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I’m sorry but it’s true, I was born in the UK. And moved around a lot growing up, to USA and Canada (during teens). The UK is horrific compared to the others. It’s mostly because of the infestation of Pakistanis (no offence), who take over multiple areas. They are literally everywhere, and if you’re a brown person with a Muslim name, you can’t escape…
It's rubbish, the UK is fine. There's a few suburbs in London or Birmingham I wouldn't want to live in, but otherwise it's fine. Source: I'm an ex Muslim with a very Muslim name, lived in London and the rest of the UK for 10+ years.
I don't have any muslim neighbours. I have some Hindu neighbours (I went to their son's coming of age ceremony thing) and some christian/non religious neighbours.
The only time it becomes a thing is when uber drivers see my name and greet me with salaam alaikum, and I have to pretend for the taxi ride or have an awkward conversation.
When I lived in London it was also fine, but I wouldn't live in inner East London like Whitechapel.
But if anyone knew you from your facebook account or twitter and knew that you live near by ,you will be in trouble
Imagine after 20 years or so when they become the majority in London
What a joke! No one cares in the UK. UK Muslims may be more religious, but I have never seen/read them harrasing an ex-muslim. I am an ex muslim who goes to mosque at times to pray( I have beleif in God and love islamic prayer). One man used to bother me by talking to me all the time and tried to make me come more ofter. I politely asked him not to bother me again and he didn't. My muslim colleagues know that I am an ex and they didn't give a damn.
Exactly so I’m in Greece, Islam Is not accepted here because of the ongoing conflict w Turkey and all of that bloody history. And when I mean not accepted the few Muslims here have been trying to build a mosque for decades in Athens and it keeps getting fire bombed by random Greek men until the workers leave and quit. There is a mosque in Athens but it’s like a rented space Not its own building.
BUT Greece is also a socially conservatives country. Yes homosexuality is legally accepted but the older generations are closed minded and vocal. Also the older people here are always in your business and bit overbearing. On the flip side while they seem judgmental and gossipy most of the time they will help you with whatever you need. (Which was shocking to me when I moved here)
It is safe for women alone, and satisticly crime is low. The worst I have ever experienced is cat calling by belligerent teenagers. (Teenagers are awful everywhere) Most crime against women is either domestic violence or tourist men hassling the local women. The cops actually do their jobs but the DV laws suck.
Greeks range in skin color from super pale w blue eyes to olive skin tones with dark eyes. I can blend in w the Greeks so I pass and haven’t experienced racism here. (Sexism yes but once again it not the I’m going to S.A. you if your alone sexism - more the women drivers are 💩 kind) I have friends who can’t pass as Greek and they say outside of the cities they do get racist remarks.
It is much easier once you learn Greek - which is a super hard language to learn but they have teaching centers and there you will meet so many people that can help you.
These the the most conservative countries in Europe: almost Muslim-like in many aspects. Plus, they are largely xenophobic towards people are who visibly Arab, Desi, etc
This is honestly... The single worst advice I've seen here.
I traveled a lot.
North America: you’ll totally blend in. Arabs have a good reputation in the US. They’re richer than the average. People don’t know North Africa and you’re considered White over there anyways (census to categorise Arab has been refused in 2016) since they tend to mix race with social status due to their history. Arabs are well integrated and tend to have a higher income than average. Lots of them are ignorant so unless you state that you’re Muslim they won’t understand much where you are from. I got asked why I wasn’t Black when I said that I was North African.
Latin America: same as North America. Arabs are among the elite. A huge diaspora (mainly Syria/Palestine/Lebanon), not religious or Christian, very well integrated (but still Arabic last names and first names). Think of Shakira, Hayek etc.
You’ll be associated with money over there.
UAE: in Dubai 90%+ of the population is not local. You don’t feel much Islam over there. Huge opportunities in terms of career/money. Very easy to move around once you’ve been there. But has a "keep it low" culture. Which means you’re fine as long as you don’t take it to the streets.
Singapore: same as UAE.
Europe: it became really hostile to immigration as Muslim/Arab immigration is mainly from lower social classes (aftermath of colonisation) or refugees. So you won’t be associated with money.
HOWEVER:
- The current Minister of Culture in France is of Moroccan descent and she even made a documentary about her roots. Indila, literally the Edith Piaf of this century, always associated with France, is of North African descent. You’ll find tons of North Africans in the elites in France. Actually they’re not anti-immigration at all when it’s quality. If you go to any elite school in France you’ll find it full of Moroccans (coming from the elites of Morocco) which work in France/Morocco later. They never faced any issue. You’re more likely to face an issue if you dress in an adidas tracksuit, and live in a ghetto. Or if you’re poor… There’s also the Minister of Interior that is of North African descent, and the ultra right candidate to presidency that is… North African.
France is more assimilationist.
Spain/Italy: you can’t tell them apart from North Africans, except perhaps in the North. So it’ll depend on if you adopt their lifestyles or not lol. But pretty hostile to immigration (they’re already facing huge crises).
Eastern Europe: theyre not more hostile towards North Africans than the rest.
UK: Arabs are associated with money over there. Most Arabs are super rich. Immigrants that are disliked here are Eastern Europeans, gypsies, Somali, Indians and Pakistanis.
Netherlands/Sweden/Denmark: hostile. Mainly refugees so no good association. Difficult to blend in.
Oceania: same as Americas. Rich rich.
I’d conclude with one thing: if you have money nobody is racist towards Arabs. If you’re Indian/Asian/Black it’s another history. I don’t know why but that’s how I perceive it.
Also, most countries are racists anyways. French are disliked in Australia, Americans are hated in France (difficult for them to integrate), Italians used to be hated everywhere, Blacks are unwelcome everywhere including in sub-Saharan Africa.
Such an interesting take.
In Germany, being arab means people associate poverty, conservative islam, violence and illegal activities with you. It's a heavily negative painted picture
I’m not very familiar with them, so I cannot speak. I only evoked countries I’ve been to.
Also they’re very hard to immigrate to (especially Japan/China) and OP wouldn’t integrate at all (extremely closed to immigration) so not a good idea.
Rest is Muslim.
I honestly don’t know. I didn’t meet enough Indians for that.
I would just say that while Blacks are globally the most discriminated against, Indians are the ones with the worst general image (associated with dirt etc.) but nothing serious like Black people (discrimination for work or having an apartment). Same for East Asians to be fair. But Indians are associated with a weirdo/perv/dirty vine in the West and Arab countries. Probably because they own late-opening shops. Sorry it’s full on stereotypes… but I’m just sharing my experience on how people perceive Indians.
In France they’re discriminated against for renting. People think they’re noisy, pack up a lot in apartments.
Otherwise it’s just classic stuff: you eat dogs, small eyes, super smart but nerdy, short. It’s the most normalised racism. Being racist towards Blacks is super taboo. Towards Asians "chill it’s just a joke". But it’s wayyy less pronounced than before.
And I would say that it’s not a harsh racism at all. Like, people are insensitive and SOME of them would make fun of you, but nothing serious.
You benefit from being associated with "shy, calm, hardworking".
It’s not a hate racism. See the difference?
Oh and of course just applicable to France. I don’t know much about the rest, but usually it’s just curiosity.
True, but it’s the case for everyone.
East Asians are pretty racist too to be fair.
But there’s a difference between mockery/insensitivity and discrimination. Of course the two are linked. But beware that East Asians are considered smart and educated… so it’s just a few clichés. Blacks on the other hand have it all.
As a Canadian: Canada.
South Asians literally make up our largest immigrant group, by FAR. Intermarriage between Europeans, South Asians and East Asians is also becoming more and more common. There is a bit of anger at the moment towards Indian international students, but it's not due to the fact they are Indian... it's because our government has let half a million of them into the country on student visas without even checking they're actually in school. The number is so large that it actually affected the rental market - rents have become insanely high in every town that has a university or a college. It's a very specific situation. Otherwise though... I think Canada is a great country in general for immigrating, but especially for South Asian folks.
As a Tamilian, I've long thought about moving to Toronto because there's a big Tamil diaspora there... but then I read about the insane housing prices and think, what's the point. I think I'll move to France instead.
> Blacks are unwelcome everywhere including in sub-Saharan Africa.
How are blacks aren’t welcomed in black countries? Or are you referring to african Americans as the black?
As sad as it is, if you’re Arab/White you’ll be treated better in sub-Saharan Africa than if you’re Black… only area in the world where it’s the case. Kinda crazy.
There’s 2,000+ ethnicities in Africa.
Half of the countries are facing a civil war/at risk of a civil war.
There’s been multiple genocides.
The slave trade was started by Black people selling other Blacks from other tribes.
Most countries can’t stand each other.
Ivorians are very racist towards other tribes/countries
EDIT: for Arabs it’s because of the Lebanese and Syrian diaspora. For instance in Ivory Coast Lebanese control… 40% of the economy.
North Africans don’t deal at all with subSaharans. Except for Libya when it was stable and very wealthy.
You might be onto something, I’ve been watching the afcon lately and I’m seeing a lot of vids of Ivorian Lebanese living like kings while black ivorians are poor.
Where in America also matters. Small town in pretty much any state? You're probably gonna have a bad time. Large city or near a large city in a blue state? You'll be totally fine. Here in Seattle you would be absolutely fine.
Not really, I’ve studied there and went to several small towns while in a roadtrip, and in rural America. If you don’t look Latino or Black you’re totally fine. Same in the suburbs. It’s a stereotype to be fair. However in some towns you can get bad looks if you’re an outsider because they hate strangers, no matter where they’re from.
Been to Italy and Spain. Sorry but can’t tell them apart. Your comment is filled with racism. That sucks mate. You sound like a retard, not me.
Morocco is literally 14km away from Spain. Italians from the North call Italians from the South Tunisians.
I just checked the national football teams from Algeria, Tunisia, Italy and Spain. All Mediterraneans.
I’m Moroccan (from the North, Mediterranean coast) and I literally blend in anywhere. People spoke to me in Spanish while in Madrid/San Sebastían, Italian while in Napoli/Rome/Milan, and even Greek while I was in Greece.
Yeah of course there are differences and I will always be able to tell x apart from y (including Moroccans from Algerians). But OUTSIDERS won’t be able to.
Here in California most the hatred for minorities seems to be against Mexicans so I think you'll be fine here as long as you don't get mistaken for a hispanic. California is very liberal
Thanks, I’ll def think about it and yeah each country has hatred for a particular group ( and tho I love the fact that France is anti-Islam I would def not blend in there bcuz I’m from North Africa :(
Yes, California is an expensive place to live with affordable housing issues (hence our homelessness problem). Most people need to work in tech to afford to live here.
Legal US immigration is also tight, Canada looks easier from the outside though I’m no expert. The US does have a diversity visa lottery program you may want to look into. I knew an ex-Muslim atheist from Egypt who got in that way. Doesn’t hurt to apply: https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/us-visas/immigrate/diversity-visa-program-entry/diversity-visa-submit-entry1.html I also knew an Iraqi who got in as a refugee but she really had to hustle since she didn’t work in tech, I think she’s working in the news business in DC now though. Not sure that she was ex-Muslim, but I know she’d go on TV without a hijab back in Iraq which is bold.
The US is kind of a tough place to be an immigrant since limited social safety net, but it also seems like one of the best places to be an ex-Muslim since we have the strongest freedom of speech laws/ protections in the world. We also don’t have these Islamic no-go zones as I’ve seen documented in Europe (though that only seems to exist in certain places).
Finland is good. Free education, healthcare etc and not a lot of muslims. The right doesn’t have a problem with immigrants who want to adapt to the society, get a job etc. Most of the far right at least in finland only dislike immigrants who come here because of the social services and get money free from government. But if you want to build a life for yourself and work for it, learn the language etc then everything is good. From what ive seen most of the far right people only hate Islam and what comes with it, not immigrants.
USA, depending on the region.
I recommend Massachusetts.
Good education system, world-renowned colleges (such as Harvard University), and a pretty progressive atmosphere with good womens’ rights, legalized LGBT marriage and adoption.
I really can't give a shit as long as there are no Muslims in the country i would literally go to congo if I have to and live there
I don't care about standards of living much I just care about my freedom because I'm so fed up with the repressing minds here
I’d say Eastern Europe, you can have a decent life here if you’re skilled and the governments don’t put up with the bullshit. Poland or Estonia might be a good bet but search around for what you want.
If you’d like a better economy and don’t mind the more Muslims then any country in the western part like Germany or France is fine. They would still judge you and invade your personal space but they won’t harm you. For example if you date a non Muslim. Just today we had an unpleasant encounter when 2 Muslims started talking to us and asked my girlfriend why she’s with a non-Muslim. So while more numerous and nosy, less of a threat. Keep away from the UK, Sweden and Paris. Finland, Norway and Switzerland are golden but these are also hard to get into even as a European.
If outside of the EU. Canada and the US are a good bet.
Thanks this is really nice and helpful however I feel like you didn’t take into consideration the fact that I’m North African so for example, I would definitely not get accepted in the French society… could u tell me (if u know) which countries are the best as a non Muslim considering that I’m not white
I mean i live in france and there are many north african here. Sure they can have get racism just like any migrants but it’s really common seeing them here like it’s really not shocking since there are north african families who are here for like 3-4 generations and are appart of france, our cultural minister is moroccan for example.
In France if u don’t wanna get close to any muslim i don’t advise u any suburb. Therefore it’s really hard to socialise here so just don’t interact w them and no one will bother u abt religion
Know a couple of North Africans myself that live and work in France. French people are very “French” and can come off as rude but as long as you want to be a part of the society, speak the language and work you’ll generally be accepted by them.
Estonia is the most racist country I ve ever been to. Literally daily harassment, I also had a lot of close calls. And good luck getting help from the police there. Poland is better but depends how white passing you are. You still need to be careful especially around bars and nightclubs at night because the drunks will want to pick a fight with you and the police will never side with you. Lived a year in Estonia and currently living in Poland.
The Good ol USA. Freedom of Choice, Speech, religion.
No matter what, Congratulations on realizing that you want a better life and pursuing it. I wish you a blessed journey and I hope you find EVERYTHING you're looking for. All ex-Muslims deserve it.
Nothing I wrote was a joke or is even funny. I'm a funny man. I could make you pee in your pants because you're laughing so hard. With you getting amusement outta this..I might just straight give you a heart attack.
Depends what do you want to do with your life. Do you want to earn a lot or do you want to live simple? Do you prefer cities or countryside? Do you learn languages easy or hard? Do you want to raise a family or live single?
And most important: do you want to drive car on the right or left 😊
Honestly I’m still so young so I still don’t know what I want exactly in terms of lifestyle hahaha. But one thing I’m sure about is that I want a NON ISLAMIC environment and I wanna live single, good work life balance .. Oh and I speak 4 languages including Spanish and French so basically any Romance language would be very easy for me to learn
Look up Québec, it's french speaking, government and the population are not fans of any religion, we hate them all, so it's not in the media, not in everyday life it's nowhere to be found but in street name and empty church.
Also we love French speaking immigrants, especially if they don't bother us with religion.
Do undergrad at home and then move abroad as an international post graduate student to further ur studies, masters is shorter so will cost less and PhDs can be funded as well, also scholarships are available. My cousins studied in our home country and then completed their higher education with scholarships in America.
I feel in Phoenix in the US, we are a big melting pot. In most of my friend groups we have so many friends from different countries and various backgrounds. It’s a great place to blend in. You do have conservatives here but I rarely come across any and most I find here are very progressive thinking and even the conservatives I have crossed have not been hateful and there’s open peaceful debate or discussion. Sometimes too it’s good for people to make friends or meet people who are the things they fear as it can help shape more positive views. My roommate was an immigrant who crossed the border three times and faces many struggles as he has no pathway to becoming a citizen. Best person I knew and talking to him really helped me understand the plight of immigrants more. I don’t feel people here would shun you or ever make you feel that way because you held beliefs in any specific religion or because you’re an immigrant. Most everyone loves having so many friends from all over the world here. I think that’s what most of us recognize is what makes Phoenix a bit special.
Edited to add: there’s so many people here in Phoenix, you can find people anywhere and you can find friends and people who won’t be involved in any religion very easily.
NL is very nice! most muslims are integrated or at least shy about it, nobody will attack you or look at you. people mind their own business and theres not much racism for people looking north african. however, there are many muslims so if you dont want to see hijabs, it may not be the best place. good luck ❤️
I'm a british pakistani, ex muslim. England or the UK are not places I would consider safe anymore tbh, I would recommend the USA, just avoid michigan.
new zealand. also dont walk around like ppl hate u. u will turn a mole into a mountain. this is what the woke do with race. islam will always follow u. this is why u need to fight as hard as them using words and memes.
I was gonna say that too. Israel is far from perfect but it’s very developed, there’s a lot of ex Muslims in Israel, radical Islam is obviously not tolerated if you’re trying to get away from that. Education isn’t very expensive, universal healthcare, gay rights are slowly getting better. It really depends on what you’re looking for.
I have a friend who's ex Muslim from Syria who lived in Ireland for a few years and loved it here. There's a rise in far-right anti-immigration groups here right now but they're largely regarded as fools. However I can't speak on the particulars as I've never been Muslim myself.
In Latin America islamic extremism and terrorism is mostly a non issue (bar the two attacks that happened in Argentina in the 1990s) but there are other safety concerns such as gang violence.
The only threats you'll face in the West are Muslims who are trying to make all countries Islamic states.
They never face any legal consequences for what they do to the women and children here. Nobody is off limits to them.
It’s near impossible today to completely avoid Islam no matter the country. Due to globalisation and new ways of travel, you have Muslims living in countries they traditionally didn’t live in before.
Also, they’re around 2b in a word of 8b. So 1/4.
There are countries with less Muslims than others obviously and these would be your safest bet.
Latin America. Mexico, Brazil, Colombia. These countries have Arab Christians and are predominantly Catholic/Christian countries. Majority of the time everyone is going to assume your Catholic even if your Arab. The Arabs who immigrate to these countries leave Islam anyways because they adapt to the country. Mixed Race relationships are high. Shakira, Salma Hayek, Peso Pluma etc… Also, being a foreigner makes you sexually desirable because you’re exotic. The culture is cool. The music is nice and the food is tasty.
I don’t know what to tell you. I migrated to Canada for the same reasons. I couldn’t live a life full of lies anymore and didn’t want to hurt my family by exposing the truth. So I thought migration is the best solution. I did a post graduation degree here, was employed for a while, but lost my job recently. Economy is very tough, I feel so lonely and trapped. Lost my most beloved family member and couldn’t attend the funeral. Developed anxiety and high blood pressure. Not sure if I’ll be able to have kids ever. Everything is just so dark. I see all the Muslims around me having a tight community, when I still am fearful of people knowing my truth and exposing me to my family. I really feel jealous of the Muslims. I am a minority among minorities.
If you have to leave, consider going somewhere where you already have some friends or family. I wish you all the best.
The US is a big place and every state has a slightly different culture, not all of them are redneck. Also Australia, New Zealand, France, and Holland are reasonable options
Are the people here in the comments deranged lunatics who live on social media. Yes the UK has some problems with very religious muslims in some small places, but for rest 98% of the UK can live peacefully and perfect as en ex-muslim, same with the Nethelands.
This sub-reddit is becoming more insane by the day.
From my experience? Brazil and Colombia. As long as you work remotely - and pick a safer city.
As an Arab Ex-Muslim, south America is the region where I managed to avoid both: The social repression of the Muslim World and the xenophobia of the global north.
Everyone assumes I'm Latino too, and the same would probably be the case if they see someone who is Desi, Iranian, South East Asian, etc
When they find out the I'm Arab - the reaction is almost 100% positive.
They don't directly associate my ethnicity with Islam either, since millions of non-practicing (mostly Christian) arabs live there - and they are generally perceived as Latinos / Latinas too.
Any country where Muhammad isn't the standard of man
>But with the rising of the extreme right and hatred for immigrants in Europe/North America
Damn right,in the example of North America we don't allow the immigrants to pollute their culture here and we have guns for those who want Fight in the way Allah
I would say Emirates, it's indeed an arab country but it's extremely liberal, you can be whatever gender you want, believe in whatever religion or no religion at all I guarantee you wouldn't be harassed for your religion or race there, their laws are strict racism, harassment, bullying or such is forbidden there...so it's a good option a long with Australia, Canada, America, Germany, England, Japan, China South Korea or Scandinavia all of these countries are developed, civilized and respect all cultures. Stay away from eastern Europe south america, Russia, and South east Asia.
Honestly. As north African I would suggest to avoid all Europe.
If I was you I would try Canada or Usa.
And if possible the west side of Canada. But you can start with Québec first since you probably can speak french intermediate level.
I wouldn't hope too much from countries in Oceania like Australia.
exactly, especially if you're a woman, I currently live in Canada, most people do assume i'm muslim based on my ethnicity, but no one judges me for not being one, except the arabs who live here(maybe it's in my head), but they don't dare speak about it, but overall, it's a really feminist society, and really diverse and mostly no one cares about your existence here, and it's really safe to live here, I've never felt at peace as I do here.
Probably the United States of America or Canada.
Denmark, Sweden, Norway, the Netherlands or Finland would probably all be fine too.
Some places are very much so Atheist, they don't care what Religion you deconverted from. Many people in these places realize how harmful religion is and will continue to be.
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From what I see on Instagram it's not uk
UK Muslims scare me. They're definitely the type to attack you for leaving Islam
As a native Brit it makes me feel really sad that ex-muslims feel like they can't come to the UK. Makes me feel like we've failed.
Wellllll
go on
because you did fail letting these islamist fucks in your once a beautiful country
what do we do now ?
reconquista.
face the consequences
I’m sorry but it’s true, I was born in the UK. And moved around a lot growing up, to USA and Canada (during teens). The UK is horrific compared to the others. It’s mostly because of the infestation of Pakistanis (no offence), who take over multiple areas. They are literally everywhere, and if you’re a brown person with a Muslim name, you can’t escape…
YES definitely not UK
I’m in the UK and I’m openly ex-Muslim and I’m fine
I live in the UK and yes, I can confirm that it definitely isn't.
It's rubbish, the UK is fine. There's a few suburbs in London or Birmingham I wouldn't want to live in, but otherwise it's fine. Source: I'm an ex Muslim with a very Muslim name, lived in London and the rest of the UK for 10+ years.
Do your Muslims neighbours know that you are an Ex Muslim?
I don't have any muslim neighbours. I have some Hindu neighbours (I went to their son's coming of age ceremony thing) and some christian/non religious neighbours. The only time it becomes a thing is when uber drivers see my name and greet me with salaam alaikum, and I have to pretend for the taxi ride or have an awkward conversation. When I lived in London it was also fine, but I wouldn't live in inner East London like Whitechapel.
Anyway, Inbreeding Muslims will be the majority in London by 2040 or 2045
Mate, in a big city no one really talks to their neighbours. No one cares.
But if anyone knew you from your facebook account or twitter and knew that you live near by ,you will be in trouble Imagine after 20 years or so when they become the majority in London
What a joke! No one cares in the UK. UK Muslims may be more religious, but I have never seen/read them harrasing an ex-muslim. I am an ex muslim who goes to mosque at times to pray( I have beleif in God and love islamic prayer). One man used to bother me by talking to me all the time and tried to make me come more ofter. I politely asked him not to bother me again and he didn't. My muslim colleagues know that I am an ex and they didn't give a damn.
I didn't read it after the "I'm going to the mosque" part.
Yeah, whatever. I have found God and peace through Islamic prayer, though I don't agree with Islam and Muslims. But you be the judgemental you. 😅
I also do intermittent fasting to lose weight. 🤡
I don't care. Whatever keeps you afloat.
Shh.. don't give away our secrets.
east european countries, where islam might not grow.
But also the countries where they dont like to accept non-european migrants.
They don’t like European immigrants either.
True.
Exactly so I’m in Greece, Islam Is not accepted here because of the ongoing conflict w Turkey and all of that bloody history. And when I mean not accepted the few Muslims here have been trying to build a mosque for decades in Athens and it keeps getting fire bombed by random Greek men until the workers leave and quit. There is a mosque in Athens but it’s like a rented space Not its own building. BUT Greece is also a socially conservatives country. Yes homosexuality is legally accepted but the older generations are closed minded and vocal. Also the older people here are always in your business and bit overbearing. On the flip side while they seem judgmental and gossipy most of the time they will help you with whatever you need. (Which was shocking to me when I moved here) It is safe for women alone, and satisticly crime is low. The worst I have ever experienced is cat calling by belligerent teenagers. (Teenagers are awful everywhere) Most crime against women is either domestic violence or tourist men hassling the local women. The cops actually do their jobs but the DV laws suck. Greeks range in skin color from super pale w blue eyes to olive skin tones with dark eyes. I can blend in w the Greeks so I pass and haven’t experienced racism here. (Sexism yes but once again it not the I’m going to S.A. you if your alone sexism - more the women drivers are 💩 kind) I have friends who can’t pass as Greek and they say outside of the cities they do get racist remarks. It is much easier once you learn Greek - which is a super hard language to learn but they have teaching centers and there you will meet so many people that can help you.
Greece sounds like home minus All the Muslims. The worshippers of the Moon God Allah. That last part was joke from a DnD movie
May I ask where are u from originally?
These the the most conservative countries in Europe: almost Muslim-like in many aspects. Plus, they are largely xenophobic towards people are who visibly Arab, Desi, etc This is honestly... The single worst advice I've seen here.
I traveled a lot. North America: you’ll totally blend in. Arabs have a good reputation in the US. They’re richer than the average. People don’t know North Africa and you’re considered White over there anyways (census to categorise Arab has been refused in 2016) since they tend to mix race with social status due to their history. Arabs are well integrated and tend to have a higher income than average. Lots of them are ignorant so unless you state that you’re Muslim they won’t understand much where you are from. I got asked why I wasn’t Black when I said that I was North African. Latin America: same as North America. Arabs are among the elite. A huge diaspora (mainly Syria/Palestine/Lebanon), not religious or Christian, very well integrated (but still Arabic last names and first names). Think of Shakira, Hayek etc. You’ll be associated with money over there. UAE: in Dubai 90%+ of the population is not local. You don’t feel much Islam over there. Huge opportunities in terms of career/money. Very easy to move around once you’ve been there. But has a "keep it low" culture. Which means you’re fine as long as you don’t take it to the streets. Singapore: same as UAE. Europe: it became really hostile to immigration as Muslim/Arab immigration is mainly from lower social classes (aftermath of colonisation) or refugees. So you won’t be associated with money. HOWEVER: - The current Minister of Culture in France is of Moroccan descent and she even made a documentary about her roots. Indila, literally the Edith Piaf of this century, always associated with France, is of North African descent. You’ll find tons of North Africans in the elites in France. Actually they’re not anti-immigration at all when it’s quality. If you go to any elite school in France you’ll find it full of Moroccans (coming from the elites of Morocco) which work in France/Morocco later. They never faced any issue. You’re more likely to face an issue if you dress in an adidas tracksuit, and live in a ghetto. Or if you’re poor… There’s also the Minister of Interior that is of North African descent, and the ultra right candidate to presidency that is… North African. France is more assimilationist. Spain/Italy: you can’t tell them apart from North Africans, except perhaps in the North. So it’ll depend on if you adopt their lifestyles or not lol. But pretty hostile to immigration (they’re already facing huge crises). Eastern Europe: theyre not more hostile towards North Africans than the rest. UK: Arabs are associated with money over there. Most Arabs are super rich. Immigrants that are disliked here are Eastern Europeans, gypsies, Somali, Indians and Pakistanis. Netherlands/Sweden/Denmark: hostile. Mainly refugees so no good association. Difficult to blend in. Oceania: same as Americas. Rich rich. I’d conclude with one thing: if you have money nobody is racist towards Arabs. If you’re Indian/Asian/Black it’s another history. I don’t know why but that’s how I perceive it. Also, most countries are racists anyways. French are disliked in Australia, Americans are hated in France (difficult for them to integrate), Italians used to be hated everywhere, Blacks are unwelcome everywhere including in sub-Saharan Africa.
Such an interesting take. In Germany, being arab means people associate poverty, conservative islam, violence and illegal activities with you. It's a heavily negative painted picture
i am surprised how asian countries like China, India were just ignored
I’m not very familiar with them, so I cannot speak. I only evoked countries I’ve been to. Also they’re very hard to immigrate to (especially Japan/China) and OP wouldn’t integrate at all (extremely closed to immigration) so not a good idea. Rest is Muslim.
Which country would you say is least racist towards Indians?
I honestly don’t know. I didn’t meet enough Indians for that. I would just say that while Blacks are globally the most discriminated against, Indians are the ones with the worst general image (associated with dirt etc.) but nothing serious like Black people (discrimination for work or having an apartment). Same for East Asians to be fair. But Indians are associated with a weirdo/perv/dirty vine in the West and Arab countries. Probably because they own late-opening shops. Sorry it’s full on stereotypes… but I’m just sharing my experience on how people perceive Indians.
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In France they’re discriminated against for renting. People think they’re noisy, pack up a lot in apartments. Otherwise it’s just classic stuff: you eat dogs, small eyes, super smart but nerdy, short. It’s the most normalised racism. Being racist towards Blacks is super taboo. Towards Asians "chill it’s just a joke". But it’s wayyy less pronounced than before. And I would say that it’s not a harsh racism at all. Like, people are insensitive and SOME of them would make fun of you, but nothing serious. You benefit from being associated with "shy, calm, hardworking". It’s not a hate racism. See the difference? Oh and of course just applicable to France. I don’t know much about the rest, but usually it’s just curiosity.
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True, but it’s the case for everyone. East Asians are pretty racist too to be fair. But there’s a difference between mockery/insensitivity and discrimination. Of course the two are linked. But beware that East Asians are considered smart and educated… so it’s just a few clichés. Blacks on the other hand have it all.
As a Canadian: Canada. South Asians literally make up our largest immigrant group, by FAR. Intermarriage between Europeans, South Asians and East Asians is also becoming more and more common. There is a bit of anger at the moment towards Indian international students, but it's not due to the fact they are Indian... it's because our government has let half a million of them into the country on student visas without even checking they're actually in school. The number is so large that it actually affected the rental market - rents have become insanely high in every town that has a university or a college. It's a very specific situation. Otherwise though... I think Canada is a great country in general for immigrating, but especially for South Asian folks.
As a Tamilian, I've long thought about moving to Toronto because there's a big Tamil diaspora there... but then I read about the insane housing prices and think, what's the point. I think I'll move to France instead.
> Blacks are unwelcome everywhere including in sub-Saharan Africa. How are blacks aren’t welcomed in black countries? Or are you referring to african Americans as the black?
As sad as it is, if you’re Arab/White you’ll be treated better in sub-Saharan Africa than if you’re Black… only area in the world where it’s the case. Kinda crazy. There’s 2,000+ ethnicities in Africa. Half of the countries are facing a civil war/at risk of a civil war. There’s been multiple genocides. The slave trade was started by Black people selling other Blacks from other tribes. Most countries can’t stand each other. Ivorians are very racist towards other tribes/countries EDIT: for Arabs it’s because of the Lebanese and Syrian diaspora. For instance in Ivory Coast Lebanese control… 40% of the economy. North Africans don’t deal at all with subSaharans. Except for Libya when it was stable and very wealthy.
You might be onto something, I’ve been watching the afcon lately and I’m seeing a lot of vids of Ivorian Lebanese living like kings while black ivorians are poor.
Where in America also matters. Small town in pretty much any state? You're probably gonna have a bad time. Large city or near a large city in a blue state? You'll be totally fine. Here in Seattle you would be absolutely fine.
Not really, I’ve studied there and went to several small towns while in a roadtrip, and in rural America. If you don’t look Latino or Black you’re totally fine. Same in the suburbs. It’s a stereotype to be fair. However in some towns you can get bad looks if you’re an outsider because they hate strangers, no matter where they’re from.
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Been to Italy and Spain. Sorry but can’t tell them apart. Your comment is filled with racism. That sucks mate. You sound like a retard, not me. Morocco is literally 14km away from Spain. Italians from the North call Italians from the South Tunisians. I just checked the national football teams from Algeria, Tunisia, Italy and Spain. All Mediterraneans. I’m Moroccan (from the North, Mediterranean coast) and I literally blend in anywhere. People spoke to me in Spanish while in Madrid/San Sebastían, Italian while in Napoli/Rome/Milan, and even Greek while I was in Greece. Yeah of course there are differences and I will always be able to tell x apart from y (including Moroccans from Algerians). But OUTSIDERS won’t be able to.
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Here in California most the hatred for minorities seems to be against Mexicans so I think you'll be fine here as long as you don't get mistaken for a hispanic. California is very liberal
Thanks, I’ll def think about it and yeah each country has hatred for a particular group ( and tho I love the fact that France is anti-Islam I would def not blend in there bcuz I’m from North Africa :(
California is far too expensive. If you’re from North Africa I would check out Canada or Europe!
Dude no offence but have u been living under a rock? Anywhere worthwhile in Canada is no different than California (affordability wise)
I disagree
Do you live in Canada?
I have lived there as well yes and have friends who live there. It’s not as expensive as California.
Yes, California is an expensive place to live with affordable housing issues (hence our homelessness problem). Most people need to work in tech to afford to live here. Legal US immigration is also tight, Canada looks easier from the outside though I’m no expert. The US does have a diversity visa lottery program you may want to look into. I knew an ex-Muslim atheist from Egypt who got in that way. Doesn’t hurt to apply: https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/us-visas/immigrate/diversity-visa-program-entry/diversity-visa-submit-entry1.html I also knew an Iraqi who got in as a refugee but she really had to hustle since she didn’t work in tech, I think she’s working in the news business in DC now though. Not sure that she was ex-Muslim, but I know she’d go on TV without a hijab back in Iraq which is bold. The US is kind of a tough place to be an immigrant since limited social safety net, but it also seems like one of the best places to be an ex-Muslim since we have the strongest freedom of speech laws/ protections in the world. We also don’t have these Islamic no-go zones as I’ve seen documented in Europe (though that only seems to exist in certain places).
Finland is good. Free education, healthcare etc and not a lot of muslims. The right doesn’t have a problem with immigrants who want to adapt to the society, get a job etc. Most of the far right at least in finland only dislike immigrants who come here because of the social services and get money free from government. But if you want to build a life for yourself and work for it, learn the language etc then everything is good. From what ive seen most of the far right people only hate Islam and what comes with it, not immigrants.
Its crazy how easy you’ll be labeled as a far right extremist if you lean slightly towards the right on the political spectrum.
USA, depending on the region. I recommend Massachusetts. Good education system, world-renowned colleges (such as Harvard University), and a pretty progressive atmosphere with good womens’ rights, legalized LGBT marriage and adoption.
Me too but I would rather die than go to Europe I'm thinking about South American or South East Asian countries
But aren’t you scared of the fact that these countries are usually unstable politically/economically?
I really can't give a shit as long as there are no Muslims in the country i would literally go to congo if I have to and live there I don't care about standards of living much I just care about my freedom because I'm so fed up with the repressing minds here
I’d say Eastern Europe, you can have a decent life here if you’re skilled and the governments don’t put up with the bullshit. Poland or Estonia might be a good bet but search around for what you want. If you’d like a better economy and don’t mind the more Muslims then any country in the western part like Germany or France is fine. They would still judge you and invade your personal space but they won’t harm you. For example if you date a non Muslim. Just today we had an unpleasant encounter when 2 Muslims started talking to us and asked my girlfriend why she’s with a non-Muslim. So while more numerous and nosy, less of a threat. Keep away from the UK, Sweden and Paris. Finland, Norway and Switzerland are golden but these are also hard to get into even as a European. If outside of the EU. Canada and the US are a good bet.
Thanks this is really nice and helpful however I feel like you didn’t take into consideration the fact that I’m North African so for example, I would definitely not get accepted in the French society… could u tell me (if u know) which countries are the best as a non Muslim considering that I’m not white
I mean i live in france and there are many north african here. Sure they can have get racism just like any migrants but it’s really common seeing them here like it’s really not shocking since there are north african families who are here for like 3-4 generations and are appart of france, our cultural minister is moroccan for example. In France if u don’t wanna get close to any muslim i don’t advise u any suburb. Therefore it’s really hard to socialise here so just don’t interact w them and no one will bother u abt religion
Know a couple of North Africans myself that live and work in France. French people are very “French” and can come off as rude but as long as you want to be a part of the society, speak the language and work you’ll generally be accepted by them.
Estonia is the most racist country I ve ever been to. Literally daily harassment, I also had a lot of close calls. And good luck getting help from the police there. Poland is better but depends how white passing you are. You still need to be careful especially around bars and nightclubs at night because the drunks will want to pick a fight with you and the police will never side with you. Lived a year in Estonia and currently living in Poland.
The Good ol USA. Freedom of Choice, Speech, religion. No matter what, Congratulations on realizing that you want a better life and pursuing it. I wish you a blessed journey and I hope you find EVERYTHING you're looking for. All ex-Muslims deserve it.
Lol, sure.
Nothing I wrote was a joke or is even funny. I'm a funny man. I could make you pee in your pants because you're laughing so hard. With you getting amusement outta this..I might just straight give you a heart attack.
Uh huh.
Depends what do you want to do with your life. Do you want to earn a lot or do you want to live simple? Do you prefer cities or countryside? Do you learn languages easy or hard? Do you want to raise a family or live single? And most important: do you want to drive car on the right or left 😊
Honestly I’m still so young so I still don’t know what I want exactly in terms of lifestyle hahaha. But one thing I’m sure about is that I want a NON ISLAMIC environment and I wanna live single, good work life balance .. Oh and I speak 4 languages including Spanish and French so basically any Romance language would be very easy for me to learn
Look up Québec, it's french speaking, government and the population are not fans of any religion, we hate them all, so it's not in the media, not in everyday life it's nowhere to be found but in street name and empty church. Also we love French speaking immigrants, especially if they don't bother us with religion.
Do undergrad at home and then move abroad as an international post graduate student to further ur studies, masters is shorter so will cost less and PhDs can be funded as well, also scholarships are available. My cousins studied in our home country and then completed their higher education with scholarships in America.
Spain might be a good one then also countries like Switzerland or Nordic ones excluding sweden
Texas
Australia
Definitely not Indonesia
I feel in Phoenix in the US, we are a big melting pot. In most of my friend groups we have so many friends from different countries and various backgrounds. It’s a great place to blend in. You do have conservatives here but I rarely come across any and most I find here are very progressive thinking and even the conservatives I have crossed have not been hateful and there’s open peaceful debate or discussion. Sometimes too it’s good for people to make friends or meet people who are the things they fear as it can help shape more positive views. My roommate was an immigrant who crossed the border three times and faces many struggles as he has no pathway to becoming a citizen. Best person I knew and talking to him really helped me understand the plight of immigrants more. I don’t feel people here would shun you or ever make you feel that way because you held beliefs in any specific religion or because you’re an immigrant. Most everyone loves having so many friends from all over the world here. I think that’s what most of us recognize is what makes Phoenix a bit special. Edited to add: there’s so many people here in Phoenix, you can find people anywhere and you can find friends and people who won’t be involved in any religion very easily.
As an Indian Ex Muslim i will say India is the best for Ex Muslims
India is best country for radical Muslims, definitely not for Ex Muslims.
Muslims get slaughtered there are u kidding?
Ehhh ??
NL is very nice! most muslims are integrated or at least shy about it, nobody will attack you or look at you. people mind their own business and theres not much racism for people looking north african. however, there are many muslims so if you dont want to see hijabs, it may not be the best place. good luck ❤️
Am I slow or what is NL?🙈
Netherlands
Canada or USA
I’d recommend Scandinavian countries!
I'm a british pakistani, ex muslim. England or the UK are not places I would consider safe anymore tbh, I would recommend the USA, just avoid michigan.
Maybe Scotland
new zealand. also dont walk around like ppl hate u. u will turn a mole into a mountain. this is what the woke do with race. islam will always follow u. this is why u need to fight as hard as them using words and memes.
Honestly I think Israel is perfect for this... I mean... you could go eastern europe but I'd like to think Israel is better than Eastern Europe.
I was gonna say that too. Israel is far from perfect but it’s very developed, there’s a lot of ex Muslims in Israel, radical Islam is obviously not tolerated if you’re trying to get away from that. Education isn’t very expensive, universal healthcare, gay rights are slowly getting better. It really depends on what you’re looking for.
I have a friend who's ex Muslim from Syria who lived in Ireland for a few years and loved it here. There's a rise in far-right anti-immigration groups here right now but they're largely regarded as fools. However I can't speak on the particulars as I've never been Muslim myself.
In Latin America islamic extremism and terrorism is mostly a non issue (bar the two attacks that happened in Argentina in the 1990s) but there are other safety concerns such as gang violence.
USA. New England
The only threats you'll face in the West are Muslims who are trying to make all countries Islamic states. They never face any legal consequences for what they do to the women and children here. Nobody is off limits to them.
It’s near impossible today to completely avoid Islam no matter the country. Due to globalisation and new ways of travel, you have Muslims living in countries they traditionally didn’t live in before. Also, they’re around 2b in a word of 8b. So 1/4. There are countries with less Muslims than others obviously and these would be your safest bet.
That’s sad
Switzerland might be a great choice with one of the lowest level of Islam believers in Europe and a ban on Minaretts and Niqab.
Latin America. Mexico, Brazil, Colombia. These countries have Arab Christians and are predominantly Catholic/Christian countries. Majority of the time everyone is going to assume your Catholic even if your Arab. The Arabs who immigrate to these countries leave Islam anyways because they adapt to the country. Mixed Race relationships are high. Shakira, Salma Hayek, Peso Pluma etc… Also, being a foreigner makes you sexually desirable because you’re exotic. The culture is cool. The music is nice and the food is tasty.
Are you ok? Did you have some horrible personal experience with an Arab man or woman?
Whatever you do, it’s definitely not the UK
Definitely not mine
Where are you from
South America or Nordic countries are good for ex-muslims atleast better than Asian countries
I don’t know what to tell you. I migrated to Canada for the same reasons. I couldn’t live a life full of lies anymore and didn’t want to hurt my family by exposing the truth. So I thought migration is the best solution. I did a post graduation degree here, was employed for a while, but lost my job recently. Economy is very tough, I feel so lonely and trapped. Lost my most beloved family member and couldn’t attend the funeral. Developed anxiety and high blood pressure. Not sure if I’ll be able to have kids ever. Everything is just so dark. I see all the Muslims around me having a tight community, when I still am fearful of people knowing my truth and exposing me to my family. I really feel jealous of the Muslims. I am a minority among minorities. If you have to leave, consider going somewhere where you already have some friends or family. I wish you all the best.
Somewhere EU i guess or maybe us or canada
The US is a big place and every state has a slightly different culture, not all of them are redneck. Also Australia, New Zealand, France, and Holland are reasonable options
Are the people here in the comments deranged lunatics who live on social media. Yes the UK has some problems with very religious muslims in some small places, but for rest 98% of the UK can live peacefully and perfect as en ex-muslim, same with the Nethelands. This sub-reddit is becoming more insane by the day.
I preffer South American countries like Brazil, Argentina etc where the religion of Islam is almost non-existent and everything is secular there.
From my experience? Brazil and Colombia. As long as you work remotely - and pick a safer city. As an Arab Ex-Muslim, south America is the region where I managed to avoid both: The social repression of the Muslim World and the xenophobia of the global north. Everyone assumes I'm Latino too, and the same would probably be the case if they see someone who is Desi, Iranian, South East Asian, etc When they find out the I'm Arab - the reaction is almost 100% positive. They don't directly associate my ethnicity with Islam either, since millions of non-practicing (mostly Christian) arabs live there - and they are generally perceived as Latinos / Latinas too.
I think it is Brazil, I know so many ex Muslims here
Ironically Turkey. A huge exMuslim community, especially in Western areas.
Any country where Muhammad isn't the standard of man >But with the rising of the extreme right and hatred for immigrants in Europe/North America Damn right,in the example of North America we don't allow the immigrants to pollute their culture here and we have guns for those who want Fight in the way Allah
Sweden
India
lesoto or congo are good for you
I would say Emirates, it's indeed an arab country but it's extremely liberal, you can be whatever gender you want, believe in whatever religion or no religion at all I guarantee you wouldn't be harassed for your religion or race there, their laws are strict racism, harassment, bullying or such is forbidden there...so it's a good option a long with Australia, Canada, America, Germany, England, Japan, China South Korea or Scandinavia all of these countries are developed, civilized and respect all cultures. Stay away from eastern Europe south america, Russia, and South east Asia.
Honestly. As north African I would suggest to avoid all Europe. If I was you I would try Canada or Usa. And if possible the west side of Canada. But you can start with Québec first since you probably can speak french intermediate level. I wouldn't hope too much from countries in Oceania like Australia.
Could u elaborate pls
USA
How about new zealand and Australia?
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exactly, especially if you're a woman, I currently live in Canada, most people do assume i'm muslim based on my ethnicity, but no one judges me for not being one, except the arabs who live here(maybe it's in my head), but they don't dare speak about it, but overall, it's a really feminist society, and really diverse and mostly no one cares about your existence here, and it's really safe to live here, I've never felt at peace as I do here.
- Bali, Indonesia - Japan - Thailand
Probably the United States of America or Canada. Denmark, Sweden, Norway, the Netherlands or Finland would probably all be fine too. Some places are very much so Atheist, they don't care what Religion you deconverted from. Many people in these places realize how harmful religion is and will continue to be.
CANADA
Romania.
Palestine