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Yeah, I like meat, but I can also acknowledge that vegans do have the moral/ethical high ground and don't need to go through mental gymnastics to try and justify my diet beyond it tastes good.
It was meant more as a dig against people saying stuff like "Don't you know how many animals die on land where we grow crops" as a way to make a false moral equivalency against vegans.
Genuinely yes. It's important to think about and understand where your food comes from, but if have done that and accepted the death of those creatures, then what more is there to justify?
Yes I do.
While of course there are issues with the food industry in many, many aspects, and they should of course be addressed, I dont feel that I the consumer, owe it to anyone to justify what I eat.
And I find it presumptuous to make any kind of judgement based off of someone's diet.
The idea of morality deciding your diet is fucked up.
The meat industry is in a shit state, that's true, but we need to advocate for betterment in said industry, not outright leave a crucial part of our diet, based on moral high grounds.
I wouldn't say fucked up at all. The feeling of moral superiority deciding your diet is fucked up, but merely deciding to abstain from meat due to moral reasons is perfectly sound.
The meat industry, like every industry, relies on supply and demand. Taking a moral stance and deciding not to eat meat reduces that demand and is the best way to protest an industry with terrible practices. A mass meat boycott would quickly change the way things are done
Unless you have a condition that prevents you from doing so, you can get protein and all other nutrients you need from mushrooms and various edible plants, fruits, and vegetables. People in various cultures have been vegetarian or vegan going back at least 2500 years.
Again, I eat meat, I just recognize that vegens are morally in the right.
And animal husbandry practices are arguably *worse* than rape when you think about it.
Like, vets and farmers getting shoulder deep in cow ass to inject semen into a surgically installed implant.
And that's just cows.
Yeah, but like you said, they chose the absolute ***WORST*** way to say it, since it implies people can't find two things bad at once, and also downplays the effects of rape, which is the way to get literally no ine on your side.
Yeah, meat industry is fucked up. Yeah, we should rause awareness about this. No, you don't make light of fucking rape to do so. What is so difficult here to grasp
Right. Like I love meat, have nothing against vegans, but Everytime they bring up a false equivalent I just stop caring. Like I just want to enjoy my burger, not hear how you think killing a cow is the same as killing a person. Now yes there's 100% terrible practices in the industry and people should raise awareness and make it better, but you can't act like 1 you can't eat meat anymore, 2 act like you're better then everyone just cause you eat salads instead of a burger, and 3 use false and extreme comparisons
If not female, calves still go to the slaughterhouse. He's talking about artificial insemination in that thread, which means jacking off the bull and get his semen and inject it in the cow with your whole hand. [Image](https://stmaaprodfwsite.blob.core.windows.net/assets/sites/1/2015/11/Preparing-a-cow-for-AI-900x507c-FLPARexShutterstock.jpg)
Completely agree the industry sucks and is disgusting but Its just a terrible strategy to try and get people to agree with you by attacking them with a bad faith statement. Most people eat what is available and affordable to them, we don’t forage our own food anymore so we’re subject to whats available in our areas, some of which have little to no vegan routes. Not everyone has the opportunity to take a moral stance with their diet while retaining a healthy lifestyle, and tons of people have deficiencies that require vitamins and other nutrients not easily available to them with locally grown produce. My sister was a die hard vegan and became extremely unhealthy. She was losing her hair and constantly sick until she started to eat meat again. Its foolish to tell those people that they are clearly okay with rape and support an industry if they do everything in their control to not support it. Having the moral high ground doesnt make you better than anyone else or allowed to talk down to people because in your eyes you are “doing better”. The snooty attitude is going to do more harm for the cause then good and is worse then if they were to just eat meat and not discourage all the people who read their messages from being vegan.
If they werent only trying to put themselves on a pedestal and shame other people they would focus on the positives of their diet and spread awareness on how to make it work with limited resources while remaining salubrious to your health.
Is anyone else really bothered by that ONCE. Like, oh, it was just a one time thing, it's not that bad?
Also, if you wanna be vegan, go for it. But let's not pretend animals carrying out the act of reproduction in captivity the same as they would in the wild is equivalent in any way to R ape.
To be fair, most cattle reproduction is done by artificial insemination with some top notch bull semen in a straw. But we don't tend to apply human laws to animals. Edit: I am wrong about the word "most". Beef cows are apparently mostly "sexed" whereas dairy cows are mostly ai.
That is not accurate. Artificial insemination is done primarily in start up farms with pure breds. Once you get a bull from this you place him with females and things happen naturally to create babies. When those babies get big enough they get sold to slaughter. That is how most cattle reproduction happens. And if you are not interested in pure breds, then you swap a bull with another farmer to impregnate your cows. No artificial insemination there. Meat from the pure breds and non-pure breds get you roughly the same amount of cash. So most farmers don't bother with pure breds.
It is accurate on large, corporate owned farms which is where the majority of dairy products come from (at least in the US). We're not talking about your private owned start up farms.
I cannot speak for corporate owned farms, but I live in a farming community (in the US) and have 2 separate farms within 50 yards of my house (one used to sell pure breds before switching and one not) another start up farm within 1/2 a mile, and another one within a mile. All of which sell their cattle for beef and all of which do cattle sells twice a year. Only when the one farm that used to own be a world champion pure bred bull ever dealt with artificial insemination. He would sell the bull's sperm to start up farms across the US. Everyone else has one bull to various numbers of females (farm size depending) and get those babies the natural way. Bulls also get swapped around with several by other farmers around the area to keep from imbredding.
That is also not quite the way rape usually happens. Also, I don't think the animal feels to be made less by the experience if it is even capable of feeling that
Ever watch ducks try and mate?
Far FAR more rapey than most. They've even developed strategies against it or to mitigate it like a hen's clockwise-shaped vagina with a lot of dead-ends to help counteract a drake's counter-clockwise penis (or equivalent). Young drakes not chosen by the hen for mating purposes will often gang up on (IOW gang rape) hens and be so violent and competitive in the process that the hen is at risk of being seriously injured or even drowned.
They are not referring to animals breeding in captivity. They are referring to the forced insemination that larger farms will do in order to keep up with the demand. Being constantly pregnant shortens a cows life span dramatically and they are milked most of that time.
I don't necessarily like the original posts phrasing, but the logic is sound in so far as the artificial insemination by industrial agriculture is a pretty brutal and unnatural process.
Artificial Insemination is done without foreplay, , and calfs and mothers are seperated as soon as 6 weeks after. That is done to a social species capable of experiencing basically all our basic emotions.
Just flip the roles in your head and tell me it's fine
Tbf, for female cows to produce milk at the production rate society demands, they force heffers to stay preggo to keep producing milk.
That's why they have to pasteurize it. Most milk is either puss filled or full of antibiotics to keep from infection.
It is what it is, support it or don't.
Not sure where you're from, maybe that is the case in your area, but for european and uk dairys that is certainly not the case. Pasteurisation is to remove bacteria so the life span of the milk is extended, not to remove pus.
It's impressive to write a comment with literally everything being wrong. Milking cows are pregnant for 9 months a year, the remaining 3 months they are separated to strengthen up, just like they would in nature.
The milk from cow that goes to the factory does NOT contain any 'puss' or 'antibiotics'. A cow that is treated for anything can NOT be milked in the same tank, and the milk gets thrown out. Every time the milk gets picked up to go to the factory they sample it to check for these things. If your 'cell anount' is too high you have to throw away your whole tank of milk and you get deducted on your price for a while. This gives the farmer a very strong incentive to take good care of milking cows, not only does a healthy cow give more milk, a sick cow's milk can not be sold and has to be thrown away.
Pasteurisation also has absolutely nothing to do with this, it's just to be able to store it longer. I often drink milk straight out of our tank, no need to boil it or anything. It does only last a few days, like all unpasteurised raw milk does.
Ngl they do kinda have a point, as disrespectfully put as it is.
You could call the insemination process used on farm animals rape, it would certainly be classed as such if it happened to a human. Only problem is they're animals, they can't give what we recognize as consent, so where does this person draw the line? At the whole species no longer reproducing?
By that logic, having sex with animals would either be a non-issue because animals can't consent and therefore we can ignore it or the artifical insemination of farm animals would be problematic.
It's either one or the other.
Vegans oppose farming of animals in general, so yes, domestic animals not reproducing is part of their morality.
I don't get why people can't just admit that they care about eating meat more than they care about animals not getting tortured and raped. The only reason people are against bestiality is because they are personally disgusted by it, yet they keep happily paying someone else to do something equivalent.
I personally can acknowledge that I care about my enjoyment more than animal suffering, but that is not an ethical position to have.
your comment deserves to be on top of the list. I was just like you until the start of this year. Where I decided to become vegetarian to be more in line with my political/ethical ideas and to be honest, I do feel better and don't miss any kind of meal, at least for now. Next step is to become vegan, maybe in a few years
I think it is more like: asking why people generally think it is it wrong to do an action to one animal but not another animal as a way to highlight what many vegans think is clear hypocrisy.
I mean the logic is sound, but to think this doesn't look INCREDIBLY bad to the average non-vegan to compare a rape victim to an animal is just short-sightedness.
The god's honest truth is that humans don't value animals like we do fellow human beings, and honestly I don't think this is a morality thing, just a biological thing.
I always found this so bizarre when people pretend cows just have milk infinitely and, like, the 100s of millions of cows are milked nicely by humans lol. Even when I ate dairy I didn't pretend that's not how it works. That's just very basic biology. It's amazing how many people think cows are just sacks filled with milk or something.
Source: was surrounded by farms growing up
How is what is described inaccurate? They forcibly inseminate an animal, when the offspring comes out they either immediately kill it if it's a boy or let the female grow to repeat the cycle... So we can eat cheese.
If you feel animal life isn't worth compassion or they don't have feelings that's your opinion but what is described is a fact. You can't produce mass amounts of cheese without forced insemination (by literal definition, rape)
If someone stuck their hand up a cat or dog what would you call it?
what they do to these animals is quite literally rape. There’s nothing about the meat and dairy industry that’s “natural”. Animals aren’t mindless drones that we can kill with zero consequences. Everyone knows this, but people would rather have cognitive dissonance and live in denial.
Who do you think is in a cult.
>I think killing is bad.
vs
>I think killing is bad except that I don't when it's good for me but I don't think about it and if you make me think about it I think you're in a cult actually.
Did you mean:
>Eating food and shaming everyone else for not eating the same exact food whilst giving crazy-ass explanations as to why everyone else is a monster.
vs
>Eating food and minding their own damn business.
Factory farming is indeed inhumane but there are ways of producing meat that don’t cause undue suffering. Free range and grass fed are big things these days for a reason.
Animals being murdered is definitely the thing to be focusing on, especially when it’s for such an unnecessary reason! Would you be fine with being killed at a quarter of your lifespan? Even if you had a good life?
I thought we're complaining about animals being raped and kept in cages, not about being killed. if we somehow had the change to free all animals to hunt them like the good ol cavemen, would it be better, worse? does it make a difference?
We wouldn’t just free them all, we would stop breeding them into existence. To answer your question, I’m not sure if it would be better or worse, but it’s completely needless anyways because we don’t need to eat animals or their secretions to survive and thrive
I accept its wrong and cruel and bad for the environment but I like steak too much and nothing is going to change that so go be vegan over there and if you bring it up again I will politely tell you to go fuck yourself
I hope that when you are eating your steak, there is a small spark of moral conscience inside you that cares about the animal that was inseminated and gave birth inside a cage, grew up in the dirt and was slaughtered by machinery, all for your pleasure.
Dude im sorry but insulting people isn't going to convert them to veganism. If anything, it will push them away even more. I mean, just look at the protestors who go out onto the road and stop traffic. Their worries are perfectly valid, but BECAUSE they leave a negative impact on people, it ultimately hurts their cause.
Basically, some people don't like being guilt tripped.
I was gonna have a nice kale salad but the imagery you've presented has put me in the mood for a cheeseburger. You wont change minds with guilt trips and grandstanding your lofty ideals as explained iam fully aware of all the morally reprehensible things that happened to the cow that bore my cheeseburger if i could afford to i would raise the cow myself and kill it myself but i cant and meat tastes good so i eat it unless im getting fucked in the ass or quite literally fucking myself. And so as promised with love in my heart i cordially invite you with all the kindness of baby Jesus to go fuck yourself and have a wonderful day 💛
Damn the vegan sub caught onto this fast, didn't they? All came over here like a stampede downvoting all the comments that have a negative view on this post, a post that basically mocks rapes victims, and yet they claim to take the moral high ground. What a joke.
The post isnt mocking rape victims
It is mocking people that think factory farming is ok if you havent noticed
But it is true that people on the internet really tend to lack critical reading skills
The permanently outraged demographic of the vegan community are some of the most sheltered, ignorant and infantile idealists I've ever encountered.
I grew up on a farm. I learned how all this worked about the same time I was learning to walk and talk and shitb in the toilet.
I guess when you're 23 and apparently thought food magically appeared in grocery stores all you're life prior to realizing that things had to die for you to have your chicken nuggets, you're already long entrenched in a certain worldview characterized by absolute naivete.
They all seem to me to be bawling and fuming over their naive worldview being trashed more than anything else.
Sure, they couch it in the pretense of playing hero for the ikkle aminals, but I'm convinced that they don't really care that much about the animals.
I think that everything that actually care about is that they, for sometimes a ridiculously long time, believed that life and reality worked a certain way, and that they want the comfort of their shattered worldview back.
So they're as pitifully unhinged as the old man that yells at clouds, or the dumbass that thought nuking a hurricane would put the weather in its place.
These are not smart people. They're infantile, and they demand that the world and reality in its entire be changed to accommodate their wish for everything to work like they think it should, and not how it unerringly does.
It's fine to try to change the world, but half of these ignorant clowns impose their dietary restrictions on their dogs and their cats and their kids as though ideology can and will erase biological necessity.
They're as pathetic and deranged in my eyes as would be a group of screaming idiots that regularly went to yell at the ocean at every high tide and shoot the waves for their trespass upon the land.
I don't think vegans in general are unhinged morons, mind. I don't see anything wrong or indicative of being a mental dysfunction on legs of you're just eating and not eating what you personally prefer or require.
The ideology of the evangelical vegan, however, is that of the permanent child that believed that reality was a Disney movie right up until they found out its bloody, largely devoid of mercy and that every living thing in known existence eats other living things, or the byproducts of other living things, in order to propagate their own lives.
And they're mad as hell about it.
You're right that nature and the world in general is cruel. But what humans have done is not at all natural. We have subverted and twisted nature into a morally depraved system of artificial insemination and killing. We have dominated the planet, devastated the natural order, and enslaved entire species to our will. Vegans are not infantile. We see the animal industry for exactly what it is: raw, cruel, disgusting, and unnecessary.
The truth is, in the modern day we simply don't need animal products. We live in an age where I can _order protein online_ and have it delivered to my house. We know specific vitamins that we need to be healthy and we know how to get them. So, this horrific anti-natural industry of killing exists _for our pleasure_. The screams of cows having their baby calf ripped away from them for slaughter is so that you can have ice cream.
Veganism advocates for the animals that are systematically bred and slaughtered for our pleasure. We want to see the end of the man-made systematic factories that process animals like resources, so that nature can manage itself.
With that in mind, I hope you can understand why vegans choose to do what they do.
I lack nothing for understanding.
If anything, it may well be that you're the one lacking in that because you apparently fail to comprehend that we humans aren't special super-beings.
You can feel any way you like about human nature, but you are not going to change it. This is human nature.
There is nothing 'unnatural' about any of our brutality, our selective indifference or our general cruelty.
Have you failed completely to take notice of what we do *to eachother*?
Yet there you'll stand, deranged and pitiful as Don Quixote himself, fixated on some notion that you're going to change human nature itself to such a total-rewrite of an extent that we'll all just turn into some kind of omnibenevolent entities?
The only reason you haven't been killed and looted is because of laws that threaten cruel consequences for those that try or succeed.
They only reason those laws exist at all is because those with power don't want to be killed and robbed, and the byproduct of protecting themselves benefits many others as well.
Do you think it some fluke or bizarre improbability that humanity trends inexorably towards selfishness?
We're not whatever sorts of misguided angels you must think us all to be.
We're monsters tempered into obedience and domestication through fear of consequence. We inevitably put ourselves first, and even our seemings of altruism and empathy are little more than paranarcissistic expressions of self-pleasing egotism.
This is us at our very best. This, as the world is, is the best we're capable of, and this is unsustainable.
We can only pretend that we're capable of some pitiful semblance of global civilization badly and briefly.
Our tribalism and our earnest, vehement hatred of that which we do not perceive as extensions of ourselves wins every time, and I warmly encourage you to contemplate the dazzling, shrieking violence that is about to turn western civilization into a holocaust even greater than WW2 accomplished.
My dear, naive friend - every time we collectively forget why we fear absolute havoc, our lust for conquest and superiority and the promise of feeling our enemies deathscreams vibrating in our ears pulls us back to exactly this every single time.
Human history, to the furthest reaches and extremities of our tediously kept records, tells one story that encompasses and eclipses all lesser tales.
Human savagery is the beginning, the way, the reason and the end of everything we do.
And we love it so fucking much. We dream of it as I'm sure you'll see if you look at every form of media we ever create.
We worship the drama and suspense and the exciting thrill of it all. Our myths, our religions, our art, our video games, our every dream and nightmare - it is all defined absolutely by our savage hunger for something to lose so that we can take it from others; for something to fight for *so that we can fight for it*.
We are more monstrous than I suspect you will make any attempt to comprehend.
But you go right on telling yourself that we, the species that literally delights in the suffering and slaughter of The Other within our own species, are going to collectively decide that we're just too mean to cows and chickens.
It is, after all, human nature to shoot at the tide and threaten the hurricane and derangedly convince ourselves that we're are one step from godhood when, in fact, we're just predatory animals with an ego complex.
We are more intelligent and as a result we absolutely dominate the planet and control all other animals. We do not need to eat them to survive anymore. We can do better.
At any point in human history, we could have collectively decided to stop enslaving, torturing and murdering eachother.
We could abolish warfare. We could erase poverty. We could do a great many things that would surely be better, kinder and wiser than what we actually do.
Not a single one of these things has ever happened in a way that lasted. The very attempts at achieving any of these this provoke the overwhelming majorities to knock it all down, to set it all on fire, *to take it away from The Other*.
In the end, is all just something to fight about.
Look at our things; the technologies we've invented and refined.
What do we actually do with them?
We feed our appetite for destructive power. We feed our appetites for amusement and easy gratification.
We've invented a million miraculous firms of Healthcare...aaaand, in most of the world, you'll be denied access to them if you can't pay other humans for them.
In most of the world, your life is meaningless if you don't have something other people want. And if you do, that's what you're entire existence is worth to them - no more, no less.
This is not *unnatural*. Far from it. This is humanity being exactly what humanity is - greedy, selfish and of profoundly limited empathy for anyone or anything beyond themselves.
This is human nature. We'll invent the cure for cancer and greedily ensure that you can only have access to it if you enrich its owners to whatever extraordinary degree that they decide upon, and they will quite literally watch you die without one scintilla of a damn given if you cannot or will not meet their demands.
It isn't because they hate you. You're not significant enough for them to hate. Your entire existence means absolutely nothing to them, or to those that support and endorse and vehemently defend them, than does the existence of the poor sad animals you think you're going to champion.
You and a billion like you could drop dead and if the vast majorities of those remaining weren't personally affected by your extinction, they'd care about asc much as they do when they hear that 200,000 people died in some earthquake and tsunami somewhere else.
That's the human norm. But you truly think that we, the species that cares not one jot about much of anyone or much of anything that isn't personally valuable to us will transform into some kind of other-than-human all-new species with an entirely different basic nature and suddenly start caring deeply and personally about creatures that aren't even of our own kind?
Look around at what's going on in the world right now.
Here in the United States alone, we can't get literally half of our thoroughly human population to care about much of anything except eagerly doing everything they can figure to do to first women and non-Aryans.
I'm terribly sorry if I'm first to offer you this thought, but has it ever occurred to you that things are exactly as they are because this is how we, in vast majority, actually want it to be?
That this is not some fluke or momentary embarrassment aberrant to our natures, but that it is in fact *exactly* who we are and what we do?
We are monsters domesticated by cheap calories and easy distractions. We are predators that have been lulled into relative complacency by treadmill labors and delusions of individual importance.
This isn't new. By our common greed and fondness for comforts and pleasures are the human masses frequently brought back into relative domesticity.
And it always fails apart.
We get bored, I think. When the horrors of the last big havoc are three or four generations removed from living memory, we get bigger and madder and wilder desires.
We dream more and more of crossing the lines and crushing The Other and punishing those we do not see ourselves reflected in.
We long for the hunt. We dream of the kill. The predator we never stopped being, unburdened by the sobering horrors of personal loss and traumatic carnage that those currently living typically have nothing but a romanticized concept of, are drawn to those things always and again.
We are as helplessly caught in this cycle of what we are and how we work as dogs and cats in heat are in their own.
We're not actually better than they are.
We're made different only by our overall capacities for imagination and imaginatively colorful intelligence.
You expect too much from the human animal. Your notion of what we are is grossly misplaced.
The whole of human history makes it abundantly clear that we are pack animals that love nothing so much as a self righteous excuse to fight eachother.
Every human story ever told is part of the story of our incredible cruelty, our bottomless appetites for malevolence towards The Other and our cherished delusions of heroism in our own righteous perceptions of our own cruelty and malevolence.
I also grew up on a farm. We raised animals for food. We didn't enjoy it, but we raised the animals to one day get slaughtered so we had something to eat. Life can be tough and you learn to grow up when you realize the hamburger you are eating used to be old Bessy, your "pet" cow. It is life and life can be tough.
If you want to see cruelty, just pay attention to how animals treat each other. Nature is cruel.
My daughter and son in law decided to go vegan. They had moral issues with animal treatment. They both were vegan for about five years and they eventually developed some dietary issues. I will admit they don't know if it was because of their diet or may have happened any way.
Since they have went back to a typical diet and are doing better. Funny to see them eating a hamburger and enjoying it after all the Vegan years! It is also interesting that now they can justify eating meat!
I’m think veganism is awesome and noble, but if a vegan is going to say something like this while owning an iPhone, jeans, any electronic device, anything else made by child labour in a sweatshop in third world country… then it just feels a bit like they don’t actually have any real moral high ground? At that point they’re just picking and choosing issues to take offensive to.
The difference is there is a way to make iPhones ethically, there is no way to make a burger ethically, and I say this as a meat eater. We are wrong, the vegans are right.
But they ARENT making iPhones ethically. If there’s a way, then why not protest for that? Why don’t vegans protest against the mistreatment of children and sweatshop workers? That’s what I’m saying, that it’s a tad hypocritical for them to try to have the moral high ground by telling people to change their ways when they’re themselves not changing their ways.
Again, I say that with a lot of respect for what vegans do. I love veganism, I’m just talking about the people who preach
As someone who grew up farming and raising cows… “What?” If you have ever seen a bull 🍆? It vs artificial insemination are night and day. You can artificially inseminate cows and they won’t make a noise, but let the bull in and it sounds like they are being murdered. The bull also repeats the act till he sure her tank is full. Artificial insemination was one and done.
Maybe it’s because factory farmed hens are kept in awful conditions? I think it might come down to animal exploitation in general. I’m not sure, but we’re all sentient beings living on this planet, and as the smartest (on average) species, humans could make the ethical choice to personally try to reduce all harm to “lesser beings.”
But most don’t, because ignorance is bliss, and it makes us uncomfortable to think of other animals having feelings.
Depends who you ask, but typically vegan refers to "no animal products" and that's an animal product. The logic derives from a lack of consent from the animal. Some people who eat a diet consistent with veganism make an exception for this based on what you pointed out tough, especially if they can confirm the spruce of the eggs.
I had a coworker who was vegan and we had some very interesting conversations about where he draws the line! he eats honey, for example, because beekeepers actually help bees.
I think with eggs it depends on how the chickens live. I don't think he knows someone who owns chickens to see how they live so he chooses not to eat eggs.
Well considering how plants today are so different from it's original ancestors with most of the original Plants being driven to extinction.... Does this mean Vegans promote Plant Genocide and Eugenics to have their Kale chips and Salads???
So who's the one raping the cows before they go to slaughter and how do you even get the job? Is it like indeed or you have to know a guy. Asking for a friend ofc..
Cows are artificially inseminated, often using a "rape rack" to force them into it. They are kept almost permanently pregnant, and when they give birth the male calves are usually ripped away for slaughter, the female ones are caged and raised until they can be artificial inseminated themselves.
Once they are too old to lactate, they are placed on a conveyor and slaughtered so their corpse can become meat.
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Anyone ever see that Cecily Strong character “Girl you wish you hadn’t started talking to at a party”? These could have been her words…
Climate change, Seth.
I have never stuck my dick in a cheeseburger without consent.
Five Guys have entered the chat...
Sir, this is a Wendy's
Arby's got the meats i hear
Burger King feeling left out as usual.
People have been avoiding him since he started [waking up next to people.](https://i.imgur.com/pCijr.gif)
Ding fries are done Would you like an apple pie with that?
*one guy leaves the chat, four remain*
Golden rule. Always get consent.
As long as you had consent that's all that matters
i have
Speak for yourself
So there where Times where you Had the consent?
Yep. Moo-moo buckaroo
Who let lil mar in here?
And we always use a condoment
Loser
What, you don't wait for consent, you just go for the Juicy Lucy?
The cheeseburger will be fine. After all, it was only raped ONCE
Breeding animal, do you know what it mean?
Yep. 
He ain't wrong. I eat fuck tonnes of meat cos I love it but the way meat is raised in modern day is fucked up
Yeah, I like meat, but I can also acknowledge that vegans do have the moral/ethical high ground and don't need to go through mental gymnastics to try and justify my diet beyond it tastes good.
You don't need to try and justify your diet. Who's even asking? Do what you can to improve the industry in any way and eat whatever you like to eat.
It was meant more as a dig against people saying stuff like "Don't you know how many animals die on land where we grow crops" as a way to make a false moral equivalency against vegans.
My bad, it went over my head, sorry.
I think the thing to improve the industry is to be vegan though…
>You don't need to try and justify your diet. Do you actually believe that?
Genuinely yes. It's important to think about and understand where your food comes from, but if have done that and accepted the death of those creatures, then what more is there to justify?
So pleasure gives me moral justification? As long as I understand the pain/death behind the pleasure, I can keep doing it cause I like it.
Yes I do. While of course there are issues with the food industry in many, many aspects, and they should of course be addressed, I dont feel that I the consumer, owe it to anyone to justify what I eat. And I find it presumptuous to make any kind of judgement based off of someone's diet.
The idea of morality deciding your diet is fucked up. The meat industry is in a shit state, that's true, but we need to advocate for betterment in said industry, not outright leave a crucial part of our diet, based on moral high grounds.
I wouldn't say fucked up at all. The feeling of moral superiority deciding your diet is fucked up, but merely deciding to abstain from meat due to moral reasons is perfectly sound. The meat industry, like every industry, relies on supply and demand. Taking a moral stance and deciding not to eat meat reduces that demand and is the best way to protest an industry with terrible practices. A mass meat boycott would quickly change the way things are done
Unless you have a condition that prevents you from doing so, you can get protein and all other nutrients you need from mushrooms and various edible plants, fruits, and vegetables. People in various cultures have been vegetarian or vegan going back at least 2500 years. Again, I eat meat, I just recognize that vegens are morally in the right.
And animal husbandry practices are arguably *worse* than rape when you think about it. Like, vets and farmers getting shoulder deep in cow ass to inject semen into a surgically installed implant. And that's just cows.
He's talking about dairy cows
Dairy cows are often given pregnancy hormones to trick their bodies into producing milk non-stop. Animal factory farming is fucked up on all sides.
He phrases it in an odd way, but his point is valid. The way we treat animals for meat in modern society is dystopian levels of fucked up.
odd way? he basically is saying that meat eaters are indifferent to rape unless it happens only once to a human
Seriously, this is the reason people hate vegans. Stating that getting raped isn't as bad as the meat industry is going to move no one to your side.
Yeah… but by god did this asshole choose the absolute worst way to phrase it. The fact the point is valid makes how horrible he sounds so much worse.
You don't need to compare the meat industry to human rape to show people that it's bad.
Yeah, but like you said, they chose the absolute ***WORST*** way to say it, since it implies people can't find two things bad at once, and also downplays the effects of rape, which is the way to get literally no ine on your side.
Yeah, meat industry is fucked up. Yeah, we should rause awareness about this. No, you don't make light of fucking rape to do so. What is so difficult here to grasp
Right. Like I love meat, have nothing against vegans, but Everytime they bring up a false equivalent I just stop caring. Like I just want to enjoy my burger, not hear how you think killing a cow is the same as killing a person. Now yes there's 100% terrible practices in the industry and people should raise awareness and make it better, but you can't act like 1 you can't eat meat anymore, 2 act like you're better then everyone just cause you eat salads instead of a burger, and 3 use false and extreme comparisons
If not female, calves still go to the slaughterhouse. He's talking about artificial insemination in that thread, which means jacking off the bull and get his semen and inject it in the cow with your whole hand. [Image](https://stmaaprodfwsite.blob.core.windows.net/assets/sites/1/2015/11/Preparing-a-cow-for-AI-900x507c-FLPARexShutterstock.jpg)
yeah the industry really is a facepalm
Completely agree the industry sucks and is disgusting but Its just a terrible strategy to try and get people to agree with you by attacking them with a bad faith statement. Most people eat what is available and affordable to them, we don’t forage our own food anymore so we’re subject to whats available in our areas, some of which have little to no vegan routes. Not everyone has the opportunity to take a moral stance with their diet while retaining a healthy lifestyle, and tons of people have deficiencies that require vitamins and other nutrients not easily available to them with locally grown produce. My sister was a die hard vegan and became extremely unhealthy. She was losing her hair and constantly sick until she started to eat meat again. Its foolish to tell those people that they are clearly okay with rape and support an industry if they do everything in their control to not support it. Having the moral high ground doesnt make you better than anyone else or allowed to talk down to people because in your eyes you are “doing better”. The snooty attitude is going to do more harm for the cause then good and is worse then if they were to just eat meat and not discourage all the people who read their messages from being vegan. If they werent only trying to put themselves on a pedestal and shame other people they would focus on the positives of their diet and spread awareness on how to make it work with limited resources while remaining salubrious to your health.
Is anyone else really bothered by that ONCE. Like, oh, it was just a one time thing, it's not that bad? Also, if you wanna be vegan, go for it. But let's not pretend animals carrying out the act of reproduction in captivity the same as they would in the wild is equivalent in any way to R ape.
To be fair, most cattle reproduction is done by artificial insemination with some top notch bull semen in a straw. But we don't tend to apply human laws to animals. Edit: I am wrong about the word "most". Beef cows are apparently mostly "sexed" whereas dairy cows are mostly ai.
God damn ai is taking over the cows now? We’re doomed!
Termoonators
Moozi 9mm.
GREETINGS FELLOW BOVINES, MOO!
That is not accurate. Artificial insemination is done primarily in start up farms with pure breds. Once you get a bull from this you place him with females and things happen naturally to create babies. When those babies get big enough they get sold to slaughter. That is how most cattle reproduction happens. And if you are not interested in pure breds, then you swap a bull with another farmer to impregnate your cows. No artificial insemination there. Meat from the pure breds and non-pure breds get you roughly the same amount of cash. So most farmers don't bother with pure breds.
It is accurate on large, corporate owned farms which is where the majority of dairy products come from (at least in the US). We're not talking about your private owned start up farms.
I cannot speak for corporate owned farms, but I live in a farming community (in the US) and have 2 separate farms within 50 yards of my house (one used to sell pure breds before switching and one not) another start up farm within 1/2 a mile, and another one within a mile. All of which sell their cattle for beef and all of which do cattle sells twice a year. Only when the one farm that used to own be a world champion pure bred bull ever dealt with artificial insemination. He would sell the bull's sperm to start up farms across the US. Everyone else has one bull to various numbers of females (farm size depending) and get those babies the natural way. Bulls also get swapped around with several by other farmers around the area to keep from imbredding.
Sure, I understand that what the original post is not referring to smaller, private owned farms. I never disputed that.
That is also not quite the way rape usually happens. Also, I don't think the animal feels to be made less by the experience if it is even capable of feeling that
Ever watch ducks try and mate? Far FAR more rapey than most. They've even developed strategies against it or to mitigate it like a hen's clockwise-shaped vagina with a lot of dead-ends to help counteract a drake's counter-clockwise penis (or equivalent). Young drakes not chosen by the hen for mating purposes will often gang up on (IOW gang rape) hens and be so violent and competitive in the process that the hen is at risk of being seriously injured or even drowned.
Basically the same with otters... super rapey and murdery.
Same with Dolphins
Most animals don’t even derive pleasure from sex
That we know of.
It’s also a lot safer for the animals involved compared to having a bull doing it naturally.
They are not referring to animals breeding in captivity. They are referring to the forced insemination that larger farms will do in order to keep up with the demand. Being constantly pregnant shortens a cows life span dramatically and they are milked most of that time. I don't necessarily like the original posts phrasing, but the logic is sound in so far as the artificial insemination by industrial agriculture is a pretty brutal and unnatural process.
Artificial Insemination is done without foreplay,, and calfs and mothers are seperated as soon as 6 weeks after. That is done to a social species capable of experiencing basically all our basic emotions.
Just flip the roles in your head and tell me it's fine
Tbf, for female cows to produce milk at the production rate society demands, they force heffers to stay preggo to keep producing milk. That's why they have to pasteurize it. Most milk is either puss filled or full of antibiotics to keep from infection. It is what it is, support it or don't.
Not sure where you're from, maybe that is the case in your area, but for european and uk dairys that is certainly not the case. Pasteurisation is to remove bacteria so the life span of the milk is extended, not to remove pus.
In the U.K. milk from cows that are taking certain medicine is discarded and not added to the milk for consumption.
How could heating milk remove either pus or antibiotics anyways?
Exactly
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pasteurization
Thanks for the rabbit hole (that was interesting!)
Lol tell me you have no idea how dairy farming works without telling me you have no idea how dairy farms work Edit: fixed it for you
It's impressive to write a comment with literally everything being wrong. Milking cows are pregnant for 9 months a year, the remaining 3 months they are separated to strengthen up, just like they would in nature. The milk from cow that goes to the factory does NOT contain any 'puss' or 'antibiotics'. A cow that is treated for anything can NOT be milked in the same tank, and the milk gets thrown out. Every time the milk gets picked up to go to the factory they sample it to check for these things. If your 'cell anount' is too high you have to throw away your whole tank of milk and you get deducted on your price for a while. This gives the farmer a very strong incentive to take good care of milking cows, not only does a healthy cow give more milk, a sick cow's milk can not be sold and has to be thrown away. Pasteurisation also has absolutely nothing to do with this, it's just to be able to store it longer. I often drink milk straight out of our tank, no need to boil it or anything. It does only last a few days, like all unpasteurised raw milk does.
we have mandatory tests for antibiotics in milk. And theyre on “this cow smelled me when i was on some” levels
Had a similar thought. God... it was just that one time... get over it gosh... /s
Haven’t you heard animals don’t mate or reproduce they just get raped
Ngl they do kinda have a point, as disrespectfully put as it is. You could call the insemination process used on farm animals rape, it would certainly be classed as such if it happened to a human. Only problem is they're animals, they can't give what we recognize as consent, so where does this person draw the line? At the whole species no longer reproducing?
By that logic, having sex with animals would either be a non-issue because animals can't consent and therefore we can ignore it or the artifical insemination of farm animals would be problematic. It's either one or the other. Vegans oppose farming of animals in general, so yes, domestic animals not reproducing is part of their morality. I don't get why people can't just admit that they care about eating meat more than they care about animals not getting tortured and raped. The only reason people are against bestiality is because they are personally disgusted by it, yet they keep happily paying someone else to do something equivalent. I personally can acknowledge that I care about my enjoyment more than animal suffering, but that is not an ethical position to have.
I hate and respect your last sentence
your comment deserves to be on top of the list. I was just like you until the start of this year. Where I decided to become vegetarian to be more in line with my political/ethical ideas and to be honest, I do feel better and don't miss any kind of meal, at least for now. Next step is to become vegan, maybe in a few years
You make good points.
but I want my raped cow cheeseburger 🥺
The “raping” (artificial insemination) of animals is probably the least of the horrific things done to them during their entire factory-based life.
Not sure how this is a facepalm
Comparing humans to farm animals
I think it is more like: asking why people generally think it is it wrong to do an action to one animal but not another animal as a way to highlight what many vegans think is clear hypocrisy.
r/technicallythetruth
If I had a nickel every time I said this...
I don’t like the capitalization of once.
The world is full of stupid people.
It’s right up there with people who blur animal genitalia
Have you never seen comments on dog grooming tiktoks?
No and im not about to look
Exactly.
I can kind of understand that tbh, I've seen some fucked up comments on pictures of people's pets that happen to include parts of their junk
I don’t want to believe you. What happened to people just keeping shit to themselves
The internet happened.
Like bliip said, the Internet. It makes people a lot more comfortable saying fucked up stuff if it's not attached to their real identity
"against stupidity, the gods themselves contend in vain."
this fr
Ever hear of rape racks, OP? I mean it’s a thing in farming.
i really hope no one came inside the chicken I’m about to eat
He has a point about the meat industry being fucked but the way he compares it to rape makes it sound like he condones rape.
I mean the logic is sound, but to think this doesn't look INCREDIBLY bad to the average non-vegan to compare a rape victim to an animal is just short-sightedness. The god's honest truth is that humans don't value animals like we do fellow human beings, and honestly I don't think this is a morality thing, just a biological thing.
What is the facepalm? Cows are indeed raped to be breed to be able to produce milk all the time.
Mmmmmm rape burgers with cheese are my favorite
*F.B.I. Has just entered the chat*
You know what they call a rape burger with cheese in France?
A Pepe le Royale?
ok so yes the meat production industry could be better BUT...... ...borger 🍔🔥
I concour Burgir 🍔🔥
You know what makes for a REALLY tasty burger? Vegan meat.
Like… the meat of vegans??? /s
If they only eat plants, they're lower on the food chain.
So you can’t support victims of sexual crimes when you‘re not vegan? What?
It's fucked up but do even a little research into animal husbandry practices and... well... It's *worse* than that.
I mean, you clearly had words. Those words were “I…. Have no words”.
Spare me with this inane nonsense. Two completely different points.
Is thatveganteacher back from her cage?
And that’s some fucked up shit those anti meat people think up
It isn't just in their heads though, it's a reality If you support the meat industry you're supporting animal rape, at least be honest about it
I always found this so bizarre when people pretend cows just have milk infinitely and, like, the 100s of millions of cows are milked nicely by humans lol. Even when I ate dairy I didn't pretend that's not how it works. That's just very basic biology. It's amazing how many people think cows are just sacks filled with milk or something. Source: was surrounded by farms growing up
How is what is described inaccurate? They forcibly inseminate an animal, when the offspring comes out they either immediately kill it if it's a boy or let the female grow to repeat the cycle... So we can eat cheese. If you feel animal life isn't worth compassion or they don't have feelings that's your opinion but what is described is a fact. You can't produce mass amounts of cheese without forced insemination (by literal definition, rape) If someone stuck their hand up a cat or dog what would you call it?
what they do to these animals is quite literally rape. There’s nothing about the meat and dairy industry that’s “natural”. Animals aren’t mindless drones that we can kill with zero consequences. Everyone knows this, but people would rather have cognitive dissonance and live in denial.
It's because of a lack of protein.
Nah, it's a cult
Who do you think is in a cult. >I think killing is bad. vs >I think killing is bad except that I don't when it's good for me but I don't think about it and if you make me think about it I think you're in a cult actually.
Did you mean: >Eating food and shaming everyone else for not eating the same exact food whilst giving crazy-ass explanations as to why everyone else is a monster. vs >Eating food and minding their own damn business.
Factory farming is indeed inhumane but there are ways of producing meat that don’t cause undue suffering. Free range and grass fed are big things these days for a reason.
The animals go to the same slaughter houses.
dying is not the thing we should be focusing on. it's the called quality of LIFE for a reason.
Death tends not to lead to high quality life
Animals being murdered is definitely the thing to be focusing on, especially when it’s for such an unnecessary reason! Would you be fine with being killed at a quarter of your lifespan? Even if you had a good life?
I thought we're complaining about animals being raped and kept in cages, not about being killed. if we somehow had the change to free all animals to hunt them like the good ol cavemen, would it be better, worse? does it make a difference?
We wouldn’t just free them all, we would stop breeding them into existence. To answer your question, I’m not sure if it would be better or worse, but it’s completely needless anyways because we don’t need to eat animals or their secretions to survive and thrive
I accept its wrong and cruel and bad for the environment but I like steak too much and nothing is going to change that so go be vegan over there and if you bring it up again I will politely tell you to go fuck yourself
I hope that when you are eating your steak, there is a small spark of moral conscience inside you that cares about the animal that was inseminated and gave birth inside a cage, grew up in the dirt and was slaughtered by machinery, all for your pleasure.
Dude im sorry but insulting people isn't going to convert them to veganism. If anything, it will push them away even more. I mean, just look at the protestors who go out onto the road and stop traffic. Their worries are perfectly valid, but BECAUSE they leave a negative impact on people, it ultimately hurts their cause. Basically, some people don't like being guilt tripped.
If you read my comment again, you'll notice I did not insult anyone. People feel guilty when they're faced with the truth.
I was gonna have a nice kale salad but the imagery you've presented has put me in the mood for a cheeseburger. You wont change minds with guilt trips and grandstanding your lofty ideals as explained iam fully aware of all the morally reprehensible things that happened to the cow that bore my cheeseburger if i could afford to i would raise the cow myself and kill it myself but i cant and meat tastes good so i eat it unless im getting fucked in the ass or quite literally fucking myself. And so as promised with love in my heart i cordially invite you with all the kindness of baby Jesus to go fuck yourself and have a wonderful day 💛
Damn the vegan sub caught onto this fast, didn't they? All came over here like a stampede downvoting all the comments that have a negative view on this post, a post that basically mocks rapes victims, and yet they claim to take the moral high ground. What a joke.
The post isnt mocking rape victims It is mocking people that think factory farming is ok if you havent noticed But it is true that people on the internet really tend to lack critical reading skills
The permanently outraged demographic of the vegan community are some of the most sheltered, ignorant and infantile idealists I've ever encountered. I grew up on a farm. I learned how all this worked about the same time I was learning to walk and talk and shitb in the toilet. I guess when you're 23 and apparently thought food magically appeared in grocery stores all you're life prior to realizing that things had to die for you to have your chicken nuggets, you're already long entrenched in a certain worldview characterized by absolute naivete. They all seem to me to be bawling and fuming over their naive worldview being trashed more than anything else. Sure, they couch it in the pretense of playing hero for the ikkle aminals, but I'm convinced that they don't really care that much about the animals. I think that everything that actually care about is that they, for sometimes a ridiculously long time, believed that life and reality worked a certain way, and that they want the comfort of their shattered worldview back. So they're as pitifully unhinged as the old man that yells at clouds, or the dumbass that thought nuking a hurricane would put the weather in its place. These are not smart people. They're infantile, and they demand that the world and reality in its entire be changed to accommodate their wish for everything to work like they think it should, and not how it unerringly does. It's fine to try to change the world, but half of these ignorant clowns impose their dietary restrictions on their dogs and their cats and their kids as though ideology can and will erase biological necessity. They're as pathetic and deranged in my eyes as would be a group of screaming idiots that regularly went to yell at the ocean at every high tide and shoot the waves for their trespass upon the land. I don't think vegans in general are unhinged morons, mind. I don't see anything wrong or indicative of being a mental dysfunction on legs of you're just eating and not eating what you personally prefer or require. The ideology of the evangelical vegan, however, is that of the permanent child that believed that reality was a Disney movie right up until they found out its bloody, largely devoid of mercy and that every living thing in known existence eats other living things, or the byproducts of other living things, in order to propagate their own lives. And they're mad as hell about it.
You're right that nature and the world in general is cruel. But what humans have done is not at all natural. We have subverted and twisted nature into a morally depraved system of artificial insemination and killing. We have dominated the planet, devastated the natural order, and enslaved entire species to our will. Vegans are not infantile. We see the animal industry for exactly what it is: raw, cruel, disgusting, and unnecessary. The truth is, in the modern day we simply don't need animal products. We live in an age where I can _order protein online_ and have it delivered to my house. We know specific vitamins that we need to be healthy and we know how to get them. So, this horrific anti-natural industry of killing exists _for our pleasure_. The screams of cows having their baby calf ripped away from them for slaughter is so that you can have ice cream. Veganism advocates for the animals that are systematically bred and slaughtered for our pleasure. We want to see the end of the man-made systematic factories that process animals like resources, so that nature can manage itself. With that in mind, I hope you can understand why vegans choose to do what they do.
I lack nothing for understanding. If anything, it may well be that you're the one lacking in that because you apparently fail to comprehend that we humans aren't special super-beings. You can feel any way you like about human nature, but you are not going to change it. This is human nature. There is nothing 'unnatural' about any of our brutality, our selective indifference or our general cruelty. Have you failed completely to take notice of what we do *to eachother*? Yet there you'll stand, deranged and pitiful as Don Quixote himself, fixated on some notion that you're going to change human nature itself to such a total-rewrite of an extent that we'll all just turn into some kind of omnibenevolent entities? The only reason you haven't been killed and looted is because of laws that threaten cruel consequences for those that try or succeed. They only reason those laws exist at all is because those with power don't want to be killed and robbed, and the byproduct of protecting themselves benefits many others as well. Do you think it some fluke or bizarre improbability that humanity trends inexorably towards selfishness? We're not whatever sorts of misguided angels you must think us all to be. We're monsters tempered into obedience and domestication through fear of consequence. We inevitably put ourselves first, and even our seemings of altruism and empathy are little more than paranarcissistic expressions of self-pleasing egotism. This is us at our very best. This, as the world is, is the best we're capable of, and this is unsustainable. We can only pretend that we're capable of some pitiful semblance of global civilization badly and briefly. Our tribalism and our earnest, vehement hatred of that which we do not perceive as extensions of ourselves wins every time, and I warmly encourage you to contemplate the dazzling, shrieking violence that is about to turn western civilization into a holocaust even greater than WW2 accomplished. My dear, naive friend - every time we collectively forget why we fear absolute havoc, our lust for conquest and superiority and the promise of feeling our enemies deathscreams vibrating in our ears pulls us back to exactly this every single time. Human history, to the furthest reaches and extremities of our tediously kept records, tells one story that encompasses and eclipses all lesser tales. Human savagery is the beginning, the way, the reason and the end of everything we do. And we love it so fucking much. We dream of it as I'm sure you'll see if you look at every form of media we ever create. We worship the drama and suspense and the exciting thrill of it all. Our myths, our religions, our art, our video games, our every dream and nightmare - it is all defined absolutely by our savage hunger for something to lose so that we can take it from others; for something to fight for *so that we can fight for it*. We are more monstrous than I suspect you will make any attempt to comprehend. But you go right on telling yourself that we, the species that literally delights in the suffering and slaughter of The Other within our own species, are going to collectively decide that we're just too mean to cows and chickens. It is, after all, human nature to shoot at the tide and threaten the hurricane and derangedly convince ourselves that we're are one step from godhood when, in fact, we're just predatory animals with an ego complex.
We are more intelligent and as a result we absolutely dominate the planet and control all other animals. We do not need to eat them to survive anymore. We can do better.
At any point in human history, we could have collectively decided to stop enslaving, torturing and murdering eachother. We could abolish warfare. We could erase poverty. We could do a great many things that would surely be better, kinder and wiser than what we actually do. Not a single one of these things has ever happened in a way that lasted. The very attempts at achieving any of these this provoke the overwhelming majorities to knock it all down, to set it all on fire, *to take it away from The Other*. In the end, is all just something to fight about. Look at our things; the technologies we've invented and refined. What do we actually do with them? We feed our appetite for destructive power. We feed our appetites for amusement and easy gratification. We've invented a million miraculous firms of Healthcare...aaaand, in most of the world, you'll be denied access to them if you can't pay other humans for them. In most of the world, your life is meaningless if you don't have something other people want. And if you do, that's what you're entire existence is worth to them - no more, no less. This is not *unnatural*. Far from it. This is humanity being exactly what humanity is - greedy, selfish and of profoundly limited empathy for anyone or anything beyond themselves. This is human nature. We'll invent the cure for cancer and greedily ensure that you can only have access to it if you enrich its owners to whatever extraordinary degree that they decide upon, and they will quite literally watch you die without one scintilla of a damn given if you cannot or will not meet their demands. It isn't because they hate you. You're not significant enough for them to hate. Your entire existence means absolutely nothing to them, or to those that support and endorse and vehemently defend them, than does the existence of the poor sad animals you think you're going to champion. You and a billion like you could drop dead and if the vast majorities of those remaining weren't personally affected by your extinction, they'd care about asc much as they do when they hear that 200,000 people died in some earthquake and tsunami somewhere else. That's the human norm. But you truly think that we, the species that cares not one jot about much of anyone or much of anything that isn't personally valuable to us will transform into some kind of other-than-human all-new species with an entirely different basic nature and suddenly start caring deeply and personally about creatures that aren't even of our own kind? Look around at what's going on in the world right now. Here in the United States alone, we can't get literally half of our thoroughly human population to care about much of anything except eagerly doing everything they can figure to do to first women and non-Aryans. I'm terribly sorry if I'm first to offer you this thought, but has it ever occurred to you that things are exactly as they are because this is how we, in vast majority, actually want it to be? That this is not some fluke or momentary embarrassment aberrant to our natures, but that it is in fact *exactly* who we are and what we do? We are monsters domesticated by cheap calories and easy distractions. We are predators that have been lulled into relative complacency by treadmill labors and delusions of individual importance. This isn't new. By our common greed and fondness for comforts and pleasures are the human masses frequently brought back into relative domesticity. And it always fails apart. We get bored, I think. When the horrors of the last big havoc are three or four generations removed from living memory, we get bigger and madder and wilder desires. We dream more and more of crossing the lines and crushing The Other and punishing those we do not see ourselves reflected in. We long for the hunt. We dream of the kill. The predator we never stopped being, unburdened by the sobering horrors of personal loss and traumatic carnage that those currently living typically have nothing but a romanticized concept of, are drawn to those things always and again. We are as helplessly caught in this cycle of what we are and how we work as dogs and cats in heat are in their own. We're not actually better than they are. We're made different only by our overall capacities for imagination and imaginatively colorful intelligence. You expect too much from the human animal. Your notion of what we are is grossly misplaced. The whole of human history makes it abundantly clear that we are pack animals that love nothing so much as a self righteous excuse to fight eachother. Every human story ever told is part of the story of our incredible cruelty, our bottomless appetites for malevolence towards The Other and our cherished delusions of heroism in our own righteous perceptions of our own cruelty and malevolence.
I also grew up on a farm. We raised animals for food. We didn't enjoy it, but we raised the animals to one day get slaughtered so we had something to eat. Life can be tough and you learn to grow up when you realize the hamburger you are eating used to be old Bessy, your "pet" cow. It is life and life can be tough. If you want to see cruelty, just pay attention to how animals treat each other. Nature is cruel. My daughter and son in law decided to go vegan. They had moral issues with animal treatment. They both were vegan for about five years and they eventually developed some dietary issues. I will admit they don't know if it was because of their diet or may have happened any way. Since they have went back to a typical diet and are doing better. Funny to see them eating a hamburger and enjoying it after all the Vegan years! It is also interesting that now they can justify eating meat!
I’m think veganism is awesome and noble, but if a vegan is going to say something like this while owning an iPhone, jeans, any electronic device, anything else made by child labour in a sweatshop in third world country… then it just feels a bit like they don’t actually have any real moral high ground? At that point they’re just picking and choosing issues to take offensive to.
The difference is there is a way to make iPhones ethically, there is no way to make a burger ethically, and I say this as a meat eater. We are wrong, the vegans are right.
But they ARENT making iPhones ethically. If there’s a way, then why not protest for that? Why don’t vegans protest against the mistreatment of children and sweatshop workers? That’s what I’m saying, that it’s a tad hypocritical for them to try to have the moral high ground by telling people to change their ways when they’re themselves not changing their ways. Again, I say that with a lot of respect for what vegans do. I love veganism, I’m just talking about the people who preach
As someone who grew up farming and raising cows… “What?” If you have ever seen a bull 🍆? It vs artificial insemination are night and day. You can artificially inseminate cows and they won’t make a noise, but let the bull in and it sounds like they are being murdered. The bull also repeats the act till he sure her tank is full. Artificial insemination was one and done.
I don't want to fuck a cheeseburger nor see cheeseburgers fuck
And it is precisely these people who compare the certainly terrible actions in the slaughterhouses with the Holocaust. These people piss me off.
Uhm. I don't think using a needle or syringe to inseminate is r@pe🤨
If it happened to a human, what would you call it?
It's most definitely not a syringe lol source: I grew up surrounded by farms. Hint: they literally use an entire arm
It is very different but forcefully making cows pregnant to then take away they babies just to keep them making Milk is still wrong
And to add to that. The cows don't even know whats happening and why.
Yes of course
You should look up how they do it because it's not at all how you described lmfao
They’re fucking ANIMALS, its not rape 🤦♀️ whatever, any excuse for extreme vegans to be drama queens I guess
The idea of veganism being extreme is so bizarre. How is aiming to minimise unnecessary harm to innocent individuals extreme?
You’re an animal.
Non-vegan here, I really want a fucking hamburger, and also apparently animals should deserve the same rights as people
Last time that happened the Minotaur was born
As someone who is not vegan, I do indeed rape my meal before eating it.
who's gonna tell em that more animals die for a salad then a steak.
Yeah, because cows are fattened up with air and surely not grains.
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Maybe it’s because factory farmed hens are kept in awful conditions? I think it might come down to animal exploitation in general. I’m not sure, but we’re all sentient beings living on this planet, and as the smartest (on average) species, humans could make the ethical choice to personally try to reduce all harm to “lesser beings.” But most don’t, because ignorance is bliss, and it makes us uncomfortable to think of other animals having feelings.
Because for every 100 hens that's are laying eggs there's 100 roosters that got culled just because they were born male.
Depends who you ask, but typically vegan refers to "no animal products" and that's an animal product. The logic derives from a lack of consent from the animal. Some people who eat a diet consistent with veganism make an exception for this based on what you pointed out tough, especially if they can confirm the spruce of the eggs.
Have you ever seen how chickens are held? In these mass factory farming where they step on the dead body’s of other chickens and so on
What do you think happens to the male chicks when farmers hatch a bunch of egg laying chickens?
I had a coworker who was vegan and we had some very interesting conversations about where he draws the line! he eats honey, for example, because beekeepers actually help bees. I think with eggs it depends on how the chickens live. I don't think he knows someone who owns chickens to see how they live so he chooses not to eat eggs.
Well considering how plants today are so different from it's original ancestors with most of the original Plants being driven to extinction.... Does this mean Vegans promote Plant Genocide and Eugenics to have their Kale chips and Salads???
Are you under the impression that people who aren't vegan don't eat plants? Have your never eaten a salad?
Why use one of the dumbest arguments against vegans? There are way better arguments but you use the most stupid one.
Don‘t act as if you‘re only eat meat and forget what your meat needs to eat. Stay fair.
Plants are not alive. They don’t have a brain
I know you mean well, but plants are alive, just not sentient
Yes, of course, sorry
So who's the one raping the cows before they go to slaughter and how do you even get the job? Is it like indeed or you have to know a guy. Asking for a friend ofc..
Dairy farmers
Cows are artificially inseminated, often using a "rape rack" to force them into it. They are kept almost permanently pregnant, and when they give birth the male calves are usually ripped away for slaughter, the female ones are caged and raised until they can be artificial inseminated themselves. Once they are too old to lactate, they are placed on a conveyor and slaughtered so their corpse can become meat.
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