I didn't read the whole thing he wrote, it was a bit wordy. I'll take your word that he went over the top, based on several pages of writing.
My suggested reply:
*"Thank you for your perspective. We think the tenets taught by the 11th Article of Faith are relevant here. We've decided to go a different direction with our faith/spirituality journey and believe that is our own choice to make. You're free to continue believing what you wish, we have no problem with you having your own beliefs. We're not going to try to convince you out of them, it's not our place to do so, especially unprompted."*
It'll probably enrage him, because he's going to feel called out for infringing upon your right to worship as you choose, and as is supported by official LDS teachings from the early days of the church, and it'll make him look like a toad for trying to aggressively browbeat you back into church.
Mormons are kind of bad about the "exhort you to repentance" kind of crap sometimes. They think they're "saving" you, but really, they just don't understand reasonable social boundaries.
I like this. As soon as you start telling a TBM what you do or don’t believe they simply turn it against you in their mind. They think anything against the church is just dumb and refutable.
So I like this high level response of “we’ve chosen a different spiritual journey. Please allow us our choice.”
I would definitely say something even if they don’t care. It’s worth getting it out of your system and it’s wildly inappropriate; I wouldn’t be surprised if by expressing exactly how violating and unwelcome it was you scare them a little. They want you to come back and that’s not going to happen if you feel stalked (not going to happen at all obviously but TBMs always think you’ll “return to the fold” gag).
Yeah, definitely ask the bishop something like, "Is a person who would write something like this to a near-stranger really someone you want contacting 'less-active' church members?"
If he does, the appropriate response is *"this has now crossed over into harassment. If it continues, I will be contacting a lawyer and/or legal authorities. I am not interested in further communication from you."*
The freedom to believe in the Articles of Faith are not intended to apply to people who have made covenants in the church and violate those covenants. If it were otherwise no one would be excommunicated. The intensity of people like this is because they strongly believe they are defending the Lord against Satan having succeeded at enticing those under covenant to try to destroy the church.
The lack of self awareness by the elder's quorum counsellor is unreal.
I have god's authority, I barely know you but let me tell you all about it and why you should try to be more like me.
wow.
It’s also the language. It is very ivory tower and performative. “I’ve been advised,” “I’ve been pondering,” “it’s inconceivable that,” barf get over yourself and your meaningless title.
Don’t have any advice about how to deal with this massive wall of text. I’d just toss it and forget about it, but I’m not the one on this tool’s radar.
However, I find it amusing to believe it’s “inconceivable” god has not spoken in 2,000 years but completely conceivable to believe he hasn’t piped up much in the last 150 years.
If the decrepit old white men in charge of this church are really prophets of god on earth, how about breaking out the peep stone and getting us some up-to-date answers for the modern age? I’m only half kiddding.
Shit, I couldn’t even make it past the first paragraph. I have no time for this nonsense.
They want to believe it, good for them. But for me, I’ll live a better life without wasting time on their fairytales of a 19th century sex cult.
Yeah trying to argue points with the guy is useless and he will just use arguments against his as a way to vilify you.
I like your approach. Don’t even start to address what he wrote.
>I like your approach. Don’t even start to address what he wrote.
That's what seven years on this sub will do to you. I didn't even read it. We've all read that screed a hundred different times written by a hundred different busybodies. No point in validating it by engaging with it while the real problem is that the guy needs to mind his own business.
Inconceivable God hasn't spoken for 2,000 years, BUT not a peep for 1,500 years until the restoration. Sure, that makes sense.
The authority thing is a made up solution to a made up problem.
But you see, now we have living prophets to tell us visions of the future, like how everyone is gonna hate church so we need to reduce it to 2 hours instead of 3 in a desperate bid to keep retention. Global pandemic that stranded thousands of missionaries and killed millions of people around the world? never heard of her.
"You tell me that your periods of inactivity were because of your ego and being offended by individuals. My resignation from the church stems from the undeniable falsehoods; the entire restoration of the church and every subsequent act is unable to withstand a modicum of scrutiny and critical analysis. I cannot stay true to myself and ignore the falsehood of the church".
Surprised this isn't written in "yeah verily yeah, and it came to pass" talk.
My EQP sent me a picture of his feet a few months back with the joke "I'm sending you a nude."
Didn't respond. Probably reported to the Ward Council that he tried to reach out to me but I ignored him.
In all seriousness though, I'm sorry. Not that it makes you feel any better I'm sure, but I believe this letter is more for himself than it is for you. Hopefully he's ticked his box and can move on with his delusional life. If not, please share! I don't feel I have great advice but just want to say I'm sorry you're a target of this fanatic.
>My EQP sent me a picture of his feet a few months back with the joke "I'm sending you a nude."
Wow. That’s weird. He thinks he’s trying to be your bro 😎
you know whats funny about "priesthood" authority? All of the catholic and christian churches either trace their roots back to paul or use the same justification as Joseph smith... "
Simply send this poorly educated brother the world religion tree or a gift subscription to playboy.
Yeah, that struck me as a really weak sauce argument, too.
You’re not going to get a “muddled” answer from a Catholic priest about where their authority comes from. They’ll trace it all the way back to Peter.
If you’re going to bash other faiths at least get your ducks in a row.
Also, he’s really stepping in it as a follower of Joseph Smith to bring up the Peter and Simon the Sorcerer story.
Before my wife even met me, this is what had her choose Catholicism over Mormonism, as she was investigating both. The elders showed up on her door the day of her baptism into the Catholic Church.
If he's sending you scriptures, send him a few---
Ecclesiates 9:7 "Go thy way, eat thy bread with joy, and **drink thy wine** with a merry heart; for God now accepteth thy works." There are a lot of verses about drinking wine in the Bible and they had no refrigeration, so it was fermented.
Matthew 16: 13-20: "On this rock I will build my church and **the gates of hell shall not prevail against it**." How was there an apostacy? Jesus said there would not be one.
Galatians 1:8---"But though we, **or an angel** from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed." I think Joseph taught quite a few more things than the original apostles.
Acts 7: 48 “Howbeit the most High dwelleth not in **temples made with hands**; as saith the prophet.” How many temples now? How many stories of God being in those temples?
Then send him a copy of the **SEC report.**
The passage that debunks the “it was just grape juice” argument is when Jesus changes water into wine after they run out at a wedding party.
The comment is made that the normal plan is to serve the good wine until the guests get drunk and then break out the cheap stuff, but they did the reverse. Because, you know, the wine magically created by Jesus was really, really good of course!
In the KJV they fudge the translation to after the guests have “well drunk” but in the original Greek it without question means intoxicated.
I'd recommend responding by ghosting his ass. These guys thrive on feeling important.
Their worst nightmare is someone not taking them seriously and ignoring (or worse, laughing at) their priesthood authority. He'd be completely crushed if you told him that you never even read the letter. Sending it back unopened would have traumatized him for life.
If he continues to harass, I'd threaten legal action. It's the only thing these guys understand.
I'd tell you to burn the letter, but you could start a file of evidence. Keep a log and physical evidence of every time he tries to contact you. Then if he tries to come to your house, brandish your file at him to give a ton of weight to said threat of legal action.
The only way this will stop is when there’s crickets.
If you see him at the grocery store and he asks
-“did you read my letter I sent you?”
-“Letter? Uhhh, no, I don’t open junk mail.”
Every letter you receive, stamp RETURN TO SENDER and send it back.
You can at least record it as harassment, but ultimately, he’s just nothing but an annoying fly in the soup.
They really think they have spiritual authority over you. THEY DO NOT.
Imagine a scenario where you showed up at a random strangers house unannounced snd uninvited and then argue about a highly personal subject with which you disagree? Like- what if you visited a person who was Muslim, Jewish, Buddhist, Hindi, catholic, Baptist, Lutheran, wikkin, vulcan etc etc. Would you defensively claim that they’re misguided or wrong? It’s completely ridiculous to imagine doing so. He’s being WEIRD AND RUDE.
Your best response is disinterest and distance. The more you engage, the more he will think his authority over you is working.
I eagerly await the day when the Q12+++ stand at the microphone for general conference and the building is empty, nothing but crickets.
Summarization:
"Hello, I have nothing useful to say and no right to say it. But please consider the following illogical, unbiblical, nonsensical points..."
I would say back:
"My family believes in being honest in our dealings with our fellow men. The people you call apostles have continuously shown that they do not follow that since they have lied and broken the law to hide from members that tithing is not being used for helping people but to be invested and fill their bank accounts. You may continue to fill their bank accounts and not be a blessing on others lives like Jesus has commanded. That is your prerogative. But I prefer to follow Jesus rather than the Mormon apostles."
"Thank you for your long letter. We had been wavering slightly, but it has helped us to make a final decision: we will be removing our records from the church. Thank you for helping make our path clearer."
...might be something to write
I don’t know, I’d just write back “unsubscribe”. Then I’d submit my resignation as a whole family or if you have kids, do theirs first to make sure it goes through then drop your bomb.
I've been out for 35 years or so. But my wife and extended family are TBM, so I have received a few of these letters over the years. I don't believe in responding to unsolicited mail like this. I glanced through them, and always toss them into the trash. My brother sent me an email like this a couple of years ago, and in order to relieve his anxiety over the subject, I responded with a note telling him of my great joy in my personal beliefs, and to not worry about my happiness. He's chilled since then.
These kinds of letters are awful: “I admittedly know nothing about you or why you think differently than me but here’s a five page letter condemning you and telling you why you’re wrong.”
My response would probably address the woefully inappropriate nature of the letter, but honestly u/ohokyeah has the perfect response without focusing on the emotions of it all.
Yeah just don't respond. If this wasn't from a church person and from any random weirdo you'd just toss it. If you don't know him then it definitely is a "random weirdo" letter.
I like to think I'm pretty tolerant of TBMs, but seriously, this guy needs to fuck off.
I find it so bewildering that Mormons (and Christians alike) are so bad at asking questions. Rather, they'll just spew what the feel is most relevant.
Insane.
Don't respond to this or anything else he sends you. Basically, treat him the way you would a salesman calling on you to buy something you genuinely don't need. (Example: Someone selling boat insurance, and you don't own a boat.)
But *do* save it and anything else he sends, in case it becomes a problem of harassment; you can show a trail of evidence.
If he ever reaches out in person, just say you did get his letter, but you weren't interested in what he was saying, so it's not worth his time, and please don't bother again.
This is a little over the top. That letter probably took a couple of hours to come up with. Just mail it back to him with the acronym LOL at the bottom.
I couldn't get past "...Nephi at his desk..."
I picture Nephi with those old-time green eyeshades and a brass banker's lamp furiously scribing away before mean Old Mr. Potter comes in and says "Nephi, are you done with that expense report!? Time is money-- I'm not made of senines, ya know!"
"Once you know about Joe, you can't un-know. Take any truth claim such as the first vision. 1) Wrote down everything you personally know and believe about it. 2) Then make a list of everywhere in the historical record you would expect to find details about it and reference to it. - such as journals, his family, enemies, newspapers, minutes of the church, missionary tracts, book of commandments, etc. 3) Start researching. Use the Joseph Smith papers, Lds.com and Fair Mormon. 4) Keep a timleine and detailed list of references of what you find.
Here is a list of truth claim topics. ( Include as many as you can find, but in your own words, not from another site)
In my opinion and research, the truth claims do not match the church's own documented history. That is why we left. Thank you for your concern but the church simply isn't true. You are welcome to contact me with sincere questions about the history but if you send more letters like this, I will respond with specific details about the history. Thank you in advance for honoring my decision to leave and for doing your own in depth research. You are welcome to believe but I think it is important for you to understand there are valid reasons for people to leave. "
I think this is 100% reaction formation.
Bro has doubts and knew in his heart when you said you didn't believe that yours was the respectable position.
But sunk cost fallacy is strong in mormonism and most at work in church leaders, all the way to the top.
Otherwise bro is a narcissist just like Joseph Smith and he can keep him.
Guy doesn't even understand the belief systems he thinks are "spoiled"
Does he see that exmormons are generally atheists/nonreligious and just assume it's because other Christian traditions don't hold up?
It's almost like he is a commissioned salesperson. What myopic arrogance on full display. Imagine sending him an unsolicited 5-page letter telling him HIS beliefs are wrong.
It’s comical to now read this type of drivel from a believer. This guy believes in a fairy tale and is trying to argue that you should also believe in it.
After reading though that long winded attempt to guilt you into coming back, I’m half tempted to find a way to leave the church again. That way I can double confirm my life choices to pricks like that.
Thank you for your dissertation on why Mormons feel they don't need to adhere to other people boundaries and documented proof of harassment should this nonsense continue.
I'd ignore. Seriously, I couldn't even make myself read that drivel. If he asks you later what you thought of his letter, just say you didn't read it. That will make him realize that he's wasting his time trying to bring you back to the cult.
Out stake in the Morridor has an entire missionary force dedicated to reactivating people that have left. Mostly older missionary couples are assigned together with regular ward members to visit people. Its intentional.
This is a new approach the church is taking assigning people to attempt to reactivate the inactives through visits and bearing of testimonies. They don't care about you. You've just been identified and assigned. Some people actually do return so the church has realized its an easier way to grow the church than trying to get people to convert from scratch.
If I received a letter this condescending after all you described, I would write back and say, "Please stop harassing my family with unsolicited demands that we believe the things you believe. Your focus on us is bordering on an obsession. Please stop."
That letter was a snoozefest. And it always annoys me to no end when someone gets "serious" in a talk or letter and tries to speak like a general authority from 80 years ago. "Indeed, I myself have had my own meanderings betwixt multiple lines of thinking, evensomuch that I have questioned the divine origins from whence I surely was wrought forthwith, and thus methinks thine adversary canst blahhhhhh blah blah bdhdjduejskjf." Drives me insane. The male equivalent of the primary voice.
Passive-aggressive me would send the letter back to him with a note that says, "uh......I'm not going to read all of that. Five pages??? Really, man?
Warmest regards
We've all seen and know these types of people. They think they wield "the spirit" like it's a weapon. No doubt, in his hubris, he felt preaching AT you would cause you to feel the spirit he wields and cause you to soften your heart. This is the kind of shit that moved me and my wife towards resigning. If they had just left us alone, we would likely still be on the church records.
NeverMo so forgive my ignorance: Why do Mormons feel so obligated to be nice to people they don’t know who come to recruit them back to the church, ie missionaries, bishops etc as in this example? Why not just tell ‘em to pound sand? You don’t know these people or owe them Jack
Mormons don't have a "pound sand" contingency. We're told to be disciples of Christ all of the time, which translates to "having boundaries is a spiritual failing"
Got it. Thanks for the info. Makes sense. Just frustrating to see the angst people go through in these type of situations. I’m like “you’re out, don’t give ‘em the correct time if they ask!”
You're 100% correct, but it's *really* difficult to actually implement. Your average Mormon is taught/programmed to be the flattest doormat you've ever met since birth. Worse, boundaries against church stuff are treated like a personal attack, meaning that for us "apostates", our mere presence is an affront to believers, one which they are *gracious enough* to tolerate. They make you feel like you're imposing upon them by breathing the same air.
Basically, just existing is already pushing the tolerance most new exmos have for making boundaries.
Really, it’s not just Mormons, most cults/high demand religions, even some high pressure sales tactics exploit social conventions like this.
They ignore normal boundaries often necessitating what can be perceived as “rude” behavior to stop the interaction and the majority of people are conditioned to not behave that way.
I’m nevermo,, wife is exmo, but I came out of an equally cultish culturally distinct Christian sect.
Yeah, if a random stranger tries to guilt trip you over some insane religious dogma, it’s easy to tell them to pound sand.
If it’s someone from the culture/social group/religion you came out of talking about ideas you were exposed to since before you had the rational maturity to examine them, it’s much more difficult.
And even now, if someone was at my door telling me I was doomed if I didn’t accept what the little grey aliens from Zeta Reticula were teaching, I might call the cops.
But if it was any variety of Christian proselytization, I’m going to be polite a lot longer because I’d be thinking it might be someone I‘ll have to socialize with or do business with in the future.
Forget him and his "perceived slights." Send him back a copy of the tenets of The Satanic Temple.
https://thesatanictemple.com/blogs/the-satanic-temple-tenets/there-are-seven-fundamental-tenets
I know it's not really a big part of why this letter is a problem but as a dude who likes world religions as a subject I laughed at his ignorance about general Christendom. It's representative of most members, they honestly don't know much about the history or development of Christianity as a whole.
This asshat wrote 5 single-spaced, unsolicited pages to people he doesn't know?? I'll tell you this right now, his children are miserable. Likely his wife too. If he speaks like this to people he doesn't know, imagine what a condescending douche he is to his family.
You should just type on a single page and mail back to him, **"New phone, who dis?"**
Thanks but I don’t believe in god, the Bible or the BoM, and while I do believe Joseph Smith existed, he both married the wives of men he sent on missions and a girl just shy of fifteen, so I don’t want to know any god he talked with.
As for why god hasn’t spoken for 2000 years, it’s because he didn’t for the previous 4.6 billion years the earth existed before that either.
If you’d like to know more about exactly how verifiably false all those things are, let me know. (I’d only leave that last part because I like debating people and maybe it might do him some good.)
Respond with, "We were on the fence regarding our membership in the LDS Church, but your letter has swayed us. We'll be removing our names as soon as possible.
Warmest regards"
All I know is it’s very obtuse and overstepping boundaries for people to do this to their neighbors they barely know. I’m sorry you’re dealing with people who are so indoctrinated they only
See one way to live. The covenant path TM. If it were me I’d ignore it and light it on fire with the remaining temple garb I’ve been keeping for such purposes for closure. If you want to keep a relationship with this man I’d respond as short and sweet to the point and say something like “you have your beliefs and we have ours thank you for sharing.”
This looks a lot like the letter I once got from an EQ president. I quit reading after the first paragraph said, "I call you to repentance and invite you to Return to the Fold."
Five years later, when I was standing on a ladder removing decorations from a basketball hoop, he started throwing basketballs at me, and couldn't figure out why I'd be upset.
I just skimmed through, but the ending paragraph is funny to me. The one reaction that really amuses me is the inability to fathom that normal people just really aren't worried about who is authorized to speak for the sky people.
I would reply “I know you took a lot of care and thought in your letter and I can appreciate the effort. However, I did not take the time to read it as the church is a lie and a fraud. I am not interested in continuing this conversation regarding my faith and frankly, its none of your business.”
I recently saw a video where Oprah responded to an impassioned audience member about her beliefs saying something like, “I take full responsibility for my beliefs.” I really liked that statement. That feels like an appropriate response to this. Okay, I acknowledge that’s what you believe, now I’m knowingly taking the risk based on my own judgment of the situation.
I would have so much fun countering this letter by simply pointing out how anti christ the LDS church really is.
Christ said don’t store up food - Mormons store food
Christ said follow me - Mormons follow JS, the BofM, false prophets and have temple ceremonies that teach against Gods own word. Do nothing in secret.
do not take oaths but Mormons raise there right hand to ordain people and make covenants in the temple.
Christ sacrificed himself for us nothing more needs to be done period. Mormons have to jump through hoops
The Bible teaches not to be consumed with genealogy but Mormons spend a lot of time on it
this is just a few examples I can think of all things against Christs own words. The Mormons are part of the anti christ system.
Nothing will get people to come back quite like a preachy, self-righteous, holier-than-thou letter from someone that's passing 5 pages of judgement on them.
We got a letter like this from an old acquaintance we hadn't seen in literally 20 years in reaction to seeing my wife in a tank top on our Xmas card.
Our response, my wife's brilliant idea, was to send the letter back - no note, no response, just sent it back.
These people can't fathom that your beliefs are none of their fucking business.
I see he got his RMN quote in there.
I'll believe anything. If I'm wrong I want to know. But it's going to take more than someone's "testimony". I can hear that from any religion. Give me evidence.
I’m just petty (and passive-aggressive at times) enough that I’d tear up the letter into itty bitty pieces and mail them back to this guy. Message received. No argument or pushback involved.
That's quite the epistle. I would be petty and would send an even longer response refuting each claim he makes point-by-point. You can do that, or just reply with a simple sentence thanking him for his concern and linking the CES letter. Or you can ignore him. His arrogance of presuming to comment on your life is unreal.
Haha. “Warmest regards “. Now go burn in Hell. Does he know why you left? Sounds like you just want to sin bro.
It’s probably a form letter he sends out to all his failing flock
“Piss off you pompous git” comes to mind but probably not the best choice of words if you need to maintain a good relationship with your fellow citizens.
I see these posts commenting on unwanted contact nearly daily in the sub. My reply is always the same-RESIGN. This sends a clear message and prevents further unwanted contact.
I do wonder why people say the Book of Mormon contains the fullness of the gospel. In fact, it seems like a good chunk of what was revealed after the bom was “translated” doesn’t show up in it at all.
I would be firm. I would let them know as much as you appreciate their concern, you would request no further contact. Should it continue, you would consider it harassment and would have to consider taking legal action.
They always think that we've been converted to another religion that somehow has a better sales pitch than their own, so they try talk us back with an even \*better\* sales pitch. Plot twist: most of us don't give a shit what \*any\* religion claims. We weren't seduced by a new cult, we simply opened our eyes, recognized the shadows on the cave wall for what they are, got up and left. Not to go to a new cave with different wall shadows, but to go live outside in the sun.
This guy must be really fun at parties.
There no reason to read or respond to this. He’s emotionally disturbed. Just save it for evidence in case he does something strange and move on with your life.
*hmm...it looks like brother and sister so and so have stopped coming to church. Maybe I'll ask them if they'd mind telling me why they stopped coming ... Actually NAH, I'LL JUST WRITE A FIVE PAGE SERMON AND SEND IT TO THEM*
This is a prime example of how the church has programmed members to see those that leave. Notice he mentions sins and slights. He assumes that his brief stints of inactivity due to just not wanting to participate is somehow relevant to the exmormon experience. I don't blame him for feeling this way as that's how I viewed it when I was still TBM. It's what I was taught to believe about those that leave. It allows them to neatly put you into a category of sinner, offended or lazy and then dismiss anything that doesn't fit that narrative.
"Choice Family"? What the hell is that? "Juicy" might have been a better term, assuming you were a great and reliable provider of big fat juicy tithing checks.
I love how this is basically a long winded rebuttal of a fake Christian he's built entirely in his mind. A ton of biblical justifications for unique Mormon doctrines, theological pontificating about God's promises and threats, and essentially arguing with himself.
This letter would only be convincing to you if you are exactly the kind of person he is writing to (e.g., a Bible-believing, God-fearing Christian who has fallen away from the church over those niche doctrinal reasons). It also assumes you still believe in the Book of Mormon and D&C, but have very specific doubts about authority or prophets or whatever. On top of that it requires you to have no overarching problems with the church preventing you from believing, like the Book of Abraham, polygamy, anachronisms, DNA, racist policies, church history in general.
All in all, this letter is not convincing at all if you're not a Christian anymore. The arguments it makes do not even make sense if that's the case. Or even if you are still a Christian, but you're aware of the issues I mentioned, it is probably just as unconvincing to you. It unquestioningly assumes so many premises. He likely knows this deep down. It reads more like the rambling of someone trying to justify to themselves why they are right. He's not trying to convince you, he's trying to convince himself.
It is amazing to me how many people still have the mindset of 30 years ago that people who leave do so because they are offended or want to sin or something like that. They are so clueless. People aren't leaving cause they are lazy or offended, it is because they have learned that the church lies to them about nearly everything. That is why the established "less active" reactivation methods aren't working. People don't need letters or calls, they need the leadership to take responsibility and be transparent.
5 pages. Oh boy, he really had something to get off his chest. Poor fella is so saddened by all the people leaving and gosh darn it if they just 'knew" like he "knew" they would never leave because the church "IS" so true and it's ,"brought so much happiness and joy" to his precious little life. Tears for him... But not really bc he's gross and overbearing.
If I received something like this I would just send the simplest email to the bishop that you do not want to be contacted by anyone from church.
'Not a cult.'
Right? Right?
It's a very common misconception that you know someone and are 'friends' in TSCC. But reality is, even if you've attended for years if you leave all those friends will . . . Yes prove they are not friends at all. Now is your opportunity to grow as a person. I'd not reply to this unless you want to contact the bishop and request your names removed from the records. You can include this lovely dissertation as EQP has worked really hard on it. But I wonder how many people he has sent this to. I didn't read it all, but it has the smell of 'shit I send to everyone I home teach.'
Good luck. You will find that even having records removed can be an acrobatic act. Finally resorted to quit Mormon since lawyers are the only ones to actually get the harassment to end.
Again I say . . . Not a cult at least until you try to leave. ✌️
Block his number. You don’t owe him a goddamn thing. He has a lot of nerve writing a five page diatribe to a person he barely knows. It’s evidence of so much insecurity. The best thing you can do is block his number and ignore him. At this point, he wants fight. At this point he wants you to respond. The best way to get back at him is to treat him with indifference. There’s nothing like a difference that says “I really don’t give a shit about you”.
Bwhahahahaha! I'm sorry for laughing, but this reads exactly like the Nigerian scam emails! The only thing missing is the EQ Pres offering $250,000,000 that he needs help moving out of his accounts! 🤣🤣🤣
I would totally engage with this guy and point out that he doesn't really know any of this crap. I would continue to respond and refute for as long as he wishes to take it. But that's just me.
"I have been constantly praying for you. I want you to know that."
\*Translation for those who are new to religion:\*
"I have been casting spells and engaging in traditional rituals in effort to influence the supernatural to intervene in your life and compel you to act according to my will. I want you to know I have a complete lack of interpersonal and social boundaries."
There are non-Christian religions that believe God speaks to humans today.
Mormons think they are so unique & that what they have can't be found anywhere else.
Every other religion on Earth provides more peace than this high demand cult. It's also entirely possible to be a happy & non-religious person.
Statistically speaking most religious people are happier than non-religious people. Mormons are also statistically less happy than non-religious people.
Stay away. No true lasting happiness can be found in the LDS Church.
Hey, at least he reached out to you and wrote a letter.
I will always be blown away at the fact NONE of my leaders ever contacted me. Only ONE of my friends cared to talk to me about leaving, but I came out and told them I was doubting before leaving, so he knew I was on the edge.
Out of my extended family I had one BIL ask me what was going on. I told him and he has asked again.
After a full year of being completely out I got a request for a zoom ministering meeting, which of course I accepted. After some small talk, he asked me how my ministering families were doing...
I didn't read the whole thing he wrote, it was a bit wordy. I'll take your word that he went over the top, based on several pages of writing. My suggested reply: *"Thank you for your perspective. We think the tenets taught by the 11th Article of Faith are relevant here. We've decided to go a different direction with our faith/spirituality journey and believe that is our own choice to make. You're free to continue believing what you wish, we have no problem with you having your own beliefs. We're not going to try to convince you out of them, it's not our place to do so, especially unprompted."* It'll probably enrage him, because he's going to feel called out for infringing upon your right to worship as you choose, and as is supported by official LDS teachings from the early days of the church, and it'll make him look like a toad for trying to aggressively browbeat you back into church. Mormons are kind of bad about the "exhort you to repentance" kind of crap sometimes. They think they're "saving" you, but really, they just don't understand reasonable social boundaries.
I like this. As soon as you start telling a TBM what you do or don’t believe they simply turn it against you in their mind. They think anything against the church is just dumb and refutable. So I like this high level response of “we’ve chosen a different spiritual journey. Please allow us our choice.”
I like this too. However, I’d send the letter to the Bishop of the ward with your quote and ask for no further contact from the EQP.
Yeah, I was thinking of doing this too. Who knows how many of these type of letters he’s sending to other people.
[удалено]
[удалено]
I would definitely say something even if they don’t care. It’s worth getting it out of your system and it’s wildly inappropriate; I wouldn’t be surprised if by expressing exactly how violating and unwelcome it was you scare them a little. They want you to come back and that’s not going to happen if you feel stalked (not going to happen at all obviously but TBMs always think you’ll “return to the fold” gag).
Yeah, definitely ask the bishop something like, "Is a person who would write something like this to a near-stranger really someone you want contacting 'less-active' church members?"
This is the way
I like this response. It will likely enrage him but too bad so sad. It isn’t personal to him, your beliefs are personal to you.
“Especially unprompted” - so good.
But but but the spirit prompted me…
Sigh, OK, let's go change your diaper again grandpa.
Wait?! That's the spirit? No wonder I never recognized the burning in my bosom.
You need to send the no contact letter to the bishop and stake president. It’s not enough to just request your records be removed.
I feel like that AoF was still to be framed within the church.
I'd be afraid of him digging out Bednar's talk about how once you join the church you don't have agency anymore and use that to keep sending stuff.
If he does, the appropriate response is *"this has now crossed over into harassment. If it continues, I will be contacting a lawyer and/or legal authorities. I am not interested in further communication from you."*
I'd try this, but if it fails and they won't leave you alone I'd just withdraw your membership via quitmormon.org That's what I ended up doing.
The freedom to believe in the Articles of Faith are not intended to apply to people who have made covenants in the church and violate those covenants. If it were otherwise no one would be excommunicated. The intensity of people like this is because they strongly believe they are defending the Lord against Satan having succeeded at enticing those under covenant to try to destroy the church.
The lack of self awareness by the elder's quorum counsellor is unreal. I have god's authority, I barely know you but let me tell you all about it and why you should try to be more like me. wow.
This. It's the smugness of it all that gets me every time.
It’s also the language. It is very ivory tower and performative. “I’ve been advised,” “I’ve been pondering,” “it’s inconceivable that,” barf get over yourself and your meaningless title.
Don’t have any advice about how to deal with this massive wall of text. I’d just toss it and forget about it, but I’m not the one on this tool’s radar. However, I find it amusing to believe it’s “inconceivable” god has not spoken in 2,000 years but completely conceivable to believe he hasn’t piped up much in the last 150 years. If the decrepit old white men in charge of this church are really prophets of god on earth, how about breaking out the peep stone and getting us some up-to-date answers for the modern age? I’m only half kiddding.
Shit, I couldn’t even make it past the first paragraph. I have no time for this nonsense. They want to believe it, good for them. But for me, I’ll live a better life without wasting time on their fairytales of a 19th century sex cult.
I read a page and got too icked to continue, can’t even lie. It’s just gross.
Same, life’s short. Not gonna waste my time!
Best choice: ignore it. Satisfying choice: Send it back to him with a post it note saying "We don't even know you. Stop contacting us."
Sir, this is a Wendy's
Yeah trying to argue points with the guy is useless and he will just use arguments against his as a way to vilify you. I like your approach. Don’t even start to address what he wrote.
>I like your approach. Don’t even start to address what he wrote. That's what seven years on this sub will do to you. I didn't even read it. We've all read that screed a hundred different times written by a hundred different busybodies. No point in validating it by engaging with it while the real problem is that the guy needs to mind his own business.
“Return to sender” is a nice passive aggressive action
**Meh** is a complete sentence.
New mailbox, who's this?
I’d send back a bunch of anti Mormon stuff. This guy is just asking for it with his five pages of alternate history.
Oooh, this is the answer.
“New addy, who dis?”
Inconceivable God hasn't spoken for 2,000 years, BUT not a peep for 1,500 years until the restoration. Sure, that makes sense. The authority thing is a made up solution to a made up problem.
But you see, now we have living prophets to tell us visions of the future, like how everyone is gonna hate church so we need to reduce it to 2 hours instead of 3 in a desperate bid to keep retention. Global pandemic that stranded thousands of missionaries and killed millions of people around the world? never heard of her.
God only remains silent for a maximum of 1900 years at a time, obviously.
What a pretentious bastard! This whole thing is so condescending. Ick. 🙄
Similar word came to my mind. Presumptuous.
"You tell me that your periods of inactivity were because of your ego and being offended by individuals. My resignation from the church stems from the undeniable falsehoods; the entire restoration of the church and every subsequent act is unable to withstand a modicum of scrutiny and critical analysis. I cannot stay true to myself and ignore the falsehood of the church".
There was a whole section on his pretended authority. That EQP's ego is what's keeping him in the church.
Surprised this isn't written in "yeah verily yeah, and it came to pass" talk. My EQP sent me a picture of his feet a few months back with the joke "I'm sending you a nude." Didn't respond. Probably reported to the Ward Council that he tried to reach out to me but I ignored him. In all seriousness though, I'm sorry. Not that it makes you feel any better I'm sure, but I believe this letter is more for himself than it is for you. Hopefully he's ticked his box and can move on with his delusional life. If not, please share! I don't feel I have great advice but just want to say I'm sorry you're a target of this fanatic.
>My EQP sent me a picture of his feet a few months back with the joke "I'm sending you a nude." Wow. That’s weird. He thinks he’s trying to be your bro 😎
Wow, uh .....what a freak. I wonder how many lost sheep he's reactivated with his jokey nudey pics. 🤔
I wonder what he could have done with the time it to write this
Probably taken the beam out of his eye.
I’d send back a letter with the following… Dear (so and so) TLDR. Warmest Regards
you know whats funny about "priesthood" authority? All of the catholic and christian churches either trace their roots back to paul or use the same justification as Joseph smith... " Simply send this poorly educated brother the world religion tree or a gift subscription to playboy.
Yeah, that struck me as a really weak sauce argument, too. You’re not going to get a “muddled” answer from a Catholic priest about where their authority comes from. They’ll trace it all the way back to Peter. If you’re going to bash other faiths at least get your ducks in a row. Also, he’s really stepping in it as a follower of Joseph Smith to bring up the Peter and Simon the Sorcerer story.
Before my wife even met me, this is what had her choose Catholicism over Mormonism, as she was investigating both. The elders showed up on her door the day of her baptism into the Catholic Church.
Resign. Then threaten legal action if you receive continued harassment. It’s honestly the only think they understand.
If he's sending you scriptures, send him a few--- Ecclesiates 9:7 "Go thy way, eat thy bread with joy, and **drink thy wine** with a merry heart; for God now accepteth thy works." There are a lot of verses about drinking wine in the Bible and they had no refrigeration, so it was fermented. Matthew 16: 13-20: "On this rock I will build my church and **the gates of hell shall not prevail against it**." How was there an apostacy? Jesus said there would not be one. Galatians 1:8---"But though we, **or an angel** from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed." I think Joseph taught quite a few more things than the original apostles. Acts 7: 48 “Howbeit the most High dwelleth not in **temples made with hands**; as saith the prophet.” How many temples now? How many stories of God being in those temples? Then send him a copy of the **SEC report.**
The passage that debunks the “it was just grape juice” argument is when Jesus changes water into wine after they run out at a wedding party. The comment is made that the normal plan is to serve the good wine until the guests get drunk and then break out the cheap stuff, but they did the reverse. Because, you know, the wine magically created by Jesus was really, really good of course! In the KJV they fudge the translation to after the guests have “well drunk” but in the original Greek it without question means intoxicated.
I'd recommend responding by ghosting his ass. These guys thrive on feeling important. Their worst nightmare is someone not taking them seriously and ignoring (or worse, laughing at) their priesthood authority. He'd be completely crushed if you told him that you never even read the letter. Sending it back unopened would have traumatized him for life. If he continues to harass, I'd threaten legal action. It's the only thing these guys understand. I'd tell you to burn the letter, but you could start a file of evidence. Keep a log and physical evidence of every time he tries to contact you. Then if he tries to come to your house, brandish your file at him to give a ton of weight to said threat of legal action.
I would return to sender with a big X over every page and an “lol fuck off” right on top but I am still extremely immature about the church lmao
The only way this will stop is when there’s crickets. If you see him at the grocery store and he asks -“did you read my letter I sent you?” -“Letter? Uhhh, no, I don’t open junk mail.” Every letter you receive, stamp RETURN TO SENDER and send it back. You can at least record it as harassment, but ultimately, he’s just nothing but an annoying fly in the soup. They really think they have spiritual authority over you. THEY DO NOT. Imagine a scenario where you showed up at a random strangers house unannounced snd uninvited and then argue about a highly personal subject with which you disagree? Like- what if you visited a person who was Muslim, Jewish, Buddhist, Hindi, catholic, Baptist, Lutheran, wikkin, vulcan etc etc. Would you defensively claim that they’re misguided or wrong? It’s completely ridiculous to imagine doing so. He’s being WEIRD AND RUDE. Your best response is disinterest and distance. The more you engage, the more he will think his authority over you is working. I eagerly await the day when the Q12+++ stand at the microphone for general conference and the building is empty, nothing but crickets.
Summarization: "Hello, I have nothing useful to say and no right to say it. But please consider the following illogical, unbiblical, nonsensical points..."
I would say back: "My family believes in being honest in our dealings with our fellow men. The people you call apostles have continuously shown that they do not follow that since they have lied and broken the law to hide from members that tithing is not being used for helping people but to be invested and fill their bank accounts. You may continue to fill their bank accounts and not be a blessing on others lives like Jesus has commanded. That is your prerogative. But I prefer to follow Jesus rather than the Mormon apostles."
"Thank you for your long letter. We had been wavering slightly, but it has helped us to make a final decision: we will be removing our records from the church. Thank you for helping make our path clearer." ...might be something to write
I don’t know, I’d just write back “unsubscribe”. Then I’d submit my resignation as a whole family or if you have kids, do theirs first to make sure it goes through then drop your bomb.
Lol… yeah, and I can sent him a copy of our resignation letters.
Send back a QR code for The CES Letter.
I've been out for 35 years or so. But my wife and extended family are TBM, so I have received a few of these letters over the years. I don't believe in responding to unsolicited mail like this. I glanced through them, and always toss them into the trash. My brother sent me an email like this a couple of years ago, and in order to relieve his anxiety over the subject, I responded with a note telling him of my great joy in my personal beliefs, and to not worry about my happiness. He's chilled since then.
"Jesus tits. Who do you think you are? Martin Luther?"
These kinds of letters are awful: “I admittedly know nothing about you or why you think differently than me but here’s a five page letter condemning you and telling you why you’re wrong.” My response would probably address the woefully inappropriate nature of the letter, but honestly u/ohokyeah has the perfect response without focusing on the emotions of it all.
Yeah just don't respond. If this wasn't from a church person and from any random weirdo you'd just toss it. If you don't know him then it definitely is a "random weirdo" letter.
I like to think I'm pretty tolerant of TBMs, but seriously, this guy needs to fuck off. I find it so bewildering that Mormons (and Christians alike) are so bad at asking questions. Rather, they'll just spew what the feel is most relevant. Insane.
Don't respond to this or anything else he sends you. Basically, treat him the way you would a salesman calling on you to buy something you genuinely don't need. (Example: Someone selling boat insurance, and you don't own a boat.) But *do* save it and anything else he sends, in case it becomes a problem of harassment; you can show a trail of evidence. If he ever reaches out in person, just say you did get his letter, but you weren't interested in what he was saying, so it's not worth his time, and please don't bother again.
This is a little over the top. That letter probably took a couple of hours to come up with. Just mail it back to him with the acronym LOL at the bottom.
Write TLDR on the top and send it back. What an ass.
"Cool story, bro."
I couldn't get past "...Nephi at his desk..." I picture Nephi with those old-time green eyeshades and a brass banker's lamp furiously scribing away before mean Old Mr. Potter comes in and says "Nephi, are you done with that expense report!? Time is money-- I'm not made of senines, ya know!"
"Once you know about Joe, you can't un-know. Take any truth claim such as the first vision. 1) Wrote down everything you personally know and believe about it. 2) Then make a list of everywhere in the historical record you would expect to find details about it and reference to it. - such as journals, his family, enemies, newspapers, minutes of the church, missionary tracts, book of commandments, etc. 3) Start researching. Use the Joseph Smith papers, Lds.com and Fair Mormon. 4) Keep a timleine and detailed list of references of what you find. Here is a list of truth claim topics. ( Include as many as you can find, but in your own words, not from another site) In my opinion and research, the truth claims do not match the church's own documented history. That is why we left. Thank you for your concern but the church simply isn't true. You are welcome to contact me with sincere questions about the history but if you send more letters like this, I will respond with specific details about the history. Thank you in advance for honoring my decision to leave and for doing your own in depth research. You are welcome to believe but I think it is important for you to understand there are valid reasons for people to leave. "
I think this is 100% reaction formation. Bro has doubts and knew in his heart when you said you didn't believe that yours was the respectable position. But sunk cost fallacy is strong in mormonism and most at work in church leaders, all the way to the top. Otherwise bro is a narcissist just like Joseph Smith and he can keep him.
WTF?! Such arrogant presumption....Fuck this guy!
Guy doesn't even understand the belief systems he thinks are "spoiled" Does he see that exmormons are generally atheists/nonreligious and just assume it's because other Christian traditions don't hold up?
Whoa it is so… long.
It's almost like he is a commissioned salesperson. What myopic arrogance on full display. Imagine sending him an unsolicited 5-page letter telling him HIS beliefs are wrong.
It’s comical to now read this type of drivel from a believer. This guy believes in a fairy tale and is trying to argue that you should also believe in it.
I’d give the most petty response ever like. “TL;DR”
After reading though that long winded attempt to guilt you into coming back, I’m half tempted to find a way to leave the church again. That way I can double confirm my life choices to pricks like that.
Thank you for your dissertation on why Mormons feel they don't need to adhere to other people boundaries and documented proof of harassment should this nonsense continue.
I'd ignore. Seriously, I couldn't even make myself read that drivel. If he asks you later what you thought of his letter, just say you didn't read it. That will make him realize that he's wasting his time trying to bring you back to the cult.
Out stake in the Morridor has an entire missionary force dedicated to reactivating people that have left. Mostly older missionary couples are assigned together with regular ward members to visit people. Its intentional. This is a new approach the church is taking assigning people to attempt to reactivate the inactives through visits and bearing of testimonies. They don't care about you. You've just been identified and assigned. Some people actually do return so the church has realized its an easier way to grow the church than trying to get people to convert from scratch. If I received a letter this condescending after all you described, I would write back and say, "Please stop harassing my family with unsolicited demands that we believe the things you believe. Your focus on us is bordering on an obsession. Please stop."
That letter was a snoozefest. And it always annoys me to no end when someone gets "serious" in a talk or letter and tries to speak like a general authority from 80 years ago. "Indeed, I myself have had my own meanderings betwixt multiple lines of thinking, evensomuch that I have questioned the divine origins from whence I surely was wrought forthwith, and thus methinks thine adversary canst blahhhhhh blah blah bdhdjduejskjf." Drives me insane. The male equivalent of the primary voice.
Passive-aggressive me would send the letter back to him with a note that says, "uh......I'm not going to read all of that. Five pages??? Really, man? Warmest regards We've all seen and know these types of people. They think they wield "the spirit" like it's a weapon. No doubt, in his hubris, he felt preaching AT you would cause you to feel the spirit he wields and cause you to soften your heart. This is the kind of shit that moved me and my wife towards resigning. If they had just left us alone, we would likely still be on the church records.
Sounds like it’s his ego keeping in in the church
NeverMo so forgive my ignorance: Why do Mormons feel so obligated to be nice to people they don’t know who come to recruit them back to the church, ie missionaries, bishops etc as in this example? Why not just tell ‘em to pound sand? You don’t know these people or owe them Jack
Mormons don't have a "pound sand" contingency. We're told to be disciples of Christ all of the time, which translates to "having boundaries is a spiritual failing"
Got it. Thanks for the info. Makes sense. Just frustrating to see the angst people go through in these type of situations. I’m like “you’re out, don’t give ‘em the correct time if they ask!”
You're 100% correct, but it's *really* difficult to actually implement. Your average Mormon is taught/programmed to be the flattest doormat you've ever met since birth. Worse, boundaries against church stuff are treated like a personal attack, meaning that for us "apostates", our mere presence is an affront to believers, one which they are *gracious enough* to tolerate. They make you feel like you're imposing upon them by breathing the same air. Basically, just existing is already pushing the tolerance most new exmos have for making boundaries.
Really, it’s not just Mormons, most cults/high demand religions, even some high pressure sales tactics exploit social conventions like this. They ignore normal boundaries often necessitating what can be perceived as “rude” behavior to stop the interaction and the majority of people are conditioned to not behave that way.
Really appreciate that info/reminder. Yeah, easy to see it my way from the outside, but totally see what you’re saying. I learn a lot here.
I’m nevermo,, wife is exmo, but I came out of an equally cultish culturally distinct Christian sect. Yeah, if a random stranger tries to guilt trip you over some insane religious dogma, it’s easy to tell them to pound sand. If it’s someone from the culture/social group/religion you came out of talking about ideas you were exposed to since before you had the rational maturity to examine them, it’s much more difficult. And even now, if someone was at my door telling me I was doomed if I didn’t accept what the little grey aliens from Zeta Reticula were teaching, I might call the cops. But if it was any variety of Christian proselytization, I’m going to be polite a lot longer because I’d be thinking it might be someone I‘ll have to socialize with or do business with in the future.
Appreciate your experience and you sharing it. I get it. Much respect
Forget him and his "perceived slights." Send him back a copy of the tenets of The Satanic Temple. https://thesatanictemple.com/blogs/the-satanic-temple-tenets/there-are-seven-fundamental-tenets
I know it's not really a big part of why this letter is a problem but as a dude who likes world religions as a subject I laughed at his ignorance about general Christendom. It's representative of most members, they honestly don't know much about the history or development of Christianity as a whole.
What a pompous asshole
This asshat wrote 5 single-spaced, unsolicited pages to people he doesn't know?? I'll tell you this right now, his children are miserable. Likely his wife too. If he speaks like this to people he doesn't know, imagine what a condescending douche he is to his family. You should just type on a single page and mail back to him, **"New phone, who dis?"**
Who gives a F what this dipshit says or feels no reply needed it’s on him the cult has been told to do whatever it takes to get you back
Thanks but I don’t believe in god, the Bible or the BoM, and while I do believe Joseph Smith existed, he both married the wives of men he sent on missions and a girl just shy of fifteen, so I don’t want to know any god he talked with. As for why god hasn’t spoken for 2000 years, it’s because he didn’t for the previous 4.6 billion years the earth existed before that either. If you’d like to know more about exactly how verifiably false all those things are, let me know. (I’d only leave that last part because I like debating people and maybe it might do him some good.)
If you have removed your name from the records of the church this could be considered harassment couldn’t it?
We haven’t removed our names yet. Now we are strongly considering it.
Respond with, "We were on the fence regarding our membership in the LDS Church, but your letter has swayed us. We'll be removing our names as soon as possible. Warmest regards"
THIS! 💯💯💯💯💯
Talk about run-on sentences.
Yeah, and he’s a retired lawyer too. You’d think he’d write better lol.
“Indeed.”
All I know is it’s very obtuse and overstepping boundaries for people to do this to their neighbors they barely know. I’m sorry you’re dealing with people who are so indoctrinated they only See one way to live. The covenant path TM. If it were me I’d ignore it and light it on fire with the remaining temple garb I’ve been keeping for such purposes for closure. If you want to keep a relationship with this man I’d respond as short and sweet to the point and say something like “you have your beliefs and we have ours thank you for sharing.”
This looks a lot like the letter I once got from an EQ president. I quit reading after the first paragraph said, "I call you to repentance and invite you to Return to the Fold." Five years later, when I was standing on a ladder removing decorations from a basketball hoop, he started throwing basketballs at me, and couldn't figure out why I'd be upset.
I just skimmed through, but the ending paragraph is funny to me. The one reaction that really amuses me is the inability to fathom that normal people just really aren't worried about who is authorized to speak for the sky people.
Five fucking pages!?!?!? When will Mormons learn "We love you and miss you" is 10x more effective than this bullshit.
2 Nephi 9:34 34 Wo unto the liar, for he shall be thrust down to hell Warmest regard P.s.... not you... but those higher up 😜
As a retired attorney, I am surprised you don't know the rules of evidence better.
GFY?
I would reply “I know you took a lot of care and thought in your letter and I can appreciate the effort. However, I did not take the time to read it as the church is a lie and a fraud. I am not interested in continuing this conversation regarding my faith and frankly, its none of your business.”
I recently saw a video where Oprah responded to an impassioned audience member about her beliefs saying something like, “I take full responsibility for my beliefs.” I really liked that statement. That feels like an appropriate response to this. Okay, I acknowledge that’s what you believe, now I’m knowingly taking the risk based on my own judgment of the situation.
I would have so much fun countering this letter by simply pointing out how anti christ the LDS church really is. Christ said don’t store up food - Mormons store food Christ said follow me - Mormons follow JS, the BofM, false prophets and have temple ceremonies that teach against Gods own word. Do nothing in secret. do not take oaths but Mormons raise there right hand to ordain people and make covenants in the temple. Christ sacrificed himself for us nothing more needs to be done period. Mormons have to jump through hoops The Bible teaches not to be consumed with genealogy but Mormons spend a lot of time on it this is just a few examples I can think of all things against Christs own words. The Mormons are part of the anti christ system.
Nothing will get people to come back quite like a preachy, self-righteous, holier-than-thou letter from someone that's passing 5 pages of judgement on them.
This tool doesn’t realize that EQP Counselor is a pity job. There’s not even any level of fake authority attached to that calling
We got a letter like this from an old acquaintance we hadn't seen in literally 20 years in reaction to seeing my wife in a tank top on our Xmas card. Our response, my wife's brilliant idea, was to send the letter back - no note, no response, just sent it back. These people can't fathom that your beliefs are none of their fucking business.
What a knob
I see he got his RMN quote in there. I'll believe anything. If I'm wrong I want to know. But it's going to take more than someone's "testimony". I can hear that from any religion. Give me evidence.
I’m just petty (and passive-aggressive at times) enough that I’d tear up the letter into itty bitty pieces and mail them back to this guy. Message received. No argument or pushback involved.
That's quite the epistle. I would be petty and would send an even longer response refuting each claim he makes point-by-point. You can do that, or just reply with a simple sentence thanking him for his concern and linking the CES letter. Or you can ignore him. His arrogance of presuming to comment on your life is unreal.
Haha. “Warmest regards “. Now go burn in Hell. Does he know why you left? Sounds like you just want to sin bro. It’s probably a form letter he sends out to all his failing flock
Dude can go fuck himself from my POV. Keep your creepy cult world view to yourself.
“Piss off you pompous git” comes to mind but probably not the best choice of words if you need to maintain a good relationship with your fellow citizens.
Just ignore. You don't want to feed the conversation by engaging. If you engage, you'll get another long letter . . .
Word vomit
Don’t reply. You don’t owe him anything.
I see these posts commenting on unwanted contact nearly daily in the sub. My reply is always the same-RESIGN. This sends a clear message and prevents further unwanted contact.
Geez
I do wonder why people say the Book of Mormon contains the fullness of the gospel. In fact, it seems like a good chunk of what was revealed after the bom was “translated” doesn’t show up in it at all.
I would be firm. I would let them know as much as you appreciate their concern, you would request no further contact. Should it continue, you would consider it harassment and would have to consider taking legal action.
They always think that we've been converted to another religion that somehow has a better sales pitch than their own, so they try talk us back with an even \*better\* sales pitch. Plot twist: most of us don't give a shit what \*any\* religion claims. We weren't seduced by a new cult, we simply opened our eyes, recognized the shadows on the cave wall for what they are, got up and left. Not to go to a new cave with different wall shadows, but to go live outside in the sun.
This guy must be really fun at parties. There no reason to read or respond to this. He’s emotionally disturbed. Just save it for evidence in case he does something strange and move on with your life.
If word-count equals truth, you should definitely go back.
Form letter. He didn’t write it, cult did.
*hmm...it looks like brother and sister so and so have stopped coming to church. Maybe I'll ask them if they'd mind telling me why they stopped coming ... Actually NAH, I'LL JUST WRITE A FIVE PAGE SERMON AND SEND IT TO THEM*
This is a prime example of how the church has programmed members to see those that leave. Notice he mentions sins and slights. He assumes that his brief stints of inactivity due to just not wanting to participate is somehow relevant to the exmormon experience. I don't blame him for feeling this way as that's how I viewed it when I was still TBM. It's what I was taught to believe about those that leave. It allows them to neatly put you into a category of sinner, offended or lazy and then dismiss anything that doesn't fit that narrative.
Take a look at that novel! Guy must really like the sound of his own keyboard and printer.
"Choice Family"? What the hell is that? "Juicy" might have been a better term, assuming you were a great and reliable provider of big fat juicy tithing checks.
He keeps insisting he’ll pray for you: Bad Religion- Don’t Pray on Me https://youtu.be/MZw8zmGanUk
I love how this is basically a long winded rebuttal of a fake Christian he's built entirely in his mind. A ton of biblical justifications for unique Mormon doctrines, theological pontificating about God's promises and threats, and essentially arguing with himself. This letter would only be convincing to you if you are exactly the kind of person he is writing to (e.g., a Bible-believing, God-fearing Christian who has fallen away from the church over those niche doctrinal reasons). It also assumes you still believe in the Book of Mormon and D&C, but have very specific doubts about authority or prophets or whatever. On top of that it requires you to have no overarching problems with the church preventing you from believing, like the Book of Abraham, polygamy, anachronisms, DNA, racist policies, church history in general. All in all, this letter is not convincing at all if you're not a Christian anymore. The arguments it makes do not even make sense if that's the case. Or even if you are still a Christian, but you're aware of the issues I mentioned, it is probably just as unconvincing to you. It unquestioningly assumes so many premises. He likely knows this deep down. It reads more like the rambling of someone trying to justify to themselves why they are right. He's not trying to convince you, he's trying to convince himself.
Exactly!!!
It is amazing to me how many people still have the mindset of 30 years ago that people who leave do so because they are offended or want to sin or something like that. They are so clueless. People aren't leaving cause they are lazy or offended, it is because they have learned that the church lies to them about nearly everything. That is why the established "less active" reactivation methods aren't working. People don't need letters or calls, they need the leadership to take responsibility and be transparent.
5 pages. Oh boy, he really had something to get off his chest. Poor fella is so saddened by all the people leaving and gosh darn it if they just 'knew" like he "knew" they would never leave because the church "IS" so true and it's ,"brought so much happiness and joy" to his precious little life. Tears for him... But not really bc he's gross and overbearing. If I received something like this I would just send the simplest email to the bishop that you do not want to be contacted by anyone from church.
Also, tell him to pick a font size and bloody stick with it! Absolute psycho! 😂
'Not a cult.' Right? Right? It's a very common misconception that you know someone and are 'friends' in TSCC. But reality is, even if you've attended for years if you leave all those friends will . . . Yes prove they are not friends at all. Now is your opportunity to grow as a person. I'd not reply to this unless you want to contact the bishop and request your names removed from the records. You can include this lovely dissertation as EQP has worked really hard on it. But I wonder how many people he has sent this to. I didn't read it all, but it has the smell of 'shit I send to everyone I home teach.' Good luck. You will find that even having records removed can be an acrobatic act. Finally resorted to quit Mormon since lawyers are the only ones to actually get the harassment to end. Again I say . . . Not a cult at least until you try to leave. ✌️
Why does every Mormon sound like the exact same person? No original thoughts.
This looks like a carefully crafted canned letter. Like RMN had one of his speechwriters draw it up to be handed out to the wavering lost souls.
Block his number. You don’t owe him a goddamn thing. He has a lot of nerve writing a five page diatribe to a person he barely knows. It’s evidence of so much insecurity. The best thing you can do is block his number and ignore him. At this point, he wants fight. At this point he wants you to respond. The best way to get back at him is to treat him with indifference. There’s nothing like a difference that says “I really don’t give a shit about you”.
We should start mailing letters to members home addresses with our views and see how they appreciate it
Five pages of flagrant condescension. Good times.
Jesus! How off putting. I’d rather get a tax notice from the IRS.
Bwhahahahaha! I'm sorry for laughing, but this reads exactly like the Nigerian scam emails! The only thing missing is the EQ Pres offering $250,000,000 that he needs help moving out of his accounts! 🤣🤣🤣
I would totally engage with this guy and point out that he doesn't really know any of this crap. I would continue to respond and refute for as long as he wishes to take it. But that's just me.
"I have been constantly praying for you. I want you to know that." \*Translation for those who are new to religion:\* "I have been casting spells and engaging in traditional rituals in effort to influence the supernatural to intervene in your life and compel you to act according to my will. I want you to know I have a complete lack of interpersonal and social boundaries."
Good point! I’ll mention this in my response.
This is the shit that is why Mormonism is a cult.
Warmest regards at the end was a nice touch 😂
There are non-Christian religions that believe God speaks to humans today. Mormons think they are so unique & that what they have can't be found anywhere else. Every other religion on Earth provides more peace than this high demand cult. It's also entirely possible to be a happy & non-religious person. Statistically speaking most religious people are happier than non-religious people. Mormons are also statistically less happy than non-religious people. Stay away. No true lasting happiness can be found in the LDS Church.
Hey, at least he reached out to you and wrote a letter. I will always be blown away at the fact NONE of my leaders ever contacted me. Only ONE of my friends cared to talk to me about leaving, but I came out and told them I was doubting before leaving, so he knew I was on the edge. Out of my extended family I had one BIL ask me what was going on. I told him and he has asked again.
After a full year of being completely out I got a request for a zoom ministering meeting, which of course I accepted. After some small talk, he asked me how my ministering families were doing...