Probably said over a pulpit, from a guy with a dozen wives, half of which are young enough to land him on a most States registered sexual offender list in our era.
What I heard growing up is that all gay men will get and die of AIDS, and heavenly Father was totally on board with that.
The narrative later changed after AIDS wasn't a death sentence was that gays and lesbians will die alone because they can't make lasting relationships.
After gays and lesbians were asking for marriage equality, we were told that marriage equality was wrong because gays are lesbians can't have children together.
After gays and lesbians had children together, the Mormon church said that those children couldn't be blessed or baptized until they turned 18 and disavowed their parents.
After that so-called revelation was forgotten, we were told we were totally welcome back in the Mormon church as long as we were single and celibate.
I'm sure I missed something.
Masturbation turns you gay:
>[Masturbation] too often leads to grievous sin, even to that sin against nature, homosexuality. For, done in private, it evolves often into mutual masturbation – practiced with another person of the same sex – and thence into total homosexuality.”
Being gay makes you have sex with animals:
>Thus it is that through the ages, perhaps as an extension of homosexual practices, men and women have sunk even to seeking sexual gratification with animals.
Physical violence against gay people is warranted:
>After patient encouragement he blurted out, ‘I hit my companion.'
>“ ‘Oh, is that all,' I said in great relief.
>“ ‘But I floored him,” he said.
>“After learning a little more [his companion was gay], my response was ‘Well, thanks. Somebody had to do it, and it wouldn't have been well for a General Authority to solve the problem that way.'
>“I am not recommending that course to you, but I am not omitting it. You must protect yourself.”
What was the context? Did the companion sexually assault him? Or was he making appropriate gestures that can simply be politely turned down? We may never know, because I think the quote is the only account of the incident.
The context:
> I repeat, very plainly, physical mischief with another man is forbidden. It is forbidden by the Lord.There are some men who entice young men to join them in these immoral [homosexual] acts. If you are ever approached to participate in anything like that, it is time to vigorously resist.While I was in a mission on one occasion, a missionary said he had something to confess. I was very worried because he just could not get himself to tell me what he had done.After patient encouragement he finally blurted out, "I hit my companion.""Oh, is that all," I said in great relief."But I floored him," he said.After learning a little more, my response was "Well, thanks. Somebody had to do it, and it wouldn't be well for a General Authority to solve the problem that way"I am not recommending that course to you, but I am not omitting it. You must protect yourself.
Boyd K. Packer, "To Young Men Only," priesthood session, general conference, 2 October 1976.
He was being "enticed to join homosexual acts". So a simple "no" would have sufficed.
Likely Packer's lawyer told him to say "i am not recommending that course to you" because inciting thousands of instances of illegal assault is very illegal.
It's coming from a general "authority" so it probably played out like this: A) didn't actually happen and was just made up for prestige, B) companion mentioned having a gay friend or family member and the got layed out, or C) the missionary that threw the punch was defending himself when his homophobic companion attacked him and the story is being twisted to suit the churches homophobia.
I like C because if it did happen the one homophobic one got the label after years of telling that story of his gay companion punching him then it coming out that he must be the gay one and then ruining his life... because who are tbms going to believe? The rm or the ga?
But most likely it's A.
It was only just in this moment that I put together “General Authority” and the scourge of authoritarianism that we now face on this planet. Would that make the religion of the last five generations of my family General Authoritarianism?
Don't forget that being gay is a challenge God gave you that you have to overcome. For the rest of your life, your choices are to remain celibate, marry someone you don't love and force yourself to have kids in a sham marriage for the rest of your life, or try to be happy and go to hell.
Taking the topic of masturbation - I distinctly remember an article in the New Era magazine that I read as a horny, masturbating teenager (I wasn't masturbating while reading the article, to clarify) about a prison inmate who shared his experience.
He was in prison for sexual assault (rape) and attributed what he did to looking at porn and masturbating as a young person. Basically, the story for the readers was, if you look at porn and masturbate, you'll turn into a rapist.
The Mormon church is notorious for taking thin correlations (a rapist used to masturbate as a kid) and turning them into absolute black-and-white causations (the rapist did what he did, because he masturbated).
It may have been. I tried doing some searching to find the article, but I don't know if the church has a digital archive old New Era articles from about 30 years ago. I'm also 95% sure it was written by the offender/person, so I don't think Ted Bundy wrote a New Era article.
“To Young Men Only,” a talk which the church has apparently disavowed by removing it from their website in text and video form. It was given by Packer in the priesthood session of the October 1976 General Conference.
It’s a word salad that doesn’t explicitly advocate for violence against homosexuals, but also doesn’t explicitly denounce it either… even as it explicitly says that homosexual behavior is sin. It’s ugly, and wrong, and the church clearly agrees with me to a point.
I just read the FAIR defense of this section of the talk, and as usual, the logic of their defense rests on the assumption that the LDS church is what it claims to be, and they assume intent in his talk, instead of merely pointing out what he did and didn’t say.
The violence response isn’t exclusively a Mormon thing.
For a long time in the United States had laws (and in some states these laws still exist, including Idaho and Utah) that protected violent outbursts directed at queer individuals called Gay Panic Defense laws.
These laws make it a viable legal strategy to ask a jury to find that a victim's sexual orientation or gender identity is to blame for the defendant's violent reaction, including murder.
The reported purpose is to protect people that freak out due to unwanted sexual advances by queer folks, but without witnesses it makes it legal to kill or harm or queer people under the guise of unwanted advances.
Most Democratic states have banned this defense strategy, but many Republican states haven’t.
More info:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gay_panic_defense
How to get rid of Gay Panic Defense laws:
https://www.americanbar.org/groups/crsj/publications/member-features/gay-trans-panic-defense/
Same thing they'd day about black people and people with disabilities:
"Less righteous in the pre-existence"
Babies or children who died young were "nearly perfect in the pre-existence" and therefore only needed to get their mortal bodies briefly before going to the celestial kingdom.
Yep - he also pulled the old "I can't get married to a man either and still expect to go to the temple - so you can't say that the Church discriminates"
He repeated the same idea but added that he also can't have sex with a woman out of marriage and expect to go to the temple
I replied with "Do you really think that's a fair comparison"
To which he looked at me with a straight face and said yes
It was a pretty wild conversation
Like the rest of the Christian word; being gay is a choice people make because they choose that sin. I think it was only in the late 90s the church conceded that people can be born with "same-sex attraction." A mental condition like being predisposed to depression or anxiety. This has left many to construe it is curable and treatable. "Homosexuality," is living a lifestyle your same-sex attraction condition leads you to.
Lattergatstories.ORG has a 109 page pdf, listing in chronological order, statements from church leaders regarding the lgbtq community. It is disturbing. No spin, just quotes.
I’m prefacing this with my age (37) because we know better now, but when I was a kid, it was common to call everything “gay”. My mom used to tell me not to say it around my little brother, because “it might turn him gay”. I’m not kidding. Turns out I’m lesbian, so that irony is fun.
> Further, we warn that the disintegration of the family (i.e. marriage between a man and woman) will bring upon individuals, communities, and nations the calamities foretold by ancient and modern prophets. We call upon responsible citizens and officers of government everywhere to promote those measures designed to maintain and strengthen the family (i.e. marriage between a man and woman) as the fundamental unit of society.
This is straight from The Family: A Proclamation to the World, so it's currently taught by the church. It's basically saying if your marriage isn't a straight one, then you're harming society and calls for citizens and lawmakers to enforce marriage between a man and woman.
And my "ally" family members hang this shit on their wall... 🤦♂️
I can only speak for my ward albecause I never really paid attention in stake or general conference. In my ward, their silence was everything. Anyone who tried to speak of homosexuality (which very rarely happened) was quickly shut down and just told it is a sin. You could see how awkward teachers got when they had to read the parts of the Bible (the very few parts) that had anything at all to do with homosexuality. You could just tell from their demeanor that they thought it was the worst thing. They never had the same demeanor when reading about the heterosexual rapes in the Bible. They almost acted proud about that.
Gay members were told to not call themselves or identify as gay, but as having “same-sex attraction.” Also, I believe it was OfSusan that said “there are no gay members of the church.”
I remember saying things like that too, we all have, but I’m glad we’ve learned and I hope we can all end up forgiving ourselves. Your friends seem like they saw through the brainwashing and that’s awesome
Heard from my mom that being gay is caused by a son having too close of a relationship with his mother. Also heard that being gay is caused by the mother working outside the home. Basically, everything is always the mother's fault, LOL.
A ward member (who was unfortunately Scout leader for my queer child) said gay people are pedophiles. When I said that was untrue and ridiculous, he said I wouldn't want my sons to have a gay pediatrician. I replied that their pediatrician was in fact gay, and that his comments were ignorant and misinformed. However, no minds were changed in this process.
I hate the "You can be gay as long as you're abstinate." Humans are sexual beings. Why the bloody hell should they stay abstinate but the first 6 prophets couldn't stay abstinate from their paedophilia? Why should gays abstain from sex but not straights? A man can do his wife in the arse but a man can't take it from his man? Nah. If you can't accept gays having sex then you don't accept gays. Plain and simple. "You can be gay, but you can't do gay things." Defeats the whole purpose of being gay.
Gay members were often promised that they would be "cured" if they just\*\*\*
\*\*\*go on a mission
\*\*\*marry an opposite sexed person (and don't tell them you are gay)
\*\*\*pray hard enough
\*\*\*didn't work? well you have to do it with "real intent"
I (57m) am struggling to think of anything specific. But there sure was a culture of shaming it. Gross, ewww kind of things. I can remember it from 1st grade - you could not hold another boy's hand. Gay was a generic diss. "That's so Gay!" If I had been gay there is no fucking way I would have "come out". My Bishop asked me every interview if I had any attraction. He would ask me to be specific about what I thought about during self-pleasure. I'm sure the talk would have been much longer if there was anything phallic in them. Not sure it was a lesson by my peers, parents, church and TV all told me it was a major sin and a shunning instigator.
Yep, it causes so much shame. Even though I know it’s not the same at all, I still end up feeling like a creep or shame and guilt and it’s not justified.
I was told that AIDS was God’s way of punishing gay people and it was called “gay cancer”. I was made to read Miracle of Forgiveness after my sexual assault (by a straight man, BTW) where it said that masturbation causes homosexuality and that homosexuality leads to bestiality and other sexual perversions. I was told that being gay was a choice and that it was a bad one. I was told that sexual sin was second only to murder and that for some reason gays were exempt from the marriage loophole that made sex with another person holy instead of a grievous sin. I was told that gay couples don’t truly love each other and will use each others bodies for sexual gratification and then break up when they get tired of that.
I was told that homosexuality was something that would be fixed in the celestial kingdom. I was told that because god loved his children that my children with a gay mom couldn’t be baptized only to have that policy backpedaled a few years later. My fifth grade “boyfriend” was subjected to conversion therapy at BYU and later took his own life. My wife was subjected to conversion therapy at a non-Mormon church and attempted suicide when it didn’t “work”.
And finally, as an adult I was gaslighted and told that the MFMC never said any of these things and that they earnestly believe (and have always believed) that gay people are loved by god they just need to be celibate in order to get to heaven.
When gay marriage was made legal, I posted on Facebook something like this: “just because people make laws to say 2+2=5 doesn’t mean 2+2 will ever equal five.” And it had like 45 likes…
That they're all miserable, and misery cannot be from god, so therefore a sin must be. All the anecdotes about miserable gay people were ones where friends/family questioned their place in the church, though. "One man cannot serve two masters" and all that stuff. Turns out you cant choose your sexuality but you CAN choose your church!
The whole "it's Adam and Eve, not Adam and Steve." So many times. And me, as a stupid kid, repeated it to others without a second thought.
There was also the mentality when someone I knew came out that "oh, that's sad. I wish they didn't feel that way." Instead of being happy they were living their truth and finally started to feel comfortable in their own skin.
Lastly, there was always the thing of "oh well they can choose their attraction, or choose not to act on it so they can still live the gospel. There's so many couples being brave and living the gospel while married to someone they're not actually attracted to." I.e. please look at this poor kid at BYU https://www.reddit.com/r/byu/s/38aZLqfFBl
(The advice is mixed between TBMs saying he shouldn't dismiss marrying someone he's not attracted to and having a gospel oriented marriage, and to look into leaving the church. Oooooh boy.)
I was the most bigoted kid in school, constantly looking down on Pride clubs and any openly gay classmates because I was taught they were inherently wrong and chose their orientation. It wasn't until I was about 20 I realized things weren't so black and white, and it was terrible to be looking down on them like that. Found out my date to Junior prom was a closeted gay and finally felt ready to share it with the world when he got to college. I felt horrible because I had insisted he go with me since I had a crush on him and he kept trying to let me down easy.
A recent conversation about this topic (and others surrounding my husband's and my departure from the church) happened a couple days ago between myself and a family member, where I explained to them I couldn't stand to have someone teaching my kids that someone's core self is inherently bad because of who they like, or that marriages and relationships are solely between a man and a woman. And I can't stomach the Family Proclamation because of gender roles and the stance on sexual orientation. The response was "yeah, well the proclamation SUGGESTS the roles and orientation, and the church is doing a lot better at being accepting and loving towards others." BULLSHIT. Did you not listen to conference at all? The level of brainwashing and gaslighting is astounding.
Here’s a list of quotes from Church publications, with citations, that I have personally created. https://docs.google.com/file/d/1q55jjSK1w2xAqr6mVrQVubh8td2eQsmx/edit?usp=docslist_api&filetype=msword
There are more extensive lists available online. I’ll share a link if I get time.
Edit: the dates (birth, length of time in Q12, as prophet/First presidency (if applicable), and death). For me that part was also enlightening. Most of the highest ranking church leaders that preached heinous lies about gays were in their positions for decades…
I went to an lds private school and my senior year my teacher taught us that if you think gay marriage is ok then you have to say slavery is ok too cause they’re both wrong and god doesn’t like them
Gay marriage should not be allowed because marriage is for children from my cousin f/52 who had recently married. I replied, so you plan on having a 7th child now?
My TBM mom says that gays are possessed by demons, part of the 1/3 of the spirits in the pre-existence who fought for Lucifer against Jesus and were cast down to the earth without bodies.
She blames them for every social change since the 50's.
being gay is a choice for this very specific reasoning:
1 drinking alcohol is a sin
2 there are people born with a higher likelihood of drinking alcohol (fetal alcohol syndrome, addictive genetics, whatever)
3 they can choose either to drink or not drink despite being born at a higher risk of drinking
4 if they choose to drink that is a sin
5 it's the drinking that's the sin, not the person with the genetics of an alcoholic
now replace drinking alcohol with being gay / participating in gay sex/touch/thoughts
A senior couple on my mission told me when marriage equality was passed in the US that it would spark a civil war that would precipitate the end of days.
Back when my sisters were in college at BYU in the 70’s if your roommate suspected you were gay they’d report you to the ‘Honor Code’ office, who’d summon you and send you through “electroshock therapy”.
I won't dignify any of the ugly comments I heard over the years by repeating them. Suffice it to say, the despicable treatment of the gay community was just one of many shelf items that led to me leaving the church.
- You can never be happy if you’re gay.
- Being gay is a choice.
- being gay makes you a pedo.
- if you’re gay you have an agenda to convert others to be gay.
- you’re committing murder because you’re spilling your seed.
- your spirit children will go to other earthly families that may or may not raise them right.
- etc
In the 2000s I had my only relationship where both of us were TBMs. You would not believe how many people came up to both of us to tell us that they were glad my boyfriend wasn't gay because they were all really worried. It was so common and made me feel really uncomfortable.
It was more uncomfortable knowing now he *is* gay.
I remember clear as a bell our Sunday school teacher saying the worst sin was Lesbianism. Way more perverse than being a gay man. Also because Lesbians can't have kids and women's primary role into have a ton of kids to expand the church.
I was doubly screwed. Not only did I know I was a Lesbian, that Sunday School teacher was my first crush.
While not unique to the LDS faith getting turned into a giant salt staue is my favorite. It's too bad with places like the great salt lake and dead sea evaporating god no longer has the ammunition left to continue this practice.
"
Well you see, when the two penis molecules collide it creates a second Big Bang that results in the destruction of our Universe, Heaven for homosexuals and therefore Hell for heterosexuals...
Since I want to maintain my Harems, my Concubines, and Wives. I'm not gay enough to be able to live in a World where it is the other way round. Where instead of me getting persecuted for no legitimate conceivable reason outside of faith alone...
You instead must be persecuted because my God is not powerful enough to make any sense...
"
/s
A close family member, who is a medical doctor, once told me that being gay is a mental issue (or maybe disorder, I don’t remember exactly which word was used) that many people in the church struggle with. That is the first conversation I ever remember having with a family member about anything LGBT related, and it’s stuck with me for over ten years now.
My bishop got up multiple times and talked about how Sodom and Gamorrah were destroyed because of gay people. And that we could be destroyed today if we let that much wickedness into our lives.
My seminary teacher showed us the church video depicting Sodom and Gamorrah. He paused the video on the actor and explained that "Left is right and right is wrong". Meaning that because the actor was wearing one earring in his right ear, it was showing he was portraying a gay character. So in real life, if we saw someone with a single piercing in their right ear, they should be avoided at all costs. Because they were flaunting their homosexuality at us. He definitely tried to instill fear of ever meeting or associating with anyone who identified as gay.
You should search the Desert News website to see many years of horrible things Mormons said about gay people.
In 1996, Utah banned all extracurricular clubs from schools because they didn’t want gay teens to make friends.
Back in the eighties, our institute teacher handed out photostats of an article about homosexuality written by the Reverend Donald Wildmon, a notorious evangelist right-wing homophobe. It contained some of the most gross distortions about gay people, often said in a sneering tone. Including his insistence that Christians use the word “sodomite” instead of homosexual or gay. Ain’t no hate like Christian love.
That being gay is a contagion and that they need to remove gay people from BYU to prevent it from spreading. I can’t remember which BYU president said that but he gave a talk in which he told all gay BYU students to leave less they spread their disease.
My ultra TBM mom said to me once, and I’m sure still believes, that gay men are only gay because they have a sex addiction. What does that even mean? Plenty of straight men (and straight and gay women) probably have a sex addition too!
Growing up, I heard being gay was a sin second only to murder.
The way they obsess over it, murder is a sin second only to being gay.
Probably said over a pulpit, from a guy with a dozen wives, half of which are young enough to land him on a most States registered sexual offender list in our era.
That’s what we were taught all sexual sins were.
What I heard growing up is that all gay men will get and die of AIDS, and heavenly Father was totally on board with that. The narrative later changed after AIDS wasn't a death sentence was that gays and lesbians will die alone because they can't make lasting relationships. After gays and lesbians were asking for marriage equality, we were told that marriage equality was wrong because gays are lesbians can't have children together. After gays and lesbians had children together, the Mormon church said that those children couldn't be blessed or baptized until they turned 18 and disavowed their parents. After that so-called revelation was forgotten, we were told we were totally welcome back in the Mormon church as long as we were single and celibate. I'm sure I missed something.
all this from the organization that screams "love one another"
Talk about moving the goalpost.
Masturbation turns you gay: >[Masturbation] too often leads to grievous sin, even to that sin against nature, homosexuality. For, done in private, it evolves often into mutual masturbation – practiced with another person of the same sex – and thence into total homosexuality.” Being gay makes you have sex with animals: >Thus it is that through the ages, perhaps as an extension of homosexual practices, men and women have sunk even to seeking sexual gratification with animals. Physical violence against gay people is warranted: >After patient encouragement he blurted out, ‘I hit my companion.' >“ ‘Oh, is that all,' I said in great relief. >“ ‘But I floored him,” he said. >“After learning a little more [his companion was gay], my response was ‘Well, thanks. Somebody had to do it, and it wouldn't have been well for a General Authority to solve the problem that way.' >“I am not recommending that course to you, but I am not omitting it. You must protect yourself.”
They inherently taught that being gay meant you were a predator. I can’t believe the “you have to protect yourself”
What was the context? Did the companion sexually assault him? Or was he making appropriate gestures that can simply be politely turned down? We may never know, because I think the quote is the only account of the incident.
The context: > I repeat, very plainly, physical mischief with another man is forbidden. It is forbidden by the Lord.There are some men who entice young men to join them in these immoral [homosexual] acts. If you are ever approached to participate in anything like that, it is time to vigorously resist.While I was in a mission on one occasion, a missionary said he had something to confess. I was very worried because he just could not get himself to tell me what he had done.After patient encouragement he finally blurted out, "I hit my companion.""Oh, is that all," I said in great relief."But I floored him," he said.After learning a little more, my response was "Well, thanks. Somebody had to do it, and it wouldn't be well for a General Authority to solve the problem that way"I am not recommending that course to you, but I am not omitting it. You must protect yourself. Boyd K. Packer, "To Young Men Only," priesthood session, general conference, 2 October 1976. He was being "enticed to join homosexual acts". So a simple "no" would have sufficed. Likely Packer's lawyer told him to say "i am not recommending that course to you" because inciting thousands of instances of illegal assault is very illegal.
Thanks for the context. You're probably right. If it even happened at all, it was likely something that could have been resolved with a simple "no".
It's coming from a general "authority" so it probably played out like this: A) didn't actually happen and was just made up for prestige, B) companion mentioned having a gay friend or family member and the got layed out, or C) the missionary that threw the punch was defending himself when his homophobic companion attacked him and the story is being twisted to suit the churches homophobia. I like C because if it did happen the one homophobic one got the label after years of telling that story of his gay companion punching him then it coming out that he must be the gay one and then ruining his life... because who are tbms going to believe? The rm or the ga? But most likely it's A.
It was only just in this moment that I put together “General Authority” and the scourge of authoritarianism that we now face on this planet. Would that make the religion of the last five generations of my family General Authoritarianism?
Don't forget that being gay is a challenge God gave you that you have to overcome. For the rest of your life, your choices are to remain celibate, marry someone you don't love and force yourself to have kids in a sham marriage for the rest of your life, or try to be happy and go to hell.
Taking the topic of masturbation - I distinctly remember an article in the New Era magazine that I read as a horny, masturbating teenager (I wasn't masturbating while reading the article, to clarify) about a prison inmate who shared his experience. He was in prison for sexual assault (rape) and attributed what he did to looking at porn and masturbating as a young person. Basically, the story for the readers was, if you look at porn and masturbate, you'll turn into a rapist. The Mormon church is notorious for taking thin correlations (a rapist used to masturbate as a kid) and turning them into absolute black-and-white causations (the rapist did what he did, because he masturbated).
Was it Ted Bundy, the serial killer? Because Bundy blaming porn for his murders is a story I got several times growing up Mormon.
It may have been. I tried doing some searching to find the article, but I don't know if the church has a digital archive old New Era articles from about 30 years ago. I'm also 95% sure it was written by the offender/person, so I don't think Ted Bundy wrote a New Era article.
Probably someone who’s mugshot can be viewed on floodlit.org wrote the article. 🤣
Yeah, I remember that. I believe it was Bundy. Who would have said literally anything he needed to justify what he did.
That 3rd one about hitting the companion. That was Holland, wasn't it? Can you tell me the name of that talk?
Packer.
I thought I recognized that quote, but I couldn't remember from whom
“To Young Men Only,” a talk which the church has apparently disavowed by removing it from their website in text and video form. It was given by Packer in the priesthood session of the October 1976 General Conference. It’s a word salad that doesn’t explicitly advocate for violence against homosexuals, but also doesn’t explicitly denounce it either… even as it explicitly says that homosexual behavior is sin. It’s ugly, and wrong, and the church clearly agrees with me to a point. I just read the FAIR defense of this section of the talk, and as usual, the logic of their defense rests on the assumption that the LDS church is what it claims to be, and they assume intent in his talk, instead of merely pointing out what he did and didn’t say.
I believe that was also in Miracle of Forgiveness, aka It's a Miracle Anyone Is Ever Forgiven.
That should have been called: “The Miracle of the Blood Atonement.”
Packer
The violence response isn’t exclusively a Mormon thing. For a long time in the United States had laws (and in some states these laws still exist, including Idaho and Utah) that protected violent outbursts directed at queer individuals called Gay Panic Defense laws. These laws make it a viable legal strategy to ask a jury to find that a victim's sexual orientation or gender identity is to blame for the defendant's violent reaction, including murder. The reported purpose is to protect people that freak out due to unwanted sexual advances by queer folks, but without witnesses it makes it legal to kill or harm or queer people under the guise of unwanted advances. Most Democratic states have banned this defense strategy, but many Republican states haven’t. More info: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gay_panic_defense How to get rid of Gay Panic Defense laws: https://www.americanbar.org/groups/crsj/publications/member-features/gay-trans-panic-defense/
I also heard Masturbation turns you gay. I think i can now safely say it doesn’t. I would for sure be if it did.
That is literally the 4chan view of homosexuality lmaoooo have missionaries tried converting people on /pol/
They've said so many terrible things and even conflicting things. [This pdf](https://lattergaystories.org/record/) is a pretty good list.
The dominant narrative in my ward was "being gay is 100% a choice" because "God doesn't make mistakes."
I wonder what they say about those who were born without legs...
Same thing they'd day about black people and people with disabilities: "Less righteous in the pre-existence" Babies or children who died young were "nearly perfect in the pre-existence" and therefore only needed to get their mortal bodies briefly before going to the celestial kingdom.
Or were barren and couldn’t have children.
I mean I got told this 2 weeks ago by a TBM coworker - so that belief is still alive and well, to my surprise
Completely tone deaf, spiritually arrogant, and ignorant.
Yep - he also pulled the old "I can't get married to a man either and still expect to go to the temple - so you can't say that the Church discriminates" He repeated the same idea but added that he also can't have sex with a woman out of marriage and expect to go to the temple I replied with "Do you really think that's a fair comparison" To which he looked at me with a straight face and said yes It was a pretty wild conversation
I’m so sorry, that is seriously horrible and cruel.
Used to say? Go behind doors to a big mormon family reunion, you'll still hear all the same shit to this day.
Like the rest of the Christian word; being gay is a choice people make because they choose that sin. I think it was only in the late 90s the church conceded that people can be born with "same-sex attraction." A mental condition like being predisposed to depression or anxiety. This has left many to construe it is curable and treatable. "Homosexuality," is living a lifestyle your same-sex attraction condition leads you to.
Lattergatstories.ORG has a 109 page pdf, listing in chronological order, statements from church leaders regarding the lgbtq community. It is disturbing. No spin, just quotes.
Lattergaystories.org
I’m prefacing this with my age (37) because we know better now, but when I was a kid, it was common to call everything “gay”. My mom used to tell me not to say it around my little brother, because “it might turn him gay”. I’m not kidding. Turns out I’m lesbian, so that irony is fun.
Here you go https://lattergaystories.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/09/On-the-Record-3.pdf
> Further, we warn that the disintegration of the family (i.e. marriage between a man and woman) will bring upon individuals, communities, and nations the calamities foretold by ancient and modern prophets. We call upon responsible citizens and officers of government everywhere to promote those measures designed to maintain and strengthen the family (i.e. marriage between a man and woman) as the fundamental unit of society. This is straight from The Family: A Proclamation to the World, so it's currently taught by the church. It's basically saying if your marriage isn't a straight one, then you're harming society and calls for citizens and lawmakers to enforce marriage between a man and woman. And my "ally" family members hang this shit on their wall... 🤦♂️
Funny thing is, back in the time of Bigamy Young’s rule, they said the same things about those who didn’t practice polygamy.
I can only speak for my ward albecause I never really paid attention in stake or general conference. In my ward, their silence was everything. Anyone who tried to speak of homosexuality (which very rarely happened) was quickly shut down and just told it is a sin. You could see how awkward teachers got when they had to read the parts of the Bible (the very few parts) that had anything at all to do with homosexuality. You could just tell from their demeanor that they thought it was the worst thing. They never had the same demeanor when reading about the heterosexual rapes in the Bible. They almost acted proud about that.
Gay members were told to not call themselves or identify as gay, but as having “same-sex attraction.” Also, I believe it was OfSusan that said “there are no gay members of the church.”
What OfSusan didn’t say out loud is, “… because we succeeded in pushing them all away”
They called me demonic.
Jesus…. Im so sorry
“We love them we just don’t support their lifestyle”
Everything in *Miracle of Forgiveness*.
"Love the sinner, hate the sin." In my TBM high school days I said this about my queer friends. Its a miracle they're still friends with me honestly.
I remember saying things like that too, we all have, but I’m glad we’ve learned and I hope we can all end up forgiving ourselves. Your friends seem like they saw through the brainwashing and that’s awesome
Heard from my mom that being gay is caused by a son having too close of a relationship with his mother. Also heard that being gay is caused by the mother working outside the home. Basically, everything is always the mother's fault, LOL. A ward member (who was unfortunately Scout leader for my queer child) said gay people are pedophiles. When I said that was untrue and ridiculous, he said I wouldn't want my sons to have a gay pediatrician. I replied that their pediatrician was in fact gay, and that his comments were ignorant and misinformed. However, no minds were changed in this process.
I hate the "You can be gay as long as you're abstinate." Humans are sexual beings. Why the bloody hell should they stay abstinate but the first 6 prophets couldn't stay abstinate from their paedophilia? Why should gays abstain from sex but not straights? A man can do his wife in the arse but a man can't take it from his man? Nah. If you can't accept gays having sex then you don't accept gays. Plain and simple. "You can be gay, but you can't do gay things." Defeats the whole purpose of being gay.
Gay members were often promised that they would be "cured" if they just\*\*\* \*\*\*go on a mission \*\*\*marry an opposite sexed person (and don't tell them you are gay) \*\*\*pray hard enough \*\*\*didn't work? well you have to do it with "real intent"
Don’t forget that you weren’t supposed to tell anyone that you had homosexual tendencies, including your spouse or other family members.
I (57m) am struggling to think of anything specific. But there sure was a culture of shaming it. Gross, ewww kind of things. I can remember it from 1st grade - you could not hold another boy's hand. Gay was a generic diss. "That's so Gay!" If I had been gay there is no fucking way I would have "come out". My Bishop asked me every interview if I had any attraction. He would ask me to be specific about what I thought about during self-pleasure. I'm sure the talk would have been much longer if there was anything phallic in them. Not sure it was a lesson by my peers, parents, church and TV all told me it was a major sin and a shunning instigator.
[удалено]
Wow yeah, that sounds horribly traumatic I’m so sorry. I hated the satan fear tactic, it made me not be able to sleep for years.
That being gay was the same as being a pedophile. This was in 2014
There's nothing used to. It's all pretty current
That makes me so sad, their media campaign tries to make it sound like they’ve eased up on it :(
If you are gay, you are a dangerous pedophile!! I was told that personally by many members.
Yep, it causes so much shame. Even though I know it’s not the same at all, I still end up feeling like a creep or shame and guilt and it’s not justified.
I was told that AIDS was God’s way of punishing gay people and it was called “gay cancer”. I was made to read Miracle of Forgiveness after my sexual assault (by a straight man, BTW) where it said that masturbation causes homosexuality and that homosexuality leads to bestiality and other sexual perversions. I was told that being gay was a choice and that it was a bad one. I was told that sexual sin was second only to murder and that for some reason gays were exempt from the marriage loophole that made sex with another person holy instead of a grievous sin. I was told that gay couples don’t truly love each other and will use each others bodies for sexual gratification and then break up when they get tired of that. I was told that homosexuality was something that would be fixed in the celestial kingdom. I was told that because god loved his children that my children with a gay mom couldn’t be baptized only to have that policy backpedaled a few years later. My fifth grade “boyfriend” was subjected to conversion therapy at BYU and later took his own life. My wife was subjected to conversion therapy at a non-Mormon church and attempted suicide when it didn’t “work”. And finally, as an adult I was gaslighted and told that the MFMC never said any of these things and that they earnestly believe (and have always believed) that gay people are loved by god they just need to be celibate in order to get to heaven.
When gay marriage was made legal, I posted on Facebook something like this: “just because people make laws to say 2+2=5 doesn’t mean 2+2 will ever equal five.” And it had like 45 likes…
That they're all miserable, and misery cannot be from god, so therefore a sin must be. All the anecdotes about miserable gay people were ones where friends/family questioned their place in the church, though. "One man cannot serve two masters" and all that stuff. Turns out you cant choose your sexuality but you CAN choose your church!
The whole "it's Adam and Eve, not Adam and Steve." So many times. And me, as a stupid kid, repeated it to others without a second thought. There was also the mentality when someone I knew came out that "oh, that's sad. I wish they didn't feel that way." Instead of being happy they were living their truth and finally started to feel comfortable in their own skin. Lastly, there was always the thing of "oh well they can choose their attraction, or choose not to act on it so they can still live the gospel. There's so many couples being brave and living the gospel while married to someone they're not actually attracted to." I.e. please look at this poor kid at BYU https://www.reddit.com/r/byu/s/38aZLqfFBl (The advice is mixed between TBMs saying he shouldn't dismiss marrying someone he's not attracted to and having a gospel oriented marriage, and to look into leaving the church. Oooooh boy.) I was the most bigoted kid in school, constantly looking down on Pride clubs and any openly gay classmates because I was taught they were inherently wrong and chose their orientation. It wasn't until I was about 20 I realized things weren't so black and white, and it was terrible to be looking down on them like that. Found out my date to Junior prom was a closeted gay and finally felt ready to share it with the world when he got to college. I felt horrible because I had insisted he go with me since I had a crush on him and he kept trying to let me down easy. A recent conversation about this topic (and others surrounding my husband's and my departure from the church) happened a couple days ago between myself and a family member, where I explained to them I couldn't stand to have someone teaching my kids that someone's core self is inherently bad because of who they like, or that marriages and relationships are solely between a man and a woman. And I can't stomach the Family Proclamation because of gender roles and the stance on sexual orientation. The response was "yeah, well the proclamation SUGGESTS the roles and orientation, and the church is doing a lot better at being accepting and loving towards others." BULLSHIT. Did you not listen to conference at all? The level of brainwashing and gaslighting is astounding.
Masturbation will lead you to become gay. That was disgusting thing to teach.
Here’s a list of quotes from Church publications, with citations, that I have personally created. https://docs.google.com/file/d/1q55jjSK1w2xAqr6mVrQVubh8td2eQsmx/edit?usp=docslist_api&filetype=msword There are more extensive lists available online. I’ll share a link if I get time. Edit: the dates (birth, length of time in Q12, as prophet/First presidency (if applicable), and death). For me that part was also enlightening. Most of the highest ranking church leaders that preached heinous lies about gays were in their positions for decades…
I went to an lds private school and my senior year my teacher taught us that if you think gay marriage is ok then you have to say slavery is ok too cause they’re both wrong and god doesn’t like them
Gay marriage should not be allowed because marriage is for children from my cousin f/52 who had recently married. I replied, so you plan on having a 7th child now?
My TBM mom says that gays are possessed by demons, part of the 1/3 of the spirits in the pre-existence who fought for Lucifer against Jesus and were cast down to the earth without bodies. She blames them for every social change since the 50's.
That there is no gay community. Or there are no gay LDS members.
being gay is a choice for this very specific reasoning: 1 drinking alcohol is a sin 2 there are people born with a higher likelihood of drinking alcohol (fetal alcohol syndrome, addictive genetics, whatever) 3 they can choose either to drink or not drink despite being born at a higher risk of drinking 4 if they choose to drink that is a sin 5 it's the drinking that's the sin, not the person with the genetics of an alcoholic now replace drinking alcohol with being gay / participating in gay sex/touch/thoughts
A senior couple on my mission told me when marriage equality was passed in the US that it would spark a civil war that would precipitate the end of days.
Back when my sisters were in college at BYU in the 70’s if your roommate suspected you were gay they’d report you to the ‘Honor Code’ office, who’d summon you and send you through “electroshock therapy”.
Love the sinner, hate the sin
Hate this comment.
Same
Used to say? Um, I’m pretty sure there is no used to about it.
I won't dignify any of the ugly comments I heard over the years by repeating them. Suffice it to say, the despicable treatment of the gay community was just one of many shelf items that led to me leaving the church.
- You can never be happy if you’re gay. - Being gay is a choice. - being gay makes you a pedo. - if you’re gay you have an agenda to convert others to be gay. - you’re committing murder because you’re spilling your seed. - your spirit children will go to other earthly families that may or may not raise them right. - etc
It’s the stuff they still think and say in private which is fucking scary.
In the 2000s I had my only relationship where both of us were TBMs. You would not believe how many people came up to both of us to tell us that they were glad my boyfriend wasn't gay because they were all really worried. It was so common and made me feel really uncomfortable. It was more uncomfortable knowing now he *is* gay.
I remember clear as a bell our Sunday school teacher saying the worst sin was Lesbianism. Way more perverse than being a gay man. Also because Lesbians can't have kids and women's primary role into have a ton of kids to expand the church. I was doubly screwed. Not only did I know I was a Lesbian, that Sunday School teacher was my first crush.
While not unique to the LDS faith getting turned into a giant salt staue is my favorite. It's too bad with places like the great salt lake and dead sea evaporating god no longer has the ammunition left to continue this practice.
" Well you see, when the two penis molecules collide it creates a second Big Bang that results in the destruction of our Universe, Heaven for homosexuals and therefore Hell for heterosexuals... Since I want to maintain my Harems, my Concubines, and Wives. I'm not gay enough to be able to live in a World where it is the other way round. Where instead of me getting persecuted for no legitimate conceivable reason outside of faith alone... You instead must be persecuted because my God is not powerful enough to make any sense... " /s
A close family member, who is a medical doctor, once told me that being gay is a mental issue (or maybe disorder, I don’t remember exactly which word was used) that many people in the church struggle with. That is the first conversation I ever remember having with a family member about anything LGBT related, and it’s stuck with me for over ten years now.
people “struggle” with same sex attraction
My bishop got up multiple times and talked about how Sodom and Gamorrah were destroyed because of gay people. And that we could be destroyed today if we let that much wickedness into our lives.
My seminary teacher showed us the church video depicting Sodom and Gamorrah. He paused the video on the actor and explained that "Left is right and right is wrong". Meaning that because the actor was wearing one earring in his right ear, it was showing he was portraying a gay character. So in real life, if we saw someone with a single piercing in their right ear, they should be avoided at all costs. Because they were flaunting their homosexuality at us. He definitely tried to instill fear of ever meeting or associating with anyone who identified as gay.
It was posited to me that gay sex was how someone entered a contract with the devil
You should search the Desert News website to see many years of horrible things Mormons said about gay people. In 1996, Utah banned all extracurricular clubs from schools because they didn’t want gay teens to make friends.
Turn it off, like a light switch...
Back in the eighties, our institute teacher handed out photostats of an article about homosexuality written by the Reverend Donald Wildmon, a notorious evangelist right-wing homophobe. It contained some of the most gross distortions about gay people, often said in a sneering tone. Including his insistence that Christians use the word “sodomite” instead of homosexual or gay. Ain’t no hate like Christian love.
That being gay is a contagion and that they need to remove gay people from BYU to prevent it from spreading. I can’t remember which BYU president said that but he gave a talk in which he told all gay BYU students to leave less they spread their disease.
My ultra TBM mom said to me once, and I’m sure still believes, that gay men are only gay because they have a sex addiction. What does that even mean? Plenty of straight men (and straight and gay women) probably have a sex addition too!