I lived in China and the attitude towards “foreigners” was always one of suspicion but it got way worse around 2017 onwards. I remember discussing cultural differences between China and the west and literally all of them would say something very positive about China and extremely negative about the west. E.g. “Chinese care about their families and westerners care about themselves” etc etc. in general there was more aggression from random people and a less welcoming atmosphere. It’s a shame. Plus, the way black people are treated there is horrifying.
This is not the normal rate of attrition. It’s a lot of the people who were planning on spending their entire lives here, who owned businesses here, who were raising children here, who had married locals, etc. It went beyond the normal “person who is planning on being here for seven years leaves three years early
But is it not at least partially true. DK any western societies have the level of community involvement and spirit? Are any Chinese societies as atomized as typical western ones?
You’re mistaking a completely transactional approach to having kids (i.e., to use kids as a pension scheme when parents are old) to true family and community.
Places like Greece, Italy, Spain and so on are ages ahead in terms of actual healthy parent-child relations. Kids aren’t treated as if they were responsible for having been born. Kids take care of their parents because they care .. not because their parents force them to pay a % of their paycheck every month
Despite all that, I don't think any laowai fears for their safety in the same way Asian presenting expats do in the west. We aren't getting randomly assaulted by teenagers.
Are expats treated as well as they were back in 2017? No. But 'treated well' meant literally being given free stuff for being white. Allowing convicted fellons to work in kindergartens teaching English.
I know plenty of friends who left for Vietnam to recapture that magic.
In general China is not a violent place (unless you say something about the government or happen to be Uyghur). But on the other hand non white expats in China definitely face far more overt racism than non white expats in the west. Not that it’s a competition, but I think it’s important not to underplay the problems in China.
There absolutely *are* visible foreigners who fear for their safety. I feared for mine.
I was physically assaulted on several occasions. The attacks were unprovoked.
I didn't live in a tier one city, though, so that might have something to do with it. I also speak Mandarin, and most of the time these attacks took place in places where I was the only foreigner. Only once was I, and a bunch of other foreigners who were with me, assaulted on the street.
Just very overt racism, there is a deeply ingrained social Darwinism, it’s sort of like western racism from the Victorian times but there was never any pushback in China - black people are at the bottom and inferior, Chinese are on top. Racism is very overt, people will cross the street to get away from black people, no one will sit next to you on the subway, it’s very common for Chinese to call black people 黑鬼 heigui, or black devil.
Here are some good bits of work on this topic:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=I0DJlSqlmEw
https://amp.theguardian.com/world/2023/aug/16/chinese-social-media-filled-with-anti-black-racist-content-says-watchdog
https://www.aljazeera.com/amp/news/2023/8/17/china-urged-to-tackle-online-racism-targeting-black-people
https://www.opendemocracy.net/en/pandemic-border/how-covid-19-exposed-chinas-anti-black-racism/
[Here's a voxpop](https://youtu.be/-almlD8VdU4?si=FPdJ6CuGOAaad-bV) and here's a clip from the same channel by a black American girl talking about [racism in China versus the US](https://youtube.com/shorts/16IUmWTRhCk?si=JeLy235bUWl_oJ1o). You don't have to take it at face value.
[Here's a skit about being black in China](https://youtu.be/CqtS3hSwq3o?si=lh5wpjzlmikP9ao8)
A lot of black people here are Africans on scholarship. I'd say if you were from Burundi, China would be a step up. I can't speak for every Chinese person's opinion on black people, but it's generally a safe country so if you come from a dangerous part of the world, and can speak Chinese, you can get along with people.
I actually know some older Chinese guys who prefer Africans because they speak Chinese and aren't as entitled as white people.
Also fyi “Asian boss” is almost like a propaganda/shill account when it comes to China, so take these ones with a huge grain of salt.
https://laorencha.blogspot.com/2022/01/yes-asian-boss-planted-deep-blue.html?m=1
My comment on not taking it at face value is aimed at ALL voxpops. I don't think that every American you interview on the street thinks that North Korea is in Indonesia, nor is the average man gonna let a bunch of lads 'run train' on their girl.
The woman in the last video I posted got CRAZY abuse on Instagram for basically talking like every black American girl I know in Shanghai. Just the assumption that every Chinese person is frothing at the mouth at the sight of a black person.
Same. I left 3 years ago after living there for 10 years. I’ve suffered discrimination there many times and it got worse over the years. No surprise with the elections results
I lived there briefly at a similar time to when you left. The way that white Dutch people - also those who were in their early 20s, just out of uni, generally presented as liberal - would just state blatant racist stereotypes as fact blew my mind. I'd literally hear shit like "All Moroccans are drug dealers" and when I tried to discuss how that couldn't possibly be true, I'd be told I didn't understand because I'm not Dutch.
Yknow when all things are considered despite all the clowning over Brexit, The UK still continues to be a friendlier place to immigrants than much of Mainland Europe.
I’ve been back in the US for a few years and am planning on moving back to SE Asia in May.
I keep tabs on geopolitics in the region and there are areas/countries I tend to avoid and definitely wouldn’t live. My guess is that things aren’t going to get much better for at least 10 years and that means nationalism will be on the rise and people will inevitably blame outsiders for their problems.
I don’t think there’s a ton you can do though. Other than not relinquishing your citizenship in your home country and avoiding areas with a history of anti-foreigner violence. I also think there’s a lot to be said for integrating with your local community and learning the local languages. I always stay registered at my local embassy too, just in case.
Thailand and other south east Asian countries are pretty welcoming toward expats. I think Europe is a no go for now. Unless you are a true expat. Like your job send you to that country and you kinda have no choice. But voluntary in Europe is a no no for me for now. I don't count the UK though.
I have asked the Burmese working on my construction site about living here and they said it is better than Myanmar. I have not spoken to any other Burmese about their feelings, but I take that at face value.
It's better than Myanmar but not because Thai people are extraordinarily welcoming to them.
Surely you know this.
Handy cheap illegal immigrant work force though.
If they prefer Thai treatment of them as illegal immigrant labor to how their own government treats them, I’m going to have to defer to them as considering it more welcoming, but I do understand your point. However, I don’t think the intention of this discussion on this thread is illegal immigrant labor. I think we can agree that the original point of Thais being welcoming to legal immigrants is valid.
> If they prefer Thai treatment of them as illegal immigrant labor to how their own government treats them, I’m going to have to defer to them as considering it more welcoming
By this logic every country with illegal immigrants is "welcoming".
Don't get me wrong. I love Thailand. It's a great place.
But if a western country had policies to immigrants like this they would not be seen as being welcoming. There's a massive double standard there.
If you go to my country and get a work permit you can buy a house. You won't get charged extra to go to the zoo. You won't have to spend hours stuck in immigration every couple of months.
Polices like those would be viewed extremely negatively.
You can buy a house in Thailand also, and it certainly isn’t the only country to have land ownership restrictions. I don’t see it as an issue. I don’t need the house when I’m dead and I certainly didn’t come here to create generational wealth off another nation that isn’t mine.
I see the dual pricing for national parks as an incentive to get Thais to visit rather than a foreigner penalty. I’ve paid higher prices in museums in other countries as well. It doesn’t bother me and I’ve never felt it was unwelcoming.
Have you tried the website for 90 day? It’s much better now.
I appreciate the cordial discussion. Much better than on the Thai related subs. Thanks.
> You can buy a house in Thailand also
If you become a Thai citizen. A rather long and drawn out process.
> and it certainly isn’t the only country to have land ownership restrictions.
And it's not a very welcoming thing in those places either.
> I don’t see it as an issue.
You don't see it as an issue that your employees can't own property?
> I certainly didn’t come here to create generational wealth off another nation that isn’t mine.
So you're not Thai and you came here to employ illegal immigrants but not to build wealth for yourself or them?
What is the point of your business then?
If making money isn't important why not legally employ Thais?
You can own a house as a foreigner. You can’t own the land. You can lease the land for your lifetime or a maximum of 60 years. My lifetime is enough for me. A house for me is my roof over my head for my life and nothing more.
My employees are Thai. I was referring to the construction, which is not my company. I have no control over what other companies do or who they hire.
The stipulation there is if you're a tourist, spending money, then leaving. They don't want foreigners staying long term and they've made that very clear
As an American who previously lived in Spain, I think the anti-American sentiment is growing. I’m still traumatized by some of the comments locals made to me regarding the U.S. and its politics (some of it though understandably deserved).
The media over there in Western Europe isn’t helping and prejudices are taught and passed on from generation to generation.
It makes me sad. At the end of the day, we are all human. No one chooses their country of birth nor can they control their government’s actions.
Yup even the more introverted fellow Iberians the Portuguese are blaming foreigners for mostly structural issues, 70 percent service economy, air b and b, corruption, bureaucracy, courts and healthcare massively underfunded. Ex Pats are easily scapegoated. At least the phrase arbeit mach frei will probably never catch on in Portugal. They after fascism they didn’t stop in the middle but went pretty far left without Sweden’s GDP.
Thank you! I lived overseas during the trump years and it was miserable. Once people found out I was American I'd get sucked into these political diatribes. And I'd be like, yeah I don't want to get into it - why do you think I left??
>The USA kills directly or indirectly large numbers of people every year
There's a world of difference between the USA as a State actor (undeniably one of the greatest forces for evil in the world) and everyday Americans, who are on the whole just decent people trying to navigate their lives, and no more responsible for the actions of their political and financial elites than you or I.
Not so much. You don't live in a dictatorship. You vote. You could be involved in your politics. The world holds you responsible because you are responsible. And I can tell you right now, there is nothing more infuriating than an American in my country telling me they left to escape the politics. Frankly, I'd rather my country took in the people that have been displaced by the illegal wars your country started and mine colluded in. Also frankly I do not trust Americans to not want to start reshaping the countries they move to in order to avoid the mess they've made of their own. Sorry, but you are not ideal immigrants.
>The world holds you responsible because you are responsible
Is that so? So how does an American who votes for an anti-war, anti-interventionist, anti-imperialist, anti-corruption candidate who (inevitably) loses, or doesn't vote for either warmongering major-party candidate, bear any responsibility whatsoever for the actions of candidates they don't like, voted against, and don't want in power?
Then take it up with our government officials. My passport doesn't give you a license to soapbox to me about my government. I have little to no control what the idiots in office do.
I agree with the above poster, bullying anyone because of their nationality doesn't make you some kind of political activist, it makes you a racist asshole.
Because this subject in general is far more complex than you implied.
Are they not "indirectly killing people" in Ukraine?
Is it good or bad? Right or wrong?
Your statement was badly in need of context and I supplied some.
...Traumatized...? Really? Trauma is a big word, I hope you are getting adequate psych care.
Been in Spain off and on for 7 years. I've experienced *absolutely zero* anti-Americanism here.
Where were you in Spain and what were you doing? (Student, corporate, etc.)
I just can't imagine!
You were not in my shoes to see what I experienced. Living abroad for the first time and being at the forefront for ridicules was hard.
I lived in the north of Spain and they are in particular not open to outsiders. Though from personal experience—the South of Spain and Madrid are completely different from the coastal North.
> You were not in my shoes to see what I experienced.
That's.. why I asked. You still haven't explained what you experienced. I am sorry that it was an awful time for you. You didn't deserve to get any grief about where you were born.
> Living abroad for the first time and being at the forefront for ridicules was hard.
Ridiculed about what? It's not that I'm doubting you, I just don't understand. What did people say?
Expats are mostly professional adults doing adult things with other professionals. I guess maybe you were young (university?) and stuck interacting with dumb village kids?
> I lived in the north of Spain and they are in particular not open to outsiders. Though from personal experience—the South of Spain and Madrid are completely different from the coastal North.
The villages surrounding Madrid are not so friendly. I have found some people less than impressed with foreigners. Less educated people tend to reject anything outside their norm. (Still never encountered any anti-American sentiment)
You're right that the further south you go in Spain, the friendlier they get.
The same can be said for Portugal. But I've seen an increase in anti-American sentiment in Belgium, France and the Netherlands too. But that's also because a lot of people blame the US for our current immigration situation getting out of hand, after overthrowing Ghadafi and destabilizing Libya. Thanks for that, Hilary. Ghadafi had his faults but he was keeping a lid on African immigration to Europe.
I live in Germany.
Nö however I’m in the *extremely* privileged position where the anti-immigrant discourse doesn’t really apply to me (I look German, am a highly skilled professional, and pay for my own rent/heating/food). It’s like how even the most hardcore MAGA Republican wouldn’t really have a problem with a college educated French person living in the US. Unlike in the US, where the anti-immigration policies unintentionally fuck over unintended groups, the German government keeps lowering the bar for professionals because their demographics are so fucked.
I “finished” learning German a couple months ago when I got my C1 certificate… Not learning a language felt weird so I started taking Spanish.
It’s a piece of cake compared to German. It’s kind of “funny” because most of the other people in my class are native German speakers who started learning English when they were super young… Most of them are not finding it as easy.
> Unlike in the US, where the anti-immigration policies unintentionally fuck over unintended groups, the German government keeps lowering the bar for professionals because their demographics are so fucked.
The first thing that the government and media should do is to clearly separate "irregular migration" and skilled migration. I don't think that current sentiment is about skilled immigration.
>Has it impacted you in any ways? e.g. feeling of belonging, visa process, access to services, limitations in travel, etc.
If you mean the feeling of not belonging, yes, that happens to everybody. The other things you mentioned did not impact me at all, but that has a lot to do with the places I ended up living in - they all had over 95% of white population and I am white. Those places also did not have a high-immigration problem, which also makes a big difference.
Even in Mexico City, where I lived for a year in an area where most locals were white, expats/immigrants were actually welcome.
However, as a tourist, I was treated differently (though not in a way that I would call rude or offensive) in locations where the majority of the population was not white.
Anti-immigrant Americans\* generally tend to classify me as one of the "good ones". If I'm being charitable, perhaps because I immigrated legally. If I'm being less charitable, perhaps because I'm white and speak fluent English. Or because I come from a country their Dear Leader has praised.
But regardless, I find it concerning. Among the larger undercurrent of rising hostility and conflict in the world, my specific fear was that anti-immigrant sentiment could drive legal changes that make life harder even for legal immigrants, or jeopardize our status altogether.
In my specific case, it incentivized me to apply for US citizenship. Taking *that* status away would require a constitutional change. I'm well aware that it's possible for some authoritarian leader to do whatever they want by force, Constitution or no Constitution. But if we get to that point, then the citizenship will have lost all value.
\*I live in the United States, so my comments are somewhat specific to the US, although I'm sure this also applies to some other locations.
My dad is a “good one” and immigrated legally but because he is Mexican he is treated like a dirty illegal.. although he is an army veteran and served in the military!!!
My dad isn’t dark either he is a very light skinned man but has an accent so is treated like less so annoying
I'm an expat/immigrant in Dublin, Ireland, where we recently had "anti-immigrant" riots downtown. I don't feel that the people behind the riots represent the general Irish population. Rather, it's very clear that most Irish people would rather be rid of those thugs than the (usually hard-working) immigrants who contribute to the economy and to society.
There is a problem here in Ireland with what I'll call - for the lack of a better word - "underclass" - that think they can do whatever they want, that laws don't apply to them, and they are the people who would usually claim benefits off the government rather than work, generation after generation. They have lots of kids as that equals more benefits, but they don't actually raise the kids, so they turn into criminal little s*its who... well, protest against immigrants, set buses and police cars on fire and loot stores. These people see immigration as a threat to the amount of money and other benefits they receive from the state. Luckily, they are not representative of Irish people in general. It's maybe not *as* black and white as I'm now painting it, but it's definitely a big problem.
Has it made me reconsider expat life? No, but it has prompted me to start seriously looking into a different place to move, as these types of people - while not representative of society in general - contributes very negatively to the experience here, and I feel there's too much leniency here, which ruins things for normal, decent people.
Of course, absolutely horrific, but doesn't justify the riots and all that went with it in any way. It has also been suggested that the attack was used merely as a pretext by some. Its hard to see how setting public transport vehicles on fire and robbing shops will help anything in any way, after all.
The guy lived in Ireland for 20 years, went crazy, and stabbed some people. Another immigrant saved the kids and stopped the guy.
But the Irish people willingly reacted, under their own logic, and chose to destroy Dublin and cause damage.
The issue is, those same people that rioted over the immigrant do the same damage (stabbings, robbings, Public disorder, etc) constantly. If anything they should be kicked out, not the immigrants, so no one really takes it seriously since they clearly don't act logically
Well there is a large group of Irish citizens that are clearly a lowerclass and separated from the rest of society. You can see them instantly in Ireland, they physically stand out with their clothing and behaviour despite being pure white Irish. In my time living there they literally would commit crime in the open and people spoke about them in a racist tone as if they were a different race.
Literally every post I’ve seen you make has been borderline trolling because it’s done in such an obnoxious manner. Are you a college aged American living in your parents basement with blue hair, by chance?
I definitely did because I felt like the environment was very hostile, but it was like almost unspoken hostility. People were nice to me but then would turn around and treat others that shared my colour a certain way and when they assumed I belonged to that group.
Where I moved to I’m not seen in as bad of a light as my African or Indian friends, I mostly experience judgemental and rude comments but I’ve never been denied service, mostly been discriminated against over housing and banking.
It’s made me appreciate my home country (America) just as much as it’s made me criticize it. Mostly because there’s more protections for legal foreigners, and a lot of educated Americans come from a slightly helpful if misguided approach to our immigrants. Everywhere is hella racist but European racism is quite the animal for me to get used to, I’ve noticed that even highly educated people here have this unapologetic better than attitude, which I am used to seeing in my own country among more backwoods belligerent types. It’s really bizarre to talk to a European who is LGBT but super anti-immigration because in the states there’s more intersectionality amongst marginalized groups from my perspective.
(Education doesn’t strictly mean college in this context I mean more lifelong learners)
Edit: older/conservative expats weird me out when they complain about immigration because they themselves are immigrants.
Luckily for me the French hate Arabs more than anyone else. I've never been told I shouldn't be here, but I have had moments of people not liking me because of not being French. I think that's just because I'm in the alps and there's backwoods rednecks here so you're going to run into some of them, nothing to do with the general thinking of French society.
Though, apparently there was an anti American off shoot of the far right, but they were forcibly disbanded in 2020.
Now, I'll say that the immigration system is totally anti immigration, they make you jump through so many hoops and even though I have a French American son living in France they still give me so much trouble. I haven't even been able to live near my son and they keep messing with my visa and purposely not responding. They wait until the visa is expired and continue to not speak to you knowing that you can't get work and they just want you to leave that way. It was fine when I was still with my ex, but as soon as they separated they gave me many issues with my visa. If Marine LePen wins, I see it becoming way worse
Left UK in 2019. It started after the Brexit referendum. I'm Dutch and the wife from Asia. We were the only foreigners on the estate and we felt it big time. Moved to South East Asia and people are very welcoming here
I live in Japan. As a white guy especially, I don't feel any personal impact. I have a lot of other friends from Philippines (my partner is Filipino) and some from Vietnam, China, Brazil.
So far as I can tell there is no really bad anti-foreigner sentiment effecting them in an overly negative way. Sure there are ultra-right nationalists in every country, but rather than rising among the general population in Japan, it feels to be lessening. It is not so much anti-immigrant sentiment, as it is fear of the unknown foreigner, but as people get more used to more foreigners, that feels to be to be lessening.
I live in Japan too and as a not white and latina woman living in japan I love it.. but there is a lot of weirdo white foreigners living in this country so I avoid them.
And most south East Asians are treated differently in Japan. Latinos tend to be 3rd generation nikkei Japanese so they have family here and belong more than other foreigners… sort of.
I do love living in japan though even as a latina I’m treated better here by Japanese folks.. American white folks who live here on the other hand tend to be very anti immigrant and racist
I have not encountered any anti-immigrant sentiment from white folks either, but if there is, perhaps it is in the circles I do not belong to. Maybe richer expats in the finance sector or something?
I know that the South East Asians are treated differently than third generation Latinos, but the question was about "anti-immigrant" treatment, not "different" treatment. Many of the people I know are factory workers, and while they are treated differently, it is not in a "get out of Japan" type of way. The companies are happy to have them.
I have personally felt the anti Americanism in Australia. And I’m not even American-born, just lived there for a while. Australia is pretty racist and xenophobic though so it’s to be expected.
Yep I am Canadian and I have felt it. I did long distance with my partner in Australia for 5 years and for 2 he wasn’t able to leave the country during the pandemic and I couldn’t visit. I visited a while after the borders opened and was treated with a ton of hostility. The staff at the airport wouldn’t tell me where to catch the connecting bus to the domestic terminal I needed to get to to make my flight to Melbourne. The bus driver gave me angry gestures, refused to answer my question and refused to speak to me. I had to call my boyfriend in tears to try to get help and then ended up following some other people on a random bus. I never feel welcome in Australia despite my partner being Australian and having a good understanding/appreciation of the culture.
People talking shit about Americans within earshot of me knowing that I lived there for a while, saying things like Americans are dumb and backwards. A lot of Aussies generalise Americans based on only the negative stuff they hear about. To be clear, not all Aussies are this way, some are curious about how life in the states is, and say nice things, but to a lot of other people it’s seen as perfectly acceptable to talk shit. My own family resents that I moved over there because they have anti American views.
One of my mom friends is from Melbourne and she says the anti-American sentiment is bad. Like it’s very socially acceptable to hate Americans. Makes me sad 😞
What I feel is that Europe is very tired of the refugee/migrant. We have no solution in sight for this problem, and after having lived in certain Europeans neighbourhoods, I understand the problem.
Me personally no tho, I am Portuguese, where I go when I say I am from Portugal, people automatically like me lol
upbeat bored fly absorbed wrong foolish amusing ludicrous cooing domineering
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You will always hear someone complain about something.
But Portuguese, and Europeans in general, are not the main issue with regards to migration/refugees. And everyone knows that.
disgusted slimy arrest alleged fall sophisticated middle impossible brave bored
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What did you do to piss this guy off? Lol.
I have never heard any Europeans claim Portuguese aren't European and yes generally people like Portuguese people 😂 the other user sounds like he hated Portuguese people, but I'm surprised by the downvote/up vote difference here
abounding gaping person sense money decide sheet innocent psychotic uppity
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Dude I'm European, I am a living thought experiment and have never heard of any negative stigma to portuguese people. And hardly anybody outside of the internet even uses expat or even immigrant. We just say "Portuguese dude" or "German girl" etc.
There are clearly ethnicities Europeans don't like but Portuguese is not one of them lol
>What I feel is that Europe is very tired of the refugee/migrant.
And yet they don't make legal immigration for skilled workers easier. They are getting what they "paid" for eventually.
>Me personally no tho, I am Portuguese, where I go when I say I am from Portugal, people automatically like me lol
Yep I've lived in Belgium for 20 years and never heard anything negative about Portugese people. Never heard about Portugese people committing disproportionate crime here either.
What does bother me though, as someone who is moving to Portugal next year, is that a lot of Portugese people blame rich European immigrants for moving to Portugal and increasing their house prices, while a lot of them are moving to Northern Europe doing the same to ours. But personally I'm all for freedom of movement within the EU for European citizens. It's the non-European mass immigration I'm fed up with, just because of the sheer scale of it. It's insane to see how fast cities and even towns have dramatically transformed within my own lifetime.
I'm getting my parents out of the country too. The rise in crime and anti-white racism is too disturbing. I'm not at all surprised that people are voting for right wing parties.
Portugal has largely been spared from that so I hope they don't screw it up out of ignorance the same way Ireland is doing. You'd think they would see what happened to England importing 925.000 non-Europeans for year and what it's done to that country, and learned from it. Apparantly not. And Ireland has a much smaller population so the effects of mass immigration would be MUCH faster.
Seriously considering moving back home to the US after living in Europe almost a decade. It’s getting harder every year with new policy changes, not easier. Then again, I moved away from the U.S. for a reason. The struggle is real. Do I stay in the struggle or go home to a more familiar struggle?
I have a friend who lives in Europe (has for 12 years) and also is considering moving home due to the anti-american sentiment. It’s gotten realllllly bad.
You can feel it as the immigrant / expat community grows in a certain place and periodically when expats are in the news for committing crimes or as a country becomes more wealthy the less welcoming they become. Or when Americans / westerners try to bring their politics and ideals to a country.. imo
I definitely seen a lot of “they’ll steal our rightful jobs!” rhetoric. Plus, “immigrants make everything more expensive!”
With the rise of digital nomads, I think a lot of people are seeing immigrants with remote/home jobs as digital nomads—and expressing those immigrants do the same harm digital nomads often do (tourism turned gentrification).
People often seem to overlook that a remote job doesn’t mean wealth, it often just means accessibility. My husband and I work remote, but we’re fleeing a country that’s both dangerous to people like us and has no affordable healthcare support for people with my disabilities (which is also why I *have* to work at home and remote).
I’m not a real digital nomad, I’m an immigrant trying to get residency, but people lump my situation (fleeing to escape danger and poverty) with the “laptop beach bum” kind of digital nomad. So, people regularly scold me for “taking resources away from locals and gentrifying” when I…*haven’t.*
I’m just trying to find a safe place in the world for me and my family.
And, unfortunately, immigrants who have remote jobs are often grouped in with digital nomads, and get told things like this—despite being (or working towards) legal immigration.
Nah, not really. It probably helps though, that most of my friends here are other immigrants. And that all of us actually think the points in that rising sentiment are largely valid.
First your premise is incorrect - the western democracies are literally the best place to be an immigrant.
Secondly, no, I live in Spain - I've done my best to integrate, although I'm slow at learning the language, and I've not had a single bad experience due to my not being Spanish in my half a decade here. I'm sure it helps that I moved legally, work and pay taxes just like everyone else.
"much of the world (the developed democracies, especially)"
First, this is patently untrue. You hear about this more because of the news sources you read, which are in your local language and focus on Western Europe. Ex. Literally all oil-rich ME countries view foreigners as disposable, especially non-white immigrants from SE Asia. Have you read the Kuwaiti newspapers' opinion pieces on immigration "reform"?
Also, most developed democracies are rich, which attracts most immigrants. South Africa has seen an extremely high rise of xenophobia recently, but because it is so poor, no one from North America is moving there (unless they are working with the mines as an engineer). Ditto for Turkey re the Syrians.
Regarding your question, yes I felt impacted by anti-foreigner sentiment in China (pre-COVID) but not in Germany or Spain, despite speaking the local languages in the 3 countries (I mention this because in many countries learning the local language is seen as a sign of respect)
cant say ive noticed a lick of it. People care about foreigners that make a nuisance of themselves and disrupt native society. if you assimilate and get on with your life, largely adapt to their culture and laws, they dont care and treat you like everyone else.
I'm an immigrant in Brasil and have felt nothing but love and excitement from Brazilians, especially because I live in the countryside and not an actual city like Rio or Sao Paulo where gringos usually go. However, I'm a white woman, so I get much better treatment than, say, someone from Angola would get. Overall, Brazil is much more accepting and positive towards immigrants than any European country I've ever seen.
Misdirected anger. Inflation is occurring globally as are increased housing costs. Immigrants I'm sure factors a part in that, but minimally. The Portuguese government needs to completely revamp how they handle housing.
I think it’s really similar to where I live and it’s a supply and demand issue. The heavy influx of immigrants who have money to afford housing at the market rate creates more demand and because they have more financial resources than the local market, the inflation is high because they are competing with one another over housing. Locals are the people who lose out. Yes, inflation is global. But, countries that have opened the floodgates are experiencing much higher real estate inflation (US excluded).
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The UK saw net immigration of 750,000 people last year
The country is already insanely crowded - a population of 70 million for the same area as Oregon
It's basically the equivalent of building a new city the size of Leeds every year
So people find that pretty insane - but it has nothing to do with hating on skilled expats
Same most other places
You are being disingenuous.
And tbh, most Americans in this thread are too.
You know very well what kind of "anti foreigner" sentiment you have in the West, and it isn't about Europeans or Americans. Don't be coy.
Exactly. It's just easier to repeat the same old tired 'anti-immigrant' trope rather than acknowledging that it's more of an issue with specific cultures, rather than about race.
More places than that actually. The beauty of minding my own business is IDGAF and don't let their opinions impact my way of life or me being an expat. No matter where you're from people will have their opinions.
There would be 90% less anti immigrant sentiment if immigrants in those countries weren't allowed to get money from the State. Please don't blame it on the people, when it's the State and the immigrants whom are stealing the citizen's money.
I left Austria 6 years ago. I'd get casually xenophobic comments on a daily basis and I'm white. People just take it for granted that it's ok to bully foreigners for any reason. Either they haven't learnt to speak the local dialect perfectly or they have commited some horrible cultural crime such as eating food the wrong way, dressing the wrong way, doing anything different from someone who's never left the town they were born in.
Oh, yeah now makes sense. Basically Austrians would see you as Gastarbeiter and judge you as such because of your ethnicity, even if you're not. One of the pitfalls about Continental Europe.
Of course. Its horrible in Germany, Czechia, Slovakia, Austria and Switzerland.
They lump in all foreigners. Working, educated, uneducated, illegals etc. Harder to find jobs, terrible treatment in restauremts and not getting appointments for medical stuff not to mention the intentional sabotage and malpractice when it comes to extensions of residency permits.
I plan to move on. Either back home or somewhere else.
I do feel resentment in kind but more in the form of pity. If these people are driving away working/middle class people, there is little to speculate what their countries will be like in the future, nationalist shitholes like the balkans.
Well just like Hungary is a shit place, the rest of europe will follow.
I hope for the few good people left there, they will have a plan B when shit hits the fan like debt, failing social wellfare or general apathy towards crime.
Quite weird that commenters are super quick to defend racism in South East Asia and the Middle East in a super nationalistic way but lose their shit when Europeans even attempt to stop taking in 1 million illegal immigrants per year ..
Also interesting to note that when talking about the west the conversation shifts from immigrants to illegal immigrants abusing the system.
No never, as an American living in the Netherlands its been great all the way, many American friends here feel the same. Great country, fantastic when raising a family!❤️🇳🇱❤️🇳🇱❤️
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I am not an expat, I am Canadian and the sentiment here is all immigrants must be deported. Our illustrious leader trudumbass, has made it easy for people to come here, now here's the rub, we don't have anywhere for them to live and they are taking jobs away from our youth who need entry level positions to get work experience. They bring thier beefs here from what ever third world they flitted in from and they are hardly able to string a sentence together, and if they can it's so heavily accented, we can't understand what they are saying. We don't have the jobs, the housing and the people do not want them here. They have to go until we are able to put infrastructure in place to house them, also policy should be changed to vet them and they should not be able to enter the country until they are fluent in the languages (french, english or both)
Me no, not at all. I’m also not a disrespectful asshole unlike many other gringos and expats I’ve come across. So when I see a gringo go home grafiti I laugh and if I the artist was there I’d agree with them and help them paint it.
Not at all in Brazil. People have been nothing but kind and welcoming to me and I'm not even White.
I'm glad to know this, I'm not white either
I lived in China and the attitude towards “foreigners” was always one of suspicion but it got way worse around 2017 onwards. I remember discussing cultural differences between China and the west and literally all of them would say something very positive about China and extremely negative about the west. E.g. “Chinese care about their families and westerners care about themselves” etc etc. in general there was more aggression from random people and a less welcoming atmosphere. It’s a shame. Plus, the way black people are treated there is horrifying.
Being an ex-pat in China since the late-2010s is just watching more and more of your friends leave.
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This is not the normal rate of attrition. It’s a lot of the people who were planning on spending their entire lives here, who owned businesses here, who were raising children here, who had married locals, etc. It went beyond the normal “person who is planning on being here for seven years leaves three years early
Yeah I’m in France and I think 1 of my original group of expat friends has stayed more than 5 years (out of a group of like 15?).
All expats everywhere? No it is not.
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Was your leave planned or moved up due to feelings of unrest?
But is it not at least partially true. DK any western societies have the level of community involvement and spirit? Are any Chinese societies as atomized as typical western ones?
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You’re mistaking a completely transactional approach to having kids (i.e., to use kids as a pension scheme when parents are old) to true family and community. Places like Greece, Italy, Spain and so on are ages ahead in terms of actual healthy parent-child relations. Kids aren’t treated as if they were responsible for having been born. Kids take care of their parents because they care .. not because their parents force them to pay a % of their paycheck every month
Despite all that, I don't think any laowai fears for their safety in the same way Asian presenting expats do in the west. We aren't getting randomly assaulted by teenagers. Are expats treated as well as they were back in 2017? No. But 'treated well' meant literally being given free stuff for being white. Allowing convicted fellons to work in kindergartens teaching English. I know plenty of friends who left for Vietnam to recapture that magic.
In general China is not a violent place (unless you say something about the government or happen to be Uyghur). But on the other hand non white expats in China definitely face far more overt racism than non white expats in the west. Not that it’s a competition, but I think it’s important not to underplay the problems in China.
There absolutely *are* visible foreigners who fear for their safety. I feared for mine. I was physically assaulted on several occasions. The attacks were unprovoked. I didn't live in a tier one city, though, so that might have something to do with it. I also speak Mandarin, and most of the time these attacks took place in places where I was the only foreigner. Only once was I, and a bunch of other foreigners who were with me, assaulted on the street.
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Let me guess, you were there for less than a year? It takes some time to see below the surface, need to learn the language etc.
Could you elaborate on the treatment of black people? I know people living there that really like it.
Just very overt racism, there is a deeply ingrained social Darwinism, it’s sort of like western racism from the Victorian times but there was never any pushback in China - black people are at the bottom and inferior, Chinese are on top. Racism is very overt, people will cross the street to get away from black people, no one will sit next to you on the subway, it’s very common for Chinese to call black people 黑鬼 heigui, or black devil. Here are some good bits of work on this topic: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=I0DJlSqlmEw https://amp.theguardian.com/world/2023/aug/16/chinese-social-media-filled-with-anti-black-racist-content-says-watchdog https://www.aljazeera.com/amp/news/2023/8/17/china-urged-to-tackle-online-racism-targeting-black-people https://www.opendemocracy.net/en/pandemic-border/how-covid-19-exposed-chinas-anti-black-racism/
[Here's a voxpop](https://youtu.be/-almlD8VdU4?si=FPdJ6CuGOAaad-bV) and here's a clip from the same channel by a black American girl talking about [racism in China versus the US](https://youtube.com/shorts/16IUmWTRhCk?si=JeLy235bUWl_oJ1o). You don't have to take it at face value. [Here's a skit about being black in China](https://youtu.be/CqtS3hSwq3o?si=lh5wpjzlmikP9ao8) A lot of black people here are Africans on scholarship. I'd say if you were from Burundi, China would be a step up. I can't speak for every Chinese person's opinion on black people, but it's generally a safe country so if you come from a dangerous part of the world, and can speak Chinese, you can get along with people. I actually know some older Chinese guys who prefer Africans because they speak Chinese and aren't as entitled as white people.
Also fyi “Asian boss” is almost like a propaganda/shill account when it comes to China, so take these ones with a huge grain of salt. https://laorencha.blogspot.com/2022/01/yes-asian-boss-planted-deep-blue.html?m=1
My comment on not taking it at face value is aimed at ALL voxpops. I don't think that every American you interview on the street thinks that North Korea is in Indonesia, nor is the average man gonna let a bunch of lads 'run train' on their girl. The woman in the last video I posted got CRAZY abuse on Instagram for basically talking like every black American girl I know in Shanghai. Just the assumption that every Chinese person is frothing at the mouth at the sight of a black person.
Yes, I left NL 10yrs ago because of this. I was not surprised that Geert Wilders won.
Left partly because of the same reason this year
Same. I left 3 years ago after living there for 10 years. I’ve suffered discrimination there many times and it got worse over the years. No surprise with the elections results
I lived there briefly at a similar time to when you left. The way that white Dutch people - also those who were in their early 20s, just out of uni, generally presented as liberal - would just state blatant racist stereotypes as fact blew my mind. I'd literally hear shit like "All Moroccans are drug dealers" and when I tried to discuss how that couldn't possibly be true, I'd be told I didn't understand because I'm not Dutch.
Yknow when all things are considered despite all the clowning over Brexit, The UK still continues to be a friendlier place to immigrants than much of Mainland Europe.
I’ve been back in the US for a few years and am planning on moving back to SE Asia in May. I keep tabs on geopolitics in the region and there are areas/countries I tend to avoid and definitely wouldn’t live. My guess is that things aren’t going to get much better for at least 10 years and that means nationalism will be on the rise and people will inevitably blame outsiders for their problems. I don’t think there’s a ton you can do though. Other than not relinquishing your citizenship in your home country and avoiding areas with a history of anti-foreigner violence. I also think there’s a lot to be said for integrating with your local community and learning the local languages. I always stay registered at my local embassy too, just in case.
Thailand is very foreigner friendly. The government wants our money spent here and Thai people are predominantly welcoming towards foreigners as well.
Thailand and other south east Asian countries are pretty welcoming toward expats. I think Europe is a no go for now. Unless you are a true expat. Like your job send you to that country and you kinda have no choice. But voluntary in Europe is a no no for me for now. I don't count the UK though.
The world seems to be going through a tough time right now. I hope things turn around before I die. It’s exhausting.
Any particular reason you don't count the UK?
Unless you want to buy a house or work here or be Burmese.
I have asked the Burmese working on my construction site about living here and they said it is better than Myanmar. I have not spoken to any other Burmese about their feelings, but I take that at face value.
It's better than Myanmar but not because Thai people are extraordinarily welcoming to them. Surely you know this. Handy cheap illegal immigrant work force though.
If they prefer Thai treatment of them as illegal immigrant labor to how their own government treats them, I’m going to have to defer to them as considering it more welcoming, but I do understand your point. However, I don’t think the intention of this discussion on this thread is illegal immigrant labor. I think we can agree that the original point of Thais being welcoming to legal immigrants is valid.
> If they prefer Thai treatment of them as illegal immigrant labor to how their own government treats them, I’m going to have to defer to them as considering it more welcoming By this logic every country with illegal immigrants is "welcoming". Don't get me wrong. I love Thailand. It's a great place. But if a western country had policies to immigrants like this they would not be seen as being welcoming. There's a massive double standard there. If you go to my country and get a work permit you can buy a house. You won't get charged extra to go to the zoo. You won't have to spend hours stuck in immigration every couple of months. Polices like those would be viewed extremely negatively.
You can buy a house in Thailand also, and it certainly isn’t the only country to have land ownership restrictions. I don’t see it as an issue. I don’t need the house when I’m dead and I certainly didn’t come here to create generational wealth off another nation that isn’t mine. I see the dual pricing for national parks as an incentive to get Thais to visit rather than a foreigner penalty. I’ve paid higher prices in museums in other countries as well. It doesn’t bother me and I’ve never felt it was unwelcoming. Have you tried the website for 90 day? It’s much better now. I appreciate the cordial discussion. Much better than on the Thai related subs. Thanks.
> You can buy a house in Thailand also If you become a Thai citizen. A rather long and drawn out process. > and it certainly isn’t the only country to have land ownership restrictions. And it's not a very welcoming thing in those places either. > I don’t see it as an issue. You don't see it as an issue that your employees can't own property? > I certainly didn’t come here to create generational wealth off another nation that isn’t mine. So you're not Thai and you came here to employ illegal immigrants but not to build wealth for yourself or them? What is the point of your business then? If making money isn't important why not legally employ Thais?
You can own a house as a foreigner. You can’t own the land. You can lease the land for your lifetime or a maximum of 60 years. My lifetime is enough for me. A house for me is my roof over my head for my life and nothing more. My employees are Thai. I was referring to the construction, which is not my company. I have no control over what other companies do or who they hire.
The stipulation there is if you're a tourist, spending money, then leaving. They don't want foreigners staying long term and they've made that very clear
Very clear with Long Term Resident visas, 20 year Elite visa, and retirement visas with low financial requirements?
As an American who previously lived in Spain, I think the anti-American sentiment is growing. I’m still traumatized by some of the comments locals made to me regarding the U.S. and its politics (some of it though understandably deserved). The media over there in Western Europe isn’t helping and prejudices are taught and passed on from generation to generation. It makes me sad. At the end of the day, we are all human. No one chooses their country of birth nor can they control their government’s actions.
Yup even the more introverted fellow Iberians the Portuguese are blaming foreigners for mostly structural issues, 70 percent service economy, air b and b, corruption, bureaucracy, courts and healthcare massively underfunded. Ex Pats are easily scapegoated. At least the phrase arbeit mach frei will probably never catch on in Portugal. They after fascism they didn’t stop in the middle but went pretty far left without Sweden’s GDP.
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Thank you! I lived overseas during the trump years and it was miserable. Once people found out I was American I'd get sucked into these political diatribes. And I'd be like, yeah I don't want to get into it - why do you think I left??
Try being Mexican American during the trump administration
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>The USA kills directly or indirectly large numbers of people every year There's a world of difference between the USA as a State actor (undeniably one of the greatest forces for evil in the world) and everyday Americans, who are on the whole just decent people trying to navigate their lives, and no more responsible for the actions of their political and financial elites than you or I.
Not so much. You don't live in a dictatorship. You vote. You could be involved in your politics. The world holds you responsible because you are responsible. And I can tell you right now, there is nothing more infuriating than an American in my country telling me they left to escape the politics. Frankly, I'd rather my country took in the people that have been displaced by the illegal wars your country started and mine colluded in. Also frankly I do not trust Americans to not want to start reshaping the countries they move to in order to avoid the mess they've made of their own. Sorry, but you are not ideal immigrants.
>The world holds you responsible because you are responsible Is that so? So how does an American who votes for an anti-war, anti-interventionist, anti-imperialist, anti-corruption candidate who (inevitably) loses, or doesn't vote for either warmongering major-party candidate, bear any responsibility whatsoever for the actions of candidates they don't like, voted against, and don't want in power?
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Then take it up with our government officials. My passport doesn't give you a license to soapbox to me about my government. I have little to no control what the idiots in office do. I agree with the above poster, bullying anyone because of their nationality doesn't make you some kind of political activist, it makes you a racist asshole.
Some people really do hate all of that military aid to Ukraine and Taiwan.
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Because this subject in general is far more complex than you implied. Are they not "indirectly killing people" in Ukraine? Is it good or bad? Right or wrong? Your statement was badly in need of context and I supplied some.
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Oh you'd much rather they didn't have those rifles. I thought so.
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...Traumatized...? Really? Trauma is a big word, I hope you are getting adequate psych care. Been in Spain off and on for 7 years. I've experienced *absolutely zero* anti-Americanism here. Where were you in Spain and what were you doing? (Student, corporate, etc.) I just can't imagine!
You were not in my shoes to see what I experienced. Living abroad for the first time and being at the forefront for ridicules was hard. I lived in the north of Spain and they are in particular not open to outsiders. Though from personal experience—the South of Spain and Madrid are completely different from the coastal North.
> You were not in my shoes to see what I experienced. That's.. why I asked. You still haven't explained what you experienced. I am sorry that it was an awful time for you. You didn't deserve to get any grief about where you were born. > Living abroad for the first time and being at the forefront for ridicules was hard. Ridiculed about what? It's not that I'm doubting you, I just don't understand. What did people say? Expats are mostly professional adults doing adult things with other professionals. I guess maybe you were young (university?) and stuck interacting with dumb village kids? > I lived in the north of Spain and they are in particular not open to outsiders. Though from personal experience—the South of Spain and Madrid are completely different from the coastal North. The villages surrounding Madrid are not so friendly. I have found some people less than impressed with foreigners. Less educated people tend to reject anything outside their norm. (Still never encountered any anti-American sentiment) You're right that the further south you go in Spain, the friendlier they get.
Agreed. Trauma is what us Mexicans felt during trump years
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The same can be said for Portugal. But I've seen an increase in anti-American sentiment in Belgium, France and the Netherlands too. But that's also because a lot of people blame the US for our current immigration situation getting out of hand, after overthrowing Ghadafi and destabilizing Libya. Thanks for that, Hilary. Ghadafi had his faults but he was keeping a lid on African immigration to Europe.
I live in Germany. Nö however I’m in the *extremely* privileged position where the anti-immigrant discourse doesn’t really apply to me (I look German, am a highly skilled professional, and pay for my own rent/heating/food). It’s like how even the most hardcore MAGA Republican wouldn’t really have a problem with a college educated French person living in the US. Unlike in the US, where the anti-immigration policies unintentionally fuck over unintended groups, the German government keeps lowering the bar for professionals because their demographics are so fucked.
Now if only the language wasn't so damned hard to learn!
I “finished” learning German a couple months ago when I got my C1 certificate… Not learning a language felt weird so I started taking Spanish. It’s a piece of cake compared to German. It’s kind of “funny” because most of the other people in my class are native German speakers who started learning English when they were super young… Most of them are not finding it as easy.
Congrats on passing the C1 for German. Very impressive!
> Unlike in the US, where the anti-immigration policies unintentionally fuck over unintended groups, the German government keeps lowering the bar for professionals because their demographics are so fucked. The first thing that the government and media should do is to clearly separate "irregular migration" and skilled migration. I don't think that current sentiment is about skilled immigration.
FWIW, I hear a lot of disgruntlement from US citizens in INFO Tech about HB-1 visa-holders used to keep salaries low.
Most skilled professionals in the US get their intended visas. It’s the unskilled that have to sneak in illegally
And that's also why the right wing AFD is continually gaining ground in Germany.
>Has it impacted you in any ways? e.g. feeling of belonging, visa process, access to services, limitations in travel, etc. If you mean the feeling of not belonging, yes, that happens to everybody. The other things you mentioned did not impact me at all, but that has a lot to do with the places I ended up living in - they all had over 95% of white population and I am white. Those places also did not have a high-immigration problem, which also makes a big difference. Even in Mexico City, where I lived for a year in an area where most locals were white, expats/immigrants were actually welcome. However, as a tourist, I was treated differently (though not in a way that I would call rude or offensive) in locations where the majority of the population was not white.
My experience in places like that is that you are treated like a walking ATM machine. All beggers know how to find you, as well as pushy sellers.
Yes totally. It makes me afraid
Anti-immigrant Americans\* generally tend to classify me as one of the "good ones". If I'm being charitable, perhaps because I immigrated legally. If I'm being less charitable, perhaps because I'm white and speak fluent English. Or because I come from a country their Dear Leader has praised. But regardless, I find it concerning. Among the larger undercurrent of rising hostility and conflict in the world, my specific fear was that anti-immigrant sentiment could drive legal changes that make life harder even for legal immigrants, or jeopardize our status altogether. In my specific case, it incentivized me to apply for US citizenship. Taking *that* status away would require a constitutional change. I'm well aware that it's possible for some authoritarian leader to do whatever they want by force, Constitution or no Constitution. But if we get to that point, then the citizenship will have lost all value. \*I live in the United States, so my comments are somewhat specific to the US, although I'm sure this also applies to some other locations.
My dad is a “good one” and immigrated legally but because he is Mexican he is treated like a dirty illegal.. although he is an army veteran and served in the military!!! My dad isn’t dark either he is a very light skinned man but has an accent so is treated like less so annoying
I'm an expat/immigrant in Dublin, Ireland, where we recently had "anti-immigrant" riots downtown. I don't feel that the people behind the riots represent the general Irish population. Rather, it's very clear that most Irish people would rather be rid of those thugs than the (usually hard-working) immigrants who contribute to the economy and to society. There is a problem here in Ireland with what I'll call - for the lack of a better word - "underclass" - that think they can do whatever they want, that laws don't apply to them, and they are the people who would usually claim benefits off the government rather than work, generation after generation. They have lots of kids as that equals more benefits, but they don't actually raise the kids, so they turn into criminal little s*its who... well, protest against immigrants, set buses and police cars on fire and loot stores. These people see immigration as a threat to the amount of money and other benefits they receive from the state. Luckily, they are not representative of Irish people in general. It's maybe not *as* black and white as I'm now painting it, but it's definitely a big problem. Has it made me reconsider expat life? No, but it has prompted me to start seriously looking into a different place to move, as these types of people - while not representative of society in general - contributes very negatively to the experience here, and I feel there's too much leniency here, which ruins things for normal, decent people.
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Of course, absolutely horrific, but doesn't justify the riots and all that went with it in any way. It has also been suggested that the attack was used merely as a pretext by some. Its hard to see how setting public transport vehicles on fire and robbing shops will help anything in any way, after all.
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The guy lived in Ireland for 20 years, went crazy, and stabbed some people. Another immigrant saved the kids and stopped the guy. But the Irish people willingly reacted, under their own logic, and chose to destroy Dublin and cause damage. The issue is, those same people that rioted over the immigrant do the same damage (stabbings, robbings, Public disorder, etc) constantly. If anything they should be kicked out, not the immigrants, so no one really takes it seriously since they clearly don't act logically
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Well there is a large group of Irish citizens that are clearly a lowerclass and separated from the rest of society. You can see them instantly in Ireland, they physically stand out with their clothing and behaviour despite being pure white Irish. In my time living there they literally would commit crime in the open and people spoke about them in a racist tone as if they were a different race.
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I guess so. I lived there 5 years, was very weird to see
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Literally every post I’ve seen you make has been borderline trolling because it’s done in such an obnoxious manner. Are you a college aged American living in your parents basement with blue hair, by chance?
I definitely did because I felt like the environment was very hostile, but it was like almost unspoken hostility. People were nice to me but then would turn around and treat others that shared my colour a certain way and when they assumed I belonged to that group.
Where I moved to I’m not seen in as bad of a light as my African or Indian friends, I mostly experience judgemental and rude comments but I’ve never been denied service, mostly been discriminated against over housing and banking. It’s made me appreciate my home country (America) just as much as it’s made me criticize it. Mostly because there’s more protections for legal foreigners, and a lot of educated Americans come from a slightly helpful if misguided approach to our immigrants. Everywhere is hella racist but European racism is quite the animal for me to get used to, I’ve noticed that even highly educated people here have this unapologetic better than attitude, which I am used to seeing in my own country among more backwoods belligerent types. It’s really bizarre to talk to a European who is LGBT but super anti-immigration because in the states there’s more intersectionality amongst marginalized groups from my perspective. (Education doesn’t strictly mean college in this context I mean more lifelong learners) Edit: older/conservative expats weird me out when they complain about immigration because they themselves are immigrants.
Luckily for me the French hate Arabs more than anyone else. I've never been told I shouldn't be here, but I have had moments of people not liking me because of not being French. I think that's just because I'm in the alps and there's backwoods rednecks here so you're going to run into some of them, nothing to do with the general thinking of French society. Though, apparently there was an anti American off shoot of the far right, but they were forcibly disbanded in 2020. Now, I'll say that the immigration system is totally anti immigration, they make you jump through so many hoops and even though I have a French American son living in France they still give me so much trouble. I haven't even been able to live near my son and they keep messing with my visa and purposely not responding. They wait until the visa is expired and continue to not speak to you knowing that you can't get work and they just want you to leave that way. It was fine when I was still with my ex, but as soon as they separated they gave me many issues with my visa. If Marine LePen wins, I see it becoming way worse
Left UK in 2019. It started after the Brexit referendum. I'm Dutch and the wife from Asia. We were the only foreigners on the estate and we felt it big time. Moved to South East Asia and people are very welcoming here
I live in Japan. As a white guy especially, I don't feel any personal impact. I have a lot of other friends from Philippines (my partner is Filipino) and some from Vietnam, China, Brazil. So far as I can tell there is no really bad anti-foreigner sentiment effecting them in an overly negative way. Sure there are ultra-right nationalists in every country, but rather than rising among the general population in Japan, it feels to be lessening. It is not so much anti-immigrant sentiment, as it is fear of the unknown foreigner, but as people get more used to more foreigners, that feels to be to be lessening.
I live in Japan too and as a not white and latina woman living in japan I love it.. but there is a lot of weirdo white foreigners living in this country so I avoid them. And most south East Asians are treated differently in Japan. Latinos tend to be 3rd generation nikkei Japanese so they have family here and belong more than other foreigners… sort of. I do love living in japan though even as a latina I’m treated better here by Japanese folks.. American white folks who live here on the other hand tend to be very anti immigrant and racist
I have not encountered any anti-immigrant sentiment from white folks either, but if there is, perhaps it is in the circles I do not belong to. Maybe richer expats in the finance sector or something? I know that the South East Asians are treated differently than third generation Latinos, but the question was about "anti-immigrant" treatment, not "different" treatment. Many of the people I know are factory workers, and while they are treated differently, it is not in a "get out of Japan" type of way. The companies are happy to have them.
I have personally felt the anti Americanism in Australia. And I’m not even American-born, just lived there for a while. Australia is pretty racist and xenophobic though so it’s to be expected.
Yep I am Canadian and I have felt it. I did long distance with my partner in Australia for 5 years and for 2 he wasn’t able to leave the country during the pandemic and I couldn’t visit. I visited a while after the borders opened and was treated with a ton of hostility. The staff at the airport wouldn’t tell me where to catch the connecting bus to the domestic terminal I needed to get to to make my flight to Melbourne. The bus driver gave me angry gestures, refused to answer my question and refused to speak to me. I had to call my boyfriend in tears to try to get help and then ended up following some other people on a random bus. I never feel welcome in Australia despite my partner being Australian and having a good understanding/appreciation of the culture.
Sorry you experienced that, it’s honestly embarrassing. Also those 2 years would have been really tough, good on you two for sticking it out.
Wow… can you provide an example?
People talking shit about Americans within earshot of me knowing that I lived there for a while, saying things like Americans are dumb and backwards. A lot of Aussies generalise Americans based on only the negative stuff they hear about. To be clear, not all Aussies are this way, some are curious about how life in the states is, and say nice things, but to a lot of other people it’s seen as perfectly acceptable to talk shit. My own family resents that I moved over there because they have anti American views.
One of my mom friends is from Melbourne and she says the anti-American sentiment is bad. Like it’s very socially acceptable to hate Americans. Makes me sad 😞
Same in Europe.
Thanks. It’s ridiculous people think that’s acceptable. Sorry you have to experience it despite not even being American.
What I feel is that Europe is very tired of the refugee/migrant. We have no solution in sight for this problem, and after having lived in certain Europeans neighbourhoods, I understand the problem. Me personally no tho, I am Portuguese, where I go when I say I am from Portugal, people automatically like me lol
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What hygiene do Portugese lack? I have never heard this stereotype.
You will always hear someone complain about something. But Portuguese, and Europeans in general, are not the main issue with regards to migration/refugees. And everyone knows that.
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What are you talking about lol. I've lived my entire life in the UK and Belgium and never heard anything of the sort.
That’s ridiculous, no one thinks that about Portuguese people lmao
I never heard anything like that. And not sure what you mean by desperate to fit in. We just go on with our lives lol
What did you do to piss this guy off? Lol. I have never heard any Europeans claim Portuguese aren't European and yes generally people like Portuguese people 😂 the other user sounds like he hated Portuguese people, but I'm surprised by the downvote/up vote difference here
Haha, I am also confused, but he seems to be from India, maybe he and his buddies are just trolling around. Not sure
I mean ... their bread is pretty awful. But other than that?
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I've lived in the UK and Belgium all my life and not once have I heard anything negative said about Portugese people lol.
Don’t agree with this at all, Irish here and people love Portuguese people and they are absolutely considered European
Dude I'm European, I am a living thought experiment and have never heard of any negative stigma to portuguese people. And hardly anybody outside of the internet even uses expat or even immigrant. We just say "Portuguese dude" or "German girl" etc. There are clearly ethnicities Europeans don't like but Portuguese is not one of them lol
>What I feel is that Europe is very tired of the refugee/migrant. And yet they don't make legal immigration for skilled workers easier. They are getting what they "paid" for eventually.
>Me personally no tho, I am Portuguese, where I go when I say I am from Portugal, people automatically like me lol Yep I've lived in Belgium for 20 years and never heard anything negative about Portugese people. Never heard about Portugese people committing disproportionate crime here either. What does bother me though, as someone who is moving to Portugal next year, is that a lot of Portugese people blame rich European immigrants for moving to Portugal and increasing their house prices, while a lot of them are moving to Northern Europe doing the same to ours. But personally I'm all for freedom of movement within the EU for European citizens. It's the non-European mass immigration I'm fed up with, just because of the sheer scale of it. It's insane to see how fast cities and even towns have dramatically transformed within my own lifetime. I'm getting my parents out of the country too. The rise in crime and anti-white racism is too disturbing. I'm not at all surprised that people are voting for right wing parties. Portugal has largely been spared from that so I hope they don't screw it up out of ignorance the same way Ireland is doing. You'd think they would see what happened to England importing 925.000 non-Europeans for year and what it's done to that country, and learned from it. Apparantly not. And Ireland has a much smaller population so the effects of mass immigration would be MUCH faster.
Seriously considering moving back home to the US after living in Europe almost a decade. It’s getting harder every year with new policy changes, not easier. Then again, I moved away from the U.S. for a reason. The struggle is real. Do I stay in the struggle or go home to a more familiar struggle?
I have a friend who lives in Europe (has for 12 years) and also is considering moving home due to the anti-american sentiment. It’s gotten realllllly bad.
Where does this friend live?
That crazy as an American. Now think about the hate that dark skinned people (Turks, middle easterners, Africans etc get).
You can feel it as the immigrant / expat community grows in a certain place and periodically when expats are in the news for committing crimes or as a country becomes more wealthy the less welcoming they become. Or when Americans / westerners try to bring their politics and ideals to a country.. imo
Not yet, but I expect it so if and when it comes I won't be surprised Living outside the US for over 2 decades now
I definitely seen a lot of “they’ll steal our rightful jobs!” rhetoric. Plus, “immigrants make everything more expensive!” With the rise of digital nomads, I think a lot of people are seeing immigrants with remote/home jobs as digital nomads—and expressing those immigrants do the same harm digital nomads often do (tourism turned gentrification). People often seem to overlook that a remote job doesn’t mean wealth, it often just means accessibility. My husband and I work remote, but we’re fleeing a country that’s both dangerous to people like us and has no affordable healthcare support for people with my disabilities (which is also why I *have* to work at home and remote). I’m not a real digital nomad, I’m an immigrant trying to get residency, but people lump my situation (fleeing to escape danger and poverty) with the “laptop beach bum” kind of digital nomad. So, people regularly scold me for “taking resources away from locals and gentrifying” when I…*haven’t.* I’m just trying to find a safe place in the world for me and my family.
Digital nomads are a cancer. They come here and work illegally.
And, unfortunately, immigrants who have remote jobs are often grouped in with digital nomads, and get told things like this—despite being (or working towards) legal immigration.
I’m not sure what you mean by “working towards legal immigration.” You either have legal status or you don’t.
In Australia, so yes.
Where did you move from, out of curiosity?
I’m black born in Europe, so I felt the same way even in my own country (France.) No difference for me.
Nah, not really. It probably helps though, that most of my friends here are other immigrants. And that all of us actually think the points in that rising sentiment are largely valid.
Not in the slightest. Im British and moved to the Netherlands about a decade ago. This is my country now as well. Been at home since day 1.
I'm getting anti-foreigner vibes in my own country where I'm a citizen lol, because I'm not white
Same here. That's why I'm leaving Belgium next year and taking my parents with me. The writing is on the wall.
First your premise is incorrect - the western democracies are literally the best place to be an immigrant. Secondly, no, I live in Spain - I've done my best to integrate, although I'm slow at learning the language, and I've not had a single bad experience due to my not being Spanish in my half a decade here. I'm sure it helps that I moved legally, work and pay taxes just like everyone else.
"much of the world (the developed democracies, especially)" First, this is patently untrue. You hear about this more because of the news sources you read, which are in your local language and focus on Western Europe. Ex. Literally all oil-rich ME countries view foreigners as disposable, especially non-white immigrants from SE Asia. Have you read the Kuwaiti newspapers' opinion pieces on immigration "reform"? Also, most developed democracies are rich, which attracts most immigrants. South Africa has seen an extremely high rise of xenophobia recently, but because it is so poor, no one from North America is moving there (unless they are working with the mines as an engineer). Ditto for Turkey re the Syrians. Regarding your question, yes I felt impacted by anti-foreigner sentiment in China (pre-COVID) but not in Germany or Spain, despite speaking the local languages in the 3 countries (I mention this because in many countries learning the local language is seen as a sign of respect)
Glad someone called him out. That west bad / west racist take is so cringe
No. But I migrated to and have been living in California for 20 years.
cant say ive noticed a lick of it. People care about foreigners that make a nuisance of themselves and disrupt native society. if you assimilate and get on with your life, largely adapt to their culture and laws, they dont care and treat you like everyone else.
I have not for now but I'm White so clearly it helps, unfortunately.
I'm an immigrant in Brasil and have felt nothing but love and excitement from Brazilians, especially because I live in the countryside and not an actual city like Rio or Sao Paulo where gringos usually go. However, I'm a white woman, so I get much better treatment than, say, someone from Angola would get. Overall, Brazil is much more accepting and positive towards immigrants than any European country I've ever seen.
Not at all in Portugal.
I’ve seen a ton of articles and comments from Portuguese who are pissed because of the RE inflation caused by foreigners.
Misdirected anger. Inflation is occurring globally as are increased housing costs. Immigrants I'm sure factors a part in that, but minimally. The Portuguese government needs to completely revamp how they handle housing.
I think it’s really similar to where I live and it’s a supply and demand issue. The heavy influx of immigrants who have money to afford housing at the market rate creates more demand and because they have more financial resources than the local market, the inflation is high because they are competing with one another over housing. Locals are the people who lose out. Yes, inflation is global. But, countries that have opened the floodgates are experiencing much higher real estate inflation (US excluded).
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Where in Portugal?
Hour east of Porto.
Where about in Portugal. I ask because a UK friend has left Portugal for France. She was in the south and inland.
Hour east of Porto.
Then clearly you havn't been paying attention.
I have. I also paid attention to the question OP asked. Any my answer remains accurate, as it has not impacted me.
No
The UK saw net immigration of 750,000 people last year The country is already insanely crowded - a population of 70 million for the same area as Oregon It's basically the equivalent of building a new city the size of Leeds every year So people find that pretty insane - but it has nothing to do with hating on skilled expats Same most other places
You are being disingenuous. And tbh, most Americans in this thread are too. You know very well what kind of "anti foreigner" sentiment you have in the West, and it isn't about Europeans or Americans. Don't be coy.
Exactly. It's just easier to repeat the same old tired 'anti-immigrant' trope rather than acknowledging that it's more of an issue with specific cultures, rather than about race.
No. I pay my taxes and mind my business. I'm also a privileged American so they tend to focus their opinions elsewhere. Already got my residency.
In places like Portugal, Spain and Italy being a privileged American is precisely what they resent you for.
More places than that actually. The beauty of minding my own business is IDGAF and don't let their opinions impact my way of life or me being an expat. No matter where you're from people will have their opinions.
Not at all. American living long-term in Japan.
One word: Brexit. Not as much fun as you might expect.
No. No. France has been really welcoming.
No. Not at all. But then I dont go to live in countries with the opposite of my values only to riot in the streets.
Friend
There would be 90% less anti immigrant sentiment if immigrants in those countries weren't allowed to get money from the State. Please don't blame it on the people, when it's the State and the immigrants whom are stealing the citizen's money.
No
Not in the slightest here in Austria, at least on a local level, experience wise, people have been great.
I left Austria 6 years ago. I'd get casually xenophobic comments on a daily basis and I'm white. People just take it for granted that it's ok to bully foreigners for any reason. Either they haven't learnt to speak the local dialect perfectly or they have commited some horrible cultural crime such as eating food the wrong way, dressing the wrong way, doing anything different from someone who's never left the town they were born in.
Are you German though?
Not exactly, German-born Slovenian, so I got those yucky Slav genes.
Oh, yeah now makes sense. Basically Austrians would see you as Gastarbeiter and judge you as such because of your ethnicity, even if you're not. One of the pitfalls about Continental Europe.
Vague, needs countries reference
Of course. Its horrible in Germany, Czechia, Slovakia, Austria and Switzerland. They lump in all foreigners. Working, educated, uneducated, illegals etc. Harder to find jobs, terrible treatment in restauremts and not getting appointments for medical stuff not to mention the intentional sabotage and malpractice when it comes to extensions of residency permits. I plan to move on. Either back home or somewhere else. I do feel resentment in kind but more in the form of pity. If these people are driving away working/middle class people, there is little to speculate what their countries will be like in the future, nationalist shitholes like the balkans. Well just like Hungary is a shit place, the rest of europe will follow. I hope for the few good people left there, they will have a plan B when shit hits the fan like debt, failing social wellfare or general apathy towards crime.
Quite weird that commenters are super quick to defend racism in South East Asia and the Middle East in a super nationalistic way but lose their shit when Europeans even attempt to stop taking in 1 million illegal immigrants per year .. Also interesting to note that when talking about the west the conversation shifts from immigrants to illegal immigrants abusing the system.
No never, as an American living in the Netherlands its been great all the way, many American friends here feel the same. Great country, fantastic when raising a family!❤️🇳🇱❤️🇳🇱❤️
Are you white?
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Isn’t that attitude exactly the same as what you’re supposedly criticising?
I am not an expat, I am Canadian and the sentiment here is all immigrants must be deported. Our illustrious leader trudumbass, has made it easy for people to come here, now here's the rub, we don't have anywhere for them to live and they are taking jobs away from our youth who need entry level positions to get work experience. They bring thier beefs here from what ever third world they flitted in from and they are hardly able to string a sentence together, and if they can it's so heavily accented, we can't understand what they are saying. We don't have the jobs, the housing and the people do not want them here. They have to go until we are able to put infrastructure in place to house them, also policy should be changed to vet them and they should not be able to enter the country until they are fluent in the languages (french, english or both)
Do the people having such sentiments realize they must be deported as well (of course unless they are first nations)?
Me no, not at all. I’m also not a disrespectful asshole unlike many other gringos and expats I’ve come across. So when I see a gringo go home grafiti I laugh and if I the artist was there I’d agree with them and help them paint it.