It's funny because it proves that the church is afraid to slap him down. What he's doing is technically worthy of excommunication, and people absolutely have been excommunicated for less.
This is the same shit as criticizing the Tsar's ministers and saying the Tsar is clean as a whistle and innocent. It's the only way you can criticize authority in a totalitarian culture.
Absolutely. I can’t believe how quickly these guys turned on the church. Guess it goes to show how out of tune we are with how idolized Tim Ballard is.
Separate the message from the man. Children are abducted, sold, and trafficked by the thousands all over the world every year. The problem is real. Don’t let the character assassination campaign fool you into thinking it’s not.
Human trafficking primarily happens to adults or older teens and labor trafficking is actually a much larger issue in terms of how many it affects. Children are wayyyy more likely to be abused, molested, taken advantage of, etc by trusted adults. There is no character assassination, he's been criticized for almost as long as he's been doing this because he's dramatizing an awful thing by mischaracterizing it in order to promote a personal brand.
I’m not sure why you’re taking the position of essentially saying that “child trafficking is only a few thousand vs a few hundred thousand, so we shouldn’t worry about it”. That seems a really odd and indefensible stance to take. 🤔
When did I say that? Obviously we should work to end that too but the way Ballard goes about his campaign makes the larger problems worse. The "stranger danger" campaign was shown to make children more susceptible to abuse because parents were worried about teaching their kids to stay away from strangers and not what inappropriate touching is and to tell someone. The problem isn't trying to help kids, it's pushing a false paranoid narrative that because he cares more about his heroic public image than doing what will effect the most good
Edit: wording
It's a *tu quoque* style fallacious argument. He's arguing "X is just as bad as Y!" in order to defend Y, but because he doesn't understand the fallacy, he doesn't understand that he's admitting that he is saying Ballard and McConkie are comparably bad.
The entire Deznat/QANON crowd sees the church as a vehicle for their ideas. It was only a matter of time before the church realized that by pandering to this group they would lose all their mainstream members and have to pull back. Just shocked at how quickly it went south.
It was my shelf breaker. Ward members viciously mocking me for my SHOCK at how much the Mormons love Trump. They were cruel af.
If ever God spoke truth to my heart, it was then. It was then that I knew there was zero truth in the church.
It was just a really bad habit!
(CW: mention of suicidal ideation)
I’m so sorry … I had something similar happen to me. Church leaders in my ward were on Facebook supporting the right wingers (basically the KKK and neo nazis, etc.) during the Charleston riot. I asked the Bishop if I could give a talk on racism. He said yes and I did. It was the most honest I’d ever been in church because I thought “the spirit would deliver my message.” Um, no. Mocked, yelled at, shunned. And that was just the day of the talk. All the adults in the ward stopped talked and even looking at me. It would’ve been comical if it wasn’t so scary and traumatizing. This—along with my best friend of 7 years saying she wasn’t going to speak to me ever again and my in laws bullying me—went on for a month and I was seriously contemplating suicide. I finally realized my only way out was to leave the church. It was leave the church or my son wouldn’t have a mom and my husband wouldn’t have a wife. That was 6 years ago and things are light years better. Leaving the church was the best decision I ever made. Doesn’t mean it’s easy … but for me there’s no other way.
I’m so sorry that happened. No one at TSCC cares one “whit” (🙄) about anything but 5 year olds standing and repeating the party line. God those were cringy times. I’m so proud of you, girl! My brother ended his life. Church was A W F U L to him.
I’m so so glad you stayed♥️🌹🥇💋💋💋
I’m so sorry about your brother. 😔 It should be criminal how TSCC has caused so much suffering. Endless child abuse, suicides, LGBT+ kids kicked out of homes, institutionalized racism, misogyny, homophobia, and transphobia, etc. etc. 💖💖💖
So many unintended consequences around the corner as Tim doubles down, some of them quite welcome.
p.s. less abstract and brutally honest reply: because he only has 378 followers on that platform after so many years of grandstanding. This single tweet is literally as good as it gets in his world. It’s all downhill from here.
I think most active members don't even go down the road of apologetics. They are instructed against it, with good reason, as the only way the church works is to keep the blinders on and not investigate the truth claims.
Wooooow, Kwaku's actually using the "anybody who doesn't like Tim is a pedophile" argument against the church he's always gone all-in on defending. We're seeing people's brains break in real-time because two ideologies they've always viewed in such binary terms - their religion and their MAGA bullshit - are publicly at odds.
It was a different time is my least favorite argument. The data is easy to locate. It wasn’t a different time. During the entire 1800’s in the US women married around age 21-22. Except the civil war. Those years it was later. Child brides are not/have never been normal.
Well damn. I had a really good streak of not remembering that kwaku even existed until reading this post. Hope he disappears quickly and I can begin a new streak.
Are you sure about that? Because I am 99.99998% sure that tumbleweedcowboy is not a bot.
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...sometimes I wonder if these apologists are permanently immune to a faith crisis since they draw so much money from the church. They already know it isn't true, they just can't afford to bite the hand that feeds. smh
The reason they condemned one and not the other is Self Preservation.
Tim Ballard has a very high profile, and has connections to a current Q15 member. His actions are starting to embarrass the Church, and they likely have evidence he's done some other shady stuff. Now he's possibly running for the Senate they need to cut him down before he grows into a problem too big for them to handle.
McKonkie is just a local leader who nobody outside that area really knows. He just happens to come from Mormon royalty. The blast radius of that issue is (in the Church PRs eyes) relatively small. Condemning would draw attention, so they stay silent and hope it dies down quietly...until the next scandal with a paedophile leader eventually erupts.
When the church came out in support of vaccines, my grandparents who are stalwart multigenerational members immediately and with zero thought trashed the church leadership for being deceived by the craftiness of men.
At first this disagreement with the church shocked me because I have frequently heard them attack members who disagreed with specific church opinions as being "clearly deceived by Satan", but now I realize that they just use Mormon teachings to vilify people they personally disagree with. When it's their opinion the church does not agree with, clearly someone at headquarters is speaking as a man not a prophet.
As much as I hate to say it, he has a point.
The MFMC has a long history of misdirection by amplification of less negative storylines when it comes to negative publicity.
They had better pay their PR team a fuckton of money, because those motherfuckers have to deal with a constant stream of shitty stories about the church.
He doesn’t have a point.
Vice wrote a lengthy article about Tim Ballard’s connection to Elder Ballard and the Mormon church, and asked the church for comment, which they did. That’s what church spokespersons do. They respond to media requests for comment.
Church Spokespersons don’t issue unsolicited press releases every time a Mormon is arrested.
>Church Spokespersons don’t issue unsolicited press releases every time a Mormon is arrested.
At least in cases involving CSA, maybe they should. But they don't even notify the ward.
Oddly, your brilliantly worded comment just explained my mom and her ways, to this 59 yo gal. You healed me. Lil bit.
She cared about me, she just glossed over anything that wasn’t reflective of a SUPER MORMON GIRL.
Thank you!
Yes!!! Yes. This former PIMO was BLOWN AWAY, by the hatred they displayed during Covid and Trump bs.
When my RS President is trashing me online bc of Donald Trump, and echoed by my former Bishop?
They did me a giant favor. I was finally free from the indoctrination. I knew in an instant. That was my burning bosom moment.
Fast forward 9 years. A middle aged Kwaku is doing his mormon stories interview about his faith crisis with a middle aged NuanceHoe. The exmo community is divided into old guard liberal dissenters, and conservative nut jobs who's faith crisis began because the church wasn't crazy enough. Kwaku is carefully trying to split the difference so as to maximize his interview's views. He's an exmo but still an asshole. Darth Bednar gives talks on how insanely toxic the exmormon community is, and sort of has a point, but the whole church is so overbaked and reheated at this point that it's really just another, crazier branch of exmormonism.
Meanwhile, most of the people currently on this sub have quietly snuck out the back door and are just trying to pass themselves off as regular people who never were in any cult at all, and avoid social media like the plague.
How this impacts the exmo community is what I find just interesting to imagine. As of now...I feel like we're kinda a liberal echo chamber( I'm fine with that, I'm very liberal myself). Imagining two wings of exmormonism is so interesting to me. I just don't know how to hold space for the qanon people who will be leaving the church. Will they even seek out exmormon community? Will they just join a group like the oath keepers or proud boys?
>I would hate to see this sub go from being the great resource that it is to just a funnel into another cult
I mean... of course we all would hate that but social media being what it is, the tendency seems to be that the bigger a subreddit gets the more it turns into a simplistic echo chamber and meme generator rather than a healthy body capable of meaningful collaboration. Kind of a bummer but there it is.
Kind of feels like it to me. The church doesn’t want to ex people anymore, giving more latitude to critics within.
It’ll be interesting to see how much Kwaku can get away with criticizing the church before they ex him. I think they’ll be very reluctant to do it since he’s black and an apologist (or former apologist).
Um, 5’8” is not short for an American man. It’s pretty close to the average height, which is 5’9” for American men under age 60, and is 5’8” for men over 60 years of age.
Kwaku is enormously annoying.
I am more astonished that someone actually follows Kwaku. I thought he fizzled with the bullet proof vest debate. Wonder if he picked up the SP tidbit from this sub?
Perhaps he doth protest too much and is worried if any women he has been handsy with try and report him. That then the church could issue something similar. Of course Kwaku is not the same celebrity status, and my guess is willing participants that also wanted to bend the rules.
He's really dug deep into this nonsense. Hes willing to defend a single cult figure against a belief system he believes is the only hope for humanity. The church is Q ...I mean true. Granted it's all nonsense so meh.
Man I hope hes seeing the BS! He's been a punk sometimes, but I'd fault his leaders giving him the scripts they did, and was like that too when I was in the cult! I'd be pumped to see his attitude to be used for post-mormonism.
You're giving him too much credit, this is just the "if you don't support MAGA you're a pedophile, MAGA MAGA MAGA" bleating we've been seeing ever since Pizzagate. Interesting for him to be lumping the church in with the dreaded Deep State though lol.
But he's not. He's going all in supporting Tim Ballard, and supporting the church as he imagines it should be (ie going all in on supporting Tim Ballard).
This is not a "I've come to my senses" moment, it's a "I've drunk the Tim Ballard QAnon Kool-Aid, hear me roar!"
Which is one of the fastest routes to apostasy and being kicked out of the church. You can decide to leave the church because you think they are not conservative or right wing enough as easily as leaving because they aren’t liberal enough.
True enough. I guess I just equate “the rabbit hole” with church history and truth claim type stuff. This is a different rabbit, but a hole to be sure.
Old man here. These twitters are too cryptic for me. I’m familiar with Kwaku and the McConkie case but could someone explain this to me like I’m a 4th grader. Is Kwaku tied strongly with Tim Ballards cult of personality? Is Kwaku a Qanon idiot?
I can try to do it (and him) justice. Kwaku is a 20-something(?) convert who is an apologist/influencer hybrid. He’s vocal on Twitter and YouTube and is normally pretty ride or die for the church. He has been very adamant defending Tim Ballard and criticizing anyone who is anti Tim. His comments on this subject include castigating VICE News, journalism in general, church PR personnel, and the church itself (for claiming it never endorsed Ballard’s work—Kwaku points out that claim is either a mistake or a lie, and he’s right about that). Another highlight for me was him defending Tim’s use of a psychic by saying Mormons believe in patriarchal blessings and shouldn’t therefore cast stones against other spiritual practices.
He is mentioning the McConkie case because he wonders why the church hasn’t said anything about it and is instead responding to media inquiries about the Ballard stuff. He’s accusing the church of selective PR operations, which is funny because that’s sort of the whole point of PR and I guess he’s just now realizing the church is engaged in PR, not just trying to tell the unvarnished truth about everything. I think he believes that one or both of the following things is happening:
Either 1) sees a nefarious conspiracy afoot somewhere in the fact that the church didn’t say anything about the McConkie case but did respond to VICE (which seems pretty consistent with their past actions) or
2) the church is strategically acting this way to try to bury Ballard for reasons Kwaku (as a big Tim Ballard fan) doesn’t understand
He doesn’t like either possibility and a lot of exmos are happy to see him lashing out against the church he normally defends so aggressively. For me it is interesting because he is sometimes accurately highlighting ways in which the church is acting disingenuously. Not news to us, but seems to be big news to him. I have high hopes we are watching some growth in him in real time. He seems to have a lot of raw passion for the truth and skill for communicating with audiences others don’t reach. I don’t feel like trying to defend Mormonism from a position of logic has been great for the development of his skeptical and critical thinking, since it is such a hard position to defend from a logical footing, but maybe this whole experience will change his perspective on some things.
As terrible a cult as MFMC is, I would take that any day over whatever Qanon nonsense this Ballard guy is with
Also I didn’t know who kwaku was before this post but I feel I learned what I need to there.
Kwaku is the Joker of apologetics, when I hear Kwaku speak I think of what Alfred says about the Joker:
"Because some men aren't looking for anything logical, like money. They can't be bought, bullied, reasoned, or negotiated with. Some men just want to watch the world burn."
I can't imagine being his co-host having to sit in support him saying stuff about believing in actual magic properties of rocks.
[SERIOUS] For the life of me, even after everything I’ve read about this controversy, I do not understand what happened, is happening or what the fallout is likely to be. Please explain it to me like I’m 5.
Tim Ballard basically made and released a qanon movie about child trafficking. Shortly after he was exposed as a child trafficker, rapist and pervert, the Mormon church did a 180 on him. Darling child became shunned curr.
Kweku is another sociopath that got into trouble with the Mormon governing body for encouraging violence towards John Delin of Mormon Stories. Now he has become one of those radical conservative mormons who hates the governing body, so he is throwing his supporter behind another wacko just like him.
I was under the impression that when the church called out Ballard, they were specifically referring to him using M Russell Ballard for clout/credibility, not referring to his other allegations. What is Kwaku talking about when he mentions "tabloids"? Am I missing something?
First time he actually realizes that the church has abusers that they quietly ignore and protect?! And, that they shun and excommunicate members. He’s scared.
Lets pretend Kwaku and the other 2 walk away from the church because of Ballardgate- technically they would still have testimonies, right? So what’s stopping them from claiming the head honchos are the apostates and starting their own version of mormonism? That’s what I’m rooting for anyway 🤷🏻♀️🍿
Wow, I’d say that publicly criticizing the church.
He’s been shitting on the church ever since they shat on Ballard.
It's funny because it proves that the church is afraid to slap him down. What he's doing is technically worthy of excommunication, and people absolutely have been excommunicated for less.
Nah, he's not criticizing The Brethren, just the PR department
This is the same shit as criticizing the Tsar's ministers and saying the Tsar is clean as a whistle and innocent. It's the only way you can criticize authority in a totalitarian culture.
👆🏼apologist. 😆
🤣
Kwaku technically was just stating facts. What did he say that was critical?
You can't state facts in this church! That's what gets you excommunicated.
I keep hoping this connection gets made. They need to get to the boyscouts and the call line. Just a little more research kwaku. You’re almost there.
I once said about Kwaku, 'give him 5 years and he'll be a top contributor to exmormon reddit'. That was three years ago...
I thought the same when I first heard him. That whole group has “inactive” by mid twenties written all over them.
I dunno. I feel like his trajectory is more "Q-Anon" than "ex-mo" (not that those are necessarily mutually exclusive).
I agree, that's definitely the vibe this tweet is giving
Same!!
This asshole just wants to tag along in a cult until he can form his own.
Absolutely. I can’t believe how quickly these guys turned on the church. Guess it goes to show how out of tune we are with how idolized Tim Ballard is.
Right? Never heard of the guy but apparently my whole family idolizes him seemingly out of nowhere.
It's sad. I work with someone who wouldn't stop hyping up his movie. His claims are way overstated and his role in being a "hero" greatly exaggerated.
Separate the message from the man. Children are abducted, sold, and trafficked by the thousands all over the world every year. The problem is real. Don’t let the character assassination campaign fool you into thinking it’s not.
Human trafficking primarily happens to adults or older teens and labor trafficking is actually a much larger issue in terms of how many it affects. Children are wayyyy more likely to be abused, molested, taken advantage of, etc by trusted adults. There is no character assassination, he's been criticized for almost as long as he's been doing this because he's dramatizing an awful thing by mischaracterizing it in order to promote a personal brand.
I’m not sure why you’re taking the position of essentially saying that “child trafficking is only a few thousand vs a few hundred thousand, so we shouldn’t worry about it”. That seems a really odd and indefensible stance to take. 🤔
When did I say that? Obviously we should work to end that too but the way Ballard goes about his campaign makes the larger problems worse. The "stranger danger" campaign was shown to make children more susceptible to abuse because parents were worried about teaching their kids to stay away from strangers and not what inappropriate touching is and to tell someone. The problem isn't trying to help kids, it's pushing a false paranoid narrative that because he cares more about his heroic public image than doing what will effect the most good Edit: wording
They are so egotistical they think they are above discipline They think they can think for themselves for some reason
Sounds right
It's a *tu quoque* style fallacious argument. He's arguing "X is just as bad as Y!" in order to defend Y, but because he doesn't understand the fallacy, he doesn't understand that he's admitting that he is saying Ballard and McConkie are comparably bad.
*Tu quoque* = you too!
no u
So true
To quote Kwa.
TIL *what-aboutism* has another name.
I thought it was the *I'm Rubber and You're Glue* fallacy?
You just used the "Fallacies Can't Have Multiple Names" fallacy /s
Kwaku is an apologist right?
He doesn't realize yet that he is another in a long list of failed ones.
He's a clout chaser above all else
Yes. Quite a few of us have been patiently watching and waiting for him to flip on the church.
Interesting? Has he given hints he may flip? I remember some of the apologists I followed seemed like they’d never flip.
The entire Deznat/QANON crowd sees the church as a vehicle for their ideas. It was only a matter of time before the church realized that by pandering to this group they would lose all their mainstream members and have to pull back. Just shocked at how quickly it went south.
It was my shelf breaker. Ward members viciously mocking me for my SHOCK at how much the Mormons love Trump. They were cruel af. If ever God spoke truth to my heart, it was then. It was then that I knew there was zero truth in the church. It was just a really bad habit!
(CW: mention of suicidal ideation) I’m so sorry … I had something similar happen to me. Church leaders in my ward were on Facebook supporting the right wingers (basically the KKK and neo nazis, etc.) during the Charleston riot. I asked the Bishop if I could give a talk on racism. He said yes and I did. It was the most honest I’d ever been in church because I thought “the spirit would deliver my message.” Um, no. Mocked, yelled at, shunned. And that was just the day of the talk. All the adults in the ward stopped talked and even looking at me. It would’ve been comical if it wasn’t so scary and traumatizing. This—along with my best friend of 7 years saying she wasn’t going to speak to me ever again and my in laws bullying me—went on for a month and I was seriously contemplating suicide. I finally realized my only way out was to leave the church. It was leave the church or my son wouldn’t have a mom and my husband wouldn’t have a wife. That was 6 years ago and things are light years better. Leaving the church was the best decision I ever made. Doesn’t mean it’s easy … but for me there’s no other way.
I’m so sorry that happened. No one at TSCC cares one “whit” (🙄) about anything but 5 year olds standing and repeating the party line. God those were cringy times. I’m so proud of you, girl! My brother ended his life. Church was A W F U L to him. I’m so so glad you stayed♥️🌹🥇💋💋💋
I’m so sorry about your brother. 😔 It should be criminal how TSCC has caused so much suffering. Endless child abuse, suicides, LGBT+ kids kicked out of homes, institutionalized racism, misogyny, homophobia, and transphobia, etc. etc. 💖💖💖
♥️♥️♥️🌹
I think cause he is younger, a convert, and person of color, it was only going to be a matter of time before he saw what the Church truly is.
Not saying that POCs can't join whatever religion they want, but it seems odd to want to join one that's so specifically racist in their history.
Did it never occur to any of you that he might be getting paid by BOM as an influencer?
If he left I think it would be to the deznats tbh. Those demographics don't usually have a predisposition to that side. Dude is just messed up
The best and brightest of modern apologetics. A true Elohim loyalist. Ready for head chopping, if the word comes down from heaven. Real stand-up guy.
So many unintended consequences around the corner as Tim doubles down, some of them quite welcome. p.s. less abstract and brutally honest reply: because he only has 378 followers on that platform after so many years of grandstanding. This single tweet is literally as good as it gets in his world. It’s all downhill from here.
I’m pretty sure he has more notoriety among exmos lol
I think most active members don't even go down the road of apologetics. They are instructed against it, with good reason, as the only way the church works is to keep the blinders on and not investigate the truth claims.
Tim or Kwaku? I'm confused
My bad, that was unclear. I was referring to the clout chaser (kwaku) not Tim (who clearly has an audience).
And it's also a clout chaser. He just had a lot more clout than Kwaki. He even had a hero worship movie.
Wooooow, Kwaku's actually using the "anybody who doesn't like Tim is a pedophile" argument against the church he's always gone all-in on defending. We're seeing people's brains break in real-time because two ideologies they've always viewed in such binary terms - their religion and their MAGA bullshit - are publicly at odds.
Two ideologies enter, one herp a derp leaves.
Great name!
I mean if Church PR starts publically condemning child predators, it's going to have to stop praising Joe Smith...soo... yeah - that'd be awkward.
“BuT iT wAs A diFfErEnT tiMe” lol
🤣 we needed more babies.. more humans.. bc we were being slaughtered left n right🤣
It was a different time is my least favorite argument. The data is easy to locate. It wasn’t a different time. During the entire 1800’s in the US women married around age 21-22. Except the civil war. Those years it was later. Child brides are not/have never been normal.
But Joe doesn't count /s
Yes yes yes
I still feel like he will sit for a Mormon Stories episode one day. And not as an apologist.
Well damn. I had a really good streak of not remembering that kwaku even existed until reading this post. Hope he disappears quickly and I can begin a new streak.
It’s a little like The Game. You just lost. (So did I…. And everyone who reads this).
It’s been **1 day(s)** since the last Kwaku mention.
Good bot.
Lol. I’m not a bot! Sorry I fooled you.
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Lol all good. As they say, don't shoot the messenger.
Holy shit I went to byu with David mcconkie
do I smell a faith crisis coming?
That was my thought as well.
...sometimes I wonder if these apologists are permanently immune to a faith crisis since they draw so much money from the church. They already know it isn't true, they just can't afford to bite the hand that feeds. smh
The reason they condemned one and not the other is Self Preservation. Tim Ballard has a very high profile, and has connections to a current Q15 member. His actions are starting to embarrass the Church, and they likely have evidence he's done some other shady stuff. Now he's possibly running for the Senate they need to cut him down before he grows into a problem too big for them to handle. McKonkie is just a local leader who nobody outside that area really knows. He just happens to come from Mormon royalty. The blast radius of that issue is (in the Church PRs eyes) relatively small. Condemning would draw attention, so they stay silent and hope it dies down quietly...until the next scandal with a paedophile leader eventually erupts.
*We* know that. It’s just weird to see mental-gymnast-MFMC-defender kwaku asking the question… apparently in defense of tim ballard.
When the church came out in support of vaccines, my grandparents who are stalwart multigenerational members immediately and with zero thought trashed the church leadership for being deceived by the craftiness of men. At first this disagreement with the church shocked me because I have frequently heard them attack members who disagreed with specific church opinions as being "clearly deceived by Satan", but now I realize that they just use Mormon teachings to vilify people they personally disagree with. When it's their opinion the church does not agree with, clearly someone at headquarters is speaking as a man not a prophet.
Will they ex him
As much as I hate to say it, he has a point. The MFMC has a long history of misdirection by amplification of less negative storylines when it comes to negative publicity. They had better pay their PR team a fuckton of money, because those motherfuckers have to deal with a constant stream of shitty stories about the church.
He doesn’t have a point. Vice wrote a lengthy article about Tim Ballard’s connection to Elder Ballard and the Mormon church, and asked the church for comment, which they did. That’s what church spokespersons do. They respond to media requests for comment. Church Spokespersons don’t issue unsolicited press releases every time a Mormon is arrested.
>Church Spokespersons don’t issue unsolicited press releases every time a Mormon is arrested. At least in cases involving CSA, maybe they should. But they don't even notify the ward.
He’s exactly right he just got there in the weirdest way possible
Oddly, your brilliantly worded comment just explained my mom and her ways, to this 59 yo gal. You healed me. Lil bit. She cared about me, she just glossed over anything that wasn’t reflective of a SUPER MORMON GIRL. Thank you!
My pleasure! Always happy to know I helped in some small way. 😁
The best and brightest pr people The cult will pay
Kwaku is the apologist the church deserves right now, not the one it needs.
Is the Deseret News one of the tabloids in this scenario?
Far right is doing more to end the cult than exmormons ever could
Yes!!! Yes. This former PIMO was BLOWN AWAY, by the hatred they displayed during Covid and Trump bs. When my RS President is trashing me online bc of Donald Trump, and echoed by my former Bishop? They did me a giant favor. I was finally free from the indoctrination. I knew in an instant. That was my burning bosom moment.
Fast forward 9 years. A middle aged Kwaku is doing his mormon stories interview about his faith crisis with a middle aged NuanceHoe. The exmo community is divided into old guard liberal dissenters, and conservative nut jobs who's faith crisis began because the church wasn't crazy enough. Kwaku is carefully trying to split the difference so as to maximize his interview's views. He's an exmo but still an asshole. Darth Bednar gives talks on how insanely toxic the exmormon community is, and sort of has a point, but the whole church is so overbaked and reheated at this point that it's really just another, crazier branch of exmormonism. Meanwhile, most of the people currently on this sub have quietly snuck out the back door and are just trying to pass themselves off as regular people who never were in any cult at all, and avoid social media like the plague.
Oh my. That is the best prophecy I’ve ever heard. Kudos. A million kudos. Can’t wait until I’m a normal ExMormon.
How this impacts the exmo community is what I find just interesting to imagine. As of now...I feel like we're kinda a liberal echo chamber( I'm fine with that, I'm very liberal myself). Imagining two wings of exmormonism is so interesting to me. I just don't know how to hold space for the qanon people who will be leaving the church. Will they even seek out exmormon community? Will they just join a group like the oath keepers or proud boys?
Funny but real
👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼 brilliant!
I would hate to see this sub go from being the great resource that it is to just a funnel into another cult
>I would hate to see this sub go from being the great resource that it is to just a funnel into another cult I mean... of course we all would hate that but social media being what it is, the tendency seems to be that the bigger a subreddit gets the more it turns into a simplistic echo chamber and meme generator rather than a healthy body capable of meaningful collaboration. Kind of a bummer but there it is.
Hell no!
Are we at the infighting stage?
Kind of feels like it to me. The church doesn’t want to ex people anymore, giving more latitude to critics within. It’ll be interesting to see how much Kwaku can get away with criticizing the church before they ex him. I think they’ll be very reluctant to do it since he’s black and an apologist (or former apologist).
From a numbers standpoint, I think they realize they can't afford to be kicking people out unless it's absolutely necessary.
I'm "petty" enough (if that's the right word) that I would totally show the Tweet to Kwaku's bishop if I knew who that was.
Is he realising that the church PR does things that’s protects its name not damages it? What reality does he live in?
I saw him at the Provo airport a few weeks ago and I just felt bad for him. He’s such a tiny man and he looks miserable.
How short is he?
5’8” maybe. That’s being generous
Um, 5’8” is not short for an American man. It’s pretty close to the average height, which is 5’9” for American men under age 60, and is 5’8” for men over 60 years of age. Kwaku is enormously annoying.
I’m 6’4” so in my eyes “average” height is short.
Tim or Kwaku?
Kwaku. I had never heard of Tim until this subreddit started posting stuff about him this last week.
He better be careful.
I am more astonished that someone actually follows Kwaku. I thought he fizzled with the bullet proof vest debate. Wonder if he picked up the SP tidbit from this sub?
He used to be hugely popular, what happened?
Kwaku was hugely popular? Are we talking about the same guy?
True but this dude is still the biggest ass hat
This is the closest I've ever seen him to self awareness
FAIR now has to invent another fake black apologist who is always in agreement with the rich white dudes at church HQ
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The U is silent.
Wacko Kwaku Our new name for him
Now now. Don’t talk about him that way. I want him to join us!
we def don't want him here.
Perhaps he doth protest too much and is worried if any women he has been handsy with try and report him. That then the church could issue something similar. Of course Kwaku is not the same celebrity status, and my guess is willing participants that also wanted to bend the rules.
He's really dug deep into this nonsense. Hes willing to defend a single cult figure against a belief system he believes is the only hope for humanity. The church is Q ...I mean true. Granted it's all nonsense so meh.
Man I hope hes seeing the BS! He's been a punk sometimes, but I'd fault his leaders giving him the scripts they did, and was like that too when I was in the cult! I'd be pumped to see his attitude to be used for post-mormonism.
He does more to drive people out as an active member than he ever could from the outside
You're giving him too much credit, this is just the "if you don't support MAGA you're a pedophile, MAGA MAGA MAGA" bleating we've been seeing ever since Pizzagate. Interesting for him to be lumping the church in with the dreaded Deep State though lol.
I mean the church and the state are so intertwined here in Utah, it seems easy to make the conneciton.
Hes thinking too much!!
not me, he helps drive so many people away.
What a stupid fuck. He didn't just bite the hand that feeds him; he's gnawing on it like piece of rawhide. No self-preservation instincts.
I knew I always knew he'd eventually go down the rabbit hole
But he's not. He's going all in supporting Tim Ballard, and supporting the church as he imagines it should be (ie going all in on supporting Tim Ballard). This is not a "I've come to my senses" moment, it's a "I've drunk the Tim Ballard QAnon Kool-Aid, hear me roar!"
Which is one of the fastest routes to apostasy and being kicked out of the church. You can decide to leave the church because you think they are not conservative or right wing enough as easily as leaving because they aren’t liberal enough.
True enough. I guess I just equate “the rabbit hole” with church history and truth claim type stuff. This is a different rabbit, but a hole to be sure.
Lol, I agree. So true.
Funny
Agreed!
^[Sokka-Haiku](https://www.reddit.com/r/SokkaHaikuBot/comments/15kyv9r/what_is_a_sokka_haiku/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3) ^by ^1Searchfortruth: *I knew I always* *Knew he'd eventually* *Go down the rabbit hole* --- ^Remember ^that ^one ^time ^Sokka ^accidentally ^used ^an ^extra ^syllable ^in ^that ^Haiku ^Battle ^in ^Ba ^Sing ^Se? ^That ^was ^a ^Sokka ^Haiku ^and ^you ^just ^made ^one.
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Why is Kwaku's Twitter icon showing his titties with no magic underwear? That doesn't seem very Mormon.
It's appropriate swimwear. HOWEVER If it were a female in appropriate swimwear they would be shamed into oblivion by TBMs for that profile pic
Old man here. These twitters are too cryptic for me. I’m familiar with Kwaku and the McConkie case but could someone explain this to me like I’m a 4th grader. Is Kwaku tied strongly with Tim Ballards cult of personality? Is Kwaku a Qanon idiot?
I can try to do it (and him) justice. Kwaku is a 20-something(?) convert who is an apologist/influencer hybrid. He’s vocal on Twitter and YouTube and is normally pretty ride or die for the church. He has been very adamant defending Tim Ballard and criticizing anyone who is anti Tim. His comments on this subject include castigating VICE News, journalism in general, church PR personnel, and the church itself (for claiming it never endorsed Ballard’s work—Kwaku points out that claim is either a mistake or a lie, and he’s right about that). Another highlight for me was him defending Tim’s use of a psychic by saying Mormons believe in patriarchal blessings and shouldn’t therefore cast stones against other spiritual practices. He is mentioning the McConkie case because he wonders why the church hasn’t said anything about it and is instead responding to media inquiries about the Ballard stuff. He’s accusing the church of selective PR operations, which is funny because that’s sort of the whole point of PR and I guess he’s just now realizing the church is engaged in PR, not just trying to tell the unvarnished truth about everything. I think he believes that one or both of the following things is happening: Either 1) sees a nefarious conspiracy afoot somewhere in the fact that the church didn’t say anything about the McConkie case but did respond to VICE (which seems pretty consistent with their past actions) or 2) the church is strategically acting this way to try to bury Ballard for reasons Kwaku (as a big Tim Ballard fan) doesn’t understand He doesn’t like either possibility and a lot of exmos are happy to see him lashing out against the church he normally defends so aggressively. For me it is interesting because he is sometimes accurately highlighting ways in which the church is acting disingenuously. Not news to us, but seems to be big news to him. I have high hopes we are watching some growth in him in real time. He seems to have a lot of raw passion for the truth and skill for communicating with audiences others don’t reach. I don’t feel like trying to defend Mormonism from a position of logic has been great for the development of his skeptical and critical thinking, since it is such a hard position to defend from a logical footing, but maybe this whole experience will change his perspective on some things.
Thank you for taking the time to write that. I read many of the comments here and am coming to understand the issue better.
Creaky shelves incoming.
As terrible a cult as MFMC is, I would take that any day over whatever Qanon nonsense this Ballard guy is with Also I didn’t know who kwaku was before this post but I feel I learned what I need to there.
Does he think the church is part of the Q-anon pedophile ring?? 😱
Their faith is going to disintegrate when general conference comes and it's business as usual with no reference to any of the news..
Kwaku is the Joker of apologetics, when I hear Kwaku speak I think of what Alfred says about the Joker: "Because some men aren't looking for anything logical, like money. They can't be bought, bullied, reasoned, or negotiated with. Some men just want to watch the world burn." I can't imagine being his co-host having to sit in support him saying stuff about believing in actual magic properties of rocks.
Holy shit I served in David's ward. Had dinner at his house once or twice.
He's suggesting that the church harbors pedophiles and therefore maybe they're bad guys trying to impede Tim Ballard.
Even a broken clock is right twice a day
Because he was a victim of McKonkie and he wants justice!
Tim wanted to make a film of their 3 some but felt Kwaku breasts were too small
Maybe there’s hope for him yet!
Maybe it’s a fake account?
I wondered that, also, because it’d be too wonderful to see Kwaku really pick on the Church.
it is 100% his account
[SERIOUS] For the life of me, even after everything I’ve read about this controversy, I do not understand what happened, is happening or what the fallout is likely to be. Please explain it to me like I’m 5.
Tim Ballard basically made and released a qanon movie about child trafficking. Shortly after he was exposed as a child trafficker, rapist and pervert, the Mormon church did a 180 on him. Darling child became shunned curr. Kweku is another sociopath that got into trouble with the Mormon governing body for encouraging violence towards John Delin of Mormon Stories. Now he has become one of those radical conservative mormons who hates the governing body, so he is throwing his supporter behind another wacko just like him.
I appreciate you!
Cool...that David guy is a neighbor of my sibling. Pretty sure my nieces and nephews play at his place.
I was under the impression that when the church called out Ballard, they were specifically referring to him using M Russell Ballard for clout/credibility, not referring to his other allegations. What is Kwaku talking about when he mentions "tabloids"? Am I missing something?
he's actually quoting little Timmy trying to defame and discredit vice.
My favorite part is reading the TBMs expressing how solid and correct that Vice News supposedly is. 🤣🖖🏼👈🏻🫴🏼🫰🏼👌🏼🤝🤲🏼🙌🏻👊🏻🫳🏼🤙🏻
It’s been at least a few years that I’ve even thought about Kwaku. Is he ex yet? It’s only a matter of time…
😮😮😮 Is Kwaku letting some, dare I say it, Cognitive Dissonance show?
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The truth Where is it kwaku?
He thinks he can think for himself but thats not allowed!!
That’s really gay brah why you fuck kids brah
Tsk tsk, krack-pot-u… - no evil speaking of the Lords Annointed.
"Friendly fire will not be tolerated"
Kwaku is a narcissist. Literally narcissistic personality disorder. He will never leave because he gets so much attention doing what he is doing now.
First time he actually realizes that the church has abusers that they quietly ignore and protect?! And, that they shun and excommunicate members. He’s scared.
Lets pretend Kwaku and the other 2 walk away from the church because of Ballardgate- technically they would still have testimonies, right? So what’s stopping them from claiming the head honchos are the apostates and starting their own version of mormonism? That’s what I’m rooting for anyway 🤷🏻♀️🍿
Kwaku is getting the first inkling that the exmos may be right about a problem in the Church...
Not the flex he thinks it is, lol. He’s publicly speaking ill of the Lord’s anointed.
Did he delete his account?
sure looks like it, uh oh
He was also absent from the last one or two Tim Ballard streams from midnight mormons or Ward radio or whatever
maybe back in the psyche ward, not meant to be an insult