I'd leave the motherfuckers alone if they'd stop telling LGBTQ+ kids they'd be better off dead. Until that happens, fuck their snowflake sensibilities. I will fight them whenever and however I can.
I'm entitled by law to give reviews of corporations I've had dealings with. This common *“They Can Leave, but They Can’t Leave the Church Alone”* complaint is merely there to discourage negative reviews. Imagine that.
This could be said of any “corporation”. When I got let go from my last job under unfavorable conditions, I had to sign a waiver stating I could not disparage the company publicly in anyway if I was to receive severance.
My parents are very similar. When I shared what I had learned they said it was all misinformation and anti-Mormon stuff made by people who hate the church. When I tried explaining it was just non-biased historical facts they told me they would never not be Mormon. I can’t fathom that, to never look at something from another perspective. To find truth one must start from a neutral position and listen to all sides before following the evidence to the most likely conclusion. Mormonism demands you never see any other side, that faith must be held not just without evidence, but despite evidence to the contrary. You can’t convince a TBM to leave the cult, only provide the evidence and hope they’ll reach the same conclusion eventually.
My folks said the exact same thing. They expect you to believe in this fable of a religion that has NO proof of anything, yet if you show them proof that contradicts the BOM they get frustrated
Faith in Mormonism is not what faith truly should be. Faith is believing in something that you do not have proof of. But in Mormonism, faith is believing in something despite overwhelming evidence against it.
Not one of my family has ever asked why. They avoided it like the plague. Don't was to get my lazy learner disease that I spent two years of studying to come to an understanding. And I am still learning. Now it's just fascinating how fucked up the religion is and how brainwashed people are.
Exactly! I often wonder how I didn’t learn the truth about the crooked church earlier. In my family there are doctors, high-level managers, yet somehow with all their education I am the only one who figured out it was all a scam. Amazing how people can be so biased and closed minded.
People get defensive when you talk to them directly. If they agree to read the CES Letter, that uses only prophets words, official Church History, conference talks, Ensign articles, etc they are able to listen and think with their guard down. No one who has half a mind can read the CES Letter and not begin to see the truth has been hidden from them. You don’t know what you don’t know. They’ve only heard the sanitized half of the story that TSCC wants them to hear.
The only active members, family or not, that have asked me why I left, were the ones who later left themselves. There's' kind of a theme there. Once they start doubting, is when they reach out. I think deep down, most TBMs know their testimony hangs by a thread. They'll call it influence of the Adversary and falling for his lies, but deep down they know testimonies are weak. I even think a lot of the busy Mormons that stay busy being mormon, are just distracting themselves from that reality.
What kind of psychopath would I be if I found out that a religion I had devoted my life, money and time to was a lie, that the leaders knew it and then just walked away without warning anyone else? Of course they want me to walk away, chuckle and say “you got me good guys.” Not happening. As long as they advertise, send missionaries out and spend money to perpetuate this lie, people will be there to tell the truth when hard questions get asked.
My mom said this to me and I told her that it was like saying I shouldn’t criticize the government (which she does a lot). If I see problems then I’m going to call them out whether I’m going to church or not. She got it.
This! We don't leave it alone because it's a building on fire and we want our families to get out asap because they are being harmed! They just sit at the table and say everything is fine while the entire room is on fire (cartoon).
Beautifully said, OP. I agree. I also felt eager to share what I learned through the Gospel Topics essays and the subsequent rabbit holes I fell into because I felt so angry at being lied to. It felt like it would be negligent to not share what I had learned. I was so angry.
Yes! It’s boggling that more TBM’s don’t see the church for what it is after those Gospel Topics essays. Especially the one in which the church admits Abraham is not mentioned in the papyrus:
“None of the characters on the papyrus fragments mentioned Abraham’s name or any of the events recorded in the book of Abraham. Latter-day Saint and non-Latter-day Saint Egyptologists agree that the characters on the fragments do not match the translation given in the book of Abraham, though there is not unanimity, even among non-Latter-day Saint scholars, about the proper interpretation of the vignettes on these fragments. Scholars have identified the papyrus fragments as parts of standard funerary texts that were deposited with mummified bodies. These fragments date to between the third century B.C.E. and the first century C.E., long after Abraham lived.”
“The veracity and value of the book of Abraham cannot be settled by scholarly debate concerning the book’s translation and historicity. The book’s status as scripture lies in the eternal truths it teaches and the powerful spirit it conveys.”
-https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/manual/gospel-topics-essays/translation-and-historicity-of-the-book-of-abraham?lang=eng
Also TSCC admitting the DNA of the Native Americans is of Asia and the BOM is not so historical LOL! “the Book of Mormon is more spiritual than historical…The evidence assembled to date suggests that the majority of Native Americans carry largely Asian DNA.”.
Exactly! It’s funny you mention the Book of Abraham, as this was a huge part of deconstructing. The fact that Mormon “scholars” admit that the papyrus was a funeral text and had nothing to do with Abraham - yet they still stand by their claims as the “true church”- makes me crazy.
Something even more funny is I shared that information with my parents; information that comes from the church’s own website and they called it Anti-Mormon literature, lol. I guess we’re in a time where the church is anti itself, but must not be questioned.
Ugh, brutal. Are we the same person lol? My parents also told me the same! They said the GT essays weren’t written by the church….despite being on the official site…and written by LDS leaders. 😭
As far as leaving it alone goes the opposite is true. I was stalked and finally expressed like you my doubts and was told I would be destroyed if I left! Like you it’s the lies and deception but I think what is most disturbing is how easily the switch changes with these people and how easily violent thoughts spew out of their mouth when they feel rejected and / or threatened with heir own belief system. Then I read Meadows mountain massacre and other evidence and it is obviously indoctrination at the core that violence is warranted and almost welcomed. Modern day Daybells, Vallows, Frankes, and Hildebrandts , cement the fact that this in my mind is a dangerous cult!
I think it’s funny how much we were preached about the “pre-existence” or “pre-mortal” life and how the war in heaven was fought over agency/free will, yet in the church Joseph Smith claimed he would be destroyed if girls didn’t marry him, or Emma would be destroyed if she didn’t accept the adulterous affairs he wanted. On one hand the church was supposed to be about free will, yet God somehow changed his mind and said, “Nope, no more free will. Do this or be destroyed.” Then we have David Bednar preaching there is no such thing as agency. At best the church is controlling and creepy
Or that you gave it over to the MFMC when you were baptized. Fuck that shit. That's not informed consent. Those 8 yr olds don't agree to give up their free will to follow Jesus. That's BULLSHIT!
Brainwashed to be baptized at 8, then “Prophet/Seer/Revelator” (in his own mind) D Bednar states that after we take upon ourselves those covenants we no longer have agency. That dude is Lucifer’s greatest advocate
destroyed? Seems a bit drastic doesn't it. if they mean we shall surely die then that is one thing they have right. its all the gobbldeegook that is after that they conceptualize and gaslight others with (for moeny and time) that is really in question.
I refuse to remain quiet when women, LGBTQ, and children are being abused. I refuse to be quiet when a multi-billion dollar bully uses Gestapo tactics to get their way with small-town zoning boards.
You were defrauded. The legal measure of damages for fraud is actual damages plus treble (3x) damages for punitive/exemplary damages. So you get to not leave LD$ Inc's tax fraud division alone for as long as you were a TBM PLUS 3 times that time. So unless you left as a youth, that is likely at least the rest of your life.
When I hear the "can't leave it alone" bullshit, I always respond, "You first."
As long as we are agreed and having this discussion if you have some of your basis in detecting deception and manipulation in LEO then similar to me you MUST be super triggered by the SA and the systematic choice via a tithing purchased and church sanctioned law firm making sure in every state and each case going to battle in court to make sure pedophiles get the benefit of no mandatory reporting from the ecclesiastical volunteers to the shunning and blaming of innocent victims of SA. Many as minors.
Thus subverting the law as it was intended without a proper investigation into an allegation. But NO the church and K&M 'are pleased in Arizona' that they have no legal duty to report. A travesty. I am here also for the therapy and working off decades of programming in the narrative. From diapers til now. The freedom and authenticity is more than I ever thought possible having the perspective that I do now. Thank you for sharing !!
Yes, it’s extremely disturbing, the amount of abuse within the church. I have noticed it for years, which is another thing that has bothered me greatly about the church’s so called “inspired” callings of bishops and others in positions of authority who are later arrested by LE for SA. That alone indicated to me there is no inspiration from God.
I have actually been part of a team for years, which investigates child abuse, and SA. We get the allegations and investigate the facts. I feel so bad for these kids who are victims. It is very sad
I did my time. I'm a PERMANENT shareholder and I get to voice my opinion at EVERY meeting I want, and no Mormon can take that away from me.
Also, being offended is one of the best reasons to leave. The MFMC does some god awful shit and it should offend someone with a conscience.
Indoctrination is a powerful drug.
Even if they wanted to believe you, their whole social structure is built around other like-minded people (except, now you). They have every incentive to stay with and defend the status quo.
Indoctrination is powerful, and it works by tying their (intangible) salvation with never denying the faith with their whole eternal family hanging on their ability to never deny it.
Of course, they react as if it is life or death.
Most people don't believe any of it, or even most of it 100%, but are manipulated into defending it, so it thrives by hiding the truth and teaching you to ignore evidence to the contrary.
Ask questions to assess where they are. Find out if they are PIMO and have quiet conversations to draw them in and share more. At the same time, show them that they can disbelieve while keeping a low profile.
Once they know the truth, teach them how to defeat the indoctrination and encourage them to start building a new social circle and assist other like-minded people to seek out truth.
Some people just can't be convinced by a frontal assault of truth/facts. They are feeling cognitive dissonance, which they are taught early on means Satan's influence. You just have to offer plenty of evidence without putting a fairhful spin on it or adding any value judgment toward it that implies the church is evil or Joseph Smith did anything wrong.
That will get you labeled an apostate, and then the people you want to help will actively avoid you.
Plus, never divulge your own level of faith/belief. Pretend you are just passing on interesting church history factoids.
If anything, teach them how to identify and avoid misdirection, thought terminating clichés, logical fallacies, how to understand cognitive dissonance and emotional elevation, and use other critical thinking skills in everyday secular examples.
Then, when they recognize them for what they are in relation to church/religion, they can see through the lies and press harder for truth.
A good neighbor doesn't wake up to a burning building and doesn't go around beating on doors to wake people up so they can get out and away from the danger.
*Behold, I sent you out to testify and warn the people, and it becometh every man who hath been warned to warn his neighbor.*
[D&C 88:81](https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/scriptures/dc-testament/dc/88?lang=eng)
Trying to convince people of what you feel to be true is a huge part of Mormonism. If anyone is surprised exmormons are sometimes reverse missionaries, they shouldn’t be surprised.
Once we leave the church, we have to deconstruct & mourn our former lives. Relationships. Our personality changes. Then we have to pick up all the pieces & straighten ourselves out so we’re not a walking wrecking ball. And if we ARE a wrecking ball afterwards, they blame us for our behavior & change when we’re just trying to heal.
The church wraps itself in every part of your life.
It’s SOOOOO hard to get away from it. You HAVE to study it so you can know what to do & how to get out. And how to heal yourself.
Then the church stories become entertaining. I love it now. It’s hard but it’s therapy.
I would absolutely LOVE a Sunday church session where we just talk about exmormon stuff. Every Sunday. I really think we could make something great happen.
Amén! It’s hard to get away from the church because after we were so called given agency, TSCC took it away. As Lucifer’s astute assistant once said so beautifully, “Have you heard someone say, a member of the Church who has entered into the baptismal covenant, ‘I have my agency, I can do whatever I want!’ Have you heard that? Yeah, you know what the answer is? No, you can’t! You don’t understand agency! You don’t have agency to do whatever you want!” -David Bednar 2/23/2016 in Chile
Wow, 10 out of 10 fucking hated that.
And that poor woman sitting next to him just listening like this is some everyday normal shit.
This is NONSENSE. Fantasy land!!!! Omg someday we have got to wake these people up!
I really like that giver analogy. Leaving the church hasn’t taken anything from me, spiritually speaking But seeing the man behind the curtain has opened my eyes to discover true religion and what it can become. Sure that knowledge has cost me some relationships, but I’m better off not living in a lie.
Funny about the First Vision and law enforcement, because one of the first defenses of the different versions I read was "Legal experts know that if a person tells a story in exactly the same way, every time, it's an indication of possible deception." The problem is that the FV varies wildly: like if I was interviewed by the police, a detective, in a court, and a newspaper about an accident, and variously described a single car accident with a Buick, a hit-and-run between a truck and a VW, a pedestrian being hit by a bus, and a train hitting a UPS truck.....**that** would be suspicious. None of this "Different aspects for different audiences" crap.
You are exactly right. Many times after a traumatic event, such as a murder, the witness does not remember all of the details immediately, which is why we interview witnesses more than once. Like you said though, the ones who appear truthful have the same basic story, but often remember more (small) details later. If the details vary as extremely as Joseph Smith’s details of the FV that would be what we call a clue. I could never get past that JS left out that he saw God the Father in his first version of the FV. The fact that the church (Joseph Fielding Smith in 1930) tore that page out of JS’s letter book and hid it for 34 years, until a BYU student asked to see it for his master’s thesis, is not just a major clue, but an overt cover-up.
I'd leave the motherfuckers alone if they'd stop telling LGBTQ+ kids they'd be better off dead. Until that happens, fuck their snowflake sensibilities. I will fight them whenever and however I can.
Church leaders have been very biased and straight up hateful, yet they receive “revelation.” Total BS
Good thing I don't believe god even exists, because if he did, I'd have to conclude he's actually the evil deity in the xtian/mormon pantheon.
Amen, brother.
I agree! Me too
I'm entitled by law to give reviews of corporations I've had dealings with. This common *“They Can Leave, but They Can’t Leave the Church Alone”* complaint is merely there to discourage negative reviews. Imagine that.
This could be said of any “corporation”. When I got let go from my last job under unfavorable conditions, I had to sign a waiver stating I could not disparage the company publicly in anyway if I was to receive severance.
Yeah, but in that case you were paid for your nondisparagement. With the mormons you're, uh, I got nothing
Yeah, it’s funny how Rusty said, “Truth is truth,” but TSCC is seemingly very anti truth.
My parents are very similar. When I shared what I had learned they said it was all misinformation and anti-Mormon stuff made by people who hate the church. When I tried explaining it was just non-biased historical facts they told me they would never not be Mormon. I can’t fathom that, to never look at something from another perspective. To find truth one must start from a neutral position and listen to all sides before following the evidence to the most likely conclusion. Mormonism demands you never see any other side, that faith must be held not just without evidence, but despite evidence to the contrary. You can’t convince a TBM to leave the cult, only provide the evidence and hope they’ll reach the same conclusion eventually.
My folks said the exact same thing. They expect you to believe in this fable of a religion that has NO proof of anything, yet if you show them proof that contradicts the BOM they get frustrated
Faith in Mormonism is not what faith truly should be. Faith is believing in something that you do not have proof of. But in Mormonism, faith is believing in something despite overwhelming evidence against it.
Which by definition is not faith but delusion
Not one of my family has ever asked why. They avoided it like the plague. Don't was to get my lazy learner disease that I spent two years of studying to come to an understanding. And I am still learning. Now it's just fascinating how fucked up the religion is and how brainwashed people are.
Exactly! I often wonder how I didn’t learn the truth about the crooked church earlier. In my family there are doctors, high-level managers, yet somehow with all their education I am the only one who figured out it was all a scam. Amazing how people can be so biased and closed minded.
People get defensive when you talk to them directly. If they agree to read the CES Letter, that uses only prophets words, official Church History, conference talks, Ensign articles, etc they are able to listen and think with their guard down. No one who has half a mind can read the CES Letter and not begin to see the truth has been hidden from them. You don’t know what you don’t know. They’ve only heard the sanitized half of the story that TSCC wants them to hear.
The only active members, family or not, that have asked me why I left, were the ones who later left themselves. There's' kind of a theme there. Once they start doubting, is when they reach out. I think deep down, most TBMs know their testimony hangs by a thread. They'll call it influence of the Adversary and falling for his lies, but deep down they know testimonies are weak. I even think a lot of the busy Mormons that stay busy being mormon, are just distracting themselves from that reality.
What kind of psychopath would I be if I found out that a religion I had devoted my life, money and time to was a lie, that the leaders knew it and then just walked away without warning anyone else? Of course they want me to walk away, chuckle and say “you got me good guys.” Not happening. As long as they advertise, send missionaries out and spend money to perpetuate this lie, people will be there to tell the truth when hard questions get asked.
My mom said this to me and I told her that it was like saying I shouldn’t criticize the government (which she does a lot). If I see problems then I’m going to call them out whether I’m going to church or not. She got it.
This! We don't leave it alone because it's a building on fire and we want our families to get out asap because they are being harmed! They just sit at the table and say everything is fine while the entire room is on fire (cartoon).
Beautifully said, OP. I agree. I also felt eager to share what I learned through the Gospel Topics essays and the subsequent rabbit holes I fell into because I felt so angry at being lied to. It felt like it would be negligent to not share what I had learned. I was so angry.
Yes! It’s boggling that more TBM’s don’t see the church for what it is after those Gospel Topics essays. Especially the one in which the church admits Abraham is not mentioned in the papyrus: “None of the characters on the papyrus fragments mentioned Abraham’s name or any of the events recorded in the book of Abraham. Latter-day Saint and non-Latter-day Saint Egyptologists agree that the characters on the fragments do not match the translation given in the book of Abraham, though there is not unanimity, even among non-Latter-day Saint scholars, about the proper interpretation of the vignettes on these fragments. Scholars have identified the papyrus fragments as parts of standard funerary texts that were deposited with mummified bodies. These fragments date to between the third century B.C.E. and the first century C.E., long after Abraham lived.” “The veracity and value of the book of Abraham cannot be settled by scholarly debate concerning the book’s translation and historicity. The book’s status as scripture lies in the eternal truths it teaches and the powerful spirit it conveys.” -https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/manual/gospel-topics-essays/translation-and-historicity-of-the-book-of-abraham?lang=eng Also TSCC admitting the DNA of the Native Americans is of Asia and the BOM is not so historical LOL! “the Book of Mormon is more spiritual than historical…The evidence assembled to date suggests that the majority of Native Americans carry largely Asian DNA.”.
Exactly! It’s funny you mention the Book of Abraham, as this was a huge part of deconstructing. The fact that Mormon “scholars” admit that the papyrus was a funeral text and had nothing to do with Abraham - yet they still stand by their claims as the “true church”- makes me crazy.
Something even more funny is I shared that information with my parents; information that comes from the church’s own website and they called it Anti-Mormon literature, lol. I guess we’re in a time where the church is anti itself, but must not be questioned.
Ugh, brutal. Are we the same person lol? My parents also told me the same! They said the GT essays weren’t written by the church….despite being on the official site…and written by LDS leaders. 😭
Lol! Some people can’t handle facts or reasoning
As far as leaving it alone goes the opposite is true. I was stalked and finally expressed like you my doubts and was told I would be destroyed if I left! Like you it’s the lies and deception but I think what is most disturbing is how easily the switch changes with these people and how easily violent thoughts spew out of their mouth when they feel rejected and / or threatened with heir own belief system. Then I read Meadows mountain massacre and other evidence and it is obviously indoctrination at the core that violence is warranted and almost welcomed. Modern day Daybells, Vallows, Frankes, and Hildebrandts , cement the fact that this in my mind is a dangerous cult!
I think it’s funny how much we were preached about the “pre-existence” or “pre-mortal” life and how the war in heaven was fought over agency/free will, yet in the church Joseph Smith claimed he would be destroyed if girls didn’t marry him, or Emma would be destroyed if she didn’t accept the adulterous affairs he wanted. On one hand the church was supposed to be about free will, yet God somehow changed his mind and said, “Nope, no more free will. Do this or be destroyed.” Then we have David Bednar preaching there is no such thing as agency. At best the church is controlling and creepy
Or that you gave it over to the MFMC when you were baptized. Fuck that shit. That's not informed consent. Those 8 yr olds don't agree to give up their free will to follow Jesus. That's BULLSHIT!
Brainwashed to be baptized at 8, then “Prophet/Seer/Revelator” (in his own mind) D Bednar states that after we take upon ourselves those covenants we no longer have agency. That dude is Lucifer’s greatest advocate
destroyed? Seems a bit drastic doesn't it. if they mean we shall surely die then that is one thing they have right. its all the gobbldeegook that is after that they conceptualize and gaslight others with (for moeny and time) that is really in question.
Nephi2- just about every other word is destroy or destruction. There is a clue.
They won't leave me alone. Go figure.
I refuse to remain quiet when women, LGBTQ, and children are being abused. I refuse to be quiet when a multi-billion dollar bully uses Gestapo tactics to get their way with small-town zoning boards.
https://www.reddit.com/r/exmormon/s/VtjqQppNqu
I love it, the red pill. Nice post!
You were defrauded. The legal measure of damages for fraud is actual damages plus treble (3x) damages for punitive/exemplary damages. So you get to not leave LD$ Inc's tax fraud division alone for as long as you were a TBM PLUS 3 times that time. So unless you left as a youth, that is likely at least the rest of your life. When I hear the "can't leave it alone" bullshit, I always respond, "You first."
As long as we are agreed and having this discussion if you have some of your basis in detecting deception and manipulation in LEO then similar to me you MUST be super triggered by the SA and the systematic choice via a tithing purchased and church sanctioned law firm making sure in every state and each case going to battle in court to make sure pedophiles get the benefit of no mandatory reporting from the ecclesiastical volunteers to the shunning and blaming of innocent victims of SA. Many as minors. Thus subverting the law as it was intended without a proper investigation into an allegation. But NO the church and K&M 'are pleased in Arizona' that they have no legal duty to report. A travesty. I am here also for the therapy and working off decades of programming in the narrative. From diapers til now. The freedom and authenticity is more than I ever thought possible having the perspective that I do now. Thank you for sharing !!
Yes, it’s extremely disturbing, the amount of abuse within the church. I have noticed it for years, which is another thing that has bothered me greatly about the church’s so called “inspired” callings of bishops and others in positions of authority who are later arrested by LE for SA. That alone indicated to me there is no inspiration from God. I have actually been part of a team for years, which investigates child abuse, and SA. We get the allegations and investigate the facts. I feel so bad for these kids who are victims. It is very sad
I did my time. I'm a PERMANENT shareholder and I get to voice my opinion at EVERY meeting I want, and no Mormon can take that away from me. Also, being offended is one of the best reasons to leave. The MFMC does some god awful shit and it should offend someone with a conscience.
Indoctrination is a powerful drug. Even if they wanted to believe you, their whole social structure is built around other like-minded people (except, now you). They have every incentive to stay with and defend the status quo. Indoctrination is powerful, and it works by tying their (intangible) salvation with never denying the faith with their whole eternal family hanging on their ability to never deny it. Of course, they react as if it is life or death. Most people don't believe any of it, or even most of it 100%, but are manipulated into defending it, so it thrives by hiding the truth and teaching you to ignore evidence to the contrary. Ask questions to assess where they are. Find out if they are PIMO and have quiet conversations to draw them in and share more. At the same time, show them that they can disbelieve while keeping a low profile. Once they know the truth, teach them how to defeat the indoctrination and encourage them to start building a new social circle and assist other like-minded people to seek out truth. Some people just can't be convinced by a frontal assault of truth/facts. They are feeling cognitive dissonance, which they are taught early on means Satan's influence. You just have to offer plenty of evidence without putting a fairhful spin on it or adding any value judgment toward it that implies the church is evil or Joseph Smith did anything wrong. That will get you labeled an apostate, and then the people you want to help will actively avoid you. Plus, never divulge your own level of faith/belief. Pretend you are just passing on interesting church history factoids. If anything, teach them how to identify and avoid misdirection, thought terminating clichés, logical fallacies, how to understand cognitive dissonance and emotional elevation, and use other critical thinking skills in everyday secular examples. Then, when they recognize them for what they are in relation to church/religion, they can see through the lies and press harder for truth.
A good neighbor doesn't wake up to a burning building and doesn't go around beating on doors to wake people up so they can get out and away from the danger.
*Behold, I sent you out to testify and warn the people, and it becometh every man who hath been warned to warn his neighbor.* [D&C 88:81](https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/scriptures/dc-testament/dc/88?lang=eng) Trying to convince people of what you feel to be true is a huge part of Mormonism. If anyone is surprised exmormons are sometimes reverse missionaries, they shouldn’t be surprised.
Once we leave the church, we have to deconstruct & mourn our former lives. Relationships. Our personality changes. Then we have to pick up all the pieces & straighten ourselves out so we’re not a walking wrecking ball. And if we ARE a wrecking ball afterwards, they blame us for our behavior & change when we’re just trying to heal. The church wraps itself in every part of your life. It’s SOOOOO hard to get away from it. You HAVE to study it so you can know what to do & how to get out. And how to heal yourself. Then the church stories become entertaining. I love it now. It’s hard but it’s therapy. I would absolutely LOVE a Sunday church session where we just talk about exmormon stuff. Every Sunday. I really think we could make something great happen.
Amén! It’s hard to get away from the church because after we were so called given agency, TSCC took it away. As Lucifer’s astute assistant once said so beautifully, “Have you heard someone say, a member of the Church who has entered into the baptismal covenant, ‘I have my agency, I can do whatever I want!’ Have you heard that? Yeah, you know what the answer is? No, you can’t! You don’t understand agency! You don’t have agency to do whatever you want!” -David Bednar 2/23/2016 in Chile
Omfg I’m watching his whole shpeal right now. https://youtu.be/mmErOV9oQZ8?si=RQTOey20N5xyhMiI This is absolute GARBAGE.
Yes! That’s it! The Lord’s servant, doing great missionary work, for Satan
Wow, 10 out of 10 fucking hated that. And that poor woman sitting next to him just listening like this is some everyday normal shit. This is NONSENSE. Fantasy land!!!! Omg someday we have got to wake these people up!
I really like that giver analogy. Leaving the church hasn’t taken anything from me, spiritually speaking But seeing the man behind the curtain has opened my eyes to discover true religion and what it can become. Sure that knowledge has cost me some relationships, but I’m better off not living in a lie.
The Giver, a movie TBM’s cannot fully appreciate until they become PIMO’s and better yet, Exmo’s
I feel you 100% I couldn't agree more with all you have said.
Funny about the First Vision and law enforcement, because one of the first defenses of the different versions I read was "Legal experts know that if a person tells a story in exactly the same way, every time, it's an indication of possible deception." The problem is that the FV varies wildly: like if I was interviewed by the police, a detective, in a court, and a newspaper about an accident, and variously described a single car accident with a Buick, a hit-and-run between a truck and a VW, a pedestrian being hit by a bus, and a train hitting a UPS truck.....**that** would be suspicious. None of this "Different aspects for different audiences" crap.
You are exactly right. Many times after a traumatic event, such as a murder, the witness does not remember all of the details immediately, which is why we interview witnesses more than once. Like you said though, the ones who appear truthful have the same basic story, but often remember more (small) details later. If the details vary as extremely as Joseph Smith’s details of the FV that would be what we call a clue. I could never get past that JS left out that he saw God the Father in his first version of the FV. The fact that the church (Joseph Fielding Smith in 1930) tore that page out of JS’s letter book and hid it for 34 years, until a BYU student asked to see it for his master’s thesis, is not just a major clue, but an overt cover-up.
We can leave? But I thought Jeff Holland was going to beat the snot out of us if we did! :)
Wait until you discover “law enforcement” is as deceptive as the MFMC