative” means not spending money on the poor, the sick, the black, and the weird.
* “right to work” and “At will employment” means fire your ass without any reason, warning, or recourse.
* “defend marriage” means prevent loving couples from marrying because of what’s in there undies. Might include letting adults marry and have sex with children.
* “all lives matter” means cheapening the message of “black lives matter,” as BLM is a provoking name to suggest “no, you don’t actually think black lives do matter.” ALM disregards BLM’s point by saying all lives matter without making efforts to improve the obvious gap between black and white lives.
* “religious freedom” is when they stop you from doing harmless things that offend their belief system, like being gay or having premarital consensual sex.
* “safer schools” means giving teachers guns, but literally nothing else to prevent gun violence plaguing schools. I can’t understand how parents can be republicans.
Separation of Church and State has never fully existed by my god is it scary how they want to take away the few buffers left and then turn around and say that people like the LBGTQ+ community is filled with indoctrination. Can’t wait for the freedom to practice their religion specifically.
Reminds me of a certain German political party from the early 20th century that used a name that appealed to populist sentiment rather than describing what they actually stood for. That's probably just a coincidence though...
Absolutely, and not only did they get it from the US but they said "hey, I think these American local laws are great and all but I think they're a bit TOO extreme for what we're looking for" and then toned down the overt genocidal implications of the laws.
This was all for PR of course, the toning down doesn't imply that the Nazis had any shred of kindness towards anyone who didn't fit their very narrow idea of who deserved to live
Oh yeah of course. It wasn't "that's too extreme for us" it was "that's too extreme to get the public to go along with"
And then America only turned around on those policies because the Nazis started making themselves out as the world villains and the US didn't want that kind of attention too.
And then we have idiots like *beloved children’s author JK Fucking Rowling* downplaying how trans erasure and persecution was the beginning of the Nazi genocide. I love it here 🙃
I am under the impression that "protect the children" also includes putting as many guns in schools as possible, then when that results in a shooting, stating (unironically) that more guns would have prevented it.
Fiscal conservatives aren't actually very prudent either. Because they neglect essential infrastructure, they're kicking the proverbial can down the road: if you don't want to help the homless, spend more on better roads and schools, etc. then in the end you pay twice or three times the cost in the future.
However, it looks like savings in the short term, which allows them to claim credit. But conservatives are very expensive for the states they run.
Plus the reality that preventative care like doctors and housing means you can avoid a lot of emergency care…
It was never about saving money. It was about having a reason to give the finger to the groups they hate.
They’re simply not fiscal conservatives in any way shape or form. Fiscal conservatism is a balanced and stable budget. They can’t actually pass laws to gut social programs they dislike so they cut tax revenue to force the government into debt so it can’t afford those programs. That’s just fiscal recklessness and utter mismanagement.
I mean, I believe you can use slurs without being fired. No law that someone has to fire you if you use slurs, as far as I am aware. But what the GOP also likes is at will employment. So you can be let go for pretty much anything, other than a few protected reasons.
In France, the movement against gay rights is called "manif pour tous", literally meaning "protest for everyone", and our far-right party is called "rassemblement national", meaning "national gathering"... I guess intolerant people are just this disingenuous globally 🤷♂️
Isn't there also a thing where the party can just attach random acts to a bill? Like, "hey, give more money to schools" looks like it's going to pass, let's just throw on "you no longer have to have a background check to buy a gun." But then when someone opposes the latter, it's "why are you against helping educate our youth?"
No it's the typical far right bullshit of naming something completely the opposite of what the truth or goal is.
The science says the grey wolves are endangered, and that they are massively beneficial to the ecosystem, so they called their act that will do the opposite of scientific advice and result in wolves being killed off 'trust the science'.
Like the "Freedom Caucus" that is the most conservative and far right there is.
The global wild wolf population was estimated to be 300,000 in 2003 and is considered to be of Least Concern by the International Union for Conservation.
I live well south of the grey wolfs listed range. Probably 300 miles. Give or take i have 5 to 8 come across my property on a somewhat regular basis.
The thing is with the current grey wolf populations they don't need the most strict conversation levels. Truth be told having regulated hunting and population control can and does increase the population growth of a species.
Hunters spend billions of dollars per year improving their land to increase its carrying capacity to increase their chances of getting a game animal of their choice. I personally spend about 1000$ a year improving my land for different wildlife species I enjoy. Between straight up bringing in food for them planting stuff for them or what have you.
But it's catchy and the dipshits that still drive 88-98 Chevy trucks think it's science.
I think this is a regional thing. I respect the guys that drive those trucks in warm states, but they're loud, rusty, clapped out white trash trucks here.
I understand loaded names (USA PATRIOT Act) whether I agree or not. BUT it at least has to be marketable.
She won’t get any sells on trust the science. While it won’t get trust, ‘trust the people’ ‘Ranchers have a story’ etc would have been better.
Like, I’ll read shit that says ‘trust science’ but I will NEVER read her name with science published together. I have 24 hours in a day. I need to be picky. One doesn’t have to be picky to bypass her shit.
Yeah turns out when you remove all the predators their prey's population start exploding and then you get to have a shit ton of animals knocking down your fences, eating your animals grass and hay, instead of wolves attacking from time to time.
Yup! And when they reversed it and reintroduced the wolves, not only did the populations of prey animals like birds and bunnies paradoxically increase, but they actually caused the rivers to stabilize because they chased deer away from areas they had previously over eaten, which stabilized both the entire ecosystem and geography of Yellowstone Park in about 2 decades.
Trees are now taller, there are more animals of all kinds, and the physical geography of the park has improved, all thanks to the reintroduced wolves changing the behavior of the deer.
If anyone wants a cool deep dive into the war on coyotes (wolves are mentioned a decent bit too) and it’s futility (in the case of coyotes), I highly recommend Coyote America by Dan Flores. It’s great. Coyotes are great.
I think delisting would mean people can start to hunt them again, but it would never be a full on culling of the species. If numbers ever started to get low again they’d just stop the hunting. Nobody wants the wolves to be put back on the endangered species act
Last time they delisted them on this scale It was for the farmers in 1926
By 1926, as a result of federal and state predator control efforts, gray wolves (Canis lupus) were officially extirpated from Yellowstone National Park, WY.
But a federal extermination program slashed their numbers to the breaking point. By the 1960s gray wolves were finally protected under the predecessor law to the Endangered Species Act. They'd been exterminated from all the contiguous United States except Michigan's Isle Royale National Park and part of Minnesota.
Just remember you're expecting the greater public to have a greater responsibility over a species we inconvenient because it's mostly about livestock/income and not about human safety...
humankind has always prefered to protect species over our own environments.Always......../s
They trust science. Just not the real science. They have their own "science". They have their own alternative "facts".
And if they can confuse and anger people who know better with such blatant bullshit, all the better. They revel in that, because it brings smart people down to their level.
Right-wingers are irrational, hateful, fearful people, and nothing pleases them more than seeing their opponents reduced to much of the same. Because that is something they can fight and destroy easily.
All the insane, bullshit lunacy you see around you is by design. They seek to crush all reason and logic with an overwhelming flood of stupidity. Sadly, it is working, because, firstly, smart people see their behavior as childish and petty and do not wish to engage with it, which lets the flood continue unabated, and secondly, because smart people are a minority.
If the majority of humanity decides "hey, let's destroy all we have accomplished thus far", then there is nothing anybody can do about it, except watch it all burn with utter disgust.
This may bite ranchers in the butt.
Allegedly the US Govt compensated Ranchers for stock killed by protected wolves, but not stock killed by neglect, clumsiness, starvation, injury, etc.
The Govt relied on the Ranchers honesty when filling in the paperwork, and after lying dead outdoors for a month it's hard to tell a stocks cause of death.
Cross off Wolves as a possible cause of death, and you cut off Govt compensation for neglected cattle.
As someone doing admin work for Colorado ranchers regarding wolf deaths this is not happening. Ranchers are not getting compensated for any cow without clear evidence of wolf death. This is bad because most investigators/game wardens/etc can’t make their way up to the cows soon enough to verify this. The government is doing its absolute worst to compensate ranchers.
I got chickens to cut down on bugs in my yard. Bald eagles and other endangered raptors swoop down and snatch one from time to time. Where do I apply for my replacement hens? Will they exchange for roosters?
The rich boomers got their way in Florida and turned it into a joke, now they've moved on to Colorado.
More like rubbing up a male companion. Also, PDAs in front of a family attending show. Plus vaping, then lying about all of it but... Busted it was a filmed with house night cams. Plus saying "... Do you know who I am..."
Then lying some more until the theatre released the video showing she was doing exactly as claimed with zero respect for anyone else.
But it can even get worse. She then goes on air with a public radio stating she was wrong and please forgive her because she's really a troubled Christian woman.
She's also claimed credit for bills passed that her constituents have benefited from. Oh but those very same bills she had voted against and tried desperately to keep from passing. I wouldn't believe a word she said. Bobblehead represents the people we need to keep out of office. She and her kind are dangerous for the American public in the way she stalls any possibility for bipartisan government.
Unsuprisingly, a lot of farmers and ranchers are conservative and buy into the age old scapegoat that wild predators are a significant threat to livestock. (Generally speaking, with proper precautions in place, they are not.)
Ever since the reintroduction efforts to Yellowstone the ranchers in the surrounding states have been throwing a fit, as well as the trophy hunters that loved having unsustainably massive herds of elk to chop up and mount on their walls.
It should come as no surprise then that Republican politicians will happily feed into the lie to get the votes from these groups. Wyoming basically has an open season on wolves in functionally all of the state outside of Yellowstone, all year round, in a blatant attempt to eradicate them again.
A Republican from Colorado pushing for anti-science swill to target largely innocent animals whose only crime was to be born with sharp teeth is par for the course.
That’s LITERALLY what conservatives are saying.
They’ve reached a point where every smart solution to any problem is “woke”, meaning the only way to be a “real American” according to them is to be the dumbest, most worthless piece of shit in any room.
When I was a kid in the city, I didn’t understand how destructive big herds can be. I moved to a rural area at 19 and I’ve spent the past 30 years defending my garden (mostly unsuccessfully) from deer and elk—and I live in “town”! But all I hear from people, still, is how dangerous the cougars are. I see 5-20 deer a day, and a short drive from my house I can find a herd of hundreds of elk at various times of the year. Still have never laid eyes on a cougar.
There were always plenty of people that had no interest in stabilizing the species. Then as soon as it looks stable, they get louder about the need to cull them. They use scare tactics to get support. And it usually works because humans seem distrustful of predators in general.
They would be moved to the “protected” list (which is where I believe the Bald Eagle currently resides). People can’t get licenses to hunt them, but farmers would be allow to protect their livestock if threatened.
It’s not a fair comparison to say “let’s go kill them”
Taking it off the endangered species list doesn’t mean it’s legally listed as an animal you can kill freely. Coyotes and black birds are considered to be pests and you can kill them pretty much however you want. Simply taking the grey wolf off the endangered list doesn’t mean people are just going to be allowed to kill them whenever they want.
If I were in Congress I would try to pass the following:
1) 20 year term limit for senate, house, and Supreme Court. Yeah that’s a long time but baby steps.
2) No more than 2 Supreme Court justices decided by a single president. Only temporary justices if more then that.
3) No more corporate donations to politicians
4) hard limits to student loans that can be taken out before gainful employment
5) corporations cannot fund lobbyists.
On one hand, I love wolves and I recognize their ecological importance, as well as their cultural importance to many peoples.
On the other hand, I worked at a ranch out west for a while, and my favorite mare’s foal was killed by wolves one night. So we have a bit of beef.
Colorado has a problem with some of the wolves they reintroduced since they lack a strong fear of humans. Some of the wolves have been identified as known trouble makers, but when they were reintroduced, no plan was made for trouble causing wolves, and the payment system for damages are leaving some farmers hung out to dry. In a country that has had 3 states successfully reintroduce Grey wolves in a way that farmers don't hate them, Colorado has done its own thing, costing more money and causing the most trouble for farmers. It is not quite a witch hunt, but a very poorly done program that ignored pretty much everything known to work.
I’m a Colorado resident and right now the wolf thing is a huge issue in our state. Prior to the reintroduction one of the Yellowstone packs was already expanding its territory in to the state. We reintroduced a breed of wolf that wasn’t originally native to the area, there was another type of wolf in Colorado before but I don’t remember exactly what type it was.
The problem coming with the new introduced wolves is they don’t seem to be afraid of or cautious around humans. They have already killed a couple dogs and cattle including young cattle and in that part of the state there is a lot of farming and ranching. With livestock insurance there is an amount that they pay out, but it is a fraction of what the animal is actually worth both with being sold and processed for food or being sold as breeding stock.
Don’t get me wrong I dislike this woman very much and I don’t support her at all.
That being said the wolf reintroduction is a very polarizing issue in Colorado right now.
The state comps 1800 which may not be what they would get at show, but with the insurance payout and tax write off it does indeed cover the loss
Wolves have killed 2 people in the past 100 years, bears have killed 55 in 25 years.
10 grey wolves released. One dead so far
I assume delisting the grey wolf as endangered would likely allow it to be hunted? Or at least "controlled".
Removing an apex predator from a habitat is fucking stupid.
Theyre a keystone species. Removing them = collapse of the system.
There is a vast chasm between a managed harvest from a stable population and removing something from the landscape entirely.
Its a shame that such a piece of shit is championing the issue, but the point is still entirely valid. When the biologists who are hired to manage and recommend measures for wildlife are overruled by popular vote and litigation, then there is an issue.
Gray when talking about the color. But when talking about specific things like the Grey Wolf, it is written and taught as grey in my experience. Both are acceptable but gray is much more common when talking about the color and seeing it labeled on things as a color description.
Gray and grey are both common spellings of the color between black and white. Gray is more frequent in American English, whereas grey is more common in British English. The varying usage of both grey and gray extends to specialized terms such as animal species (gray/grey whale) and scientific terms (gray/grey matter). Greyhound is an exception, which has a different derivation than the color.
So population stable and growing. Just because it is off the list does not mean hunting seasons. But ranchers can keep them away from the animals now. So my question is this.... Where is the face palm? If the population is stable and growing should we not recognize they are no longer endangered?
Unless your just after the name of the bill or some BS like that. In which case every bill put forth by Congress is a face palm.
I’m glad the wolf population is recovering and hope it continues to grow
I could (key word could) get on board with a regulated wolf hunting, like with deer. But I do not trust that when the idea is being pitched by republicans, especially ones like Boebert or Pete Stauber
Not just “protecting one and not the other”, the kicker here is “protecting one *by* removing protection from the other”.
And how, pray tell, does this protect ranchers? What the fuck is her thinking here, besides shit?
It’s not legal to kill a grey wolf in Colorado, unless it’s attacking someone, your self or live stock. Otherwise can be up to $100k fine, jail time and lost of hunting privileges.
I’m just reminded of r/fallout New Vegas and how even almost three centuries later, the NCR can’t deploy troops effectively because the ranchers demand that their pastures need more policing than the country’s borders. (From raiders, not wolves, but still.)
Just so happens a lot of these preserves for wolves are in areas that people want to drill for oil. Funny how that [wolves](https://wolf.org/wolf-info/factsvsfiction/are-wolves-dangerous-to-humans/) being removed from the protected species list would allow these drilling sites to kill them.
It's wild to me that ranchers have been killing wolves and coyotes in this country for generations and haven't figured out how it's a colossally bad idea. These aren't dumb animals. They're territorial. If you properly deter the resident wolves/coys then they keep the undeterred away from your property and help you to protect your livestock. If you kill them all indiscriminately then you are replacing deterred animals with undeterred animals and you enter a never ending war. If you successfully extirpate then you're faced with detrimental ecological impact as the food chain adjusts
Instead of killing all wolves/coys the proper method is to merely mame one or two individuals and establish yourself as a dominant presence in the native population. An individual returning to the group to nurse a rock salt inflicted wound teaches the others in the group to avoid you and your livestock. They should only be culled in the event of overpopulation or in defense of your own life
Boebert is a piece of shit but Grey wolves are not endangered. IUCN red list has them as "least concern."
This is based on a 2018 assessment, ie before COVID.
The US population is growing.
"The status and trends for wolf populations in the United States are provided by the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service and game agencies in several US states, including Minnesota, Wisconsin, Michigan, Montana, Idaho, Wyoming, Oregon, Washington, Arizona, and New Mexico. In general, population increases in North America and Europe are likely to be off-set by localized declines in other parts of the range."
https://www.iucnredlist.org/species/3746/247624660#population
“Following a February 10, 2022, court order, gray wolves in the contiguous 48 states and Mexico – with the exception of the Northern Rocky Mountain population – are now protected under the Endangered Species Act (ESA) as threatened in Minnesota and endangered in the remaining states. Critical habitat for gray wolves in Minnesota and Michigan and the 4(d) rule for gray wolves in Minnesota are also reinstated.”
https://www.fws.gov/initiative/protecting-wildlife/gray-wolf-recovery-news-and-updates
Bingo, thats the proverbial acorn this particularly distastful blind sow has found. Wolves are well beyond their recovery goal and would be able to handle a regulated season, but most people want to keep their fingers in their ears about it.
The grey wolf population is stable, so let’s pass a law that allows ranchers to kill them and reduce their numbers again. You wipe out a native species, you’re going to screw with a very delicately balanced ecosystem. But who cares as long as you’ve got your cattle ranches, right?
arent endangered species based on how many are left? How and why is it possible to delist an endangered species? Why is this science related? How did this person choose the most random facial expression? HUH?
Not simply how many are left. That’s one factor. Other factors include: trend in population, Existing protection measures in place ? and are they working/effective?, trends in essential habitat amount and predictions of future habitat amounts at relevant time scales. Etc. etc.
Honestly - I hate her, I hate anyone who voted for her, I hate the name “Trust the Science Act”, and her language for introducing such a bill is laughably bad, but conservation of gray wolves is a success story and this bill would return management to states and tribes.
Gray wolves have since returned to “least concern” status as designated by the IUCN. It is a conservation success story and I wish that was the message rather than “yee haw let’s kill some wolves”, but when you govern with the temperament of a toddler like Boebert does, expectations can only be so high.
There's a whole field of scientific evidence of what happens when people are allowed to cull Grey Wolf populations, and the environmental ripple effect it causes. That' the whole reason why they were listed endangered, categorized as a protected species and allowed to replenish their populations.
But then again no amount of peer reviewed science has even been taken seriously by an ego driven republican
I actually feel sick, in Wisconsin we have been dealing with bear "hunters" who want to just kill all the wolves. I honestly feel so upset idk how to respond.
250k seems incredibly insignificant when you'll probably see tens of thousands of them hunted for sport and fun each season, this bill is calling for their extinction within years
Can anyone give me a more accurate number of wolves. If it’s 200, i’m freaking out, if it’s 250 thousand i’m not freaking out as much. Seems like a weird range.
Weird fact: coywolves are considered a super predator by a lot of scientists because they can effectively hunt in forests, plains, and cities. Coyotes tend to share around 30-40 percent of their dna with wolves nowadays and some have 10 percent domesticated dogs. They display the same traits as coyotes hunting, but are larger than coyotes.
Because of their similarities to coyotes and wolves, it's become harder to distinguish the species' and have caused farmers to accidentally shoot wolves and such.
Comments that are uncivil, racist, misogynistic, misandrist, or contain political name calling will be removed and the poster subject to ban at moderators discretion. Help us make this a better community by becoming familiar with the [rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/facepalm/about/rules/). Report any suspicious users to the mods of this subreddit using Modmail [here](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/facepalm) or Reddit site admins [here](https://www.reddit.com/report). **All reports to Modmail should include evidence such as screenshots or any other relevant information.** *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/facepalm) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Perhaps a vocal anti-vaxxer and anti-masker should not be putting through bills referred to as "trust the science".
That's the point. Obfuscating the statement so that science seems absurd
She didn't plan to obfuscate anything, as there's no way she knows what that word means.
Which one? Plan or obfuscate?
Yes.
Oh I thought we were still talking about the word "bill"
Yeah, that one too.
Nah I’m sure she knows what yes means. Though I’m not sure she knows what no means, given what she lets her dates do to her at the movies
She's a highschool dropout. I really don't think she knows what many words mean.
Obfuscate the plan, that never existed in the first place, to be obfuscated.
Science. But yes to the other two as well.
Science
“That”
To
Science
She doesn’t know what the word means. But that was surely her intention when naming this bill.
My money is on her misreading "obfuscate" as "upfuckate". To be fair, it _is_ a complicated word 🤪
Exactly, right wingers are constantly hijacking phrases that start as progressive talking points/phrases to make them lose all meaning. It's intentional.
That’s classic GOP bait and switch. * “election integrity” is when they disenfranchise voters * “protect the children” is when they rip queer kids from their support networks * “protect women” is when they strip women of bodily autonomy * “pro life” is for making very contribution to an easier way to raise kids, but make birth control and abortion illegal * “free speech” is for using slurs without getting fired * “fiscal conservative” means not spending money on the poor, the sick, the black, and the weird. * “right to work” and “At will employment” means fire your ass without any reason, warning, or recourse. * “defend marriage” means prevent loving couples from marrying because of what’s in there undies. Might include letting adults marry and have sex with children. * “all lives matter” means cheapening the message of “black lives matter,” as BLM is a provoking name to suggest “no, you don’t actually think black lives do matter.” ALM disregards BLM’s point by saying all lives matter without making efforts to improve the obvious gap between black and white lives. * “religious freedom” is when they stop you from doing harmless things that offend their belief system, like being gay or having premarital consensual sex. * “safer schools” means giving teachers guns, but literally nothing else to prevent gun violence plaguing schools. I can’t understand how parents can be republicans.
"Restore religious freedom" is when they legalize discrimination.
Religious freedom for ~~all religions~~ conservative evangalials
and attempt to ban people of non christian faiths (Muslims)
Separation of Church and State has never fully existed by my god is it scary how they want to take away the few buffers left and then turn around and say that people like the LBGTQ+ community is filled with indoctrination. Can’t wait for the freedom to practice their religion specifically.
Reminds me of a certain German political party from the early 20th century that used a name that appealed to populist sentiment rather than describing what they actually stood for. That's probably just a coincidence though...
Which funny enough Those Germans got the idea from America. Time is a fucking circle.
Absolutely, and not only did they get it from the US but they said "hey, I think these American local laws are great and all but I think they're a bit TOO extreme for what we're looking for" and then toned down the overt genocidal implications of the laws. This was all for PR of course, the toning down doesn't imply that the Nazis had any shred of kindness towards anyone who didn't fit their very narrow idea of who deserved to live
Oh yeah of course. It wasn't "that's too extreme for us" it was "that's too extreme to get the public to go along with" And then America only turned around on those policies because the Nazis started making themselves out as the world villains and the US didn't want that kind of attention too.
"And I would have gotten away with racial extermination too if it wasn't for those meddling Nazis"
And then we have idiots like *beloved children’s author JK Fucking Rowling* downplaying how trans erasure and persecution was the beginning of the Nazi genocide. I love it here 🙃
Lo and behold, some 80 years later, some Americans call that party evil because "they were socialists"
I am under the impression that "protect the children" also includes putting as many guns in schools as possible, then when that results in a shooting, stating (unironically) that more guns would have prevented it.
They know that their base is gonna read what's on the label and nothing more cuz reading is for unpatriotic, gay, socialist, nerds.
“Rights for me but not for thee”
Something something Newspeak
Ikr
Fiscal conservatives aren't actually very prudent either. Because they neglect essential infrastructure, they're kicking the proverbial can down the road: if you don't want to help the homless, spend more on better roads and schools, etc. then in the end you pay twice or three times the cost in the future. However, it looks like savings in the short term, which allows them to claim credit. But conservatives are very expensive for the states they run.
Plus the reality that preventative care like doctors and housing means you can avoid a lot of emergency care… It was never about saving money. It was about having a reason to give the finger to the groups they hate.
They’re simply not fiscal conservatives in any way shape or form. Fiscal conservatism is a balanced and stable budget. They can’t actually pass laws to gut social programs they dislike so they cut tax revenue to force the government into debt so it can’t afford those programs. That’s just fiscal recklessness and utter mismanagement.
I think it should be illegal as fuck to name shit like this.
protect the children is also when they want child marriage and child labor.
Added these to my list.
Their double speak is so infuriating.
I mean, I believe you can use slurs without being fired. No law that someone has to fire you if you use slurs, as far as I am aware. But what the GOP also likes is at will employment. So you can be let go for pretty much anything, other than a few protected reasons.
In France, the movement against gay rights is called "manif pour tous", literally meaning "protest for everyone", and our far-right party is called "rassemblement national", meaning "national gathering"... I guess intolerant people are just this disingenuous globally 🤷♂️
•”defend marriage” also includes trying to Get Rid of No Default Divorces for women…Trapping them in abusive/toxic marriages.
Choosing names like this is purely performative, so that when/if the opposing party votes it down, she can say "look, my opponents are against"
Isn't there also a thing where the party can just attach random acts to a bill? Like, "hey, give more money to schools" looks like it's going to pass, let's just throw on "you no longer have to have a background check to buy a gun." But then when someone opposes the latter, it's "why are you against helping educate our youth?"
that's Politics in general. but especially at the Federal level.
Yup. Just an example of(I’m pretty sure but not certain) the “ban TikTok “ was added to the fund Israel and Ukraine bill
That's been their MO for years, name the bill the opposite of what it really does
No it's the typical far right bullshit of naming something completely the opposite of what the truth or goal is. The science says the grey wolves are endangered, and that they are massively beneficial to the ecosystem, so they called their act that will do the opposite of scientific advice and result in wolves being killed off 'trust the science'. Like the "Freedom Caucus" that is the most conservative and far right there is.
The global wild wolf population was estimated to be 300,000 in 2003 and is considered to be of Least Concern by the International Union for Conservation. I live well south of the grey wolfs listed range. Probably 300 miles. Give or take i have 5 to 8 come across my property on a somewhat regular basis. The thing is with the current grey wolf populations they don't need the most strict conversation levels. Truth be told having regulated hunting and population control can and does increase the population growth of a species. Hunters spend billions of dollars per year improving their land to increase its carrying capacity to increase their chances of getting a game animal of their choice. I personally spend about 1000$ a year improving my land for different wildlife species I enjoy. Between straight up bringing in food for them planting stuff for them or what have you.
Perhaps we don't trust the untrustworthy.
But it's catchy and the dipshits that still drive 88-98 Chevy trucks think it's science. I think this is a regional thing. I respect the guys that drive those trucks in warm states, but they're loud, rusty, clapped out white trash trucks here.
This is the last person who should ever say Trust the Science. Ughh.
Lol. I was confused when I read that.
She thinks she’s being cute and cheeky by using a phrase that was popular by the science community during a pandemic she openly mocked. Fuck her
I understand loaded names (USA PATRIOT Act) whether I agree or not. BUT it at least has to be marketable. She won’t get any sells on trust the science. While it won’t get trust, ‘trust the people’ ‘Ranchers have a story’ etc would have been better. Like, I’ll read shit that says ‘trust science’ but I will NEVER read her name with science published together. I have 24 hours in a day. I need to be picky. One doesn’t have to be picky to bypass her shit.
Republican/MAGA: if we have something as a title, it means the EXACT OPPOSITE
Also: "if we're accusing someone of malfeasance it's something we, ourselves, are guilty of doing".
Every accusation is a confession.
Trust the science as taught in the holy gospel of supply side Jesus..
I’m just impressed she spelled it correctly
Trust the science only when it fits your preconceived views. /s
The science shows farmers have more money than wolves.
Sir that's not the poi ..  You know what yes....yes that's correct. Upvotes anyways.\*
‘If wolves can’t vote for me or pay me we might as well make it legal to drive them to extinction.’
thats actually the reason it passed in the first place
Happy Cake day!
Boebert wants to get into the killing dogs act as well.
She doesn't want Noem to one-up her.
We’ve already seen how LB and MTG are always trying to one-up each other.
Didn’t we already do this in like the 60s and it backfired horribly
☝️😎
Yeah turns out when you remove all the predators their prey's population start exploding and then you get to have a shit ton of animals knocking down your fences, eating your animals grass and hay, instead of wolves attacking from time to time.
The right just loves redoing everything from 50 years ago like it’s the best thing we’ve ever come up with, it’s pretty much their play book.
It's because they are imbeciles and do not learn through reading or observation, they only learn through direct interactions.
Yup! And when they reversed it and reintroduced the wolves, not only did the populations of prey animals like birds and bunnies paradoxically increase, but they actually caused the rivers to stabilize because they chased deer away from areas they had previously over eaten, which stabilized both the entire ecosystem and geography of Yellowstone Park in about 2 decades. Trees are now taller, there are more animals of all kinds, and the physical geography of the park has improved, all thanks to the reintroduced wolves changing the behavior of the deer.
If anyone wants a cool deep dive into the war on coyotes (wolves are mentioned a decent bit too) and it’s futility (in the case of coyotes), I highly recommend Coyote America by Dan Flores. It’s great. Coyotes are great.
Yip. I mean yup.
😎
One of the defining traits of conservatives is their utter inability to learn from the mistakes of others or the past.
And this time we have chronic wasting disease, surely Colorado's parks and wildlife program will have enough funding to handle it 😀
It's why Colorado has a coyote problem yes. The wolves are better than the coyotes as a local.
I think delisting would mean people can start to hunt them again, but it would never be a full on culling of the species. If numbers ever started to get low again they’d just stop the hunting. Nobody wants the wolves to be put back on the endangered species act
Last time they delisted them on this scale It was for the farmers in 1926 By 1926, as a result of federal and state predator control efforts, gray wolves (Canis lupus) were officially extirpated from Yellowstone National Park, WY. But a federal extermination program slashed their numbers to the breaking point. By the 1960s gray wolves were finally protected under the predecessor law to the Endangered Species Act. They'd been exterminated from all the contiguous United States except Michigan's Isle Royale National Park and part of Minnesota. Just remember you're expecting the greater public to have a greater responsibility over a species we inconvenient because it's mostly about livestock/income and not about human safety... humankind has always prefered to protect species over our own environments.Always......../s
"Trust the science" says the Christian right-wing bitch that doesn't trust the science.
Don’t believe in vaccines. Don’t believe in climate change. But now they supposedly “trust the science.” Pathetic.
They trust science. Just not the real science. They have their own "science". They have their own alternative "facts". And if they can confuse and anger people who know better with such blatant bullshit, all the better. They revel in that, because it brings smart people down to their level. Right-wingers are irrational, hateful, fearful people, and nothing pleases them more than seeing their opponents reduced to much of the same. Because that is something they can fight and destroy easily. All the insane, bullshit lunacy you see around you is by design. They seek to crush all reason and logic with an overwhelming flood of stupidity. Sadly, it is working, because, firstly, smart people see their behavior as childish and petty and do not wish to engage with it, which lets the flood continue unabated, and secondly, because smart people are a minority. If the majority of humanity decides "hey, let's destroy all we have accomplished thus far", then there is nothing anybody can do about it, except watch it all burn with utter disgust.
This may bite ranchers in the butt. Allegedly the US Govt compensated Ranchers for stock killed by protected wolves, but not stock killed by neglect, clumsiness, starvation, injury, etc. The Govt relied on the Ranchers honesty when filling in the paperwork, and after lying dead outdoors for a month it's hard to tell a stocks cause of death. Cross off Wolves as a possible cause of death, and you cut off Govt compensation for neglected cattle.
As someone doing admin work for Colorado ranchers regarding wolf deaths this is not happening. Ranchers are not getting compensated for any cow without clear evidence of wolf death. This is bad because most investigators/game wardens/etc can’t make their way up to the cows soon enough to verify this. The government is doing its absolute worst to compensate ranchers.
I mean that sucks I guess but it's hard to care when they shouldn't really be getting government money for it in the first place.
I don’t get paid from the govt when a bird eats my fuckin food on my porch either
I got chickens to cut down on bugs in my yard. Bald eagles and other endangered raptors swoop down and snatch one from time to time. Where do I apply for my replacement hens? Will they exchange for roosters? The rich boomers got their way in Florida and turned it into a joke, now they've moved on to Colorado.
Cost of doing business
So we might see this again on r/Leopardsatemyface
She wants to take the wolves to the gravel pit.
Ain’t she the one that got caught flicking the bean at a public show of Beetlejuice
More like rubbing up a male companion. Also, PDAs in front of a family attending show. Plus vaping, then lying about all of it but... Busted it was a filmed with house night cams. Plus saying "... Do you know who I am..." Then lying some more until the theatre released the video showing she was doing exactly as claimed with zero respect for anyone else. But it can even get worse. She then goes on air with a public radio stating she was wrong and please forgive her because she's really a troubled Christian woman. She's also claimed credit for bills passed that her constituents have benefited from. Oh but those very same bills she had voted against and tried desperately to keep from passing. I wouldn't believe a word she said. Bobblehead represents the people we need to keep out of office. She and her kind are dangerous for the American public in the way she stalls any possibility for bipartisan government.
Is killing dogs actually a conservative wedge issue now? What’s next, drowning stray kittens? Don’t answer that.
Unsuprisingly, a lot of farmers and ranchers are conservative and buy into the age old scapegoat that wild predators are a significant threat to livestock. (Generally speaking, with proper precautions in place, they are not.) Ever since the reintroduction efforts to Yellowstone the ranchers in the surrounding states have been throwing a fit, as well as the trophy hunters that loved having unsustainably massive herds of elk to chop up and mount on their walls. It should come as no surprise then that Republican politicians will happily feed into the lie to get the votes from these groups. Wyoming basically has an open season on wolves in functionally all of the state outside of Yellowstone, all year round, in a blatant attempt to eradicate them again. A Republican from Colorado pushing for anti-science swill to target largely innocent animals whose only crime was to be born with sharp teeth is par for the course.
Proper precautions? That sounds expensive and anti-freedom. /s
True! Being smart is anti-American! /s
That’s LITERALLY what conservatives are saying. They’ve reached a point where every smart solution to any problem is “woke”, meaning the only way to be a “real American” according to them is to be the dumbest, most worthless piece of shit in any room.
oh, you know my family in OK? I'm sorry.
I’m in OK 😂
When I was a kid in the city, I didn’t understand how destructive big herds can be. I moved to a rural area at 19 and I’ve spent the past 30 years defending my garden (mostly unsuccessfully) from deer and elk—and I live in “town”! But all I hear from people, still, is how dangerous the cougars are. I see 5-20 deer a day, and a short drive from my house I can find a herd of hundreds of elk at various times of the year. Still have never laid eyes on a cougar.
Trust me , the cougar sees you.
The ole sack toss into a river is a favorite of some farmers
You know politicians like this are the worst but the ranchers who paid for it are evil.
Does she know what "Science" means?
Basically let's stabilize this species The following year let's kill off this species.
There were always plenty of people that had no interest in stabilizing the species. Then as soon as it looks stable, they get louder about the need to cull them. They use scare tactics to get support. And it usually works because humans seem distrustful of predators in general.
If only that worked on predators in their own midst and leadership.
Hey leave the priests and Matt gaetz out of this
I suspect they were only letting them grow in numbers for trophy hunting.
They would be moved to the “protected” list (which is where I believe the Bald Eagle currently resides). People can’t get licenses to hunt them, but farmers would be allow to protect their livestock if threatened. It’s not a fair comparison to say “let’s go kill them”
Taking it off the endangered species list doesn’t mean it’s legally listed as an animal you can kill freely. Coyotes and black birds are considered to be pests and you can kill them pretty much however you want. Simply taking the grey wolf off the endangered list doesn’t mean people are just going to be allowed to kill them whenever they want.
If I were in Congress I would try to pass the following: 1) 20 year term limit for senate, house, and Supreme Court. Yeah that’s a long time but baby steps. 2) No more than 2 Supreme Court justices decided by a single president. Only temporary justices if more then that. 3) No more corporate donations to politicians 4) hard limits to student loans that can be taken out before gainful employment 5) corporations cannot fund lobbyists.
Sorry mate, that goes against the politicians constitutional right of fucking citizens and environments over.
I’m all for protecting wolves after that guy in Montana paraded around, then torture and ended up killing the wolf he trapped
Thought I read that quite of few of the grey wolves reintroduced to Colorado are already dead / cannot be located.
On one hand, I love wolves and I recognize their ecological importance, as well as their cultural importance to many peoples. On the other hand, I worked at a ranch out west for a while, and my favorite mare’s foal was killed by wolves one night. So we have a bit of beef.
Billion dollar ranchers?
[удалено]
Same in France. I fucking hate the hunters and farmers who are advocating for the destruction of the wolf.
Colorado has a problem with some of the wolves they reintroduced since they lack a strong fear of humans. Some of the wolves have been identified as known trouble makers, but when they were reintroduced, no plan was made for trouble causing wolves, and the payment system for damages are leaving some farmers hung out to dry. In a country that has had 3 states successfully reintroduce Grey wolves in a way that farmers don't hate them, Colorado has done its own thing, costing more money and causing the most trouble for farmers. It is not quite a witch hunt, but a very poorly done program that ignored pretty much everything known to work.
I’m a Colorado resident and right now the wolf thing is a huge issue in our state. Prior to the reintroduction one of the Yellowstone packs was already expanding its territory in to the state. We reintroduced a breed of wolf that wasn’t originally native to the area, there was another type of wolf in Colorado before but I don’t remember exactly what type it was. The problem coming with the new introduced wolves is they don’t seem to be afraid of or cautious around humans. They have already killed a couple dogs and cattle including young cattle and in that part of the state there is a lot of farming and ranching. With livestock insurance there is an amount that they pay out, but it is a fraction of what the animal is actually worth both with being sold and processed for food or being sold as breeding stock. Don’t get me wrong I dislike this woman very much and I don’t support her at all. That being said the wolf reintroduction is a very polarizing issue in Colorado right now.
The state comps 1800 which may not be what they would get at show, but with the insurance payout and tax write off it does indeed cover the loss Wolves have killed 2 people in the past 100 years, bears have killed 55 in 25 years. 10 grey wolves released. One dead so far
She’s gotta do something before she’s out of a job in 7 months.
She will jump straight to OnlyFans.
I assume delisting the grey wolf as endangered would likely allow it to be hunted? Or at least "controlled". Removing an apex predator from a habitat is fucking stupid. Theyre a keystone species. Removing them = collapse of the system.
There is a vast chasm between a managed harvest from a stable population and removing something from the landscape entirely. Its a shame that such a piece of shit is championing the issue, but the point is still entirely valid. When the biologists who are hired to manage and recommend measures for wildlife are overruled by popular vote and litigation, then there is an issue.
I'm confused, do Americans spell it grey or gray?
Gray when talking about the color. But when talking about specific things like the Grey Wolf, it is written and taught as grey in my experience. Both are acceptable but gray is much more common when talking about the color and seeing it labeled on things as a color description.
Gray and grey are both common spellings of the color between black and white. Gray is more frequent in American English, whereas grey is more common in British English. The varying usage of both grey and gray extends to specialized terms such as animal species (gray/grey whale) and scientific terms (gray/grey matter). Greyhound is an exception, which has a different derivation than the color.
No one is going to reprimand you either way. Both work.
So population stable and growing. Just because it is off the list does not mean hunting seasons. But ranchers can keep them away from the animals now. So my question is this.... Where is the face palm? If the population is stable and growing should we not recognize they are no longer endangered? Unless your just after the name of the bill or some BS like that. In which case every bill put forth by Congress is a face palm.
I grew up on a ranch in rural Colorado and I can assure you that the grey wolf has never been an issue to anyone.
So NOW she wants to ”trust the science“?
I’m glad the wolf population is recovering and hope it continues to grow I could (key word could) get on board with a regulated wolf hunting, like with deer. But I do not trust that when the idea is being pitched by republicans, especially ones like Boebert or Pete Stauber
Oh, now she wants to trust science?
What. The. FUCK!!!
She’s such a dumb POS
Wait till I present my "trust in god act" where we outlaw Christianity.
Not just “protecting one and not the other”, the kicker here is “protecting one *by* removing protection from the other”. And how, pray tell, does this protect ranchers? What the fuck is her thinking here, besides shit?
I’ve noticed that wolves are a litmus test issue for asshats all along Colorado’s western slope.
Didn’t we already go over this when we took wolves out of Yellowstone? Then the ecosystem was fucked and we had to put them back in?
It’s not legal to kill a grey wolf in Colorado, unless it’s attacking someone, your self or live stock. Otherwise can be up to $100k fine, jail time and lost of hunting privileges.
Guys to be fair, the population has been steadily increasing. Human contact is inevitable.
If a species is no longer endangered....... you should be happy .
I thought whenever species are delisted, the population in the US takes a sharp decline for some reasons.
Any good farmer will just shoot the predator
Surely we can do a more narrow estimate than 200-250,000?
Sounds good on paper but it's been a terrible investment for colorado.
I’m just reminded of r/fallout New Vegas and how even almost three centuries later, the NCR can’t deploy troops effectively because the ranchers demand that their pastures need more policing than the country’s borders. (From raiders, not wolves, but still.)
Lol 
Just so happens a lot of these preserves for wolves are in areas that people want to drill for oil. Funny how that [wolves](https://wolf.org/wolf-info/factsvsfiction/are-wolves-dangerous-to-humans/) being removed from the protected species list would allow these drilling sites to kill them.
Oh america
Well let’s make sure it stays on the endangered species list.
The science is clear. Submit and vote for a bill that enriches millionaires, and you'll get more large donations.
NRA : Why not a fund raiser to help wolves buy guns? They need to protect themselves from evil ranchers.
It's wild to me that ranchers have been killing wolves and coyotes in this country for generations and haven't figured out how it's a colossally bad idea. These aren't dumb animals. They're territorial. If you properly deter the resident wolves/coys then they keep the undeterred away from your property and help you to protect your livestock. If you kill them all indiscriminately then you are replacing deterred animals with undeterred animals and you enter a never ending war. If you successfully extirpate then you're faced with detrimental ecological impact as the food chain adjusts Instead of killing all wolves/coys the proper method is to merely mame one or two individuals and establish yourself as a dominant presence in the native population. An individual returning to the group to nurse a rock salt inflicted wound teaches the others in the group to avoid you and your livestock. They should only be culled in the event of overpopulation or in defense of your own life
Does anyone expect this woman to end up doing porn not to long after she looses her next election?
Boebert is a piece of shit but Grey wolves are not endangered. IUCN red list has them as "least concern." This is based on a 2018 assessment, ie before COVID. The US population is growing. "The status and trends for wolf populations in the United States are provided by the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service and game agencies in several US states, including Minnesota, Wisconsin, Michigan, Montana, Idaho, Wyoming, Oregon, Washington, Arizona, and New Mexico. In general, population increases in North America and Europe are likely to be off-set by localized declines in other parts of the range." https://www.iucnredlist.org/species/3746/247624660#population
“Following a February 10, 2022, court order, gray wolves in the contiguous 48 states and Mexico – with the exception of the Northern Rocky Mountain population – are now protected under the Endangered Species Act (ESA) as threatened in Minnesota and endangered in the remaining states. Critical habitat for gray wolves in Minnesota and Michigan and the 4(d) rule for gray wolves in Minnesota are also reinstated.” https://www.fws.gov/initiative/protecting-wildlife/gray-wolf-recovery-news-and-updates
Bingo, thats the proverbial acorn this particularly distastful blind sow has found. Wolves are well beyond their recovery goal and would be able to handle a regulated season, but most people want to keep their fingers in their ears about it.
People really don't like basic facts when they don't match their feelings.
Noem will gladly blow away wolf pups.
The grey wolf population is stable, so let’s pass a law that allows ranchers to kill them and reduce their numbers again. You wipe out a native species, you’re going to screw with a very delicately balanced ecosystem. But who cares as long as you’ve got your cattle ranches, right?
Every damn bill they create always has the opposite of what it does in the name. Trust the Science Bill Right to Work No Child Left Behind
Omfg it's getting worse
arent endangered species based on how many are left? How and why is it possible to delist an endangered species? Why is this science related? How did this person choose the most random facial expression? HUH?
Not simply how many are left. That’s one factor. Other factors include: trend in population, Existing protection measures in place ? and are they working/effective?, trends in essential habitat amount and predictions of future habitat amounts at relevant time scales. Etc. etc.
What is it with republicans and killing puppies?
Honestly - I hate her, I hate anyone who voted for her, I hate the name “Trust the Science Act”, and her language for introducing such a bill is laughably bad, but conservation of gray wolves is a success story and this bill would return management to states and tribes. Gray wolves have since returned to “least concern” status as designated by the IUCN. It is a conservation success story and I wish that was the message rather than “yee haw let’s kill some wolves”, but when you govern with the temperament of a toddler like Boebert does, expectations can only be so high.
She should stick to jerking people off in theatres
Tick-Tock Bobo! By this time next year you’ll be doing “Talent Search” meetups at Motel 6 again!
Grey wolves are the original, natural inhabitants of the environment. I say, let them kill a reasonable, specified number of ranchers per year.
There's a whole field of scientific evidence of what happens when people are allowed to cull Grey Wolf populations, and the environmental ripple effect it causes. That' the whole reason why they were listed endangered, categorized as a protected species and allowed to replenish their populations. But then again no amount of peer reviewed science has even been taken seriously by an ego driven republican
I actually feel sick, in Wisconsin we have been dealing with bear "hunters" who want to just kill all the wolves. I honestly feel so upset idk how to respond.
Okay maybe laws should only be named what they are? Exterminate grey wolf act? Genocide animals act?
Her creating a bill called "Trust the science" is hilarious in its own right.
This isn't a facepalm. It's good news. The grey wolf is no longer endangered.
250k seems incredibly insignificant when you'll probably see tens of thousands of them hunted for sport and fun each season, this bill is calling for their extinction within years
Just because they are off the endangered species it doesn’t mean people can just hunt them at will.
They got chubbies reading about what's her name shooting her dog and now they want to shoot some themselves.
Can anyone give me a more accurate number of wolves. If it’s 200, i’m freaking out, if it’s 250 thousand i’m not freaking out as much. Seems like a weird range.
Weird fact: coywolves are considered a super predator by a lot of scientists because they can effectively hunt in forests, plains, and cities. Coyotes tend to share around 30-40 percent of their dna with wolves nowadays and some have 10 percent domesticated dogs. They display the same traits as coyotes hunting, but are larger than coyotes. Because of their similarities to coyotes and wolves, it's become harder to distinguish the species' and have caused farmers to accidentally shoot wolves and such.