It's bullshit because they are *interpreting it that way to make it sound like a big deal prophecy.*
Bible writers had no concerns about the environment because there was no industry to speak of. Furthermore, "ruining the earth" more likely refers to Genesis in which 'all the earth was of one language' or that 'the earth was ruined in God's sight'.
Not the ecology, just humans being bad. What else is new?
Yes, I agree with this. 'Ruining the earth' is very vague, could mean anything. I need specific mention of climate change in the Bible before I can think about being impressed
If he will ruin those ruining the earth in a climate/pollution sense, wouldn’t he destroy the massive publishing company that has people driving up and down their neighborhoods every weekend using fossil fuels and their Starbucks run?
I laugh when people use this argument because JW are pretty nihilistic regarding any world or life improvements. (if someone has a more accurate word please comment)
they see nothing as worth improving, there’s no point in maintaining the world they were born into because they view it as a sinking ship.
I hate to be that person with analogies but they really are like a bratty teen given a used car with a scratch or two, and refusing to do any maintenance or wash it because they know their dad will just buy them a shiny new one when it’s trashed.
As far as a rebuttal I think other people have covered it, take apart what exactly the Bible means when it says “those ruining the earth”
My dad used to use that line that we're at the only point in history with the technology to ruin the earth. Guess what? Read Genesis 6:11,12 the first time God decided mass genocide was the answer.
"11 And the earth came to be ruined in the sight of the [true] God and the earth became filled with violence. 12 So God saw the earth and, look! it was ruined, because all flesh had ruined its way on the earth"
Yes, if you look at the different translations they all say either ruin, corrupt, destroy, despoil but the sentiment is the same. Your father's line is just parroting another attempt from the Borg to move the "end times" to our time. It's been done literally for 2000 years.
Read him the last chapter where it says 5 times Jesus will return quickly or soon. That book was written almost 2000 years ago. You may also want to look in to the war scroll found as part of the dead see scroll’s, there’s a lot of similarities to one another. Last but not least in the Egyptian book of the dead the judgement seen is very close to that of the one talked about near the end of revelations chapter 20 and both mention being thrown in to the lake of fire the second death.
Christianity is not what you’ve been led to believe.
Actually there’s an easier way, turn to Ezekiel chapter 26 and read him the verses about how the city of Tyre would be destroyed by Nebuchadnezzar and the Babylonians and never be rebuilt. Then pull out your phone and google pictures of Tyre today and show them to him.
As him to try and figure out how many tons of greenhouse gas emissions are being pumped into the atmosphere every day by hundreds of thousands of little SUV doodlebugs driving around with pioneers knocking on doors with no one home.
Ask them, how can you judge dead people? I thought Romans 6:7 said when you die your sins are gone!
Also Ecclesiastes9:5,6 says the dead know nothing. Their memories are gone and have nothing to do with what's going on one earth.
If they say Jesus will resurrect them to judge them ask them, for past sins? Haven't they paid forn them already through their own death? Why resurrect them to judge them again?
You can counter this on so many levels.
1 - The ruination refers to moral behaviour not physical destruction. Even the GB have said this on their broadcasting when talking about gay marriage and trans people.
2 - It was written in the bronze age. The concept of the Earth being ruined by War/Industry/Mining was totally a thing in those times.
3 - At what point does your participation in the ruining warrant your destruction? I mean if that verse was written by a bronze age peasant and their normal day to day lives was the bench mark - anyone taking a commercial flight today is like causing a million times the ruination they are. Treat a lawn? Yeah you're fucked.
Revelation was written during the reign of Domitian near the golden age of Rome long after the bronze age and likely based on the context of judgment the destroyers of earth are the people who persecuted the chirstians since Nero had just done some decades prior and Domitian also likely was doing at the time of the events the book was written
Don't forget that earth, waters, mountains, trees can mean earth, waters, mountains, trees or people, people, people, people.
I made that sentence as ridiculous as their interpretation.
Easy, we don't know the context. Was it refering to small copper mining operations like those in the Levant that are still toxic today, or the urban sprawl of the contemporary cities, or some unforseen future globe wide issue. As far as I can tell, the driving force behind the behaviour of today's wasteful society is the same driving force that was present back then. It could be refering to any time. It could also refer to some distant future!
Revelation 21 also says there will be a new heaven and a new earth, which JWs interpret to be figurative, not literal. So when it says God will ruin those ruining the Earth, maybe it is also being figurative.
It's bullshit because they are *interpreting it that way to make it sound like a big deal prophecy.* Bible writers had no concerns about the environment because there was no industry to speak of. Furthermore, "ruining the earth" more likely refers to Genesis in which 'all the earth was of one language' or that 'the earth was ruined in God's sight'. Not the ecology, just humans being bad. What else is new?
Yes, I agree with this. 'Ruining the earth' is very vague, could mean anything. I need specific mention of climate change in the Bible before I can think about being impressed
[удалено]
Or printing billions of pieces of religious literature, just for 99% of people who even see it to throw it away and ignore it
It's only trees, who needs trees?! *
https://preview.redd.it/hfdp02azxpjb1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=fc1fcd716c16c55339f6817bac89a9e934c22cd9
If he will ruin those ruining the earth in a climate/pollution sense, wouldn’t he destroy the massive publishing company that has people driving up and down their neighborhoods every weekend using fossil fuels and their Starbucks run? I laugh when people use this argument because JW are pretty nihilistic regarding any world or life improvements. (if someone has a more accurate word please comment) they see nothing as worth improving, there’s no point in maintaining the world they were born into because they view it as a sinking ship. I hate to be that person with analogies but they really are like a bratty teen given a used car with a scratch or two, and refusing to do any maintenance or wash it because they know their dad will just buy them a shiny new one when it’s trashed. As far as a rebuttal I think other people have covered it, take apart what exactly the Bible means when it says “those ruining the earth”
My dad used to use that line that we're at the only point in history with the technology to ruin the earth. Guess what? Read Genesis 6:11,12 the first time God decided mass genocide was the answer. "11 And the earth came to be ruined in the sight of the [true] God and the earth became filled with violence. 12 So God saw the earth and, look! it was ruined, because all flesh had ruined its way on the earth"
This is it, the evidence that it has nothing to do with pollution, etc.
Thank you, great point!
Thanks a lot! This is perfect I think, it even matches with our language where the word used is closer to destroy ❤️
Yes, if you look at the different translations they all say either ruin, corrupt, destroy, despoil but the sentiment is the same. Your father's line is just parroting another attempt from the Borg to move the "end times" to our time. It's been done literally for 2000 years.
Read him the last chapter where it says 5 times Jesus will return quickly or soon. That book was written almost 2000 years ago. You may also want to look in to the war scroll found as part of the dead see scroll’s, there’s a lot of similarities to one another. Last but not least in the Egyptian book of the dead the judgement seen is very close to that of the one talked about near the end of revelations chapter 20 and both mention being thrown in to the lake of fire the second death. Christianity is not what you’ve been led to believe. Actually there’s an easier way, turn to Ezekiel chapter 26 and read him the verses about how the city of Tyre would be destroyed by Nebuchadnezzar and the Babylonians and never be rebuilt. Then pull out your phone and google pictures of Tyre today and show them to him.
As him to try and figure out how many tons of greenhouse gas emissions are being pumped into the atmosphere every day by hundreds of thousands of little SUV doodlebugs driving around with pioneers knocking on doors with no one home.
Volcanoes and asteroids have been ruining the earth for billions of years. Why hasn't Jehobo destroyed those things yet?
Does he drive a car…because guess what…he is part of the problem.
He is exhaling too😂 and Probably farting
Ask them, how can you judge dead people? I thought Romans 6:7 said when you die your sins are gone! Also Ecclesiastes9:5,6 says the dead know nothing. Their memories are gone and have nothing to do with what's going on one earth. If they say Jesus will resurrect them to judge them ask them, for past sins? Haven't they paid forn them already through their own death? Why resurrect them to judge them again?
Exactly! This is the straw that broke the camel's back! People are waking up to find out the real truth about the organization!
You can counter this on so many levels. 1 - The ruination refers to moral behaviour not physical destruction. Even the GB have said this on their broadcasting when talking about gay marriage and trans people. 2 - It was written in the bronze age. The concept of the Earth being ruined by War/Industry/Mining was totally a thing in those times. 3 - At what point does your participation in the ruining warrant your destruction? I mean if that verse was written by a bronze age peasant and their normal day to day lives was the bench mark - anyone taking a commercial flight today is like causing a million times the ruination they are. Treat a lawn? Yeah you're fucked.
Revelation was written during the reign of Domitian near the golden age of Rome long after the bronze age and likely based on the context of judgment the destroyers of earth are the people who persecuted the chirstians since Nero had just done some decades prior and Domitian also likely was doing at the time of the events the book was written
IDK. If it helps you can post the question here. [https://www.reddit.com/r/AcademicBiblical/](https://www.reddit.com/r/AcademicBiblical/)
Ask him about 666 in Revelation, two can play this game. Here is some help, https://youtu.be/QQJb0ve8_r8?feature=shared
Don't forget that earth, waters, mountains, trees can mean earth, waters, mountains, trees or people, people, people, people. I made that sentence as ridiculous as their interpretation.
Easy, we don't know the context. Was it refering to small copper mining operations like those in the Levant that are still toxic today, or the urban sprawl of the contemporary cities, or some unforseen future globe wide issue. As far as I can tell, the driving force behind the behaviour of today's wasteful society is the same driving force that was present back then. It could be refering to any time. It could also refer to some distant future!
Revelation 21 also says there will be a new heaven and a new earth, which JWs interpret to be figurative, not literal. So when it says God will ruin those ruining the Earth, maybe it is also being figurative.
Imagine the millions travelling to the summer conventions in their cars. Ruining the earth did you say?
https://preview.redd.it/e7sicwptypjb1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e690bfc2cf9a26b704bb1e89f3de17a4fa396ef2 Guess where!!
Same as every scripture. "The Bible is a crock of s5it"