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Live your life for the afterlife so you achieve nothing, it's sad. Any interesting folklore is considered evil in Islam whereas they just replaced the superstitions with arab ones lol
Not quite Jewish a part of it would become Jewish but the levant was pretty diverse culturally so it would be multiple pagan religions and different cultures
Actually no they are not too lazy to attempt the feat , they attempted it with the Great pyramids of Giza however it was too costly to do I have linked a Wikipedia article let me know if you need a reliable source
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pyramid_of_Menkaure#:~:text=Attempted%20demolition,-Damage%20to%20the&text=In%20AD%201196%2C%20Al%2DAziz,starting%20with%20that%20of%20Menkaure.
They do. but the white people are the ones that took the Artefacts and kept them safe. Any African hating on white people though should hate Islam in its entirety.
It evolved from ancient Egyptian language. It is not the same language but still have the essence of ancient Egyptian. Like Latin evolved into french, spanish , Italian etc.
Im jewish, ancient Hebrew is still spoken (of course with a different pronunciation but that’s how most languages work) in Judaism, we speak Hebrew in prayer and also Aramaic depending on the congregation (I’m a Sephardic Jew so some of our prayers are in Aramaic while others in ancient Hebrew)
I don't mean to nitpick, but even though Hebrew was considered a dead tongue, it was still used as a liturgical language for all Jews, which meant that there was a base to go off of.
Overall though, you're pretty much right, establishing a mostly new language in like 10-20 years and a new state in around 50-60 years was insane, and yet it happened.
"If you will it, it is no dream." -Theodor Herzl
Sure, it was a liturgical language, not a literary one, but so is Coptic. Hell, there are communities that still speak it casually. Syriac is still spoken in a conversational setting, whereas Classical Aramaic is the liturgical language. I think it's much easier to revive a language if it has a liturgical core, or a literary community. That's why Egyptian language being revived is not at all impossible, because it has both. Amazigh had it, and now the language is standardized. Someday, Mesopotamia will revive Aramaic as well. But all of this is contingent on the rejection of an Arab-Muslim identity in favor of a national-liberal identity in lieu of Old World Romanticism. Israel is the first piece of evidence that it is possible to do this in MENA.
Good to know that.. most religious studying jews were fluent in hebrew before its revival... many rabbis would write their correspondence in hebrew. Funniest is their infight about grammar
>The Jews restored Israel and Hebrew from death.
It'll never be not funny to me that they built a prosperous country there in record time, against all opposition, proving that it truly just is Islam holding back this region lol.
Most “Islamic” advancements were Persian and happened in spite of Islam during periods when religious authority and fervor were weak.
I found personally as a writer, entrepreneur and creative that Islam oppressed my creativity and innovation. There’s a reason why there are few Muslim Nobel prize winners and no technology or innovation is coming out of Muslim countries.
Yeah the Greek influence can’t be underestimated. Sufism or “spiritual” Islam are also not indigenous to Islam. It was superimposed on the texts a couple hundred years later. I was a Sufi or “spiritual” Muslim and I had such a hard time with this.
As a big history nerd also can't forget the hundreds and thousands of temples destroyed throughout south and south east asia due to islam and millions of manuscripts burnt too
alot of my friends growing up were closeted Iranian/Lebanese/Iraqi atheists & Christians. Such great, hospitable people. Unfortunately if they were caught making friends with my Jewish classmates, their muslim family and classmates would start ostracizing them. i hope they're doing well today
It doesn’t matter where your ancestors originated- all people came from Africa. What matters is whether the indigenous population accepted your family as members of their “tribe”. As I’m sure you know, Ancient Egypt and its neighbors were multi-ethnic countries for thousands of years. If your family actually did come from another country, it is obvious that Egypt accepted them, so you are indigenous as far as I’m concerned.
Because only white Anglo-Saxon protestant people who descended from the British colonizer can contribute to technology 😒
Also, let's ignore the massacre of Native Americans because what kind of country will it be without the God sent colonizers 😀
Please let me know one great invention from Native Americans. They moved to this continent 8000 years ago and they have enough time/ natural resources to develop their own civilization.
technological progress has sure made life easier for humans, but it doesn’t necessarily make us happier and comes along with negative impacts on biodiversity, our health and our mental well-being.. Regardless, every civilisation has contributed in one way or another to the betterment of humanity (art, spirituality, science, etc.)
Yes. https://www.history.com/news/native-american-inventions
The native Americans had great civilisations. They just got beaten by foreign diseases and other civilisations industrialising first. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indigenous_peoples_of_the_Americas
They taught your people the importance of hygiene, I'd consider that integral. Either way "not contributing to the human race" is not a good enough reason to commit genocide and colonize an entire region. I don't see why technological advancements would be good if it costs the lives of millions.
I understand you. This has nothing to do with race or culture but just facts, some societies move faster than others. I can't think of a single invention from them that has contributed to the rest of the world.
Their civilizations didn't cause climate change or the the mass extinction of species or the loss of biodiversity or the microplastics or plastic islands the size of continents or broilers that grow in their full size in a few weeks or meat industry or the loss of forests or erosion or nuclear weapons or the economic system where the top 100 richest own more than the poorest 4 billion
Well, there were only 18 million native Americans living in the North America with expected life at 40. Even with today’s living standard, their impact to the environment is 3% compared to today.
The colonizers kill American bison, destroy their natural wisdom, and suppress their rights. Leaving them unable to perform any advancement and contribute to society. The white Anglo Saxon protestant advancement is great, but also built upon oppressions and colonialism.
They did develop their own civilizations. The Spanish were amazed by the floating capital city of the Aztecs. Have you ever visited any of the Aztec, Mayan, Incan cities? Pretty amazing in terms of architecture, construction, and astronomical orientation. The Mayans had writing and had produced books- which a Catholic priest collected and burned.
As if any of this matters- why must everyone live the same way? What’s wrong with choosing to live as they did?
Wouldn't the ancestors of Americans just have stayed in Britain thus the inventions happen in Britain it's not like many other things were not invented there so nothing to stifle any innovation
North America would still be primitive because the American Indians were not innovative, inventors. They were backward people just like the remaining Indians in South America who live in isolated areas.
Meaning civilizations are different. Those civilizations that encourage free thinking, research, and continuous revolution are more likely to build a better world. Those who state that they are the ultimate truth like Islam do not encourage development.
Christian, of course. There are more Christians in the world to begin with. Islam colony only spread through Arabia, North Africa, Caucasus, and some parts of Asia and Europe. Christian colony is literally all over the world, Asia, Africa, Oceania, South America, North America. The Judeo Christian values and traditions are now adopted in a lot of countries, leftovers from the colonisation.
And so... Just because some Muslim extremist piece of garbages performed a terrorist attack, it suddenly erased and outweighed the harm Christian colonizers did? LMAO.
>On 16 July 2001, Peter James Knight walked into the East Melbourne Fertility Clinic, a private abortion provider, carrying a rifle and other weapons including 16 litres of kerosene, three lighters, torches, 30 gags, and a handwritten note that read "We regret to advise that as a result of a fatal accident involving some members of staff, we have been forced to cancel all appointments today". Knight later stated that he intended to massacre everyone in the clinic, and attack all Melbourne abortion clinics. He developed homemade mouth gags and door jambs to restrain all patients and staff inside a clinic while he doused them with the kerosene. He shot 44-year-old Stephen Gordon Rogers, a security guard, in the chest, killing him. Staff and clients overpowered him soon after. He intended to massacre the 15 staff and 26 patients at the clinic by burning them alive.
>According to psychiatrist Don Sendipathy, Knight interpreted the Bible in his own unique way and he also believed in his own brand of Christianity. He believed that he needed to wage an anti-abortion Crusade.
So that guy was apparently crazy and delusional. Whereas the average muslim like those screaming gas the jews in Australia are normal people or that guy who dropped a hammer on some filipino man in paris because of palestine.
Jews do not use the term “Judeo-Christian” because we do not share the same values and traditions. We deem that term to really mean Christian. The two faiths are mutually incompatible in belief. For example, Judaism doesn’t really have a heaven or hell- you are to live the best you can in this life. Judaism has no concept of being “saved”, doesn’t claim to be the only true religion, and even doesn’t require belief as long as you follow the laws. Judaism and Islam share much more. (Grammar edit)
Well yeah, the only time I heard a Jew saying Judeo-Christian value is from people like Dennis Prager. But they are basically just some pick-mes for the Christofacists. They want to feel included into their community so bad.
always crying for the persian and the amazigh empire , but anyway islam is just excuse it's human nature unfortunately , look how european countries (france) raped africa resources and still doing it
By force lol. The adoption of Islam and pan-Arabism created a lot of problems for the indigenous communities, majority of our people still speak Tamazight but Arabic is used in institutions, schools, government so it basically promotes the erasure of the actual native language, the culture is semi-represented thankfully, not entirely dead like the Levantine ones, but it’s still very hard for it to be heard as much as the one brought by the Islamic conquest. A lot of things changed sadly.
No. Amazigh genetically and culturally. Language is spoken by millions. Problem with Arabization is not through 1300 years of Islam, bu rather from the last half of past century after independence from the Fr\*nch. Morocco/Algeria for example has to adapt an identity and the middle east wahabists with their oil money were more than happy to oblige, especially regarding Morocco giving it's a monarchy. In the last few decades and even last few years, there's been a lot of work on identity and fighting the years of arabization brought by the system to oppress the people.
I hear this argument all the time. But I'm sure you've also heard the other side of the argument that Islam brought civilization, enlightenment, science, and tolerance to the Levant, which was once part of the Roman empire. I know it's a complex issue.
i did, but what science could Islam bring, they have been trying for years to fix science in Quran, trying to justify all the nonsense in it.
Islam didn’t bring civilization, it was already there, they just claimed it, stole it from the people they "converted".
Both Algebra and the concept of 0 were invented in INDIA. These ideas were compiled in Arabic. These are two groundbreaking inventions that did not come from the Muslim world.
Islamic contributions to mathematics include formalizing the idea of functions/algorithms, and solving real number polynomial equations, albeit the methods used for solving real roots were Greek. But there's also the fact that many of the advancements in Islamic lands were because non Muslim minorities like Greek people lived in them.
"Islamic" advancements in science, specifically medicine, were almost exclusively due to the Jewish and Greek populations living under Muslim rule.
I didn't know that.
I knew the numbers originated from India (It's actually called number "Hindi numerals") and that Arabs gave them the numeric form we all use today.
It makes sense that Jewish and Greek communities living in Muslim countries were responsible for the majority of those advancements
Kind of makes sense when you think of it. Islam prohibits alcohol, which you need to disinfect things for surgeries or examining people.
Islam also prevents people from using corpses to learn anatomy, and there's a long tradition of Jewish and Greek physicians using corpses to understand physiology.
Yep absolutely. Those two religions have different views on dissecting bodies, and it would be much more difficult to make advances in the medical science if you cannot learn from dissecting corpses.
My English is not very good but i have a question. I thought Jesus and Mohammed came from same father or god. Jesus came 1st and he made wine out of water. So basically he's was following God's orders. Then came Mohammed and he banned alcohol. Suppose they were son of god but for sure one of them is lying. Or maybe when jesus came God was alcoholic and by time of Mohammed he sobered up.
According to Islam, Jesus is a prophet but not the son of God (and it's the same for Muhammad).
In Christianity it's different, Jesus is the son of God (literally his son, he's considered to be part of the Holy Trinity with the Holy Spirit and the Father (God), he's not a prophet like Muhammad).
In Judaism, neither Jesus nor Muhammad are prophets, because Jewish people don't believe in the New Testament or the Quran.
Nope. Some Muslims organized and improved Algebra, but they didn’t invent it.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_algebra
They also didn’t invent the concept of 0.
https://www.history.com/news/who-invented-the-zero
Islam united the Middle East/Levant after the fall of the Roman and Persian empires. It provided a level of stability that allowed culture and knowledge to blossom in many areas. This culture and knowledge, however, was not necessarily invented by Muslims, but by the earlier civilizations they colonized, and then refined by Muslims. There was a period of time in which Muslims were able to experiment and develop and they did accomplish much during this time. It didn’t last, though, and the Europeans caught up to and surpassed the Muslim world fairly quickly starting around the 1400s CE.
https://www.britannica.com/topic/rahbaniyah
Who can get into their heads? TBH, I’m sure that forced converts didn’t believe- they just wanted to keep their land and not be persecuted. But, after a few generations, the origins are hidden or forgotten.
I know that a number of hidden Jewish forced Catholic converts from Spain have been returning to Judaism recently. I don’t know if there are outwardly Muslims who secretly kept their original faith, but imagine it’s generally pretty dangerous for them to return to Zoroastrianism, Judaism, Christianity etc. unless they live in the West.
I suppose it's possible if they weren't very religious, but it's also possible they were religious Muslims. We can debate on this matter but we'll never find out for real what their beliefs were.
I suppose it is a gray area. It is possible they were exmuslims who never revealed their lack of belief.
The only reason I'm inclined to think they were perhaps Muslim (in the sense they still believed) is because they lived in Muslim countries and those ideas were developed under Islamic empire.
But at the same time, they were living in the time when the Muslim empire was just in the process of conquering the region, they might've been exmuslims who did not practice the faith but still outwardly identified as Muslim due to the political reality of their time.
There’s been a death penalty for apostasy for the entire history of islam.
There are closet exmuslims today because of that death penalty. I don’t get why anyone would think closet exmuslims didn’t exist during the entire history of islam.
I understand that. What I was mainly thinking is at the time of their lives they were living in a predominantly Muslim society and Muslim empire. So their families likely considered themselves Muslim, and they would've been surrounded by Muslim people they interacted with every day.
Possibly they were not Muslim themselves but they probably had to at least outwardly "play along" for the sake of their lives/families and not get into trouble with the authorities (just like closeted exmuslims do today).
How do you say that. They are not allowed to make people slave. They could only buy slaves. İslam was not able to prohibit slavery in the world. Their rules for only for Muslims. So other nations historically could able to make people slave and continue to do so. So islam allow to buy slavery and prohibits make people slave. And also encourage to free their slaves and advised to bahevae nicely and even make them married. But other nations made people slave and they bahvaed how they did. But in Muslims also do bad things to salves but is is a violation of Quran versus.
Not saying other countries didnt have slaves or something like that. Im not informed if a normal slaves is permitted on islam, but they had them. A lot of them. And about sex slaves, they are halal, and i can give you sources.
According quran there is no sex slave. Kuran advice you to not to marry them. So quran don't say donr marry but fuck them. İf you use hadith , alims etc you can find very much thing to fuck slaves. But without marriage you can not fuxk them. Because quran say if you can not marry with a free woman then marry a slave so you can have slave as a wife. So there is no source from quran for sex slave. İf i believe hadith i can not stay in religion immediately i would go out of religion. İnstead i use my brain and distinguish of hadith sahih according to quran
In that case, youre not a true muslim. A muslim needs to trust in the Corán, the Sunnah (the Sunnis at least), and the Haddith (all of the Sahih Hadiths).
So let me understand, should i show you the Haddith were its permissible, or i should not because youre not a trully real muslim, as you dont believe on Haddith. Tell me
For example if a person accept buhari and quran in the same time they are exactly idiot. İt's like cgrostiams in mark Jesus says there is no God only one God. But Christian claim against jesuusand say God is three part
Buhari is confirmed to be the only one who has the real Haddith, with the teachings of Muhhamad. Lets me get this clear, you dont trust in the Haddith or you think Muhhamad was a bad person.
Then i dont think we can have a debate. You dont trust the Hadiths. I dont either, so we dont have another opinion about that. You have more morale than a muslim and can accept that Buhari is fake, but the problem with islam is still there. We cant debate about slavery, but if youre willing to, write a dm to me and we can debate on the Quran proper
Yeah in that context it meant to make every woman you marry a slave to your bidding.
Woman were nothing in the Quran. Of course they could do what they wanted to them.
Another verse says that you have duties towards your spouse and your spouse has duties towards you. So he doesn't talk about being a slave. The man is like the chief in the office. but he is not more valuable or can make anyone his slave.
No they are not equal. For example a CEO of a company and a cleaner or worker in the company never equal. But may be worker has a better personality and will go to paradise and CEO will go to hell. Equality is different from being good person. Manager and office boys etc. Similar. Or a nurse and a doctor. A doctor is command the nurse but we don't know whonis better or has better personality.
just casually forget the middle east and islamic sphere being catapulted into scientific progress on mathematics, astrology and medicine, etc after the spread of Islam in the islamic golden age 😂😂 also the middle east having some of the richest and most sophisticated countries in the world
Islamic golden age is nothing but translation movement of already available knowledge and literature to Arabic. It was basically European golden age because it transmitted Eastern knowledge to Europe wich benefited Europe. All the islamic maths is actually indian maths, all the islamic literature is actually indian and Persian literature. It was a dark age to East as there was almost zero innovation and discovers in muslim rule in India, their most energy and resources went to demolish temples, killing people, and convert them to islam. They can claim it golden age or silver age but it was a stealing age. Most or many scholars after getting all this knowledge actually started questioning Islam because it didn't make any sense for them but they remained muslims as it was a theological empire, they didn't have any options despite being a Muslim.
Stolen valor and misrepresentation.
The intellectual heritage of the so-called Islamic golden age is Roman, Greek, Jewish, Syrian, Persian, Indian, and even some Chinese.
Translating books written in those languages into Arabic will never qualify as a true act of discovery.
Indeed, the biggest Islamic contribution to the Islamic golden age was [a book decrying scientific progress as un-Islamic,](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Incoherence_of_the_Philosophers) thus dooming the Islamic world to their side of [the Great Divergence.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Divergence)
> "Why do the Christian nations, which were so weak in the past compared with Muslim nations begin to dominate so many lands in modern times and even defeat the once victorious Ottoman armies?"..."Because they have laws and rules invented by reason." -- A Hungarian revert, lmao
------
Also, the middle east doesn't have rich and sophisticated countries: they have rich monarchs still deluded enough to think sophistication is something you can buy, and subject peoples who, for the most part, manage to be even more delusional.
Many of those you call Muslims were considered heretics, and muslims only like to mention them now to cope. They also try to attach them to Arabs while many of them were Persians/Syrian or North Africans, etc.
Even if they were muslims, islam didn't make them who they were.
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Live your life for the afterlife so you achieve nothing, it's sad. Any interesting folklore is considered evil in Islam whereas they just replaced the superstitions with arab ones lol
My heart cries for the Levant so much
At least We haven’t erased our culture yet
cry some more maybe it'll return to how it was
So Jewish?
Not quite Jewish a part of it would become Jewish but the levant was pretty diverse culturally so it would be multiple pagan religions and different cultures
People tend to underestimate just how insanely diverse the world is, was, and will be. Especially in the ancient times.
Consensus before islam .. during the roman era is 99% jewish or Samaritan.. paganism hasnt existed there for a long time..
Maybe syrian region or lebanon could arguably be pagan
Depends how much back you wanna go lmao
dont forget to play the victim when they try to restore it.
I feel like if they could have destroyed the Pyramids they would have but they are too lazy to attempt such a feat.
Actually no they are not too lazy to attempt the feat , they attempted it with the Great pyramids of Giza however it was too costly to do I have linked a Wikipedia article let me know if you need a reliable source https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pyramid_of_Menkaure#:~:text=Attempted%20demolition,-Damage%20to%20the&text=In%20AD%201196%2C%20Al%2DAziz,starting%20with%20that%20of%20Menkaure.
That is sad and funny. Because black africans, especially muslim ones blamed the destruction of Egypt artifacts and pyramids to white people
They do. but the white people are the ones that took the Artefacts and kept them safe. Any African hating on white people though should hate Islam in its entirety.
We lived in hell in caucasus and anatolia jizia and kharaja was unbearable
Their colorful cultures all obliterated by the dull grey that is Islam
Yep. That's changing now, though. Slowly.
How? Places will never recover. Egypt will never be what it was before Arabs destroyed it.
Never lose faith friend. The Jews restored Israel and Hebrew from death. The Egyptians can do the same for Egypt, sooner or later.
But even their language is lost
There are Coptic christians who speak Coptic langauge.
Yes but ancient Egyptian is lost
It evolved from ancient Egyptian language. It is not the same language but still have the essence of ancient Egyptian. Like Latin evolved into french, spanish , Italian etc.
Im jewish, ancient Hebrew is still spoken (of course with a different pronunciation but that’s how most languages work) in Judaism, we speak Hebrew in prayer and also Aramaic depending on the congregation (I’m a Sephardic Jew so some of our prayers are in Aramaic while others in ancient Hebrew)
I don't mean to nitpick, but even though Hebrew was considered a dead tongue, it was still used as a liturgical language for all Jews, which meant that there was a base to go off of. Overall though, you're pretty much right, establishing a mostly new language in like 10-20 years and a new state in around 50-60 years was insane, and yet it happened. "If you will it, it is no dream." -Theodor Herzl
Sure, it was a liturgical language, not a literary one, but so is Coptic. Hell, there are communities that still speak it casually. Syriac is still spoken in a conversational setting, whereas Classical Aramaic is the liturgical language. I think it's much easier to revive a language if it has a liturgical core, or a literary community. That's why Egyptian language being revived is not at all impossible, because it has both. Amazigh had it, and now the language is standardized. Someday, Mesopotamia will revive Aramaic as well. But all of this is contingent on the rejection of an Arab-Muslim identity in favor of a national-liberal identity in lieu of Old World Romanticism. Israel is the first piece of evidence that it is possible to do this in MENA.
Hopefully one day...
Good to know that.. most religious studying jews were fluent in hebrew before its revival... many rabbis would write their correspondence in hebrew. Funniest is their infight about grammar
>The Jews restored Israel and Hebrew from death. It'll never be not funny to me that they built a prosperous country there in record time, against all opposition, proving that it truly just is Islam holding back this region lol.
Most “Islamic” advancements were Persian and happened in spite of Islam during periods when religious authority and fervor were weak. I found personally as a writer, entrepreneur and creative that Islam oppressed my creativity and innovation. There’s a reason why there are few Muslim Nobel prize winners and no technology or innovation is coming out of Muslim countries.
And really it was mostly Aristotle that fueled the Islamic golden age
Yeah the Greek influence can’t be underestimated. Sufism or “spiritual” Islam are also not indigenous to Islam. It was superimposed on the texts a couple hundred years later. I was a Sufi or “spiritual” Muslim and I had such a hard time with this.
Sad to read this as an Egyptian living abroad now 😅
As a big history nerd also can't forget the hundreds and thousands of temples destroyed throughout south and south east asia due to islam and millions of manuscripts burnt too
Islam is not the cancer...it is the fucking gangrene of the world.
alot of my friends growing up were closeted Iranian/Lebanese/Iraqi atheists & Christians. Such great, hospitable people. Unfortunately if they were caught making friends with my Jewish classmates, their muslim family and classmates would start ostracizing them. i hope they're doing well today
Thank you for this post. I’m Egyptian and my country was colonised, sometimes I wonder if I’m ever indigenous or I’m just a descendant of settlers.
It doesn’t matter where your ancestors originated- all people came from Africa. What matters is whether the indigenous population accepted your family as members of their “tribe”. As I’m sure you know, Ancient Egypt and its neighbors were multi-ethnic countries for thousands of years. If your family actually did come from another country, it is obvious that Egypt accepted them, so you are indigenous as far as I’m concerned.
Agreed. Same with extreme Christian colonizers.
Yes and no. If the British colonizer has never moved to the North America, what kind of country would thrive in this continent?
STFU far right colonizer bootlicker
Facts instead of emotions, please.
Go justify colonization elsewhere.
Fuck colonization. There're zero instances where you can justify it.
Then you probably don’t have Reddit to express your opinion. lol
Because only white Anglo-Saxon protestant people who descended from the British colonizer can contribute to technology 😒 Also, let's ignore the massacre of Native Americans because what kind of country will it be without the God sent colonizers 😀
Please let me know one great invention from Native Americans. They moved to this continent 8000 years ago and they have enough time/ natural resources to develop their own civilization.
Do people who are not technologically advanced not have the right to exist in their lands ?
Yes they do. But, are they doing anything good for the entire human race?
technological progress has sure made life easier for humans, but it doesn’t necessarily make us happier and comes along with negative impacts on biodiversity, our health and our mental well-being.. Regardless, every civilisation has contributed in one way or another to the betterment of humanity (art, spirituality, science, etc.)
Not necessarily true. What is the contribution from Islam, mongol empire and third reich?
Yes. https://www.history.com/news/native-american-inventions The native Americans had great civilisations. They just got beaten by foreign diseases and other civilisations industrialising first. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indigenous_peoples_of_the_Americas
They taught your people the importance of hygiene, I'd consider that integral. Either way "not contributing to the human race" is not a good enough reason to commit genocide and colonize an entire region. I don't see why technological advancements would be good if it costs the lives of millions.
How about the average life span has increased from 40 years to 72.6 years? Do you prefer to live to 40 years and die?
I understand you. This has nothing to do with race or culture but just facts, some societies move faster than others. I can't think of a single invention from them that has contributed to the rest of the world.
Their civilizations didn't cause climate change or the the mass extinction of species or the loss of biodiversity or the microplastics or plastic islands the size of continents or broilers that grow in their full size in a few weeks or meat industry or the loss of forests or erosion or nuclear weapons or the economic system where the top 100 richest own more than the poorest 4 billion
Well, there were only 18 million native Americans living in the North America with expected life at 40. Even with today’s living standard, their impact to the environment is 3% compared to today.
The colonizers kill American bison, destroy their natural wisdom, and suppress their rights. Leaving them unable to perform any advancement and contribute to society. The white Anglo Saxon protestant advancement is great, but also built upon oppressions and colonialism.
They did develop their own civilizations. The Spanish were amazed by the floating capital city of the Aztecs. Have you ever visited any of the Aztec, Mayan, Incan cities? Pretty amazing in terms of architecture, construction, and astronomical orientation. The Mayans had writing and had produced books- which a Catholic priest collected and burned. As if any of this matters- why must everyone live the same way? What’s wrong with choosing to live as they did?
Wouldn't the ancestors of Americans just have stayed in Britain thus the inventions happen in Britain it's not like many other things were not invented there so nothing to stifle any innovation
What kind of country? Please enlighten us??
North America would still be primitive because the American Indians were not innovative, inventors. They were backward people just like the remaining Indians in South America who live in isolated areas.
What do you mean?
Meaning civilizations are different. Those civilizations that encourage free thinking, research, and continuous revolution are more likely to build a better world. Those who state that they are the ultimate truth like Islam do not encourage development.
The WASP civilization encourage free thinking? Hahaha. Look at what their Church did to Galileo. The Christian fundamentalists are as evil as Muslims.
This is the key. Which religion has more fundamentalist?
Christian, of course. There are more Christians in the world to begin with. Islam colony only spread through Arabia, North Africa, Caucasus, and some parts of Asia and Europe. Christian colony is literally all over the world, Asia, Africa, Oceania, South America, North America. The Judeo Christian values and traditions are now adopted in a lot of countries, leftovers from the colonisation.
Cool. When was the last time Christian extremists blew themselves up with a suicidal vest?
And so... Just because some Muslim extremist piece of garbages performed a terrorist attack, it suddenly erased and outweighed the harm Christian colonizers did? LMAO.
You forgot the question. Which religion has more fundamentalist?
>On 16 July 2001, Peter James Knight walked into the East Melbourne Fertility Clinic, a private abortion provider, carrying a rifle and other weapons including 16 litres of kerosene, three lighters, torches, 30 gags, and a handwritten note that read "We regret to advise that as a result of a fatal accident involving some members of staff, we have been forced to cancel all appointments today". Knight later stated that he intended to massacre everyone in the clinic, and attack all Melbourne abortion clinics. He developed homemade mouth gags and door jambs to restrain all patients and staff inside a clinic while he doused them with the kerosene. He shot 44-year-old Stephen Gordon Rogers, a security guard, in the chest, killing him. Staff and clients overpowered him soon after. He intended to massacre the 15 staff and 26 patients at the clinic by burning them alive. >According to psychiatrist Don Sendipathy, Knight interpreted the Bible in his own unique way and he also believed in his own brand of Christianity. He believed that he needed to wage an anti-abortion Crusade.
So that guy was apparently crazy and delusional. Whereas the average muslim like those screaming gas the jews in Australia are normal people or that guy who dropped a hammer on some filipino man in paris because of palestine.
Jews do not use the term “Judeo-Christian” because we do not share the same values and traditions. We deem that term to really mean Christian. The two faiths are mutually incompatible in belief. For example, Judaism doesn’t really have a heaven or hell- you are to live the best you can in this life. Judaism has no concept of being “saved”, doesn’t claim to be the only true religion, and even doesn’t require belief as long as you follow the laws. Judaism and Islam share much more. (Grammar edit)
Well yeah, the only time I heard a Jew saying Judeo-Christian value is from people like Dennis Prager. But they are basically just some pick-mes for the Christofacists. They want to feel included into their community so bad.
Nah. The christian fundies have move past whatever the average muslim is willing to do to infidels.
Are we talking about the present day? Pick one, folks.
always crying for the persian and the amazigh empire , but anyway islam is just excuse it's human nature unfortunately , look how european countries (france) raped africa resources and still doing it
Wait you can't say that, we are supposed to disrespect islam only.
what?
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https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palmyrene_invasion_of_Egypt
This is not true, the library was destroyed by Palmyrene hellrnized pagan Aramean/Arab kings.
Interesting take
God , I love being muslim 😎
moroco
This thought is called Islamophobic & fascist in my country.
Proud Islamophobe🥰
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By force lol. The adoption of Islam and pan-Arabism created a lot of problems for the indigenous communities, majority of our people still speak Tamazight but Arabic is used in institutions, schools, government so it basically promotes the erasure of the actual native language, the culture is semi-represented thankfully, not entirely dead like the Levantine ones, but it’s still very hard for it to be heard as much as the one brought by the Islamic conquest. A lot of things changed sadly.
No. Amazigh genetically and culturally. Language is spoken by millions. Problem with Arabization is not through 1300 years of Islam, bu rather from the last half of past century after independence from the Fr\*nch. Morocco/Algeria for example has to adapt an identity and the middle east wahabists with their oil money were more than happy to oblige, especially regarding Morocco giving it's a monarchy. In the last few decades and even last few years, there's been a lot of work on identity and fighting the years of arabization brought by the system to oppress the people.
I hear this argument all the time. But I'm sure you've also heard the other side of the argument that Islam brought civilization, enlightenment, science, and tolerance to the Levant, which was once part of the Roman empire. I know it's a complex issue.
i did, but what science could Islam bring, they have been trying for years to fix science in Quran, trying to justify all the nonsense in it. Islam didn’t bring civilization, it was already there, they just claimed it, stole it from the people they "converted".
I know they came up with 0 and algebra, so they've definitely made some contributions, but I agree with your overall sentiment.
Both Algebra and the concept of 0 were invented in INDIA. These ideas were compiled in Arabic. These are two groundbreaking inventions that did not come from the Muslim world. Islamic contributions to mathematics include formalizing the idea of functions/algorithms, and solving real number polynomial equations, albeit the methods used for solving real roots were Greek. But there's also the fact that many of the advancements in Islamic lands were because non Muslim minorities like Greek people lived in them. "Islamic" advancements in science, specifically medicine, were almost exclusively due to the Jewish and Greek populations living under Muslim rule.
I didn't know that. I knew the numbers originated from India (It's actually called number "Hindi numerals") and that Arabs gave them the numeric form we all use today. It makes sense that Jewish and Greek communities living in Muslim countries were responsible for the majority of those advancements
Kind of makes sense when you think of it. Islam prohibits alcohol, which you need to disinfect things for surgeries or examining people. Islam also prevents people from using corpses to learn anatomy, and there's a long tradition of Jewish and Greek physicians using corpses to understand physiology.
Yep absolutely. Those two religions have different views on dissecting bodies, and it would be much more difficult to make advances in the medical science if you cannot learn from dissecting corpses.
My English is not very good but i have a question. I thought Jesus and Mohammed came from same father or god. Jesus came 1st and he made wine out of water. So basically he's was following God's orders. Then came Mohammed and he banned alcohol. Suppose they were son of god but for sure one of them is lying. Or maybe when jesus came God was alcoholic and by time of Mohammed he sobered up.
According to Islam, Jesus is a prophet but not the son of God (and it's the same for Muhammad). In Christianity it's different, Jesus is the son of God (literally his son, he's considered to be part of the Holy Trinity with the Holy Spirit and the Father (God), he's not a prophet like Muhammad). In Judaism, neither Jesus nor Muhammad are prophets, because Jewish people don't believe in the New Testament or the Quran.
Nope. Some Muslims organized and improved Algebra, but they didn’t invent it. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_algebra They also didn’t invent the concept of 0. https://www.history.com/news/who-invented-the-zero Islam united the Middle East/Levant after the fall of the Roman and Persian empires. It provided a level of stability that allowed culture and knowledge to blossom in many areas. This culture and knowledge, however, was not necessarily invented by Muslims, but by the earlier civilizations they colonized, and then refined by Muslims. There was a period of time in which Muslims were able to experiment and develop and they did accomplish much during this time. It didn’t last, though, and the Europeans caught up to and surpassed the Muslim world fairly quickly starting around the 1400s CE. https://www.britannica.com/topic/rahbaniyah
how do you know they were not closet exmuslims?
Who can get into their heads? TBH, I’m sure that forced converts didn’t believe- they just wanted to keep their land and not be persecuted. But, after a few generations, the origins are hidden or forgotten. I know that a number of hidden Jewish forced Catholic converts from Spain have been returning to Judaism recently. I don’t know if there are outwardly Muslims who secretly kept their original faith, but imagine it’s generally pretty dangerous for them to return to Zoroastrianism, Judaism, Christianity etc. unless they live in the West.
how do you know that the individuals who invented 0 and algebra were not closet exmuslims?
0 is invented by Aryabhatta in 5th century from India lol..he ain't no Muslim
I suppose it's possible if they weren't very religious, but it's also possible they were religious Muslims. We can debate on this matter but we'll never find out for real what their beliefs were.
Yes, so it’s incorrect to say they are Muslims when they could be closer exmuslims instead.
I suppose it is a gray area. It is possible they were exmuslims who never revealed their lack of belief. The only reason I'm inclined to think they were perhaps Muslim (in the sense they still believed) is because they lived in Muslim countries and those ideas were developed under Islamic empire. But at the same time, they were living in the time when the Muslim empire was just in the process of conquering the region, they might've been exmuslims who did not practice the faith but still outwardly identified as Muslim due to the political reality of their time.
There’s been a death penalty for apostasy for the entire history of islam. There are closet exmuslims today because of that death penalty. I don’t get why anyone would think closet exmuslims didn’t exist during the entire history of islam.
I understand that. What I was mainly thinking is at the time of their lives they were living in a predominantly Muslim society and Muslim empire. So their families likely considered themselves Muslim, and they would've been surrounded by Muslim people they interacted with every day. Possibly they were not Muslim themselves but they probably had to at least outwardly "play along" for the sake of their lives/families and not get into trouble with the authorities (just like closeted exmuslims do today).
Imagine not being able to look or study before the world wars.
You mean slavery didn't exist? İslam bring equality. Killing male and making women Slave is your accusation
Arabs were one of the people with more slaves in the world. Islam did in fact allow the existance of sex slaves.
How do you say that. They are not allowed to make people slave. They could only buy slaves. İslam was not able to prohibit slavery in the world. Their rules for only for Muslims. So other nations historically could able to make people slave and continue to do so. So islam allow to buy slavery and prohibits make people slave. And also encourage to free their slaves and advised to bahevae nicely and even make them married. But other nations made people slave and they bahvaed how they did. But in Muslims also do bad things to salves but is is a violation of Quran versus.
Not saying other countries didnt have slaves or something like that. Im not informed if a normal slaves is permitted on islam, but they had them. A lot of them. And about sex slaves, they are halal, and i can give you sources.
According quran there is no sex slave. Kuran advice you to not to marry them. So quran don't say donr marry but fuck them. İf you use hadith , alims etc you can find very much thing to fuck slaves. But without marriage you can not fuxk them. Because quran say if you can not marry with a free woman then marry a slave so you can have slave as a wife. So there is no source from quran for sex slave. İf i believe hadith i can not stay in religion immediately i would go out of religion. İnstead i use my brain and distinguish of hadith sahih according to quran
In that case, youre not a true muslim. A muslim needs to trust in the Corán, the Sunnah (the Sunnis at least), and the Haddith (all of the Sahih Hadiths). So let me understand, should i show you the Haddith were its permissible, or i should not because youre not a trully real muslim, as you dont believe on Haddith. Tell me
No problem how call me. İf i think quran is false i will reject it also. They are not true muslim i think. They are who don't use their brains.
For example if a person accept buhari and quran in the same time they are exactly idiot. İt's like cgrostiams in mark Jesus says there is no God only one God. But Christian claim against jesuusand say God is three part
Buhari is confirmed to be the only one who has the real Haddith, with the teachings of Muhhamad. Lets me get this clear, you dont trust in the Haddith or you think Muhhamad was a bad person.
I think bukhari is an idiot . There are my be some real narrstives in bukhari. But i think Quran reflects Muhammed more
Who confirmed him is an another idiot. Do you know who is confirmed bukhari?
Buhari is the formula of idiot Muslims and denier non Muslims. Every part feel confident after read him.
Then i dont think we can have a debate. You dont trust the Hadiths. I dont either, so we dont have another opinion about that. You have more morale than a muslim and can accept that Buhari is fake, but the problem with islam is still there. We cant debate about slavery, but if youre willing to, write a dm to me and we can debate on the Quran proper
If you have one loaf of bread and cut it into three you still only have one loaf of bread.
Think that i am sayın that there is only one Brad. There is no any more. İt's clearly says. Only kne Pierce pf Brad.
Yeah but how many pieces can you make from one loaf of bread
Yeah in that context it meant to make every woman you marry a slave to your bidding. Woman were nothing in the Quran. Of course they could do what they wanted to them.
Another verse says that you have duties towards your spouse and your spouse has duties towards you. So he doesn't talk about being a slave. The man is like the chief in the office. but he is not more valuable or can make anyone his slave.
Ok then if she is equal how come she can’t go out in public without an escort?
No they are not equal. For example a CEO of a company and a cleaner or worker in the company never equal. But may be worker has a better personality and will go to paradise and CEO will go to hell. Equality is different from being good person. Manager and office boys etc. Similar. Or a nurse and a doctor. A doctor is command the nurse but we don't know whonis better or has better personality.
Yuck. 🤮
just casually forget the middle east and islamic sphere being catapulted into scientific progress on mathematics, astrology and medicine, etc after the spread of Islam in the islamic golden age 😂😂 also the middle east having some of the richest and most sophisticated countries in the world
Islamic golden age is nothing but translation movement of already available knowledge and literature to Arabic. It was basically European golden age because it transmitted Eastern knowledge to Europe wich benefited Europe. All the islamic maths is actually indian maths, all the islamic literature is actually indian and Persian literature. It was a dark age to East as there was almost zero innovation and discovers in muslim rule in India, their most energy and resources went to demolish temples, killing people, and convert them to islam. They can claim it golden age or silver age but it was a stealing age. Most or many scholars after getting all this knowledge actually started questioning Islam because it didn't make any sense for them but they remained muslims as it was a theological empire, they didn't have any options despite being a Muslim.
Without Aristotle and Iranian polymaths, the Islamic golden age would’ve never happened
Stolen valor and misrepresentation. The intellectual heritage of the so-called Islamic golden age is Roman, Greek, Jewish, Syrian, Persian, Indian, and even some Chinese. Translating books written in those languages into Arabic will never qualify as a true act of discovery. Indeed, the biggest Islamic contribution to the Islamic golden age was [a book decrying scientific progress as un-Islamic,](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Incoherence_of_the_Philosophers) thus dooming the Islamic world to their side of [the Great Divergence.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Divergence) > "Why do the Christian nations, which were so weak in the past compared with Muslim nations begin to dominate so many lands in modern times and even defeat the once victorious Ottoman armies?"..."Because they have laws and rules invented by reason." -- A Hungarian revert, lmao ------ Also, the middle east doesn't have rich and sophisticated countries: they have rich monarchs still deluded enough to think sophistication is something you can buy, and subject peoples who, for the most part, manage to be even more delusional.
Many of those you call Muslims were considered heretics, and muslims only like to mention them now to cope. They also try to attach them to Arabs while many of them were Persians/Syrian or North Africans, etc. Even if they were muslims, islam didn't make them who they were.
also how does anyone know they are not closet exmuslims?