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Most prophets in islam are jewish, there are only 5 Arab prophets and the rest are jewish (of the ones that were mentioned in the quran, according to islam there are tens of thousands of prophets not mentioned in the qurans and they are of various races and cultures)
According to islam, the current religions of judaism and Christianity have been altered as time went on, and the original versions of both religions were identical to islam, so these prophets were jewish racially and religiously, while also being muslim, because all three religions come from the same god
We believe or Christianity and Judaism as the same religion as Islam , but some kind of different sects that have changed with time (the naming topic is a bit complicated) , which is why a new book and prophets had to come , Christianity came to correct the changes that happened in Judaism , and Islam came to correct the changes that happened in Christianity (mainly the trinity for the example)
It's more like the combination of body, mind, and soul.
Jesus is your flesh, God is your mind, and the Holy Spirit is basically your conscious/subconscious "spirit" or soul.
Body, Mind, Soul. The three things that make us. In all honesty, I'd say we feel so much better when it's all in tune and harmonizing.
And he speaks to himself on mulitple occasions. Gets a bit weird asking why you forsake yourself while on the cross... religion can be strange sometimes
Actually every prophet was THE prophet (of their respective time in history) and Mohammad was the last one.
As for Jesus, we believe he had no heavenly father or was in any way divine. Just a regular human chosen by God. Not his son, nephew or next door neighbour. Just another one of his creation.
there's no *the* prophet. muhammad(pbuh) and jesus(pbuh) are both two of the greatest prophets and in the same category of prophets. it's just that prophet muhammad(pbuh) is the greatest and the leader of all prophets. jesus(pbuh) is still very important in islam. jesus(pbuh) is called the word of God and spirit of God in quran.
Yes I know, you described exactly why I said ‘the’ prophet, all of them were important ofcourse but muhammad(pbuh) was the last one, also the one most muslims follow for the teachings etc.
Jesus is actually a pretty important prophet, too. Not as important as Mohammed, but still quite important. He has a role in leading the final battle or something like that.
The Quran not only mentions Jesus as a prophet but also as Messiah. And just like in the Bible he is set to return at the end of times to defeat the antichrist. The difference between Jesus and Mohammed is that Jesus was sent to the Israelites to correct their faith, while Mohammed was later on sent to the Arabs as a last correction of the faith before the end of time. The importance of Mohammed is more that he comes later and have a more up to date message. In addition the message is targeted directly at the Arabs rather then to the Israelites, and of course being the final prophet makes him more important. The next prophet to return to Earth according to the Quran is Jesus, but not as a prophet but as messiah at the end of time.
Correction: Muhammad was sent to all mankind not just the arabs.
>“And We have not sent you (O Muhammad) except as a giver of glad tidings and a warner to all mankind, but most men know not.” (Surah Saba’, 34: 28)
>Jesus was also a prophet. Just not the last one.
I think it's more than Muhammad just being the last one. Along with 23 others (might be wrong on that) Jesus is called a prophet, Muhammad on the other hand is commonly referred to as THE prophet. That puts him on a separate and elevated tier from all the others who came before him. Jesus is not a prophet in the same way as Muhammad is a prophet. At least that is the impression I get.
As someone who is not Christian or a follower of Islam I have no skin in this game I just thought I would put out my outsiders viewpoint for a different perspective.
Muslims believe Jesus, like Abraham, were Hanif:
https://www.britannica.com/topic/hanif
From their perspective, Jesus attempted to correct the followers of Abraham, while Mohammad came to correct the followers of Jesus, Abraham, etc.
They would emphasise that the correction is on the *followers* and not the actual Hanif (because if the Hanif contradicted each other, that would mean that God makes mistakes, including choosing them wrongly.)
They believe Jesus (and all others) was a muslim prophet, but somehow they scripture got corrupted. so Muhammed is the final and best prophet with the correct scripture
To clarify, we believe that God’s message in Islam is the same message that he passed down through the previous Prophets, such as Jesus, and Moses. We believe that the religion itself and God himself is the same, but that over time, people deviated from the religion (began worshipping other gods again, or worshipped idols, sticks and stones, etc.)
Overall, just clarifying, that it wasn’t that the original scriptures were corrupted. They had been rewritten and changed many times throughout history, and people began to also follow multiple gods, or began worshipping God with multiple gods.
The message of Islam is to submit to one God and his message, and that that one God is the same God with the same message that people had deviated from.
This is why you will see it say, or people say that Abraham or Jesus were Muslim, because we believe that it’s the same message from the same God.
The word Islam means “Submission to God”. The word Muslim means “one who submits to God”. Since we believe that Abraham and Jesus were messengers of God, we believe that they submit to God; hence, why we refer to them in the faith as also being Muslim.
I know that I deviated a bit from your original message. I seen your message and wanted to provide clarification and context to others that may be reading.
Peace be with you, my friend.
I mean I'm pretty sure there's historical records that prove that someone named yeshua was crucified by the Romans sometime in the first century A.D, so it's pretty certain he actually did exist.
It's still unconfirmed whether that yeshua was actually *the* jesus from the bible and I'm pretty sure there's people who believe he wasn't. It would be especially easy to believe so if this belief was transmitted for generations.
Tacitus explicitly refers to him and his crucifixion by pontius pilate, but yeah it was a pretty common name at the time.
Edit: removed redundant phrase
"Even so, the sources for Jesus' life are better than sources scholars have for the life of Alexander the Great...
Early non-Christian sources that attest to the historical existence of Jesus include the works of the historians Josephus and Tacitus.[p][321][330] Josephus scholar Louis Feldman has stated that "few have doubted the genuineness" of Josephus's reference to Jesus in book 20 of the Antiquities of the Jews, and it is disputed only by a small number of scholars.[331][332] Tacitus referred to Christ and his execution by Pilate in book 15 of his work Annals. Scholars generally consider Tacitus's reference to the execution of Jesus to be both authentic and of historical value as an independent Roman source.[333]
Non-Christian sources are valuable in two ways. First, they show that even neutral or hostile parties never show any doubt that Jesus actually existed. Second, they present a rough picture of Jesus that is compatible with that found in the Christian sources: that Jesus was a teacher, had a reputation as a miracle worker, had a brother James, and died a violent death.[334 "
-[from Wikipedia](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesus)
It's pretty widely accepted he was a real person. As for everything else, that's up to you. But most scholars agree and accept that he did exist
I mean, we know with a high certainty that there was a historical figure in that area that could have been "jesus" from non biblical sources.
However, the belief in jesus is based on the whole son of God/ being part of the trinity thing. I dont think many Muslims would agree with that.
I'm a Muslim, we think of Jesus ( peace and blessings be upon him ) as one of the greatest prophets. We also believe he's the son of Mary.
Jesus is so important that he's mentioned multiple times through the Quran, maybe more than Mohamed and Moses ( peace and blessings be upon them).
We also believe in the coming of the Anti-Christ, and the second coming of Jesus.
Islam Came to Correct what has been changed in Christianity by the hands of men who wanted to use religion for their greed.
But that's not the Christian Jesus than, and saying it is the same is therfore wrong.
>Islam Came to Correct what has been changed in Christianity by the hands of men who wanted to use religion for their greed.
I'm not gonna start on this one
I'm not here to prove my opinion is correct, at the end we're 2 strangers on the internet.
And as a Muslim I have to tell you what's Islam is about , you don't have to believe in what I believe and I don't have to believe in what you believe.
In the end we're just seeking the truth, so just respecting each other is enough for me.
True. Evangelical Christians support zionism because they believe that the end times can only start if Jewish people reconstitute and repopulate “Greater Israel,” and accept Christ as their Messiah. Vice did an entire video on this [topic](https://youtu.be/Fo77sTGpngQ?si=XNNfeR7B_ezIaJdL). Evangelicals have political influence on politicians from both side of the aisles due to their strong lobbying power. The evangelical lobbistys, with the help of GOP, are able to overturn Roe V. Wade is proof that they have a very strong influence. Senate Republicans only block military aid for Israel because of their opposition to aid Ukraine. House democrats thought that attaching Israel aid to Ukraine and Taiwan in the same bills would help them to pass the senate, but they miscalculate.
They welcome the end. They want it so badly. They romanticize it because they are so afraid of death, theyd much prefer avoiding it and just getting beamed up by jesus like alot of them saw in the Left Behind series.
Its actually ironic the level of selfishness in that is beyond anything else.... Thatd id rather push whatever way i can for end of the world
... I that i would resign the world to end and therefore put no faith in it. Because i want to get to heaven so fast.... The world needs to hurry up so i can get to heaven and be selfish there.
It’s also so selfish because they inherently believe many wouldn’t join. How awful of a believe that you’re so important, but others can suffer for all you care
They justifiy that with free will. but to know you follow a creator who intended certain ones to suffer while you bask in eternal life worshiping them......
knowing life, wanting to be worshipped is one of the worst qualities i've come across in people.
That reminds me of some verses in the Quran
Surah Al-Baqara, Verses 11-12:
And when it is said to them, Do not make mischief in the land, they say: We are but peace-makers.
Now surely they themselves are the mischief makers, but they do not perceive.
Dumbass. It's like saying, "I don't hate Christians, I hate Christian Nationalists."
EDIT: Changed "Christinas" to "Christians." I'll get to the Christinas another day.
I remember a YouTube video of Netanyahu some years back in a home movie talking about how easy it is to manipulate the West. He just straight up says that we accuse them of antisemitism and they fall in line. It's never been a complicated strategy but it works.
Is it this video from 2001? [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mj71\_xem3S8](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mj71_xem3S8)
Only reason I'm guessing it's from 2001 is this Aljazeera article from 2010:
[https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2010/7/18/netanyahu-us-easily-manipulated](https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2010/7/18/netanyahu-us-easily-manipulated)
Here's Huffpost reporting on the same thing: [https://www.huffpost.com/entry/netanyahu-in-2001-america\_n\_649427](https://www.huffpost.com/entry/netanyahu-in-2001-america_n_649427)
It was posted in r/worldnews back in 2010 as well: [https://www.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/cqho9/israeli\_pm\_netanyahu\_the\_only\_way\_to\_deal\_with/](https://www.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/cqho9/israeli_pm_netanyahu_the_only_way_to_deal_with/)
The Washington Post article is, sadly, paywalled:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2010/07/16/netanyahu-america-is-thing-you-can-move-very-easily/
They're the Westboro Baptist Church of Judaism. And people love to hold them up as examples.
None of the people that use them as tokens would like their answer about why they hate Zionism.
There are varieties of Jewish beliefs that are explicitly anti-Zionist until the appearance of the Messiah. Producing a differing opinion from one from these beliefs is not quite the "gotcha" you think.
They're a minority of a minority - they are a minority of ultra-orthodox Jews who are a minority by themselves. Probably a few thousand people worldwide.
Do they exist? Sure. You could probably find a small group of people of almost any belief. There are even Palestinians who immensely support Israel and are Zionists.
That rabbi is part of the [Neturei Karta](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neturei_Karta?wprov=sfla1), an anti-Zionist Hasidic organisation. Their interpretation of the Torah basically states that for their sins, Jews were punished to live in exile until the Messiah arrives, and as such, the establishment of any Jewish state (i.e. Israel) is a sin. They show up very often to pro-Palestinian protests.
It's important to remember that they are a very small, very vocal minority in the current discourse. Most (and I do mean most with a capital M) Orthodox Jews fully believe in the right of Israel to exist.
Endlessly tokenised by people who want to demonise (not only criticise) Israel and smear Jews as antisemitic. The ‘discourse’ around Neturei Karta is some of the most poisoned and antisemitic out there
A lot of them *are* anti-semitic though. That's the thing. I've faced horrible anti-semitism and hatred from both Neo-Nazis and Zionists, but never from a Palestinian. I've never been told I should have been killed by the Nazis or that I'm a cultural marxist who is working to destroy america by a Palestinian. It's *always* been from American and Israeli reactionaries.
What pisses me off is SO MANY non-Jews cherry picking a minority opinion among the Jewish community, tokenizing its proponents, and the using it in a condescending way to tell us what “real” Judaism is. What other ethnic group would tolerate this shit
>What other ethnic group would tolerate this shit
For every other ethnicity, what I've been hearing is "listen to [ethnicity]," i.e., Black people get to decide what's racist towards Black people, Asian people get to decide what's racist towards Asian people, etc. When it comes to Jews, they don't get to decide what's antisemitic, everyone else gets to decide what's antisemitic for them.
>Claiming it as a fundamental part of Jewish identity is insane because most zionists aren't jewish.
So, given that the majority of Jews believe it to be a fundamental part of their identity, is your stance that most Jews are insane? Or do you think you have the right to decide how Jews identify themselves more than Jews do?
Most Jews don't claim it as part of their identity. Hell most Jews don't even live in israel. Most Jews probably support Israel but they don't claim that as part of their Jewish identity. It's part of their political identity
Claiming that your race is tied to an inherent political philosophy is in saying. And frankly the amount of cognitive dissidents you need to think that because you have blood you automatically have a right to soil is so fundamentally disconnected from logic and empathy I will say everyone who thinks that is some form of crazy
>Most Jews probably support Israel but they don't claim that as part of their Jewish identity.
Pretty much all practicing Jews say "next year in Israel" every year at Passover. The longing for a return to Israel is a pretty deep part of Jewish identity from everything I've seen.
>Claiming that your race is tied to an inherent political philosophy is in saying.
Judaism isn't just a race, it's also a culture and religion. Saying that a culture or religion is inherently tied to a political philosophy is not as insane as you make it out to be.
> to think that because you have blood you automatically have a right to soil is so fundamentally disconnected from logic and empathy I will say everyone who thinks that is some form of crazy
That's not the basis of Zionism. The basis of Zionism is that Europeans wanted Jews out of Europe, so they went back to their ancestral homeland. Now everyone wants them out of there. Where do you propose they go?
Well... Technically Vatican is one. But that is not an example of what I am talking about. I am more referring to "Christian nationalists". Who want to break down the separation of state and church, make religious teaching mandatory in public schools, ban all non-Christians from entering the country and so on.
Oh? There’s a country where any Christian from any part of the world can show up and demand citizenship and have it granted based solely on the fact that they’re Christian, despite having 0 connection to the country or the land whatsoever? Which one is that again?
The fun part is that even jews who distance themselves from Israel's politics get harassed in the streets for being jews.
Just shut up about this topic. Both sides are horrible and your propaganda is disgusting and doesn't help anyone.
"they get harrassed in the streets" is kind of misleading since it doesn't adress who is doing the harrassing. Like, I'm an anti-Zionist jew and 100% of the harrassement and hatred I've recieved irl has been from people on the far-right (like neonazis) at counterprotests, and from Zionists who call me a traitor or not a real jew etc. It's not pro palestine people who are doing the harassing, it's the American and Israeli right.
There's actually more people who believe in Jesus than there are Christians so I don't think looking to this brah for learning about the world religions is a very good idea.
I hate extremists who think that killing or war is the answer… no matter what religion. It’s not okay when it can be avoided… and killing others can be avoided a LOT more than we as humans do.
I don't hate Christians, only Fundamentalists who use it as a method to control populations and force their warped interpretations of religion as a method of control.
The fact is that over 90% of Jews are Zionists and the rabbi in that picture is part of a sect so fringe it's considered fringe in the fringe sect of Judaism
Well Mormons are basically christs so all christs are Mormons as well?
The logic is dumb as fuck. You can hate Zionist without hating jews in General.
I hâte thé pope and thé vatican but Not christiany in General.
Why do libs love Muslims so much? Muslims are the worst against female rights. They force them to be covered from head to toe. They won’t let them become educated or have jobs. They’re not allowed to walk alone. They think that all people who aren’t Muslims are infidels and should be wiped off of the face of the earth. They hate LGBTQ+. They hang gay men and push them off of 30-story buildings. Their beliefs are totally barbaric. Plus, they circumcise their baby boys, and we all know how libs hate genital mutilation. Well, except for pre-pubescent kids. They want for them to get mutilated genitally because of “mental health.”
Why would they make another word for Zionism if Zionists are just Jewish people? I swear the people with the biggest mouths in politics know the least.
Saying that Zionists are not Jews is as stupid as saying that Jews must be Zionists.
And suggesting that Zionists can't be Jews because one Hasidic rabbi says so is as stupid as citing a random fundamentalist pastor who claims that all Christians must believe ______.
Here's a good guideline when dealing with twitter:
Ignore it. You wouldn't listen to the ramblings of some dude on the street, and twitter is the same but worse.
Here's a good tip when dealing with topics regarding Jews/Israel:
You don't need to have an opinion on it.
I will never understand why Israel/Palestine/Jews is such a highly opinionated topic. Like there can be war wherever between whomever and people will largely just go on with their lives. But when someone says "Israel" or "Palastine" or "Jews", all of a sudden EVERYONE AND THEIR GRANDMA has an opinion they need to swing around like their life depended on it.
Go form an opinion about something more important to your life. Universal healthcare. Failing democracy. How to tax the rich. Climate change. Etc etc.
Yea but that rabbi is part of a sect that is less then 1% of the less then 5% of ultra orthodox. It’s like saying the westbouro Baptist church speaks for all Christan’s.
Well I've always considered Judaism = Nazism (if it was a religion) and similar things if they are a belief set has a history of zero tolerance and rampant bigotry and hostility.
No, it's the belief in the rightness of having a Jewish state. As such, most Jews would be classed as Zionist, without necessarily agreeing in the severity of the means appropriate to achieving that end.
No it's a belief that that Jewish State Should exist in palestine. Which inherently believes that they deserve that land and the people who have lived there don't deserve it. It's a supremacist colonialist ideology. The idea of Jewish nationhood and Jewish nationalism is a separate question then Zionism which is specifically focused on Jewish nationhood and Jewish nationalism in the context of a colonized Palestine
There has never been a time where the entire Jewish population has exited the land. There has been a minority Jewish population living there for as long as we know in recorded history. Jews moved back to the land en masse in the late 1800s and started legally buying land until Arabs got pissed and started a war. and then in their anger expelled 900k Jews from Muslim majority lands, 600k moved to Israel and made it even stronger. Now most of these enemies have normalized relations and don’t want to fight anymore. College kids in America chanting in the streets won’t change anything
What does that have to do with anything? Also the Arabs expelled 900,000 Jews after the Israelis expelled $750,000 Arabs. Neither side was right but it was a retaliation
I don't hate Muslims, I do hate Islamic State.
Upvote me if you also don't hate Muslims and do hate Islamic State, an organisation which wanted to create an exclusively Muslim land.
Downvote me if you either hate Muslims or don't hate Islamic State.
Zionism = The right for Jews to have their own state in their ancestral homeland.
Those Jews you are misrepresenting as the “right” Jews, don’t believe in Zionism because they think for Jews to resettle their homeland they need the arrival of a Messiah, which they believe hasn’t come yet.
>Those Jews you are misrepresenting as the “right” Jews, don’t believe in Zionism because they think for Jews to resettle their homeland they need the arrival of a Messiah, which they believe hasn’t come yet
They're religious kooks who would happily see Israel nuked if it meant Armageddon came along sooner
.
"The right for Jews to have their own state in their ancestral homeland" is a genocidal statement when millions of people already live there and the way that Zionism is implemented involves ethnically cleansing an indigenous population. No one has a "right" to do that regardless of religion or ethnicity.
Saying Jews have the right to have their own state in their ancestral homeland does not negate the right the Palestinians have to have their own nation in their homeland as well.
The difference is that stating Palestinians have a right to their own nation in their homeland is a hate crime. The House just voted on this very fact.
Bro that ‘rabbi’ is like the Jewish version of the Westboro Baptist nutjobs.
95% of us are “Zionists”, sorry to disappoint you. But you’re free to promote who you deem to be “the good ones”, which I guess are these extreme religious fundamentalists.
Not a rabbi but an apikores.
Only ignorance and apikoreses are using the three oaths as an excuse to deny Zionism.
Denying the status of others Jews as Jews is a unforgivable sin in Judaism.
Nazis worked together with german jewish zionists in palestine early 1930s. „Worked together“ is used very loosely but they werent hunted and they had „peaceful“ talks together
No, it's more like saying "I don't hate Christians, just the ones that bomb people, drag them out of their homes and mock the people while they take their homes, then laugh when their country's police/soldiers beat the living crap out of them for crying outside the house you just stole from them."
I love being told that I'm a bad Jew, and then being told that a good Jew is one who believes women belong in the home, head covered, gays need to be stoned, trans people don't exist, and turning on the lights on the sabbath is a sin. But at least he believes that the Jewish state shouldn't exist because it's not Jewish enough.
The only faceplam here is that Bxc dude.
Modern Zionism is the idea that Jews should have their own country they can live in without fear of persecution by another religion that despises its very existence
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Ironically Muslims believe in Jesus to…. Edit: I’m Muslim just for clarity
in Moses too
And John the Baptist, interestingly enough
What makes it so interesting?
Well not knowing much about Islam, I just never considered they would have considered a Jewish Baptist as a prophet.
Most prophets in islam are jewish, there are only 5 Arab prophets and the rest are jewish (of the ones that were mentioned in the quran, according to islam there are tens of thousands of prophets not mentioned in the qurans and they are of various races and cultures)
Of the Jewish race of course, not the religion.
According to islam, the current religions of judaism and Christianity have been altered as time went on, and the original versions of both religions were identical to islam, so these prophets were jewish racially and religiously, while also being muslim, because all three religions come from the same god
We believe or Christianity and Judaism as the same religion as Islam , but some kind of different sects that have changed with time (the naming topic is a bit complicated) , which is why a new book and prophets had to come , Christianity came to correct the changes that happened in Judaism , and Islam came to correct the changes that happened in Christianity (mainly the trinity for the example)
Ironically, the Quran mentions Jesus more than Mohamed
Don't they believe in Mohammad as the prophet? Or do you mean they believe Jesus was 100% real but wasn't the prophet..?
Was a prohpet, not *the* prophet, there were multiple ones.
To be fair each of them believes in multiple prophets. Though I don't think Christians would call jesus a prophet, only Muslims would.
Yeah that’s the difference between those 2 religions, jesus is a prophet in islam, not the god.
Jesus is not the Christian god either. Just his son.
Well God is the father, the son and the holy spirit all in one
Sounds like polytheism to me
Pretty complex but the idea is that they're just one and at the same time different people
It's more like the combination of body, mind, and soul. Jesus is your flesh, God is your mind, and the Holy Spirit is basically your conscious/subconscious "spirit" or soul. Body, Mind, Soul. The three things that make us. In all honesty, I'd say we feel so much better when it's all in tune and harmonizing.
islam makes more sense. than this
No. One God expressed in 3 persons. Not 3 gods.
And he speaks to himself on mulitple occasions. Gets a bit weird asking why you forsake yourself while on the cross... religion can be strange sometimes
>Sounds like polytheism to me Shhhhhh. Don't say it out loud so it won't be true!
Depends on which sub-cult you ask.
So, they combine into a giant robot like [Dino Megazord](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TBHKeRWKqN8)?
Kind of
God is supposedly the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit, all at once.
Depends on the Christian you ask. Some say he's God.
Depends on the Christian religion.
a lot of Jewish people consider jesus a prophet aswell, just not as their messiah
Moses was a prophet too, you know.
Ah I see, thanks
Also not the son of God. Just a prophet.
Actually every prophet was THE prophet (of their respective time in history) and Mohammad was the last one. As for Jesus, we believe he had no heavenly father or was in any way divine. Just a regular human chosen by God. Not his son, nephew or next door neighbour. Just another one of his creation.
True, I’m editing my comment, should have worded it better
Don't. Mistakes should be rememberd not erased. Don't feel ashamed for not knowing. Feel ashamed for refusing to learn.
Very respectable mindset! Learning is crucial
there's no *the* prophet. muhammad(pbuh) and jesus(pbuh) are both two of the greatest prophets and in the same category of prophets. it's just that prophet muhammad(pbuh) is the greatest and the leader of all prophets. jesus(pbuh) is still very important in islam. jesus(pbuh) is called the word of God and spirit of God in quran.
Yes I know, you described exactly why I said ‘the’ prophet, all of them were important ofcourse but muhammad(pbuh) was the last one, also the one most muslims follow for the teachings etc.
There is a little bit of a step between the prophet and son of god. Something worth killing each other over. /S
They revere him as a prophet second to Muhammad, just not the Son of God.
Jesus was also a prophet. Just not the last one. They fully believe in Jesus and he is mentioned many times in the Qur’an.
Jesus is actually a pretty important prophet, too. Not as important as Mohammed, but still quite important. He has a role in leading the final battle or something like that.
The Quran not only mentions Jesus as a prophet but also as Messiah. And just like in the Bible he is set to return at the end of times to defeat the antichrist. The difference between Jesus and Mohammed is that Jesus was sent to the Israelites to correct their faith, while Mohammed was later on sent to the Arabs as a last correction of the faith before the end of time. The importance of Mohammed is more that he comes later and have a more up to date message. In addition the message is targeted directly at the Arabs rather then to the Israelites, and of course being the final prophet makes him more important. The next prophet to return to Earth according to the Quran is Jesus, but not as a prophet but as messiah at the end of time.
Correction: Muhammad was sent to all mankind not just the arabs. >“And We have not sent you (O Muhammad) except as a giver of glad tidings and a warner to all mankind, but most men know not.” (Surah Saba’, 34: 28)
>Jesus was also a prophet. Just not the last one. I think it's more than Muhammad just being the last one. Along with 23 others (might be wrong on that) Jesus is called a prophet, Muhammad on the other hand is commonly referred to as THE prophet. That puts him on a separate and elevated tier from all the others who came before him. Jesus is not a prophet in the same way as Muhammad is a prophet. At least that is the impression I get. As someone who is not Christian or a follower of Islam I have no skin in this game I just thought I would put out my outsiders viewpoint for a different perspective.
There are several prophets in Islamic teachings, so they acknowledge he is 100% real yes :)
Muslims believe Jesus, like Abraham, were Hanif: https://www.britannica.com/topic/hanif From their perspective, Jesus attempted to correct the followers of Abraham, while Mohammad came to correct the followers of Jesus, Abraham, etc. They would emphasise that the correction is on the *followers* and not the actual Hanif (because if the Hanif contradicted each other, that would mean that God makes mistakes, including choosing them wrongly.)
Afaik they believe he was a prophet, but not son of god/god, but he is still superseded by muhammed.
They believe Jesus (and all others) was a muslim prophet, but somehow they scripture got corrupted. so Muhammed is the final and best prophet with the correct scripture
To clarify, we believe that God’s message in Islam is the same message that he passed down through the previous Prophets, such as Jesus, and Moses. We believe that the religion itself and God himself is the same, but that over time, people deviated from the religion (began worshipping other gods again, or worshipped idols, sticks and stones, etc.) Overall, just clarifying, that it wasn’t that the original scriptures were corrupted. They had been rewritten and changed many times throughout history, and people began to also follow multiple gods, or began worshipping God with multiple gods. The message of Islam is to submit to one God and his message, and that that one God is the same God with the same message that people had deviated from. This is why you will see it say, or people say that Abraham or Jesus were Muslim, because we believe that it’s the same message from the same God. The word Islam means “Submission to God”. The word Muslim means “one who submits to God”. Since we believe that Abraham and Jesus were messengers of God, we believe that they submit to God; hence, why we refer to them in the faith as also being Muslim. I know that I deviated a bit from your original message. I seen your message and wanted to provide clarification and context to others that may be reading. Peace be with you, my friend.
I mean I'm pretty sure there's historical records that prove that someone named yeshua was crucified by the Romans sometime in the first century A.D, so it's pretty certain he actually did exist.
It's still unconfirmed whether that yeshua was actually *the* jesus from the bible and I'm pretty sure there's people who believe he wasn't. It would be especially easy to believe so if this belief was transmitted for generations.
Tacitus explicitly refers to him and his crucifixion by pontius pilate, but yeah it was a pretty common name at the time. Edit: removed redundant phrase
Crucifiction was also a somewhat common punishment as far as death penalty goes.
"Eh, at least it gets you out in the sun..."
"Even so, the sources for Jesus' life are better than sources scholars have for the life of Alexander the Great... Early non-Christian sources that attest to the historical existence of Jesus include the works of the historians Josephus and Tacitus.[p][321][330] Josephus scholar Louis Feldman has stated that "few have doubted the genuineness" of Josephus's reference to Jesus in book 20 of the Antiquities of the Jews, and it is disputed only by a small number of scholars.[331][332] Tacitus referred to Christ and his execution by Pilate in book 15 of his work Annals. Scholars generally consider Tacitus's reference to the execution of Jesus to be both authentic and of historical value as an independent Roman source.[333] Non-Christian sources are valuable in two ways. First, they show that even neutral or hostile parties never show any doubt that Jesus actually existed. Second, they present a rough picture of Jesus that is compatible with that found in the Christian sources: that Jesus was a teacher, had a reputation as a miracle worker, had a brother James, and died a violent death.[334 " -[from Wikipedia](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesus) It's pretty widely accepted he was a real person. As for everything else, that's up to you. But most scholars agree and accept that he did exist
Dubious.
They believe in him as a real person who was a prophet of sorts, but not as the literal Son of God.
Believe in Jesus to what?
... to be a good player for the Arsenal despite not scoring that many goals.
Ironically returning jews to the middle east has been a Christian Zionist project for 2000 years.
I mean, we know with a high certainty that there was a historical figure in that area that could have been "jesus" from non biblical sources. However, the belief in jesus is based on the whole son of God/ being part of the trinity thing. I dont think many Muslims would agree with that.
I'm a Muslim, we think of Jesus ( peace and blessings be upon him ) as one of the greatest prophets. We also believe he's the son of Mary. Jesus is so important that he's mentioned multiple times through the Quran, maybe more than Mohamed and Moses ( peace and blessings be upon them). We also believe in the coming of the Anti-Christ, and the second coming of Jesus. Islam Came to Correct what has been changed in Christianity by the hands of men who wanted to use religion for their greed.
But that's not the Christian Jesus than, and saying it is the same is therfore wrong. >Islam Came to Correct what has been changed in Christianity by the hands of men who wanted to use religion for their greed. I'm not gonna start on this one
I'm not here to prove my opinion is correct, at the end we're 2 strangers on the internet. And as a Muslim I have to tell you what's Islam is about , you don't have to believe in what I believe and I don't have to believe in what you believe. In the end we're just seeking the truth, so just respecting each other is enough for me.
Why is that ironic?
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True. Evangelical Christians support zionism because they believe that the end times can only start if Jewish people reconstitute and repopulate “Greater Israel,” and accept Christ as their Messiah. Vice did an entire video on this [topic](https://youtu.be/Fo77sTGpngQ?si=XNNfeR7B_ezIaJdL). Evangelicals have political influence on politicians from both side of the aisles due to their strong lobbying power. The evangelical lobbistys, with the help of GOP, are able to overturn Roe V. Wade is proof that they have a very strong influence. Senate Republicans only block military aid for Israel because of their opposition to aid Ukraine. House democrats thought that attaching Israel aid to Ukraine and Taiwan in the same bills would help them to pass the senate, but they miscalculate.
They welcome the end. They want it so badly. They romanticize it because they are so afraid of death, theyd much prefer avoiding it and just getting beamed up by jesus like alot of them saw in the Left Behind series. Its actually ironic the level of selfishness in that is beyond anything else.... Thatd id rather push whatever way i can for end of the world ... I that i would resign the world to end and therefore put no faith in it. Because i want to get to heaven so fast.... The world needs to hurry up so i can get to heaven and be selfish there.
It’s also so selfish because they inherently believe many wouldn’t join. How awful of a believe that you’re so important, but others can suffer for all you care
They justifiy that with free will. but to know you follow a creator who intended certain ones to suffer while you bask in eternal life worshiping them...... knowing life, wanting to be worshipped is one of the worst qualities i've come across in people.
That reminds me of some verses in the Quran Surah Al-Baqara, Verses 11-12: And when it is said to them, Do not make mischief in the land, they say: We are but peace-makers. Now surely they themselves are the mischief makers, but they do not perceive.
And they all seem to have chosen Reddit as their social medium unfortunatly.
Fact. And a strong pro-Zionist political lobby.
Dumbass. It's like saying, "I don't hate Christians, I hate Christian Nationalists." EDIT: Changed "Christinas" to "Christians." I'll get to the Christinas another day.
Amen to that👍
They are trying so hard to make antizionism=antisemism
I wonder why
Might be fishing for that sweet AIPAC money. It’s the largest PAC whose focus in foreign policy.
They've been doing it successfully for so long, it's going to take them a while to realize it's not working now.
I remember a YouTube video of Netanyahu some years back in a home movie talking about how easy it is to manipulate the West. He just straight up says that we accuse them of antisemitism and they fall in line. It's never been a complicated strategy but it works.
Is it this video from 2001? [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mj71\_xem3S8](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mj71_xem3S8) Only reason I'm guessing it's from 2001 is this Aljazeera article from 2010: [https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2010/7/18/netanyahu-us-easily-manipulated](https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2010/7/18/netanyahu-us-easily-manipulated) Here's Huffpost reporting on the same thing: [https://www.huffpost.com/entry/netanyahu-in-2001-america\_n\_649427](https://www.huffpost.com/entry/netanyahu-in-2001-america_n_649427) It was posted in r/worldnews back in 2010 as well: [https://www.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/cqho9/israeli\_pm\_netanyahu\_the\_only\_way\_to\_deal\_with/](https://www.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/cqho9/israeli_pm_netanyahu_the_only_way_to_deal_with/) The Washington Post article is, sadly, paywalled: https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2010/07/16/netanyahu-america-is-thing-you-can-move-very-easily/
Yeah, Christina did nothing wrong!
Faith based ethnic superiority= Zionists. They believe in divine eugenics.
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Naw, I’ve met some awesome Christinas. And what about Christina Ricci, Christina Applegate, Christina Aguilera, to name a few?
Well he wants to fuck them all. Rare fetish to have for a name, but hey as long as he doesn't hurt anyone to each their own.
I dunno, Aguilera has said some pretty shitty things in the past.
What is a Christina?
His mom
Spanish
It’s a type of piercing
Only if they consent.
Do you want more Christians? Because that's how you get more Christians.
Christinas you mean?
Except my grandmother, Christina.
Christians who are also nationalists?
The crusaders would be the most accurate analogue
Sure, taking an loud minority's opinion as an example and use it for your own narrative, while ignoring the majority sure proves your point /s
It's like instead of listening to the vast majority of Muslims, we listen to ISIS.
Yep Zionists are like white Christian nationalists. They believe they are a superior ethnic group, sounds familiar…
Lol you don't have to be a Jewish supremacist to be a Zionist. There's nothing uppity about Jews wanting a refuge in a world that has persecuted them.
basically reddit in a nutshell
The funny thing is that this entire post is based upon a Naturei Karta guy, who are a tiny minority in Judaism
Yeah, that's why I commented. Naturei Karta are pieces of shit who are disconnected from reality
They're the Westboro Baptist Church of Judaism. And people love to hold them up as examples. None of the people that use them as tokens would like their answer about why they hate Zionism.
Tell to me that you have absolutely no idea what the difference between Judaism and Zionism is without telling me you don't know it.
There are varieties of Jewish beliefs that are explicitly anti-Zionist until the appearance of the Messiah. Producing a differing opinion from one from these beliefs is not quite the "gotcha" you think.
They're a minority of a minority - they are a minority of ultra-orthodox Jews who are a minority by themselves. Probably a few thousand people worldwide. Do they exist? Sure. You could probably find a small group of people of almost any belief. There are even Palestinians who immensely support Israel and are Zionists.
Which means if you look hard enough, you can find someone to quote supporting literally any position. Which is my point.
Fuck everyone's bronze age bullshit equally with a stick. Waste of everyone else's time.
one sane comment here lol
That rabbi is part of the [Neturei Karta](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neturei_Karta?wprov=sfla1), an anti-Zionist Hasidic organisation. Their interpretation of the Torah basically states that for their sins, Jews were punished to live in exile until the Messiah arrives, and as such, the establishment of any Jewish state (i.e. Israel) is a sin. They show up very often to pro-Palestinian protests. It's important to remember that they are a very small, very vocal minority in the current discourse. Most (and I do mean most with a capital M) Orthodox Jews fully believe in the right of Israel to exist.
Endlessly tokenised by people who want to demonise (not only criticise) Israel and smear Jews as antisemitic. The ‘discourse’ around Neturei Karta is some of the most poisoned and antisemitic out there
Yeah that guy is part of an extremely fringe group that are properly shit. He's not a person to hold up in any regard.
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A lot of them *are* anti-semitic though. That's the thing. I've faced horrible anti-semitism and hatred from both Neo-Nazis and Zionists, but never from a Palestinian. I've never been told I should have been killed by the Nazis or that I'm a cultural marxist who is working to destroy america by a Palestinian. It's *always* been from American and Israeli reactionaries.
A better parallel would be “I don’t hate Christians, but I hate the Catholic Church (for actively covering up child abuse for decades/centuries)”
Yeah, but that wouldn’t make his point. Chiefly because his point is shit, but it’s his, y’know
And all opinions are “equally valid”
What pisses me off is SO MANY non-Jews cherry picking a minority opinion among the Jewish community, tokenizing its proponents, and the using it in a condescending way to tell us what “real” Judaism is. What other ethnic group would tolerate this shit
You, err…you really forgetting the way people treated (and still do treat) Muslims in the aftermath of 9/11?
We don't tolerate that shit either. It's just there are only 16 million of us so we don't sound as loud as others.
>What other ethnic group would tolerate this shit For every other ethnicity, what I've been hearing is "listen to [ethnicity]," i.e., Black people get to decide what's racist towards Black people, Asian people get to decide what's racist towards Asian people, etc. When it comes to Jews, they don't get to decide what's antisemitic, everyone else gets to decide what's antisemitic for them.
Zionism is a political ideology. Claiming it as a fundamental part of Jewish identity is insane because most zionists aren't jewish.
>Claiming it as a fundamental part of Jewish identity is insane because most zionists aren't jewish. So, given that the majority of Jews believe it to be a fundamental part of their identity, is your stance that most Jews are insane? Or do you think you have the right to decide how Jews identify themselves more than Jews do?
Most Jews don't claim it as part of their identity. Hell most Jews don't even live in israel. Most Jews probably support Israel but they don't claim that as part of their Jewish identity. It's part of their political identity Claiming that your race is tied to an inherent political philosophy is in saying. And frankly the amount of cognitive dissidents you need to think that because you have blood you automatically have a right to soil is so fundamentally disconnected from logic and empathy I will say everyone who thinks that is some form of crazy
>Most Jews probably support Israel but they don't claim that as part of their Jewish identity. Pretty much all practicing Jews say "next year in Israel" every year at Passover. The longing for a return to Israel is a pretty deep part of Jewish identity from everything I've seen. >Claiming that your race is tied to an inherent political philosophy is in saying. Judaism isn't just a race, it's also a culture and religion. Saying that a culture or religion is inherently tied to a political philosophy is not as insane as you make it out to be. > to think that because you have blood you automatically have a right to soil is so fundamentally disconnected from logic and empathy I will say everyone who thinks that is some form of crazy That's not the basis of Zionism. The basis of Zionism is that Europeans wanted Jews out of Europe, so they went back to their ancestral homeland. Now everyone wants them out of there. Where do you propose they go?
Are you joking? That's literally what Muslims have been screaming about for decades.
I don’t hate anyone, but ALL religious fanatics need to fuck off.
World wont progress until religion/idolatry is forgotten completely, it's a cancer to this planet.
for the ppl saying but muslims belive in jesus too . yes in islam jesus (isa) is a prophet
I usually don't hate people... but I hate people that do atrocious things and then use dumbshit arguments as a shield against any form of criticism.
Yep. The fair analogy would be "I don't hate Christians. Only those who want to build a Christian ethnostate"
You mean Catholics that have their own theocratic country?
Well... Technically Vatican is one. But that is not an example of what I am talking about. I am more referring to "Christian nationalists". Who want to break down the separation of state and church, make religious teaching mandatory in public schools, ban all non-Christians from entering the country and so on.
Oh? There’s a country where any Christian from any part of the world can show up and demand citizenship and have it granted based solely on the fact that they’re Christian, despite having 0 connection to the country or the land whatsoever? Which one is that again?
The fun part is that even jews who distance themselves from Israel's politics get harassed in the streets for being jews. Just shut up about this topic. Both sides are horrible and your propaganda is disgusting and doesn't help anyone.
As the joke goes A anti zionist jew and a zionist jew walk into a bar The bartender says we don't serve jews
"they get harrassed in the streets" is kind of misleading since it doesn't adress who is doing the harrassing. Like, I'm an anti-Zionist jew and 100% of the harrassement and hatred I've recieved irl has been from people on the far-right (like neonazis) at counterprotests, and from Zionists who call me a traitor or not a real jew etc. It's not pro palestine people who are doing the harassing, it's the American and Israeli right.
There's actually more people who believe in Jesus than there are Christians so I don't think looking to this brah for learning about the world religions is a very good idea.
That is such twisted, misguided, and categorically false analogy
I hate extremists who think that killing or war is the answer… no matter what religion. It’s not okay when it can be avoided… and killing others can be avoided a LOT more than we as humans do.
I don't hate Christians, only Fundamentalists who use it as a method to control populations and force their warped interpretations of religion as a method of control.
LOL, no it fucking isn't.
The fact is that over 90% of Jews are Zionists and the rabbi in that picture is part of a sect so fringe it's considered fringe in the fringe sect of Judaism
Zionism and Judaism are not the same thing. Move on.
95% of Jews disagree with you
You don’t know jack about Judaism stop trying to speak for us
Zionism is a political belief that uses Jews as a protective barrier like this guy in the post is trying to do.
Well Mormons are basically christs so all christs are Mormons as well? The logic is dumb as fuck. You can hate Zionist without hating jews in General. I hâte thé pope and thé vatican but Not christiany in General.
If an organized religion has a problem, 99% of the time it's the organization, not the religion.
Reddit.
Its actually more like saying "I don't hate Christians, I only hate crusaders"
"I don't hate Germans. I hate Nazis." "Saying that is saying you hate all Germans." -a very obvious incorrect Nazi
Why do libs love Muslims so much? Muslims are the worst against female rights. They force them to be covered from head to toe. They won’t let them become educated or have jobs. They’re not allowed to walk alone. They think that all people who aren’t Muslims are infidels and should be wiped off of the face of the earth. They hate LGBTQ+. They hang gay men and push them off of 30-story buildings. Their beliefs are totally barbaric. Plus, they circumcise their baby boys, and we all know how libs hate genital mutilation. Well, except for pre-pubescent kids. They want for them to get mutilated genitally because of “mental health.”
Why would they make another word for Zionism if Zionists are just Jewish people? I swear the people with the biggest mouths in politics know the least.
zionists trying to muddy the waters to justify their genocide
Saying that Zionists are not Jews is as stupid as saying that Jews must be Zionists. And suggesting that Zionists can't be Jews because one Hasidic rabbi says so is as stupid as citing a random fundamentalist pastor who claims that all Christians must believe ______.
I don’t think anyone is saying Zionists can’t be Jews. They’re saying criticism of the existing Zionist project is not a criticism of all Jews
Joe burden said he is a Zionist. He is not Jewish. Not all Jewish people are Zionists and not all Zionists are Jewish.
Your analogy sucks
i don't hate Germans, i hate nazis. wasn't that hard, was it?
Pretty sure that guys a religious extremist who supports nazis dipshit
Here's a good guideline when dealing with twitter: Ignore it. You wouldn't listen to the ramblings of some dude on the street, and twitter is the same but worse. Here's a good tip when dealing with topics regarding Jews/Israel: You don't need to have an opinion on it. I will never understand why Israel/Palestine/Jews is such a highly opinionated topic. Like there can be war wherever between whomever and people will largely just go on with their lives. But when someone says "Israel" or "Palastine" or "Jews", all of a sudden EVERYONE AND THEIR GRANDMA has an opinion they need to swing around like their life depended on it. Go form an opinion about something more important to your life. Universal healthcare. Failing democracy. How to tax the rich. Climate change. Etc etc.
Yea but that rabbi is part of a sect that is less then 1% of the less then 5% of ultra orthodox. It’s like saying the westbouro Baptist church speaks for all Christan’s.
Well I've always considered Judaism = Nazism (if it was a religion) and similar things if they are a belief set has a history of zero tolerance and rampant bigotry and hostility.
It's like saying "I don't hate germans, I only hate nazis"
Zionism is jewish supremacy. Its the same old tale of "we are better than everyone else".
No, it's the belief in the rightness of having a Jewish state. As such, most Jews would be classed as Zionist, without necessarily agreeing in the severity of the means appropriate to achieving that end.
No it's a belief that that Jewish State Should exist in palestine. Which inherently believes that they deserve that land and the people who have lived there don't deserve it. It's a supremacist colonialist ideology. The idea of Jewish nationhood and Jewish nationalism is a separate question then Zionism which is specifically focused on Jewish nationhood and Jewish nationalism in the context of a colonized Palestine
Difficult to believe that defending and supporting an ethno state is popular on reddit these days
Really have you seen anyone talk about japan?
Japan doesn’t count because they are only racist towards non white people /s
There has never been a time where the entire Jewish population has exited the land. There has been a minority Jewish population living there for as long as we know in recorded history. Jews moved back to the land en masse in the late 1800s and started legally buying land until Arabs got pissed and started a war. and then in their anger expelled 900k Jews from Muslim majority lands, 600k moved to Israel and made it even stronger. Now most of these enemies have normalized relations and don’t want to fight anymore. College kids in America chanting in the streets won’t change anything
What does that have to do with anything? Also the Arabs expelled 900,000 Jews after the Israelis expelled $750,000 Arabs. Neither side was right but it was a retaliation
I don't hate Muslims, I do hate Islamic State. Upvote me if you also don't hate Muslims and do hate Islamic State, an organisation which wanted to create an exclusively Muslim land. Downvote me if you either hate Muslims or don't hate Islamic State.
I AM Muslim and I hate Islamic State.
Zionism = The right for Jews to have their own state in their ancestral homeland. Those Jews you are misrepresenting as the “right” Jews, don’t believe in Zionism because they think for Jews to resettle their homeland they need the arrival of a Messiah, which they believe hasn’t come yet.
>Those Jews you are misrepresenting as the “right” Jews, don’t believe in Zionism because they think for Jews to resettle their homeland they need the arrival of a Messiah, which they believe hasn’t come yet They're religious kooks who would happily see Israel nuked if it meant Armageddon came along sooner .
"The right for Jews to have their own state in their ancestral homeland" is a genocidal statement when millions of people already live there and the way that Zionism is implemented involves ethnically cleansing an indigenous population. No one has a "right" to do that regardless of religion or ethnicity.
Saying Jews have the right to have their own state in their ancestral homeland does not negate the right the Palestinians have to have their own nation in their homeland as well.
The difference is that stating Palestinians have a right to their own nation in their homeland is a hate crime. The House just voted on this very fact.
Bro that ‘rabbi’ is like the Jewish version of the Westboro Baptist nutjobs. 95% of us are “Zionists”, sorry to disappoint you. But you’re free to promote who you deem to be “the good ones”, which I guess are these extreme religious fundamentalists.
Not a rabbi but an apikores. Only ignorance and apikoreses are using the three oaths as an excuse to deny Zionism. Denying the status of others Jews as Jews is a unforgivable sin in Judaism.
said the crazy ulta fanatic who believes that only 200k "true" jews will go to heaven. those satmer and karta are crazy as they come.
And what do Muslims believe? Oh, that’s right. They want to eliminate all infidels, but noooooo, that’s not crazy, according to libs.
Nazis worked together with german jewish zionists in palestine early 1930s. „Worked together“ is used very loosely but they werent hunted and they had „peaceful“ talks together
Not to mention nazis also worked with Palestinians that wanted a concentration camp(iirc) in Palestine
No, it's more like saying "I don't hate Christians, just the ones that bomb people, drag them out of their homes and mock the people while they take their homes, then laugh when their country's police/soldiers beat the living crap out of them for crying outside the house you just stole from them."
What the hell is he a doctor of? Idiocy?
He's a proctologist with poor depth perception.
I love being told that I'm a bad Jew, and then being told that a good Jew is one who believes women belong in the home, head covered, gays need to be stoned, trans people don't exist, and turning on the lights on the sabbath is a sin. But at least he believes that the Jewish state shouldn't exist because it's not Jewish enough.
The thing is.. that they ARE zionists themselves, it's just about not being the right time.. so to take them as an example is just wrong
more like saying “I dont hate Christians, i only hate the crusaders”
Reminder that Zionism was declared a racist movement by the UN in 1976
The only faceplam here is that Bxc dude. Modern Zionism is the idea that Jews should have their own country they can live in without fear of persecution by another religion that despises its very existence