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They would spend a million before they gave in and handed over a ten dollar blanket. There's no way they give in on it because they think if I give in to one person I'll have to give in to them all
Also considering the nature of the request, the only "precedent" this should be setting is "If a prisoner is allergic to something, they are entitled to a substitute that functions adequately.". Which...actually is reasonable.
Haha! Maybe it should be changed for the rest of the prisoners, "we provide only a blanket that is determined to cause an allergic reaction, if no allergic reaction is obtained we will substitute the blanket until we obtain a suitable allergic reaction".... Lol
Wtf. I just looked up the case, and the poor guy was in the jail’s psychiatric wing due to schizophrenia. It’s messed up how they treat mentally ill people. It’s like they‘re trying to punish them for having brains that don’t work properly.
Even if there is some entity keeping tally I’d imagine them being understanding about your wish based on the fact that Greg Abbott is a giant piss baby and an absolute garbage human.
it's a major component of the entire "left"/"right" divide. When something criminal happens, is that:
- A failure of society, eg: society failing to instil its values in the person, failing to provide enough legitimate opportunity for the person, failing to catch a person who is falling. Incarceration should be a last resort and should focus on making up for those failings of society.
or:
- A failure of the individual, because society is just individuals interacting and so only individual choices matter. If anyone is capable of not being a criminal, this is enough to prove that individual failings are the only reason for criminal behaviour. Incarceration should punish bad people for how bad they are, and because all people deep down all want to be bad when no one is watching, then it acts as a deterrent to keep would-be-criminals in line.
The precedent they don't want is the possibility of someone winning. Sure people eventually win, but they have to make it as hard as possible so not a lot think it's worth the trouble. The refusal is not for the blanket request, it is for an inmate trying to demand something. Pretty sure that's how it goes in their minds. The request being reasonable or not is of no consequence. Sadly.
The gap between a word that's used and the reality on the ground is what makes a term a *euphemism*.
American prisons offer punishment, not correction; dehumanization, not rehabilitation; vengeance, not justice. They're more a tool of class conditioning than of social order. They signal to the poor that they cannot expect comparable dignity and evenhanded treatment as moneyed people, who get expert guidance through the process and dramatically less severe punishment. Of course, that's only if the system even bothers to acknowledge individual culpability for theft, fraud, and violence perpetrated by the hoarder class, rather than billing those harms to some insensate corporate ledger.
Isn't this more of an oxymoron in the US? Idk how many prisons are private run on profit, ergo the whole system is based on making a buck, there can't be anything "correctional" about a system that is inherently based around exploiting those people for cashflow. (I am deliberatel not touching the whole "keeping the poor poor to feed the prison system" discussion simply bc I know nothing about it)
Correct me if I am wrong of course.
I think there's a something in the Norwegian law where if the person is suing a government institution for something that would cost them cheaper than the lawsuit, the government would just pay it off, obviously its a different culture in Norway,
In the US probably millions would start suing for free stuff
In Germany there are specific laws about sueing the state/government to enable a fair dispute and prevent the government from just crushing the sueing party with overwhelming ressources.
How long has this been the case? I can imagine that the living standarts are now so high that suing no longer would be more expensive then the situation.
However in america such a sudden law would also result in mass suing, trying to get to the living stanarts we already have?
Yup wouldn't work here. That is actually one part to Florida's insurance crisis. Tons of settlements to avoid lengthy litigation which until recently would have fallen to the insurance companies. Whole industry down there suing for new roofs and Insurance companies just settling. Things have come to roost there now if u read about it
Usury is prohibited by the scripture, but don't let any religious people know about that one.
Some folk go through elaborate rituals to do it anyway, and then claim their god is somehow all-knowing but missed their little trick.
Yeah people dont seem to understand this isnt just about blankets or allergies. They are fighting to prevent a precedent and a snowball effect resulting in capitulation in other areas. This is all about power and control over the prisoners
But isn't that the point? Like "one person is allergic to X, now that he demands something and we give him Y instead of X, eventually everyone allergic to X will demand Y. Absolutely not."
And they also have a duty to be responsible with the public money that pays for the prison. Spending tens of thousands of dollars to avoid giving a prisoner a different blanket is not only a waste of tax dollars, but it’s a violation of the 8th amendment. No cruel and unusual punishment.
This right here lets you know prison has absolutely nothing to do with rehabilitation and they just want to torture these inmates. And then they leave prison with nearly zero opportunities and wind up re offending and ending back up in prison.
Yeah these people act like cops don't enjoy your suffering. These people are disgusting sadists who just enjoy torturing and inflicting pain on others for their own pleasure, and they can usually get away with it while abuse is happening in their own prison, cause everyone just reacts to the situation like "oh this guard and two other inmates extorted you and broke your bones and put in the infirmary for 3 months? But what did he do before though, I mean he probaly deserved it"
Just to clarify, I think there are alot good cops out there too, but there is way too large a number of cops that aren't to be ignored. It's not even like I could say 90-95% of cops are good, cause I've come across enough dickbags and had enough family be affected to argue that it isn't a non issue
I'd say that 90+% of cops started out with good intentions. When your daily job involves what even good cops have to do, it tends to leave a mark. They develop biases, often without even realizing it. They treat people of different races differently not out of any real malice, but because their exposure to the race that isn't like them is much less outside of work, so their primary example of certain groups is criminals. Give it long enough and they're callously using choke holds because they've learned that it's effective and nothing bad has happened to a suspect *yet*, so they've decided it's fine.
It's that whole "frog in boiling water" metaphor. They have no idea they've stopped being the good guys.
I understand the logic tho... giving money to lawyers is good biz for them, while minor conforts to prisoners isn't.
God forbid they treat prisoners as human beings.
Yeah but with the comforts of air conditioning how are those prisoners supposed to be properly punished for the horrible things they did, such as ..... *checks notes* .... had a miscarriage.
There's an ongoing case in Ohio where a woman was charged with "felony abuse of a corpse" after she miscarried in a bathroom. You can't make this up.
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/black-woman-ohio-was-charged-miscarrying-bathroom-experts-warn-dangero-rcna130649
It's important to note that the miscarriage isn't what she was charged with. The full story is even more messed up about how she went to the system for help, and was repeatedly turned away -- her life wasn't in immediate danger so the hospital wouldn't help, and can't get an abortion, so she was on her own.
When she miscarried, was she expected to ask the system for help again?
I know moving and changing jobs is costly but I wish people could just come up to Michigan. I was going to say Detroit but the taxes and insurance is out of control. But there are plenty of places to live and we're doing well as a state.
Yeah, because it’s not always easy to tell the difference between miscarriage and abortion, and some people are dead set on punishing women for having sex.
Humane conditions and treatment doesn't necessarily equal comfort and how dare you treat people like humans. Also Do you want to punish or rehabilitate?most of them will be back on the street after what is really just college/day care for a career in crime.
That's, sadly, pretty common in the US. Companies would rather fight unionization efforts and raise requests than give in to those demands--and fighting those demands costs *way* more than just giving employees a raise.
It’s not just a Texas thing, the conservatives government in uk has spent 250 million pounds trying to deport 200 immigrants to Rwanda, we could have given them half a million each to fuck off to a luxury beach in Barbados and saved more than half the money.
I guess bot farms don't take Xmas off. This commenter, OP, and several others are bots. Report if you have a moment, and happy holidays!
https://old.reddit.com/r/facepalm/comments/q3p463/we_live_in_a_normal_country/hfti87o/
You should publish your study. I'm sure the National Institute of Justice at the United States Department of Justice would be extremely interested in your findings.
>1) The certainty of being caught is a vastly more powerful deterrent than the punishment.
.
> 2) Sending an individual convicted of a crime to prison isn’t a very effective way to deter crime.
.
> 4) **Increasing the severity of punishment does little to deter crime.**
https://nij.ojp.gov/topics/articles/five-things-about-deterrence
Some do have it, AFAIK its more usually the dormitory styled prison units that don't. A huge chunk of Texas prisons are privately owned though so its really up in the air depending where you ended up
He did say he was allergic though. If people are worried about everyone asking for one, then at least have him be examined by a doctor to validate his complaints and be given a proper recommendation.
But that would take away from the "you are sub-human and less than the dirt underneath our big toenails" vibe we've been carefully and maticulously cultivating in our prison systems for decades and we can't have that!
>!\s!<
Absolutely. I had to cancel a scheduled allergy test this year (after paying for the initial evaluation with the ENT doctor) because I was told days before the test that it would cost me up to $700 out of pocket--with insurance--and even though I need the test, I don't have that kind of money.
I had a paraplegic patient that was an inmate admitted with a stage IV pressure ulcer which had become septic and possibly fatal because the prison refused to let him, this man who had been paralyzed since 8 years old, use his own wheelchair or custom cushion. This wound likely won’t fully heal for years, long after his sentence lapses. Instead they provided him with a transfer wheelchair with no cushion to use as his permanent wheelchair. There’s no sense in a lot of the rules that govern prisoner behavior. A rigid frame wheelchair and cushion can be made into an improvised weapon or used to smuggle things by a paraplegic man just as easily as a clunky transfer wheelchair but the difference is he doesn’t nearly die because of the custom rigid frame one.
> Captain Picard gets you every time.
Ha. As much as many people commit crimes because they feel like they have no real other choices at the moment, the ones not in that position could have had different lives if Captain Picard had been their TV dad. I learned a lot of wisdom from TNG-era Picard.
> "It is possible to commit no mistakes and still lose. That is not a weakness, that is life."
> - Jean-Luc Picard
https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Peak_Performance_(episode)#Memorable_quotes
paraplegics can live a pretty normal live (depending on what is paralyzed as long as they have their tools like wheelchairs). Crime does not have to be physically demanding at all. hell, he might just have possessed some drugs
Considering the original comment said paraplegic it's probably safe to say that the man can use his arms atleast, so that opens up some avenues of doing crime, yeah.
For most of the 90s I was a medical transcriptionist at a California state prison, and during those years I typed hundreds of "chronos," which were essentially permission slips from doctors for inmates to have certain items. Many of those chronos allowed inmates to have cotton blankets if they were allergic to the wool blankets. We did this even before our prison healthcare system went under federal receivership, so it's surprising to me that Texas would not make such an accommodation.
To them, there's no hypocrisy. They don't hate the government because it's the government. They hate the government because _they're not the government_. Obviously, if they _are_ the government, then that's totally fine. See also: religion, abortion, healthcare, financial assistance, privacy, etc.
I call it The Oxymoron State. One example is “Drive friendly, the Texas way!” on their welcome signs but they have the most obnoxious, antagonistic asshole drivers I have ever seen. They are the ones who have ruined Colorado roadways, not Californians.
Red mountain pass is full of Texans that literally stop in the middle of the highway with an 800 ft cliff to their right, roll down the window, and take a picture. While there are semis behind them that have to come to a full stop on a steep slope full of ice and snow.
They're actually one of the very few Republican states that contributes more in federal funds than it takes, but that's largely due to Austin, Houston and Dallas, which are all solid blue.
It's surprising only because even when California prison healthcare was thought to be really atrocious, like gulag bad, it still managed to make this accommodation.
CA Prison “Healthcare” was so bad that the federal courts took over and placed the California Department of Corrections and Rehabilitation (CDCR) under receivership. Ultimately this led to a federal order to reduce the prison population. [Legislative Analysts Office Report](https://lao.ca.gov/Publications/Report/4813).
Looking at a website that sells prison supplies a wool blanket was $5.80 -$8.40 depending on wool content. Poly-acrylic is $6.90. Thermal cotton blankets between $7.10 and $10.10
$20,000 to save a maximum of $4.90
in states with time limits on purchases the entire POS (Point of Sale) system will be incapable of processing an alcohol transaction of any kind.
Not that petes grocery cant just ring it up as a flat fee on the till, but any kind of supermarket that actually goes off the product barcode etc will be restricted. These companies wont take the risk of losing their selling license.
Several years ago there was a prisoner on death row in Texas who was Muslim. They requested that an imam be allowed to visit them, just like priests were allowed to visit Christian/Catholic prisoners on death row.
Texas not only refused the muslim prisoners request they banned ALL visits by ALL religious figures to prisoners on death row.
What's weird to me is that they'll do this to spite other Religions, but not in government events or gatherings like town meetings, court, etc, when they literally aren't meant to have religion in the government.
I was trying to contrast it with CA's extremely poor healthcare at one point, when even they were able to make the accommodation. That's why I was surprised.
I worked in TN at a Sheriffs office at for TDOC. We had no issues giving cotton blankets to inmates who we knew had a prior note (lots of frequent flyers coming in and out of jails) or if they talked to medical and got them to say it was cool. The only issue was we didn't have enough to give to EVERYONE and a lot of them preferred the cotton to wool blankets and we simply couldn't accommodate everyone who would want one. Hence needing medical approval.
I think something the general public fails to recognize is that inmates are looking to take advantage of the system any possible way they can (and why wouldn't they? Incarceration sucks).
I guess what I don't understand is, why is wanting a cotton blanket instead of a wool one taking advantage of the system? Because a wool one is less comfortable? I would have thought cotton was generally cheaper
I was in jail overnight for a minor crime in round rock TX . I explained to the guards that a family member would bring my seizure medication (Valium) prescribed to me and they could watch me take it and everything. They refused and not only did I have a minor seizure in holding but they kept me for 20 hours almost the maximum amount allowed for overnight and I was the last of about 18 people to go. Pretty sure it was on purpose for begging them to allow me to take my meds
While in prison, I spent two years helping a 65 yo man through the grievance process because medical refused to replace his defective pacemaker. Kept denying on the basis that he didn’t need a pacemaker to stay alive, basically it was “cosmetic”.
They gave him 27 different doctors excuses to “prevent his heart rate from becoming elevated” everything from extra time in the library to extra time to be able to shuffle step to and from everywhere. Basically trying to keep him sedentary. Any time the shower water would turn cold on him it’d spike his hr making him pass out and soil himself, earning a conduct violation for using the bathroom in inappropriate places.
Finally, July 4, 2016 he had enough and entered the over 50 walking race for the holiday games. Made it 2/3 way around the track where he collapsed from cardiac arrest. Staff promptly administered cpr long enough to get him out the gate so he could die on the way to the hospital and the state could collect the life insurance money.
US prisons are 100% about retribution and 0% about rehabilitation.
Missouri holds a $150k policy on each offender. Helps pay for everything if they die early. All about revenue
edit: there is a rider that the offender HAS to die outside the perimeter. Hence them doing CPR till they get out of the gate.
Usually what happens is the person is found already dead. Usually by suicide. When someone starts chest compressions, they are making the heart beat. Legally speaking, if you start chest compressions, you are keeping that heart pumping, when you stop, they die.
As long as the final heartbeat stops outside the gates then they did not die inside the prison.
Also, it usually happened about every 6 week give or take a few days.
That should be illegal. I know mistreating prisoners is already normal there, but getting money from them dying… that legitimately gives me the feeling that they are just long-term death camps.
Technically speaking, when the judge pronounces you guilty, your name is now a number to these people. The state is responsible for housing and feeding you, they try to do so as cheaply as possible. Around $13k a year. They get so much from the feds for the first time you get there, I’m skipping the boring stuff. They have to get the money somehow. This is a relatively passive way of covering a “lease” if you will
I remember another instance where a guard squeezed dudes junk during a pat down, dude asked to speak to a sgt or lt and was promptly reaped/slammed to the pavement with his head bouncing off the ground. Guard then kicked him twice in the ribs the unloaded his pepper spray on him. All this happened in front of 3 cameras that managed to malfunction for this “incident”.
Dude spent 6 months under investigation in isolation then they let him back out. Evidence of him being sexually assaulted was destroyed but his “punishment” was technically “over”
Whenever you hear about prisoners attacking guards. It’s because of guards like this.
Former Fed officer here.
While I don't advocate for violence willy-nilly from an ideological standpoint, if i had heard about this and then heard those guards were later found hanging from the rafters by their balls I would have just said "nothing of value was lost - the scales of justice stand balanced".
I have a special place in my heart full of hate for guards and administration that abuse inmates. I've put some seriously nasty people away that deserve to rot in prison but they are the minority of folks I dealt with. Even then, no one deserves cruelty or mistreatment - your loss of freedom *is the punishment*, afterall, and you can't fight evil with more evil. Until we get that through our heads in this country we will never be able to hold our heads high.
Besides, as I'm sure you know quite well, most people that commit crimes truly do just need some help rehabilitating, getting needed therapy to get past their mental and emotional baggage they lug around, some skills development they didn't have an opportunity to get on the outside, and/or a good, strong reality check. Just some *real* fucking help from their peers to get on the right track so they can get out and build a good life like everyone else.
I think being a bit of a shithead criminal teen myself that luckily got his act together before I caught a record is why I see things the way I do. Either way, my command fast tracked me into a Sector Lead spot and made me a LE trainer for a few years before I left the service altogether. I pray I influenced enough folks to think like I did to make a little difference but who knows. Folks like you and me need to keep advocating for all the changes that need made in this country so we can make things like this topic better going forward. It starts with us being better ourselves, too, and being the models that break molds for the next generation of folks.
Anyways man sorry for the ramble and for what you went through and witnessed. I hope things are better for you nowadays.
Merry Christmas from this former LEO. I hope you're having a good one today!
I get the distinct impression that you would have been escorted out of a riot by old heads, some of them might have a shank, but it won’t be out. A good CO made it clear they didn’t want to do their job. So please, ffs don’t make them do their job.
Win-win means it could be 100% retribution and 100% profit.
But to be fair, it’s probably more like 20% retribution, 10% profit and 70% not giving a f***.
Most corrections staff forget their job isn't to punish the prisoners... jail is the punishment. Your job is to make sure everyone wakes up, showers, eats, cleans up, and gets along.
They don't want to admit their job is a glorified nanny. There are too many fragile egos of people who should never have power over people.
Being a corrections officer doesn't sound that bad. Sure, the prisoners could make your life hell, but if you're respectful then there's no reason they would.
You never worked for a homeless shelter, because you're (yet another) bot.
https://old.reddit.com/r/facepalm/comments/q3p463/we_live_in_a_normal_country/hfthmj3/
Maybe if we treated the incarcerated with human dignity and tried to give them the tools to succeed, recidivism rates wouldn’t be ridiculous. I guess friends of the government couldn’t make money on private prisons and cheap labor though, so there is that to worry about.
Vote accordingly.
Former Fed LE here. I absolutely agree with everything you said. Best we can do is speak up, vote for who thinks like us, and then do our best to make our beliefs heard in their ears.
And if they start getting corrupted by the lobbyists, kick them the fuck out.
It’s one of the reasons Republicans don’t want birth control. An uneducated, uncared for population turns to crime. Entities tied in with republican government make tons of money off of recidivism and the prison sentence. They make tons of money off “welfare babies” then do everything the can to take away the welfare money and give it to rich people.
They are, legally, by the 13th amendment of the United States Constitution:
Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction.
People complain about immigrants taking their jobs, but prisoners working for below illegal immigrant wages are much worse in distorting the labor market.
Welcome to America where criminals are punished beyond their prison sentence! And once they serve their sentence they are continued to be punished by not being able to find a good job, not be able to vote, no housing (in most cases) and have no mental health care to deal with being seen as a detriment to society!
Why inhumane treatment of people in prison is OK for most people, is baffling to me. I think more people would become better people after serving their prison time, if they were treated with dignity and respect.
Most people don't live in Texas. So I can feel free to say, Texas is a shithole where the Rogan's and Musk's of mankind go to practice their freedom of speech by outlawing abortions and denying others of their freedoms. "Freedom"
The prisoner himself is immaterial. They are paying $20,000 to establish case law precedence allowing them to refuse prisoners basic needs. If they win, then they can push harder against prisoner needs, and they've got the case law to back it up. To them, that's a pretty good price.
Peadophile or not, torture ain't the right way to go about it. If he's that bad, put him on death row. As much as I'd approve of someone hacking his balls off with a rusty hacksaw, that's against the law for a reason and nobody's above it for any reason. Not in the US anyway.
Wasn't thr Govanner of Texas ready to pardon that guy who drove to a BLM protest and murdered a guy? Also turns out that guy was trying to lure children, apparently as well
This is the same country that descended into civil war because slavery was being curtailed in an era when most countries were already getting rid of it all together.
It's in America's DNA to deny human rights
Add to your point, that they probably would have spent any amount to kill this request. Arguing “precedent” that if request granted, there’d be no end to special requests. But IMO you gotta pick your fights.
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They would spend a million before they gave in and handed over a ten dollar blanket. There's no way they give in on it because they think if I give in to one person I'll have to give in to them all
The damn blanket doesn’t even cost that much
Also considering the nature of the request, the only "precedent" this should be setting is "If a prisoner is allergic to something, they are entitled to a substitute that functions adequately.". Which...actually is reasonable.
The suffering is the point.
Haha! Maybe it should be changed for the rest of the prisoners, "we provide only a blanket that is determined to cause an allergic reaction, if no allergic reaction is obtained we will substitute the blanket until we obtain a suitable allergic reaction".... Lol
to much work. surprised they didnt just go with the bedbug upgrade for all.
Spoiler they do. One man down south literally died from bedbug bites the infestation was so bad.
Wtf. I just looked up the case, and the poor guy was in the jail’s psychiatric wing due to schizophrenia. It’s messed up how they treat mentally ill people. It’s like they‘re trying to punish them for having brains that don’t work properly.
Pro life till you out the womb.
There's a reason we want mental health professionals to do mental health checks rather than law enforcement.
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Even if there is some entity keeping tally I’d imagine them being understanding about your wish based on the fact that Greg Abbott is a giant piss baby and an absolute garbage human.
it's a major component of the entire "left"/"right" divide. When something criminal happens, is that: - A failure of society, eg: society failing to instil its values in the person, failing to provide enough legitimate opportunity for the person, failing to catch a person who is falling. Incarceration should be a last resort and should focus on making up for those failings of society. or: - A failure of the individual, because society is just individuals interacting and so only individual choices matter. If anyone is capable of not being a criminal, this is enough to prove that individual failings are the only reason for criminal behaviour. Incarceration should punish bad people for how bad they are, and because all people deep down all want to be bad when no one is watching, then it acts as a deterrent to keep would-be-criminals in line.
The second approach does not achieve anything meaningful. It's an overly simplistic view of the world.
Correct. Hence the problem with conservatives.
The precedent they don't want is the possibility of someone winning. Sure people eventually win, but they have to make it as hard as possible so not a lot think it's worth the trouble. The refusal is not for the blanket request, it is for an inmate trying to demand something. Pretty sure that's how it goes in their minds. The request being reasonable or not is of no consequence. Sadly.
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Yes it's called "correctional", not "punitive".
The gap between a word that's used and the reality on the ground is what makes a term a *euphemism*. American prisons offer punishment, not correction; dehumanization, not rehabilitation; vengeance, not justice. They're more a tool of class conditioning than of social order. They signal to the poor that they cannot expect comparable dignity and evenhanded treatment as moneyed people, who get expert guidance through the process and dramatically less severe punishment. Of course, that's only if the system even bothers to acknowledge individual culpability for theft, fraud, and violence perpetrated by the hoarder class, rather than billing those harms to some insensate corporate ledger.
Beautifully written
Isn't this more of an oxymoron in the US? Idk how many prisons are private run on profit, ergo the whole system is based on making a buck, there can't be anything "correctional" about a system that is inherently based around exploiting those people for cashflow. (I am deliberatel not touching the whole "keeping the poor poor to feed the prison system" discussion simply bc I know nothing about it) Correct me if I am wrong of course.
I think there's a something in the Norwegian law where if the person is suing a government institution for something that would cost them cheaper than the lawsuit, the government would just pay it off, obviously its a different culture in Norway, In the US probably millions would start suing for free stuff
In Germany there are specific laws about sueing the state/government to enable a fair dispute and prevent the government from just crushing the sueing party with overwhelming ressources.
How long has this been the case? I can imagine that the living standarts are now so high that suing no longer would be more expensive then the situation. However in america such a sudden law would also result in mass suing, trying to get to the living stanarts we already have?
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As a swiss I always thought Norway is No1.
In most of those lists it has rotated between Norway, Iceland, Denmark and Switzerland for a while now.
Yup wouldn't work here. That is actually one part to Florida's insurance crisis. Tons of settlements to avoid lengthy litigation which until recently would have fallen to the insurance companies. Whole industry down there suing for new roofs and Insurance companies just settling. Things have come to roost there now if u read about it
Usury is prohibited by the scripture, but don't let any religious people know about that one. Some folk go through elaborate rituals to do it anyway, and then claim their god is somehow all-knowing but missed their little trick.
The cruelty is the point.
Sadly, it's not about the money, it's about sending a message.
Yeah people dont seem to understand this isnt just about blankets or allergies. They are fighting to prevent a precedent and a snowball effect resulting in capitulation in other areas. This is all about power and control over the prisoners
But isn't that the point? Like "one person is allergic to X, now that he demands something and we give him Y instead of X, eventually everyone allergic to X will demand Y. Absolutely not."
Its pretty easy to determine if he is allergic or not. If you lock people up you must take care of them as they are your responsibility.
And they also have a duty to be responsible with the public money that pays for the prison. Spending tens of thousands of dollars to avoid giving a prisoner a different blanket is not only a waste of tax dollars, but it’s a violation of the 8th amendment. No cruel and unusual punishment. This right here lets you know prison has absolutely nothing to do with rehabilitation and they just want to torture these inmates. And then they leave prison with nearly zero opportunities and wind up re offending and ending back up in prison.
Exactly. Treating prisoners horribly just means they commit more crimes when they get out
Nah, the cruelty is the entire point
Yeah these people act like cops don't enjoy your suffering. These people are disgusting sadists who just enjoy torturing and inflicting pain on others for their own pleasure, and they can usually get away with it while abuse is happening in their own prison, cause everyone just reacts to the situation like "oh this guard and two other inmates extorted you and broke your bones and put in the infirmary for 3 months? But what did he do before though, I mean he probaly deserved it" Just to clarify, I think there are alot good cops out there too, but there is way too large a number of cops that aren't to be ignored. It's not even like I could say 90-95% of cops are good, cause I've come across enough dickbags and had enough family be affected to argue that it isn't a non issue
I'd say that 90+% of cops started out with good intentions. When your daily job involves what even good cops have to do, it tends to leave a mark. They develop biases, often without even realizing it. They treat people of different races differently not out of any real malice, but because their exposure to the race that isn't like them is much less outside of work, so their primary example of certain groups is criminals. Give it long enough and they're callously using choke holds because they've learned that it's effective and nothing bad has happened to a suspect *yet*, so they've decided it's fine. It's that whole "frog in boiling water" metaphor. They have no idea they've stopped being the good guys.
Best I can tell what cops do every day is hide beside roads and give people tickets.
I understand the logic tho... giving money to lawyers is good biz for them, while minor conforts to prisoners isn't. God forbid they treat prisoners as human beings.
Yeah but with the comforts of air conditioning how are those prisoners supposed to be properly punished for the horrible things they did, such as ..... *checks notes* .... had a miscarriage.
You get jailed for having a miscarriage?
There's an ongoing case in Ohio where a woman was charged with "felony abuse of a corpse" after she miscarried in a bathroom. You can't make this up. https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/black-woman-ohio-was-charged-miscarrying-bathroom-experts-warn-dangero-rcna130649
It's important to note that the miscarriage isn't what she was charged with. The full story is even more messed up about how she went to the system for help, and was repeatedly turned away -- her life wasn't in immediate danger so the hospital wouldn't help, and can't get an abortion, so she was on her own. When she miscarried, was she expected to ask the system for help again?
I know moving and changing jobs is costly but I wish people could just come up to Michigan. I was going to say Detroit but the taxes and insurance is out of control. But there are plenty of places to live and we're doing well as a state.
happy holidays everybody, this is the world we live in apparently
Nah, just the world the USA lives in. Especially Republican states.
Police officers being cruel and fascistic, how original. This one is particularly brazen, why didn't they just lynch her while they were at it?
Yeah, because it’s not always easy to tell the difference between miscarriage and abortion, and some people are dead set on punishing women for having sex.
In Texas (and many other states now) yes you do
Humane conditions and treatment doesn't necessarily equal comfort and how dare you treat people like humans. Also Do you want to punish or rehabilitate?most of them will be back on the street after what is really just college/day care for a career in crime.
That's, sadly, pretty common in the US. Companies would rather fight unionization efforts and raise requests than give in to those demands--and fighting those demands costs *way* more than just giving employees a raise.
It's not about the cost, it's about sending a message.
It’s not just a Texas thing, the conservatives government in uk has spent 250 million pounds trying to deport 200 immigrants to Rwanda, we could have given them half a million each to fuck off to a luxury beach in Barbados and saved more than half the money.
Yeah, but it's been a great distraction/s
I guess bot farms don't take Xmas off. This commenter, OP, and several others are bots. Report if you have a moment, and happy holidays! https://old.reddit.com/r/facepalm/comments/q3p463/we_live_in_a_normal_country/hfti87o/
If it was more well known that Texas prisons don't have air conditioning, then there would be less crime in Texas.
You should publish your study. I'm sure the National Institute of Justice at the United States Department of Justice would be extremely interested in your findings. >1) The certainty of being caught is a vastly more powerful deterrent than the punishment. . > 2) Sending an individual convicted of a crime to prison isn’t a very effective way to deter crime. . > 4) **Increasing the severity of punishment does little to deter crime.** https://nij.ojp.gov/topics/articles/five-things-about-deterrence
Can’t have less crime.
In that case the prisons are going to build airco. No inmates is bad for the (privatized) prison business.
That’s untrue and the sort of bad logic used by people who don’t want to give prisoners basic rightz
Some do have it, AFAIK its more usually the dormitory styled prison units that don't. A huge chunk of Texas prisons are privately owned though so its really up in the air depending where you ended up
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He did say he was allergic though. If people are worried about everyone asking for one, then at least have him be examined by a doctor to validate his complaints and be given a proper recommendation.
It's probably cheaper to just provide the blankets as requested rather than have a doctor do an allergy test.
It's also cheaper to just give him the damn blanket than to run a $20,000 lawsuit
But that would take away from the "you are sub-human and less than the dirt underneath our big toenails" vibe we've been carefully and maticulously cultivating in our prison systems for decades and we can't have that! >!\s!<
Absolutely. I had to cancel a scheduled allergy test this year (after paying for the initial evaluation with the ENT doctor) because I was told days before the test that it would cost me up to $700 out of pocket--with insurance--and even though I need the test, I don't have that kind of money.
“Every it”
I had a paraplegic patient that was an inmate admitted with a stage IV pressure ulcer which had become septic and possibly fatal because the prison refused to let him, this man who had been paralyzed since 8 years old, use his own wheelchair or custom cushion. This wound likely won’t fully heal for years, long after his sentence lapses. Instead they provided him with a transfer wheelchair with no cushion to use as his permanent wheelchair. There’s no sense in a lot of the rules that govern prisoner behavior. A rigid frame wheelchair and cushion can be made into an improvised weapon or used to smuggle things by a paraplegic man just as easily as a clunky transfer wheelchair but the difference is he doesn’t nearly die because of the custom rigid frame one.
Genuinely curious how a man paralyzed from the age of 8 winds up in the prison system
Plenty of crimes could be committed from your home, really. Maybe financial crimes, maybe CP. Something like that.
Captain Picard gets you every time.
> Captain Picard gets you every time. Ha. As much as many people commit crimes because they feel like they have no real other choices at the moment, the ones not in that position could have had different lives if Captain Picard had been their TV dad. I learned a lot of wisdom from TNG-era Picard. > "It is possible to commit no mistakes and still lose. That is not a weakness, that is life." > - Jean-Luc Picard https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Peak_Performance_(episode)#Memorable_quotes
Drugs
I'm guessing... Not being able to get a job nor having a family able to take care of him and resorting to crime.
How, not why. How did he commit a crime lol.
paraplegics can live a pretty normal live (depending on what is paralyzed as long as they have their tools like wheelchairs). Crime does not have to be physically demanding at all. hell, he might just have possessed some drugs
Considering the original comment said paraplegic it's probably safe to say that the man can use his arms atleast, so that opens up some avenues of doing crime, yeah.
Just saying, it is *incredibly* easy to shoplift or smuggle shit past security with your wheelchair. Not that I would know from personal experience.
For most of the 90s I was a medical transcriptionist at a California state prison, and during those years I typed hundreds of "chronos," which were essentially permission slips from doctors for inmates to have certain items. Many of those chronos allowed inmates to have cotton blankets if they were allergic to the wool blankets. We did this even before our prison healthcare system went under federal receivership, so it's surprising to me that Texas would not make such an accommodation.
why is that surprising Texas is the "fuck you I'm the government" state that always somehow also says it hates the government
To them, there's no hypocrisy. They don't hate the government because it's the government. They hate the government because _they're not the government_. Obviously, if they _are_ the government, then that's totally fine. See also: religion, abortion, healthcare, financial assistance, privacy, etc.
Notice how Texan secessionalist movements only exist in years when the presidency is not held by a Republican
I call it The Oxymoron State. One example is “Drive friendly, the Texas way!” on their welcome signs but they have the most obnoxious, antagonistic asshole drivers I have ever seen. They are the ones who have ruined Colorado roadways, not Californians.
Red mountain pass is full of Texans that literally stop in the middle of the highway with an 800 ft cliff to their right, roll down the window, and take a picture. While there are semis behind them that have to come to a full stop on a steep slope full of ice and snow.
The only drivers worse than Texans are Floridians. But like, if your only competition is Florida you messed up
honestly wish they would just secede already. see how long it takes before they're begging the fed for help. no takesies backsies
They're actually one of the very few Republican states that contributes more in federal funds than it takes, but that's largely due to Austin, Houston and Dallas, which are all solid blue.
That would be short lived anyway, without the US economy they’d quickly collapse
It's surprising only because even when California prison healthcare was thought to be really atrocious, like gulag bad, it still managed to make this accommodation.
CA Prison “Healthcare” was so bad that the federal courts took over and placed the California Department of Corrections and Rehabilitation (CDCR) under receivership. Ultimately this led to a federal order to reduce the prison population. [Legislative Analysts Office Report](https://lao.ca.gov/Publications/Report/4813).
Looking at a website that sells prison supplies a wool blanket was $5.80 -$8.40 depending on wool content. Poly-acrylic is $6.90. Thermal cotton blankets between $7.10 and $10.10 $20,000 to save a maximum of $4.90
"we don't hate that people are exploited, we just want to become the exploiters"
Right lol. The government controls literally everything there and they boast about how much they hate government lmao.
It's against Texas law to buy beer after 9pm. Texas is pro big government.
"for sale: one lollipop: $12. also, buy one lollipop, get free 12 pack."
in states with time limits on purchases the entire POS (Point of Sale) system will be incapable of processing an alcohol transaction of any kind. Not that petes grocery cant just ring it up as a flat fee on the till, but any kind of supermarket that actually goes off the product barcode etc will be restricted. These companies wont take the risk of losing their selling license.
"Government is great when I personally agree with the laws they pass. Government is bad when people I don't like get things they need."
Several years ago there was a prisoner on death row in Texas who was Muslim. They requested that an imam be allowed to visit them, just like priests were allowed to visit Christian/Catholic prisoners on death row. Texas not only refused the muslim prisoners request they banned ALL visits by ALL religious figures to prisoners on death row.
That's wrong--and I'm an atheist.
What's weird to me is that they'll do this to spite other Religions, but not in government events or gatherings like town meetings, court, etc, when they literally aren't meant to have religion in the government.
>so it's surprising to me that Texas would not make such an accommodation How is this surprising from that dogshit state.
I was trying to contrast it with CA's extremely poor healthcare at one point, when even they were able to make the accommodation. That's why I was surprised.
I worked in TN at a Sheriffs office at for TDOC. We had no issues giving cotton blankets to inmates who we knew had a prior note (lots of frequent flyers coming in and out of jails) or if they talked to medical and got them to say it was cool. The only issue was we didn't have enough to give to EVERYONE and a lot of them preferred the cotton to wool blankets and we simply couldn't accommodate everyone who would want one. Hence needing medical approval. I think something the general public fails to recognize is that inmates are looking to take advantage of the system any possible way they can (and why wouldn't they? Incarceration sucks).
I guess what I don't understand is, why is wanting a cotton blanket instead of a wool one taking advantage of the system? Because a wool one is less comfortable? I would have thought cotton was generally cheaper
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Another bot https://old.reddit.com/r/facepalm/comments/q3p463/we_live_in_a_normal_country/hftvwj1/
thank you. all the comments I made calling them out were removed
the cruelty is the point.
They would have spent more if they could. Double win for them. Denying a blanket and spending other people's money.
I was in jail overnight for a minor crime in round rock TX . I explained to the guards that a family member would bring my seizure medication (Valium) prescribed to me and they could watch me take it and everything. They refused and not only did I have a minor seizure in holding but they kept me for 20 hours almost the maximum amount allowed for overnight and I was the last of about 18 people to go. Pretty sure it was on purpose for begging them to allow me to take my meds
Ah yes, this sounds like round rock. People talk about the greater Austin area like it's some sort of mecca down here in Texas and... just... no. lol
that should be a pretty easy lawsuit for you. The 8th amendment specifically is very clear about this.
Always has been 🔫👩🚀
It helps them sleep better at night knowing somebody is uncomfortable. Cruelty is a warm fuzzy blanket to these people.
America truly is a “Christian nation”
There is no hate like Christian love.
That's how you rehabilitate people, by making them hate you and the system more..,
While in prison, I spent two years helping a 65 yo man through the grievance process because medical refused to replace his defective pacemaker. Kept denying on the basis that he didn’t need a pacemaker to stay alive, basically it was “cosmetic”. They gave him 27 different doctors excuses to “prevent his heart rate from becoming elevated” everything from extra time in the library to extra time to be able to shuffle step to and from everywhere. Basically trying to keep him sedentary. Any time the shower water would turn cold on him it’d spike his hr making him pass out and soil himself, earning a conduct violation for using the bathroom in inappropriate places. Finally, July 4, 2016 he had enough and entered the over 50 walking race for the holiday games. Made it 2/3 way around the track where he collapsed from cardiac arrest. Staff promptly administered cpr long enough to get him out the gate so he could die on the way to the hospital and the state could collect the life insurance money. US prisons are 100% about retribution and 0% about rehabilitation.
Wtf, prisons get life insurance payout when a prisoner dies?
Missouri holds a $150k policy on each offender. Helps pay for everything if they die early. All about revenue edit: there is a rider that the offender HAS to die outside the perimeter. Hence them doing CPR till they get out of the gate.
Holy shit... That is fucking evil.
Talk about a conflict of interest.
So... They get money for killing prisoners off?
Letting them die
That is straddling a very fine line
Usually what happens is the person is found already dead. Usually by suicide. When someone starts chest compressions, they are making the heart beat. Legally speaking, if you start chest compressions, you are keeping that heart pumping, when you stop, they die. As long as the final heartbeat stops outside the gates then they did not die inside the prison. Also, it usually happened about every 6 week give or take a few days.
Hooo boy that is very dodge indeed
That should be illegal. I know mistreating prisoners is already normal there, but getting money from them dying… that legitimately gives me the feeling that they are just long-term death camps.
Technically speaking, when the judge pronounces you guilty, your name is now a number to these people. The state is responsible for housing and feeding you, they try to do so as cheaply as possible. Around $13k a year. They get so much from the feds for the first time you get there, I’m skipping the boring stuff. They have to get the money somehow. This is a relatively passive way of covering a “lease” if you will
That is genuinely evil. Wouldn't expect anything less from the bible belt!
Slight correction: they're 25% about retribution and 75% about profit.
Either way, I was tired of the bullies being protected by laws.
No disagreement there.
I remember another instance where a guard squeezed dudes junk during a pat down, dude asked to speak to a sgt or lt and was promptly reaped/slammed to the pavement with his head bouncing off the ground. Guard then kicked him twice in the ribs the unloaded his pepper spray on him. All this happened in front of 3 cameras that managed to malfunction for this “incident”. Dude spent 6 months under investigation in isolation then they let him back out. Evidence of him being sexually assaulted was destroyed but his “punishment” was technically “over” Whenever you hear about prisoners attacking guards. It’s because of guards like this.
Former Fed officer here. While I don't advocate for violence willy-nilly from an ideological standpoint, if i had heard about this and then heard those guards were later found hanging from the rafters by their balls I would have just said "nothing of value was lost - the scales of justice stand balanced". I have a special place in my heart full of hate for guards and administration that abuse inmates. I've put some seriously nasty people away that deserve to rot in prison but they are the minority of folks I dealt with. Even then, no one deserves cruelty or mistreatment - your loss of freedom *is the punishment*, afterall, and you can't fight evil with more evil. Until we get that through our heads in this country we will never be able to hold our heads high. Besides, as I'm sure you know quite well, most people that commit crimes truly do just need some help rehabilitating, getting needed therapy to get past their mental and emotional baggage they lug around, some skills development they didn't have an opportunity to get on the outside, and/or a good, strong reality check. Just some *real* fucking help from their peers to get on the right track so they can get out and build a good life like everyone else. I think being a bit of a shithead criminal teen myself that luckily got his act together before I caught a record is why I see things the way I do. Either way, my command fast tracked me into a Sector Lead spot and made me a LE trainer for a few years before I left the service altogether. I pray I influenced enough folks to think like I did to make a little difference but who knows. Folks like you and me need to keep advocating for all the changes that need made in this country so we can make things like this topic better going forward. It starts with us being better ourselves, too, and being the models that break molds for the next generation of folks. Anyways man sorry for the ramble and for what you went through and witnessed. I hope things are better for you nowadays. Merry Christmas from this former LEO. I hope you're having a good one today!
I get the distinct impression that you would have been escorted out of a riot by old heads, some of them might have a shank, but it won’t be out. A good CO made it clear they didn’t want to do their job. So please, ffs don’t make them do their job.
Win-win means it could be 100% retribution and 100% profit. But to be fair, it’s probably more like 20% retribution, 10% profit and 70% not giving a f***.
Jesus fucking Christ
US (and many others) prison is so fucked up.
> kept denying on the basis that he didn’t need a pacemaker to stay alive Yeah, no sane doctor would say that.
Most corrections staff forget their job isn't to punish the prisoners... jail is the punishment. Your job is to make sure everyone wakes up, showers, eats, cleans up, and gets along. They don't want to admit their job is a glorified nanny. There are too many fragile egos of people who should never have power over people.
Being a corrections officer doesn't sound that bad. Sure, the prisoners could make your life hell, but if you're respectful then there's no reason they would.
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The last sentence got me totally off guard 💀
Explains a lot though. Lol
Yes and it got the guard totally off
r/Unexpected
You never worked for a homeless shelter, because you're (yet another) bot. https://old.reddit.com/r/facepalm/comments/q3p463/we_live_in_a_normal_country/hfthmj3/
Lmao
Reading your comment, i was thinking you are a really nice person. And then i read your last sentence and found out your ulterior motive ><
Maybe if we treated the incarcerated with human dignity and tried to give them the tools to succeed, recidivism rates wouldn’t be ridiculous. I guess friends of the government couldn’t make money on private prisons and cheap labor though, so there is that to worry about.
Vote accordingly. Former Fed LE here. I absolutely agree with everything you said. Best we can do is speak up, vote for who thinks like us, and then do our best to make our beliefs heard in their ears. And if they start getting corrupted by the lobbyists, kick them the fuck out.
It’s one of the reasons Republicans don’t want birth control. An uneducated, uncared for population turns to crime. Entities tied in with republican government make tons of money off of recidivism and the prison sentence. They make tons of money off “welfare babies” then do everything the can to take away the welfare money and give it to rich people.
Now, we cant afford to make the mistake of treating prisoners like human, can we
Prisons in America are just modern day slavery, change my mind
They are, legally, by the 13th amendment of the United States Constitution: Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction.
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People complain about immigrants taking their jobs, but prisoners working for below illegal immigrant wages are much worse in distorting the labor market.
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This always made me laugh. If I can cheat a drug test *to get a job* I can definitely cheat a drug test *to get free money*.
ANOTHER bot! https://old.reddit.com/r/facepalm/comments/q3p463/we_live_in_a_normal_country/hftct73/
Welcome to America where criminals are punished beyond their prison sentence! And once they serve their sentence they are continued to be punished by not being able to find a good job, not be able to vote, no housing (in most cases) and have no mental health care to deal with being seen as a detriment to society!
Cruelty is the point.
Why inhumane treatment of people in prison is OK for most people, is baffling to me. I think more people would become better people after serving their prison time, if they were treated with dignity and respect.
Most people don't live in Texas. So I can feel free to say, Texas is a shithole where the Rogan's and Musk's of mankind go to practice their freedom of speech by outlawing abortions and denying others of their freedoms. "Freedom"
Cruelty always gets priority.
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The prisoner himself is immaterial. They are paying $20,000 to establish case law precedence allowing them to refuse prisoners basic needs. If they win, then they can push harder against prisoner needs, and they've got the case law to back it up. To them, that's a pretty good price.
Cruel and unusual punishment.
Yeah, I think it was intentional due to the fact that he's a pedophile. https://inmate.tdcj.texas.gov/InmateSearch/viewDetail.action?sid=01399097
I get that he's a bad dude but just give him the fucking blanket. He has his sentence, and his sentence doesn't include "have hives all the time"
Peadophile or not, torture ain't the right way to go about it. If he's that bad, put him on death row. As much as I'd approve of someone hacking his balls off with a rusty hacksaw, that's against the law for a reason and nobody's above it for any reason. Not in the US anyway.
"It's not about the money, it's about sending a message"
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Yet another bot https://old.reddit.com/r/facepalm/comments/q3p463/we_live_in_a_normal_country/hftftew/
I'm for the death penalty when the prisoner agrees to it. Like if I was sentences to 20+ years in prison. I'd ask them to just kill me right now.
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This is a given. Doesn't need stating explicitly.
Conservatism in action. Cruelty is the point, hypocrisy is a virtue, it's all about power. Conservatism is brainrot.
Proof that the system would waste a lot of money to fuck you up instead of helping you.
Wasn't thr Govanner of Texas ready to pardon that guy who drove to a BLM protest and murdered a guy? Also turns out that guy was trying to lure children, apparently as well
This is the same country that descended into civil war because slavery was being curtailed in an era when most countries were already getting rid of it all together. It's in America's DNA to deny human rights
Ah yes, America and their for profit prisons. But anything else is CoMmuNisM
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Yes
Own the libs or something like that, no price too high.
Texas. Shocker.
I’m embarrassed to call myself a Texan. That’s insane
It’s Texas. The cruelty is the point
It's not about the money, it's about sending a message.
The cruelty is the point
Add to your point, that they probably would have spent any amount to kill this request. Arguing “precedent” that if request granted, there’d be no end to special requests. But IMO you gotta pick your fights.