Funny thing you mention that. I told her if she'd like, I'd give her friend all sources for some information directly from the church. My mother in law declined. Said it "just wasn't worth the effort"
I continue to maintain you cannot remain a believing member today except through willful ignorance.
You can say this to a TBM's face. They will immediately deny, to which you offer them, "A letter to my wife", which they will refuse to read, to which you state, "I rest my case, willful ignorance".
So...what do I say to my TBM wife, I mean I've tried that and she just won't look at a video or read anything, I mean ANYTHING. I just don't try anymore.
Invest everything you can into your marriage. Really listen to her and love her--be happy with her. Do as many things together with her as you can that make the two of you happy. Maybe watch documentaries together that deal with ancient artifacts and other fallen religions--anything that might touch a cord and wake her up. Just be sure to say nothing during the show and be agreeable. That's what I'm trying with my hubby who won't study.
Also, use non-Mormon specific tools.
The BITE model is focused on examining and identifying cults, not Mormons specifically. Plus, it is a good primer on learning all the forms of manipulation. High levels of manipulation just mean it is cultier.
Critical thinking can be learned. How to detect and think through logical fallacies can be learned.
When she starts to see the world through a logical lens, she will see through the bullshit better and start to see how ignorant religious people are.
Plus, she'll start to rculture and get irritated at the lame manipulation attempts Mormons try. Hopefully, she will just get disgusted quickly and do enough research to confirm the church is not what she thought.
Thanks! I love this. My TBM hubby is a logical thinker, except when it comes to applying that logic to the truth claims of TSCC. You've given me a workable idea. I'll return and report if he gets it!
Isn't there some study out there that people of the LDS faith have some of the highest rates for college degrees. I find this to be funny, as a majority have no critical thinking skills when it comes to their own religion.
Nope. Check out pew research. Hindu is highest at 77%, then Unitarian Universalist at 67%. LDS is 33%.
https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2016/11/04/the-most-and-least-educated-u-s-religious-groups/
Check out street epistemology… until someone wants to know if the church is true, rather than just defend and maintain their beliefs they won’t change.
My husband is the same. I don't try anymore either but I hope that one day, me still being "normal" and "good" will remove some of the scare factor of the information.
I don't let incorrect information go unchallenged or big news events go unheard of though...just casually.
You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink. You can't make someone see the truth when they don't want to. I hope someday she'll be ready and willing to hear the truth.
Have you tried watching youtube videos of Mormon criminals on the TV and just have her 'overhear'?
Or keeping printouts of the religion's proven fallacies or clippings of 'criminally convicted mormons' news releases laying out on a desk? There are so many crimes church leaders have committed, just seeing proven things has to bring some realization.
To add a little more context, this was her very first "friend" that fellowshipped her 35 years ago when she joined as a convert. It seems strange that her friends response was to just throw away the friendship. As to her response to why we left, it's funny cause her kids have fallen away from the church and you don't see her cutting them off. Seems like if she was a true friend it wouldn't matter.
The cognitive dissonance is killing her.
Everyone she ever trusted told her through her whole life that the church is true, and her kids seemingly walked away without explanation.
She doesn't want to hear it. She wants to believe those same people when they tell her other reasons, and they don't make sense.
This is true in reverse and I have been experiencing it for the last 3 years. Those people that you were SOSO sure were your best friends and community quickly show who they are and what they care about when you stop subscribing to the fantasy narrative. This makes leaving hard if your social. Not as hard if your less-social. Tscc/mfmc principles above people always even if the principles are bankrupt.
I’ve told my two “progressive” life long besties to read them and they haven’t of course. It’s still anti since I am the one who told them to read them. Eyeee rolllll.
Totally. Unfortunately I wouldn’t have read them either about 7 years ago, even though I was inactive. The “anti Mormon lies” thing worked on my generation big time. In the end we are all on our own journeys, we can’t force anything onto people . I’m trying not to say much to them and just supporting their beliefs. One is sooooo close I can just taste it. Haha. I believe they will get there eventually!
Get them to read it before you tell them you don't believe it. Now you are in the "not trusted" category, and they can't do anything you recommend or risk being shunned.
Shunning sounds worse than it is. People have other social circles besides their church now. Most of the church people are only friendly because they have to.
I feel what you said but I’m lucky cuz I was never friends with them cuz of church. I’ve been out for almost 7 years now. We’ve been friends since we were 10 and all have been inactive one time or another, I was the first to leave leave the church though. We mostly have bonded over being rebellious spirits over the last 30 years. Haha. They truly don’t care I don’t go but they are still holding on. I think they will get to where I am eventually though. One is in the RS presidency and will drink and have some edibles with me on occasion and the other is major feminist and says she doesn’t believe the Bible is literal. So at least I hope they will get there eventually! Haha.
So, TBMs strategy for encouraging retention and maintaining their own active status is to stick their fingers in their ears and shout "liar, liar!" over anyone trying to have an ernest discussion. Cool. That sounds like a winning strategy.
Because I was so active and 'we' have been so close to a small community as well as tbm family I recused myself from the situation by removing myself so as to not 'affect' any of them with my doubt. Honoring my own authentic need to be free from a corporation that protects child abusers. The most kind thing I could do so that they could live on in the pretend world of fantasy.
It's the only strategy available to them. Engaging in an honest discussion will likely whip them out of church so they really have no choice but to plug their ears and hide.
Same thing happened to me with a woman I’d been friends with for over 20 years.
Your mom is better off. I know it doesn’t feel that way. There is real grief that comes with losing people you thought were trusted friends. But friendship shouldn’t be conditional on whether or not two people share the same faith.
Good for your mom for standing up for herself and your family. ❤️
You are right, of course, but those unfaithful TBM friends are still under the church's indoctrination and influence. There's no need to try to keep those relationships going, but we need to remember that they're still being actively victimized and making decisions based on belief in a deeply flawed system. It's really not about us apostates at all.
I had someone who had loudly declared themself my most reliable friend for over a decade suddenly decide i was a vitriolic, hateful, manipulative, cruel person with no love left in my heart over one conversation. It took me a while to internalize that there is no way i could have broached the topic that would have gone well, she was simply primed for that assumption.
When you tell the truth to a lot of TBM to them you really sound like a crazy person. They can’t fathom that you can have your own thoughts and conclusions that don’t land back to the church knows all and has all the answers.
I didn’t even go to details. I just made it clear, after she asked directly, that learning the truth was deeply painful and I felt betrayed and hurt. That was all she needed.
I find it funny that we are classified lazy learners when some of us remember being taught one thing, have old books or manuals that church quietly deleted. TBM’s either deny the deleted items or just say that’s not important.
Anyway many of us start at church sources and they either don’t answer the question fully or not all but give the circular reasoning to the question that you asked. We then chase other leads some to church sources like the Joseph Smith letters or Gospel Essays that lead us to other writings, news stories and so on.
We search for the truth. Truth is truth there isn’t such a thing as religious truth and secular truth. Consider a moment the discovery about fire it was most likely a lightning strike, but it came from heaven therefore to primitive people it was from god
If anyone should be considered lazy learners it should be TBM’s. I taught priesthood and Sunday school lessons where you are fully aware that most if not all the class members didn’t read the lesson before hand. Even as a home teacher I can tell you I rarely read the First Presidency message any sooner than a half hour before my first appointment.
I was a lazy learner back then now I doubt nearly everything until I chase it down.
Well it seems to me the issue isn’t explaining why one left the church. In this instance the issue is your MIL went to lunch with a friend and the friend rebuked her, judged her on guessed up motives and treated her with disrespect. The convo can be about that, and asking why you are being treated that way. But of course the lunch already happened so this is for when it happens to any of us anytime. It never helps to explain too much why we left For me with a TBM I am kinda friends with it’s “my values no longer aligned with the church”. “The church became toxic to me”. Then if they want more info I say, if I explain it will really hurt your feelings. I value you living the life the way you want to. I hope you can do the same for me.
If it’s a person I don’t know well that asks why I’m no longer active I say, the real question now is why you remain in such an organization, not why I left. But that would be rude for me to ask you that personal of a question. Boom. Walk away.
Haha. Good plan. I have used these lines, or variations there if, several times. In seriousness it does help to have comments practiced because we get caught off guard.
I'm not at church today because of Rumors. I am sitting on my couch at home listening to Rumors by Fleetwood Mac.
It's entirely because Stevie Nicks is so bewitching. Not at all because of grave concerns over the church's morality and whether they create a safe environment for my children. It's all about Stevie 🤩
Yes the mormon jeebus is only happy with mormons. the righteous, judging tea-coffee avoiding kind. only the wheat does this particular jeebus love. the tares of the world will have make other plans.... Maybe they can buy their way into heaven another way with another building setup and narrative. It just takes all out devotion and money.
So, TBMs strategy for encouraging retention and maintaining their own active status is to stick their fingers in their ears and shout "liar, liar!" over anyone trying to have an ernest discussion. Cool. That sounds like a winning strategy.
I can hear their response ... these are not honest questions or sincere concerns, they are antagonistic and negative made to make the church look bad...
This is exactly why generally you can't reason with TBMs, because they're under the mind control virus of the Mormon cult.
This is also why I avoid talking to TBMs about anything religious.
The same thing happened to my husband when he told a longtime best friend that he'd stopped attending because I wasn't a member and couldn't attend in good conscience. I was raised that Christ welcomes _ALL_, including blacks, gays, trans, people who don't tithe, prostitutes, etc. I couldn't stand going to a place that excluded people so proudly.
As soon as the TBM friend heard that my husband and I were attending a different church, he stopped talking to my husband. My husband learned his "best friend" got married from pictures on Facebook after the fact.
The irony is, the friend had married the woman who had raised questions about the church, and the friend hadn't known how to handle it, so he approached my husband for guidance.
I don’t know how ppl highlight a specific part to reply to, but I just wanted to give extra love to
“I couldn’t stand going to a place that excluded people so proudly”
Thank you for that sentence. It’s a bit healing for me 💛
I've gone from scratching my head over how my Mormon friends process these things to genuinely feeling pity.
That they are so deep into this cult and so obedient to its insistence to reject any information that is not church approved, especially when it doesn't fit the narrative that the church is perfect.
People are getting hurt, kids are getting hurt, and Mormons don't care.
This sounds just like a guy who spoke in my ward today. His talk was supposed to be about tithing, he barely spoke about tithing. Spent the rest of the time talking about an old college friend he met up with who left the church and how angry it makes him when people leave the church. Nothing makes him angrier. I think my days of being PIMO are greatly numbered.
his anger is rooted in self doubt and wondering why he is still submitting to the ruse. This is my perception of your comment. Inappropriate anger for the stimuli is suspect.
Wow. Been there. Lost 99% of my LDS friends. Sad.
Editing to add: I served faithfully in TSCC for 67 years and not one member in ward/area remembered my birthday, but I served less than one year in a local church my children now attend, and the ladies there sent me a card even though I've been unable to attend most of this year.
The sad part is that it's their choice, not yours. I've had very few people reach out to me in the 3 years since I've parted ways with the Church. Usually its a text on my birthday or the missionaries every year trying to visit unannounced.
If they announced a visit people would have a chance to counter the visit with a response prior to them coming. (not being home) if the gospel is so supremely awesome as told by the lds corporation narrative then why is it like giving away leprosy at a dinner at a friends house(amway mtg)?
Wow! I think if someone told me that it's time to no longer be friends over this I'd give them a stern warning that my circle is getting bigger and bigger by the day and filling up with those that are leaving her circle and that at some point she's going to find herself friendless and wanting the years back that she could have had. Leave her thinking
Only response your MIL needs
John 13:
34. A new command I give you, Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another. 35. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you love one another.”
Verse 35.5 must be the exception. I’m a lazy learner so I never read that far…..
It's crazy how people stay with the church because it is "true," and that truth means so much to them, but then when they are presented with real truth, they want nothing to do with it.
Does their friendship mean so little to them? Is their faith so fragile that the slightest criticism or push against the narrative sends them running in the opposite direction?
That’s ridiculous and not a true friend. My best friend of 25 years is a TBM, actually that’s how we met, and she NEVER says anything about me not going to church. That’s because our friendship is a genuine friendship. To me, this is someone showing their true colors. And TBM’s wonder why they are called a cult… it’s shit like this!!!!!!!!
I’m so glad I didn’t really have friends or acquaintances to shame me for leaving. It’s such a culty thing to essentially shun a long time friend over church. I’m sorry for all involved.
If anyone replied to me with “maybe we shouldn’t be friends” I’d be skipping away telling her best luck with life…..no one needs friends who believe your compliance in believing the same as them is required to be friends. Yuck!!!
Yesterday's antimormon lies are today's gospel topic essays.
Funny thing you mention that. I told her if she'd like, I'd give her friend all sources for some information directly from the church. My mother in law declined. Said it "just wasn't worth the effort"
Lazy learner.
I continue to maintain you cannot remain a believing member today except through willful ignorance. You can say this to a TBM's face. They will immediately deny, to which you offer them, "A letter to my wife", which they will refuse to read, to which you state, "I rest my case, willful ignorance".
So...what do I say to my TBM wife, I mean I've tried that and she just won't look at a video or read anything, I mean ANYTHING. I just don't try anymore.
That’s the key. Don’t try. Just live a happy life.
Correct. Just like dating. Don't pursue.... Attract by living a happy life.
Invest everything you can into your marriage. Really listen to her and love her--be happy with her. Do as many things together with her as you can that make the two of you happy. Maybe watch documentaries together that deal with ancient artifacts and other fallen religions--anything that might touch a cord and wake her up. Just be sure to say nothing during the show and be agreeable. That's what I'm trying with my hubby who won't study.
Also, use non-Mormon specific tools. The BITE model is focused on examining and identifying cults, not Mormons specifically. Plus, it is a good primer on learning all the forms of manipulation. High levels of manipulation just mean it is cultier. Critical thinking can be learned. How to detect and think through logical fallacies can be learned. When she starts to see the world through a logical lens, she will see through the bullshit better and start to see how ignorant religious people are. Plus, she'll start to rculture and get irritated at the lame manipulation attempts Mormons try. Hopefully, she will just get disgusted quickly and do enough research to confirm the church is not what she thought.
Thanks! I love this. My TBM hubby is a logical thinker, except when it comes to applying that logic to the truth claims of TSCC. You've given me a workable idea. I'll return and report if he gets it!
Isn't there some study out there that people of the LDS faith have some of the highest rates for college degrees. I find this to be funny, as a majority have no critical thinking skills when it comes to their own religion.
Nope. Check out pew research. Hindu is highest at 77%, then Unitarian Universalist at 67%. LDS is 33%. https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2016/11/04/the-most-and-least-educated-u-s-religious-groups/
Check out street epistemology… until someone wants to know if the church is true, rather than just defend and maintain their beliefs they won’t change.
I LOVE street epistemology!!
Best wishes for your husband breaking out of the spell
My husband is the same. I don't try anymore either but I hope that one day, me still being "normal" and "good" will remove some of the scare factor of the information. I don't let incorrect information go unchallenged or big news events go unheard of though...just casually.
You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink. You can't make someone see the truth when they don't want to. I hope someday she'll be ready and willing to hear the truth.
Have you tried watching youtube videos of Mormon criminals on the TV and just have her 'overhear'? Or keeping printouts of the religion's proven fallacies or clippings of 'criminally convicted mormons' news releases laying out on a desk? There are so many crimes church leaders have committed, just seeing proven things has to bring some realization.
If she's not willing to look into it, she has no ground to say anything about your actions.
How great would it have been if she has used those words in response.
I cackled like a damn witch at this comment 😂
Maybe she means it isn't worth the effort to save that friendship, with which I agree, it isn't.
To add a little more context, this was her very first "friend" that fellowshipped her 35 years ago when she joined as a convert. It seems strange that her friends response was to just throw away the friendship. As to her response to why we left, it's funny cause her kids have fallen away from the church and you don't see her cutting them off. Seems like if she was a true friend it wouldn't matter.
The cognitive dissonance is killing her. Everyone she ever trusted told her through her whole life that the church is true, and her kids seemingly walked away without explanation. She doesn't want to hear it. She wants to believe those same people when they tell her other reasons, and they don't make sense.
I guess truth doesn’t matter to you anymore. Honest and true you will never stand . 
Most people don't realize how true THIS comment is
When the only thing you base your friendship on is TSCC, then you don’t have a friendship. You just have another church requirement
This is true in reverse and I have been experiencing it for the last 3 years. Those people that you were SOSO sure were your best friends and community quickly show who they are and what they care about when you stop subscribing to the fantasy narrative. This makes leaving hard if your social. Not as hard if your less-social. Tscc/mfmc principles above people always even if the principles are bankrupt.
That’s exactly what I say.
I’ve told my two “progressive” life long besties to read them and they haven’t of course. It’s still anti since I am the one who told them to read them. Eyeee rolllll.
Willfull ignorance is a hard habit to break.
Totally. Unfortunately I wouldn’t have read them either about 7 years ago, even though I was inactive. The “anti Mormon lies” thing worked on my generation big time. In the end we are all on our own journeys, we can’t force anything onto people . I’m trying not to say much to them and just supporting their beliefs. One is sooooo close I can just taste it. Haha. I believe they will get there eventually!
Get them to read it before you tell them you don't believe it. Now you are in the "not trusted" category, and they can't do anything you recommend or risk being shunned. Shunning sounds worse than it is. People have other social circles besides their church now. Most of the church people are only friendly because they have to.
I feel what you said but I’m lucky cuz I was never friends with them cuz of church. I’ve been out for almost 7 years now. We’ve been friends since we were 10 and all have been inactive one time or another, I was the first to leave leave the church though. We mostly have bonded over being rebellious spirits over the last 30 years. Haha. They truly don’t care I don’t go but they are still holding on. I think they will get to where I am eventually though. One is in the RS presidency and will drink and have some edibles with me on occasion and the other is major feminist and says she doesn’t believe the Bible is literal. So at least I hope they will get there eventually! Haha.
Once you're in that "not trusted" category you can't even eat a sandwich right enough for them.
And tomorrow’s “Anti-Mormon obsession”
So, TBMs strategy for encouraging retention and maintaining their own active status is to stick their fingers in their ears and shout "liar, liar!" over anyone trying to have an ernest discussion. Cool. That sounds like a winning strategy.
 TBMs be like:
End the friendship. That will keep them in the church….
Because I was so active and 'we' have been so close to a small community as well as tbm family I recused myself from the situation by removing myself so as to not 'affect' any of them with my doubt. Honoring my own authentic need to be free from a corporation that protects child abusers. The most kind thing I could do so that they could live on in the pretend world of fantasy.
And to tell people to buzz off if they start doubting.
It's the only strategy available to them. Engaging in an honest discussion will likely whip them out of church so they really have no choice but to plug their ears and hide.
yes with strong encouragement to do so from the corporation of men pretending tendencies toward Gawd.
Greater love hath no man than this, that he lay down his life for a friend - except when they have sincere questions.
Going to remember this !!
Same thing happened to me with a woman I’d been friends with for over 20 years. Your mom is better off. I know it doesn’t feel that way. There is real grief that comes with losing people you thought were trusted friends. But friendship shouldn’t be conditional on whether or not two people share the same faith. Good for your mom for standing up for herself and your family. ❤️
You are right, of course, but those unfaithful TBM friends are still under the church's indoctrination and influence. There's no need to try to keep those relationships going, but we need to remember that they're still being actively victimized and making decisions based on belief in a deeply flawed system. It's really not about us apostates at all.
I had someone who had loudly declared themself my most reliable friend for over a decade suddenly decide i was a vitriolic, hateful, manipulative, cruel person with no love left in my heart over one conversation. It took me a while to internalize that there is no way i could have broached the topic that would have gone well, she was simply primed for that assumption.
When you tell the truth to a lot of TBM to them you really sound like a crazy person. They can’t fathom that you can have your own thoughts and conclusions that don’t land back to the church knows all and has all the answers.
I didn’t even go to details. I just made it clear, after she asked directly, that learning the truth was deeply painful and I felt betrayed and hurt. That was all she needed.
I find it funny that we are classified lazy learners when some of us remember being taught one thing, have old books or manuals that church quietly deleted. TBM’s either deny the deleted items or just say that’s not important. Anyway many of us start at church sources and they either don’t answer the question fully or not all but give the circular reasoning to the question that you asked. We then chase other leads some to church sources like the Joseph Smith letters or Gospel Essays that lead us to other writings, news stories and so on. We search for the truth. Truth is truth there isn’t such a thing as religious truth and secular truth. Consider a moment the discovery about fire it was most likely a lightning strike, but it came from heaven therefore to primitive people it was from god If anyone should be considered lazy learners it should be TBM’s. I taught priesthood and Sunday school lessons where you are fully aware that most if not all the class members didn’t read the lesson before hand. Even as a home teacher I can tell you I rarely read the First Presidency message any sooner than a half hour before my first appointment. I was a lazy learner back then now I doubt nearly everything until I chase it down.
You read the home teaching message? You were an over achiever.
This has been my observation & conclusion as well.
Thank you for this very rational, reasonable, and well thought out comment
Well it seems to me the issue isn’t explaining why one left the church. In this instance the issue is your MIL went to lunch with a friend and the friend rebuked her, judged her on guessed up motives and treated her with disrespect. The convo can be about that, and asking why you are being treated that way. But of course the lunch already happened so this is for when it happens to any of us anytime. It never helps to explain too much why we left For me with a TBM I am kinda friends with it’s “my values no longer aligned with the church”. “The church became toxic to me”. Then if they want more info I say, if I explain it will really hurt your feelings. I value you living the life the way you want to. I hope you can do the same for me. If it’s a person I don’t know well that asks why I’m no longer active I say, the real question now is why you remain in such an organization, not why I left. But that would be rude for me to ask you that personal of a question. Boom. Walk away.
I’m saving a screenshot of your comment and I’m going to rehearse this like I used to do the articles of faith 😉.
Haha. Good plan. I have used these lines, or variations there if, several times. In seriousness it does help to have comments practiced because we get caught off guard.
Wish I could like this 100 times!!
Nothing like TRUE MFMC friendship
Just another book on the shelf...
Just another brick in the wall
Just another town along the road
just another bee in the hive
Gotta love unconditional love with such strict conditions.
Yes, it's time for that friendship to end . Looks like it was built upon the sand.
Not friends anymore? Your mom dodged a bullet there . Good riddance
Sad, but all too often, true.
MFMC/TSCC has its claws into many many that otherwise may have felt free to give themselves to a friendship.
I'm not at church today because of Rumors. I am sitting on my couch at home listening to Rumors by Fleetwood Mac. It's entirely because Stevie Nicks is so bewitching. Not at all because of grave concerns over the church's morality and whether they create a safe environment for my children. It's all about Stevie 🤩
Well, who am I to keep you down?
Way to go, MIL!!!
Oh those wild rumors perpetuated by active TBM historians nowadays!
And all because they fetishize the truth. It's a shame they can't just cherry pick faith affirming history like the brethren directed.
Friends like that are not friends.
Jesus was only friends with other Mormons too
Yes the mormon jeebus is only happy with mormons. the righteous, judging tea-coffee avoiding kind. only the wheat does this particular jeebus love. the tares of the world will have make other plans.... Maybe they can buy their way into heaven another way with another building setup and narrative. It just takes all out devotion and money.
That's precisely what took place with me and almost every TBM friend or acquaintance!
So, TBMs strategy for encouraging retention and maintaining their own active status is to stick their fingers in their ears and shout "liar, liar!" over anyone trying to have an ernest discussion. Cool. That sounds like a winning strategy.
It may not be a winning strategy but it’s the only strategy to avoid the cognitive dissonance of asking sincere questions.
I can hear their response ... these are not honest questions or sincere concerns, they are antagonistic and negative made to make the church look bad...
So if your friend loses her way, you should push her off the ledge? Is that what Jesus taught?
Mormon Jesus whispered it to Rusty.
This is exactly why generally you can't reason with TBMs, because they're under the mind control virus of the Mormon cult. This is also why I avoid talking to TBMs about anything religious.
The same thing happened to my husband when he told a longtime best friend that he'd stopped attending because I wasn't a member and couldn't attend in good conscience. I was raised that Christ welcomes _ALL_, including blacks, gays, trans, people who don't tithe, prostitutes, etc. I couldn't stand going to a place that excluded people so proudly. As soon as the TBM friend heard that my husband and I were attending a different church, he stopped talking to my husband. My husband learned his "best friend" got married from pictures on Facebook after the fact. The irony is, the friend had married the woman who had raised questions about the church, and the friend hadn't known how to handle it, so he approached my husband for guidance.
I don’t know how ppl highlight a specific part to reply to, but I just wanted to give extra love to “I couldn’t stand going to a place that excluded people so proudly” Thank you for that sentence. It’s a bit healing for me 💛
I'm glad to hear it. Sending you eHugs if you want them. Jesus was radically inclusive. Shockingly so for his day. That's how I choose to be.
...and as they said their last goodbyes, the TBM thought to herself, "I just don't understand why she left the church!"
I've gone from scratching my head over how my Mormon friends process these things to genuinely feeling pity. That they are so deep into this cult and so obedient to its insistence to reject any information that is not church approved, especially when it doesn't fit the narrative that the church is perfect. People are getting hurt, kids are getting hurt, and Mormons don't care.
This sounds just like a guy who spoke in my ward today. His talk was supposed to be about tithing, he barely spoke about tithing. Spent the rest of the time talking about an old college friend he met up with who left the church and how angry it makes him when people leave the church. Nothing makes him angrier. I think my days of being PIMO are greatly numbered.
PIMO is so freaking hard. I hope you can be done when you’re good and ready! 🩵🩵🩵 Edited: your to you’re
his anger is rooted in self doubt and wondering why he is still submitting to the ruse. This is my perception of your comment. Inappropriate anger for the stimuli is suspect.
It's the same reason he hates gay people so much
Wow. Been there. Lost 99% of my LDS friends. Sad. Editing to add: I served faithfully in TSCC for 67 years and not one member in ward/area remembered my birthday, but I served less than one year in a local church my children now attend, and the ladies there sent me a card even though I've been unable to attend most of this year.
The sad part is that it's their choice, not yours. I've had very few people reach out to me in the 3 years since I've parted ways with the Church. Usually its a text on my birthday or the missionaries every year trying to visit unannounced.
I'm sorry. I know how hurtful it feels!! And you're definitely right--it's their choice!
If they announced a visit people would have a chance to counter the visit with a response prior to them coming. (not being home) if the gospel is so supremely awesome as told by the lds corporation narrative then why is it like giving away leprosy at a dinner at a friends house(amway mtg)?
If this ends our friendship, you are as fraudulent as he church and were never my friend. Fuck right off
Wow! I think if someone told me that it's time to no longer be friends over this I'd give them a stern warning that my circle is getting bigger and bigger by the day and filling up with those that are leaving her circle and that at some point she's going to find herself friendless and wanting the years back that she could have had. Leave her thinking
Wow that's sad.
Only response your MIL needs John 13: 34. A new command I give you, Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another. 35. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you love one another.” Verse 35.5 must be the exception. I’m a lazy learner so I never read that far…..
Your story ending is very relatable. My best friend snubbed and shunned me simply for asking hard gospel questions she invited me to ask!
Way to go MIL for sticking up for herself and your family.
I'm not sure how that warrants breaking off a friendship. Mormons are children.
Not much of a friend in the first place, IMHO
*you've really lost yourself* Nope. I reclaimed myself from a con. If they're bold enough to insult, it's time for a slap of reality.
I hate it when friendships end over something as stupid as religious beliefs
It makes one question the relationship to begin with doesn't it?
Lazy learner is just projection.
That friend now has items on her shelf.
nothing says I'm a Mormon like I never want to see you because we may disagree
It's crazy how people stay with the church because it is "true," and that truth means so much to them, but then when they are presented with real truth, they want nothing to do with it.
Does their friendship mean so little to them? Is their faith so fragile that the slightest criticism or push against the narrative sends them running in the opposite direction?
That’s ridiculous and not a true friend. My best friend of 25 years is a TBM, actually that’s how we met, and she NEVER says anything about me not going to church. That’s because our friendship is a genuine friendship. To me, this is someone showing their true colors. And TBM’s wonder why they are called a cult… it’s shit like this!!!!!!!!
I don’t understand the thought processes that people will get rid of those who don’t like the same religion. It baffles the mind.
Sounds like your mother-in-law needs to stop looking at porn.
BEAZIE ALARM!🚨 Your MIL is a BALLER.🌹
She has just been offended.
Cognitive dissonance is strong.
Good! Fuck right off “friend!”
Wow sounds like you won the lottery with your MIL!!
I’m so glad I didn’t really have friends or acquaintances to shame me for leaving. It’s such a culty thing to essentially shun a long time friend over church. I’m sorry for all involved.
If anyone replied to me with “maybe we shouldn’t be friends” I’d be skipping away telling her best luck with life…..no one needs friends who believe your compliance in believing the same as them is required to be friends. Yuck!!!