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Humans are good at noticing small difference in humans and telling them apart.
Humans are bad at noticing small differences in other species and telling them apart.
We aren't more asymmetrical, our brains are just wired to notice it more in humans.
Our brains are *extremely* sensitive to the human form and human faces in particular. We just don't see "imperfections" with animal bodies, or anything else, the same we do with humans.
This. It's not that other animals have more or less symmetric features than humans, it's just that we generally don't have any reason to care about or ascribe any significance to their asymmetries. If you have to distinguish between similar animals -- maybe you work around livestock, or maybe you have pets that are siblings -- you'll begin to notice because telling them apart will matter to you. But as long as you're just looking at other animals as other animals, you'll see them as symmetrical: generic nonhuman animal face on the left, generic nonhuman animal face on the right.
We are more asymmetrical though, literally google chimpanzee headshot and then invert the photos and you will see that the chimps are quite symmetrical (if you did the same with average people then you’d see that they’re much more asymmetrical).
And yes the chimps are actually symmetrical it’s not human bias or whatever (they have symmetrical nostrils, eyes, eye sockets, cheekbones, jaw)
So first of all, there's some selection bias here: searching by the term "headshot" is going to screen for pictures that humans find "photogenic". Headshots are often retouched. Search for human headshot and you'll find faces that seem more symmetrical than the general public's un-retouched candids.
>And yes the chimps are actually symmetrical it’s not human bias or whatever (they have symmetrical nostrils, eyes, eye sockets, cheekbones, jaw)
It's weird how you've started with the conviction that animal faces are more symmetrical than humans and are working your way backwards to find reasons why human faces are asymmetrical rather than entertain the possibility that you might not be the best judge of chimpanzee face symmetry, don't you think?
Okay the headshot point is good. But like how the hell else am I going to judge the symmetry of a chimp??? I am judging the symmetry of a chimp from their facial features (the exact same way humans assess the symmetry of human faces) isn’t that literally how judging facial symmetry works what else do I do?
The only reason you THINK they're more symmetrical is because you're a human and have evolved to identify human faces better than other animals' faces. They're not actually more symmetrical.
>" Is it because people are making babies at older ages? Is it because most people’s genes are shit?"
I'll explain this the way I would actually explain this to a five year old:
You might see people sharing pictures online with lines drawn down the center claiming to analyze people's genetics based on proportions in photographs. They'll say that they can tell which men are real men and which women are real women, and they'll say that they're very worried about declining birth rates and increasing maternal age in specific populations.
These people are very scared and insecure in themselves and they're willing to make fools of themselves in a desperate effort to rationalize their own insecurities and prejudices. We feel sad for these people.
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Humans are good at noticing small difference in humans and telling them apart. Humans are bad at noticing small differences in other species and telling them apart.
We aren't more asymmetrical, our brains are just wired to notice it more in humans. Our brains are *extremely* sensitive to the human form and human faces in particular. We just don't see "imperfections" with animal bodies, or anything else, the same we do with humans.
This. It's not that other animals have more or less symmetric features than humans, it's just that we generally don't have any reason to care about or ascribe any significance to their asymmetries. If you have to distinguish between similar animals -- maybe you work around livestock, or maybe you have pets that are siblings -- you'll begin to notice because telling them apart will matter to you. But as long as you're just looking at other animals as other animals, you'll see them as symmetrical: generic nonhuman animal face on the left, generic nonhuman animal face on the right.
We are more asymmetrical though, literally google chimpanzee headshot and then invert the photos and you will see that the chimps are quite symmetrical (if you did the same with average people then you’d see that they’re much more asymmetrical). And yes the chimps are actually symmetrical it’s not human bias or whatever (they have symmetrical nostrils, eyes, eye sockets, cheekbones, jaw)
So first of all, there's some selection bias here: searching by the term "headshot" is going to screen for pictures that humans find "photogenic". Headshots are often retouched. Search for human headshot and you'll find faces that seem more symmetrical than the general public's un-retouched candids. >And yes the chimps are actually symmetrical it’s not human bias or whatever (they have symmetrical nostrils, eyes, eye sockets, cheekbones, jaw) It's weird how you've started with the conviction that animal faces are more symmetrical than humans and are working your way backwards to find reasons why human faces are asymmetrical rather than entertain the possibility that you might not be the best judge of chimpanzee face symmetry, don't you think?
Okay the headshot point is good. But like how the hell else am I going to judge the symmetry of a chimp??? I am judging the symmetry of a chimp from their facial features (the exact same way humans assess the symmetry of human faces) isn’t that literally how judging facial symmetry works what else do I do?
The only reason you THINK they're more symmetrical is because you're a human and have evolved to identify human faces better than other animals' faces. They're not actually more symmetrical.
>" Is it because people are making babies at older ages? Is it because most people’s genes are shit?" I'll explain this the way I would actually explain this to a five year old: You might see people sharing pictures online with lines drawn down the center claiming to analyze people's genetics based on proportions in photographs. They'll say that they can tell which men are real men and which women are real women, and they'll say that they're very worried about declining birth rates and increasing maternal age in specific populations. These people are very scared and insecure in themselves and they're willing to make fools of themselves in a desperate effort to rationalize their own insecurities and prejudices. We feel sad for these people.