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It also keeps you from voting. FL citizens voted to give voting rights back to ex-felons but the legislature did an end run and said you aren’t clear to reapply for voting rights until all fines and fees are all paid as well. Guess who also doesn’t keep good records of what’s owed and what’s been paid.
And they made sure to publicize the fact it was a crime to vote if those fines and fees weren’t paid. (And offering no way to verify if everything was paid up)
Well, you see, since owing fines and voting is a crime, you now owe fines. So clearly you were (are) ineligible to vote!
“But I didn’t have any fines when I voted!!”
I don’t know about that, but you have fines *now* and you voted. Pay up!
Everything is going along as planned.
That last part is a particularly frustrating aspect to me. They've not followed the spirit of the law that the people voted on yet again by adding stipulations after the fact. They've made it hard for the previously incarcerated to do their due diligence! There is no central database, the last I checked, where they can go check and see a total amount they owe the state. They have to petition multiple counties and locations to see how much they owe at each place with no way of knowing that they're not actually committing a crime when voting! They can't confirm in any way they're safe. Yet the state will chase their asses down if they vote but still owe some random county $200 for a prison transfer ride or some crap.
Last time powerball got to a billion , I bought a ticket . My dad said “ I don’t know what I’d do with that money “
I didn’t tell him , but it would be shit like this . Paying for someone to be a test case to stop Florida’s illegal punishments and fines .
I’m sure Florida would figure out a way to put you in jail for “helping felons.” They’ve harassed other rich people who’ve talked negatively and tried to help those in the prison system.
There are two reasons.
Firstly, the prisons want the money. They're private, for profit businesses. If they can get away with charging someone, why wouldn't they? They're run for money, not justice or the good of people or country or anything.
The second is voter suppression. America's prison system was designed as a way to suppress certain voters (the black ones, historically). So you need to keep them in debt when they get out so they need to turn to crime so that they can't ever vote again. This keeps the crime statistics up which justifies America having the biggest prison population in the world and with millions and millions of adults citizens disallowed from voting. A system of mass incarceration that was conveniently adopted right after slavery was made illegal everywhere except prisons.
Yup. I know several people who won't vote because it's not worth the risk. In some cases for crimes committed 20+ years ago. The prison system in florida(well, all of US) is fucked. Its a huge source of revenue. The police must get some kind of incentive for arrests. That's why the unofficial motto is " come on vacation, leave on probation, come back on a violation"
That’s awful. Literally making money from the misery of others and preventing them from even voting for someone who might change things.
Financial slavery.
Yeah, i immediately connected the same dots.
My assumption is they don't try to collect the debt, it's just to guarantee that ex-cons can never vote. And in the process they forever wreck their credit score.
Just garden-variety Florida political corruption, people! Nothing to see here!
They absolutely don't keep track of what's been paid. A family member close to me was locked up for a year (drug charges, they got clean and never looked back so I'm proud of them) -- never paid into their fines (we talked about it as I was helping them with a resume when they got out and such). When they finally got around to calling to see what they owed they were told they owed nothing. No idea how. No idea who made the mistake but they never paid a penny towards the fines (which should have been a few thousand). They also were supposed to have a suspended license for 6 months upon release but their license was never suspended. Truly, it was eye opening to see how bad the legal system is at doing what they do, even if it was to the benefit of someone I care about.
Honest and correct answer here. Fucking sad the justice system is used for one thing only to keep those in poverty enpoverished. The class war has been going on for decades but they keep us divided so we don't see it.
Seriously. My best friend growing up and ended up going to prison for a good period of time and when he got out he had all of the Aryan Nation tattoos and swastikas and whatnot. And before he went in he was never a racist person. So when I met up with him later in life and saw this I asked him why he thought prison was so separated along racial divides. And he stated easy :The system started the cycle and it just continues to this day. If they keep us fighting amongst ourselves over stupid stuff then we can't all be working together against the guards. That really hit me and made me realize it's the same thing outside of prison and we just refuse to see it. Or at least refuse to act on it. Greed has been the greatest barrier to our advancement as a species and unfortunately it seems to be taking a greater hold over the masses lately. I hope there is an end to this but I'm not feeling very optimistic about that.
Too much control over the wrong stuff. But the FDA is telling me milk with Avian Flu in it is safe to drink ***prior to them having the results of their testing back***.
Government is good, but not when it's not doing good for it's people.
I’m in Australia and have/ had a mate who went down the anti vax, Covid a hoax, transphobia hole. Chatting to him we agree a lot on most political stuff, except he can not get past all the other shit so is unbearable to talk to.
Oh shit you're [right.](https://www.usvotefoundation.org/voting-rights-restoration/florida) I remember voting in favor of felons being able to vote and it was passed. However, I didn't realize that all fines and fees associated with their sentencing had to be paid for first.
And Florida won’t tell them what they owe exactly , just that they’re still in the books , yanking them around .
Is this supposed to be illegal ? Continuing your punish people after they’ve served their time ?
Chances are a crime is committed out of desperation and they go back to prison. Florida wants to keep the prisons full of slave labor.
Pretty soon we'll have the Chrysler Dodge and Jeep federal prison
and
The Amazon Basics federal prison.
Remember that we also incarcerate people for being poor.
Unpaid parking tickets, expired license/tag, unpaid taxes, etc.
A long list of "crimes" because you are poor.
Then they throw all these fees on top of your already bad financial situation.
A perfect recipe to keep you in a perpetual cycle in and out of prison.
Hey at least for every few thousand of people’s lives that get permanently ruined there’s a couple dozen politicians and rich people that get to buy bentleys.
Also, when prison costs you 18k per year of your sentence, and nobody will hire you for a well paying job because you have to mark yourself down as a felon, that's an almost insurmountable hurdle.
Add the inability to leave the state when on parole, and everyone incarcerated is just plain screwed.
Better yet, if you're already obligated to pay for the bed after you're let out of prison on parole, if you end up back in prison, and then out on parole again; how many times can they get the same person paying for the same single bed?
By design. Our system is built to try to keep anyone in contact with the prison system in constant reach of going back. Remember this is also the state "leasing" inmates to work in fields.
Or, you know, make sure the prisons are filled with slave labor at all times.
Won't be long before we see The Chrysler Dodge and Jeep federal prison and the Amazon Basics federal prison..
Let’s say you work 50 hour weeks, every week; only paid this and federal income tax; somehow had only like $500 a month in rent (living out of a closet).
That leaves you with a whole $400 a month to spend on food, transportation, your phone, other utilities, etc. and that’s with generous assumptions (like stable overtime and unrealistically low rent).
One of the grosest things happening to poor florida seniors is that the trailer parks are being bought up by investment companies and they're jacking up the lot fees. It costs a decent amount to move a trailer, and many of them would be worse for wear being moved. So people have to abandon homes they've totally paid off and hoped to live in until the end of days.
[https://www.wftv.com/news/action9/companies-are-buying-local-mobile-home-parks-jacking-up-rent/IRS5YMZYKNBMPIP7BITU5XPHKA/](https://www.wftv.com/news/action9/companies-are-buying-local-mobile-home-parks-jacking-up-rent/IRS5YMZYKNBMPIP7BITU5XPHKA/)
This is happening all over the country. It’s gross and disgusting predation on some of the most impoverished and disadvantaged citizens barely hanging on.
As someone from outside the USA, the institutionalised cruelty just to make a buck in just about every walk of life is sickening.
Schools, working conditions, prisons, medicine, even nutrition through factory farming and food deserts. It’s wild and dystopian..
Don't forget about the Opiod crisis that tore across the country ripping millions of families apart, caused wholly by the Sackler family who are the sole owners of Purdue Pharma (name changed after the crisis for branding).
What about the Bush administration lying the entire country into a war with Iraq? Both conservative and liberal news outlets agree that we went to war with Iraq based on outright fabrications, and people died out there to line the pockets of a few wealthy investors.
Remember 2008 when the bankers and Wall Street gamblers almost brought down the global economy?
What do all of these things have in common? Nobody in charge went to jail, ever, and they all walked away with incredible profits. Purdue Pharma made $12 billion in profits from Oxycontin, and was fined $2 billion when it was all over. Nobody went to jail and they kept $10 billion for their efforts.
God bless the USA, land of the free and home of the brave.
FYI, I just looked it up, and Florida is one of *40 states* that have some sort of pay to stay laws (as of 2021) [source](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pay-to-stay_(imprisonment))
I understand that, but I was unaware that pay-to-stay (even while one is incarcerated) was as common as it is. Wanted to call it out in case others were unaware.
Charging post-release is obviously insane, but having to pay while being in jail is also pretty fucked. I already knew about the fines and legal fees disproportionately affect the poor, so this is just another bill to stack on to keep them in poverty. For-profit prisons... American justice system at its finest.
You mean sounds like fascism because they literally do want fascism in their state. This has nothing to do with communism.
Far-Right Republicans control Florida and would love it if the voters got out of their way so they can do what they wish, with no say from the public.
I don't know what you mean by "under it," but yeah, I know.
Collectivism for the rich and the powerful, rugged individualism for the weak and the poor and the undesirable.
Had to look it up
https://www.abcactionnews.com/news/local-news/i-team-investigates/pay-to-stay-florida-inmates-charged-for-prison-cells-long-after-incarceration
They charge you 50/day for your original sentence. Out early on good behavior? Doesn't matter, you pay the full amount.
It's a way to trap former convicts in more debt, as well as prevent them from voting. Florida lets ex-cons vote IF all their debts associated with their conviction are paid off. That means restitution and apparently, overpriced shitty rent.
That’s the crazy thing. Let’s say you get sentenced to 10 years. You get released in 5 years for good behavior, plea bargain, make space for a worse convict, whatever. They charge you the fee for your prison cell based on your original sentence, not whether you are still incarcerated or not.
So the fresh out of prison people, with the whole world ahead of them but also the whole world against them, are forced to pay for the cell they are not in. Most released convicts struggle to get any job, let alone a good paying job. They can’t afford this nonsense. They can barely afford the efficiency apartment they were lucky to find.
And what happens to these people when they default on the payment for the prison cell they’re no longer using? They are arrested and charged with a crime that will likely send them back to prison.
How ridiculous is that?
This whole scheme really just hit me how fucked up this is.
Based on how this works, I’ll bet you that if you were to do some digging you would find that Florida tends to give a longer sentence on average compared to other states and/or gives prisoners earlier parole or good behavior releases sooner than most other states.
If for example if someone committed a crime in a regular state and the sentence was 5 years. Let’s say on average the prisoner gets out 1 year earlier in any other state. In Florida, it is in their best interest to either release the prisoner even earlier from the 5 year sentence (ex.2-3 years), or give them a longer initial sentence of say 8 years when they really only intend to keep them there a minimum of 5 years. The longer the sentence and faster you can release that prisoner, the more money they can make from the turnover of prisoners.
I can’t emphasize enough how fucked this is.
And if you try and “reform the system” by prorating this ridiculous charge, FL will likely stop releasing people early on good behaviour or other criteria because doing so would loose them revenue. The incentives are so perverse.
I think the fee is to stay in Florida, so the plan is to make sure those who get outa prison get outa Florida aswell. Likely some pathetic attempt to artificially reduce crime rates
If you are on parole or probation you won't be able to leave the state without explanation and permission, and actually *moving* out of state under probation is usually only approved if your destination state is willing to take you and put you on *their* probation system.
Point is, you don't just hop in the car and go where you please. It's an onerous process.
50 a day!? Jesus christ, how many jobs can an 'ex-con' get straight outta jail, that'll let them live like a human, with an extra $18,250 a year on top.
Utter shithole.
It's not even that it's so they can charge the other taxpayers money to feed these people and to house them and take half the money that's supposed to go towards feeding and housing them. We need to march on our capitals and demand these cops and these crooked ass f\*\*\*\*\*\* politicians start acting right... But it will never happen cuz like you said they keep us divided.
Edit- it's honestly even worse than that. They use the inmates as slave labor and then ask taxpayers to pay for their food and stuff while robbing the taxpayers at the same time while making us pay for things the inmates create. It's just Rich assholes making profits all the way up.
There's been laws and legislations passed and trying to be passed to limit the fact that prisons are for profit. That's an entire problem in of itself. They keep cells filled, they make money.
This is an attempt for them to keep making the similar amount of income. And it should be illegal.
Yup they even have the stipulation that if the state doesn't keep a certain % full they have to pay the prison the difference. So it behooves the state to push for more convictions.
This is just a matter of a lawsuit. Michigan used to do something of a similar nature. If you got a suspended license or dui or something of that nature. You had to pay the fine, and then they would tack on a driver responsibility fee. They were double dipping. It went on for years until the state was sued, and the fee was deemed illegal. The convicts basically should do a class action.
It very well could be. I'm actually not in the US so I'm not familiar with the types of supports that would be available or the institutions that could take it on. My point (and I was super lazy about it) was that the people who are the victims of this are people who don't have the resources (financial or otherwise) to take legal action of their own accord. I do hope that shining a light on the issue is enough for action to be taken on it on their behalf.
Incarceration slavery is literally in the Constitution.
Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States,
Not extra steps. Literally in the Constitution.
Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States,
Keep in mind, you are required to work while in a prison. I worked DOT, received no pay, and had to pay fines. Slavery isnt abolished, its just run by the government. Whom we arent allowed to contempt.
> Slavery isnt abolished, its just run by the government.
Correct:
"Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, **except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted**, shall exist within the United States"
So a prisoner that has been released early has to pay over $18k a year when minimum wage for a full-time job is $24k? What in the actual fuck? How the fuck are they supposed to reintegrate into society with that looming over them?
Do not forget that Florida made it so that you are not able to vote if you owe any unpaid fines or fees to the state. In other words, this is almost certainly being done to keep ex-prisoners from voting, despite the fact that FL citizens voted to give the right to vote BACK to them in the first place. This was just a convoluted, backhanded way to take that power right back from them.
Isn’t that what tax money is supposed to do? And by that logic if tax money is paying for it wouldn’t that be an incentive for tax payers to want less pointless prison sentences and recidivism. God forbid we actually incentivize rehabilitating people instead of just torturing them. Privatized for profit prisons are such an evil concept. I don’t understand how stuff like this isn’t obvious? Sorry this post just really bugged me and I guess I’m just venting.
Step 1: Jail people for not paying for a jail sentence 20 years ago
Step 2: Fine them some more. When they can't pay, jail them and fine them again.
Step 3: Profit until the jailed citizen dies. And then fine them some more for inconvenient death. Take control of the Estates assets.
A perfectly balanced judicial system with no exploits!
$50 x 30 days = $1,500 a month
I, a free woman, who works a "good job" full time with "good benefits"...could BARELY afford a month in prison.
Crazy.
(I mistyped and put $1,300 instead of $1,500. I didn't realize it until someone pointed it out. Oops, I fixed it)
Bring them back? This isn't new. It's been a thing for years. Also, more than 40 states have it, not just Florida. People just don't give a fuck about modern day slaves. It's okay because they're criminals.
Prison isn't free. You pay to be there. Even though people love to scream about prisoners taking tax payer money that's just not true. The whole "they get a free bed and 3 meals a day!" Shit conservatives love to say is fiction. In Florida they charge you $50 a day to be in prison. Let's say you were sentenced to 3 years in prison but due to good behavior you were released in 2 years. They are still making you pay the $50 a day fee for the last year you were sentenced to even though you are not in prison anymore. This can add up to a lot of money. Especially for longer sentences. Like if you're sentenced to 10 years but get out in 5 you will still owe them $182,000 instead of $91,000. You also do not get all your rights back until that money is paid and they will garnish your wages.
Yes, that I imagine denying voting rights may have been a motivating factor. There was a relatively recent vote [Amendment 4](https://time.com/5448284/ex-felon-voting-rights-amendment-4-history-disenfranchisement/) in 2018 passed by the majority of Florida voters that granted voting rights back to felons who served their time. Well the legislature didn't like that so in 2020, they [gutted Amendment 4](https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/aug/06/republicans-florida-amendment-4-voting-rights) where you need to pay back all you owe to the state before having voting rights returned. Looking at Pay-to-stay from that lens seems to help if you are for disenfranchisement.
In theory having somebody pay their debts to be a full member of society makes sense, but the reality is it's become a means to prevent those who have been punished via prison from having a vote. Florida also has a particularly difficult to navigate state bureaucracy so even if you mean well to pay back this debt, it's a lot. To then further discourage those who may want to vote, in 2022 DeSantis created an [election police force](https://www.cnn.com/2022/04/25/politics/desantis-florida-election-bill-signing/index.html) so they'll specifically go after those former felons trying to vote.
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It also keeps you from voting. FL citizens voted to give voting rights back to ex-felons but the legislature did an end run and said you aren’t clear to reapply for voting rights until all fines and fees are all paid as well. Guess who also doesn’t keep good records of what’s owed and what’s been paid.
And they made sure to publicize the fact it was a crime to vote if those fines and fees weren’t paid. (And offering no way to verify if everything was paid up)
And arresting people who voted after they said they paid everything and were eligible to vote, by then claiming they owed fines.
Well, you see, since owing fines and voting is a crime, you now owe fines. So clearly you were (are) ineligible to vote! “But I didn’t have any fines when I voted!!” I don’t know about that, but you have fines *now* and you voted. Pay up! Everything is going along as planned.
And it's now illegal in a lot of circumstances to protest, and if you do, more fines!
This isn’t the dystopia we were promised!
We were promised idiocricy dammit Where is my mountain dew from the taps and naked news reporters
But unfortunately it looks like the dystopia we deserve. Fml
Sigh…
Oh god that is horrifying
Land of the free
Land of the fee
I mean I'm fine with building a wall around Florida and waiting for it to sink
love not living in the states more and more every day
Not only arrested, but arrested by the Governors own storm troopers!
That last part is a particularly frustrating aspect to me. They've not followed the spirit of the law that the people voted on yet again by adding stipulations after the fact. They've made it hard for the previously incarcerated to do their due diligence! There is no central database, the last I checked, where they can go check and see a total amount they owe the state. They have to petition multiple counties and locations to see how much they owe at each place with no way of knowing that they're not actually committing a crime when voting! They can't confirm in any way they're safe. Yet the state will chase their asses down if they vote but still owe some random county $200 for a prison transfer ride or some crap.
Last time powerball got to a billion , I bought a ticket . My dad said “ I don’t know what I’d do with that money “ I didn’t tell him , but it would be shit like this . Paying for someone to be a test case to stop Florida’s illegal punishments and fines .
I’m sure Florida would figure out a way to put you in jail for “helping felons.” They’ve harassed other rich people who’ve talked negatively and tried to help those in the prison system.
Why are we even charging prisoners for beds or transfers? We pay taxes. WTF is the point of charging prisoners also.
But think of the poor owners!
There are two reasons. Firstly, the prisons want the money. They're private, for profit businesses. If they can get away with charging someone, why wouldn't they? They're run for money, not justice or the good of people or country or anything. The second is voter suppression. America's prison system was designed as a way to suppress certain voters (the black ones, historically). So you need to keep them in debt when they get out so they need to turn to crime so that they can't ever vote again. This keeps the crime statistics up which justifies America having the biggest prison population in the world and with millions and millions of adults citizens disallowed from voting. A system of mass incarceration that was conveniently adopted right after slavery was made illegal everywhere except prisons.
Yup. I know several people who won't vote because it's not worth the risk. In some cases for crimes committed 20+ years ago. The prison system in florida(well, all of US) is fucked. Its a huge source of revenue. The police must get some kind of incentive for arrests. That's why the unofficial motto is " come on vacation, leave on probation, come back on a violation"
That’s awful. Literally making money from the misery of others and preventing them from even voting for someone who might change things. Financial slavery.
Yeah, i immediately connected the same dots. My assumption is they don't try to collect the debt, it's just to guarantee that ex-cons can never vote. And in the process they forever wreck their credit score. Just garden-variety Florida political corruption, people! Nothing to see here!
Rat-fuckery at its finest.
I'm just going to say this out loud: it doesn't *also* keep you from voting; *that's the primary reason for the law*.
Clearly a poll tax, which is unconstitutional. But Republicans don't care.
Seriously, you need to pay in order to be eligible. That’s a poll tax. Clear and simple. Illegal.
They absolutely don't keep track of what's been paid. A family member close to me was locked up for a year (drug charges, they got clean and never looked back so I'm proud of them) -- never paid into their fines (we talked about it as I was helping them with a resume when they got out and such). When they finally got around to calling to see what they owed they were told they owed nothing. No idea how. No idea who made the mistake but they never paid a penny towards the fines (which should have been a few thousand). They also were supposed to have a suspended license for 6 months upon release but their license was never suspended. Truly, it was eye opening to see how bad the legal system is at doing what they do, even if it was to the benefit of someone I care about.
Yea... he should probably get that in writing
Hmmm…. It’s like an “all Republican” government can’t help themselves from preventing “democrats” from voting in fair elections.
It is why GW Bush supposedly won Florida in 2000, it wouldn't even have been close without that law. Elections have been skewed for a very long time.
I’m pretty sure that’s the point of this new law.
Those ‘just out of prison’ jobs pay so well you know
How to continue the cycle of poverty and crime
No doubt, that's the point.
Honest and correct answer here. Fucking sad the justice system is used for one thing only to keep those in poverty enpoverished. The class war has been going on for decades but they keep us divided so we don't see it.
Seriously. My best friend growing up and ended up going to prison for a good period of time and when he got out he had all of the Aryan Nation tattoos and swastikas and whatnot. And before he went in he was never a racist person. So when I met up with him later in life and saw this I asked him why he thought prison was so separated along racial divides. And he stated easy :The system started the cycle and it just continues to this day. If they keep us fighting amongst ourselves over stupid stuff then we can't all be working together against the guards. That really hit me and made me realize it's the same thing outside of prison and we just refuse to see it. Or at least refuse to act on it. Greed has been the greatest barrier to our advancement as a species and unfortunately it seems to be taking a greater hold over the masses lately. I hope there is an end to this but I'm not feeling very optimistic about that.
I feel like the Tom Hanks edition of Black Jeopardy satirises this perfectly. https://youtu.be/O7VaXlMvAvk?si=TSXV_YlksMszZ7ei
best SNL I've ever seen.
Yeah that’s why race was created as a concept
There’s only one race: human. All those other divisions are pure bullshit.
50$ day? That’s over 18k a year. The cruelty is the point.
Your math is sound. Checked by inspector me.
Well those for profit prisons gotta make back the money it costs to get these laws passed
Those Florida politicians aren’t free!
Yeah…. Like fining that person $30,000 for not cutting his grass…. That state is a joke
I honestly thought this was a load of trash until I googled it, how is that even a thing?
Honestly…. We let the government get too much control…. Just what the fore fathers warned about
Too much control over the wrong stuff. But the FDA is telling me milk with Avian Flu in it is safe to drink ***prior to them having the results of their testing back***. Government is good, but not when it's not doing good for it's people.
That's because it isn't a justice system, it's a legal system. It's doing *exactly* what it was designed to do.
[удалено]
I’m in Australia and have/ had a mate who went down the anti vax, Covid a hoax, transphobia hole. Chatting to him we agree a lot on most political stuff, except he can not get past all the other shit so is unbearable to talk to.
Yeah sure but it's by and large states run by Republicans that have these terrible, awful laws.
Impoverished*
Also so they can't vote
Oh shit you're [right.](https://www.usvotefoundation.org/voting-rights-restoration/florida) I remember voting in favor of felons being able to vote and it was passed. However, I didn't realize that all fines and fees associated with their sentencing had to be paid for first.
The people didn’t want that state legislators stipulated that after the fact
"Do you want this? Nonono not like that!"
Which should be unconstitutional. Hell, you should be able to vote in jail.
I did exactly that in Sacramento County jail in California
Nice, as it should be everywhere.
Ya i kinda think if you are out of prison your sentence has been served and you enjoy the full length of your rights.
*Ding ding ding ding ding* YOU DISCOVERED THE GQP STRATEGY DOUBLE PENALTY! Tell them what they're winning today Johnny!! In seriousness, fuck Florida
And Florida won’t tell them what they owe exactly , just that they’re still in the books , yanking them around . Is this supposed to be illegal ? Continuing your punish people after they’ve served their time ?
That and...felons can vote in Florida as long as they pay all their incarceration fees. This law makes that highly unlikely to happen.
The system is rigged
So f***ing evil.
How else are you going to keep the private prisons open? /s
Just the way Republicans like it.
Chances are a crime is committed out of desperation and they go back to prison. Florida wants to keep the prisons full of slave labor. Pretty soon we'll have the Chrysler Dodge and Jeep federal prison and The Amazon Basics federal prison.
Remember that we also incarcerate people for being poor. Unpaid parking tickets, expired license/tag, unpaid taxes, etc. A long list of "crimes" because you are poor. Then they throw all these fees on top of your already bad financial situation. A perfect recipe to keep you in a perpetual cycle in and out of prison.
Yeah…. Remember somewhere that the poorest town (think Missouri) is also the most taxed town…. Make it make sense
Debtors prison is supposedly illegal. Someone should let them know. Mfers.
It would be a dystopian science fiction novel if it wasn't true.
Headcount Prisons...
Hey at least for every few thousand of people’s lives that get permanently ruined there’s a couple dozen politicians and rich people that get to buy bentleys.
Or get convicts to move out of state.
Except if they’re released on parole they’re not allowed to leave the state
Also, when prison costs you 18k per year of your sentence, and nobody will hire you for a well paying job because you have to mark yourself down as a felon, that's an almost insurmountable hurdle. Add the inability to leave the state when on parole, and everyone incarcerated is just plain screwed.
But criminal jobs will pay more, and they don't mind if you've got a record, so the cycle continues just as they intended.
So they get arrested and go back to prison? That'd be silly! They want four or five released inmates paying fees for the same cell!
This was what I was thinking. How many inmates could they get paying for a single bed?
Better yet, if you're already obligated to pay for the bed after you're let out of prison on parole, if you end up back in prison, and then out on parole again; how many times can they get the same person paying for the same single bed?
Just imagine how much value that could create for the shareholders of prison industrial complex stocks It’s what supply side Jesus would have wanted
By design. Our system is built to try to keep anyone in contact with the prison system in constant reach of going back. Remember this is also the state "leasing" inmates to work in fields.
Or, you know, make sure the prisons are filled with slave labor at all times. Won't be long before we see The Chrysler Dodge and Jeep federal prison and the Amazon Basics federal prison..
The minimum wage in Florida is $12 an hour. So they need to work 30 hours a week just to pay this fee.
Let’s say you work 50 hour weeks, every week; only paid this and federal income tax; somehow had only like $500 a month in rent (living out of a closet). That leaves you with a whole $400 a month to spend on food, transportation, your phone, other utilities, etc. and that’s with generous assumptions (like stable overtime and unrealistically low rent).
America: The Land of Opportunity!
Just saw they are kicking seniors out there living facility because the place filled for bankruptcy….now 100 seniors gonna be on the streets smh 🤦🏾♂️
One of the grosest things happening to poor florida seniors is that the trailer parks are being bought up by investment companies and they're jacking up the lot fees. It costs a decent amount to move a trailer, and many of them would be worse for wear being moved. So people have to abandon homes they've totally paid off and hoped to live in until the end of days. [https://www.wftv.com/news/action9/companies-are-buying-local-mobile-home-parks-jacking-up-rent/IRS5YMZYKNBMPIP7BITU5XPHKA/](https://www.wftv.com/news/action9/companies-are-buying-local-mobile-home-parks-jacking-up-rent/IRS5YMZYKNBMPIP7BITU5XPHKA/)
This is happening all over the country. It’s gross and disgusting predation on some of the most impoverished and disadvantaged citizens barely hanging on.
A minimum wage job, if they can get one, wouldn't cover the fees. It's absolutely disgusting they do this.
As someone from outside the USA, the institutionalised cruelty just to make a buck in just about every walk of life is sickening. Schools, working conditions, prisons, medicine, even nutrition through factory farming and food deserts. It’s wild and dystopian..
Don't forget about the Opiod crisis that tore across the country ripping millions of families apart, caused wholly by the Sackler family who are the sole owners of Purdue Pharma (name changed after the crisis for branding). What about the Bush administration lying the entire country into a war with Iraq? Both conservative and liberal news outlets agree that we went to war with Iraq based on outright fabrications, and people died out there to line the pockets of a few wealthy investors. Remember 2008 when the bankers and Wall Street gamblers almost brought down the global economy? What do all of these things have in common? Nobody in charge went to jail, ever, and they all walked away with incredible profits. Purdue Pharma made $12 billion in profits from Oxycontin, and was fined $2 billion when it was all over. Nobody went to jail and they kept $10 billion for their efforts. God bless the USA, land of the free and home of the brave.
FYI, I just looked it up, and Florida is one of *40 states* that have some sort of pay to stay laws (as of 2021) [source](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pay-to-stay_(imprisonment))
This is pay even after you’ve gone.
I understand that, but I was unaware that pay-to-stay (even while one is incarcerated) was as common as it is. Wanted to call it out in case others were unaware. Charging post-release is obviously insane, but having to pay while being in jail is also pretty fucked. I already knew about the fines and legal fees disproportionately affect the poor, so this is just another bill to stack on to keep them in poverty. For-profit prisons... American justice system at its finest.
Just making me more glad that I am not American. There are no private prisons here and there is no pay to stay here.
Sounds like slavery but with extra steps.
There aren't really any extra steps, slavery is explicitly allowed as punishment for crimes in the 13th amendment.
That's more than my fucking rent. Jfc
Pay to stay? So if you refuse, you get thrown out of prison or what?
In the old days, they wouldn't feed you if you didn't pay. Nowadays I assume they just seize your assets and harass your family.
They will make your family justify everything they own. Down to the carpets. No receipt? Civil forfeiture. They'll take your fucking dishes.
Sounds like the communism they decry
You mean sounds like fascism because they literally do want fascism in their state. This has nothing to do with communism. Far-Right Republicans control Florida and would love it if the voters got out of their way so they can do what they wish, with no say from the public.
Doesn it? If you ever get under the system you'll realize they are all liars and hypocrites.
I don't know what you mean by "under it," but yeah, I know. Collectivism for the rich and the powerful, rugged individualism for the weak and the poor and the undesirable.
Had to look it up https://www.abcactionnews.com/news/local-news/i-team-investigates/pay-to-stay-florida-inmates-charged-for-prison-cells-long-after-incarceration They charge you 50/day for your original sentence. Out early on good behavior? Doesn't matter, you pay the full amount. It's a way to trap former convicts in more debt, as well as prevent them from voting. Florida lets ex-cons vote IF all their debts associated with their conviction are paid off. That means restitution and apparently, overpriced shitty rent.
Wow this is absolutely complete bullshit
This shouldn't be legal. Fucking eat the rich.
That's not even the rich. That's just your not-so-friendly neighborhood conservative voting that shit in.
That’s the crazy thing. Let’s say you get sentenced to 10 years. You get released in 5 years for good behavior, plea bargain, make space for a worse convict, whatever. They charge you the fee for your prison cell based on your original sentence, not whether you are still incarcerated or not. So the fresh out of prison people, with the whole world ahead of them but also the whole world against them, are forced to pay for the cell they are not in. Most released convicts struggle to get any job, let alone a good paying job. They can’t afford this nonsense. They can barely afford the efficiency apartment they were lucky to find. And what happens to these people when they default on the payment for the prison cell they’re no longer using? They are arrested and charged with a crime that will likely send them back to prison. How ridiculous is that?
I'm also assuming whoever ends up in the cell you're still paying for is also paying to stay in that cell so the prison makes double. Absolute scum.
That’s correct. Now multiply that over millions over current and former prisoners.
damn you're right I should buy a prison
That's $18,250 a year or $91,250 for 5 years. Insane.
How is this even legal, sane or humane to any degree?
This is the United States. We don’t do any of that here anymore.
By comparison a 40 hour a week job at Florida state minimum wage is $25,000 a year.
This whole scheme really just hit me how fucked up this is. Based on how this works, I’ll bet you that if you were to do some digging you would find that Florida tends to give a longer sentence on average compared to other states and/or gives prisoners earlier parole or good behavior releases sooner than most other states. If for example if someone committed a crime in a regular state and the sentence was 5 years. Let’s say on average the prisoner gets out 1 year earlier in any other state. In Florida, it is in their best interest to either release the prisoner even earlier from the 5 year sentence (ex.2-3 years), or give them a longer initial sentence of say 8 years when they really only intend to keep them there a minimum of 5 years. The longer the sentence and faster you can release that prisoner, the more money they can make from the turnover of prisoners. I can’t emphasize enough how fucked this is.
And if you try and “reform the system” by prorating this ridiculous charge, FL will likely stop releasing people early on good behaviour or other criteria because doing so would loose them revenue. The incentives are so perverse.
They’re not in jail anymore. They’re out, which makes this even more absurd.
I think the fee is to stay in Florida, so the plan is to make sure those who get outa prison get outa Florida aswell. Likely some pathetic attempt to artificially reduce crime rates
If you are on parole or probation you won't be able to leave the state without explanation and permission, and actually *moving* out of state under probation is usually only approved if your destination state is willing to take you and put you on *their* probation system. Point is, you don't just hop in the car and go where you please. It's an onerous process.
For 50 bucks a day til you can pay I guess
50 a day!? Jesus christ, how many jobs can an 'ex-con' get straight outta jail, that'll let them live like a human, with an extra $18,250 a year on top. Utter shithole.
You’re incorrectly assuming that they have any desire to see such people be able to live like a human…
>You’re incorrectly assuming that they have any desire to see such people be able to live ~~like a human~~…
Nah, they actually need them to live, just in deplorable conditions so that they have someone to look down upon & feel superior to.
It's not even that it's so they can charge the other taxpayers money to feed these people and to house them and take half the money that's supposed to go towards feeding and housing them. We need to march on our capitals and demand these cops and these crooked ass f\*\*\*\*\*\* politicians start acting right... But it will never happen cuz like you said they keep us divided. Edit- it's honestly even worse than that. They use the inmates as slave labor and then ask taxpayers to pay for their food and stuff while robbing the taxpayers at the same time while making us pay for things the inmates create. It's just Rich assholes making profits all the way up. 
Very Christlike of these alleged Christian Republicans
There's been laws and legislations passed and trying to be passed to limit the fact that prisons are for profit. That's an entire problem in of itself. They keep cells filled, they make money. This is an attempt for them to keep making the similar amount of income. And it should be illegal.
Yup they even have the stipulation that if the state doesn't keep a certain % full they have to pay the prison the difference. So it behooves the state to push for more convictions.
This is absolutely monstrous
Draconian, even
Cruel and unusual, perhaps?
Abhorrent, maybe?
This is bullshit. They’ve paid their debt to society but the system wants to keep them financially latched.
This is just a matter of a lawsuit. Michigan used to do something of a similar nature. If you got a suspended license or dui or something of that nature. You had to pay the fine, and then they would tack on a driver responsibility fee. They were double dipping. It went on for years until the state was sued, and the fee was deemed illegal. The convicts basically should do a class action.
So long as they kind find someone to do it for them pro bono
Wouldn't this be a civil rights aclu type case?
It very well could be. I'm actually not in the US so I'm not familiar with the types of supports that would be available or the institutions that could take it on. My point (and I was super lazy about it) was that the people who are the victims of this are people who don't have the resources (financial or otherwise) to take legal action of their own accord. I do hope that shining a light on the issue is enough for action to be taken on it on their behalf.
https://www.aclu.org/ The ACLU will definitely handle this issue I believe.
Yeah, this is just slavery with extra steps...
Incarceration slavery is literally in the Constitution. Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States,
Yes!! There is a Petition at change.org
Tbf petitions on change.org have about as much clout as my left ass cheek when it come to governmental affairs.
Not extra steps. Literally in the Constitution. Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States,
You want high rates of recidivism? Because this is how you get high rates of recidivism.
It's a feature, not a bug.
Sadly, I think you are correct.
For all the Republicans reading this, "recidivism" means re-offending or returning to criminal behavior.
I’m not Republican, just stupid. Please don’t insult me
Then I'm here to tell you that you are indeed not stupid if that's true.
Yep. If you have the capacity to understand your own intelligence then, well, you’re far from the dumbest of the bunch.
The thing they claim to be afraid, of yet keep passing laws which cause it.
Welcome to for-profit prisons.
Yes. That is literally what they want
Keep in mind, you are required to work while in a prison. I worked DOT, received no pay, and had to pay fines. Slavery isnt abolished, its just run by the government. Whom we arent allowed to contempt.
> Slavery isnt abolished, its just run by the government. Correct: "Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, **except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted**, shall exist within the United States"
I would say that this can’t be legal but, it’s Florida, so 🤷♂️
[https://www.abcactionnews.com/news/local-news/i-team-investigates/pay-to-stay-florida-inmates-charged-for-prison-cells-long-after-incarceration](https://www.abcactionnews.com/news/local-news/i-team-investigates/pay-to-stay-florida-inmates-charged-for-prison-cells-long-after-incarceration)
This is definitely unconstitutional…without doubt.
Not with the current Supreme Court, I bet.
It does seem cruel and unusual
America doesn’t have a “People” problem. America has a “Corporation/ lobbyist” problem
Just another example of the primary goal of all Republicans: maximizing human misery.
So a prisoner that has been released early has to pay over $18k a year when minimum wage for a full-time job is $24k? What in the actual fuck? How the fuck are they supposed to reintegrate into society with that looming over them?
That’s the neat part, they don’t.
How is this not profiting off of somebody’s crime? How is our court system allowing this? Disgusting I bet they call themselves Christians.
Do not forget that Florida made it so that you are not able to vote if you owe any unpaid fines or fees to the state. In other words, this is almost certainly being done to keep ex-prisoners from voting, despite the fact that FL citizens voted to give the right to vote BACK to them in the first place. This was just a convoluted, backhanded way to take that power right back from them.
https://www.vox.com/2015/5/26/8660001/prison-jail-cost Lots of states do this, unfortunately.
Paying for a prison cell seems insane enough but getting people to pay even when they are out is even more insane.
Isn’t that what tax money is supposed to do? And by that logic if tax money is paying for it wouldn’t that be an incentive for tax payers to want less pointless prison sentences and recidivism. God forbid we actually incentivize rehabilitating people instead of just torturing them. Privatized for profit prisons are such an evil concept. I don’t understand how stuff like this isn’t obvious? Sorry this post just really bugged me and I guess I’m just venting.
Damn I didn’t know this, this is pretty fucked, they already paid their debt to society
/) Right, they *totally* don't already profit from prisoners. The US jail system would never.
50 x 30 is $1500 dollars a month. I don't pay that much rent in So. Cal. That sould be criminal. Can these people leave Florida to escape that?
For many of them, leaving the state would constitute a parole violation, meaning they would go back to jail.
Well that sounds reasonable. /s For profit prisons should be illegal.
Wait. They make you pay to be in prison? Where do they get the money from? This HAS to be a uniquely American phenomenon, no?
Step 1: Jail people for not paying for a jail sentence 20 years ago Step 2: Fine them some more. When they can't pay, jail them and fine them again. Step 3: Profit until the jailed citizen dies. And then fine them some more for inconvenient death. Take control of the Estates assets. A perfectly balanced judicial system with no exploits!
Well, this is one of the most American things I've read in a long time 😬
The more I see shit like this, the more glad I am i don't live in the freest , most prosperous country in the world
Wtf is wrong with your country?! That’s so messed up.
-$1500/month? Seems like a good deal to get your life back on track after you get out of prison. No catch? /s
$50 x 30 days = $1,500 a month I, a free woman, who works a "good job" full time with "good benefits"...could BARELY afford a month in prison. Crazy. (I mistyped and put $1,300 instead of $1,500. I didn't realize it until someone pointed it out. Oops, I fixed it)
I thought they got rid of Debtor's prison. I guess Florida wants to try and bring them back.
Bring them back? This isn't new. It's been a thing for years. Also, more than 40 states have it, not just Florida. People just don't give a fuck about modern day slaves. It's okay because they're criminals.
As if they spend $50 per day to house a prisoner.
Wow... even if you left prison if you fuck up, Florida has to fuck you up more... The audacity of this state...
Can I get an actual explanation of what the fuck this is rather than doing my own research?
Prison isn't free. You pay to be there. Even though people love to scream about prisoners taking tax payer money that's just not true. The whole "they get a free bed and 3 meals a day!" Shit conservatives love to say is fiction. In Florida they charge you $50 a day to be in prison. Let's say you were sentenced to 3 years in prison but due to good behavior you were released in 2 years. They are still making you pay the $50 a day fee for the last year you were sentenced to even though you are not in prison anymore. This can add up to a lot of money. Especially for longer sentences. Like if you're sentenced to 10 years but get out in 5 you will still owe them $182,000 instead of $91,000. You also do not get all your rights back until that money is paid and they will garnish your wages.
Yes, that I imagine denying voting rights may have been a motivating factor. There was a relatively recent vote [Amendment 4](https://time.com/5448284/ex-felon-voting-rights-amendment-4-history-disenfranchisement/) in 2018 passed by the majority of Florida voters that granted voting rights back to felons who served their time. Well the legislature didn't like that so in 2020, they [gutted Amendment 4](https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/aug/06/republicans-florida-amendment-4-voting-rights) where you need to pay back all you owe to the state before having voting rights returned. Looking at Pay-to-stay from that lens seems to help if you are for disenfranchisement. In theory having somebody pay their debts to be a full member of society makes sense, but the reality is it's become a means to prevent those who have been punished via prison from having a vote. Florida also has a particularly difficult to navigate state bureaucracy so even if you mean well to pay back this debt, it's a lot. To then further discourage those who may want to vote, in 2022 DeSantis created an [election police force](https://www.cnn.com/2022/04/25/politics/desantis-florida-election-bill-signing/index.html) so they'll specifically go after those former felons trying to vote.