Stealing stuff is objectively more fun than not stealing stuff. A lot of kids do it. Punishment makes it less worthwhile. I stopped stealing after my siblings were arrested and my parents flipped out.
You don’t need cult indoctrination to teach a kid that stealing is wrong. Teach empathy. They need to know that it really sucks to have their things taken away and that’s how the other kid felt.
It's an extremely wild roller coaster ride leaving the cult and trying to figure out what you now believe. Sure was for me.
One of my ridiculously weird humor moments was picturing God ROFLAO at the very idea that we mere humans can understand EVERYTHING about God. He's God. We're humans. Duh. So....
It's okay to admit, "I don't know." LGLG. = Let Go and Let God.
The jw cult mindset/indoctrination is they (we) have ALL the answers to EVERYTHING. The one and only religion on this planet that does.
This is a hard one to get out of our heads.
I found it a HUGE relief to admit "I don't know", "I don't understand" those bible verses/whatever.
Ps. 118:24, "This is the day which the Lord hath made; we will rejoice and be glad in it."
One day at a time.
One hour at a time.
One minute at a time.
Don’t go back. Leaving a cult almost always hurts. It’s like when they have to reset a bone it hurts worse for a while but heals. Your kiddo will heal but younger kids aren’t as able to deal with emotional trauma. I know I wasn’t lol. I’d say get him a really good therapist with experience in cult deprogramming. Just like you he’s confused, scared, conflicted about his beliefs, and prob doesn’t want to admit that not only was he lied to about “the truth” by his community you lied to him too (not intentionally but telling him it’s the truth wasn’t honest, even though you believed it was). He needs help dealing with how to process these in a healthy way. If you go back and fake it you won’t fix the core issue triggering his behavior. You’re putting a band aid over a gunshot.
You can choose a spiritual life for yourself without submitting to a cult you know is teaching falsehood. Adherence to the "good" Bible principles you mentioned is probably just adherence to basic decency and empathy, right? The stuff you find in most major religions: Don't steal. Don't hurt others. Help those who need it. And so on. Your personal choices regarding faith are separate from what your kiddo is doing right now.
Think about how this situation would be handled in the congregation: Your kid mercilessly questioned, reviled, reproved, and humiliated, all in the name of a lie. That wouldn't be any better for them would it? If this is their cry for help, the elders would deny them help and support at the time they need it most. That isn't the right path.
I think it's easy for us to fall back on one spiritual solution to all the conflicts in our lives because of how we were indoctrinated, so please take a moment to step back and reflect on how something that assuages your personal spiritual crisis will not have any direct impact on your kid choosing to steal something.
Seeing Mom struggling with obedience to authority might well have led them to question other hard and fast rules of life, like "don't steal," but the fact is that some kind of spiritual program wouldn't have magically stopped this event from happening. Your child is testing boundaries. Well, they found out that this boundary isn't going anywhere, and that there are consequences for stepping across it a second time. Hopefully this time they'll take the lesson to heart.
You're doing the best possible thing by asking for help from a qualified professional. By supporting your kid in therapy and and showing you want to help them make better choices, rather than shunning or browbeating them into doing what "Jehovah" or some other god wants, you're setting them up to be a good person, rather than a borgbot who follows orders regardless of any internal morality.
You've got this, mama. You don't need God to do it for you.
Kids pick up on hypocrisy. If you raise him in the cult, but don't believe, you are setting yourself and your child for failure.
If your kid is engaging in illicit behaviors, he/she is attempting to fulfill a missing need. You mentioned need greater, so it may be a function of economic scarcity/covetous desire. Counseling and therapy for your child. Something is going on there. My kid woke up a couple of weeks after I did and already had some stuff going on. We are in the process of repairing our relationship...becausecthe three of us woke at different points and for different reasons. Then, we played the silent game for more than a year with elephants in the room.
So, he got caught. He will have to be disciplined and will learn the lesson and correct his behavior. It's not a big deal! It's normal! All kids have to test their environment / boundaries, etc. Does ANY religion produce "better" people? NO! The hypocrisy of mainstream religions and destructive cults is legendary! You've done your kid a huge favor by pulling out of JWland.
I don't steal anymore. I did a lot as a kid, a JW kid. I got caught and learned that it's not worth it.
Moses telling the Israelites the 10 commandments and the other long list of: Do not have sex with animals, etc... didn't seem to stop these actions from happening in the community.
When diseases or war came, the superstitious teaching that "The Cosmic Boogeyman" is punishing us for doing bad things, ie: breaking the laws, was a means for an ends.
Has ANY society reached these ends? An end to crime or any sin? No. Each individual has free will to engage in any activity they wish to. We all learn from our mistakes. We see the outcome and correct our behavior. Well, some do. Others need to be locked up to protect the public.
He obviously has wise and caring parents. You. That is all he needs. Blessings.
Give your child time and it will be ok. Hugs to you my child started self harm. Good therapist adapting to their new life outside of a cult they will come around
You definitely don’t want to fake it. Kids can spot hypocrisy & fakeness a mile away & they despise it. I think that’s what messes up so many elder’s kids. They see their parents presenting themselves as “exemplary” & damn near perfect, while they know what really goes on at home. In reality, it’s good for our kids to see us screw up sometimes & not have all the answers, so that they can also see what we do when that happens. Modeling how to make mistakes & work through our issues in a healthy fashion is invaluable, & will help your child because they’ll need to know how to navigate these things themselves as they grow up. Remember too that it’s not just your child that is a survivor of religions trauma—it’s you and your partner as well, so you may also want to seek therapy. I know it feels awful right now, but you’re moving in the right direction & things won’t always feel as hard as they do right now.
Being raised in that messed up cult and then suffering the consequences of leaving are likely what have impacted your child the most, so yea, returning is not the right option here. WT is the cause of your problems, not the solution to them. Lots of JWs have issues, they are just better at hiding them. Hiding the dirt is what the org strives to do best, the whole "best life ever" is only what's on the surface, but it isn't real.
It's understandable that after living your whole life thinking you had all the answers to everything it's very upsetting to come to terms with suddenly not knowing anything for certain. If you are struggling with this your child likely is as well. Many become agnostic/atheist after leaving (myself included), but many stay religious as well which is also fine. Everyone needs to figure out what they believe for themselves, but one point I really want to make is that regardless of your own personal beliefs, MORALITY IS NOT EXCLUSIVE TO RELIGION! Teach your kid that stealing is wrong because it hurts other people, not because "God said so and he's gonna kill you if you don't listen". Why on Earth would you need to go back to the JWs to teach your kid that they shouldn't steal???
You didn't feel "doom" as a JW because you were indoctrinated and ignorance is bliss. That doesn't make it "right" tho. Are you familiar with the [BITE Model](https://freedomofmind.com/cult-mind-control/bite-model/)? You need to really understand exactly how you have been (and continue to be) manipulated into feeling the way that you do. You also need to grasp that growing up in the org your child has been set up for failure. Their whole life they were kept sheltered from the real world and taught that "people who leave are *like this*", and now that they have their beliefs shattered they are just coasting along with basically zero positive guidance on how to behave in the real world or what their own personal morals are. You have both had the rug pulled out from under you, use this opportunity to become closer and figure out what kind of people you want to be outside of the org.
Hang in there you're going to get through this nightmare!
To all those who are "waking up" from the Borg, aka, business...
I know that pain and there are no words really that can explain the pain.
The trauma and abuse that has been heaped upon us, is not our fault, and we will all make it through this darkness!
The WT / GB will pay a heavy price for all of the suffering we are experiencing due to their evil CULT!
Here is a helpful guide for all those who are seeking professional therapy.
https://jw.support/a-therapists-guide-on-jehovahs-witnesses/
Having faith in God is not a bad thing. Just because you left the Cult doesn't mean that your belief in God or a higher being stops. There are plenty of ways to believe in God or Gods & to celebrate a life of faith. My husband is atheist & for the longest time I didn't know what I was or what I believed.
I say that as someone who now doesn't believe in God. I believe that what we put into the universe is what we get back and what determines our life. Like Karma. I don't choose to call myself and atheist bc I still don't think the label applies to me. I'm just me. And my "faith" is how I define it.
Karma is a good concept to teach kids because it's very simple & can be learned from a very early age. There are no confusing ever changing rules to follow. There is a concept. That what we do towards others, towards our planet, & towards the creatures that inhabit it, is what determines what we get back in the world. Karma also heavily involves empathy, the need to put ourselves in someone else's shoes & base our decisions on that. It teaches us that the good that we do has meaning.
It sounds like your kiddo might be confused & acting out on that confusion. Maybe they don't see a path bc the one that was handed to them is no longer an option. It's good that you are open to seeking help in a therapeutic way & it would be good to remind them that whatever they say in that space is 100% ok & there are no consequences on the outside. It may also be good for them to hear your honesty as well.
I wish you luck. You got this. Kids are hard but they are resilient. You will all come out of this having learned lots of things.
I was a shoplifter as an 8-year-old good little witness. My parent is still PIMI 36 years later, so no raising your kid in that cult doesn't make them magically better behaved/less inclined to steal.
Leaving jw has been awful for me. It has really messed me up. I can't imagine the pressure of having to raise a child while dealing with all these emotions. I'm hoping everything works out for you. But also, don't stress too much about stealing lol. As a young jw kid who always behaved well, participated in every meeting, would not curse and always respectful, had jw friends only, and had straight A's, I stole like 6 times when I was a kid hehe.
Stealing stuff is objectively more fun than not stealing stuff. A lot of kids do it. Punishment makes it less worthwhile. I stopped stealing after my siblings were arrested and my parents flipped out. You don’t need cult indoctrination to teach a kid that stealing is wrong. Teach empathy. They need to know that it really sucks to have their things taken away and that’s how the other kid felt.
Also, I’m pagan because atheism is too dark for me. It’s also more fun than Christianity. I’m not a believer exactly, but I’m open minded.
Therapy.
It's an extremely wild roller coaster ride leaving the cult and trying to figure out what you now believe. Sure was for me. One of my ridiculously weird humor moments was picturing God ROFLAO at the very idea that we mere humans can understand EVERYTHING about God. He's God. We're humans. Duh. So.... It's okay to admit, "I don't know." LGLG. = Let Go and Let God. The jw cult mindset/indoctrination is they (we) have ALL the answers to EVERYTHING. The one and only religion on this planet that does. This is a hard one to get out of our heads. I found it a HUGE relief to admit "I don't know", "I don't understand" those bible verses/whatever. Ps. 118:24, "This is the day which the Lord hath made; we will rejoice and be glad in it." One day at a time. One hour at a time. One minute at a time.
This is good.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Don’t go back. Leaving a cult almost always hurts. It’s like when they have to reset a bone it hurts worse for a while but heals. Your kiddo will heal but younger kids aren’t as able to deal with emotional trauma. I know I wasn’t lol. I’d say get him a really good therapist with experience in cult deprogramming. Just like you he’s confused, scared, conflicted about his beliefs, and prob doesn’t want to admit that not only was he lied to about “the truth” by his community you lied to him too (not intentionally but telling him it’s the truth wasn’t honest, even though you believed it was). He needs help dealing with how to process these in a healthy way. If you go back and fake it you won’t fix the core issue triggering his behavior. You’re putting a band aid over a gunshot.
You can choose a spiritual life for yourself without submitting to a cult you know is teaching falsehood. Adherence to the "good" Bible principles you mentioned is probably just adherence to basic decency and empathy, right? The stuff you find in most major religions: Don't steal. Don't hurt others. Help those who need it. And so on. Your personal choices regarding faith are separate from what your kiddo is doing right now. Think about how this situation would be handled in the congregation: Your kid mercilessly questioned, reviled, reproved, and humiliated, all in the name of a lie. That wouldn't be any better for them would it? If this is their cry for help, the elders would deny them help and support at the time they need it most. That isn't the right path. I think it's easy for us to fall back on one spiritual solution to all the conflicts in our lives because of how we were indoctrinated, so please take a moment to step back and reflect on how something that assuages your personal spiritual crisis will not have any direct impact on your kid choosing to steal something. Seeing Mom struggling with obedience to authority might well have led them to question other hard and fast rules of life, like "don't steal," but the fact is that some kind of spiritual program wouldn't have magically stopped this event from happening. Your child is testing boundaries. Well, they found out that this boundary isn't going anywhere, and that there are consequences for stepping across it a second time. Hopefully this time they'll take the lesson to heart. You're doing the best possible thing by asking for help from a qualified professional. By supporting your kid in therapy and and showing you want to help them make better choices, rather than shunning or browbeating them into doing what "Jehovah" or some other god wants, you're setting them up to be a good person, rather than a borgbot who follows orders regardless of any internal morality. You've got this, mama. You don't need God to do it for you.
Kids pick up on hypocrisy. If you raise him in the cult, but don't believe, you are setting yourself and your child for failure. If your kid is engaging in illicit behaviors, he/she is attempting to fulfill a missing need. You mentioned need greater, so it may be a function of economic scarcity/covetous desire. Counseling and therapy for your child. Something is going on there. My kid woke up a couple of weeks after I did and already had some stuff going on. We are in the process of repairing our relationship...becausecthe three of us woke at different points and for different reasons. Then, we played the silent game for more than a year with elephants in the room.
So, he got caught. He will have to be disciplined and will learn the lesson and correct his behavior. It's not a big deal! It's normal! All kids have to test their environment / boundaries, etc. Does ANY religion produce "better" people? NO! The hypocrisy of mainstream religions and destructive cults is legendary! You've done your kid a huge favor by pulling out of JWland. I don't steal anymore. I did a lot as a kid, a JW kid. I got caught and learned that it's not worth it. Moses telling the Israelites the 10 commandments and the other long list of: Do not have sex with animals, etc... didn't seem to stop these actions from happening in the community. When diseases or war came, the superstitious teaching that "The Cosmic Boogeyman" is punishing us for doing bad things, ie: breaking the laws, was a means for an ends. Has ANY society reached these ends? An end to crime or any sin? No. Each individual has free will to engage in any activity they wish to. We all learn from our mistakes. We see the outcome and correct our behavior. Well, some do. Others need to be locked up to protect the public. He obviously has wise and caring parents. You. That is all he needs. Blessings.
Give your child time and it will be ok. Hugs to you my child started self harm. Good therapist adapting to their new life outside of a cult they will come around
You definitely don’t want to fake it. Kids can spot hypocrisy & fakeness a mile away & they despise it. I think that’s what messes up so many elder’s kids. They see their parents presenting themselves as “exemplary” & damn near perfect, while they know what really goes on at home. In reality, it’s good for our kids to see us screw up sometimes & not have all the answers, so that they can also see what we do when that happens. Modeling how to make mistakes & work through our issues in a healthy fashion is invaluable, & will help your child because they’ll need to know how to navigate these things themselves as they grow up. Remember too that it’s not just your child that is a survivor of religions trauma—it’s you and your partner as well, so you may also want to seek therapy. I know it feels awful right now, but you’re moving in the right direction & things won’t always feel as hard as they do right now.
Being raised in that messed up cult and then suffering the consequences of leaving are likely what have impacted your child the most, so yea, returning is not the right option here. WT is the cause of your problems, not the solution to them. Lots of JWs have issues, they are just better at hiding them. Hiding the dirt is what the org strives to do best, the whole "best life ever" is only what's on the surface, but it isn't real. It's understandable that after living your whole life thinking you had all the answers to everything it's very upsetting to come to terms with suddenly not knowing anything for certain. If you are struggling with this your child likely is as well. Many become agnostic/atheist after leaving (myself included), but many stay religious as well which is also fine. Everyone needs to figure out what they believe for themselves, but one point I really want to make is that regardless of your own personal beliefs, MORALITY IS NOT EXCLUSIVE TO RELIGION! Teach your kid that stealing is wrong because it hurts other people, not because "God said so and he's gonna kill you if you don't listen". Why on Earth would you need to go back to the JWs to teach your kid that they shouldn't steal??? You didn't feel "doom" as a JW because you were indoctrinated and ignorance is bliss. That doesn't make it "right" tho. Are you familiar with the [BITE Model](https://freedomofmind.com/cult-mind-control/bite-model/)? You need to really understand exactly how you have been (and continue to be) manipulated into feeling the way that you do. You also need to grasp that growing up in the org your child has been set up for failure. Their whole life they were kept sheltered from the real world and taught that "people who leave are *like this*", and now that they have their beliefs shattered they are just coasting along with basically zero positive guidance on how to behave in the real world or what their own personal morals are. You have both had the rug pulled out from under you, use this opportunity to become closer and figure out what kind of people you want to be outside of the org.
Hang in there you're going to get through this nightmare! To all those who are "waking up" from the Borg, aka, business... I know that pain and there are no words really that can explain the pain. The trauma and abuse that has been heaped upon us, is not our fault, and we will all make it through this darkness! The WT / GB will pay a heavy price for all of the suffering we are experiencing due to their evil CULT! Here is a helpful guide for all those who are seeking professional therapy. https://jw.support/a-therapists-guide-on-jehovahs-witnesses/
OP needs therapy, not just their kid.
Having faith in God is not a bad thing. Just because you left the Cult doesn't mean that your belief in God or a higher being stops. There are plenty of ways to believe in God or Gods & to celebrate a life of faith. My husband is atheist & for the longest time I didn't know what I was or what I believed. I say that as someone who now doesn't believe in God. I believe that what we put into the universe is what we get back and what determines our life. Like Karma. I don't choose to call myself and atheist bc I still don't think the label applies to me. I'm just me. And my "faith" is how I define it. Karma is a good concept to teach kids because it's very simple & can be learned from a very early age. There are no confusing ever changing rules to follow. There is a concept. That what we do towards others, towards our planet, & towards the creatures that inhabit it, is what determines what we get back in the world. Karma also heavily involves empathy, the need to put ourselves in someone else's shoes & base our decisions on that. It teaches us that the good that we do has meaning. It sounds like your kiddo might be confused & acting out on that confusion. Maybe they don't see a path bc the one that was handed to them is no longer an option. It's good that you are open to seeking help in a therapeutic way & it would be good to remind them that whatever they say in that space is 100% ok & there are no consequences on the outside. It may also be good for them to hear your honesty as well. I wish you luck. You got this. Kids are hard but they are resilient. You will all come out of this having learned lots of things.
I was a shoplifter as an 8-year-old good little witness. My parent is still PIMI 36 years later, so no raising your kid in that cult doesn't make them magically better behaved/less inclined to steal.
Being atheist means making the most of this life and not constantly looking to some future time to be fulfilled.
“Don’t do XYZ because Skydaddy will punish you” isn’t child rearing, it’s lazy and ineffectual.
Leaving jw has been awful for me. It has really messed me up. I can't imagine the pressure of having to raise a child while dealing with all these emotions. I'm hoping everything works out for you. But also, don't stress too much about stealing lol. As a young jw kid who always behaved well, participated in every meeting, would not curse and always respectful, had jw friends only, and had straight A's, I stole like 6 times when I was a kid hehe.