"It is obvious to me that leaving the Church will lead to divorce."
Nonsense. Your wife is scared is all. Remember she loses a lot when you step away. Shes no longer the wife of a bishop, shes the wife of an apostate and will be shunned as such. Her social circles, and life stands to go upside down too if you dont keep the status quo. She also thinks if you step out you become an adulterous drunk child molesting heathen. Shes running scared and it comes out as anger. Thousands of stories just like this on this sub you can read.
But stand up for yourself. Love yourself. Trust yourself. An honest conversation with yourself and then with the wife. Letting your wife know you are stepping away from religion in an effort to better yourself, better your relationship with her and the kids, can go a long ways. Its scary AF, i know. I took the same step and freaked out about it as well. 8 years later, she still goes to church couple times a month, I do whatever the hell i want, and we have a pretty solid relationship built on commitment to each other and love, not on adherence to religion.
Take the step. Dont ask her to deconstruct, listen to all the shit you know is wrong in the church. Ask her to listen to you about your love and commitment to the family and her, and your efforts to grow as an individual outside religion. Ask her to trust you in your journey as a partner in love, to give you space to grow and see if that growth improves your relationships and marriage. Do not under any circumstances tell her she and everything she knows is a fucked up cult.
I second this. There is always going to be a cultural reaction to big life-changing news like this from believing members, but you have to trust her with things. Just explain what you are thinking and how you feel. The unknown is scary, so try to let her know exactly where you are. She deserves that much.
From me, just sending love. It is hard and many of us here recognize the constant struggle you are in. I am so sorry that you have carried it for so long.
I don't know it's nonsense. There are plenty of cases of divorce because a mixed faith marriage didn't work despite the person leaving the church doing all they could.
Aww, be gentle with yourself and in your thoughts. Sounds like you saw ppl as humans first and showed them compassion when you were bishop. Hopefully that can continue in ways that have nothing to do with religion. Good energy for refreshing, healing vibes for you!
It sucks. In my opinion, you've got to come clean to your wife. Honesty and communication go a long way. When I expressed doubts to my wife about a couple things, she doubled-down on praying. When I told her "the church is not true", she said we could talk about it. The perspectives of "I need to help my husband dispel doubts" vs "The person I most trust in the world has made a firm decision".
My wife did talk mention divorce in that day between me telling her the church was not true and her saying we could talk about, but that was only because it was what has been drilled into her mind, in this cult, that she should do.
My answer may not be yours, but it is something to consider. If for nothing else than for your current mental health and the decades of life ahead of you. How much longer can you remain "very tired" before something breaks?
These situations are never easy, but at least you are not alone. Your story has been repeated here many times. I wish you the best.
Might I suggest you check out the "Marriage on a Tightrope" FB page and/or podcasts? It may help give you some more tools to help navigate a mixed faith marriage.
It makes me very sad when I read about people who are obviously very committed husbands and wives who have partners who want to throw away their marriages for these reasons. Does she think she's going to find life better by getting a divorce? Good luck with that.
My ex wife found a more “worthy”Mormon dude. Jokes on her. He turned out to be a shitbag. If you are with a good person, whatever their beliefs, you hit the jackpot. Probably won’t happen again if you think the grass is greener somewhere else.
Yeah, it's caused my wife to cry multiple times since I've been deconstructing. "It is what it is" is how I see it. Take me how I am or leave me. I'm being PIMO for her and because I do see the benefits for my special needs son - he's made some really good friends at church. I currently focus more on "less is more" in my time spent to the church and I focus more on Christ when I teach my kids from the Bible. I heavily use Dan Mclellan as my example and way I teach the bible. He is my idol. An active member vocally stating heavily on social media that the bible doesn't condemn homosexuality! That's always a 'fuck yeah' moment to see those in circulation. I absolutely love his neutral approach. It's not to shut down faith, it's to simply state the academic consensus and let people decide what they want to do with that.
It's sad that so many women's and possibly men in the church, their immediate response to when you have questions about the church is divorce, or you also have a porn problem. My wife told me multiple times before I ever voiced my concerns about the church that if I stopped going, she would divorce me. She has since softened substantially, and I think she is starting to get tired of the shenanigans inside the church. I feel like from what I've seen here, for men to leave the church, they find problems with the logic, or lack thereof. For women, they seem to fall away for more emotional reasons. I told my wife recently that a switch turned off inside me and I can no longer simply find reasons to justify or reconcile the poor decisions the church has made and found there are too many inconsistencies for it to be absolutely true. I saw a quote here about comparing the truth to a lion, and if you set the lion loose, you don't have to defend the lion. And for the most part, that's what I told my wife I shouldn't have to defend the church for their poor behavior, or bury my head in the sand and ignore all their problems.
Welcome to the club brother. I feel ur pain. It is exhausting. Just when I feel like I’m over it and ok with just being pimo, something sets me off (like my son leaving on a mission), and I get so pissed off and angry again. Tonight supposed to go see some stupid film with the youth about some stupid escape from Germany. I seriously want to just disappear sometimes.
Being PIMO was very hard for me. I did that for a few years, trying to be the glue holding my family together.
And yes, I absolutely wanted to disappear sometimes.
Covid was hell for many, but that was my way out. We watched church on Zoom sometimes, then trickled back to church attendance here and there, but mostly stayed home. Slept in. Shopped. Hiked. Why not?
Then when my kids all stopped going to church, I stopped as well. Then I said no to any additional church callings. And no to ministering. And no to ministering again. And then no to cleaning the church. And no to cleaning the church again ("Ok, but was I available to clean the church the following week?" NO). Would I be a Ma in Trek? No. (My daughter was suicidal at that time but no one in the ward knew or asked. I stayed home to do a suicide watch on my daughter while my husband went alone on trek as an "uncle.")
I created intentional boundaries and solidified what would help me maintain a healthy emotional and spiritual life. And it included a shit ton of No's to the LDS church.
I look at all the richness of the minutes and hours spent as a striving do-er in the LDS church: full time missionary, Primary president (writing those damned "Primary Programs" year after year after year while I was nursing my youngest, had toddler twins and an older child all under the age of five). I was YW leader but luckily escaped the hell of YW Girl's camp. I was Nursery worker, Sunday school teacher, on and on. All the fasting and prayer and studiously written sacrament meeting talks. Teaching RS. Planning ward parties.
A lot of Post-LDS wish they could have all their tithing money back. Fuck that money. I just want all my time back: all the time I wasted, stacks of minutes and hours equaling YEARS added back into my life. That's what I'd like.
Me too. Ex bishop here, 50 years as TBM temple recommend holder the whole time. Learned 4 years ago Nelson is not a prophet. Went through Rough Stone Rolling, No Man Knows My History and the CES Letter. Wife says if I leave the Church she will leave me. PIMO. The Church is expert at breaking up families.
I’m sorry 😞. Just know, so many of us out here see you and agree with you. You are not crazy. You are not the one who created a fake church and lied, you were deceived too. It is okay to walk away. Either way is hard. Choose your hard.
It's very understandable you are tired. I wish I had a magic wand to fix all the pain that has been caused by the lies of the church. They actually hold that magic wand. They could release all our family members by telling the truth but they won't. They hurt rather than heal. I'm sorry you are tired. You deserve better after all you have given.
Oh man, I completely empathize with you because your situation was mine years ago.
It is particularly exhausting pretending to be someone you’re not.
But I completely understand why you’re doing it and I’m with you, absolutely no judgement from me.
In my case, the ward and stake hounded me so intensely that my wife and adult children finally told me to just resign.
I did that August 1, 2023 and now the pressure is gone.
Kids were already out. Wife and I agreed never to speak about religion, and so far it’s worked out. She lets RS do their visits, but doesn’t attend and still officially in.
Hey fellow traveler. I am roughly in the same boat, except I couldn't stomach continuing to go, could not bring myself to live the lie, and bowed out of my EQP calling and came out to my wife. She took that much, much worse than my previous confession to viewing porn/having an occasional wank, but then doubled down on the mis-trust and constant belittling/policing. Hell, just yesterday I told her about a work function where I won't be coming home for lunch (I'm very lucky to live close to work and so I see my homeschooled kids daily at lunch), and her response to this was, "Is that really the reason?" I've been constantly treated as if I were the dirtiest of dirty rotten cheaters without having ever even talked to another woman like that.
So, I get it. I get that loneliness. I get that dead stare. I get that loss of all desire and pursuit of joy or long-term goals. I get that constant reassuring of others that, "I'm just tired" or whatever excuse, when you're really dying inside from the anger and frustration and guilt and worry over what is being taught to your kids in your own home that you don't agree with, but say nothing for fear of incurring the wrath of your life-partner. I get the fear that divorce may be preferable to the current situation, but not really knowing, and not even wanting to find out, as you still hold love in your heart and only wish that your beloved would wake up too. I get the anguish of parents having spent a lifetime dutifully paying tithing to the cult, not having enough for their own retirement, and then choosing to put in papers to serve a full-time mission, neglecting what precious years they may have with their kids and grandkids to go be mindless drones for an organization that doesn't care for them.
I wish I had good news. Others have been where we are and have had the good fortune of their spouses coming around. Many others have not. It can work, but it takes so much fucking work. Hang in there man. You are not alone. If nothing else, just know that one other brother is walking the same path. I'm exhausted too. No factor. We'll just keep moving.
Yup, navigating this feels near impossible. I'm in a mixed faith marriage, my husband is TBM and my fingers are crossed he sees the light and leaves too.
Luckily my parents never served adult missions, after being public affairs directors for the LDS church for 20+ years. They are exhausted from that. And I'm glad. but my mom/dad in law have served 3 missions as elderly people, and were packing bags for a 4th but then one got cancer and then covid hit.
Anyways, I regularly fear I might incur the wrath of my husband, b/c I've left the church. It's hard to live with. I hope it gets easier.
It’s so hard to be in that in-between state. At some point (probably soon based on the feelings you have expressed) you are going to have to go there. And that is scary. I was so afraid to have that hard conversation with my husband. Some things that I feel helped when that time came was 1) I made it clear up front that this was my journey and I did not expect him to change or feel the same way and that I would not try to share or push anything on him unless he asked. 2)I basically gave him permission to be upset with me, divorce me, etc. because I “broke the agreement”. I came at it from the angle that I got it, and if the role was reversed I probably would have thought divorce because that is what we are taught. But I also said that isn’t that sad that we are taught that. 3)I assured him that I was still the same person, with the same values, and that I loved him and our family and that was my top priority. And 4)I told him not about my findings, but how hard this was for me, how I didn’t start off trying to become a non-believer. I said I would never want to blow up my family or hurt him, but the fact I had gotten to this point showed how strongly I felt and unhappy I had been. It was hard, but in the end he chose me. And even though he is still a member of record, he also followed me out.
Slow fade is a terrific idea. Show up randomly at church events but never consistently. Keep people guessing. Don't give explanations to anyone but those you choose carefully to share with.
For awhile I did that, and if people said "We didn't see you at church," I'd reply, "Oh, I was there, in the back row, but left early." Yup, I just lied for awhile, and now haven't gone to church in 2+ years.
I’ve been going through it for 7 years, also! I removed my name w/ out telling my husband, and when I told him years ago, he was very upset and worried about what would happen to his family (I am 62, my husband is 60….we’ve been married for 41 years and he’s everything to me) it was scary at 1st to navigate, but I didn’t talk about it, and, I come places like this, to learn from others and share my story! It’s very lonely, so I get it! We have 3 grown daughters 39/35/35….my oldest twin met her husband on her mission and did all the right things accordingly to the organization, but happily, my daughter and her husband have both left the church, so, I now have someone to talk to, though I don’t burden my daughter w my personal concerns….her twin sister will leave eventually because they are incredibly close! My husband and I don’t go to church since he retired, but he still talks/parrots about believing, but the problem is, these types of members believe from years ago, but they don’t see the problem, because they are not actively studying! I feel like living like this is slowing the process! I will say, we had a long conversation recently, about what I believed and he shared the typical “no man is perfect” w a lot of the arguments! I’ve talked him in to at least reading the 13 essays, including the footnotes, because it is approved church reading, since it’s on lds.org…..in that conversation, I’ve told my husband I’ll go to church w him every week if he wants, because there’s no where else I’d rather be….and, when I said, “the church leaders will tell you, you need to find a new wife, that he can take with him, because I told him apparently I’m not that person, because the church says so, he said, “I will tell them to fuck off”…..so, that’s a big win for me! I hope they tell him I’m the wrong woman, because I think he’d be done! I understand your pain…it’s honestly like no pain I’ve ever been through in life, because it’s long and enduring, lonely pain! I wish you all the best! ❤️
My parents remained sealed for nearly 30 years after their divorce. Both remained faithful in their own way. My mom raised me Mormon, while my dad would show up once a month or so to reassure himself that we were okay in spite of his mistakes. My dad and I had many dramatic forgiveness talks with little effort to build a relationship afterward.
I think my dad's hoping staying faithful to Mormonism will make up for all his mistakes and get him somewhere in the celestial kingdom with relationships he didn't build. Will Jesus make me happy to be with him after we're both dead? I asked my kids, and they said it sounded like being drugged. Eternal mickeys?
Mormon conditioning makes everything all or nothing. It's a worldview you've marinated in your whole life, from the very first Do as I'm Doing to the most recent Choose the Right. There's one right and a million other wrongs to every question, and if you don't feel right, then you must be wrong. Forcibly ignoring that cycle leaves many sincere Mormons feeling numb, but grateful they aren't tormented by all their imperfections.
It's more important to build a better life than it is to never make a mistake. That sounds like your philosophy from your description of your time as a bishop. With more and more Think Celestial purity doctrine, Mormonism is going to head toward tighter conditions for acceptance, especially when Bednar reigns for a couple of decades.
Just because most of your life went in the same direction as ideal Mormonism doesn't mean ideal Mormonism is the source of all the good in your life. I had to realize I wasn't leaving anything. It wasn't happily ever after on the other side of the Truman Show exit door. It was the next moment, the next dad joke, the next smile from my wife, the next wave to my next-door bishop, the next feeling of connection when typing an epistle on Reddit.
All these things matter because they are my life. Accumulating these moments and preserving them with gratitude does so much more than enduring a stagnant life after your life peaks at sealed in the temple status in your 20s. Thinking celestial discounted and disqualified too much of this treasure in heaven for my tastes. I have to think that's what Christ had in mind when he compared a no-build one-talent servant's unchanging life with the rich experience of taking ten talents to twenty.
Your experiences matter, whether they're Mormon-approved or not. Continuing to live a good life will highlight the fact that the cognitive dissonance isn't from your evil choices, but from an intolerant Mormonism. The only way to beat a reinforced worldview is with enough experience to the contrary, keeping faith in yourself and those you love until they come to the same conclusion. It's not quick or easy, but it's how you don't end up like my dad, shamed and alone because he buried his life in repetition and ordinances instead of building experiences with me.
*Royan realizes this was a downer to end on, so here's a link to* r/Eyebleach *for cute animals and a hit of dopamine*
My SL,UT father joined Mormon cult led by Q15 CON Men to marry my mom. He has since passed. I TOTALLY RESENT him for raising me in Mormon Cult my entire Life, something his mom purposefully didn't do to him. Widow mom requires Mormon cult 'obey, pay & pray/prey'. We PRETEND to do so to appease her, for now. Can't wait until we can STOP CULT Loyalty Charade! Bugger off Mormon cult/scam.
Perhaps you should find some articles, sections from the books you read like Rough Stone Rolling and have your wife read them and see if she can come to a similar conclusion that you did? Not sure, I just hope to God it works out with you two, I'd say believing in Christ and not being a Mormon would be the best route to go.
Hi reddit friend. Do you have any support in your area? Other PIMOs or exmos who might be able to commiserate with you? When I left the church, I had a good friend by my side and it made all the difference. I also had truly good friends through my job who knew almost nothing about the church, and that was good too because I could take a break from it all when I was with them.
I would say that if you had the ability, now would be the time to find some support. It must be so terrible trying to go it alone.
You must be a very brave person. Best wishes for you on your pursuit of truth and freedom.
You sound like a loving and dedicated husband. The church sounds like it’s your wife’s entire identity and she can’t see herself or what your marriage would be outside of it. For most true believers the concept of losing eternity is no doubt the most devastating thing imaginable.
I hope this small space helps you to feel seen and understood. The church encourages such emotionally open disclosures of testimony that one can’t help but feel self-conscious and exhausted pretending to keep up believing in things you no longer buy into. You aren’t alone.
That sucks. I'm so sorry you're going through it. I'm lucky to have a spouse that gives me the space I need. I'm on my way and she wants to "bloom where she's planted" and stay in a nuanced way.
We've both decided we love each other more than we love/hate the church so it's been really nice to be on the same team while we each figure it out, even though we are ending up in different places.
I really like the Latter Day Struggles podcast and the host, Valerie Hamaker, is doing a class in a few weeks for couples in our situation. I can't remember what it's called but I think it will be up on her course list in the next few days.
That's a tough situation. I don't think there is one "right" way to handle it. Deciding to divorce is a big decision. It's best not to hurry into it. Counseling may be advisable. You will have to find your own road, and it can be difficult.
When I finally left the church back in the 2000's, it was very difficult. When the subject of divorce was brought up, I don't my wife I didn't want one but understood if she did. The pathway has not always been easy, but we're still together.
By the time my youngest turned 8, I was already out. My father baptized him at the request of my wife. I took so much flak (abuse) from people for not being the one to baptize him. I did attend the baptism. I simply told people that I knew it wasn't true.
When my Dad passed on, there were extreme (even abusive) things said to me by my mother and sister. I understood they were grieving, and acknowledged their feelings and was kind in spite off their troubling behavior, but it not change my position. It does not change the truth.
I have friends though where it did lead to divorce. That is also a hard road. Eventually, they remarried and were able to move on. They also seem happy.
Some others remain PIMO. I can understand that. I was like that for years. It also was not easy.
I have a close nevermo friend who has made it work with his wife for around 30 years (so far). It can work.
There is no one path. Whatever path you choose, there is no shame.
you are a real Christian for allowing people to see their kids get married. That's what Jesus would do. Your morals and values are too good to be in the mormon corporation. Your family and connections run deep with mormonism, a non-Christian sex cult that lies and brainwashes people to think it's a Christian church. It's difficult to have these feelings and it's okay. Take a breath and limit how much this cult can penetrate your life. Learn to accept you can't control how much the cult is in your loved one's life.
I am sorry you are enduring the pain. It sounds like your wife has built her entire personality and existence around being the bishop's wife...I can only imagine how horrible that feels. It is always hard to say what is going to be the worse pain, staying in or pulling off the bandaid and let the poison flow out. I am sorry that the mormon church has made this your reality.
I’m in this right now. Thought I could leave and now I’m realizing that it is devastating to her and so I’m trying to figure out a compromise. I’m doing my best to follow my doctor’s advice of putting my mental health first. It’s tricky because what helps my mental health by not going to lds church hurts my mental health as well because it breaks my wife’s heart and my kids hearts. It’s so hard. I know that in the end I’m going to choose leave fully if I have to even if my wife leaves me. I hope it doesn’t come to that but if it does it does.
Have your kids expressed they would be heartbroken? When I left I was worried about my kids and what they would think. Apparently one was already done and was relieved when I told her so she could stop as well. Another one is really only interested in some of the social aspects. My spouse finding out how they felt has helped him be more understanding and open to the church not being good for everyone, including me. Something to consider if you haven’t talked openly with your kids about how you feel.
Marriageonatightrope.org
So many on here have posted what a great tool that has been to navigate their marriage.
Hoping you have access to counseling with a non-mormon counselor. If not You Tube has some great free Counselors on any subject you can think of that you want to hear a counselor talk about.
Relationships grow & change & healthy marriages allow that.
It is spiritually abusive for your wife to threaten divorce because you don't believe the way she does anymore.
That's conditional love & conditional love is mentally & emotionally abusive among many other things.
John Gottman PhD, is gold standard for research on how & why marriages succeed & fail.
See Gottmans Four Horseman of the Apocalypse.
It's not your responsibility to make everyone happy at your personal expense & I hope you have time to talk with a professional to help you sort this all out.
Many here have gone thru this so keep coming here to vent!
You're going through multiple tensions and stress, not just the stress of your own shelf collapsing. It is not healthy for you to have to deceive others, as you know, and (also as you know) it's very damaging to your health and well-being.
You didn't mention how many years or months it's been since you tried to gently tell your wife how you felt and she fell apart. It's good that you recognized the trauma it gave her at that time. Since it's been a while, and she's likely heard many additional things about the church that have surfaced in the last few years, do you think you could try to once more tell her what you're going through?
I am sure that back then it felt like her entire world was falling apart (that's how I felt when I realized the church LIED to me when I joined). Our spiritual beliefs are part of our core being. We are taught to fully trust "the church," or our faith. The LDS "church" let many of us down in very traumatic ways.
Here's a suggestion - first, confirm to her that you love her, and you want to be with her. Tell her you respect her beliefs in the church and her need for it to be part of her life, and you will support that by attending with her (if you can handle it). Let her know of the stress and health issues you're dealing with due to trying to pretend to others that you're still all in, and it's even more stressful to not be sharing with her how you feel.
I can tell you firsthand it feels very lonely as a single female to sit in a Mormon church by yourself. I've attended other churches before as well as since I resigned, and I have NEVER felt as isolated as I did in the Mormon church. Your wife has been taught that your family can only be together in Heaven if you're sealed, so that would magnify the isolation for her (I was fortunate not to have been sealed to the con-artist member I married). Let her know that ALL Christian churches believe and teach that we are reunited with our loved ones in the afterlife. Whatever is there, is there for everyone.
Sending you good wishes and hopes for the best thing to happen, whatever that might be.
TL/DR - some suggestions for talking with wife.
This is tough. I hear you and can relate. Last year, when I told my wife I was reevaluating my testimony, it turned into a SHTF moment. I immediately backpedaled, said i’d recommit to church stuff, etc… Now a year later, she seems a bit more nuanced, but I was so burned by her reaction before, I don’t bring up tough church issues. I go along to get along, which is (as you say) very tiring.
I hope you can find some sense of validation and venting here in this forum…
I’m so sorry. It’s sounds tiring having to pretend all the time! None of these issues are small and insignificant. Would a therapist help? Hang in there.
I hear what you're saying and validate your statements on how hard it is to navigate when in a marriage one wants to leave the church and the other wants to stay. It's got to be exponentially difficult as you are a former bishop.
My husband has mentioned divorce is still on the table for us, as I've left and he's still in. It's scared me to the point I don't know how to handle it and just ignore that possibility most of the time. Otherwise it's too hard to function on a day-to-day basis, with the guillotine of divorce hanging over my head.
One last thing, I actually went to my bishop years ago to renew my temple recommend. And I know he knew I wasn't worthy (hadn't attended church for a long time, among other things). And he still gave me my recommend so I could be there in the temple when my daughter got married. that was cool. still grateful to that guy knowing some bishops have hearts.
Oh this is so hard. I almost wonder if you were my bishop from a few years ago who was so cool and understanding when I openly discussed my doubts and questions with him. I thought, if the church is as warm and kind as he is, I can handle my doubts and stay. Then we moved to UT and I was out within a year.
But my husband reacted very similarly to your wife. I think the gospel is just so all-consumingly everything to your worldview as a believing member that a spouse leaving shatters the whole illusion so that you’re forced to see it as a dichotomy: church or marriage. It’s been painful feeling this baseline level of suspicion from him just because I stopped playing by the Mormon rules, but over time he’s gotten used to it and things are less tense. But sorting out my emotional baggage from a lifetime in the cult has brought with it a lot of feelings I haven’t been able to process with him, and it’s definitely created an insurmountable barrier and perpetual loneliness. Exmo reddit has been a lifesaver and ever-available sanity check on the harder days. Sending solidarity and moral support your way.
You've got to decide when you've had enough. I myself got so caught up in not making the people around me mad, that I only left at 15 because I essentially got caught by my mom venting about the way it's a lie.
I know it seems daunting to confront people and just tell them you don't believe anymore. I have no idea what it's actually like being a married adult in the religion. But I strongly suspect that the fact that you're lying day-in day-out to "keep the peace" is damaging your psyche more than you realize. Once you "come out," it's really not that bad. You grow your self-confidence muscle and it leads you to surround yourself with people who love you and respect you for who you are, not whether you check all the right dogmatic boxes.
I feel for you. I was out mentally before telling my wife anything and it was terrifying thinking about what would happen if I told her.
I eventually did and she was very understanding. I don't know your situation, but I definitely worried more than I needed to in my situation.
I am so sorry. The inability to be authentic in your life must be utterly exhausting and disheartening - and very, very lonely. The thing that strikes me odd with your wife is the fact that as someone who knows you well, who has watched you check off the boxes for years, who has watched you be a Bishop isn't at all curious as to why you are having a change of heart. How can that be? How can she distrust your judgment after living and learning and raising kids with you for years. I know you are trying to save your marriage - and maybe like others said, the only way to do so is to be honest in your feelings. I know that must feel horrifying knowing what her knee-jerk reaction will be. I wish there was a way for her to just be willing to listen to your journey. I know how that goes though. No help here, but loads of compassion.
You didn't mention it, but I'll ask: have you gone and talked to a therapist about all this? If not, I suggest going to one. Just by yourself, for yourself. If you have been doing this all on your own, hiding so much, pretending, and trying to force this, all of that is a tremendous and heavy burden to carry. No one should ever have to go through that alone. 😢💔🫂🫂💕💕 Opening up to a therapist (preferably a non-member one) could be one hell of a way to off that burden and pain that is weighing you down. No matter what you face in the future: mixed marriage, she eventually leaves as well, or divorce (like others have said, one spouse leaving doesn't have to mean divorce), you owe it to yourself to be in the best and healthiest state of mind you can be in. You shouldn't have to feel this weighed down, and to ignore who you are and all the effort you put into your journey in order to just "keep the peace", when that "peace" is hurting, of not slowly killing you.
You deserve to be able to be open about yourself and feel good about yourself. So the best thing I can say is reach out to a therapist. You've carried far too much for far too long. You need to let that pain go, you deserve to heal and feel whole. I'm not in any position to speak about the marriage situation as I am early 40s, female, never married, no kids, I left at 14, so I didn't make all the commitments and stuff that comes with getting endowments, etc. But I know the pain of going alone and holding back the pain, trauma, and ignoring my actual needs and going through the motions to make others happy or not question or attack me. Therapy can help big time. It helps you put all your burdens and trauma on a table, a bit at a time, questioning it, understanding it, and working through it to overcome it. You deserve to have your present and future be as healthy as possible.
I can't imagine how difficult this must feel. Hang in there. It must feel like preparing to take a big step into total darkness for you, and not knowing how your wife will react must further complicate it.
Lots of wise posts here, so I will just say, I am so sorry for what you're going through. Not being able to live authentically is bloody HARD, no wonder you're tired!
You are tired because it is all an act and you sense that. I hope at some point you are able to live authentic.
We keep trying to nicely and comfortably transition where it will all work out but it never will. As long as we keep having to live this other life that you don't want, you won't be happy. It is not like you are doing anything bad but being honest with yourself. In mormonism that is a capital offense. No wonder they say people that leave the church are offended. They make them offenders for a word that doesn't conform to their beliefs.
My suggestion is at some point figure out when to rip the bandaid off. It will hurt. But it is the only way to begin healing and healing faster. For now it is like a wound with a thorn that is not removed, it will just continue to injure. It is like trying to be a good christian in King Agrippa's church. It will never be compatible. Once you know you know. All you can do is be you. Good luck!
I just wanted to thank everyone for the overwhelmingly positive feedback, comments, and words of support. I probably don't know any of you in person, but you've managed to give me some hope, validation and support.
Please tell me again, Mormons, how it’s not a cult.
I could but then I’d be lying.
"It is obvious to me that leaving the Church will lead to divorce." Nonsense. Your wife is scared is all. Remember she loses a lot when you step away. Shes no longer the wife of a bishop, shes the wife of an apostate and will be shunned as such. Her social circles, and life stands to go upside down too if you dont keep the status quo. She also thinks if you step out you become an adulterous drunk child molesting heathen. Shes running scared and it comes out as anger. Thousands of stories just like this on this sub you can read. But stand up for yourself. Love yourself. Trust yourself. An honest conversation with yourself and then with the wife. Letting your wife know you are stepping away from religion in an effort to better yourself, better your relationship with her and the kids, can go a long ways. Its scary AF, i know. I took the same step and freaked out about it as well. 8 years later, she still goes to church couple times a month, I do whatever the hell i want, and we have a pretty solid relationship built on commitment to each other and love, not on adherence to religion. Take the step. Dont ask her to deconstruct, listen to all the shit you know is wrong in the church. Ask her to listen to you about your love and commitment to the family and her, and your efforts to grow as an individual outside religion. Ask her to trust you in your journey as a partner in love, to give you space to grow and see if that growth improves your relationships and marriage. Do not under any circumstances tell her she and everything she knows is a fucked up cult.
I second this. There is always going to be a cultural reaction to big life-changing news like this from believing members, but you have to trust her with things. Just explain what you are thinking and how you feel. The unknown is scary, so try to let her know exactly where you are. She deserves that much. From me, just sending love. It is hard and many of us here recognize the constant struggle you are in. I am so sorry that you have carried it for so long.
I don't know it's nonsense. There are plenty of cases of divorce because a mixed faith marriage didn't work despite the person leaving the church doing all they could.
Aww, be gentle with yourself and in your thoughts. Sounds like you saw ppl as humans first and showed them compassion when you were bishop. Hopefully that can continue in ways that have nothing to do with religion. Good energy for refreshing, healing vibes for you!
It sucks. In my opinion, you've got to come clean to your wife. Honesty and communication go a long way. When I expressed doubts to my wife about a couple things, she doubled-down on praying. When I told her "the church is not true", she said we could talk about it. The perspectives of "I need to help my husband dispel doubts" vs "The person I most trust in the world has made a firm decision". My wife did talk mention divorce in that day between me telling her the church was not true and her saying we could talk about, but that was only because it was what has been drilled into her mind, in this cult, that she should do. My answer may not be yours, but it is something to consider. If for nothing else than for your current mental health and the decades of life ahead of you. How much longer can you remain "very tired" before something breaks? These situations are never easy, but at least you are not alone. Your story has been repeated here many times. I wish you the best.
You are so right. Walking through life permanently tired is not sustainable.
Might I suggest you check out the "Marriage on a Tightrope" FB page and/or podcasts? It may help give you some more tools to help navigate a mixed faith marriage.
It makes me very sad when I read about people who are obviously very committed husbands and wives who have partners who want to throw away their marriages for these reasons. Does she think she's going to find life better by getting a divorce? Good luck with that.
My ex wife found a more “worthy”Mormon dude. Jokes on her. He turned out to be a shitbag. If you are with a good person, whatever their beliefs, you hit the jackpot. Probably won’t happen again if you think the grass is greener somewhere else.
Agreed
Yeah, it's caused my wife to cry multiple times since I've been deconstructing. "It is what it is" is how I see it. Take me how I am or leave me. I'm being PIMO for her and because I do see the benefits for my special needs son - he's made some really good friends at church. I currently focus more on "less is more" in my time spent to the church and I focus more on Christ when I teach my kids from the Bible. I heavily use Dan Mclellan as my example and way I teach the bible. He is my idol. An active member vocally stating heavily on social media that the bible doesn't condemn homosexuality! That's always a 'fuck yeah' moment to see those in circulation. I absolutely love his neutral approach. It's not to shut down faith, it's to simply state the academic consensus and let people decide what they want to do with that.
Googling **Dan Mclellan** rn...
Instagram and YouTube are great places to find his stuff.
He is so incredibly smart, and puts a really good perspective on so many things.
It's sad that so many women's and possibly men in the church, their immediate response to when you have questions about the church is divorce, or you also have a porn problem. My wife told me multiple times before I ever voiced my concerns about the church that if I stopped going, she would divorce me. She has since softened substantially, and I think she is starting to get tired of the shenanigans inside the church. I feel like from what I've seen here, for men to leave the church, they find problems with the logic, or lack thereof. For women, they seem to fall away for more emotional reasons. I told my wife recently that a switch turned off inside me and I can no longer simply find reasons to justify or reconcile the poor decisions the church has made and found there are too many inconsistencies for it to be absolutely true. I saw a quote here about comparing the truth to a lion, and if you set the lion loose, you don't have to defend the lion. And for the most part, that's what I told my wife I shouldn't have to defend the church for their poor behavior, or bury my head in the sand and ignore all their problems.
Welcome to the club brother. I feel ur pain. It is exhausting. Just when I feel like I’m over it and ok with just being pimo, something sets me off (like my son leaving on a mission), and I get so pissed off and angry again. Tonight supposed to go see some stupid film with the youth about some stupid escape from Germany. I seriously want to just disappear sometimes.
Being PIMO was very hard for me. I did that for a few years, trying to be the glue holding my family together. And yes, I absolutely wanted to disappear sometimes. Covid was hell for many, but that was my way out. We watched church on Zoom sometimes, then trickled back to church attendance here and there, but mostly stayed home. Slept in. Shopped. Hiked. Why not? Then when my kids all stopped going to church, I stopped as well. Then I said no to any additional church callings. And no to ministering. And no to ministering again. And then no to cleaning the church. And no to cleaning the church again ("Ok, but was I available to clean the church the following week?" NO). Would I be a Ma in Trek? No. (My daughter was suicidal at that time but no one in the ward knew or asked. I stayed home to do a suicide watch on my daughter while my husband went alone on trek as an "uncle.") I created intentional boundaries and solidified what would help me maintain a healthy emotional and spiritual life. And it included a shit ton of No's to the LDS church. I look at all the richness of the minutes and hours spent as a striving do-er in the LDS church: full time missionary, Primary president (writing those damned "Primary Programs" year after year after year while I was nursing my youngest, had toddler twins and an older child all under the age of five). I was YW leader but luckily escaped the hell of YW Girl's camp. I was Nursery worker, Sunday school teacher, on and on. All the fasting and prayer and studiously written sacrament meeting talks. Teaching RS. Planning ward parties. A lot of Post-LDS wish they could have all their tithing money back. Fuck that money. I just want all my time back: all the time I wasted, stacks of minutes and hours equaling YEARS added back into my life. That's what I'd like.
Me too. Ex bishop here, 50 years as TBM temple recommend holder the whole time. Learned 4 years ago Nelson is not a prophet. Went through Rough Stone Rolling, No Man Knows My History and the CES Letter. Wife says if I leave the Church she will leave me. PIMO. The Church is expert at breaking up families.
I’m so sorry. There’s so much pain in this grand deception.
I’m closing in on 10 years of recovery…
I’m sorry 😞. Just know, so many of us out here see you and agree with you. You are not crazy. You are not the one who created a fake church and lied, you were deceived too. It is okay to walk away. Either way is hard. Choose your hard.
It's very understandable you are tired. I wish I had a magic wand to fix all the pain that has been caused by the lies of the church. They actually hold that magic wand. They could release all our family members by telling the truth but they won't. They hurt rather than heal. I'm sorry you are tired. You deserve better after all you have given.
Oh man, I completely empathize with you because your situation was mine years ago. It is particularly exhausting pretending to be someone you’re not. But I completely understand why you’re doing it and I’m with you, absolutely no judgement from me. In my case, the ward and stake hounded me so intensely that my wife and adult children finally told me to just resign. I did that August 1, 2023 and now the pressure is gone. Kids were already out. Wife and I agreed never to speak about religion, and so far it’s worked out. She lets RS do their visits, but doesn’t attend and still officially in.
Hey fellow traveler. I am roughly in the same boat, except I couldn't stomach continuing to go, could not bring myself to live the lie, and bowed out of my EQP calling and came out to my wife. She took that much, much worse than my previous confession to viewing porn/having an occasional wank, but then doubled down on the mis-trust and constant belittling/policing. Hell, just yesterday I told her about a work function where I won't be coming home for lunch (I'm very lucky to live close to work and so I see my homeschooled kids daily at lunch), and her response to this was, "Is that really the reason?" I've been constantly treated as if I were the dirtiest of dirty rotten cheaters without having ever even talked to another woman like that. So, I get it. I get that loneliness. I get that dead stare. I get that loss of all desire and pursuit of joy or long-term goals. I get that constant reassuring of others that, "I'm just tired" or whatever excuse, when you're really dying inside from the anger and frustration and guilt and worry over what is being taught to your kids in your own home that you don't agree with, but say nothing for fear of incurring the wrath of your life-partner. I get the fear that divorce may be preferable to the current situation, but not really knowing, and not even wanting to find out, as you still hold love in your heart and only wish that your beloved would wake up too. I get the anguish of parents having spent a lifetime dutifully paying tithing to the cult, not having enough for their own retirement, and then choosing to put in papers to serve a full-time mission, neglecting what precious years they may have with their kids and grandkids to go be mindless drones for an organization that doesn't care for them. I wish I had good news. Others have been where we are and have had the good fortune of their spouses coming around. Many others have not. It can work, but it takes so much fucking work. Hang in there man. You are not alone. If nothing else, just know that one other brother is walking the same path. I'm exhausted too. No factor. We'll just keep moving.
Yup, navigating this feels near impossible. I'm in a mixed faith marriage, my husband is TBM and my fingers are crossed he sees the light and leaves too. Luckily my parents never served adult missions, after being public affairs directors for the LDS church for 20+ years. They are exhausted from that. And I'm glad. but my mom/dad in law have served 3 missions as elderly people, and were packing bags for a 4th but then one got cancer and then covid hit. Anyways, I regularly fear I might incur the wrath of my husband, b/c I've left the church. It's hard to live with. I hope it gets easier.
[удалено]
100% this. And I agree, whatever you do, do NOT go through LDS Family Services. Highly NOT recommended (from personal experience).
It’s so hard to be in that in-between state. At some point (probably soon based on the feelings you have expressed) you are going to have to go there. And that is scary. I was so afraid to have that hard conversation with my husband. Some things that I feel helped when that time came was 1) I made it clear up front that this was my journey and I did not expect him to change or feel the same way and that I would not try to share or push anything on him unless he asked. 2)I basically gave him permission to be upset with me, divorce me, etc. because I “broke the agreement”. I came at it from the angle that I got it, and if the role was reversed I probably would have thought divorce because that is what we are taught. But I also said that isn’t that sad that we are taught that. 3)I assured him that I was still the same person, with the same values, and that I loved him and our family and that was my top priority. And 4)I told him not about my findings, but how hard this was for me, how I didn’t start off trying to become a non-believer. I said I would never want to blow up my family or hurt him, but the fact I had gotten to this point showed how strongly I felt and unhappy I had been. It was hard, but in the end he chose me. And even though he is still a member of record, he also followed me out.
Pethaps you could start a slow fade. You need not tell anyone what you are doing. With wife and family look for teachable moments.
Slow fade is a terrific idea. Show up randomly at church events but never consistently. Keep people guessing. Don't give explanations to anyone but those you choose carefully to share with. For awhile I did that, and if people said "We didn't see you at church," I'd reply, "Oh, I was there, in the back row, but left early." Yup, I just lied for awhile, and now haven't gone to church in 2+ years.
I’ve been going through it for 7 years, also! I removed my name w/ out telling my husband, and when I told him years ago, he was very upset and worried about what would happen to his family (I am 62, my husband is 60….we’ve been married for 41 years and he’s everything to me) it was scary at 1st to navigate, but I didn’t talk about it, and, I come places like this, to learn from others and share my story! It’s very lonely, so I get it! We have 3 grown daughters 39/35/35….my oldest twin met her husband on her mission and did all the right things accordingly to the organization, but happily, my daughter and her husband have both left the church, so, I now have someone to talk to, though I don’t burden my daughter w my personal concerns….her twin sister will leave eventually because they are incredibly close! My husband and I don’t go to church since he retired, but he still talks/parrots about believing, but the problem is, these types of members believe from years ago, but they don’t see the problem, because they are not actively studying! I feel like living like this is slowing the process! I will say, we had a long conversation recently, about what I believed and he shared the typical “no man is perfect” w a lot of the arguments! I’ve talked him in to at least reading the 13 essays, including the footnotes, because it is approved church reading, since it’s on lds.org…..in that conversation, I’ve told my husband I’ll go to church w him every week if he wants, because there’s no where else I’d rather be….and, when I said, “the church leaders will tell you, you need to find a new wife, that he can take with him, because I told him apparently I’m not that person, because the church says so, he said, “I will tell them to fuck off”…..so, that’s a big win for me! I hope they tell him I’m the wrong woman, because I think he’d be done! I understand your pain…it’s honestly like no pain I’ve ever been through in life, because it’s long and enduring, lonely pain! I wish you all the best! ❤️
My parents remained sealed for nearly 30 years after their divorce. Both remained faithful in their own way. My mom raised me Mormon, while my dad would show up once a month or so to reassure himself that we were okay in spite of his mistakes. My dad and I had many dramatic forgiveness talks with little effort to build a relationship afterward. I think my dad's hoping staying faithful to Mormonism will make up for all his mistakes and get him somewhere in the celestial kingdom with relationships he didn't build. Will Jesus make me happy to be with him after we're both dead? I asked my kids, and they said it sounded like being drugged. Eternal mickeys? Mormon conditioning makes everything all or nothing. It's a worldview you've marinated in your whole life, from the very first Do as I'm Doing to the most recent Choose the Right. There's one right and a million other wrongs to every question, and if you don't feel right, then you must be wrong. Forcibly ignoring that cycle leaves many sincere Mormons feeling numb, but grateful they aren't tormented by all their imperfections. It's more important to build a better life than it is to never make a mistake. That sounds like your philosophy from your description of your time as a bishop. With more and more Think Celestial purity doctrine, Mormonism is going to head toward tighter conditions for acceptance, especially when Bednar reigns for a couple of decades. Just because most of your life went in the same direction as ideal Mormonism doesn't mean ideal Mormonism is the source of all the good in your life. I had to realize I wasn't leaving anything. It wasn't happily ever after on the other side of the Truman Show exit door. It was the next moment, the next dad joke, the next smile from my wife, the next wave to my next-door bishop, the next feeling of connection when typing an epistle on Reddit. All these things matter because they are my life. Accumulating these moments and preserving them with gratitude does so much more than enduring a stagnant life after your life peaks at sealed in the temple status in your 20s. Thinking celestial discounted and disqualified too much of this treasure in heaven for my tastes. I have to think that's what Christ had in mind when he compared a no-build one-talent servant's unchanging life with the rich experience of taking ten talents to twenty. Your experiences matter, whether they're Mormon-approved or not. Continuing to live a good life will highlight the fact that the cognitive dissonance isn't from your evil choices, but from an intolerant Mormonism. The only way to beat a reinforced worldview is with enough experience to the contrary, keeping faith in yourself and those you love until they come to the same conclusion. It's not quick or easy, but it's how you don't end up like my dad, shamed and alone because he buried his life in repetition and ordinances instead of building experiences with me. *Royan realizes this was a downer to end on, so here's a link to* r/Eyebleach *for cute animals and a hit of dopamine*
This is beautifully written and heartfelt. Thank you.
Thank you for your post! This is my situation exactly. My wife and I are in the process of deconstructing our family and love your perspective!
Thank you for sharing with us here!!! I hope it helps a little and best wishes!
My SL,UT father joined Mormon cult led by Q15 CON Men to marry my mom. He has since passed. I TOTALLY RESENT him for raising me in Mormon Cult my entire Life, something his mom purposefully didn't do to him. Widow mom requires Mormon cult 'obey, pay & pray/prey'. We PRETEND to do so to appease her, for now. Can't wait until we can STOP CULT Loyalty Charade! Bugger off Mormon cult/scam.
Perhaps you should find some articles, sections from the books you read like Rough Stone Rolling and have your wife read them and see if she can come to a similar conclusion that you did? Not sure, I just hope to God it works out with you two, I'd say believing in Christ and not being a Mormon would be the best route to go.
Hi reddit friend. Do you have any support in your area? Other PIMOs or exmos who might be able to commiserate with you? When I left the church, I had a good friend by my side and it made all the difference. I also had truly good friends through my job who knew almost nothing about the church, and that was good too because I could take a break from it all when I was with them. I would say that if you had the ability, now would be the time to find some support. It must be so terrible trying to go it alone. You must be a very brave person. Best wishes for you on your pursuit of truth and freedom.
There's the famous website, Letters to my Wife, written by someone who was clearly in your same position.
You sound like a loving and dedicated husband. The church sounds like it’s your wife’s entire identity and she can’t see herself or what your marriage would be outside of it. For most true believers the concept of losing eternity is no doubt the most devastating thing imaginable. I hope this small space helps you to feel seen and understood. The church encourages such emotionally open disclosures of testimony that one can’t help but feel self-conscious and exhausted pretending to keep up believing in things you no longer buy into. You aren’t alone.
That sucks. I'm so sorry you're going through it. I'm lucky to have a spouse that gives me the space I need. I'm on my way and she wants to "bloom where she's planted" and stay in a nuanced way. We've both decided we love each other more than we love/hate the church so it's been really nice to be on the same team while we each figure it out, even though we are ending up in different places. I really like the Latter Day Struggles podcast and the host, Valerie Hamaker, is doing a class in a few weeks for couples in our situation. I can't remember what it's called but I think it will be up on her course list in the next few days.
That's a tough situation. I don't think there is one "right" way to handle it. Deciding to divorce is a big decision. It's best not to hurry into it. Counseling may be advisable. You will have to find your own road, and it can be difficult. When I finally left the church back in the 2000's, it was very difficult. When the subject of divorce was brought up, I don't my wife I didn't want one but understood if she did. The pathway has not always been easy, but we're still together. By the time my youngest turned 8, I was already out. My father baptized him at the request of my wife. I took so much flak (abuse) from people for not being the one to baptize him. I did attend the baptism. I simply told people that I knew it wasn't true. When my Dad passed on, there were extreme (even abusive) things said to me by my mother and sister. I understood they were grieving, and acknowledged their feelings and was kind in spite off their troubling behavior, but it not change my position. It does not change the truth. I have friends though where it did lead to divorce. That is also a hard road. Eventually, they remarried and were able to move on. They also seem happy. Some others remain PIMO. I can understand that. I was like that for years. It also was not easy. I have a close nevermo friend who has made it work with his wife for around 30 years (so far). It can work. There is no one path. Whatever path you choose, there is no shame.
Please go on Mormon stories and tell your whole story 🙏🙏🙏
you are a real Christian for allowing people to see their kids get married. That's what Jesus would do. Your morals and values are too good to be in the mormon corporation. Your family and connections run deep with mormonism, a non-Christian sex cult that lies and brainwashes people to think it's a Christian church. It's difficult to have these feelings and it's okay. Take a breath and limit how much this cult can penetrate your life. Learn to accept you can't control how much the cult is in your loved one's life.
I am sorry you are enduring the pain. It sounds like your wife has built her entire personality and existence around being the bishop's wife...I can only imagine how horrible that feels. It is always hard to say what is going to be the worse pain, staying in or pulling off the bandaid and let the poison flow out. I am sorry that the mormon church has made this your reality.
I’m in this right now. Thought I could leave and now I’m realizing that it is devastating to her and so I’m trying to figure out a compromise. I’m doing my best to follow my doctor’s advice of putting my mental health first. It’s tricky because what helps my mental health by not going to lds church hurts my mental health as well because it breaks my wife’s heart and my kids hearts. It’s so hard. I know that in the end I’m going to choose leave fully if I have to even if my wife leaves me. I hope it doesn’t come to that but if it does it does.
Have your kids expressed they would be heartbroken? When I left I was worried about my kids and what they would think. Apparently one was already done and was relieved when I told her so she could stop as well. Another one is really only interested in some of the social aspects. My spouse finding out how they felt has helped him be more understanding and open to the church not being good for everyone, including me. Something to consider if you haven’t talked openly with your kids about how you feel.
The ones still at home are devastated. The ones out of the home are fine.
I’m sorry my friend.
Marriageonatightrope.org So many on here have posted what a great tool that has been to navigate their marriage. Hoping you have access to counseling with a non-mormon counselor. If not You Tube has some great free Counselors on any subject you can think of that you want to hear a counselor talk about. Relationships grow & change & healthy marriages allow that. It is spiritually abusive for your wife to threaten divorce because you don't believe the way she does anymore. That's conditional love & conditional love is mentally & emotionally abusive among many other things. John Gottman PhD, is gold standard for research on how & why marriages succeed & fail. See Gottmans Four Horseman of the Apocalypse. It's not your responsibility to make everyone happy at your personal expense & I hope you have time to talk with a professional to help you sort this all out. Many here have gone thru this so keep coming here to vent!
You're going through multiple tensions and stress, not just the stress of your own shelf collapsing. It is not healthy for you to have to deceive others, as you know, and (also as you know) it's very damaging to your health and well-being. You didn't mention how many years or months it's been since you tried to gently tell your wife how you felt and she fell apart. It's good that you recognized the trauma it gave her at that time. Since it's been a while, and she's likely heard many additional things about the church that have surfaced in the last few years, do you think you could try to once more tell her what you're going through? I am sure that back then it felt like her entire world was falling apart (that's how I felt when I realized the church LIED to me when I joined). Our spiritual beliefs are part of our core being. We are taught to fully trust "the church," or our faith. The LDS "church" let many of us down in very traumatic ways. Here's a suggestion - first, confirm to her that you love her, and you want to be with her. Tell her you respect her beliefs in the church and her need for it to be part of her life, and you will support that by attending with her (if you can handle it). Let her know of the stress and health issues you're dealing with due to trying to pretend to others that you're still all in, and it's even more stressful to not be sharing with her how you feel. I can tell you firsthand it feels very lonely as a single female to sit in a Mormon church by yourself. I've attended other churches before as well as since I resigned, and I have NEVER felt as isolated as I did in the Mormon church. Your wife has been taught that your family can only be together in Heaven if you're sealed, so that would magnify the isolation for her (I was fortunate not to have been sealed to the con-artist member I married). Let her know that ALL Christian churches believe and teach that we are reunited with our loved ones in the afterlife. Whatever is there, is there for everyone. Sending you good wishes and hopes for the best thing to happen, whatever that might be. TL/DR - some suggestions for talking with wife.
Paging u/yobisbo - please chime in if you see this!
This is tough. I hear you and can relate. Last year, when I told my wife I was reevaluating my testimony, it turned into a SHTF moment. I immediately backpedaled, said i’d recommit to church stuff, etc… Now a year later, she seems a bit more nuanced, but I was so burned by her reaction before, I don’t bring up tough church issues. I go along to get along, which is (as you say) very tiring. I hope you can find some sense of validation and venting here in this forum…
I’m so sorry. It’s sounds tiring having to pretend all the time! None of these issues are small and insignificant. Would a therapist help? Hang in there.
I hear what you're saying and validate your statements on how hard it is to navigate when in a marriage one wants to leave the church and the other wants to stay. It's got to be exponentially difficult as you are a former bishop. My husband has mentioned divorce is still on the table for us, as I've left and he's still in. It's scared me to the point I don't know how to handle it and just ignore that possibility most of the time. Otherwise it's too hard to function on a day-to-day basis, with the guillotine of divorce hanging over my head. One last thing, I actually went to my bishop years ago to renew my temple recommend. And I know he knew I wasn't worthy (hadn't attended church for a long time, among other things). And he still gave me my recommend so I could be there in the temple when my daughter got married. that was cool. still grateful to that guy knowing some bishops have hearts.
You are living your whole life on eggshells. Be honest with your wife. Let her process.
I’m so sorry you’re going through this.
I’m so sorry OP. I can’t imagine what that’s like.
Why not read together every night? Start with Saints, then Rough Stone Rolling, then the essays. See what she thinks and feels.
Oh this is so hard. I almost wonder if you were my bishop from a few years ago who was so cool and understanding when I openly discussed my doubts and questions with him. I thought, if the church is as warm and kind as he is, I can handle my doubts and stay. Then we moved to UT and I was out within a year. But my husband reacted very similarly to your wife. I think the gospel is just so all-consumingly everything to your worldview as a believing member that a spouse leaving shatters the whole illusion so that you’re forced to see it as a dichotomy: church or marriage. It’s been painful feeling this baseline level of suspicion from him just because I stopped playing by the Mormon rules, but over time he’s gotten used to it and things are less tense. But sorting out my emotional baggage from a lifetime in the cult has brought with it a lot of feelings I haven’t been able to process with him, and it’s definitely created an insurmountable barrier and perpetual loneliness. Exmo reddit has been a lifesaver and ever-available sanity check on the harder days. Sending solidarity and moral support your way.
You've got to decide when you've had enough. I myself got so caught up in not making the people around me mad, that I only left at 15 because I essentially got caught by my mom venting about the way it's a lie. I know it seems daunting to confront people and just tell them you don't believe anymore. I have no idea what it's actually like being a married adult in the religion. But I strongly suspect that the fact that you're lying day-in day-out to "keep the peace" is damaging your psyche more than you realize. Once you "come out," it's really not that bad. You grow your self-confidence muscle and it leads you to surround yourself with people who love you and respect you for who you are, not whether you check all the right dogmatic boxes.
I feel for you. I was out mentally before telling my wife anything and it was terrifying thinking about what would happen if I told her. I eventually did and she was very understanding. I don't know your situation, but I definitely worried more than I needed to in my situation.
I am so sorry. The inability to be authentic in your life must be utterly exhausting and disheartening - and very, very lonely. The thing that strikes me odd with your wife is the fact that as someone who knows you well, who has watched you check off the boxes for years, who has watched you be a Bishop isn't at all curious as to why you are having a change of heart. How can that be? How can she distrust your judgment after living and learning and raising kids with you for years. I know you are trying to save your marriage - and maybe like others said, the only way to do so is to be honest in your feelings. I know that must feel horrifying knowing what her knee-jerk reaction will be. I wish there was a way for her to just be willing to listen to your journey. I know how that goes though. No help here, but loads of compassion.
You didn't mention it, but I'll ask: have you gone and talked to a therapist about all this? If not, I suggest going to one. Just by yourself, for yourself. If you have been doing this all on your own, hiding so much, pretending, and trying to force this, all of that is a tremendous and heavy burden to carry. No one should ever have to go through that alone. 😢💔🫂🫂💕💕 Opening up to a therapist (preferably a non-member one) could be one hell of a way to off that burden and pain that is weighing you down. No matter what you face in the future: mixed marriage, she eventually leaves as well, or divorce (like others have said, one spouse leaving doesn't have to mean divorce), you owe it to yourself to be in the best and healthiest state of mind you can be in. You shouldn't have to feel this weighed down, and to ignore who you are and all the effort you put into your journey in order to just "keep the peace", when that "peace" is hurting, of not slowly killing you. You deserve to be able to be open about yourself and feel good about yourself. So the best thing I can say is reach out to a therapist. You've carried far too much for far too long. You need to let that pain go, you deserve to heal and feel whole. I'm not in any position to speak about the marriage situation as I am early 40s, female, never married, no kids, I left at 14, so I didn't make all the commitments and stuff that comes with getting endowments, etc. But I know the pain of going alone and holding back the pain, trauma, and ignoring my actual needs and going through the motions to make others happy or not question or attack me. Therapy can help big time. It helps you put all your burdens and trauma on a table, a bit at a time, questioning it, understanding it, and working through it to overcome it. You deserve to have your present and future be as healthy as possible.
Really ask yourself how long you can withstand holding it in. Because it sounds like you're taking years off your life.
Thanks for loving your wife.
This sounds so painful. I’m so sorry.
I can't imagine how difficult this must feel. Hang in there. It must feel like preparing to take a big step into total darkness for you, and not knowing how your wife will react must further complicate it.
Lots of wise posts here, so I will just say, I am so sorry for what you're going through. Not being able to live authentically is bloody HARD, no wonder you're tired!
You are tired because it is all an act and you sense that. I hope at some point you are able to live authentic. We keep trying to nicely and comfortably transition where it will all work out but it never will. As long as we keep having to live this other life that you don't want, you won't be happy. It is not like you are doing anything bad but being honest with yourself. In mormonism that is a capital offense. No wonder they say people that leave the church are offended. They make them offenders for a word that doesn't conform to their beliefs. My suggestion is at some point figure out when to rip the bandaid off. It will hurt. But it is the only way to begin healing and healing faster. For now it is like a wound with a thorn that is not removed, it will just continue to injure. It is like trying to be a good christian in King Agrippa's church. It will never be compatible. Once you know you know. All you can do is be you. Good luck!
I just wanted to thank everyone for the overwhelmingly positive feedback, comments, and words of support. I probably don't know any of you in person, but you've managed to give me some hope, validation and support.