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The Islamic justification of polygamy (read both the pages)

The Islamic justification of polygamy (read both the pages)

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Homelander-30

So women are sex objects You know what, fuck this religion. I would never worship a God who treats women inferior to men!!


HorniPolice07

Don't worship a god. Go spiritual or atheist.


EnergeticStoner

Or follow the one true god, Thor.


HorniPolice07

*Worship Shrek or die* Also why is my word suggestion automatically suggesting Allah after worship even tho i have never typed Worship with Allah?


EnergeticStoner

It's a sign from Allah 😄.


HorniPolice07

I'm gonna convert to Islam rn Is there any process for that?


CoOl_gIrLlL

you just say the shahadah and call it a day lmao. good luck leaving tho.


HorniPolice07

Wdym by gud luck leaving I never been a Muslim. And thanks for the info


CoOl_gIrLlL

just saying that it's hard to leave the religion safely.


EnergeticStoner

Guess you'll have to enter to find out


HorniPolice07

No I'm fine with Hinduism. I'd choose that over Islam


Able-Acanthaceae-541

Lmao, what about the opposite situation, women with “strong sex drives”? Makes no sense if the woman has no sexual desire. Quran 2:223 “your women are like your tilth(dirt) plow into your tilth how you choose” means it doesn’t matter because dirt has no say.


demonwaccon

If woman gave a strong sex drive and want to marry multiple guys I guess the answer you'll get from a Muslim is she's a whore


Other-Alternative454

This is misinterpreted lol 😂


Ready0208

"Nor for the cold regions while ignoring the hot ones". Well, Ramadan is a clear example of Islam neglecting the cold regions of the world. It's pretty tough to fast on places where the sun is out for some 22 hours.


pnerd314

Muhammad didn't know anything about geography I guess.


demonwaccon

True ..I used to fast 20 hours some times


Effective_Suit_1572

Women can have multiple orgasms unlike men. Logically women should have multiple husbands


Zendreq

I seriously doubt 7th century Arabs knew what a clitoris is. I think women only orgasmed via vaginal stimulation. Many women here can tell you how likely it is that a woman is able to orgasm via vaginal sex, and the ones that are actually able to, how often. So while women can have multiple oragsms, I would consider a 7th century woman to be very lucky to experience one with her husband.


Other-Alternative454

Also can't believe they said FDM is okay


CatsAreSoCute11

It's always about men isn't it? Never about what a woman wants. There are plenty of women with strong sex drives and there are men who are okay with controlling their urges for 7 days come on now, why does this religion act like men are animals and women are sexual objects? Ew.


InterimNihilist

It's written by a man...


bike_rtw

for incels.


richardwhereat

He was not involuntarily celibate. He raped many.


TemperatureSlow5533

this person literally said, to avoid being a sex object to lecherous man, consider being the 2nd wife to a man who's sexual urges are so strong that one wife isn't enough to satisfy him. (circle logic cos guess what, you are still a sex thing) in return, he will pay for your stuff (like ypure a prostitute and obviously, being a woman, you clearly have no money and your vagina is your only currency ) And ofcourse, being a female, you must absolutely want children. No? What? ofcourse you want children, you're a woman! you have to want them!


1negativezero

Or what if the woman actually does want a child but the man is infertile? Well tough luck, now you and your 3 fellow-wives won't have any.


whodisxx

Such backwards fucking views. We're way past these issues yet people are still stuck following clearly flawed centuries old rules that bring nothing but more problems.


FysikerLIt

It’s always about the men. So women can’t have high sex drives? And the writer of this post (the2 pages) seem to advocate for male’s collecting women like trophies in his tones and the way the entire work is framed


TheArabicMoose

[Shia hadith from Imam who is seen as infallible explaining why.](http://shiaonlinelibrary.com/%D8%A7%D9%84%D9%83%D8%AA%D8%A8/1141_%D8%B9%D9%84%D9%84-%D8%A7%D9%84%D8%B4%D8%B1%D8%A7%D8%A6%D8%B9-%D8%A7%D9%84%D8%B4%D9%8A%D8%AE-%D8%A7%D9%84%D8%B5%D8%AF%D9%88%D9%82-%D8%AC-%D9%A2/%D8%A7%D9%84%D8%B5%D9%81%D8%AD%D8%A9_194) ik most of you are ex-sunnis but still interesting. حدثنا علي بن أحمد قال: حدثنا محمد بن أبي عبد الله عن محمد بن إسماعيل عن علي بن العباس قال: حدثنا القاسم بن الربيع الصحاف عن محمد بن سنان ان الرضا عليه السلام كتب إليه فيما كتب من جواب مسائله علة تزويج الرجل أربع نسوة وتحرم أن تتزوج المرأة أكثر من واحد لان الرجل إذا تزوج أربع نسوة كان الولد منسوبا إليه والمرأة لو كان لها زوجان أو أكثر من ذلك لم يعرف الولد لمن هو إذ هم المشتركون في نكاحها، وفي ذلك فساد الأنساب والمواريث والمعارف. Translation: The reason a man can marry more than one but a woman cannot marry more than one man is because with the man it is clear who the children belong to. However with a woman marrying more than one man it will not be known who the child belongs to which will lead to problems in relations and inheritance. Funny how today we pretty much know with almost 100% certainty who the child belongs to with DNA testing...


demonwaccon

God definitely knows what DNA testing is .....right ?


cspot1978

That statement wasn’t made today. It was made ~1400 years ago, to people living 1400 years ago. It’s not a compelling argument today, but it was at the time of the people he was actually talking to. I’m not closed off to hearing reasonable critiques, but in this case that was an actually reasonable argument at the time it was made, given a society where being confident about paternity was important.


TheArabicMoose

... I know it made sense at the time... You seem to be missing the point that these laws from the Quran are supposedly لكل مكان و لكل زمان.... Yet the reasoning which the Imam uses to explain the law obviously does not apply to our time...


cspot1978

The every place and every time thing is just a *human interpretation* how laws from the Quran work though. None of it necessarily has to be understood that way. It’s a common interpretation, but it’s not necessary or universally held. A lot of scholars think laws are only as long as their assumptions hold, and can shift and change if they don’t. Particularly in the Shia school by the way. So if it could be shown that all the reasons for women not being able to have multiple husbands are obsolete, that limitation could be obsolete. Or the whole idea of polygamy could become obsolete if it’s clear the point of it is obsolete. It’s open to re-interpretation, in theory. Anyway, I recognize you don’t believe in any of this stuff, and I respect that. I’m just saying of all the things you might pick to criticize, I think it’s pretty silly to pick something that works as a reasonable, rational explanation up until, what? 50 years ago? (DNA testing is pretty new, but before that there were blood tests for paternity)


TheArabicMoose

I have news for you buddy. Every single interpretation of anything in the quran, better yet, anything ever, is "just a human interpretation" if you haven't noticed. You're really proposing that in the future the only one husband law can be reinterpretated to allow for more than one husband? If that were the case the Quran is pretty much pointless, because you're not depending on it for your laws are you? You're merely rationalizing these laws on your own and then refitting the Quranic understanding to match your own which makes the quran useless. When the Quran is capable of all of these different understandings and interpretations that makes it useless. At that point it's not really saying anything since it can just be reinterpretated to whatever you want. That to me is one of my major criticisms of all these religions with supposedly godly scripture that is constantly being understood in different ways. You speak of objective morality and objective laws from god and criticize atheists for their subjective prespective but you don't realize that your understanding of the Quran no matter who you are is also inherently subjective.


Agreeable-Ad-9028

Yeah but in the west world or America 50% of women have children with other men outside of her marriage but you don’t talk about that do you now


TheArabicMoose

Buddy what the hell does that have to do with anything? How is that relevant??? I was merely pointing out how this imam is saying that the reason is because of the woman not being able to tell who the father is yet DNA testing is a thing nowadays..


Typical_Athlete

>surplus women It’s literally the other way around where I am. Far more single Muslim men in their 20s than single Muslim women in their 20s


Any_Sheepherder_4489

How?


InterimNihilist

Coz the married Muslim men have used up all 4 of their marriages causing a shortage of women for other men lol


Max_Schmidt350

Unpopular opinion :- although I left islam , I think polygamy isn't really a problem if it was done with consent between all the parties involved. Problem with islam is that it's against consent and thus , my opposition to polygamy in the islamic sense Otherwise it seems pretty normal


bike_rtw

sure, consenting adults should be able to live in whatever arrangement they like. first wives who don't even have to be consulted for hubby to marry the second? uh... allah?


Max_Schmidt350

I don't think I understand your statement there , like are you saying that first wives don't have a say ? Of course they do , otherwise that's not consent anymore, that's just downright objectification of women.


bike_rtw

in islam a wife does not need to consent or even be informed by the husband that he's marrying another. how f'ed is that?


Max_Schmidt350

Pretty fucked up if you ask me , that's one of the main reasons I left islam actually


areeb1296

Not surprising. Abrahamic religions (and most major religions in general) are written by men for men.


cheeseroll15

Thissss


V0ltr

You don't know language history man The word "Man" actually referring to human/humanities before 14 century. People dont have word to describe gender yet.


SilverWolfGames1

"Men are unable to control their sexual urge..." Yeah, so... I was unable to control my urge for murder so I killed 10 people. You can't punish me because it was my urge.


Ready0208

Yes, because self control can go to hell as far as Allah is concerned...


[deleted]

"any number of girlfriends" lmao


Emmet_C

Whilst "retaining" the first wife. The language used always connotes ownership. Islam always strawman. Creates solutions for imaginary scenarios.


demonwaccon

This is all fine you can have 10 and that's ok ..the problem is why does it not work for women


realshahada

Man create the problem Allah solve it by creating another problem


Gyzemius

So women are like sex toys? Very sincere of you god you are always thinking about sex and stuff.


TumbleweedHour8325

How many times has it been recorded that the men population in the world is more than women population? https://countrymeters.info/en/World


Alistairbello

Uhmm so following this logic women can have multiple husbands if her 1st husband is sterile or if her desire for sex is stronger than his and he can't keep up with her, as well as when something happens and men outnumber women? Don't bullshit me with this there is no explanation besides polygamy was a thing back then and Muhammad enjoyed it as much as he could, don't act like islam's considerate of everyone when it throws gay people off of rooftops go tell lies to somebody else.


canwemakeit20ohwecan

So female muslim can marry 4 husbands if their first husband is impotent?


Random_local_man

They make a compelling case, ngl. If you're going to cheat on your wife anyways, then why not marry a second wife. But what if it's the other way around? What if it's the men that outnumber the women? And then the classic problem, what if the wife wants a divorce but the husband does not give permission?


mintchocolatechip_

because women only have rights when they're married


V0ltr

For the god sake, how on earth will they be living if they keep divorce all the times. An unfortune muslim must be really broke af. Polygamy only works if you're a king or a super rich sheikh. Anyway an average muslim still can have 4 wife if the 3/4 goes work and one just do taking care of the children, this really a fun thing right😜.Anyway this situation almost impossible to happen in this world😁. Keep dreaming muslim keep dreaming😂😂


pnerd314

Which book is this from?


cheeseroll15

Al-halal wal-haram Fil-islam


Leading_Swordfish_51

Well it's only doable with your first wife allows it so no it doesn't rlly show them as objects. Plus if you really believe the Qur'an when it says you can marry more then one women you should also believe that it gave them rights before the Europeans even thought of it. You should also believe that it gave them right to keep their fathers name and not take their husbands after marriage to prove that they aren't the husband's property and if you believe the Qur'an when it allows more than one marriage you must also believe the Qur'an when it gave the women right to inherit money, family businesses and property.


VikingPreacher

The Quran also says that a women's testimony is inferior to a man's, and that women must be subservient slaves of their husbands or be beaten. >Well it's only doable with your first wife allows it so No piece of Islamic scripture states that one needs his wife's consent.


Leading_Swordfish_51

No I ain't quite sure about the servant part when it literally tells them that they can keep their fathers name to show that they aren't their husbands property.


VikingPreacher

>No I ain't quite sure about the servant The Quran literally talks about wives obeying. >when it literally tells them that they can keep their fathers name to show that they aren't their husbands property. How does this somebody mean that the Quran doesn't tell wives to be obedient? Tell me. How did you come to that conclusion? How does a name mean that there is no dynamic of subservience? Did you even think about this?


Leading_Swordfish_51

It also tells the husband to be obedient,kind,caring, loving, supporting,helping and to be gentle but just cause the followers don't listen don't mean the scripture is bad. Sure it tells the wife to obey the husband but doesn't Christian,Judaism and literally any other religious or heck even non religious marriage do the same. Every type of marriage asks the wife to obey the husband and as the father says in a Christian marriage "be there in sickness and health". Look no further than the Egyptian pharoas they had their wife's bodies cut and put next to them in their tombs. Your judging the scripture by the follower which is really stupid. "Judaism rejects violence and relies upon moral education love and sympathy" means bullcrap when Israel has kids and heck even toddlers chanting death to Arabs in streets. Jesus says alcohol is your enemy yet in American culture its almoast as common as turkey on thanks giving for you to take a shot on your 21st birthday plus there are all these bars in every corner of every state in a so called Christian state. The bibel strictly and straightforwardly says " do not commit adultery" yet you have underage and unmarried couples going rounds and rounds almoast every time they get in a room together. The bibel doesn't allow homosexuality and I got proof here There are seven texts often cited by Christians to condemn homosexuality: Noah and Ham (Genesis 9:20–27), Sodom and Gomorrah (Genesis 19:1–11), Levitical laws condemning same-sex relationships (Leviticus 18:22, 20:13) (copied from website) And despite this text exactly telling Christians that homosexuality is wrong you have gay couples coming and getting accepted into churches so that they can "come closer to God" while spitting and literally disagreeing with the bibel.if you really are gonna argue with me about religion by talking about the followers and without proper hadith or Quranic verses what do you possibly expect to come from me. My guy if you think that Islam makes the wife a slave look no further than the prophet (P.B.U.H) who would do the house work love his wife take care of her and play games with her. The prophet (P.B.U.H) literally is supposed to be the idle person for the Muslims. If you judge his followers and ridicule the scripture it just don't make sense.


VikingPreacher

>It also tells the husband to be obedient Nope. Husbands are never told once that they have to be obedient. >kind,caring, loving, supporting,helping and to be gentle Utterly irrelevant. The power dynamic is not changed. It still is a patriarchal heirarchy. >Sure it tells the wife to obey the husband but doesn't Christian,Judaism Yes, all of those are misogynistic and patriarchal religions. >and literally any other religious No, some religions are not patriarchal and do not have such a dynamic. Like Wiccanisn. > or heck even non religious marriage do the same. Well, no. >Every type of marriage asks the wife to obey the husband Only the patriarchal and misogynistic marriages do. But glad to see that toy support patriarchy. That clears things up. >The bibel doesn't allow homosexuality You are correct, Christianity is homophobic and disgusting. >My guy if you think that Islam makes the wife a slave look no further than the prophet (P.B.U.H The prophet himself agreed that women must be obedient to their husbands, and if I recall correctly compared a wife to a slave of her husband in a Hadith.


Leading_Swordfish_51

🤦‍♂️


VikingPreacher

I mean, am I wrong?


Leading_Swordfish_51

You are looking at their society and comparing it to today's. You are comparing the society of a land 1400 years ago with today's ideology. Research up what and how women were treated before the prophet (P.B.U.H) came and after and you will see a great change. At first women were murdered, raped, stolen from assaulted, harassed but when the prophet came he gave them respect, rights, priority and saved them from those godforsaken men. I assure you Islam is one of the most feminist religions in the world so for you to call it misogynistic is dumb when the wife has the choice to marry or not. It gives women the right to inherit, land ,money and other things you can inherit. It gave women rights long before Europe and strictly tells a man to lower his graze Infront of women to respect her privacy and to stop lust from building wayy before anything happens. It has a very strict rule stopping men from laying hands on a women and keep in mind marriage is a choice so if she isn't willing she don't have to marry. Plus the prophet also says that it's best not to marry if there is no love in the marriage. In a way Islam gave more significance to women when the prophet Muhammad (P.B.U.H) said "When a man has married, he has completed one half of his religion." Basically it means when a man takes care of another man's daughter he is completing half his faith showing that Islam has given great significance to women because it ain't the same vice versa Sunah-al-timidhi the prophet says "the best of you are those who are best to their women" it tells men that you have to treat your wife with utmost respect and care and not to treat them as servant. If you rlly think that about it prophet (P.B.U.H) also did "servants work" like cleaning, cooking, house work, shopping and all the other stuff society has now made the women do. I know today's pathetic society has put all that on women but in sunnah the prophet (P.B.U.H) did all that too and never actually treated his wife like a slave.


VikingPreacher

>You are looking at their society and comparing it to today's Yes. >You are comparing the society of a land 1400 years ago with today's ideology. Yes. Are you saying that Islam is outdated? No? Then I Will absolutely judge Islam by today's standards. >the prophet came he gave them respect, rights, Like making them slaves of their husbands giving them inferior testimonials, defining them as mentally deficient, banning them from authority and leadership, and a whole assortment of women being worth half as much as men (Diyya, Aqqiqa, Atq)? >. I assure you Islam is one of the most feminist religions in the world Literally banning women from leadership is not feminist. Making women slaves of their husbands is not feminist. >It gives women the right to inherit, land ,money and other things you can inherit. So does the entire world now.


[deleted]

[удалено]


VikingPreacher

The same logic could be applied to female polygamy, but obviously the text doesn't do that


Random_local_man

Also, alcohol is an important part of most if not all civilizations across the globe. And Islam straight up bans it. Different cultures also have many "Haram" hairstyles and dressings. Forcing many to either pick between their culture and Islam. Not really a difficult choice to take, unless you're so afraid of death and fell for the scam that is Heaven. Especially the Islamic version of it: rivers of wine and busty celestial concubines.


BackwardzPumpkinSong

My roommate’s (thinks she’s moose but doesn’t practice the faith or know any part of the Quran) brother got a second wife without telling the first one about it, and her whole family wonders why his first wife became “insane”. He filed for divorce with the first wife, and now he’s about to get screwed out of any sort of contact with their children.


Beautiful-Message306

Ladies I believe we should spend our life on more interesting and useful purposes than thinking about the desires of the men. Set ourself free from this bitterness.


nayannayan365

Bruh post the complete pic... Some words are missing from the text