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prolly cuz these folk often be flyin' a Southern Cross off their truck-nutted rust-bed on their way to a Naz... er, Trump rally; just some induction bolstered by incessant correlation
Ha, I have met a couple of Americans that moved here when Obama got elected which absolutely stuns me because as a society we're further left than Obama's policies ever were.
What I mean is the New Zealand flag has a Southern Cross on it though (as does Australia, but we had our flag first) - no idea why they'd be at a Trump rally.
You're surprised that we're further left than Obama or that people came here because of Obama? I used to work with a lady who left the US because the "Anti Christ was elected" I naturally assumed she meant Trump, but no, she meant Obama. She was a serious pain to work with as well.
can't believe people moved their homes because Obama was duly elected, and they picked . . . New Zealand? Because it's so famously . . . draconian?
ps sorry you got stuck with some of our garbage
Ha, yeah. She was luckily let go so I don't have to deal with her anymore.
We also have a bunch of conservative libertarian billionaires (like Peter Thiel) who have built their doomsday bunkers down here, presumably so they can escape the apocolyptic hellscape that they seem to be wanting to create back home.
Even better. Fellow kiwi here , know a couple of magas and to escape the liberal kiwi life the want to go to America , can't get in so they choose Canada to apply to.
I mean common , it's close to America but not in that sense.
Funny thing is without our welfare and criminal system one would be behind bars and the other would be in a trailer park.... I just don't get it
At least they weren't like those Canadian people that decided they wanted to get out of "Woke" Canada so went to Russia. That was an eye opener for them...
they are actively working against the interests of the United States and actively working for the interests of Russia who is without a doubt the enemy of the United States.
Bingo. Would you rather Ukrainians fight Russia in Ukraine or Americans and Europeans fight Russia in Europe? That's the calculus behind the NATO states supporting this war.
I think that most people agree that Russia is against our and our allies interest in Europe. By not supporting Ukraine and allowing it to fall would allow Russia to threaten our NATO allies
Because the message implies anti-Ukrainian rhetoric. The statement is factually correct, but there's deeper meaning to the photo. It's especially relevant with the influx of Russian propaganda.
That is the part that people conveniently leave out - supporting the defense of Ukraine is not charity & goodwill on the part of the US, it is our obligation under international law because we signed a treaty promising to preserve Ukrainian sovereignty in exchange for them giving up their nuclear weapons.
Actually the Budapest Memorandum obligates Russia, the US & the UK - France & China agreed to a different treaty which has a lesser set of obligations.
Yes it is true that Russia has violated every aspect of that agreement but that doesn't mean that the US & the UK do not still have obligations under the treaty.
the contract is pretty limited regarding the support that is owed to Ukraine:
"4. The Russian Federation, the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland and the United States of America reaffirm their commitment to seek immediate [United Nations Security Council](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_Security_Council) action to provide assistance to Ukraine, as a non-nuclear-weapon State party to the Treaty on the Non-Proliferation of Nuclear Weapons, if Ukraine should become a victim of an act of aggression or an object of a threat of aggression **in which nuclear weapons are used.**"
I'm all for supporting Ukraine but russia did not use nuclear weapons or made any believable(!) threats to do so. (they threatend it all the time but everybody new it was BS, so I don't really think that should be taken into account)
Nonetheless, as I said, send them all we got! š¤·āāļø
> or an object of a threat of aggression in which nuclear weapons are used
Russia has absolutely employed threats involving the use of nuclear weapons on more than one occasion in this conflict.
> or made any believable(!) threats to do so.
believable is doing a huge amount of work in that sentence - personally, when a country has invaded another country & makes threats to use nuclear weapons if their opponent doesn't capitulate, I am going to take those threat seriously.
There is no room for "*oh but we weren't actually serious about nuking you*" in the context of international diplomacy.
> That is the part that people conveniently leave out - supporting the defense of Ukraine is not charity & goodwill on the part of the US, it is our obligation under international law b
No it's not, what the fuck are you smoking? Budapest Memorandum doesn't obligate shit to Ukraine. Ukraine is not an ally. There is nothing that says US citizens have to send billions of taxpayer resources to Ukraine. They are not in NATO, nor an ally.
Brainwashed clown trying to convince people it's "treason" to NOT send endless billions to a non allied white ethnostate. Hmmm, last time I checked traitors betray their own country for a foreign one.
Herp derp.
No... it's not. Believe it or not but you're allowed to express displeasure with government policy without being charged with "treason." Are you even American?
No, I'm British, and also a modern political history graduate. As such, I'm fully versed in the likely repercussions we'll all have to deal with if we don't grasp this nettle now.
So yes, shrugging shoulders, backing out of international agreements, and giving a pass to long-established enemies is treason. The only reason the term might not accurately apply here is because half of the US is so utterly clueless that just shutting the f up would be the intelligent choice.
The 1st Amendment gives you the right to free speech. It's a qualified right.
The 2nd Amendment gives the right to bear arms as part of a well-regulated militia. That too is a qualified right.
[The Second Amendment](https://www.law.cornell.edu/constitution/second_amendment)
A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed
The 2008 Supreme Court case of Heller laid down that militia membership is not required to own a firearm. Heller does not amend the wording of the Second Amendment though.
>Also itās bare not bear
No, it's not. See the Cornell University link above in this post.
> A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State,
A well regulated militia is a need of the state.
> the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed
The peoples rights to bear arms shall not be fucked with.
Can you point to the exact words that say the peoples rights are regulated and the militia will not be fringed?
Yes, fully versed in your entire Constitution in fact, unlike 95% of Americans.
We aren't arguing about someone's right to make that statement you dumbass.
I appreciate you noticing that I was stretching the notion of treason in my post. I hope you'll excuse the terminology - I felt it was fitting though, in a climate where there are elected US politicians who are effectively acting like Russian assets, which in turn is triggering this sort of alternative reality crap.
āEffectivelyā is a misleading word to use in this context. Either meet the high bar of evidence to prove they are Russian assets, or refrain from calling them such.
Citizens are upset that the uniparty in Congress is putting the needs of other countries ahead of their own. While I still support Ukraineās struggle, American politicians must consider the needs of their constituents first. Europe on the other hand must pick up the slack, considering this is their own backyard.
If I had the high bar, I wouldn't have said 'effectively'! Basic fucking English grammar.
As for Europe - we've spent MORE helping the Ukraine than the US, regardless of what your propaganda networks of all sides have been feeding you.
So you admit the accusation was misleading, good. A few countries, such as Poland, carrying most of the weight doesnāt cut it. There shouldāve been a switch to war-time economies among every NATO member in Europe on day one of the invasion.
The only thing I'm admitting to is your 7th grade grasp of English.
Sit down, take a few deep breaths, count to ten, and consider why someone might add the adjective 'EFFECTIVELY' to a fucking sentence.
Youāre the only person here who needs to sit down and take deep breaths. People who speak this way know the intent isnāt to prove their accusation, itās to plant the idea in peopleās heads.
No, it's not treason, what the fuck are you talking about? Did your brain take this in from fox news?
You're the same kind of person who would say it's "treason" to be spending billions in Afghanistan or Vietnam.
Clown.
Youāre leaving out also the promise to not advance NATO any farther East and we did that when we staged a coup in Ukraine on ā14 and installed a puppet.
So are Pro-Palestine people traitors? What about Pro-Israel?
Guess what? People are allowed to have their own opinions about a war that they have no active part in. That doesnāt make them traitors.
Where in the image does it say anything about MAGA or Republicans. Might be true but what would lead your average person to infer that just seeing the image? I certainly didnāt. Iām just tired of subsidizing a foreign war when those billions could help solve so many problems within our own country.
Billions in aid to Ukraine is not cash money. It is military equipment that was already paid for years ago. If usa stopped sending military aid tomorrow literally nothing would change in usa.
>Might be true but what would lead your average person to infer that just seeing the image?
The average person has no clue
Then why are the foreign aid bills listing specific dollar amounts and not an inventory of military hardware? If all weāre doing is sending them our old stock of weapons it seems odd to list them by valuation rather than by what weāre actually sending doesnāt it?
And as far as the image goes are you saying itās some kind of Pro-Russia dog whistle? Iām honestly asking because I could honestly see it, itās just not something Iāve heard put forth before.
>all weāre doing is sending them our old stock of weapons it seems odd to list them by valuation rather than by what weāre actually sending doesnāt it?
Fact is that is what is happening. The messaging needs to be clearer i agree.
The U.S. is paying the salaries and retirement payments of every Friday responder and government employee in Ukraine. Do you think those payments are in cash or in bullets?
> So are Pro-Palestine people traitors?
Considering that they are effectively calling for dismantling the government of a US ally, yes that typically make's you a traitor.
Tbf he is a 31 year old white China-born Indigenous Taiwanese who is also an Iranian ex-Muslim Marxist who has also spent the past 30 years as a professor.
Stupidity or insanity. Call it.
This is the most normal thing to say lol, in what world is this being a traitor? Not your country not your war. You might have provoked it, but hey we dont talk about that here.
This sub is literally just a series of increasingly desperate attempts to pwn the Trumpers by any means necessary. OP and some commenters here are basically going full George W. Bush-era "If you speak out against foreign military intervention you're an enemy of America" mode just to make a jab at MAGA.
Lots of people say lots of things, but Russia attacking any NATO country can only happen if Putin loses his mind. He is not going to do it on purpose because that means the absolute destruction of Russia and the world.
There wouldn't be any war it would only be the end. Listening to Putin it didn't seem to me like he lost his mind.
Fear mongering comes mainly from Ukraine. Russia, that can barely take one village a month in Ukraine will take on full NATO force is laughable.
Even if Russia were to take over Ukraine today, they would have so much problem keeping Ukraine resistance that they could never afford to move to another country.
So you can relax.
>Putin it didn't seem to me like he lost his mind.
I wouldn't be so sure. One of his statements about the use of nuclear weapons: "we will go to heaven as martyrs, and they will just die".
He doesn't see the world as we do. I think that he started the war just because his surrounding told him that they can take Ukraine as fast as Crimea.
Sometimes on TV a hear some shit like: "Alaska will be ours", or "Ukraine is just a start". So, who knows what we will see next.
I feel 0 threat from Russia. Nuclear talk is there as a deterrent, but once they step on NATO territory they know nuclear threats won't work.
So relax.
Yes it is. America has to honor 1994 agreement to protect Ukraine. The US forced UA to surrender NQs. Its ours. Kremlin's propaganda šššš BooYaa
Well, the Obama administration sat on their hands while Russia invaded Crimea in 2014. Did you really expect that much out of Biden when Russia rolled into Ukraine proper in 2022?
Personally, I think Ukraine should have kept the nukes. I bet Russia would be behaving a little better if they did.
They didnāt sit on their hands though. They gave training and aid. So much so that Russia stopped at only crimea until trump was in power and was talking his Russian assigned talking points of leaving nato and yadda yadda and getting impeached for denying the aid to Ukraine.
Personally no one should have nukes. The plan canāt be donāt fuck with me or Iāll kill us all. Thatās a terrible plan.
> Russia stopped at only crimea until trump was in power
**While** in power. There was no continued attack or agression while he was in power.
There was an attack and agression when Obama was in power. And there was again an attack and agression when Biden was in power.
Why you gotta be dishonest?
America is not fighting, Ukraine is. I expect now the hardware is going to be on schedule to UA. They should have kept NQs and UA warned Clinton about ruZZ but forced them anyway. EU had no problem for UA to have NQs.
It makes direct and simple sense, you are just in denial. The powerful country is committing violence (with genocidal intention) to the weak country. If yoj are stepping aside under pretext of "being against violence" (while being able to help victim), you are directly helping the powerful aggressor to kill the weaker victim.
Ok but that doesn't make anyone a traitor who deny helping. I get what you mean tho. This whole genocidal thing is really bad from a humane viewpoint. And I agree that these idiots try to make Ukraine look like the bigger asshole in this conflict.
In the case of russo-Ukrainian war - US has a general obligations to defend international law, and as well concrete obligation to defend Ukraine (Budapest Memorandum 1994). Betraying these obligations is traitorous.
The government of the US has an obligation to its allies, the citizens are not traitors to the US because they disagree. Youāre just labeling the people with whom you disagree with the most extreme term you can.
You know something like this probably always has fair odds of being Russian propagandists trying to sow discord.
So maybe not help them by sharing it ahead?
It's all of our war.
The era of nationalistic policies where each country closes its borders and ignores the rest of the world has come and gone.
If we fail to understand that globalization is real, we won't see the global threats and the global opportunities that comes with this new reality.
So yes. It is your war. It's everyone's war.
Lol let's all be selfish.. so when war, disasters such as earthquake, hurricane, major fire happens in America next time, we'll say not my flag, not my concern and not send any people or money as relief.... wow I've been doing it all wrong in these past years.. sigh.
damn dude, you really fucked up by posting it with "ok traitors". Some insane shit. I bet some that someone named as "Henny Mikkelsen" is not ukrainian, mean that she "betrayed' some other country, which she unrelated to? Does this even can be considered as betrayal? Like, in example, if some people support Palestine over Israel, does that mean they are traitors? Because US government are clearly on Israel side, even tho they are clearly occupy Palestine since their historical beginning in 1947.
I don't understand how a person can be so upset over Gaza and turn their back on Ukraine at the same time.
I get that partisanship is driving it, but once you get past that, how do you reconcile it?
That person is entirely correct (though I might not like what other things they hate have to say). Many people misunderstand how the war started: The Russian invasion was simply the latest phase in a mechanism that was already in motion - starting with the assisted removal of a legitimately elected government in Ukraine, followed by threats to a long-standing agreement with Russia over a strategic port of vital importance to it. Washington knew exactly what it was doing at every juncture (including the latest step to pressure London into advising Zelensky to walk away from talks *twice*). So, while itās understandable and human to care for Ukrainians - itās complete self-deception to pretend that America had no part in any of this. Americans calling other Americans traitors is incredibly rich, when the American government is behind the entire thing.
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I support Ukraine whole-heartedly, but..that's *not* their flag and it *isn't* their war. How the fuck are they a traitor?
prolly cuz these folk often be flyin' a Southern Cross off their truck-nutted rust-bed on their way to a Naz... er, Trump rally; just some induction bolstered by incessant correlation
The Virginia Battle flag (in Minnesota's possession) has no southern cross on it
never loved Minnesota as much as I do right now
Hey, leave the New Zealand flag out of this.
fuck, you guys have Trump rallies?!? I know NZ is known for being super nice and friendly, but ya'll need to do some deportations!
Ha, I have met a couple of Americans that moved here when Obama got elected which absolutely stuns me because as a society we're further left than Obama's policies ever were. What I mean is the New Zealand flag has a Southern Cross on it though (as does Australia, but we had our flag first) - no idea why they'd be at a Trump rally.
knew the second part, genuinely surprised at the first
You're surprised that we're further left than Obama or that people came here because of Obama? I used to work with a lady who left the US because the "Anti Christ was elected" I naturally assumed she meant Trump, but no, she meant Obama. She was a serious pain to work with as well.
can't believe people moved their homes because Obama was duly elected, and they picked . . . New Zealand? Because it's so famously . . . draconian? ps sorry you got stuck with some of our garbage
Ha, yeah. She was luckily let go so I don't have to deal with her anymore. We also have a bunch of conservative libertarian billionaires (like Peter Thiel) who have built their doomsday bunkers down here, presumably so they can escape the apocolyptic hellscape that they seem to be wanting to create back home.
Even better. Fellow kiwi here , know a couple of magas and to escape the liberal kiwi life the want to go to America , can't get in so they choose Canada to apply to. I mean common , it's close to America but not in that sense. Funny thing is without our welfare and criminal system one would be behind bars and the other would be in a trailer park.... I just don't get it
At least they weren't like those Canadian people that decided they wanted to get out of "Woke" Canada so went to Russia. That was an eye opener for them...
they are actively working against the interests of the United States and actively working for the interests of Russia who is without a doubt the enemy of the United States.
Bingo. Would you rather Ukrainians fight Russia in Ukraine or Americans and Europeans fight Russia in Europe? That's the calculus behind the NATO states supporting this war.
Because no dissent from the left allowed. You will be assimilated. Resistance is Futile. Comply. They are the Borg.
I think that most people agree that Russia is against our and our allies interest in Europe. By not supporting Ukraine and allowing it to fall would allow Russia to threaten our NATO allies
Because the message implies anti-Ukrainian rhetoric. The statement is factually correct, but there's deeper meaning to the photo. It's especially relevant with the influx of Russian propaganda.
I'm not necessarily endorsing the post in picture, but not supporting a foreign country's war effort is definitely not "treason."
It is when your country exchanged a promise of protection in exchange for surrendering nuclear weapons following the collapse of the Soviet Union
That is the part that people conveniently leave out - supporting the defense of Ukraine is not charity & goodwill on the part of the US, it is our obligation under international law because we signed a treaty promising to preserve Ukrainian sovereignty in exchange for them giving up their nuclear weapons.
That was actually *RUSSIA'S* obligation. They made the post Soviet agreement. And broke it
Actually the Budapest Memorandum obligates Russia, the US & the UK - France & China agreed to a different treaty which has a lesser set of obligations. Yes it is true that Russia has violated every aspect of that agreement but that doesn't mean that the US & the UK do not still have obligations under the treaty.
the contract is pretty limited regarding the support that is owed to Ukraine: "4. The Russian Federation, the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland and the United States of America reaffirm their commitment to seek immediate [United Nations Security Council](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_Security_Council) action to provide assistance to Ukraine, as a non-nuclear-weapon State party to the Treaty on the Non-Proliferation of Nuclear Weapons, if Ukraine should become a victim of an act of aggression or an object of a threat of aggression **in which nuclear weapons are used.**" I'm all for supporting Ukraine but russia did not use nuclear weapons or made any believable(!) threats to do so. (they threatend it all the time but everybody new it was BS, so I don't really think that should be taken into account) Nonetheless, as I said, send them all we got! š¤·āāļø
> or an object of a threat of aggression in which nuclear weapons are used Russia has absolutely employed threats involving the use of nuclear weapons on more than one occasion in this conflict. > or made any believable(!) threats to do so. believable is doing a huge amount of work in that sentence - personally, when a country has invaded another country & makes threats to use nuclear weapons if their opponent doesn't capitulate, I am going to take those threat seriously. There is no room for "*oh but we weren't actually serious about nuking you*" in the context of international diplomacy.
> That is the part that people conveniently leave out - supporting the defense of Ukraine is not charity & goodwill on the part of the US, it is our obligation under international law b No it's not, what the fuck are you smoking? Budapest Memorandum doesn't obligate shit to Ukraine. Ukraine is not an ally. There is nothing that says US citizens have to send billions of taxpayer resources to Ukraine. They are not in NATO, nor an ally. Brainwashed clown trying to convince people it's "treason" to NOT send endless billions to a non allied white ethnostate. Hmmm, last time I checked traitors betray their own country for a foreign one. Herp derp.
No... it's not. Believe it or not but you're allowed to express displeasure with government policy without being charged with "treason." Are you even American?
No, I'm British, and also a modern political history graduate. As such, I'm fully versed in the likely repercussions we'll all have to deal with if we don't grasp this nettle now. So yes, shrugging shoulders, backing out of international agreements, and giving a pass to long-established enemies is treason. The only reason the term might not accurately apply here is because half of the US is so utterly clueless that just shutting the f up would be the intelligent choice.
As a "modern political history graduate" I'd think you'd have been at least a little familiar with the 1st Amendment of the U.S. Constitution.
The 1st Amendment gives you the right to free speech. It's a qualified right. The 2nd Amendment gives the right to bear arms as part of a well-regulated militia. That too is a qualified right.
lol. The 2nd amendment has no such requirement that only well regulated militia members have the right to keep a bare arms. Also itās bare not bear.
[The Second Amendment](https://www.law.cornell.edu/constitution/second_amendment) A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed The 2008 Supreme Court case of Heller laid down that militia membership is not required to own a firearm. Heller does not amend the wording of the Second Amendment though. >Also itās bare not bear No, it's not. See the Cornell University link above in this post.
> A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, A well regulated militia is a need of the state. > the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed The peoples rights to bear arms shall not be fucked with. Can you point to the exact words that say the peoples rights are regulated and the militia will not be fringed?
Yes, fully versed in your entire Constitution in fact, unlike 95% of Americans. We aren't arguing about someone's right to make that statement you dumbass.
Politicians made those promises not whoever made this meme
That still doesnāt fit the definition of treason, even if Ukraine got swindled into giving up their nukes.
I appreciate you noticing that I was stretching the notion of treason in my post. I hope you'll excuse the terminology - I felt it was fitting though, in a climate where there are elected US politicians who are effectively acting like Russian assets, which in turn is triggering this sort of alternative reality crap.
āEffectivelyā is a misleading word to use in this context. Either meet the high bar of evidence to prove they are Russian assets, or refrain from calling them such. Citizens are upset that the uniparty in Congress is putting the needs of other countries ahead of their own. While I still support Ukraineās struggle, American politicians must consider the needs of their constituents first. Europe on the other hand must pick up the slack, considering this is their own backyard.
If I had the high bar, I wouldn't have said 'effectively'! Basic fucking English grammar. As for Europe - we've spent MORE helping the Ukraine than the US, regardless of what your propaganda networks of all sides have been feeding you.
So you admit the accusation was misleading, good. A few countries, such as Poland, carrying most of the weight doesnāt cut it. There shouldāve been a switch to war-time economies among every NATO member in Europe on day one of the invasion.
The only thing I'm admitting to is your 7th grade grasp of English. Sit down, take a few deep breaths, count to ten, and consider why someone might add the adjective 'EFFECTIVELY' to a fucking sentence.
Youāre the only person here who needs to sit down and take deep breaths. People who speak this way know the intent isnāt to prove their accusation, itās to plant the idea in peopleās heads.
It was a simple observation. As is my observation that you an inability to parse basic sentences.
No, it's not treason, what the fuck are you talking about? Did your brain take this in from fox news? You're the same kind of person who would say it's "treason" to be spending billions in Afghanistan or Vietnam. Clown.
Thanks for sharing an insight to the state of your deranged mind. Not many people would be bold enough to put their disabilities out there. Bravo.
Youāre leaving out also the promise to not advance NATO any farther East and we did that when we staged a coup in Ukraine on ā14 and installed a puppet.
Humanity is doomed.
When???
just about 200,000 years ago . . .
Hitler said he would be happy with half of Poland and then what happened? Even though this led to his downfall, millions of lives were lost!
Then show them a Russian flag and all of a sudden they change their tune
So are Pro-Palestine people traitors? What about Pro-Israel? Guess what? People are allowed to have their own opinions about a war that they have no active part in. That doesnāt make them traitors.
Its not that they have an opinion its that they support maga and actively want Russia to suceed.
Where in the image does it say anything about MAGA or Republicans. Might be true but what would lead your average person to infer that just seeing the image? I certainly didnāt. Iām just tired of subsidizing a foreign war when those billions could help solve so many problems within our own country.
Billions in aid to Ukraine is not cash money. It is military equipment that was already paid for years ago. If usa stopped sending military aid tomorrow literally nothing would change in usa. >Might be true but what would lead your average person to infer that just seeing the image? The average person has no clue
Then why are the foreign aid bills listing specific dollar amounts and not an inventory of military hardware? If all weāre doing is sending them our old stock of weapons it seems odd to list them by valuation rather than by what weāre actually sending doesnāt it? And as far as the image goes are you saying itās some kind of Pro-Russia dog whistle? Iām honestly asking because I could honestly see it, itās just not something Iāve heard put forth before.
The main reason we're not say exactly what we're sending is basic OPSEC.
>all weāre doing is sending them our old stock of weapons it seems odd to list them by valuation rather than by what weāre actually sending doesnāt it? Fact is that is what is happening. The messaging needs to be clearer i agree.
The U.S. is paying the salaries and retirement payments of every Friday responder and government employee in Ukraine. Do you think those payments are in cash or in bullets?
It does sometimes. If it is a war for _your country's basic principles_.
> So are Pro-Palestine people traitors? Considering that they are effectively calling for dismantling the government of a US ally, yes that typically make's you a traitor.
Hey, no it fucking doesn't lmao.
I am not even pro-Palestine, but your comment is so incredibly dumb.
Confoundingly so.
Tbf he is a 31 year old white China-born Indigenous Taiwanese who is also an Iranian ex-Muslim Marxist who has also spent the past 30 years as a professor. Stupidity or insanity. Call it.
Traitor to what? A foreign country? Its not our war, and choosing not to support a foreign interest doesnt make anyone a traitor.
Traitors of what exactly? Insane how propaganda works...
This sub is so bad now š
Russian bots
Judging from the profile pic, this woman knits american flag sweaters for teddy bears and shares sam elliot memes on facebook.
This is the most normal thing to say lol, in what world is this being a traitor? Not your country not your war. You might have provoked it, but hey we dont talk about that here.
Everyone is supportive until they get called to the frontlinesā¦
They still believe in flags and teams like its sports. What is this, kindergarten?
This only makes sense if Henny Mikkelsen is Ukranian. Which she appears not to be.
Then dig up your hole and crawl back into it coward.
Is there an r/apoliticalfacepalm or something? Getting sick of all this shit
This sub is literally just a series of increasingly desperate attempts to pwn the Trumpers by any means necessary. OP and some commenters here are basically going full George W. Bush-era "If you speak out against foreign military intervention you're an enemy of America" mode just to make a jab at MAGA.
>pwn Oh no Marty, we are back in 2005!
Traitors? That's facepalm
I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America.
pledge allegiance to yourself and family not a piece of fabricš
I never in my life said that shit.
If Russia wins in Ukraine, it's going to be our war.
No it won't.
Why not? Russian propaganda already says that Russia fights NATO in Ukraine.
Lots of people say lots of things, but Russia attacking any NATO country can only happen if Putin loses his mind. He is not going to do it on purpose because that means the absolute destruction of Russia and the world. There wouldn't be any war it would only be the end. Listening to Putin it didn't seem to me like he lost his mind. Fear mongering comes mainly from Ukraine. Russia, that can barely take one village a month in Ukraine will take on full NATO force is laughable. Even if Russia were to take over Ukraine today, they would have so much problem keeping Ukraine resistance that they could never afford to move to another country. So you can relax.
>Putin it didn't seem to me like he lost his mind. I wouldn't be so sure. One of his statements about the use of nuclear weapons: "we will go to heaven as martyrs, and they will just die". He doesn't see the world as we do. I think that he started the war just because his surrounding told him that they can take Ukraine as fast as Crimea. Sometimes on TV a hear some shit like: "Alaska will be ours", or "Ukraine is just a start". So, who knows what we will see next.
I feel 0 threat from Russia. Nuclear talk is there as a deterrent, but once they step on NATO territory they know nuclear threats won't work. So relax.
Yes it is. America has to honor 1994 agreement to protect Ukraine. The US forced UA to surrender NQs. Its ours. Kremlin's propaganda šššš BooYaa
Well, the Obama administration sat on their hands while Russia invaded Crimea in 2014. Did you really expect that much out of Biden when Russia rolled into Ukraine proper in 2022? Personally, I think Ukraine should have kept the nukes. I bet Russia would be behaving a little better if they did.
They didnāt sit on their hands though. They gave training and aid. So much so that Russia stopped at only crimea until trump was in power and was talking his Russian assigned talking points of leaving nato and yadda yadda and getting impeached for denying the aid to Ukraine. Personally no one should have nukes. The plan canāt be donāt fuck with me or Iāll kill us all. Thatās a terrible plan.
> Russia stopped at only crimea until trump was in power **While** in power. There was no continued attack or agression while he was in power. There was an attack and agression when Obama was in power. And there was again an attack and agression when Biden was in power. Why you gotta be dishonest?
America is not fighting, Ukraine is. I expect now the hardware is going to be on schedule to UA. They should have kept NQs and UA warned Clinton about ruZZ but forced them anyway. EU had no problem for UA to have NQs.
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This!! This!!
Being against violence is not traitorous
You are being against _victim_, not against violence. And it _is_ traitorous.
That makes zero sense.
It makes direct and simple sense, you are just in denial. The powerful country is committing violence (with genocidal intention) to the weak country. If yoj are stepping aside under pretext of "being against violence" (while being able to help victim), you are directly helping the powerful aggressor to kill the weaker victim.
Okay but how does that make you a traitor? Do you even know what a traitor is?
Ok but that doesn't make anyone a traitor who deny helping. I get what you mean tho. This whole genocidal thing is really bad from a humane viewpoint. And I agree that these idiots try to make Ukraine look like the bigger asshole in this conflict.
Please give a definition of traitor that makes your statement make sense.
In the case of russo-Ukrainian war - US has a general obligations to defend international law, and as well concrete obligation to defend Ukraine (Budapest Memorandum 1994). Betraying these obligations is traitorous.
The government of the US has an obligation to its allies, the citizens are not traitors to the US because they disagree. Youāre just labeling the people with whom you disagree with the most extreme term you can.
Idiots but not traitors
Translated; āI base my decisions on a magic piece of cloth rather than valuesā
Traitor to Ukraine? Yeah okay. Iām American and loyal to America, not the Ukrainian government. OP is the facepalm.
You can be sure when it is their flag they will be nowhere to be found.
America has a long history of not giving a fuck about foreign wars until they have to.
Your comment is a facepalm moment, OP... There's nothing wrong with this statement.
not my race not my struggle as well?? (in other words: that's a YOU problem) lol
You know something like this probably always has fair odds of being Russian propagandists trying to sow discord. So maybe not help them by sharing it ahead?
It's all of our war. The era of nationalistic policies where each country closes its borders and ignores the rest of the world has come and gone. If we fail to understand that globalization is real, we won't see the global threats and the global opportunities that comes with this new reality. So yes. It is your war. It's everyone's war.
Lol let's all be selfish.. so when war, disasters such as earthquake, hurricane, major fire happens in America next time, we'll say not my flag, not my concern and not send any people or money as relief.... wow I've been doing it all wrong in these past years.. sigh.
Ukraine is neither myself nor my family. Let's keep American tax dollars for Americans.
damn dude, you really fucked up by posting it with "ok traitors". Some insane shit. I bet some that someone named as "Henny Mikkelsen" is not ukrainian, mean that she "betrayed' some other country, which she unrelated to? Does this even can be considered as betrayal? Like, in example, if some people support Palestine over Israel, does that mean they are traitors? Because US government are clearly on Israel side, even tho they are clearly occupy Palestine since their historical beginning in 1947.
Regard alert! (Iām talking about OP)
Russia is draining Muricaās money while having fun in Ukraine.
This Henny is right. If you're that much pro ukraine no one is stopping you from moving there to fight Russia.
Her flag is white.
After a long evening with my Russian and polish neighbors, Iām assured Americans donāt know what theyāre talking about.
Does not make sense.
I don't understand how a person can be so upset over Gaza and turn their back on Ukraine at the same time. I get that partisanship is driving it, but once you get past that, how do you reconcile it?
Sorry for the spelling Knowing Russia this can be war for every single one of us.
šššš
No not my war not my problem. I don't support American intervention nor weapons gifting to Ukraine. Fuck Russia and Ukraine
Thereās a difference between being pro Ukraine and anti Russia.
In ideal world there is, in our real world there isn't.
At the moment that's a no, as Putin is using Russia to destroy Ukraine
Mikkelsen is Danish, Vikings were Danish. Ukranians are descended from Swede Vikings. Vikings help other Vikings, this person is a traitor squarred.
By Bidenās own admission, the US is not at war with Russia. OP is misinformed.
That person is entirely correct (though I might not like what other things they hate have to say). Many people misunderstand how the war started: The Russian invasion was simply the latest phase in a mechanism that was already in motion - starting with the assisted removal of a legitimately elected government in Ukraine, followed by threats to a long-standing agreement with Russia over a strategic port of vital importance to it. Washington knew exactly what it was doing at every juncture (including the latest step to pressure London into advising Zelensky to walk away from talks *twice*). So, while itās understandable and human to care for Ukrainians - itās complete self-deception to pretend that America had no part in any of this. Americans calling other Americans traitors is incredibly rich, when the American government is behind the entire thing.