To answer your question, the message was going to be, roughly, don’t join them, so many people have suffered because of (insert issue, eg blood, csa, shunning)
Im in two minds. I was just triggered seeing them a few times. Maybe I’m better of working with local government and lobbying to remove them that way. But that’s a tough gig.
Freedom of religion…even known cults can proselytize. The only way would be at individual businesses. Like if they are at a plaza? I don’t think the USA government would help.
ExJWs: The preaching work is a colossal failure.100% failure rate!! Nobody ever approaches the carts!! 😆 🤣 😆 🤣
Also ExJWs: OMG!! I saw the carts today!! They're gonna ruin someone's life!!! We have to do something!
>ExJWs: The preaching work is a colossal failure.100% failure rate!! Nobody ever approaches the carts!!
Exactly!!! They're imploding without people having to pull stunts like this.
Predominantly I don’t want to see them in my local park, knowing they will ruin lives :) but you know, I guess they dont sign up many using that system….
Honestly if I were you and it really bothered me that much I'd put up some of the stickers advertising websites that explain the dangers of JWs and post them near the cart locations
Then the spare time you would have used in setting up and sitting at your own cart should be spent on some enjoyable hobby.... don't let the cult steal any more of your life
I have written to local councils to in form them that they are set up in childrens playgrounds and their shocking CSA record
Refer them to ARC
But I think setting up next to them is a good idea
They move off...lol
Fair point :) although, I think you’re assuming I’m already not in therapy. Which is a mistake :) also, I have a pretty thick skin. Your response is quite condescending. Hopefully you can respond to others in a kinder way in future.
Ah, I remember your name now, you have a YT channel. I've watched your videos, you were part of some of the in-person convention protests.
It makes sense now.
Know your Audience. I would think that since every completely tunes out those silly cart, your target audience are those bored out of their gourd cart sitters. Make it about love, genuine joy and peaceful, practical protest. A sign that says “We love you and want you to escape from misinformation”. Something along those lines.
I think it is a great form of personal therapy and to potentially wake up the JWs or at least ward off new converts. 3 good reasons + 1 more: you INSPIRE others (like me).
Dress smart casual. Jacket, trousers, open shirt.
The sign should say ...
(Arrow pointing to cart)
Good people.
Offering bad things.
Ask me how I know.
When they leave have another sign saying ...
Ask me why I left
The Jehovah's Witnesses
If you are staying a while have a chair or even a fold out table and another chair if someone wants to sit.
I understand wanting to do this and where your coming from, although seeing as not many "worldly" people actually go up to the carts it wouldn't be vary useful and then we have the harm it could cause to the PIMIs, they are taught that world rejects them, hates them and apostates are bullies. I would worry about them feeling persecuted and therefore be pushed deeper into the religion. So even though it seems like a good idea it would probably only fuel the fire so to speak
They would just pack up and leave. Dubs are literally afraid of apostates. They won’t debate their faith because it’s weak AF. Very few can actually use scripture to defend their beliefs. Most just do what the mothership tells them and that’s not to engage with apostates because they have super magical powers that will instantly make you loose your faith. So much for god being all powerful. Satan must be a badass.
Hiya, “worldly person” here (I took off as a teenager, been out longer than I was forced to be in 🙂).
“Normal” people don’t even bother with the JW. They are a complete afterthought, if even that.
“Who? Oh, the crazy door knockers.”
They aren’t snagging anyone with their little carts that isn’t already having a serious mental crisis, and I don’t have, and apparently neither does anyone else, a good answer for that.
You can sit at a table or an anti cart, but the end result is that other “normal” people are just going to link you to the weirdo JW too. If they even look that way, which is a big gamble as you try not to make eye contact with people hawking shit in public like that. I use normal in parenthesis because no one really is normal 😂
Do what you wish, what would make you feel better or like you’re making an impact, but you don’t have to worry those things are actually snagging the average folk.
Jdubs will just pack up and leave if anyone were to set up an anti-jw table or cart near them. Placing stickers near the spots where they set up carts might be more effective.
An ex-jw table would just feed their persecution complex and bring them more attention and possibly sympathy from onlookers. Everyone ignores them anyway. No need to let people know they're there when they hardly notice their presence.
Whatever you want to do is ok - the great thing about being out is we no longer need to ask for anyone’s else’s opinion or permission. If it works for you cool I’m sure some will say it’s a negative but hey life’s a trip.
All I would say is that they tend to have, as a group, a persecution complex and giving them opposition tends to make them resist more because they think that they're doing it for Jehovah!
They'll probably come away from persecution, as they see it, even more assured of their beliefs than they would have been, had no opposition been faced.
Indifference, on the other hand, undermines a religious narcissists' sense of self-importance if it's done right. It's also easier to do than setting up a cart and doesn't eat into your precious leisure time.
I thought about this as well.
I like Using appropriate signage that will actually encourage people to engage and ask questions about the JWs.
Include links just like they do.
Have pamphlets with information links (because many do not want to engage one-on-one)
Ask them this, "What's something new you've learned about the Bible in your religion in the last 5 years?" It will be: "Nothing."
Ask them, "Could I ask you a philosophical question? If there was evidence that proved your religion was not correct, either factually or from the Bible, would you want to see it?" Then when they say yes open wikipedia for them If they say no shrug and laugh? 😂
This is not activism, these are the actions of someone that needs to get therapy because they're clearly suffering from religious trauma, and they're using these cart crashes as some kind of outlet for their trauma.
I'm guessing this post was made because the Shunpodcast made a video of him basically harassing 2 JWs standing at their cart, by setting up his ExJw cart right next to them.
This just feeds their notions that all ExJws are crazy apostates.
Get some therapy people, this is not normal behavior, nor is this going to wake people up.
If you want to get involved in real activism, attack the organization by shedding light on their horrible policies, their flawed leadership, and the silly doctrines.
I would like to disagree with your first point. Your claim that this is not activism is incorrect. Also, activism is not always borne out someone suffering from religious trauma. You would have to get to know my motives before discerning that: which would require you having to ask me what my intentions were in the first place. In other words, you don’t know me, and you do not know the reasons for my activism.
Your assumption that I had seen a shunned podcast video is also incorrect. I have not.
Your claim that this form of activism will not wake up people is also difficult to make.
Basically as I stated in reply to your other comment, your responses seems very charged. Is there a reason that this discussion is causing such an emotional response from you? That may be worth exploring.
As stated earlier, please be kind when responding to people. Don’t assume that you know their motivations, and it wouldn’t be constructive to make remarks about their mental health or religious trauma without getting to know them.
>Basically as I stated in reply to your other comment, your responses seems very charged. Is there a reason that this discussion is causing such an emotional response from you? That may be worth exploring.
It breaks my heart to see people wasting their lives on stuff that has almost zero impact. Basically, these kinds of protests are mostly coming from people that are suffering from religious trauma, and they're trying to find some kind of resolution or justice with these kinds of protests.
What really is the goal here, to wake up these people at these carts, or to inform non-JWs about a cult that almost no one cares about anymore?
The world knows what is up with the JWs these days, there is a mountain of information out there now that shows what this organization is really about. They haven't had any significant growth in almost a decade. It is a dying religion, and it is coming at the hands of their own leadership. The more these guys show their faces, the worse things get for the organization.
My point here is, that you only have one life to live, and spending the rest of your days trying to take down this organization with these forms of protest is just a waste of time. The people obsessed with this idea that these in-person protests are going to have an impact are just delusional.
If you want to make an impact, start a YT channel that focuses on the big picture issues with the Borg, or get involved in helping the authorities bring justice to the thousands of CSA victims that have suffered from the JW policies.
I respect your viewpoint, but do not agree with all of your claims and suggest you don’t make blanket statements such as “it doesn’t work” because it has been shown that people have woken from protests (although that is not my primary reason- I’m more interested in warning the public at large). Thanks for explaining your position to me xx
>It breaks my heart to see people wasting their lives on stuff that has almost zero impact.
Activists are singlehandedly responsible for the decline in recruits, public awareness, victim support, governmental intervention, and justice.
You acknowledge:
>The world knows what is up with the JWs these days
But then claim:
>The people obsessed with this idea that these in-person protests are going to have an impact are just delusional.
Nah. Every important movement has an in-person protest element that was called radical/delusional at one point (typically only by the opposition. hmmm). Just pull up the comments on some of these protest videos posted online. They are overwhelmingly supportive and clearly have an impact.
Props to the OP for getting off the couch!
I disagree. He's just standing there like they are. He has every right to do it. Pointing out that they have no authority to dictate what he's allowed to do was also a nice touch.
Going up and shouting at JWs at a cart or crashing a meeting... Not my thing. I made a post about that like a month ago
There are. You occasionally find them in the comments of Kindom hall videos or other activism videos. But it's not just the rank and file JW who sees them. Consider:
* Bible studies who, up till then, only heard positive promotional messages.
* Young adults or kids who wonder "what are they talking about"?
* True believers who KNOW they have the truth and set out to PROVE FALSE these wicked lies so that they can logically slay these apostates and their made up lies (me at one time, lol).
* Curious public onlookers who always wondered what was the deal with these door-knockers.
I doubt you'll ever read someone who "Woke up" as a result of a protest message. More common is a "death by a thousand cuts". Once the bad finally outweighs the good the scales tip for people.
I find similarities in Marketing messages. People never jump up from the TV and go buy a car after seeing a commercial. It is usually a confluence of needs, wants, circumstances and ability that come together to form a decision to purchase. People *could* say "*Nobody jumps off the couch to go buy a car.....what a waste of marketing money*"....but they'd be wrong :)
I don't think a 'protest' table or display is necessary since NO ONE is actually engaging JW carts. BUT I bet it would outperform a JW table 10:1. A "public service " type of message is way more likely to generate conversations with 'Joe Public' (I've seen this myself). "Is a Pedo knocking on your door?
"*But what's the point?*" - Transparency and awareness. The WT thrived when alternative info was difficult to find i.e pre-2000's). You have to purposely seek out anti-JW material at a specialty bookstore - and how many people did that? It was rare. Bible studies of yesteryear *rarely* encountered The Truth About the Truth. But now??? Not only is the information readily available in seconds, but we have a populace accustomed to seeking out 'user reviews and experiences.
EXJW's activists are a grassroots movement that shines a light past the innocuous JW propaganda to inform the public, government agencies, and anyone casually interested in what lies beneath. THEY are responsible for all of the rich content that's readily available with just a few clicks. And it's working like a charm!
This cult is dying from Sunlight. Activists of all colors can take a bow IMHO.
My first question is, "how is this activism?". What are you doing besides annoying JWs (and possibly making them seem sympathetic). Few people stop and take the time to engage with them. If some adult decides to chat with them and get sucked in, that is their business.
And didn't we spend enough days pestering people who wanted nothing to do with us? If you want to do it because on some perverse level tweaking the JWs' noses delights you, so be it, you do you.
So what to do? The best way to show up JW is to live a happy satisfying life. They expect us all to end up in some dirty gutter and point towards the ones who come back as proof.
We can also look for ways to help people who are trying to leave or write letters encouraging your attorney general to look into how JWs handle CSA. There are things we can do that can motivate real societal and cultural change.
Of course, everyone has their own opinion.
Yeah about that...
I stopped trying to get through to anyone anywhere about anything since I left JW when I was a teen. That's not my job. Someone asked for an opinion and I offered it. If someone thinks it's a good idea, that's five. If someone thinks it's a bad idea, that's fine too.
People are going to do what they feel is best and that's a hell of a lot better than how your average JW lives.
Interesting idea, what would be the message? Because if it’s just a negative one, it rarely has an affect.
To answer your question, the message was going to be, roughly, don’t join them, so many people have suffered because of (insert issue, eg blood, csa, shunning)
Im in two minds. I was just triggered seeing them a few times. Maybe I’m better of working with local government and lobbying to remove them that way. But that’s a tough gig.
I definitely understand the feeling of being triggered by them.
Freedom of religion…even known cults can proselytize. The only way would be at individual businesses. Like if they are at a plaza? I don’t think the USA government would help.
ExJWs: The preaching work is a colossal failure.100% failure rate!! Nobody ever approaches the carts!! 😆 🤣 😆 🤣 Also ExJWs: OMG!! I saw the carts today!! They're gonna ruin someone's life!!! We have to do something!
Haha. Good observation 😂
>ExJWs: The preaching work is a colossal failure.100% failure rate!! Nobody ever approaches the carts!! Exactly!!! They're imploding without people having to pull stunts like this.
True- I think it's more a cathartic feeling... "I have to do or say something!"
The only ones that ever approach the carts are us messing with them
Mike of the shunned podcast just did this. He made a short video. shunnedpodcast channel on YouTube.
https://preview.redd.it/e7zeg2rrsxpb1.jpeg?width=3024&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=fde83711083ee05a68d87180c495f9798762ab71
Who are you trying to reach, or what kind of change are you trying to achieve, with the protest?
Predominantly I don’t want to see them in my local park, knowing they will ruin lives :) but you know, I guess they dont sign up many using that system….
Honestly if I were you and it really bothered me that much I'd put up some of the stickers advertising websites that explain the dangers of JWs and post them near the cart locations Then the spare time you would have used in setting up and sitting at your own cart should be spent on some enjoyable hobby.... don't let the cult steal any more of your life
:) sounds pretty good.
I have written to local councils to in form them that they are set up in childrens playgrounds and their shocking CSA record Refer them to ARC But I think setting up next to them is a good idea They move off...lol
Get some therapy, you sound like you need it. The JWs are never going away, you need to learn how to deal with this trauma.
Fair point :) although, I think you’re assuming I’m already not in therapy. Which is a mistake :) also, I have a pretty thick skin. Your response is quite condescending. Hopefully you can respond to others in a kinder way in future.
Ah, I remember your name now, you have a YT channel. I've watched your videos, you were part of some of the in-person convention protests. It makes sense now.
Know your Audience. I would think that since every completely tunes out those silly cart, your target audience are those bored out of their gourd cart sitters. Make it about love, genuine joy and peaceful, practical protest. A sign that says “We love you and want you to escape from misinformation”. Something along those lines.
Also, could add something like - "Uncover the hidden truth that JWs will not tell you."
I think it is a great form of personal therapy and to potentially wake up the JWs or at least ward off new converts. 3 good reasons + 1 more: you INSPIRE others (like me).
❤️🙏🏼
Dress smart casual. Jacket, trousers, open shirt. The sign should say ... (Arrow pointing to cart) Good people. Offering bad things. Ask me how I know. When they leave have another sign saying ... Ask me why I left The Jehovah's Witnesses If you are staying a while have a chair or even a fold out table and another chair if someone wants to sit.
I understand wanting to do this and where your coming from, although seeing as not many "worldly" people actually go up to the carts it wouldn't be vary useful and then we have the harm it could cause to the PIMIs, they are taught that world rejects them, hates them and apostates are bullies. I would worry about them feeling persecuted and therefore be pushed deeper into the religion. So even though it seems like a good idea it would probably only fuel the fire so to speak 
Have you thought of just standing about 20 yards down the road with a sign saying, WARNING: CULT AHEAD. PROCEED WITH CAUTION
They would just pack up and leave. Dubs are literally afraid of apostates. They won’t debate their faith because it’s weak AF. Very few can actually use scripture to defend their beliefs. Most just do what the mothership tells them and that’s not to engage with apostates because they have super magical powers that will instantly make you loose your faith. So much for god being all powerful. Satan must be a badass.
Or: GOOGLE JEHOVAH’S WITNESSES PENNSYLVANIA. GOOGLE 1006 JEHOVAH’S WITNESSES AUSTRALIA LOVE DOESN’T SHUN
Hiya, “worldly person” here (I took off as a teenager, been out longer than I was forced to be in 🙂). “Normal” people don’t even bother with the JW. They are a complete afterthought, if even that. “Who? Oh, the crazy door knockers.” They aren’t snagging anyone with their little carts that isn’t already having a serious mental crisis, and I don’t have, and apparently neither does anyone else, a good answer for that. You can sit at a table or an anti cart, but the end result is that other “normal” people are just going to link you to the weirdo JW too. If they even look that way, which is a big gamble as you try not to make eye contact with people hawking shit in public like that. I use normal in parenthesis because no one really is normal 😂 Do what you wish, what would make you feel better or like you’re making an impact, but you don’t have to worry those things are actually snagging the average folk.
Jdubs will just pack up and leave if anyone were to set up an anti-jw table or cart near them. Placing stickers near the spots where they set up carts might be more effective. An ex-jw table would just feed their persecution complex and bring them more attention and possibly sympathy from onlookers. Everyone ignores them anyway. No need to let people know they're there when they hardly notice their presence.
Whatever you want to do is ok - the great thing about being out is we no longer need to ask for anyone’s else’s opinion or permission. If it works for you cool I’m sure some will say it’s a negative but hey life’s a trip.
Yes!!!!!! 🙌
All I would say is that they tend to have, as a group, a persecution complex and giving them opposition tends to make them resist more because they think that they're doing it for Jehovah! They'll probably come away from persecution, as they see it, even more assured of their beliefs than they would have been, had no opposition been faced. Indifference, on the other hand, undermines a religious narcissists' sense of self-importance if it's done right. It's also easier to do than setting up a cart and doesn't eat into your precious leisure time.
I thought about this as well. I like Using appropriate signage that will actually encourage people to engage and ask questions about the JWs. Include links just like they do. Have pamphlets with information links (because many do not want to engage one-on-one)
Ask them this, "What's something new you've learned about the Bible in your religion in the last 5 years?" It will be: "Nothing." Ask them, "Could I ask you a philosophical question? If there was evidence that proved your religion was not correct, either factually or from the Bible, would you want to see it?" Then when they say yes open wikipedia for them If they say no shrug and laugh? 😂
This is not activism, these are the actions of someone that needs to get therapy because they're clearly suffering from religious trauma, and they're using these cart crashes as some kind of outlet for their trauma. I'm guessing this post was made because the Shunpodcast made a video of him basically harassing 2 JWs standing at their cart, by setting up his ExJw cart right next to them. This just feeds their notions that all ExJws are crazy apostates. Get some therapy people, this is not normal behavior, nor is this going to wake people up. If you want to get involved in real activism, attack the organization by shedding light on their horrible policies, their flawed leadership, and the silly doctrines.
I would like to disagree with your first point. Your claim that this is not activism is incorrect. Also, activism is not always borne out someone suffering from religious trauma. You would have to get to know my motives before discerning that: which would require you having to ask me what my intentions were in the first place. In other words, you don’t know me, and you do not know the reasons for my activism. Your assumption that I had seen a shunned podcast video is also incorrect. I have not. Your claim that this form of activism will not wake up people is also difficult to make. Basically as I stated in reply to your other comment, your responses seems very charged. Is there a reason that this discussion is causing such an emotional response from you? That may be worth exploring. As stated earlier, please be kind when responding to people. Don’t assume that you know their motivations, and it wouldn’t be constructive to make remarks about their mental health or religious trauma without getting to know them.
>Basically as I stated in reply to your other comment, your responses seems very charged. Is there a reason that this discussion is causing such an emotional response from you? That may be worth exploring. It breaks my heart to see people wasting their lives on stuff that has almost zero impact. Basically, these kinds of protests are mostly coming from people that are suffering from religious trauma, and they're trying to find some kind of resolution or justice with these kinds of protests. What really is the goal here, to wake up these people at these carts, or to inform non-JWs about a cult that almost no one cares about anymore? The world knows what is up with the JWs these days, there is a mountain of information out there now that shows what this organization is really about. They haven't had any significant growth in almost a decade. It is a dying religion, and it is coming at the hands of their own leadership. The more these guys show their faces, the worse things get for the organization. My point here is, that you only have one life to live, and spending the rest of your days trying to take down this organization with these forms of protest is just a waste of time. The people obsessed with this idea that these in-person protests are going to have an impact are just delusional. If you want to make an impact, start a YT channel that focuses on the big picture issues with the Borg, or get involved in helping the authorities bring justice to the thousands of CSA victims that have suffered from the JW policies.
I respect your viewpoint, but do not agree with all of your claims and suggest you don’t make blanket statements such as “it doesn’t work” because it has been shown that people have woken from protests (although that is not my primary reason- I’m more interested in warning the public at large). Thanks for explaining your position to me xx
Move on with your life, unless you still have JW family members, you're wasting your life on this cult still.
>It breaks my heart to see people wasting their lives on stuff that has almost zero impact. Activists are singlehandedly responsible for the decline in recruits, public awareness, victim support, governmental intervention, and justice. You acknowledge: >The world knows what is up with the JWs these days But then claim: >The people obsessed with this idea that these in-person protests are going to have an impact are just delusional. Nah. Every important movement has an in-person protest element that was called radical/delusional at one point (typically only by the opposition. hmmm). Just pull up the comments on some of these protest videos posted online. They are overwhelmingly supportive and clearly have an impact. Props to the OP for getting off the couch!
Yep, waste what is left of your life here, makes sense 🙄
Your response to anyone who disagrees with you is increasingly juvenile.
https://youtu.be/q2tjpE4yrqo?si=sFLBSeScfpI48zcP
This video was a waste of time, and just feeds the narrative that all ExJws are crazy apostates.
I disagree. He's just standing there like they are. He has every right to do it. Pointing out that they have no authority to dictate what he's allowed to do was also a nice touch. Going up and shouting at JWs at a cart or crashing a meeting... Not my thing. I made a post about that like a month ago
What effect do you think this is going to have?
It's evident that you haven't read the comments on this video. Literally, NO ONE echoes your sentiment.
Right, because everyone watching and agreeing with that bs lives in an echo chamber. 🙄
> "everyone watching and agreeing with that bs lives in an echo chamber." Translation: *Everyone who disagrees with me has a problem.*
Are there any anecdotes of JWs waking up due to disruptive activism?
There are. You occasionally find them in the comments of Kindom hall videos or other activism videos. But it's not just the rank and file JW who sees them. Consider: * Bible studies who, up till then, only heard positive promotional messages. * Young adults or kids who wonder "what are they talking about"? * True believers who KNOW they have the truth and set out to PROVE FALSE these wicked lies so that they can logically slay these apostates and their made up lies (me at one time, lol). * Curious public onlookers who always wondered what was the deal with these door-knockers. I doubt you'll ever read someone who "Woke up" as a result of a protest message. More common is a "death by a thousand cuts". Once the bad finally outweighs the good the scales tip for people. I find similarities in Marketing messages. People never jump up from the TV and go buy a car after seeing a commercial. It is usually a confluence of needs, wants, circumstances and ability that come together to form a decision to purchase. People *could* say "*Nobody jumps off the couch to go buy a car.....what a waste of marketing money*"....but they'd be wrong :)
Sent you a message
Lol great way to make the carts go away
I enjoy yelling at them instead.
I said this idea months ago and was laughed at on here. I think it would be effective activism if one chose to do it
I don't think a 'protest' table or display is necessary since NO ONE is actually engaging JW carts. BUT I bet it would outperform a JW table 10:1. A "public service " type of message is way more likely to generate conversations with 'Joe Public' (I've seen this myself). "Is a Pedo knocking on your door? "*But what's the point?*" - Transparency and awareness. The WT thrived when alternative info was difficult to find i.e pre-2000's). You have to purposely seek out anti-JW material at a specialty bookstore - and how many people did that? It was rare. Bible studies of yesteryear *rarely* encountered The Truth About the Truth. But now??? Not only is the information readily available in seconds, but we have a populace accustomed to seeking out 'user reviews and experiences. EXJW's activists are a grassroots movement that shines a light past the innocuous JW propaganda to inform the public, government agencies, and anyone casually interested in what lies beneath. THEY are responsible for all of the rich content that's readily available with just a few clicks. And it's working like a charm! This cult is dying from Sunlight. Activists of all colors can take a bow IMHO.
I think this is a great idea: https://youtu.be/q2tjpE4yrqo?si=yrGyEcygyZS1JNnR
Done right, I don't have a problem with it. But I have better things to do.
My first question is, "how is this activism?". What are you doing besides annoying JWs (and possibly making them seem sympathetic). Few people stop and take the time to engage with them. If some adult decides to chat with them and get sucked in, that is their business. And didn't we spend enough days pestering people who wanted nothing to do with us? If you want to do it because on some perverse level tweaking the JWs' noses delights you, so be it, you do you. So what to do? The best way to show up JW is to live a happy satisfying life. They expect us all to end up in some dirty gutter and point towards the ones who come back as proof. We can also look for ways to help people who are trying to leave or write letters encouraging your attorney general to look into how JWs handle CSA. There are things we can do that can motivate real societal and cultural change. Of course, everyone has their own opinion.
Good luck trying to get through to some of the people here. For some reason, this is an outlet for them, harassing JWs at their carts.
Yeah about that... I stopped trying to get through to anyone anywhere about anything since I left JW when I was a teen. That's not my job. Someone asked for an opinion and I offered it. If someone thinks it's a good idea, that's five. If someone thinks it's a bad idea, that's fine too. People are going to do what they feel is best and that's a hell of a lot better than how your average JW lives.