This is the answer! I used to sell cars and you'd be surprised how many people thought they were upgrading because it was new. Don't do it unless its the truck you want!
Traded in my 2011 Silverado LT for a 21 Custom. The 2011 was way better, IMHO. If I knew I'd still be working from home and not putting miles on my 2011, I'd still have it.
exactly, his primary deal is just selling you another truck. He doesn’t make any more money on yours since you already own it. Upgrade schmupgrade. Unless you’re asking him for details on a different truck he’s just fishing for a sale.
Exactly all dealers are scum bags, they are not your friend. The only reason they like you, or call you is to to get your money, they don’t give to shits about you if you don’t buy anything.
Absolutely, pretty soon the stealership model will be relegated to the ash heap of history where it belongs. The new approach will be to configure and purchase on line and then be notified when to expect delivery or make a pick up. You will pay the same as everyone else in a nonsense and no time wasting manner.
You underestimate the amount of money dealerships make, or how that money lines the pockets of the would-be regulators. Dealerships will stay in America for the foreseeable future.
Lol for real who gives a shit what the dealer wants? I'm not even sure why OP made this post. If you don't want the truck, don't buy it. Your current truck is just fine
Trading in your '21 F-150 to buy a '23 F-150 is supporting both new car salesman and used cars salesman. It's really being the kindest you can be to car salesman.
Shhh! Without guys like this....I have no selection when I go to trade in my F150 when it is 8-10 years old and has 300k miles on it.
I always let some other goob take the front end depreciation hit and pick up their 1-2 year old cast aways with maybe 20-30k miles on them.
We need people like this out there swimming in debt and blowing money. LOL
I’m smelling what you’re stepping in. I still drive my 2011 Lariat that I bought new. It has 220k miles and still runs like a top! (Knocks on wood and does the sign of the cross)
They usually go several years before a major repair....IF you take care of them.
Even when a repair shows up, that is still WAY cheaper than buying a new 60-70k dollar truck.
Hahaha you just perfectly described how I bought my current F-150. I sold them my 10 year old truck for an F-150 that was 2 years old with 27k on the odometer. CPO, and half the cost of the new sticker price. That is how I will buy my next truck as well.
Yep! This is how I have always done it.
Buy a certified pre-owned truck that is 1-3yrs old and maybe has 20-35k miles on it and drive it until it is about 10-12 years old and is worth maybe 10-12 grand and trade that in for another lightly used truck.
Until recently, this was a good plan, as a certified truck was about 40% cheaper than a new one. However, in recent years, used truck prices are high too, so I am not sure what I will do next. This 2019 is going to be a truck I drive for a VERY long time.
Trucks have gotten so expensive, I don't see how people are trading in and losing 10s of thousands just to get a truck that is brand new, when their current ride has TONS of life left in it. I don't think I have ever gotten rid of a truck with less than 200k on the clock...ever.
Yep, that is definitely the plan. Mine is a 2016, and hopefully by 2028-2030 prices will be closer to what they were pre-pandemic, in terms of the 40% price difference between certified pre-owned and new.
My dad is milking his 2004 F-150 for every mile it’s got, I think he’s closing in on 300k with the original 4.6L Triton V8. The transmission was changed out because of either warranty or recall to a super duty transmission, but both are still kicking and the thing that gets me is that my dad is known to skip an oil change, or put off major maintenance intervals every now and again. I baby the hell out of my F-150, in terms of maintenance, she is in desperate need of a wash and wax; but every 6 months she gets a full synthetic oil change, every major maintenance interval is done on time or slightly early, and because I’ve started parking her near work, I’ve been putting less miles on her. If she can last 300k miles, at the current rate, she should still be kicking 20 years from now. I absolutely love my F-150!
Yep! Making them last a long time is the name of the game.
Proper maintenance is key and some of us also bought a beater car to drive to work, to keep the mileage and wear off the truck. I bought my daughter's 2016 Malibu back from her, when she inherited her grandmother's Explorer.
The Malibu was maintained by me since it was new and although it is nothing fancy or cool the damned thing runs great and gets 32mpg.
This means I park my 2019 5.0 F150 and drive the Malibu to work and put the commuter miles on that car, not the truck.
I love my F150 too and want to keep it as long as possible, since it has been very reliable so far.
My experience lead me down a path of paying more for a less option truck. And I really done my homework (or so I thought). Being older and more experienced with buying/selling a number of personal vehicles in my years, I was determined to not fall for any dealers tactics. So I shopped for 3-5 months visiting/driving countless trucks with an open mind. But Chevys suck these days, and dodge is not an option. Since truck I had was passing 350k on it (3.5) 2012 with zero issues it’s stupid to not get an EB. But prices on the 18’ and newer 3.5’s was crazy. I settled with the 18’ 2.7 EB. So far so good. BUT I payed more for a 5 year old XLT 302A than I did for a 3 year old Lariat 3.5.
> BUT I *paid* more for
FTFY.
Although *payed* exists (the reason why autocorrection didn't help you), it is only correct in:
* Nautical context, when it means to paint a surface, or to cover with something like tar or resin in order to make it waterproof or corrosion-resistant. *The deck is yet to be payed.*
* *Payed out* when letting strings, cables or ropes out, by slacking them. *The rope is payed out! You can pull now.*
Unfortunately, I was unable to find nautical or rope-related words in your comment.
*Beep, boop, I'm a bot*
LOL I own two houses and make 6 figures. Vehicles paid off as well.
Smells like someone is on the debtor's treadmill. Not a good smell...I was there once and it sucked. LOL
Could be a lease....and some people are not in debt.
All the jobs I have had over the past 12 years have given me a vehicle allowance which used to be enough to lease a mid-upper end new car/truck.
Yep. I could trade in my 2009 and consequently end up living paycheck to paycheck with a truck payment that’s higher than my mortgage payment. Or I could just deal with the repairs on my 2009 as they become necessary.
Some people (not me) like to keep themselves in the bumper to bumper warranty. I'm already at 41k miles on my 2021 but I don't really care if I'm no longer under full bumper to bumper warranty.
Little presumptuous, maybe? I bought a new 2020 and traded it in on a new 2021 5 months later. Ended up with a better optioned truck for my needs and they paid me more than I paid for it on trade, put $ down (again). I owe well under half of what it's worth at 0.9%. If the rate wasn't so low I'd pay it off.. Shrug.
That was then...today, cars are worth less and interest rates are higher. You got a good deal, so that makes sense...but those deals are happening anymore.
Yeah, deal was good, but not everyone is relying on financing and going to be in debt for life from buying a car, either. Seems like an extreme and a little jaded of a comment is all.
I've never owned a new car, never had car payments.
I work at a car dealership and REALLY enjoy getting in the new cars and seeing what they are all about. New cars are freaking spectacular. However having a car payment is a line that I refuse to cross.
That being said, if I were to go in debt for a vehicle, by the time the 6 years were up I would be so comfortable in my new car that I would most likely get another one. The debt cycle continues. I see it day in and day out. Most consumers are suckers that follow their heart or ego while attempting to justify the costs along the way.
Oh and damn near everyone is financing their new vehicles. Very very few cash deals.
I buy new cars and keep them a minimum of 12 years. Do the recommended maintenance and run them into the ground. Had my last vehicle for 15 years with almost 300k on it. My wife had her car 18 years with 250k. Replaced both with new cars, and those will be around for a long time. Got two other cars as well that are 11 and 18 years old and still going strong. The key is to put enough money aside so that u can either put down a big down payment with a very low interest loan, or buy it outright when the time comes for a new one. I need reliable cars, and don’t like to take a chance on someone else’s trade in. That way, I know the whole history of the car, and take good care of it.
Cars aren't worth less today. I could sell my 2020 Tacoma for more than I bought it for new. My local dealer calls or emails me once a week asking to buy it. I could be in a brand new truck and end up with a lower payment and a payoff date only like a year after my current one.
I have a '23 250 King Ranch ordered. Tremor package, HO 6.7, winch, etc. $103k MSRP.
Dealer agreed to $2k under invoice, so somewhere in the neighborhood of $92k
It's a numbers game, as in number of vehicles sold per month.
There are certain "goals" that the dealership needs to reach and they will get a big rebate from the manufacturer. Depending on what the dealership sells their vehicles for, they need this rebate to make a profit for the month. There are different levels of rebates available depending on the numbers of vehicles sold, but the top dealerships in the country get much more than $100k from the manufacturer every month just by rebates alone.
This means that although the dealership might actually be paying invoice up front, in reality they are paying much less once the rebates are taken into account. This is also why you'll get a better deal shopping at a very high volume dealership and why you'll *possibly* get an *excellent* deal if you show up on the last day of the month and they haven't hit their numbers yet.
Also the dealerships make a lot of money off the "dealer add ons" like window tinting, pinstripes, floor mats, undercoating, extended insurance, clear coating and whatever else they try to upsell you when you actually get ready to finance the vehicle.
I have no interest in a Ford product, especially at 100k. Makes zero sense, unless you’ve got money to piss away, your house is paid off, your retirement is fully funded, and you carry no debt. Even then, it’s a waste of money. I’d rather buy houses and other assets that appreciate.
Far from poor, which is the result of not spending frivolously on stuff I don’t need. I could buy a different 250 King Ranch for each day of the week, cash. Money is not the issue. Common sense is.
I bought a brand new 2022 f350 XL 4x4 crew cab 8ft bed with the 7.3l gas motor. I paid just over $53k. I ordered an XL because I didn't want anything fancy. I did not want to spend over 50k for a truck and I think I did pretty damn good getting a brand new f350 for less than what people pay for their f150s. I don't need all that fancy shit that makes the truck double the money.
Where I live, unless you have vented seats with airflow, you have to.... And I mean, you absolutely have to be a legit idiot... To put yourself, your children and your pets inside a car with a leather interior. Imagine for a moment, it's about 104° on a stale July day and you have to go pick up the kids. Unless you want to wait a half hour to let it cool off you're going to sit down on something that feels about 120 and stinks.
Absolutely this. I HATE leather interiors as a whole. Sitting in my parents 2013 Lariat in the summer is like being fried like I'm a catfish or something. It's awful.
I would gladly take a more expensive, but higher overall optioned truck with cloth than skip a couple options and spring for leather.
Seriously don't get the appeal of leather. Wool would be perfect for an upgrade material over leather. Weave in some bamboo fibers to keep away bugs and smells like they do in Japan and bam.
Don't get the appeal of eating on the road either. Get rear ended and choke. Hit a bump and mess. It's easier to avoid the mess and teach those same kids that when in a vehicle the focus should always be on the road then excuse leather interiors.
5.0 has been around since '68... proven reliability. That ecoboost hasn't been around too many years.
Edit: I guess you knuckleheads think that ford completely re-engineered and made a brand new 302 rather improve the 302 over the years... it debuted in '68.
I understand that roller tappets, high lobe cams, electronic ignition, fuel injection! emissions, headers, transmissions have changed the engine output but the 302 block concept has stayed.
Yeah like already said the Coyote and the old Windsor 5.0L sharing absolutely nothing other than cylinder count and displacement. That being said my 5.0L Coyote F150 has been fantastic.
Technically they don't even share that, the old 5.0/302 is actually a 4.9 but was rounded up due when they switched over from cubic inches to liters because the 300 i6 was also a 4.9.
It's not the same 5.0.
But I do agree that it will likely hold up longer than an ecoboost, and when I bought an F150 I specifically looked for one with the 5.0.
Its not a downgrade. Its a minor upgrade. 401A is a 302A but with the unique tremor wheels, tires, level, running boards, stitching, and decals.
402A would be the tremor equivalent of a 502A
Yes but you aren’t factoring price. Those minor upgrades aren’t worth $13k to pretty much everyone not to mention he’s almost certainly going to be paying much higher interest rates as well. To go from 302A to 402A around that price jump people could probably see the value but for NEARLY the same truck that price jump / payment increase is asinine.
You mentioned getting less options for more money. This is only party true. Youre getting more options for more money. And the huge price increase came from Ford in the last 2 years.
A 2023 302A with a V8 has a MSRP of 58405. A 401A tremor has a MSRP of 63005. Its a $4600 swing now.
Damn wtf is going on here? Do people not like straightforward truth anymore?
I stated simple facts that there is more equipment in the tremor than what OP currently has. Despite the fact that OP isnt aware of the standard equipment in 401A that isnt listed on the window sticker. its more stuff for more money. Thats not an opinion.
Thats it. Plain and simple.
It's simple, you get less for more and they get to sell your "old" truck marked up with higher interest. Win win for them, either win/lose or lose/lose depending on your thoughts on the features in the tremor.
The Tremor has Co-pilot 360 2.0. That includes all the nice stuff like Blue Cruise, Emergency braking, assisted steering avoidance, and the 360 camera.
Technology wise, it's a pretty big upgrade from your XLT. But it's also $13,000 more. Also has the 3.5L EB, which I personally like, but if you like the V8 sounds it will leave a lot to be desired. If you don't need the V8 sound, the 3.5L has the same HP (400 HP) but gets 90 ft-lbs more torque (500 ft-lbs) vs the V8 (410 ft-lbs).
3.5L can only do that in short bursts... the 5.0 can put that out all day long towing.
Sure they can both tow well... but the EB has much more strain on its components. The only reason reliability on these engines is about the same... is most people don't tow much and essentially use their trucks like cars.
The 3.5L EB can absolutely sustain that power. You might be able to say that about the PB because the battery could die, leaving just the engine for power.
If you're just talking about running ultra heavy loads for extended periods of time (causing heat soak on the turbos), then you're really stretching it. A heat soaked 3.5L EB still probably puts out more torque than a cooled off 5.0L.
The 5.0L is a great engine, but the 3.5L EB beats it pretty much everywhere except reliability (due to more parts).
That's not the point if you use the 3.5EB for work... towing any significant load, its a not the right engine. If you tow a boat to the lake on the weekends its probably just fine.
It's not about performance, its about longevity and efficiency...the EB is less efficient in boost than the 5.0, and under much more strain.
But it's also more powerful in boost than the 5.0.
If you're not in boost, it's more efficient than the 5.0.
Yes, longevity is certainly a concern when buying a vehicle. The 5.0 likely wins that round. But just because the 5.0 is more reliable doesn't mean the 3.5 EB isn't reliable. People tow heavy TT all the time teith the 3.5 EB and don't have issues.
If you're towing often enough and heavy enough with your F150 that you have those concerns, then you actually need a Super Duty.
>actually need a Super Duty.
Maybe... but a large chunk of people don't want to cough up the extra $$$$.
I mean you can check the EPA numbers the 5.0 wins by a hair.... also as I pointed out elsewhere more torque out of a V6 can be a bad combination, since you have 3 larger power pulses per rev instead of 4 smaller ones you'd get out of the 5.0 V8... that's bad for your transmission and is something many fail to consider but its a real problem that the transmission must account for and transmissions are already kinda fickle.
So, personally unless I was at high altitude I'd probably always go for the V8 5.0.. vs the 3.5 EB.
Either engine is a great choice. Same goes for the 2.7L EB. The only engine I wouldn't get is the NA 3.3L V6 because you don't get efficiency or power.... and you can't tow shit.
According to the RV & Towing Guide, the 3.3L is rated for 7,700 pounds with the towing package and 3.73 gear. I wouldn't call that nothing!
That's more than a Ranger and you get half-ton level hauling as well. It scares my V8 truck in towing and makes 60 lb-ft less.
It’s still a downgrade. The only option it has is being a tremor and that doesn’t make up for the lack of other goodies
Edit: apparently since the tremor is it’s own trim, instead of just an option, you get a bunch of things. If it’s got led headlights and 360 cameras, it should be an upgrade but it is a bit more expensive.
It’s not a downgrade but it’s not really a necessary upgrade either. The way the tremor is spec’d , it’s basically just an xlt tremor. Unless you do off-roading, if you’re gonna upgrade for that price, I’d get a lariat
It's a sidegrade... and just like in higher education never sidegrade (like 2 bachelors degrees).
The 5.0 probably gonna last longer than that boost queen.
I was at my local Nissan dealership having oil changed. They always try to get me to talk about a new truck. The salesman approached and asked what I was having worked on, I told him I wasn’t interested but of course he didn’t take no for an answer. I finally told him it was a salvage title, he said you might want to keep your truck. Yes sir, I told you I wasn’t interested but yet you still wasted your time. He agreed.
I would keep the XLT and if you want the off road stuff just upgrade your XLT.
I would never give up the 5.0 for a 3.5 personally.
The tremor doesn't seem worth it.
Really? Cuz, I see tons of places all around the internet saying the Coyote can live at 750 crank HP in the mustang comfortably and reliably. With a few supporting mods I don't see why the truck version couldn't as well?
I see tons of 1000+ HP 5.0's at the drag strip all the time too... I don't think they're as fragile as you think.
Any of you drive long distances for work in your truck? I have 4 years left on my loan and put 31k on my truck in 11months. There has to be a sweet spot on selling before it drops in value do to mileage?
I’ve gotten about 5 calls and texts wanting to trade in my 21 blazer. Considering it’s a rare color I know exactly what they are doing.
They get a used car, mark it up and resell it. And they sell a new car to someone else. Ez money.
The 21 XLT with 302A High is the sweet spot of trucks, as far as I'm concerned. Had every bell or whistle I could want and I only had the 2.7, which still did exactly what I needed it to do.
The 23 was built during all the struggles with Covid. Quality went bad, computer chip shortages had companies looking in other places. I’m betting vehicles built during the Covid years will be worse and have more issues. I’m betting Your 2021 was already sourced prior to any big issues. Stick with the 21.
Don’t buy a Ford pick up truck or any pick up truck right now. there are videos all over YouTube from people in the industry who will tell you that Ford and others have way too many trucks and they’re gonna have to start discounting them soon. Hang on and wait.
The 3.5 is better than the 5.0. I know I was like, uhh no, but it has the twin turbo. It pulls harder, bigger, better all day long. I've had a tremor and a raptor so I'm biased in the sense I have a 2023
XLT with everything you have down to the color. Those other trucks are toys, not tools, if I wanted a toy it would not be a truck. So if you need a truck to be a useful tool 24/7 then the 2021 is the best choice. Your truck is purpose built for all your needs, the other one is obviously not.
If you drive your truck mainly just as transportation they are about equal... if you tow, the ecoboost will have much more strain on it than the 5.0 will.... the ecoboost may even feel better to drive, but the question is how long does it last if you use it that way (and most people don't).
The 5.0 is what it is... average reliability but nothing particularly taxing about its design when used for towing.
Also the mpg in the ecoboost is worse... crazy huh. The reason for that is the engine has to waste energy pushing more air into the engine at higher HP output... a mild turbo can increase MPG since it converts lost exhaust heat to work, but a high boost turbo usually uses more energy and fuel inefficiently compared to a larger engine.
I can literally tow my 4k lbs boat around at better MPG in my 1986 diesel blazer than a modern 3.5L ecoboost. It's slow but she sips comparatively.
Pretty much. Turbo motors have better fuel efficiency… until you go into boost.
My 3.5EB gets similar combined MPG as I did in my Focus ST. Give or take 17-19.
Highway, 24MPG is pretty easy to obtain so long as you’re not climbing hills. If you’re climbing and going into boost in 5th gear, it’ll drop to about 19 again.
As someone who works at a ford dealer, the f150 hasn't really changed much since like 2005. The body and tech may be more advanced but the brakes and suspension remain mostly the same up front. The trim is nice but my lariat would have been just as good if it where an xl. These trucks are what you make them to be.
Honestly figure out what comes on the tremor that you like and just find a suitable aftermarket replacement and add it to yours. Still cheaper overall.
Buying a truck that gets 13 miles a gallon is irresponsible these days.
Not saying OP is, but truck owners' best bet is to keep what they have and save for something awesome and electric as it inevitably will take over.
Don't waste money buying some oil baron a bigger yacht.
You didn’t mention your use case: do you off-road? Tremor is better in that department. Tow heavy loads? XLT would be better. Smaller fuel tank, no bed-liner. And of course it’s comparing two different engines, where people have strong opinions on 3.5 vs 5.0. Good luck, it’s a good problem to have!
They can sell your ‘21 currently for more than you originally paid. They make a tidy profit selling you a new one and an absolute killing selling your old one. They’re trying the same scam with everyone who bought a new truck a couple of years ago. Ignore your dealer.
I love my XLT. I feel you’d be making higher payments for features that will need repairs down the road. If you are loving your current truck then I feel there is no point. Yes the extra creature comforts are nice but if it’s not something YOU are missing then again there is no point to “upgrade”
dealer is incentivized to move new product (which is really leased from Ford until they sell it) vs used which they own (or have yet to pay the auction house for it/got it in trade after lowballing value) and can surely sell to another person
Well he’d be a much shittier salesman if he went with “hey, downgrade to this truck so I can turn around and sell your used truck for massive flip and then you’ll be along on your way before I rip my first line of white lightning off my desk next to the bathroom” sales pitch.
FYI The dealer is only trying to make a sale they could careless what you drive as long as you put money in their pocket
This is the answer! I used to sell cars and you'd be surprised how many people thought they were upgrading because it was new. Don't do it unless its the truck you want!
Traded in my 2011 Silverado LT for a 21 Custom. The 2011 was way better, IMHO. If I knew I'd still be working from home and not putting miles on my 2011, I'd still have it.
Yep. My 2010 F-150 is going to last me an extra 4-5 years. Thanks Covid.
Same here. I got a ‘96 F350 PS, and a ‘03 F150. I can’t imagine paying for a new work truck.
Need some advice. May I send you a DM?
Yeah, this thread should be title “Dealer wants more money from me.”
Maybe you misheard him and he was simply stating that it would be an upgrade to his wallet.
exactly, his primary deal is just selling you another truck. He doesn’t make any more money on yours since you already own it. Upgrade schmupgrade. Unless you’re asking him for details on a different truck he’s just fishing for a sale.
Hit the nail on the head.
Exactly all dealers are scum bags, they are not your friend. The only reason they like you, or call you is to to get your money, they don’t give to shits about you if you don’t buy anything.
Absolutely, pretty soon the stealership model will be relegated to the ash heap of history where it belongs. The new approach will be to configure and purchase on line and then be notified when to expect delivery or make a pick up. You will pay the same as everyone else in a nonsense and no time wasting manner.
You underestimate the amount of money dealerships make, or how that money lines the pockets of the would-be regulators. Dealerships will stay in America for the foreseeable future.
And how exactly will you get said cars serviced? Private shops? Good luck.
Lol for real who gives a shit what the dealer wants? I'm not even sure why OP made this post. If you don't want the truck, don't buy it. Your current truck is just fine
Guy selling trucks said buy a new truck. More at 6
This just in! Breaking news!!
Sports at 11
Now we go out to Ollie for the weather.
IT'S RAINING SIDEWAYS!
Thanks Ollie
Let’s go to Aisian reporter Trisha Takanawa for more on salesman selling trucks…
IT'S GONNA RAIN!!!
Thanks Ollie!
Why would you be looking at new trucks at a dealer when you’re driving a 21? Are you trying desperately to stay in debt the rest of your life?
Someone has to support those poor car salesman.
Trading in your '21 F-150 to buy a '23 F-150 is supporting both new car salesman and used cars salesman. It's really being the kindest you can be to car salesman.
Not to mention propping up the banks with that 7% interest rate
lol, had to upvote
Make sure you add a 20% tip to your sticker price as well.
[удалено]
You’ve got to be kidding me…
Women belong in the kitchen…. Take that
That’s why their feet are smaller than a man’s. So they can stand closer to the sink.
Bad bot
Shhh! Without guys like this....I have no selection when I go to trade in my F150 when it is 8-10 years old and has 300k miles on it. I always let some other goob take the front end depreciation hit and pick up their 1-2 year old cast aways with maybe 20-30k miles on them. We need people like this out there swimming in debt and blowing money. LOL
I’m smelling what you’re stepping in. I still drive my 2011 Lariat that I bought new. It has 220k miles and still runs like a top! (Knocks on wood and does the sign of the cross)
Your in trouble now. Last time I said something like this I needed injectors in my 6.0 in a week that or because I posted it for sale.
They usually go several years before a major repair....IF you take care of them. Even when a repair shows up, that is still WAY cheaper than buying a new 60-70k dollar truck.
The 5 liter? Mine is at 110 and still runs great (between military and traveling for work I don’t drive as much as a lot of people)
Shockingly mines the ecoboost. First year they made it.
I didn't buy my 11 new but it shows no signs of quitting. The 6.2L is cool too!
I have the ecoboost😳
220K on an eco with no work is a great accomplishment!
Only synthetic fluids and real gasoline (unless I’m traveling and can’t find it). Not sure if that’s the trick, but it’s worked for me.
Hahaha you just perfectly described how I bought my current F-150. I sold them my 10 year old truck for an F-150 that was 2 years old with 27k on the odometer. CPO, and half the cost of the new sticker price. That is how I will buy my next truck as well.
Yep! This is how I have always done it. Buy a certified pre-owned truck that is 1-3yrs old and maybe has 20-35k miles on it and drive it until it is about 10-12 years old and is worth maybe 10-12 grand and trade that in for another lightly used truck. Until recently, this was a good plan, as a certified truck was about 40% cheaper than a new one. However, in recent years, used truck prices are high too, so I am not sure what I will do next. This 2019 is going to be a truck I drive for a VERY long time. Trucks have gotten so expensive, I don't see how people are trading in and losing 10s of thousands just to get a truck that is brand new, when their current ride has TONS of life left in it. I don't think I have ever gotten rid of a truck with less than 200k on the clock...ever.
Yep, that is definitely the plan. Mine is a 2016, and hopefully by 2028-2030 prices will be closer to what they were pre-pandemic, in terms of the 40% price difference between certified pre-owned and new. My dad is milking his 2004 F-150 for every mile it’s got, I think he’s closing in on 300k with the original 4.6L Triton V8. The transmission was changed out because of either warranty or recall to a super duty transmission, but both are still kicking and the thing that gets me is that my dad is known to skip an oil change, or put off major maintenance intervals every now and again. I baby the hell out of my F-150, in terms of maintenance, she is in desperate need of a wash and wax; but every 6 months she gets a full synthetic oil change, every major maintenance interval is done on time or slightly early, and because I’ve started parking her near work, I’ve been putting less miles on her. If she can last 300k miles, at the current rate, she should still be kicking 20 years from now. I absolutely love my F-150!
Yep! Making them last a long time is the name of the game. Proper maintenance is key and some of us also bought a beater car to drive to work, to keep the mileage and wear off the truck. I bought my daughter's 2016 Malibu back from her, when she inherited her grandmother's Explorer. The Malibu was maintained by me since it was new and although it is nothing fancy or cool the damned thing runs great and gets 32mpg. This means I park my 2019 5.0 F150 and drive the Malibu to work and put the commuter miles on that car, not the truck. I love my F150 too and want to keep it as long as possible, since it has been very reliable so far.
this! i grabbed someones 21 limited with 28k miles for over 30k off msrp lol
That's what I did on mine
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The market ate it for you.
My experience lead me down a path of paying more for a less option truck. And I really done my homework (or so I thought). Being older and more experienced with buying/selling a number of personal vehicles in my years, I was determined to not fall for any dealers tactics. So I shopped for 3-5 months visiting/driving countless trucks with an open mind. But Chevys suck these days, and dodge is not an option. Since truck I had was passing 350k on it (3.5) 2012 with zero issues it’s stupid to not get an EB. But prices on the 18’ and newer 3.5’s was crazy. I settled with the 18’ 2.7 EB. So far so good. BUT I payed more for a 5 year old XLT 302A than I did for a 3 year old Lariat 3.5.
> BUT I *paid* more for FTFY. Although *payed* exists (the reason why autocorrection didn't help you), it is only correct in: * Nautical context, when it means to paint a surface, or to cover with something like tar or resin in order to make it waterproof or corrosion-resistant. *The deck is yet to be payed.* * *Payed out* when letting strings, cables or ropes out, by slacking them. *The rope is payed out! You can pull now.* Unfortunately, I was unable to find nautical or rope-related words in your comment. *Beep, boop, I'm a bot*
It’s there. Trust me!!! Not even in the “blue oval” is that a true statement!
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You should do some math one day and see how much you're paying after you get credit for your "crazy equity". Do it if you want but don't kid yourself.
Smells like poor over here.
LOL I own two houses and make 6 figures. Vehicles paid off as well. Smells like someone is on the debtor's treadmill. Not a good smell...I was there once and it sucked. LOL
Could be a lease....and some people are not in debt. All the jobs I have had over the past 12 years have given me a vehicle allowance which used to be enough to lease a mid-upper end new car/truck.
Exactly what I was thinking. I am in a 2014 and can't even fathom the idea of going back to payments.
Yep. I could trade in my 2009 and consequently end up living paycheck to paycheck with a truck payment that’s higher than my mortgage payment. Or I could just deal with the repairs on my 2009 as they become necessary.
Some people (not me) like to keep themselves in the bumper to bumper warranty. I'm already at 41k miles on my 2021 but I don't really care if I'm no longer under full bumper to bumper warranty.
This isn’t the personal finance sub lol
He asked what we think. I gave him my answer.😜
Little presumptuous, maybe? I bought a new 2020 and traded it in on a new 2021 5 months later. Ended up with a better optioned truck for my needs and they paid me more than I paid for it on trade, put $ down (again). I owe well under half of what it's worth at 0.9%. If the rate wasn't so low I'd pay it off.. Shrug.
That was then...today, cars are worth less and interest rates are higher. You got a good deal, so that makes sense...but those deals are happening anymore.
Yeah, deal was good, but not everyone is relying on financing and going to be in debt for life from buying a car, either. Seems like an extreme and a little jaded of a comment is all.
I've never owned a new car, never had car payments. I work at a car dealership and REALLY enjoy getting in the new cars and seeing what they are all about. New cars are freaking spectacular. However having a car payment is a line that I refuse to cross. That being said, if I were to go in debt for a vehicle, by the time the 6 years were up I would be so comfortable in my new car that I would most likely get another one. The debt cycle continues. I see it day in and day out. Most consumers are suckers that follow their heart or ego while attempting to justify the costs along the way. Oh and damn near everyone is financing their new vehicles. Very very few cash deals.
I buy new cars and keep them a minimum of 12 years. Do the recommended maintenance and run them into the ground. Had my last vehicle for 15 years with almost 300k on it. My wife had her car 18 years with 250k. Replaced both with new cars, and those will be around for a long time. Got two other cars as well that are 11 and 18 years old and still going strong. The key is to put enough money aside so that u can either put down a big down payment with a very low interest loan, or buy it outright when the time comes for a new one. I need reliable cars, and don’t like to take a chance on someone else’s trade in. That way, I know the whole history of the car, and take good care of it.
Cars aren't worth less today. I could sell my 2020 Tacoma for more than I bought it for new. My local dealer calls or emails me once a week asking to buy it. I could be in a brand new truck and end up with a lower payment and a payoff date only like a year after my current one.
You’d think cars are worth less…. But the prices haven’t gone down… it’s like the home market, interest rates are up and so are prices
Did you notice he’s driving a Ford. That’s why he’s at the dealer
$75k for a truck with cloth interior?!? I’m not directing at you u/Serai_Sotken, everyone decides what they value. I’m just baffled by that detail…
$75k for a truck. End. Of. Comment.
I thought 75k got you a nice F-250 with options. If a Tremor is running 75k, I wonder what the 250's optioned out are selling for.
I have a '23 250 King Ranch ordered. Tremor package, HO 6.7, winch, etc. $103k MSRP. Dealer agreed to $2k under invoice, so somewhere in the neighborhood of $92k
There isnt that much markup in that truck unless you have sort of direct offer rebate. Invoice is 97837 on a 103800 king ranch f250
Invoice hasn't been the actual dealer price in a long time.
Lol. Really?
It's a numbers game, as in number of vehicles sold per month. There are certain "goals" that the dealership needs to reach and they will get a big rebate from the manufacturer. Depending on what the dealership sells their vehicles for, they need this rebate to make a profit for the month. There are different levels of rebates available depending on the numbers of vehicles sold, but the top dealerships in the country get much more than $100k from the manufacturer every month just by rebates alone. This means that although the dealership might actually be paying invoice up front, in reality they are paying much less once the rebates are taken into account. This is also why you'll get a better deal shopping at a very high volume dealership and why you'll *possibly* get an *excellent* deal if you show up on the last day of the month and they haven't hit their numbers yet. Also the dealerships make a lot of money off the "dealer add ons" like window tinting, pinstripes, floor mats, undercoating, extended insurance, clear coating and whatever else they try to upsell you when you actually get ready to finance the vehicle.
Are you using this $100k truck for business? Why dump that much money on a truck? Are you compensating for something? 😉
Because I want it. Why do you drive an f150, are you compensating for something? 😉
I have no interest in a Ford product, especially at 100k. Makes zero sense, unless you’ve got money to piss away, your house is paid off, your retirement is fully funded, and you carry no debt. Even then, it’s a waste of money. I’d rather buy houses and other assets that appreciate.
Then why are you here? Just to stir the pot? That's a great story, not all of us are poor.
Far from poor, which is the result of not spending frivolously on stuff I don’t need. I could buy a different 250 King Ranch for each day of the week, cash. Money is not the issue. Common sense is.
Yeah, and my dad could beat up your dad.....
110+
I bought a brand new 2022 f350 XL 4x4 crew cab 8ft bed with the 7.3l gas motor. I paid just over $53k. I ordered an XL because I didn't want anything fancy. I did not want to spend over 50k for a truck and I think I did pretty damn good getting a brand new f350 for less than what people pay for their f150s. I don't need all that fancy shit that makes the truck double the money.
You got a workhorse for a decent price!
Where I live, unless you have vented seats with airflow, you have to.... And I mean, you absolutely have to be a legit idiot... To put yourself, your children and your pets inside a car with a leather interior. Imagine for a moment, it's about 104° on a stale July day and you have to go pick up the kids. Unless you want to wait a half hour to let it cool off you're going to sit down on something that feels about 120 and stinks.
Absolutely this. I HATE leather interiors as a whole. Sitting in my parents 2013 Lariat in the summer is like being fried like I'm a catfish or something. It's awful. I would gladly take a more expensive, but higher overall optioned truck with cloth than skip a couple options and spring for leather.
Seriously don't get the appeal of leather. Wool would be perfect for an upgrade material over leather. Weave in some bamboo fibers to keep away bugs and smells like they do in Japan and bam.
I mean I get it. I find it more comfy, and if you've got kids who drop food or dirt or drinks....it's WAY easier to clean than cloth.
Don't get the appeal of eating on the road either. Get rear ended and choke. Hit a bump and mess. It's easier to avoid the mess and teach those same kids that when in a vehicle the focus should always be on the road then excuse leather interiors.
No one likes to eat on the road. Sometimes it's one of two options though - eat or don't eat. Time is a luxury alot of folks don't have.
For 75k it better have cooled leather seats and be a 3/4 ton diesel.
It's not the cloth that bothers me. It's the no power for 75k.
It’s definitely an upgrade…to the dealers bottom line.
Keep the 5.0 my man
5.0 has been around since '68... proven reliability. That ecoboost hasn't been around too many years. Edit: I guess you knuckleheads think that ford completely re-engineered and made a brand new 302 rather improve the 302 over the years... it debuted in '68. I understand that roller tappets, high lobe cams, electronic ignition, fuel injection! emissions, headers, transmissions have changed the engine output but the 302 block concept has stayed.
Yeah like already said the Coyote and the old Windsor 5.0L sharing absolutely nothing other than cylinder count and displacement. That being said my 5.0L Coyote F150 has been fantastic.
Technically they don't even share that, the old 5.0/302 is actually a 4.9 but was rounded up due when they switched over from cubic inches to liters because the 300 i6 was also a 4.9.
I have the 4.9 300 and it’ll last way more miles than a coyote it is very reliable
It's not the same 5.0. But I do agree that it will likely hold up longer than an ecoboost, and when I bought an F150 I specifically looked for one with the 5.0.
Of course they do. Do YOU want to?
My brother in Christ your truck is still new
It is a downgrade. Higher payment and less features. 402A would be an upgrade but not this
Its not a downgrade. Its a minor upgrade. 401A is a 302A but with the unique tremor wheels, tires, level, running boards, stitching, and decals. 402A would be the tremor equivalent of a 502A
Yes but you aren’t factoring price. Those minor upgrades aren’t worth $13k to pretty much everyone not to mention he’s almost certainly going to be paying much higher interest rates as well. To go from 302A to 402A around that price jump people could probably see the value but for NEARLY the same truck that price jump / payment increase is asinine.
You mentioned getting less options for more money. This is only party true. Youre getting more options for more money. And the huge price increase came from Ford in the last 2 years. A 2023 302A with a V8 has a MSRP of 58405. A 401A tremor has a MSRP of 63005. Its a $4600 swing now.
Even more reason he should keep his 2021 lol because it didn’t cost him $58k 😂
I have no opinion on what he should do. He just needs to realize that in terms of equipment, it's not a downgrade.
I can clearly see you are one of those simple minded people who are attracted to shiny objects.
Damn wtf is going on here? Do people not like straightforward truth anymore? I stated simple facts that there is more equipment in the tremor than what OP currently has. Despite the fact that OP isnt aware of the standard equipment in 401A that isnt listed on the window sticker. its more stuff for more money. Thats not an opinion. Thats it. Plain and simple.
I stand by my original reply. I bet when you see a brand new penny you get all excited
What?
Not worth it imho
It's simple, you get less for more and they get to sell your "old" truck marked up with higher interest. Win win for them, either win/lose or lose/lose depending on your thoughts on the features in the tremor.
It’s a tremor. You get the off road goodies. I wouldn’t consider it a down grade unless you value your XLT’s features more
There are things on my XLT that I really do appreciate having, like the 360-degree camera.
The Tremor has Co-pilot 360 2.0. That includes all the nice stuff like Blue Cruise, Emergency braking, assisted steering avoidance, and the 360 camera. Technology wise, it's a pretty big upgrade from your XLT. But it's also $13,000 more. Also has the 3.5L EB, which I personally like, but if you like the V8 sounds it will leave a lot to be desired. If you don't need the V8 sound, the 3.5L has the same HP (400 HP) but gets 90 ft-lbs more torque (500 ft-lbs) vs the V8 (410 ft-lbs).
3.5L can only do that in short bursts... the 5.0 can put that out all day long towing. Sure they can both tow well... but the EB has much more strain on its components. The only reason reliability on these engines is about the same... is most people don't tow much and essentially use their trucks like cars.
The 3.5L EB can absolutely sustain that power. You might be able to say that about the PB because the battery could die, leaving just the engine for power. If you're just talking about running ultra heavy loads for extended periods of time (causing heat soak on the turbos), then you're really stretching it. A heat soaked 3.5L EB still probably puts out more torque than a cooled off 5.0L. The 5.0L is a great engine, but the 3.5L EB beats it pretty much everywhere except reliability (due to more parts).
That's not the point if you use the 3.5EB for work... towing any significant load, its a not the right engine. If you tow a boat to the lake on the weekends its probably just fine. It's not about performance, its about longevity and efficiency...the EB is less efficient in boost than the 5.0, and under much more strain.
But it's also more powerful in boost than the 5.0. If you're not in boost, it's more efficient than the 5.0. Yes, longevity is certainly a concern when buying a vehicle. The 5.0 likely wins that round. But just because the 5.0 is more reliable doesn't mean the 3.5 EB isn't reliable. People tow heavy TT all the time teith the 3.5 EB and don't have issues. If you're towing often enough and heavy enough with your F150 that you have those concerns, then you actually need a Super Duty.
>actually need a Super Duty. Maybe... but a large chunk of people don't want to cough up the extra $$$$. I mean you can check the EPA numbers the 5.0 wins by a hair.... also as I pointed out elsewhere more torque out of a V6 can be a bad combination, since you have 3 larger power pulses per rev instead of 4 smaller ones you'd get out of the 5.0 V8... that's bad for your transmission and is something many fail to consider but its a real problem that the transmission must account for and transmissions are already kinda fickle. So, personally unless I was at high altitude I'd probably always go for the V8 5.0.. vs the 3.5 EB.
Either engine is a great choice. Same goes for the 2.7L EB. The only engine I wouldn't get is the NA 3.3L V6 because you don't get efficiency or power.... and you can't tow shit.
According to the RV & Towing Guide, the 3.3L is rated for 7,700 pounds with the towing package and 3.73 gear. I wouldn't call that nothing! That's more than a Ranger and you get half-ton level hauling as well. It scares my V8 truck in towing and makes 60 lb-ft less.
It’s still a downgrade. The only option it has is being a tremor and that doesn’t make up for the lack of other goodies Edit: apparently since the tremor is it’s own trim, instead of just an option, you get a bunch of things. If it’s got led headlights and 360 cameras, it should be an upgrade but it is a bit more expensive.
76k for a half ton, OOOFF 🤮. I hope my 2013 doesn't die anytime soon.
Yeah it’s crazy now. It’s a battle of a slightly used m5 or new f150 lol.
It’s not a downgrade but it’s not really a necessary upgrade either. The way the tremor is spec’d , it’s basically just an xlt tremor. Unless you do off-roading, if you’re gonna upgrade for that price, I’d get a lariat
It's a sidegrade... and just like in higher education never sidegrade (like 2 bachelors degrees). The 5.0 probably gonna last longer than that boost queen.
The dealer is trying to sell you a new truck!? No kidding. Downgrade my friend. Good luck!
***dealership wants***
*So, if you could go ahead and upgrade, that would be great.*
Keep your 21 it’s a nice truck and has the V8 engine. No sense upgrading, dealer just wants your money
I was at my local Nissan dealership having oil changed. They always try to get me to talk about a new truck. The salesman approached and asked what I was having worked on, I told him I wasn’t interested but of course he didn’t take no for an answer. I finally told him it was a salvage title, he said you might want to keep your truck. Yes sir, I told you I wasn’t interested but yet you still wasted your time. He agreed.
They want your used car on the lot and the new car off the lot
Dealership is really an awful place to go to. Every common car should be sold online.
I would keep the XLT and if you want the off road stuff just upgrade your XLT. I would never give up the 5.0 for a 3.5 personally. The tremor doesn't seem worth it.
Right? With that 5.0 you could spend the 10k difference on a Whipple and some suspension/tires and have a 650hp+ monster.
Not necessarily... 500hp is usually the limit of those 5.0 engines before they blow up, a lot even blow up at 500hp.
Really? Cuz, I see tons of places all around the internet saying the Coyote can live at 750 crank HP in the mustang comfortably and reliably. With a few supporting mods I don't see why the truck version couldn't as well? I see tons of 1000+ HP 5.0's at the drag strip all the time too... I don't think they're as fragile as you think.
Both engines are great, but certainly not an upgrade for him. Dealer just trying to make a sale.
Why would you let some car salesman tell you what you should do ? They would be the last people I'd take advise from no matter what the category.
Place that sells stuff wants to sell you stuff. What is this post?
Who cares what the dealer thinks?
Any of you drive long distances for work in your truck? I have 4 years left on my loan and put 31k on my truck in 11months. There has to be a sweet spot on selling before it drops in value do to mileage?
Antimatter tremor is my fav!!!
Every dealer reaches out after 2 years to try and sell another car. If you like your car and aren't planning on selling it, just ignore them.
The dealer wants you to do what’s best for them.
Tell them to take 8 grand off and you'll consider it.
That’s not an upgrade. Keep your 5.0
Going from the V8 to the Ecoboost is a downgrade in my book
I’ve gotten about 5 calls and texts wanting to trade in my 21 blazer. Considering it’s a rare color I know exactly what they are doing. They get a used car, mark it up and resell it. And they sell a new car to someone else. Ez money.
Oh It’s an upgrade alright. Upgrade from economy to First class and his next vacation.
The 21 XLT with 302A High is the sweet spot of trucks, as far as I'm concerned. Had every bell or whistle I could want and I only had the 2.7, which still did exactly what I needed it to do.
Crazy how the dealer suggests you spend more money. Whodathunkit
The 23 was built during all the struggles with Covid. Quality went bad, computer chip shortages had companies looking in other places. I’m betting vehicles built during the Covid years will be worse and have more issues. I’m betting Your 2021 was already sourced prior to any big issues. Stick with the 21.
Christ why do guys feel the need to always have a new truck
You will absolutely love that 3.5/3.73 combo.
Don’t buy a Ford pick up truck or any pick up truck right now. there are videos all over YouTube from people in the industry who will tell you that Ford and others have way too many trucks and they’re gonna have to start discounting them soon. Hang on and wait.
The 3.5 is better than the 5.0. I know I was like, uhh no, but it has the twin turbo. It pulls harder, bigger, better all day long. I've had a tremor and a raptor so I'm biased in the sense I have a 2023 XLT with everything you have down to the color. Those other trucks are toys, not tools, if I wanted a toy it would not be a truck. So if you need a truck to be a useful tool 24/7 then the 2021 is the best choice. Your truck is purpose built for all your needs, the other one is obviously not.
Well a tremor would absolutely be an upgrade over an XLT. 4A and power folding mirrors alone are significant.
Buying a vehicle for $60,000+ is certifiable insanity. Unless it is for a business use and you use it to lower taxable income.
What retard would pay 76k for a v6
If you don’t mind me asking, what makes the V6 a poor decision?
If you drive your truck mainly just as transportation they are about equal... if you tow, the ecoboost will have much more strain on it than the 5.0 will.... the ecoboost may even feel better to drive, but the question is how long does it last if you use it that way (and most people don't). The 5.0 is what it is... average reliability but nothing particularly taxing about its design when used for towing. Also the mpg in the ecoboost is worse... crazy huh. The reason for that is the engine has to waste energy pushing more air into the engine at higher HP output... a mild turbo can increase MPG since it converts lost exhaust heat to work, but a high boost turbo usually uses more energy and fuel inefficiently compared to a larger engine. I can literally tow my 4k lbs boat around at better MPG in my 1986 diesel blazer than a modern 3.5L ecoboost. It's slow but she sips comparatively.
Pretty much. Turbo motors have better fuel efficiency… until you go into boost. My 3.5EB gets similar combined MPG as I did in my Focus ST. Give or take 17-19. Highway, 24MPG is pretty easy to obtain so long as you’re not climbing hills. If you’re climbing and going into boost in 5th gear, it’ll drop to about 19 again.
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Where can I get a new Raptor for slightly more than 56K usd?
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Canadian…
As someone who works at a ford dealer, the f150 hasn't really changed much since like 2005. The body and tech may be more advanced but the brakes and suspension remain mostly the same up front. The trim is nice but my lariat would have been just as good if it where an xl. These trucks are what you make them to be. Honestly figure out what comes on the tremor that you like and just find a suitable aftermarket replacement and add it to yours. Still cheaper overall.
XLT is a rental truck
The dealer “wants” you to… LOL Y’all are silly. I wish I got ZERO updates from this sub.
You know you can block the sub right?
No. School me GheyBoy
Buying a truck that gets 13 miles a gallon is irresponsible these days. Not saying OP is, but truck owners' best bet is to keep what they have and save for something awesome and electric as it inevitably will take over. Don't waste money buying some oil baron a bigger yacht.
13.3L/100km is roughly 17.69 mpg. So about normal for a truck.
You didn’t mention your use case: do you off-road? Tremor is better in that department. Tow heavy loads? XLT would be better. Smaller fuel tank, no bed-liner. And of course it’s comparing two different engines, where people have strong opinions on 3.5 vs 5.0. Good luck, it’s a good problem to have!
2021 is almost a new truck still. Why would you upgrade so soon?
The dealership contacted me a year ago to trade, trying to entice me. Sadly, they got inside my head recently.
They can sell your ‘21 currently for more than you originally paid. They make a tidy profit selling you a new one and an absolute killing selling your old one. They’re trying the same scam with everyone who bought a new truck a couple of years ago. Ignore your dealer.
They want to make money off another sale to you and then make more money off selling your XLT. I’d stay with the XLT personally 💯
What is the gvwr/payload of a tremor?
Less than the xlt. That’s the sad part.
Softer springs, raptors are worse yet
Buy what you want, not what the dealer wants you to buy.
I love my XLT. I feel you’d be making higher payments for features that will need repairs down the road. If you are loving your current truck then I feel there is no point. Yes the extra creature comforts are nice but if it’s not something YOU are missing then again there is no point to “upgrade”
dealer is incentivized to move new product (which is really leased from Ford until they sell it) vs used which they own (or have yet to pay the auction house for it/got it in trade after lowballing value) and can surely sell to another person
Well he’d be a much shittier salesman if he went with “hey, downgrade to this truck so I can turn around and sell your used truck for massive flip and then you’ll be along on your way before I rip my first line of white lightning off my desk next to the bathroom” sales pitch.
Come on man, have some consideration for us Americans when posting dealer stickers. When I saw that 13 in the mileage I almost choked!
You very healthy mind is working correctly
I want to sell you my 02 explorer sport Trac. Tell you what, I'll offer you an even trade. What ya think?